Tom Curry shares how he has worked to build trust with his staff, students, and their caregivers as a new principal in a time of significant transition and change. Tom describes how restorative practices are critical to establishing a culture where everyone’s voices are heard within a safe and trusting school environment.
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Tom Curry shares how he has worked to build trust with his staff, students, and their caregivers as a new principal in a time of significant transition and change. Tom describes how restorative practices are critical to establishing a culture where everyone’s voices are heard within a safe and trusting school environment.
Research to Support This Work:
Get solutions from Schoolutions!
#solutionsfromschoolutions #schoolutionsinspires #schoolutionspodcast
Schoolutions –S1 E15: Building a Community Practice through Systemic Change & Restorative Practices with Tom Curry
[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. Before I introduce my guest today, I want to thank all of you for listening and for giving this podcast a chance. This is officially the 15th episode.
[00:00:25] Olivia: I could not be more grateful to have been inspired by the guests I've interviewed so far. I also want to take a moment and share what made me want to start this podcast in the first place. To be perfectly frank, I started it out of fear. Fear that the profession I have loved dearly and known I would step into since I was seven years old in Sandy Hall's second-grade class at Booth School is fading.
[00:00:50] Olivia: Fear that unless someone starts listening and seeking out solutions to obstacles we are facing in public education, we as a country would be on the brink of a public education crisis. But I choose to seek out the solutions finders, the problem solvers. I have to hold on to hope, hope that we as a community will better hear what teachers need right this very minute to keep showing up.
[00:01:20] Olivia: The educators I know, and love all adore children. But what happens when the system makes choices without children's best interests in mind? Leaders that feign to listen yet make choices that defy best Practices over and over again. Well, that's what's keeping me up at night. But then there are principals like Tom Curry.
[00:01:45] Olivia: Tom is a beacon of light on the darkest of days. As he greets children, caregivers, and staff each morning, his head, heart, and gut are ready to take on the day. Tom listens, like he really listens. He cares and asks his staff how they're doing, what they need to be the best they can be for each child they teach and provides it.
[00:02:10] Olivia: He's a new principal and yet an old soul. I invited Tom to be a guest, not only because of his brilliant use of Restorative Practices with his staff and students, but also because of a difficult conversation he was brave enough to have with me. You'll hear more about that later in the episode.
[00:02:30] Olivia: So, I guess what I'm trying to say is we can't stop trying. We have to take risks. As messy and exhausting, as the work sometimes feels. Let our children see us learn, stumble, and grow alongside them. Give students autonomy over their learning, and we won't be so tired. And look for the Tom Currys out there.
[00:02:55] Olivia: He's ready, and so am I. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest, Tom Curry. Tom is the principal of Chenango Bridge Elementary School in Chenango Valley, New York. Chenango Bridge houses grades three through five and is one of two elementary schools within the Chenango Valley Central School District.
[00:03:18] Olivia: Tom, welcome. I'm excited to have you.
[00:03:21] Tom: Thank you. I'm excited to be here, Olivia.
[00:03:23] Olivia: I like to kick off every episode with hearing about who inspires you as a teacher, what keeps you going every day.
[00:03:32] Tom: I think that the main thing that always inspired me, I took a different path into education. When I did get into education and being a teacher, I was learning and like a sponge soaking it all up.
[00:03:43] Tom: When I started to go into leadership, that's really what keeps me going every single day. I feel like I'm learning from every person that I work with across this entire building. They definitely keep me going and inspire me.
[00:03:55] Olivia: I know our paths crossed when you were the Dean of Students for grades 9 through 12, I believe, in the district.
[00:04:03] Tom: Yep.
[00:04:03] Olivia: And then I had the gift of starting our journey together when you became the principal at Chenango Bridge this school year. Which is quite a year to begin this journey. With everything going on in the world, it's no easy task. And I know you were a music educator for four or five years before becoming an administrator.
[00:04:25] Tom: Yep.
[00:04:25] Olivia: I worked with Chenango Bridge Elementary before you were a principal. I know the building itself, the staff, they've been through a lot of transition and change. So, I wanted to invite you as a guest because you have taken a different route with the staff to build trust and a part of that path is Restorative Practices.
[00:04:51] Olivia: I wanted to hear more about your journey with that. I think it's important for us to define what Restorative Practices are for our listeners. I know Restorative Practice slash justice began in the 1970s. That's when it originated. It didn't really come into schools until the 1990s. How have you learned about Restorative and where did it go from there?
[00:05:15] Tom: Yeah. So, I do not consider myself a Restorative expert at all. The district had taken on the work, and they sent me to a training. It was a three-day training through BOCES, and I fell in love with it. We did a lot of circle talks. We did a lot of what the structure is and what the foundations are, and as I entered the school year, I just wanted to harness it and make it a Practice across the whole building.
[00:05:41] Tom: That kind of just sort of enveloped me and now really across the entire building, we have it occurring with students, we have it occurring with staff, and I really just love the knowledge that you gain from those Restorative conversations and those formations of circles and everything in between all of those Practices.
[00:06:01] Olivia: So, meeting your staff, first time, it's always before the students arrive. How did you use what you knew about Restorative to set the tone?
[00:06:11] Tom: Yeah. So, over the summer, I started an initiative of having meetings with all of the teachers. I. framed those conversations around where the teachers were at. I really wanted to know where they were coming from the previous school year, um, learning from that myself, but then having an open and honest conversation about what they would like to see. Allowing for that space for them to explain what they've been through as an educator.
[00:06:35] Tom: There are a lot of first-year, second-year teachers here, but then there are a lot of very tenured staff here as well. Everybody's coming from different walks of life and education. And I really want it to have a firm understanding of where everybody was going. And I think that that set the tone. Cause we were able to have an open and honest conversation about where they were coming from and sort of sharing my perspectives on things and where I'm coming from too.
[00:06:59] Tom: I think in addition to Restorative and kind of goes hand in hand as I want to lead as a transparent leader, I'm a person who's always open and honest with my staff about how I'm doing personally, professionally, to show I would like the staff to be as well, to be as transparent and as honest as possible so that we can move forward.
[00:07:19] Tom: Because we're all people, you know, we're all individuals who are coming from different walks of life and we're doing really important work.
[00:07:26] Olivia: Tom, I think the reason that's absolutely critical is what we model, the relationship between administrator and teacher, is what our students are seeing as well. And it's what hopefully the teachers can model for their students.
[00:07:41] Olivia: And eventually the students will model for each other.
[00:07:44] Tom: Exactly.
[00:07:44] Olivia: It's beautiful. So, one on one meetings with all of the teachers and where did it go from there?
[00:07:50] Tom: Then it started to grow into grade level. I'm a pretty structured person. I really like to go at things from the granule level and then growing into larger groups.
[00:08:00] Tom: We do a lot of committee work in the district. Over the summers, I started to invoke those first committee meetings. We started them with Restorative circles. I actually didn't let the staff know exactly what was going on. It wasn't really like; this is a Restorative Circle. I more so led a conversation that had a circular motion to it and just open-ended questions.
[00:08:25] Tom: We did start with a check-in in those conversations. And then at the end of the meeting, we had a checkout. Where I introduced the concept of Restorative and really what I did was I said, this is exactly what we did at the beginning and now I'm just calling it something. Which then allowed the staff to feel more willing to then take part in something that was a little different.
[00:08:47] Olivia: So walk us through, I've heard you use the term Restorative circle. What does that look and feel like?
[00:08:52] Tom: Yeah, the way that I have taken it is really with the framework of typically sitting in a circular formation. I use four sets of norms for all the circles that happen in the building. One of the norms is the conversation must always go in one direction.
[00:09:08] Tom: So, no interjection, someone speaks, the leader primarily starts, and then it passes off and it goes around the circle in one direction. The comment is always made that what happens here stays here. This is a safe space. It does not leave here.
[00:09:23] Olivia: Like Vegas.
[00:09:25] Tom: Exactly! And then you can always pass, so always allowing for that ability to pass and not say anything if somebody doesn't feel comfortable.
[00:09:33] Tom: And this was the hardest one for me to understand, the nonverbal, not really saying, yes, I agree with you, but giving more of nonverbal cues so that you're not interjecting or cutting somebody off from saying their thought really framing everything around those four ideas. And the building now is in a place where they fully understand those four concepts.
[00:09:55] Olivia: And so, you usually launch that circle with a question or a thought and then you go around once. Do people have the opportunity to respond to each other?
[00:10:04] Tom: Yeah, so there's always a reflective piece at the end. We'll start with a check-in. So normally it's like a one to five. We'll say, you know, where are you at?
[00:10:11] Tom: Sometimes we'll say a why. So we'll send it around with that, where are you at and why, and then might send it around with a question that is due to whatever topic that we might be discussing in the meeting, and then send it around for a reflection on what everybody had said.
[00:10:27] Olivia: Great. And I, I know the listeners aren't able to see what you just did with your hands, but you are actually making that circle.
[00:10:34] Olivia: And each time the send it around kicked off, it was starting in an opposite direction.
[00:10:38] Tom: Yeah. I typically like to change it one way and the other. Yeah.
[00:10:42] Olivia: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know not just, um, at your staff meetings that you use this model, but you also use this model when it comes to developing instructional leaders.
[00:10:54] Olivia: I do want to go back to a moment in time that we shared when I was in your building, and I believe it was the first time we had ever worked together where I was an outside consultant coming into your space. And the learning over the day was amazing with teachers as it usually is. Your staff is incredible.
[00:11:14] Olivia: And at the end we had a debrief in the library. And I ran it as I typically would. Unfortunately, it really didn't match your norms. I didn't know until I received an email from you asking for a phone call. And we were lucky to jump on Zoom together, but I'd love for you to share. You're a brave soul to reach out. And so, share with our listeners what happened in that moment when it didn't feel good in the meeting.
[00:11:45] Tom: Yeah, so that was a, that was a first for me too, Olivia. Where I guess I didn't realize the power behind the Restorative Model because. In that moment, I felt uncomfortable when you were presenting the way things were typically done before. And because it was just different from what I was used to doing before that meeting.
[00:12:03] Tom: And so, I reflected myself after that day of again, awesome training. But then I was thinking, I was like, you know, we do things in a Restorative nature at Bridge. Why can't we establish this for our professional developers as well? And the people who are visiting our building and establishing that. Cause again, I was doing things in house.
[00:12:22] Olivia: Yes.
[00:12:22] Tom: I was trying to establish the culture with the staff and the students, and I never thought about visitors. I never thought about that piece. So, this was a huge learning moment for me where I realized I need to reach out to Olivia and just say like, have that difficult conversation of this is what happened.
[00:12:39] Tom: This is how Bridge does it.
[00:12:41] Olivia: And the fascinating piece was the way the meeting was led. We name the work we studied, and we went around and it was putting you on the spot to ask, what are your next steps? And you weren't quite sure you didn't even have a moment to process. So, it taught me many things, but the nice thing is we got a rinse and repeat.
[00:13:04] Olivia: We got a second go, and you reached out promptly right after it had happened. And I think I was back the following week and the beauty instead of the, what is it? Sage on the stage or the presenter at the podium while everyone else is having learning bestowed upon them. Restorative deescalates in a beautiful way where we are all at the same eye level and we are listening.
[00:13:29] Olivia: There's space for everyone's voices. And I felt really fortunate to be a part of that and moving forward. The other aspect I know you're working tirelessly is to develop instructional leaders in your building. It takes a village, um, to grow the learning. And so talk to listeners, what does that look and feel like for you?
[00:13:50] Tom: Yeah, I think, I think my first thought is that release of leadership. It's that release of, you know, really trusting your people, and that's easier said than done, to actually truly trust the people that you're around, and I think that thinking about all of the time that I spent with my instructional leaders over the summer, a lot of it was these kinds of Restorative Practices, these kinds of conversations, this open air of saying how you're feeling about the role that you're in.
[00:14:20] Tom: I happened to enter this role as the new building principal with three brand new instructional leaders, they had their own reservations about being instructional leaders coming into the school year. So building that capacity for leadership, and trusting that they are very fine educators. And just like you said, the educators in this building are fantastic.
[00:14:43] Tom: So, thinking about how can I lead the work while also allowing them to lead the work because they know what they're doing.
[00:14:50] Olivia: Yes. Define what instructional leader means in your building.
[00:14:53] Tom: Yeah. So we have identified a third-grade instructional leader, a fourth-grade instructional leader, and a fifth-grade instructional leader in each grade level.
[00:15:01] Tom: That. person leads meetings, coordinates data with me to disseminate to the teams and works on the work that we're doing at Bridge helps to lead that amongst each grade level.
[00:15:12] Olivia: To wrap this conversation, I had the gift of watching the Restorative Circle, the negotiation, the conversation, deciding next steps for professional learning, because it is not you deciding for your building what you will study.
[00:15:29] Olivia: Or an outside person coming in, telling your building what's going to happen. It was beautiful to watch that conversation. I'd love for you to share with listeners. I know we are focusing on conferring and getting to know students inside, outside painting a portrait of every learner. That conversation that happened around, when are we implementing this?
[00:15:51] Olivia: How are we going to have a go? So, share with listeners your process for implementing professional learning, please.
[00:15:56] Tom: It looks a lot like the process that we just went over with the framework of the circles. Everybody has an equal voice. Everyone's given an opportunity to speak. In that particular instance, everyone did share their thoughts.
[00:16:09] Tom: And what started to happen in that conversation was individuals started to share, agree with, and then add to what they were hearing from the individual before them. And then that develops a normed group of people. We all start to understand where one another is coming from, and it builds that capacity for collaboration.
[00:16:30] Tom: When everybody has a voice in those decisions, and those voices are truly heard, then people are going to want to do the work or are willing to do the work because they're able to have that voice in it. And it really is powerful. But it is hard because sometimes you, you're not sure of where the conversation is going to go.
[00:16:51] Tom: And there have been, there have been conversations that I've had here where not everybody comes to a consensus and we have to then have those difficult conversations of, okay, so how are we going to move forward? But this process and these procedures, for lack of a better word, magical to watch. It's really cool to see how it works with them.
[00:17:13] Olivia: And what I also appreciate is the implementation of professional learning, giving space and time for people to process in between visits, because a lot of times teachers want to take everything on. And yet it doesn't feel easy, and so they can have a go, but having that time to play, and try, and work with their students, and then come back, circle back, and say, what's going well?
[00:17:42] Olivia: What do we need to retool? It's been a gift to get to work with you and your staff and support with literacy work. But the Restorative Practices are so much more and to watch the staff build trust through all the transitions and change that they've experienced recently. I think we could all benefit from some Restorative Practice work and having trusting relationships where we may not agree, but we learn to listen and pause with our reactions to each other.
[00:18:13] Olivia: So, thank you so much, Tom. I can't wait to see. where your journey evolves with your staff. Thank you, Tom.
[00:16:51] Tom: Thank you, Olivia.