#159 - When Your Training Isn’t Showing Results in Real Life

You nail a training session. Your dog is locked in, responding beautifully, and you feel that rare rush of “we’ve got this.” Then real life shows up and your dog looks at you like you’ve never met. Sound familiar? Here’s the thing: that moment is not a failure. It’s not evidence that you’re doing it wrong or that your dog is broken. It’s just really good information.

In this episode, Allie and Emily unpack why training that looks solid in sessions doesn’t always transfer to real-world contexts. That gap is completely normal, even expected, and still incredibly frustrating. They talk about “Antecedent Pictures,” explain why dogs learn in sensory maps rather than abstract rules, and walk through what it actually looks like to troubleshoot when things fall apart in context. For behavior professionals navigating imposter syndrome when a client says “it didn’t work,” this episode offers both the framework and the permission to shift out of self-blame and into curious, compassionate problem-solving.

TLDL (too long, didn’t listen): 3 Key Takeaways 

1️⃣  Dogs learn in sensory maps, not abstract rules — The Antecedent Picture explains why behavior that’s solid in one context can fall apart in another

2️⃣  Generalization must be taught, not assumed — Transfer across contexts is a learnable skill, and practicing it in more places makes it easier, not harder

3️⃣  “It didn’t work” is data, not a verdict — For pet parents and pros alike, real-world feedback is an invitation to troubleshoot, not evidence of failure

For the full episode show notes, including the resources mentioned in this episode, go here.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Allie: a lot of times when I'm hearing talk about the sedum picture, it's so focused on the external environment and doesn't pay attention to the internal environment and how important that is to the antecedent picture.

And I think a lot of times when people. Get frustrated that of like, my dog could do this in the exact same scenario yesterday and they can't do it today. It's because the internal picture has changed and the external picture has not changed. And, and I think especially when it comes to that reinforcement access.

And how valuable is a particular reinforcer at that particular time? Uh, it's really easy to. Make assumptions that something is more valuable than it truly is, 

 Welcome to Enrichment for the Real World, the podcast devoted to improving the quality of life of pets and their people through enrichment. We are your hosts, Allie Bender...

[00:01:07] Emily: ...and I'm Emily Strong...

[00:01:09] Allie: ...and we are here to challenge and expand your view of what enrichment is, what enrichment can be and what enrichment can do for you and the animals in your lives. Let's get started.

 Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Enrichment for the Real World, and I want to thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:01:30] Emily: You've got your training plan you're in the session and you're just getting beautiful repetitions. You and your dog are like in sync. Y'all are nailing it.

It's so good. You get home and you're like, huh, my dog's got this. Let me show you. And then you ask your dog to do the thing and they act like you've never asked them ever to do this ever in their life. And they're looking at you like, what is that? What, what is even, what are you doing with your hands or your voice or whatever. Congratulations. You're a normal human with a normal dog who does normal learning things, and also your feelings are valid. This isn't a failure. It's just really good information.

[00:02:13] Allie: we talked a little bit About this earlier this month, you know, we did that q and a on resource guarding, and this exact moment comes up constantly, especially with resource guarding when things look solid in practice and then just fall apart in real life.

[00:02:29] Emily: Or even look solid in. Some contexts in real life and then just fall apart in other contexts for no apparent reason. Why is the bedroom impossible? But the living room is easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[00:02:42] Allie: I always felt bad, like when I did in-person consultations and my clients wanted to like show off all the things that their dog could do and they would try to show me and the dog's like, I can't do that in this scenario. And I like, I could see how. Disheartened the client was, and I'd be like, no, it's, I promise.

It's okay. And it's normal. And it's I believe you that your dog can do this when I'm not here. I promise. I believe you.

[00:03:11] Emily: And here's the thing, Kay lawrence, talks about it as Q clouds, which I think is such a great way to think about it, that we are, we are. We might be giving one single cue to ask for the behavior, but what we should develop an awareness of is that there are lots of other cues in the environment that your dog is learning whether or not you intend them to.

So the dog isn't just learning when. Human says, sit. I put my butt on the ground and get a treat. The the dog is learning when we are in this space, in this class, and other people and dogs are here, and we've been practicing other things, and human stands directly in front of me and human says, sit. And sometimes human's body language changes before they say, sit to let me know that they're about to ask me to do a thing. And then the human says, sit, then I sit and get a treat. And so when you take them out of that context, the dog's I'm not getting all the cues. We're not in that space. Other dogs aren't here. There's so many other aspects of the broader cue as a concept of all of the environmental context that that tells our dog what to expect. And that's the thing about Sessions is that they are controlled. They're predictable. We ideally are, are, are teaching our dogs new skills, in spaces where they're able to focus. Where you've got somebody there who's giving you feedback on your timing and your mechanics, and maybe that unintentional body language shift that you're accidentally doing to let your dog know that you're about to ask them something and you don't realize you're doing it, but your trainer points it out to you. Those things don't have a specific client in mind talking about that. And, and the emotional stakes are lower when you're practicing it in that fun setting as opposed to when you're practicing in a place where you really need it or you're panicked or you wanna show off to your behavior consultant. that's a very, a whole different story, 

[00:05:14] Allie: I like the antecedent cloud. I call it an antecedent picture, or no, you call, called it a Q Cloud. Sorry.

[00:05:22] Emily: That's what Kate Lawrence calls it. A QCloud.

[00:05:25] Allie: Yeah, I, I call it an antecedent picture, and I stole that either from Kiki Yablon or Hannah Brannigan, or both, maybe Kiki on Hannah's podcast. 

[00:05:36] Emily: that sounds right.

[00:05:37] Allie: Those are, those are the two people in my brain that are associated with, with that concept.

[00:05:43] Emily: yeah. It's, it's really either one is a good descriptor, either QCloud or antecedent picture. I think both of those are a really good way of getting the message across that dogs learn in pictures, not in abstract rules. there the maps in their head of what to do, in what contexts. Aren't based on our ideas or our belief systems or the contingencies that are in our head. They are, they're kind of visually, they're, they're sensory maps, not necessarily all visual maps, but they're sensory map of like, when the conditions look like this, I do this thing and this consequence happens. And if you don't teach them that, that is true in other. Conditions or other contexts, they're not gonna know that automatically because they don't understand the, the abstract concept of I am being taught how to perform a behavior on cue. That's not how they're experiencing the situation. They're like, when the conditions look like this, I do this thing and I get this thing for doing that thing.

Right.

[00:06:52] Allie: And I think that it, my brain is just like thinking about resource guarding, apparently. So, so I'm gonna go back to that. But I, I think that's also one of the reasons why, you know, like i'm so glad that I, I don't see this recommendation as much anymore, but I know, I mean, even 10 years ago, you and I met more than 10 years ago. I don't like that fact. That's a long,

[00:07:14] Emily: be really rude and tell you that we met 12 years ago.

[00:07:18] Allie: I'm gonna be even ruder and tell you that come July. That will have been a third of my life.

[00:07:25] Emily: Yeah. That's very rude. That's hostile. You've known me

for a third of your life.

I've known you well, hold on. Oh yeah. I have known you 25% of my life. 

[00:07:35] Allie: Yeah.

Yeah.

[00:07:36] Emily: That's less hostile, but is, it is still a little rude.

[00:07:39] Allie: But still rude. Yeah. back when, back in the day when, you know, you and I first met that was the normal recommendation and I realized, I don't think I said what the recommendation was. I went on a tangent about how long we've met and just assumed everybody knew what I was talking about.

The recommendation that I used to hear all the time was for like a guarder, like just give them more stuff and they can't guard a hundred tennis balls and y'all, they can. I've seen kiddos who can guard a hundred tennis balls. It's not great. It's not fun.

[00:08:15] Emily: I am thinking of Kira, who would just put all of the rocks in a big pile in a rock pile and

then just guard the 

[00:08:21] Allie: Yes. Yeah. Like they're like, we're not done. We can move this stuff, obviously.

 Um, yeah. So, you know, like we, you and I heard that all the time 10 years ago, apparently more than 10 years ago, um, of like, we'll just add more stuff and that'll, that'll solve the guarding. And, thankfully we're not hearing that recommendation much anymore because it's.

It's not super effective and we do have a a episode coming up. It's already happened. I'm not entirely sure around this time that you are hearing this. Dear listener, there is an episode about. Why giving more doesn't fix resource guarding. So go there for the deeper dive. But I think part of it comes back to this antecedent picture of, you know, if, if you teach a skill of like, trade me a thing, and then you're like, and let me change the antecedent picture and give you a hundred things.

And they're like, what do I trade? And this is hard and I don't know what to do now.

[00:09:22] Emily: I think making the picture more complicated for them is not the same thing as teaching them that they can these same skills in lots of different pictures. I like to, to tell people, like get curious and like put on your observation skills. Put on your observer hat, your Sherlock Holmes hat. You know what? Sherlock Holmes hat is pretty sweet. So I'm very pro putting on the Sherlock Holmes hat. I think like you're gonna look really cool if you wear it. I, my being a middle aged, not at all cool person, maybe am not the arbiter of cool, but just go with me on this friends, put on your Sherlock Holmes hat figure out what all is going on in the QCloud slash antecedent picture. What, what is present when your dog can just nail it, right? What is happening in the environment? Which environment are you in? First of all, what's happening in the environment? is the emotional load for you and your dog? If either one of you are in a state of distress, it's gonna be harder to be in that thinking and learning zone and, and nail those skills and, and hit them outta the park, right? What are you doing? Might you perhaps be accidentally. Telling your dog that you're about to ask them something in some context and not doing that with your body in other contexts. So your dog is well, clearly you're not talking about me or talking to me. You didn't do the shoulder shuffle that you do usually when you want me to do something, so that's something to consider and I find like filming yourself can be really helpful for that kind of stuff because a lot of times you're not aware of what's happening before you ask the behavior, until you watch a video of yourself training and okay, so like sidebar, every time I watch myself training, what I see that I'm doing. What I feel that I'm doing in my body while I'm training are two different things. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're not in alignment, like I'm not saying that I never do what I think I'm doing, it's just that. How it feels in my body is different than how it looks. And so I find it helpful to, to do both, to feel it in my body and also see how it looks, because it never looks the way it feels to me when I'm training. So that's just something to consider. And also pay attention to reinforcement access. And I would even say like reinforcement value in the moment because if you practice. Training this skill in a low stakes context before dinner. When your dog's already a little bit hungry, that's gonna look very different than if you, your dog has just eaten, is full, and then a bunch of people walk into your house and so your dog is like jazzed, excited, which is still stress, even if it's not distressed. And then you're asking the dog, if you do this thing, I'll give you the snack. The dog is I just ate. Why would I want the snack when the new people in the house are way more exciting than your dumb snack? So you have to think about that too. It's like it's not just reinforcer force or. Access, but it's also reinforc our value of is your dog getting something that they find reinforcing? is that still true in this moment? And then you also have to think about what competing needs are happening. Does your dog feel secure? Is are you farther away from your dog than usual? So there's other things between you and your dog that might be distracting them. Does your dog have the ability to say, I've gotta actually step away for a moment to get water 'cause I'm thirsty, or I need a potty break? Are you listening to your dog as they're asking you for things? If you're like, sit and the dog is I'm about to pee my pants, so maybe don't ask me to bend my body right now, that's, that's something to pay attention to.

[00:13:14] Allie: I wanna go back to something that you said because I, you know, I do hear this topic being talked about of like, you have to look at the entire picture. And a lot of people talk about that in different ways. You know, one of the ways that I know you and I were taught for like generalization, for example, uh, with, with the, the three Ds, which we added two more, um, of distance, duration, distraction, different places, different people. Um, like that's essentially a way of talking about the antecedent picture.

You know, I, I hear so many. Similar things being talked about, but a lot of times when I'm hearing talk about the sedum picture, it's so focused on the external environment and doesn't pay attention to the internal environment. So I really just wanted to highlight what you were saying of the internal environment and how important that is to the antecedent picture.

And I think a lot of times when people. Get frustrated that of like, my dog could do this in the exact same scenario yesterday and they can't do it today. It's because the internal picture has changed and the external picture has not changed. And, and I think especially when it comes to that reinforcement access.

And how valuable is a particular reinforcer at that particular time? Uh, it's really easy to. Make assumptions that something is more valuable than it truly is, and I think of it with, with Oso, who y'all. He's 14, he's in his twilight years. He can just do whatever he wants to do within reason. Like he is still not allowed to steal food off of our plates, regardless of his attempts.

You know, he'll be like, oh, I'm, I'm in a sit. I'm lying down, but I'm like, kind of falling towards your plate. Laying down and like my tongue just happens to go out. And it's like, no, no, that's still not.

Allowed. But, we've gotten lax on so many things with him and, and partially because we can, it's, it's, he's a, he's a different dog now than he was even a few years ago.

But there have been several times in the last few months now that people are exciting again. At some point in time I had mentioned that he kind of had gotten like desensitized to people coming over and like didn't care about them anymore 'cause they had to come over every day while I was in the hospital.

He is back to being very excited about people coming over. And so I just think about like the moments where somebody's like sitting on the couch and he is sitting in their lap and I'm like, Hey, do you want the treat that you normally get because somebody is here and that is, you know how I get them, get him away from the person and they can settle in.

And he is just like looking at me. No, why would I want that?

 Do you see what's happening here? Mom, obviously I don't want your treat.

 And normally that treat is super high value, but like clearly it's not as good as squashing the, the people who come to my house with his body weight. So. Um, I think that's, that's something that I think about when I think about reinforcement access and, and the value in that moment of like, oh, he's made it so clear to me that what he is currently doing and the attention he is currently receiving is way better than the food that I can offer him.

[00:16:54] Emily: Yeah, we have something, a, a similar experience with copper because he is, almost 17 now. And so, and he gets quan shots once every two weeks and when, like maybe in the first week of post Adequan shot, he likes to sit It's comfortable for him to, it's a resting position for him and early on in his history and our history together, I had taught him sit to ask for food.

I don't really do that anymore, but at the time, that was what I knew to do and he will still offer that when he wants something in that first week. And then in the second week as the attic one is starting to wear off, he doesn't want to sit. It's not a resting position for him anymore. The thing about sitting. That was, is reinforcing in the first week post adequan injection is not reinforcing in the second week, and so he doesn't wanna sit in that second week. I don't, I've never, I haven't asked him for a sit in years, but he doesn't freely offer it and he won't use it as a signal to Miley that he's ready to relax. So in that second week, week post Adequan, he just kind of like flops down on his nest, like goes from standing to like woo, like timber

and just like flops. And so like for him that laying down is the reinforcing behavior, the behavior that brings that relaxing, resting reinforcement. and so I. I think like that is something to pay attention to.

If you ask your dog for something and sometimes, and you know they've got a known kind of pain issue or something, if it's being managed or if it's contextual, then pay attention to like. are, we may be having a pain flare up, so the consequence isn't reinforcing right now, but when they're not in pain, it would be reinforcing. I mean, and I think we already talked about this in the episode with Kathy Sado, but like if food isn't reinforcing to your dog, your dog may have some kind of GI something like nausea. So like they don't want it now 'cause they feel nauseated, but they want it later. Like when they don't feel nauseated, they love that food.

So. Yeah, we, we don't get to know what their internal states are, but we should be aware that internal states are happening so that we can do some trial and eval to figure out in this moment, is this reinforcing for you or is this not jiving with your body right now?

[00:19:26] Allie: Yeah, and I think one of the harder internal states to kind of suss out is. Is that feeling of security, like how, how safe am I in this moment? Um, and a lot of it, I mean, let's be real. We don't get to 100% know. We don't get to even like 60% know for something like that. But I think that's something that, especially when.

We're working with behavior issues we see so frequently where the behavior looks very different when an animal feels safe, or what we're assuming is that the animal feels safe versus when they don't feel safe. You know, like I, I was just having this conversation with one of my pet pro mentees of, um, uh, she was describing a, a experiment that the owner did.

Before she started working with that, with them and uh, and the experiment was essentially like, we think this dog has stranger danger, a rando a known rando, not like, just like. Someone off the street, but a rando to the dog took the dog from daycare, went to the, the store. The dog was fine. And I'm going to put that in air quotes, and I feel comfortable putting that in air quotes even without seeing or knowing almost anything else about the situation.

And then as soon as the dog came came onto the property and saw their, uh, it's humans. Then started being bluss and, and showing all the stranger danger and, and you know, I was telling our mentee almost every situation I've seen. Where that has been true. It's, I feel comfortable now that my backup is here.

You know, my, my humans are here, so now I'm gonna tell you off, I didn't feel comfortable telling you off previously. So, you know, we see it so frequently with things like stranger danger, with leash reactivity, uh, with guarding. We see that so a lot of times when we're like, oh, but it did work.

Um, it's because safety is in play. And I think the hard thing with behavior issues is sometimes it worked, quote unquote because they didn't feel safe, and when they do, it doesn't work or vice versa. I've seen it go both ways, which is hard.

[00:21:43] Emily: And it can be really emotionally difficult for people when we as behavior professionals tell them. We need to work on your dog's feeling of safety so that we can see what they actually care about. That does mean that it's going to look for a while, like their behavior is getting worse, but really their behavior is just more transparent.

Like we're just getting to see what they feel and like we can't address, we can't address it if we don't know. When and where they're feeling this way, like we don't understand the context, we are not gonna be as effective at actually helping them. But that does mean temporarily you're gonna see behavior that looks worse than what it looks like now.

And that is, that is justifiably difficult for people to hear and to go through to be like, oh, I thought we were. I thought it was, I thought it worked. I thought what I was doing worked, and now I'm hearing not only is it not working, but I have to let my dog get worse and their behavior's gonna be more embarrassing. And that, there are obviously things that we can do to support people and, and their pets through that. And not saying that you just have to let your dog have a meltdown but that it is a journey and that it can be a difficult journey. So. Being aware of that and, and adjusting accordingly is, is part of the process.

[00:23:05] Allie: A hundred percent. And I think this ties back into the conversation that we had last week where we were talking about feelings and skills and that emotional safety. Is really important and we also need those practice skills in real context. Like with there, there are multiple puzzle pieces we need to put together.

[00:23:21] Emily: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So instead of feeling like you need to blame someone, your dog yourself. Your behavior professional who's been helping you. It is, it's helpful to replace that blame with questions. So get curious and some of the questions that you can ask. This is by no means going to be a comprehensive list, but some of the things you can ask are like, what assumption did this plan make? What is this plan assuming about? This dog's capabilities or context or, or whatever, right? and what about this context is less supportive than the context in which my dog was able to nail it? So where is, where did the support disappear between the place where their dog, the dog could do it, and this place where the dog can't do it? Another question to ask would be, what skill wasn't actually fluent? Is there, did I assume that my dog has this all of the skills needed to successfully perform specific behavior in this context, are there other skills that we may be need to layer in? So that those skills support the My dog learning how to do this new skill in this new context. Which leads me to another question, which is. Am I asking my dog for too much in this context, or do I need to lower my criteria a little bit in this space and retrain the behavior in this second context or third context or whatever? And the more context that you teach. A skill in the faster the dog will learn the skill.

It'll be like, oh yeah, we've done this eight times before I got this. I know. Okay, got it. Same cue, same deal. Okay, cool. Get Got it. So it does get easier the more that you practice that. What, what is the fancy word is generalization. in dog training we call it proofing, but the more that you practice that. Proofing of those skills to generalize the behavior so that the dog knows how to do that skill in a bunch of different contexts, not just the original one. Oh, I, I lost that sentence was too long and I lost the end of it. I don't know where I was going with that. It happens sometimes, folks. It's fine.

Everything's fine. But my point is that the more you practice it, the easier it, it gets. what I was trying to say. I just took way too long to say it.

[00:25:47] Allie: To speak to the professionals in the room for just a moment. I think this topic brings a lot of self doubt. It breeds a lot of imposter syndrome feelings because it is really hard when a client. Does a thing, tries a thing and comes back and says it didn't work. And then you get this like immediate like feeling in your chest where you're like, oh no, I am a fraud.

And so. That is a normal thing that we have all felt, I'm sure. I don't know, maybe somebody out there hasn't felt it and like maybe good for them, but probably not. I feel like they have other problems in their life if they have not felt that. Um, but like we've all felt that, and also it's a, it's a good.

Cue for us as professionals to, again, ask those questions of, okay, you tried it, explain the situation in which you've tried it. And I would say nine times out of 10 when I've heard that from a client, and then I ask them like, okay, describe the scenario to me. They're talking about like. The equivalent of a collegiate level environment, and we're still in like kindergarten or elementary school with this dog, and it's like, oh, well, yeah, of course it was.

It was never going to work at this point in time there. And then I can explain to my client, yes, that's why we're going slow. That's why we're scaffolding, that's why we're doing all the things that we're doing because. I knew it wasn't going to work in that situation. I'm glad that you got to see that.

That is true. So that a lot of times they get even more on board with that, and so I just know that it's, it's okay. It's a thing. And then there is that one time outta 10 where I'm like, Ooh, I would've thought that would've worked in that scenario. Let's really troubleshoot and figure out what was going on there.

[00:27:45] Emily: Yeah. I think the thing this goes back to, this idea that if you're a professional, you'll things right a hundred percent of the time and not getting it right means that you are not qualified to do this job.

And it like getting out of that mindset and just like being able to, to be like, oh yeah, we're just, this is just an opportunity to investigate and figure out what's going on here. We just need to sleuth and troubleshoot. No big deal. It, it's not a reflection. Of me as a, as a competent professional, can just be a really big win for behavior professionals. I think part and parcel of that, really this is true for both behavior professionals and parents, but it's just learning how to challenge certainty culture because we are definitely raised in certainty culture, and we've definitely been. Conditions to believe that certainty equals competence or certainty equals, I don't know. The ultimate achievement is the ultimate goal of what we're trying to attain. And that's super not true. It is super damaging. learning how to challenge certainty, culture and, and be like, just because this protocol was sold to me as something that's gonna be a universal fix, doesn't mean that either.

That's true. And if I can't make this protocol work in every context, it's because I, I'm not a good and not good at my job. Or rejecting the protocol out of hat and saying, protocol is garbage because. It has been sold to me as something that should work in every situation. If we just look at it as like this protocol is a good utilization of basic foundational behavioral principles, I understand the underlying pre principles, which means I can recognize why this protocol is valuable in this context, and I'm gonna use it. because it's a good tool, then we're gonna see if it actually works for this animal or this client. We're gonna see if it flows for them. That is so liberating because then if, if anything other than perfection happens, not a critique of you as a behavior professional or you as a pet parent.

It's just good information that we need to sleuth and troubleshoot. And I think that's like the, the thing about how we put so much emphasis on the real world, it's in our book title, it's in the podcast title, is because the real world is far from being a certain place and it helps us to engage with reality and, and letting reality show us where the cracks in the plan are so that we can be more compassionate, effective. And adaptable behavior professionals and pet parents, and we can just roll with the punches as they come because the punches will come. They are guaranteed. There's not much in life that's guaranteed more than like death, taxes and punches,

[00:30:40] Allie: What a sad list.

 Death, taxes and punches.

[00:30:44] Emily: It is, it's, it's sad and nihilistic, but also like really hopeful because it's okay, cool. If I know that punches are just a part of life, they're not a sign that I'm a failure, that just makes it much easier. 

[00:30:56] Allie: That is true. I, I, I can get behind that line of thinking,

 And to just pull out. Another thing that you said, you're saying all sorts of good things today. It's almost like you'd say good stuff about this that you've been talking about for a long time.

[00:31:14] Emily: Thanks for the validation.

[00:31:16] Allie: You're welcome. I did not say that well at all. And there's a reason why you do more episodes than I do.

But piggybacking on that that feeling of

liberating liberality, that's what I wanna say. I want it to be an adverb, and I really don't think.

[00:31:32] Emily: I'm here for that. That playing with language is my favorite thing on earth. So I am here for, let's just make liberating liberality

[00:31:41] Allie: Liberality. It honestly sounds like a, like a pharmaceutical liberality like that you would see like a really hokey commercial for.

[00:31:51] Emily: And, and like liberating Liberality would definitely be a pharmaceutical commercial where like the people are running around in like a sunshiny field and they like throw off their jacket and they're just free in their t-shirts with big smiles on their faces. We missed our calling.

We should be in pharmaceutical advertising 'cause clearly, clearly we are good at that.

[00:32:13] Allie: Yeah, I mean, I guess there's still time, 

[00:32:15] Emily: there's always time to switch and become pharmaceutical advertisers.

[00:32:21] Allie: Very sp, very niche field right there.

 Any Les? So piggybacking off of that feeling of liberality, I can't even say what the straight face I, I find that. Being able to figure out how to use training protocols in context and break them down into their core components so that you know why they work and when they work and when they're not going to work is so liberating.

And this is more for professionals. But I know some hobbyist pet parents out there where this is very true as well. I've definitely had that conversation with clients who are hobbyist pet parents, where I'm like, alright, let's get into like the science, like let's nerd out about this. But I'm talking more about our professionals.

You know, we see that so much in Pet Pro where, uh, to the point where Ellen does like a, like a regular office hour. On it of just like breaking down different behaviors and protocols and, and getting into the nitty gritty. And I've heard so frequently from folks of how liberating it is of like, oh, I can see why that didn't work in this situation.

And so instead of spiraling about it. They're like, oh, yeah, I just go into troubleshooting mode because, uh, yeah, obviously it wasn't going to work in that situation. And it's, it's just so wonderful to see.

[00:33:44] Emily: Yeah, it really is. I love it. More than anything,

Had a very similar or related, I should say, conversation in my group. Office hours today where one somebody in PET Pro asked about some like, issues they've been having with teaching cooperative care to some clients, it was basically what you just said.

We just looked at the underlying behavioral principles and broke them all down and, and we're like, okay, so if this is how this principle works. Where is that not happening in practice? Like where is, where's the, where are the principals breaking down in practice? she said that is, it's so helpful.

I, I see the moving parts now and, and I, and I know how to this with my clients. So that's a, a huge And it is liberating

[00:34:31] Allie: Yeah. And for our listener, oh, go ahead.

[00:34:34] Emily: Oh, I, no, I was just gonna be silly. Go ahead. Be serious.

[00:34:38] Allie: And for you, our listeners, we are going to unpack this topic in next week's episode about why protocols aren't guarantees and why the plan should be the first thing you examine when things break down. So y'all are gonna get a little taste of that next week too.

[00:34:52] Emily: Just be prepared because I'm gonna be a little bit spicy and I might even be a little bit salty, so I might be making some salsa next week. We'll see. We'll see what happens.

[00:35:04] Allie: My mind went to a spicy margarita with a salt rim and I don't drink, and so I don't know why my brain went there, but that was, that's where it went.

[00:35:13] Emily: Yeah. I also do not. Drink liquor, so I cannot have a spicy margarita with a salted rim, I hear you. That could also work for somebody who enjoys cocktails. They could choose to make a spicy margarita with a salted rim instead of salsa. Everybody has agency in how they show up with their spice and their salt. 

[00:35:35] Allie: I am,

I feel like you're needlessly placating me in my terrible analogy that didn't need to be said.

[00:35:43] Emily: No, I think he and I are just both so tired that we are just like neuros spicy, tr tripping, not tripping. What's the word? Skipping. Skipping is the word. Just skipping down these like tangent trails and just encouraging each other. Like we, nobody's here to reign us in. We do not have an Ellen to tell us to get our asses back on the trail.

We're just both like enabling each other, let's skip down this tangent together. It's fine.

So in summary, the real world is not a test that you pass or fail. The feedback that you get is just good information. It's not a signal that you are a terrible pet parent or a terrible behavior professional. It's just information. And the way to think about that information is what do we need to shift about our approach in order to get different outcomes? Where does our current planning assume transfer or assume that transfer is to happen of teaching the animal how to transfer these skills to this new context?

[00:36:57] Allie: So this month on the podcast is all about thinking, not just doing so if you're craving protocols that don't promise perfection, but actually help you adapt when things get messy, make sure you stay with us this month.

 I hope you enjoy today's episode and if there's someone in your life who also needs to hear this, be sure to text it to them right now. If you're a pet parent looking for more tips on enrichment, behavior modification, and finding harmony with your pet, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pet Harmony training. If you're a behavior or training professional dedicated to enrichment for yourself, your clients, and their pets, check us out on TikTok and Instagram at Pet Harmony Pro.

As always, links to everything we discussed in this episode are in the show notes. Thank you to Ellen Yoakum for editing this episode and making us sound good. Our intro music is from Penguin Music on Pixa Bay. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. That helps more pet lovers and professionals find us so they can bring enrichment into their world too.

Thank you for listening, and here's to harmony. 

Oh, you're already there.

[00:38:04] Emily: I'm already there.

[00:38:06] Allie: Oh. Oh.

You just did like a

[00:38:09] Emily: like those creatures from the dark crystal. Oh,

[00:38:12] Allie: Oh. Oh, I see. 'cause you started at the intro. That's a, that's a, that's a good place to start.

[00:38:19] Emily: it is. It is. Intros are, are, are typically a good place to start. Generally. That is where one wants to start.

[00:38:26] Allie: Okay. Maybe I could have been more ready than I said I would.

I don't, did you, did we do a q and a on resource guarding? Did

[00:38:33] Emily: We, we haven't recorded it yet,

[00:38:35] Allie: Oh,

[00:38:36] Emily: but I think we're recording it next week. Maybe.

[00:38:39] Allie: oh, that's all I can say.

[00:38:42] Emily: You are channeling your inner SC today.

[00:38:45] Allie: Oh yeah, we are recording it next week on a new moon. No less.

[00:38:49] Emily: This is where we're at right now. For everybody who thinks that we just have it all together and we're like super, super on top of everything. we are not in fact all put together. We are not in fact on top of anything.