Episode 143 | The Leadership Shift That Drives Real Growth with Wally Adamchik

In this episode of The Mobilization Mindset, Scott Peper and Drew Aldridge sit down with Wally Adamchik to break down the leadership shift required to move from operator to true business owner.

As companies grow, the challenges change. This conversation unpacks the mindset, systems, and identity shifts required to scale without becoming the bottleneck.

They discuss:
 • The shift from doing the work to building systems that scale
 • How to develop leaders and trust them with real decisions
 • Why most processes fail—and how to fix them
 • How imposter syndrome can either hold you back or push you forward
 • Why growth requires getting uncomfortable and changing how you lead

If you’re trying to grow your business but feel stuck in the day-to-day, this episode will challenge how you think about leadership, ownership, and what it actually takes to scale.

Learn more: https://mobilizationfunding.com/

Subscribe to the Mobilization Minute newsletter:
https://mobilizationfunding.com/newsletter-subscriptions/

Wally's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wallyadamchik/

Find True North Fieldbook here

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

One of the reasons people don't grow and succeed is there's a little voice inside them that says you don't deserve this. We're not doing therapy here, but that voice exists in a lot of people. Yeah. And it could be there for any number of reasons. Um, but getting over that is not necessarily for your failure, it's for your success.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Yeah, it's just you're not enough either. You don't you don't have it.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Right. Do I belong at this table?

SPEAKER_04 0:22

And if I don't have it, I can't lose it.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Uh yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Welcome everybody to the next episode of the Mobilization Mindset. My name is Scott Pieper, CEO and founder of Mobilization Funding. And today we're going to be talking about leadership. We're going to be talking about being a business owner, an entrepreneur, entrepreneur, the things that help you get to the growth you're looking for, business-wise, but also personal. And whether you are on the actual project itself at any level or in the executive office, how you can lead, how you help your team lead their team, we are going to discuss today, and you're going to catch a lot of great insights from myself and Drew and our esteemed guest, Wally Adamchek. Welcome, Wally. Stoked to be here. So what do you think, what do you think is going to delineate a company who gets the right talent, hires the right talent, leads the talent, executes the talent? Like what kind of owner, developer, leader mindset you need to have? And think about it, like our clients or the people that are watching this show to are typically your few million to up to 80 million. And the bigger they get, you may be talking directly to a specific owner, or you may be talking to a leader under that owner. But what type of mentality do businesses that you see find success, where is it from that owner down through the leadership? What type of mentality do they have and how they engage talent, cultivate their talent, project level execution, pulling that information back and forth into the field? Like what do you see is best the best doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

God, I wish I could quote to a LinkedIn post I did two days ago. But what I was talking about, and it just kind of hit me. I've been at some big conventions the last couple weeks. And there are the and I hate to be so dramatic, but there's seismic shifts. Like totally different from where we've been. And this gets to mentality, right? Because you have to understand the context of the game you're playing. And in the first of all, the technology and AI, I mean, you you can't ignore it. But so you how do how do you integrate and how do you because you hear a lot of folks say, well, that's not for me, or you know, I don't need that stuff. But ultimately, what you just got to was a question about systemization, right? And automating good processes, which means you have to have processes, they have to be good, all of those things. So a mentality that says it's more than the the yellow legal tab. Yeah. Right. And you can run a couple million bucks off of a road yellow, but you can't run 20, 30, 80, et cetera. So it's I it's recognizing that I am the bottleneck. And how do I then not become the battle bottleneck and one as the systems piece, right? Which gets into a whole bunch of things you were talking about of ordering materials, uh job costing, those kinds of things. In other words, it moves from a hobby to a business. Like, oh, I love construction. That's great. Put a lathe in your garage. Yeah, that's a hobby. You're talking about creating a business, not a practice, you know, not a uh, you know, but a real thriving enterprise. So there's that system side. Then you have the people side, right? Where we can get into what is next gen. We've talked about that a lot, the cultural so that you do you have a profit focus or a people focus? If you go back gen two gens, it was profit focus. Shut up and dig. Well, the the extreme here is just the people focus and you don't make any money. It's both. Very few people have that skill set to wear that hat, you know, profit hat, people hat, profit and people hat. But that's the mentality it takes. And I think ultimately it's about getting out of your own way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

Right, right. Yeah, well, uh you said you started processes first. Yeah. And I think that was interesting. And I can picture a lot of our owners and a lot of our uh business owners out there kind of sitting down at their desk and saying, okay, I need to create a process for this. I'm gonna write it down in detail with grass on a piece of paper, taking that, and I've I've even been victim to that as well. Taking that and then implementing it. Talk about the mentality that's required to actually do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So uh I saw this done somewhere and it was in a safety setting, but it was a c a safety training. And it was um you bring a bunch bunch of guys up or or uh you make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

unknown 5:07

Right?

SPEAKER_02 5:08

So you got all so somebody says, okay, well, you get some bread, and the guy's got a baguette and a loaf of white and whatever. Uh, and then you get jelly and you got petroleum jelly, right? Then you see where this goes, right? Well, spread the jelly. No, no, grape jelly. Okay, oh, I got grape jelly too. Spread that. Well, what do I spread it with? And it is dirty. It is dirty, right? But think about that. I say make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and everybody goes, I know how to do that, right? Because there's a process that you do. The problem is when you explain the process to me that you know really well, you skip steps.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

Making so many assumptions. Yeah. Uh on knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

It's like telling a kid to start a car. Like we get in and we're moving before and but and we didn't even think about putting our seatbelt on, right? So if you're gonna create processes, you engage the people who do the process. And then, you know, it's the old Napoleon's corporal thing, like make it understandable and usable at the at the user level, right? Uh, which says, hey, here's a I I would interview the people who are doing the work, right? But we're in a small business, like, oh, I already know how they're doing the work. Okay, just go watch them for a day with your with your process. Yeah. Whether this is a submittal or or uh how to install flashing, whatever it is, and go, oh my God, I forgot that. I forgot that. I forgot that. Because we skip steps. We forgot so much of those, you know, those there's that's what I think.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

The peanut butter and jelly feels so good.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Oh, it's so good. Yeah. You know, it's funny because the as I'm listening to you talk about it, if you're, you know, and I was guilty of this myself, but as a business owner, if you're sitting there thinking, like, man, why can't they just do it? Like, why couldn't they just get it done like I did, you know, or I would do it's that's what you're talking about. It's like they don't know what the standard is, so they don't know what do it is, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

The other part of that though is we were all knuckleheads once, right? We forgot how the stupid stuff we did. And we did stupid stuff, whatever our environment was. And I know there were people looking at me going, you, you know, whatever. And um we forget how hard a Barney is, and telling isn't training, right? You know, it's like, well, I told him, okay, um his his his his his wife's in the hospital because she's gonna give birth. Do you think he remembered that? You know, uh, I I told him twice, yeah, okay, but it's tax time, right? And oh, I I told him three times, yeah, okay, he might have heard this much of it. You know, retention takes time. And for the the time-strapped business owner, I don't have time to explain it. Yeah, you don't have time not to explain it because otherwise you're in this repetitive cycle of groundhog day, whatever, where it's it's it it never changes. And then, and yeah, if you don't want to grow, that's fine. Do you want to think your life better?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Right? And it's just I don't have the hassles and all that.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

It's a good segue to what I was thinking uh, and I we talked, I was talking to somebody about this earlier today, actually. When you start out in construction business for the most part, especially if you're an owner, you probably had a skill or trade that you were a technician at. Probably. And and when you do that, you can run a couple million dollar business because you're you have your hands on it, you've been in the job, you've been in the field, you can hire another technician because you you're an expert that you can tell that they're pretty good at. And by the way, a lot of these things you sort of get certified to be in some cases. Sometimes you just learn. Then as you start to get bigger, you get farther and farther away from each project. And now you need someone else to kind of do those things. But you can kind of ask enough questions, you can drive around, maybe see three or four if you keep your geography tight. You can still keep your hands up. Maybe now you're even three, four, and five million. But at some point, this is the difference, I think, between every successful construction business that goes from owner-led found five-ish million to bigger. And it's the owner's ability to realize that they are now a business owner and they're not a the plumber, they're not an electrician, they're not a drywall person, they're not concrete. Because you are now, if you don't like what that person's doing and you haven't taught teach them, if you were around a bunch of business owners, they'd be saying the same thing about you that you're saying around them.

unknown 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

And as soon as you realize that, your brain shifts, you're like, damn, I'm the gopher boy on the project now again, and I need to get my shit together.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

And you're the highest paid gopher boy in the project, right? And that I think one of the mistakes I made in my business early on is I didn't collaborate enough. Now, I was a member of the National Speakers Association, I still am, and I've had great success, but I didn't I I didn't get people involved, I didn't join peer groups. I don't that that was my insecurity, you know. We can do therapy on me later, right? But the advice I bring, the advice you bring, the advice peer groups bring, right? Local trade associations, whatever it is, there's a vehicle out there to get an outside perspective to go, oh, you're screwing that up. Oh, yeah. And I would say it's one of the biggest mistakes I made early on. And it's one of the big mistakes because they don't have time to get engaged. I don't have time to go do a trade association once a month.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

I think it's a comfort level too. I mean, if you think about you just outlined a scenario where you've got a five million dollar HBAC owner, for example, or you said plumbing. Oh, sorry. Either one doesn't matter. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. And then now they're growing and and and he or she's getting further and further away from the actual work, but that's what they know how to do. That's where their comfort zone is. Getting into that business owner mode and and working on the business versus, you know, working on business versus working uh in the business, that might not be within their comfort zone. But I would say to our business owners out there, that's that's where real growth actually ends. You have to get outside of your comfort zone, you have to push the boundaries.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

And it's the exact same thing that the So let's say I have five foreman working for me. You know, most it's the exact same thing. Right? You move somebody from operator to foreman, and you're what we're talking about is identity. Right? You go home at the end of the day, honey, what'd you do today? I moved dirt, I pulled cable, I you know, put in pipe. It's identity, it's tangible. Look at this, this is good stuff. What'd you do today? I managed. Yeah, what is gap crushed it today, honey? You know, so you get an identity issue, but you're right, it's a mind switch, and we've talked about it three, four different ways already. That if you don't flip that switch, you will be in a continued cycle of you don't and I'll use the word dependence, right? Almost codependent on the business and and then on an island because you never have time to reach out and you know, and just see how are other people doing this?

SPEAKER_05 12:15

And you asked to own the business, right? You you made the decision to own the business. Who you blame? So I know but I but I say that and I've said that to some of our some some of our customers and our prospects. So they they lean on us for a lot for just kind of talking shop, right? Right. And I said it's the burden you bear. It's the burden you bear, and you have to accept that burden.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Well, I say it's your name on the side of the truck. Exactly. And that brings great opportunity and great, what's the flip side of opportunity? I don't know. Uh bad cash flow.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

I don't know. There's there's downside to opportunity for that too. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

But how many people put their name on the side of the truck and don't understand this distinction between what a real business looks like, right? And and cash flow, and again, you guys, cash flow, right? It's if you don't understand this, you're not running a business. I didn't understand until I went and got an MBA, right? Uh and and they're like, oh, that's what they were talking about? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Well, that's the exact shift I was talking about. Is when you can transition to being a business owner, you then have a shot because now you know what game you're playing, you know your role in the game, you know what you can go do. The hard part, I think, is is when you know what you could do in the field, but you're not there. You know what you could do if you had to like put people into the field and lead the project, but you're not there. So you're trying to do that from afar. In in a sales world, I came from a sales background. And when I was a sales rep and I got promoted to a sales manager, I all I tried to do is be super rep to seven reps. Like, oh, how can I just basically do it all? But seven, that was exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Let me show you how good I am.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah. And you get promoted to a, you know, a VP of sales or a director of sales, and now you're just trying to be like super sales manager. That doesn't work. And so it's that transition. But once you someone tells you, and it's so simple, once you get on, once you're understood and they're telling you that, you now have the ability and control to fix it. And most, what I love about construction contractors, especially the owners in construction, they know what to do. Half the time, they're just not aware of the game they're playing or the problems that they're they're gonna get into. But once you show them, they can like fantastic. Oh, do that.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

I can oh, I'm gonna check that stuff off. Yeah. Right. So it does become it, it's a solvable problem, right? And not everyone ever fig always figures it out, but we have the the fortune to work with people who are or have or want to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah. I mean, this is exactly what happened to me seven years ago. I went to my first entrepreneurial group, call it peer group, whatever, whatever group it is, and I'm around a bunch of other business owners, entrepreneurs, and I'm like realizing I'm a sales manager leader, sort of trying to be an entrepreneur. I'm an imposter. And I don't know shit. And so once I'm having these conversations, I realize how much shit I don't know. And now I was like, it was empowering. I left. I remember telling my wife, hun, I don't know what I don't know what I'm doing. Like she's like, well, you got this far, but you can figure it out. Like, I go, but I know now what game I'm playing. Yeah. And I know what I can do to get the holes in. I saw some significant ones I have, and I know where to fill those now. And over the next two years, I was able to really figure that out. And as soon as I kind of got my groove, I could start to feel a little bit more in control.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Well, when you ask somebody in the trades or in a small construction, what do you do for it? Oh, I I'm a pipe guy or you know, we we do piping. That's exactly right. Right. Yeah. And it's it's the trade, it's not the business. And when I'm talking to foremen or superintendents, I say, what do you do for a living? Well, you know, I build roads. No, no, no. You're a business person. All right. If you are running a scope of work, whether, you know, like, all right, so now we're, you know, we're the company's a little bigger and I got a foreman. That's a business. It's it's bigger than most small businesses in a lot of people cases, right? So you get a chance, you know, you're a business person. You may not be the business owner in that point, but um that it's yeah, the You're delivering value to your customer.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

That's the answer.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

That's a different game you're playing when you make that when you make the jump.

SPEAKER_05 16:23

You guys both uh sorry I didn't mean to interrupt, but you guys both mentioned the term imposter syndrome. Yeah, right. And I think too often we actually think of imposter syndrome as a bad thing. I think it can actually be a huge asset, right? It it it's only a detriment when you're actually thinking about imposter syndrome in terms of crippling action, crippling or or creating inaction. It can be motivated. But it can be so motivating. I've I've certainly experienced that. And I know a lot of my peers and I know Scott being a business owner too, I'm sure have experienced it.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Pretty much every normal human.

SPEAKER_05 16:57

No, but yeah, but use it as an asset, as motivation. So I don't want to feel like this.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Lean into it.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

When you start to expand past your comfort zone, you start to feel the imposter syndrome kicking. Oh yeah. But you have to realize like, you gotta be, and I love how a mentor of mine, Andy Frasilla, said this. You gotta be one arrogant MFer if you think that you're gonna be great at everything you do the first time. Yeah. So think about that. Like if you're really trying to expand and you're already great at some things, and now you're going into a new level, a new endeavor, and you think you're gonna be awesome at first, you do it, you gotta be a hell of an arrogant person.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

But I was the best drywaller. And I'm like, yeah, I you don't understand. I'm the best drywaller. Yeah. But think about it with kids, right? Kids learn how to ride a bicycle, right? And you kind of they're wobbly and you take the training wheels off and they get going and they crash. And we don't say you dumbass, right? Right, right. Oh, it's okay, honey, get up. You go. What do we say to ourselves? You dumbass. You dumbass.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Right? Johnny wouldn't have failed if he did it. I knew I was gonna fail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that becomes a self- It's like watching a kid learn how to walk. You know, they don't give up, they keep trying over and over again, and then they're successful. Like if you just do that same exact thing in all of life, it becomes a lot simpler. Just don't quit. Keep trying. You get a little better each time. Eventually they figure out how to crawl. Eventually they figure out if I go grab this table, I'll at least be able to stand up. You know, like it gets it gets easier.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

But notice they got assistance along the way.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

That's right. And encouragement.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah. Right. And and and and it's a I I think being a business owner can be very lonely. So that goes back to my statement earlier about collaborate more.

SPEAKER_05 18:38

You gotta put your ego aside. You gotta put your ego aside. Well, you don't have to, but it'll be more payful. It'll be more painful. But I'm saying with regard to collaboration, you were talking about industry groups that you're you're a member of and and wish you'd been maybe been a little bit more involved with in the beginning. And I wasn't saying your ego whatsoever, don't worry. But I'm saying the the the the opportunity costs of not leaning in you is you can't even measure it.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

We can't. Which but in a task-oriented, urgent business like get my whatever installed, the tyranny of the urgent grabs us, and I go, I well, I can check these five things off, but I don't need to go to the peer group today. No, you don't. But it's gonna sink you tomorrow if you don't. And and that's such a hard thing because you're getting things installed. Check now, I can build for it, you know, all those things if I have a good process.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

So let me let me ask you this question. Uh, how do you pick the right peer group? In a world where there's so much garbage out there, that's a great and there's also so much great groups out there, and we are and we now know and have talked at a length it's needed. Yeah, how do you go about finding the right group such a good question for you?

SPEAKER_02 19:54

I s I think social proof matters here, right? So, where do you see other people that kind of look like you um doing that kind of a thing? Uh um and so every trade has one, you know, and some of you guys might I'm too small to be in there. I mean, the chamber, depending on the locale, I mean, there's vestige, there's chamber, there's other things. But I'd be looking and going, are there any people like me there? And you know, you get on a say you're a residential contractor and you get in there and there's the plumbing guy and the job, you know, whatever, and it's like you start talking to people and go, what what do you do? That's how I find Mount. There was a guy who was a successful speaker. I was in corporate America, and he's like, Well, if you're gonna do this, you need to be part of this. Oh, okay. Um, I'd be really leery if somebody was asking for a big cash commitment from you, uh, to say, oh, to join my peer group, you have to pay 20 grand up front. That's that's not what a good peer group looks like. Sure, there may be a cost to doing business, kind of a thing, like membership, but know the difference. And the other thing I would say is don't spend a nickel until you ask somebody who's been doing it for 10 years longer than you if this is the right thing to do, because there are predators out there who are looking for folks like you, you know, the the new one, to say, I got another one on the line here. Unfortunately, that's my answer. What's yours?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

You know, I I think it breaks down in a couple categories. One, I think you need to be taking advice from people that are where you want to be and go.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

So that might be.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

It might be a mentor, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Could be a mentor, could be a it could be a coach. Yeah. Um, or it could be the the peer group, you want to be the lowest end of the peer group. Yeah, yeah, right? It could be that. Um I think if you are listening to people that aren't where you want to be, you're wasting your time. Yeah. Because there's you only have so much time, right? It doesn't mean their advice isn't gonna be bad, it doesn't mean you shouldn't take it in and process it, but if you're out looking for advice, To get where you want to go, go get it from the people that have already tripped and fell on their way to where you're trying to get to. And what I've always learned in my personal experience is those people that are way farther ahead of me, they're never out to hurt me. They always want to help. It's almost like it's a high, high 90s percentage. You don't see a person way ahead of someone else in success or endeavor or whatever it is that they want to do. You can be even if you're a marathon runner, someone with a 430 time and you're a six-minute time and you're asking them how to get there, they're not out to hurt you. You ask someone that's in the sevens, sixes alongside of you, they might give you a bunch of crab, whatever, but they're not where you want to be.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

But if they're good people, they know they're competing with themselves and not you.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

And that's that's you know, kind of this deficit mentality or growth mentality, deficit mindset, growth mindset. Look, some people do grew up in, I'll use the word a bad situation and have a deficit mentality. But when you start, like you know what grace and goodness looks like. You know what giving looks like. Um and if you don't see that, run.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Yeah. Well, the other thing I'll tell you is you won't see it if you're not that way. So the people that are that way will find the people that are that way. And if you're not that way and you try to leak in, don't be surprised to get shunned out. Yeah. Because um, people that are farther along have figured that out.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

You you you give way sooner than you get, yeah. And you attract what you put out.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

Speaking of giving, on that question of like how do you identify the group, I think the two you guys hit all of them pretty much, but I got two additional ones. Number one, really do your due diligence on what the engagement within the group is.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Like what level of engagement. And then secondly, don't join a group that doesn't require anything out out of you. Like if they require something out of you, meaning uh with regard to engagement, then there's the the the the bar is pretty low, you know. Therefore it has low value. It has no value, right? So like that free webinar.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yeah, exactly. I signed up, but I'm not gonna go. Yeah. Um yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the key things. Um, and then the you know, absolute training. Yeah, right. What do you need training on? What do you need training on? What do your people need training on? And finding a way to educate people because you can't scale without quote smart people. Uh and again, there's a lot of vehicles out there for that now, um, whether it's online or again, trade associations, those kinds of things. So I'll often, you know, you I got this guy, you need to fix him. Well, he's broken, like your dog. What happened to him? But um each one of us, and it's that classic, you know, you never walk in the same river twice, right? You uh whether it's a$10 million business to a$15 million or a billion to a 1.5, you need to grow to grow the business. Uh and some people are like, Yeah, I gotta figure it out. You need to fix them. No, what are you doing different as as as it grows, it you will be incapacitated, right? It'll outgrowth your capacity. So what coaching do you get? What what what counsel do you get? What education do you get? Um because you're kidding yourself if you think I'll just keep doing what I used to do and the business scaled by 50%.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

On that, I I on that I do have a question. So you we're talking about that five million dollar plumber, right? Now he's growing now for the past few years, he's been managing his whole team on his own. The guy's doing the work, right? He's doing the work. Right, he's right there. Now he's done a really good job. His guys love him, right? Oh yeah, good, good dude. Yeah, yeah. And then he grows to a$10 million company. Now he has a group of folks in between him and what and the actual work. What is what is man what does leadership look like between the two different groups? How do you how do you grow as a leader? Now you're leading another layer of people.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

No, so we've talked, we started the conversation with systems, right? Yeah. So you I write books on leadership. None of that matters if you can't get material to a job site and you can't get it costed, right? So the systems piece, I would argue, is more important than the leadership early. Then so now we've got some systems in place. God help me for saying this. It's a values conversation. Like, what are the rules that we play by? Um, and safety, tater, and quality are not them, right? I mean, those are cute, but you know, what are the what are the words, right? You guys have a phenomenal set of values and other, but then you say, okay, here are the nor I'll get a little consultant D. These are the norms of behavior, right? This is how we do fill in the blank, right? Customer service. Your definition of customer service and yours and mine differ. They're probably along the same lines because I think we all share a same similar values, but oh, customer service at mobilization funding, we answer the phone within two rings. Um I'm maybe you do, maybe you don't. I don't know, whatever it is, right? For me, there's a responsiveness within it used to be 24 hours, but with everybody with a device now, it's it's like kind of like the end of the day, right? Or before I go to bed, right? So maybe so what does that really begin to look like for us? So now I've got this layer in between us, and and they're like, okay, I I know the parameters, I know the guidelines, I know I if I if I'm operating within these norms, um probably be okay. The other thing is giving them permission, right? I I trust you.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Yeah. Um how do you get to that point though? And I and I know I'm getting a little granular here. Give it to them or forget it. Or no, just as that growing contractor, you uh you've taught the guys in between you to you've taught, you've showed them, you've demonstrated, then you've coached them. At what point in your experience with your clients have you have have you had a conversation with an owner and said, This is what worked. This is what the point where I said, okay, I've got people running the day-to-day for me.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, it's it's a it's a trust thing. Right. So it really is recognizing, oh my God. You know, why do you do this?

SPEAKER_05 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And what do you want your life to look like in three, five, ten years? And you begin with the end in mind, right? And yeah, a lot of guys start businesses, you're young, the kids are young. Um, do you want to actually be able to see your kids' high school football game or dance? What whatever it is, right? Because call it work life balance, whatever, right? I mean, the business will consume us. We know that. So you begin with the end in mind and go, What? So why should I lose weight?

unknown 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Well, because I want to see my grandchildren, because I want to, whatever, whatever. So now I'm standing over the French fry and I'm going, don't do it. Now you have a purpose. Yeah, that's a great way of saying it, right? So similarly, I now have, you know, I hired an estimator, a chief estimator, you know, and a uh field, a general superintendent, kind of, and I got these three people, and I and I tr I trust them, but man, right? Uh don't eat the French fine, man. Let them go. Yeah. Look, if you have a decision that is 500 bucks, take it. If it's a thousand bucks, give me a call. But the first thing I'm gonna do is say, what do you think? And nine times out of ten, I'm gonna go, go. And then it's gonna be a ten thousand dollar decision.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

That's such a that's such a good tactic. I haven't thought about that, but that's such a good tactic.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

And then it'll be a million dollars.

SPEAKER_05 29:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah. Empower. Yeah. Guide, give some instruction, empower.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

When people hear delegation, they hear you got it. No, I could just delegate to you, hey, go get me information. So now you've figured out where the information is. Go get the information and give me a recommendation. Yeah. Go get the information. Oh, actually, the one before that is go get the information I'll decide, go get the information you decide, go do it. Right. So there's a risk management uh matrix almost as you go.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

That's such a good embedded risk manager.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

As opposed to like you, I I can't delegate to him. He doesn't know. Don't. Yeah. That would be stupid to, you know, just give it to him, but go get the information. Yeah. And and you kind of build some confidence on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah. And if you're going to make a decision, make a decision with them so they can see how a decision gets made based on the information.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

And that's the kind of the later stage of this conversation. Because if you go there too early, I don't have the capacity to understand what the hell you're selling for. Right. It's, it's, it's my focus is here on, hey, we need material, right? And you're thinking cash flow, and you're starting to educate me on cash flow. I'm like, I just need material. I I I'm not there yet. This is the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. We're stuck on steps, right? Yeah. And you're saying, just go build the sandwich. And I'm like, I don't even know what the materials are on the sandwich. So, yes, at some point we get to that, hey, let's talk about this. Let's talk. Let me tell you why I did that. Because it may not have looked, I I know you didn't dis I know you didn't agree with it. And you know something? That's a perfect decision based on this context, but here's this context, right? And you know, shutting customers in construction, lose the battle to win the war.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

When you're talking to your clients, what is an obstacle that they feel, or what are the obstacles they feel that impede their growth the most today?

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Well, you know, they're gonna say getting work. Like if I could get more work, life would be easier.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Well, true. I mean, I like to get work too, but it's getting the right work. So they may not even know who their ideal client is. And they'll step right outside of that. And it looks, man, it's contiguous, it's right next to there. But you could lose a lot of money right there. It could be a neighboring town, it could be a neighboring trade, uh, you know, but what what you know, what's your core? And have incredible clarity on that. Because then you can build off the core intentionally, as opposed to ad hoc inadvertently by accident. So I would think that's one of the so you got to get work, but you got to get the right work. Um and then it's gosh, I think we've talked about it, Scott, but it's that mentality. There's some people who have a few success. Yeah. Uh, which goes back to a mama's house story. It's uncomfortable doing all his stuff. And do I pull? Tell us. So I was at an insurance uh captive, a high-end captive. And we're at the four seasons Orlando, maybe? I've been in a lot of nice hotels. I've never been in a Four Seasons. I'm not at like I'm comfortable in most situations. The guy checking into in next to me says, Yeah, we'll be staying here for four weeks. Sweet. That's not my world. And there was a moment where I had this, I don't belong here. And then I walked into a room with a bunch of construction companies, happy construction companies. I'm like, these are my people. Oh, by the way, they're fortunate the four seasons. But um, we all have pretty sweet places, isn't it? I walked very quickly through it, didn't want anyone to see.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Everything's good. Lobby smells good, the coffee, the free coffee in the lobby is even better than you can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

You're a regular.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

I've tried. I've I was lucky enough. I told you I came from the med device sales world. I used to get to go on free trips.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

And for those of you out there who are wondering, I wouldn't know anything about the four seasons.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

So yeah, and and evidently there's ones higher up, but it's a little bit of imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

But I remember when I first went, I was like, they just ruined all my vacations. I went to a regular Marriott and I was like, full service sorry, honey. I've arrived. I'm sorry I ruined everything first. I hope I can win the trip again.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

But to get back to our subject, right? One of the reasons people don't grow and succeed is there's a little voice inside of them that says you don't deserve this. We're not doing therapy here, but that voice exists in a lot of people. Yeah. And it could be there for any number of reasons. Um, but getting over that, it's not necessarily for your failure, it's for your success.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, it's you're not enough either. You don't you don't have it.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Right. Do I belong at this table?

SPEAKER_04 34:35

And if I don't have it, I can't lose it.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yes. This is some heavy stuff. Some of you go, what are these guys?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

I mean, I mean, if they're if they're if they're really listening, that they hear that they know exactly what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

No, but that's a real, I mean, that's an absolutely real feeling. Yeah, there's a real feeling.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

I'm the vice president of a big construction company. And uh he said, I was always the tool hander to my dad. So we're doing pick the thing, automotive, drive, whatever it was. And it was always hand me the tool. I would this is a 40-something-year-old man and a billion-dollar company saying, I was never good enough to hold the tool. I was always a tool hander. There's some baggage for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah. Some point you gotta step through it. Otherwise you get to that's I mean, that's how you end up with the success you wanted, quote unquote, on paper, or you're farther alone than you ever thought you would have, but yet you're still miserable. That's how that happens. But you can't step through it if you don't know it's there. That's right. So this is that's right. You gotta have the awareness of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, I uh like my son's 24, and I'm, you know, we have a great relationship. And regularly I find myself saying, I think that's a decision you have to make for yourself. Right? Like, yeah, there's some I'll sell opinion on, but dude, go.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

It's like yeah, I'm talking about we're talking about all these kind of like mental mentalities and you know, through growth. And it's something that just you and I talked about this before, but just keeps on coming back to my mind. You know, you know you need to change or you know you need to do something, right? And the pain, the only way you're ever gonna do it is the pain of not doing it exceeds the comfort of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:21

I mean, I and and I just keep on coming back to that. And and I think we've all experienced that to some degree, but um, it's just a mentality that that makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

So let's talk about this our world right here, right? So I start a business and all of a sudden it's a it's a multimillion, it's a couple million dollar business. I remember the first time my business went over a million dollars. And I'm walking downstairs, you know, on January 8th, and and I have this okay. And my wife is like, what? And and I said, the the the business did a million dollars last year. Like, I'm just this blue-collar kid, you know? And uh it and there's a and then you go, okay, cool. Do I want two? Do I want 10? Do I want 20? Whatever it may be, but there's that, oh my god, moment. Do I deserve it? What do I do now? I can't, you know, and I don't get here. Oh my god, yeah, no, there's definitely that. A lot of hard work. Yeah, that's the truth of everybody listening to this. They wouldn't be listening to this if they weren't looking for a little something. Yeah. I I don't know. I I I throw this number around. I think 70% of the contractors in America never want a guy like you or me to show up. Because we'll stir the pot a little bit. And the majority of them are doing fine. They're putting some money on the bottom line. Yeah, cash flow may be a little tight, but they make it work. Um and maybe there's 10% that are the exemplars. And pick the trade, pick the part of their like the people who you just, you know, owe them. Yeah, and then there's a like again, 20%, whatever the number is, of people who are like, yeah, that's where I will, you know. So people that are at the top of that bottom tree that want to move up, right? Those are the folks that are listening and saying, how do I get better? Uh, but the majority of folks just it's it's time to make the donuts every day, just going in and just, uh yeah, same old, same old. I don't have time for it. Oh, by the way, it may cost money, right? How often do you hear this? I need a new website. That's that's great. Do you know somebody you can do it cheap? You mean your primary marketing vehicle? Uh or I don't need a website. Actually, it's 2026. You probably do. But you know, you hear this. Uh and if people are not willing to invest in themselves.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Yeah. And see, that mentality though is the one that keeps you. Yeah. You can only get as far as you believe you are or can be.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Right. And it's more about where you can be than where you are, because you always should be thinking farther ahead than you're at. But what happens is your internal self will pull you to where you think you belong, even if it's subconsciously. And so that's why you have got to push farther past. It doesn't mean you have to push beyond your limits all the time and be this reckless person. What I'm talking about is you have to not let yourself be limited by your own beliefs or beliefs that you've put on yourself or someone else's set. Leave yourself room to expand into so that you and that you realizing you're enough and or you'll figure it out. It's about it's that you'll figure it out. Have the faith that you are enough to figure it out. Not enough now, of course you're enough now, but you're enough to figure it out. So here's a tool to help figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Um true North, feel the book. It's there's a book called True North. This is a workbook. 220-something pages. It starts with life journey. So here's the thing. We're talking about leadership a lot, right? Some people can tell me what their values are. We talked about that already, but they can't tell me why their values are. And if you don't have the why, your foundation is not solid. If your foundation is not solid, you know, you're you're a crisp. So true north field guide, field book. Uh put it in the show notes. Uh-huh. And this is a month long process because you're going to start thinking about things you have never thought of or you haven't thought about in a long time. We get on time. Can I tell the story? Yeah, of course. So I'm writing my first book, and uh, you go through this story journey, right? Of the things, the the signature moments of my life. And so here I am, I'm I'm my late 30s, I've been a Marine officer, MBA, all these things. I'm I'm successful, right? I got a hard time firing people out in corporate America. I got a hard time firing people. Uh first thing I did that I I took a disc profile and I learned that I'm a people guy. People guys have a hard time firing people. Okay, check. I understand that. But I'm going through the story journey, and true north will take folks through this. 16 years old. Christmas break, and I'm working at the shop at the place where my dad worked as the warehouse foreman. Yeah. My brother, 22 at the time, just getting into the trades, it was a flooring company, Long Island, worked in New York City, Christmas break. So we're all there. That night is the uh the Christmas party, which back then was in the shop, right? You should sweep everything out, and you know, you had the party there. So I'm sweeping, my brother comes back from a job, and uh, you know, Pop says help him out, and you know, putting the tables out. And there was this announcement. And for those of you who can't tell, I'm relatively short, my entire family is, and it was Big Bill, my dad, right? You know, Big Bill, report to the author. So Pop walks in and he comes out and he says, Let's go. What do you mean, let's go? He goes, and he's white. He goes, We don't work here anymore. New manager comes in, cleans house. Now, my dad, child of the depression, you know, he only missed work when he was in a hospital kind of you know, first they're in, last they're out. But hey, it was the purge. I'm 16, who cares, right? We go home that night and they were supposed to go to the Christmas party, and mom and so mom says, All right, well, let's this pub they used to go to, let's go to the stack of barley. So Pop's getting dressed and he's putting his sock on, he looks up at my mom, he says, Annie, what day is today? She goes, Oh, it's Friday. Why am I getting dressed like this? It was a TIA, it was a stroke. Now he got better, right? And I'm not blaming the new general manager for that, but he gets partial credit. So here I am 20 years later, I have a hard time firing people. Think that maybe there's a piece right back here that says, When your old man got fired, it was I use the word trauma. That's a strong strong word. You know, I mean, but it's overused, but it's but it's appropriate here. Yeah, and and I don't even know it's in small cat small matters, right? That realization a 90-day action plan for me at that point was 283 days. Like, don't do that, don't do that. I told you not to do that. I'm really gonna get serious next time, and I couldn't hold people accountable. From that day on, a 90-day action plan went 90 days. Sounds a little dramatic, but the self awareness piece, you want people to step into this leadership role. Now that we've put a layer in between them, they need the self awareness to know what am I good at, what am I not good at, where are my demons, etc. And you know, it's go get true Northfield guy.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

I love it. Wally, what else do you want to add to this? What have we missed?

SPEAKER_02 44:04

You know, we're talking about you know the audience here is a lot of business owners. It's worth it. The hard work that we have talked about, the humbling work of getting counsel, et cetera. You gain a freedom as a business owner that not a lot of people have. You're working your ass off, you know, no doubt about it. But the ability to say, no, I'm gonna take today off, or to to make a little more money because you're putting that risk out there, it's not for everybody. But for those who are interested in it, there's help out there and there's smarter ways of doing it. You don't have to bang your head against the wall. There's other people who have done it, there's advisors and all that stuff. But I would say it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah, I think all these journeys are worth it. There's certainly a business owner being part of work with other business owners, but more of like the growth that it forces one of the things I think people say a business owner is worth it is because there is there is a definition of success at the end of it usually comes with some of those things you mentioned. Some freedom, a little bit more money, those things, right? But what really you gain self-esteem is that is the things you've built to get to that point along the way about yourself, a different level of confidence that doesn't come from the money and it doesn't come from the assessment it comes from what you now know that got helped you get there. And it could be And that's the journey about it all.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Maybe it's not an owner, probably. Maybe it's somebody who goes from an operator to being a foreman. Yeah. Right? I mean, it's the exact there's a prog there's a growth curve there. Yep. And here's what we know about humans is they can grow and they can change. And we have, you know, neuroplasticity and agency and all that stuff. We have the remote in our hand every single day, but so many of us don't even pick it up.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah, it's inputs, it's inputs and outputs, man. You gotta make the deposits and you gotta do the work. And time is an absolute part of the equation. You do not get to skip time. You gotta put it in for a period of time. It's not instant in this world where we can Uber eat everything to our house and do nothing. This is this isn't that's not part of this journey. It's there's time. It takes time.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

Yeah, there's time and grain required, but I guess I think it's worth it. Well, what you said.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Well, being the only one sitting here that's not a business, you know, a business owner or or someone who started a business. Um I think there it you know, I had a mentor once tell me, uh, have someone to love, have something to do, and have something to look forward to. If you have those three things that, you know, you can have a happy life. And I think there's a couple other things that I personally need outside of those. Uh but I would say something to look forward to. I think as a business owner, there's a there's a perpetual feeling of looking forward to what's next. And I think that's a really powerful motivation.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah. Yeah. So here's what the new scientists say faith, family, friends, and meaningful work. It's true. If if you put those things into your life, you're gonna have happiness.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

I don't think you're literally meaningful work. Yeah, and I don't I don't think you can um I don't think you'll ever have a true level of success that comes with comfort and peace if you don't have uh faith in the higher being power. Whatever you believe. I believe in Jesus, but it depends on whatever you believe. You've gotta, if you think you just were sp spotted on this earth one day, then you're gonna it's gonna be part of your struggle for a long time. And the more you pour on top of that, particularly the more success, the more uh responsibility, the more, the more, the more, whatever it is, that component will shine a light brighter and brighter. The gap of that will haunt you. Um and I think that is what a lot of people end up finding and seeing. The one other thing I was gonna say though, and a lot of people think, well, I don't want to start a business. That's okay, you don't have to. The only difference between all the things we're talking about right now and owning the business versus being like an entrepreneur is you don't have to take the risk. Yeah. And the risk isn't part of the journey and the juice and all the things you learn. It's the journey and the juice and all the things you learn. If you get it, and if you can get attached to a business that's growing and you grow with it as an entrepreneur, there is you can make a lot of money, you can live an amazing lifestyle, you can be part of that journey too. Um and you don't, and you don't, that risk in the early-on days and the things you don't know, they they have a toll that I promise a lot everyone wants to pay. And um you can see the end of it, and any business owner knows what I'm talking about right now, but the wake that that risk creates and the toll it takes on you isn't really necessarily always worth it. And and if someone told you what it was gonna be before you started, I bet you 99 times out of a hundred, someone would pick the entrepreneur path. And there's nothing wrong with it. And there's nothing wrong with it. That's what I mean. Because uh it's real. There's those things that are pressure, and and and um the pressure and the risk are all there. People like, I'm in risk and risk, but the ones that are listening know exactly what I'm talking about. Make and payroll kind of a thing. Even more than that. Yeah, and so it's um it's just part of those things to get comfortable with. Like while you're uncomfortable, be get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Um when I f started my business, a buddy of mine who'd had his own for a while, he after a year, he goes, Well, how's it going? And he was on my board um outside counsel, right? And uh I said, Well, you know what's got kind of figured out, whatever. It's going good. He goes, just remember, the fear never goes away. He said, But you know you can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Like, oh so true.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Man, that was awesome. I'm glad you came in, man.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

You know, I I always want to be, you know, if not a MFR, be with MFer.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Hey, you got you got you got a lot of the M for gear, and you're gonna get the next Dave today, too. You know, we rebranded the podcast is now called the Mobilization Mindset. So you actually can you actually can be proud to be like some new things.

SPEAKER_05 50:36

We can put it on a t-shirt now.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

We can definitely put it on a t-shirt. We have it on other, he's got some.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

I loved it the way it was.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Yeah, it's still good. Those are vintage. We're gonna have to make some vintage ones of those.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

The OG M effers.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

Man, Wally, appreciate you coming, man. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

I'm grateful. I kind of forced my way in here getting all the plug.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Dude, I told you call anytime you ever come. You're in.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Well, everybody, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope you found value in it. Follow us all. You can catch Wally on the LinkedIn on LinkedIn. You can see his show notes, mobilizationfunding.com, Drew's LinkedIn, my LinkedIn, our YouTube channel, which is Mobilization Funding. Check us out. Until next time, may God bless you and have a great week.