Speech pathologist, Susie Betancourt, describes speech interventions for various ages and disabilities. She offers inspiration and a fresh perspective on possibilities for speech pathology outcomes ranging from younger students to adults. Susie's speech tips and resources for listeners are not to be missed!
Episode Mentions:
Connect with Susie:
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Speech pathologist, Susie Betancourt, describes speech interventions for various ages and disabilities. She offers inspiration and a fresh perspective on possibilities for speech pathology outcomes ranging from younger students to adults. Susie's speech tips and resources for listeners are not to be missed!
Episode Mentions:
Connect with Susie:
Get solutions from Schoolutions!
#solutionsfromschoolutions #schoolutionsinspires #schoolutionspodcast
[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest, an incredibly gifted speech pathologist, Susie Betancourt. I am a bit partial because Susie is my aunt! With that said, I am sure you will concur with my sentiments after learning from her as you soak in her brilliance over this episode.
[00:00:33] Olivia: Susie worked in the public schools of North Carolina for 22 years. Her prior experience was in hospitals, private practice, rehab clinics, and home health. She holds a master's in speech pathology, as well as a state license and the National Certificate of Clinical Competency. Susie has worked with all age groups from preschool through adults.
[00:00:55] Olivia: Over the past 15 years, she has worked primarily with middle and high school students. Before retiring in April, Susie completed approximately 50 diagnostic assessments annually for special education eligibility, as well as maintained a fluctuating caseload of between 50 to 60 students. Welcome, Susie.
[00:01:15] Olivia: I'm so happy to have you.
[00:01:17] Susie: Well, thank you, Livi. I'm happy to be here.
[00:01:21] Olivia: I am interested to know from you an inspiring educator from your life. Would you share with listeners?
[00:01:28] Susie: I certainly will. I've been thinking about all of my primary through graduate school teachers and professors, and I would have to say my sophomore in high school chemistry teacher, Mr. Kratzer really inspired me as far as his teaching strategies. He took abstract concepts and applied them to life skills and life chemicals and life cleaners and all the things that chemistry provides. He also was kind, gentle in voice. and a great listener and a humorous man.
[00:02:12] Olivia: The reason I desperately wanted to have you as a guest is because COVID has set so many of the systems backwards, especially with students with disabilities or students with needs and I have a good friend with a child that really needed to start receiving speech services way back in second grade.
[00:02:35] Olivia: And yet it's just now happening in fourth grade because the review, the services weren't there and the evaluation wasn't there. Is the solution early intervention? Is it advocacy? We don't always know what we don't know as parents. And I keep thinking of a time when our Ben, our oldest son, was, I think he was two and a half to three years old, and he developed a pretty significant stutter.
[00:03:01] Olivia: And I called you because I was worried, and it just seemed like he had so much to say, and he couldn't get it out. And do you remember your advice to me? Do you remember that phone call?
[00:03:13] Susie: Probably take a deep breath.
[00:03:20] Olivia: That was first. But it was such good advice. Do you remember what you said after that?
[00:03:22] Susie: I don’t!
[00:03:22] Olivia: So, you told me that it's actually developmentally totally normal that at that age, children are processing in their minds often much faster than they can articulate.
[00:03:35] Olivia: And your advice was do not finish his sentences for him…
[00:03:40] Susie: Absolutely!
[00:03:40] Olivia: Let him, right? And so, take the time and so take the time to just pause. And he ended up, I think it was about a month or two more of that significant stutter, and then it just went away.
[00:03:54] Susie: Yep.
[00:03:54] Olivia: But Susie, we know that doesn't happen, right? For all kids.
[00:03:58] Susie: Their motor skills need to catch up to their processing skills. And Livi, my son did the exact same thing, and my heart hit the floor. And I was nuts for a while about it, but you have to take a deep breath. You have to stop; you have to listen. You do not finish sentences. You do not correct what they said. Sometimes you can just repeat it at a slow rate of speed and that can be helpful.
[00:04:29] Susie: But you, generally normal developmental fluency errors do last a couple of months. So, and it can happen more than once. You can have several episodes, and it's basically the motor system catching up with processing. It meant you had a very bright young man. That brain was going.
[00:04:55] Olivia: It was going, it was going, going. And for parents, when is the best time to intervene if they do notice that their child's speech is not developing like other children?
[00:05:07] Susie: Are you speaking as far as stuttering or any disability?
[00:05:12] Olivia: I would say any, and then we can go from there.
[00:05:16] Susie: Okay, there are developmental norms for language. This is kind of my rule of thumb as far as language developing. At one year old, they should probably have a vocabulary of roughly 50 words. Single words, one word at a time. Up, go, mom, dad, book, ball. And it should be fairly intelligible. At two years of age for language, they should be at a two-word phrase.
[00:05:49] Susie: Go ball, kick ball. So that should be speaking in two-word phrases.
[00:05:53] Olivia: Yes.
[00:05:49] Susie: By three years of age, and by three years, I'm talking up to four. You know, that whole third year. You really should be able to understand what your child's saying to you. And they should be into phrases, short sentences. And it should be quite intelligible, and other people should be able to understand a great deal of it.
[00:06:15] Susie: Of course, there will always be multi-syllabic words, but really by, by four years of age, you should be able to understand your child's language. And it should be advancing from the single word level all the way to sentences.
[00:06:33] Olivia: Okay.
[00:06:34] Susie: By four. That's language. With stuttering, as I said, there is normal periods of disfluency. They should go away within a couple of months with patience and listening and not finishing the sentences. and giving them time to speak and modeling slower speech. If they are stuttering pretty consistently between three and four years of age, I would contact a speech pathologist.
[00:07:05] Olivia: Okay.
[00:07:05] Susie: For articulation, there are so many factors in articulation. Of course, there are developmental sounds. Um, first grade they should have /s/'s and /r/'s. Mid-second grade to late second grade, they should have the /r/. The /r/ is the most difficult sound because it's produced 10 different ways.
[00:07:30] Susie: It's the only sound that's produced. It depends on what vowel it's paired with. Kids use a vowel-controlled /r/ where they run the vowel into the /r/. So, squirrel might be squullllllll.
[00:07:48] Susie: They're pulling that vowel through rather than getting the tongue back and up. Second grade to third grade, definitely speech therapy for the /r/. But there's also a lot of criteria for mastery and a lot of criteria for success. You know, first of all, they have to be motivated. And a lot of times in second and third grade, their peers are so kind, and they never correct them or say anything about, you know, why can't you say that word correctly?
[00:08:24] Susie: I've had success in middle school because that's when they're so hyper-focused on their image and themselves.
[00:08:32] Olivia: Wait, so this is interesting. I wouldn't have thought that the older the children get, the more motivated they would be. To me, it would be the younger, they'd be more excited. But you're saying because there's such an urgency to correct it in their perception…
[00:08:49] Susie: Yes.
[00:08:49] Olivia: …it's no-nonsense.
[00:08:51] Susie: But then you have the factor of stimulability, which means their ability to get articulatory placement. You can generally tell within 10 sessions whether they're going to be able to get it in isolation and in syllables. I'm not a firm believer in long-term therapy when you're older. Uh, you also get into the habituated factor that that sound has been habituated in an incorrect position.
[00:09:27] Susie: So, you really have to look at stimulability, I would suggest short-term response to intervention basically is a diagnostic therapy time where you can make judgments on whether this student is going to be able to correct this or not.
[00:09:48] Olivia: I guess what you're giving me though more than anything is hope because my interpretation was once a child hits a certain point that it's been learned as a habit and articulation is not possible to be corrected. But with your work with middle, high school and adults, you see, no, no, it's possible. It's just a different way of correcting.
[00:10:11] Susie: Yes. And also, that's why I said the response to intervention, if they're highly motivated, they're going to get it in isolation and syllables within 10 sessions. It will be difficult to transfer into words and into phrases and conversation. But what you want to know most of all: Can they get that placement in isolation and syllables?
[00:10:36] Olivia: Got it.
[00:10:36] Susie: And then the rest of it flows.
[00:10:39] Olivia: What resources would you recommend for parents, whether it's North Carolina, whether it's national, to be able to gauge? You offered some really good pinpoints or benchmark age wise, are there other resources?
[00:10:54] Susie: Well, the American Speech and Hearing Association, which is ASHA, https://www.asha.org/ is a wealth of information. They have developmental charts on there. They have minor little parental screening tools. They have resources for articulation, language, voice, fluency, oral motor, swallowing. All kinds of resources.
[00:11:22] Susie: They have lists of people who are certified in your state for different specialties. And, uh, you know, now that we have early intervention at age three, contact your special ed office or your speech pathologist at your local elementary school. They can get you started.
[00:11:45] Olivia: That's exciting to know there is such a solid resource out there for families.
[00:11:49] Olivia: Something that's desperately been needed nationwide, worldwide, is a consistent approach to teaching phonological awareness and phonics, explicit instruction. And it's been, let's call it a hot mess, kind of choose your own adventure. And we're seeing the implications on children. I'm learning from Linda Farrell.
[00:12:11] Olivia: I'm excited to interview her soon. She's a reading specialist. And just the notion of articulation when it comes to the alphabet song.
[00:12:19] Susie: Right.
[00:12:19] Olivia: Even the letter names, when there's a mispronunciation of the letter name, it's in the song. It's often mispronounced in isolation too. It's just fascinating.
[00:12:30] Susie: Right. My son started reading in kindergarten and I don't know whether you remember the whole language approach.
[00:12:36] Olivia: I do.
[00:12:37] Susie: It was not effective with my son. They're also really great, you know, you have to have a license to acquire this program called Fast ForWord. Um, some school systems have bought the license. And Raleigh, North Carolina, Wake County, has the Fast ForWord Program for, basically it's designed for auditory processing phonics.
[00:13:06] Susie: But I've seen great success with that. That's a really, really great, strong research-based program. That is a lot of drill in phonics.
[00:13:17] Olivia: I do want to ask you too what is a success story that you've held on to over the years in your practice?
[00:13:25] Susie: You want just one?
[00:13:17] Olivia: Give us a couple.
[00:13:27] Susie: Well, in the high school level, I work with a lot of cognitively impaired and I also serve seven autistic classrooms. And, you know, a lot of times in autism, they are not initiators, they are responders. It's really great to work on communication systems with them. It's really great when the light goes off that they realize that language or pointing or gesturing or pictures or whatever gets something done for them.
[00:14:03] Susie: And then you see the requesting behavior starting, which is huge for autism and huge for developmentally delayed. They have to understand that language is just not something we want them to do. It gets things done for them. And I've also had some great success stories with stuttering in the high school level.
[00:14:27] Susie: This year, the valedictorian of a local high school is a severe stutterer and he is going to give the address. And one thing I will say about stuttering therapy is that it is very cognitively based. You have to think about and pre-program everything you're going to say before you say it.
[00:14:50] Olivia: It sounds exhausting.
[00:14:52] Susie: It is. It is. And frequently when they have to give oral presentations, and I also work with teachers on accommodations. You know, if the student just doesn't feel like they can do one there, they can do a one-to-one with the teacher separately. They don't have to be humiliated in front of the classroom.
[00:15:11] Susie: But this valedictorian that I have, let me tell you, he is the most confident stutterer I have ever known. I always tell him, if I could just bottle your confidence. We could do a lot.
[00:15:25] Olivia: That's fabulous. And, and I wonder too, what's gone into his development that he has that confidence, and with your support, will get up in front of a large group of people and offer a speech.
[00:15:38] Susie: Oh yeah, well he has wonderful parenting. His parents have never made a big deal. And he's also extremely motivated. And those two factors: the support, parental support and motivation are very helpful.
[00:15:52] Olivia: Yeah.
[00:15:53] Susie: As we all know that as teachers or therapists.
[00:15:57] Olivia: Indeed. I want to ask you, I know you recently retired, but you were part of a, I'm going to use the word ginormous school system in Wake County.
[00:16:07] Olivia: And if you could go back and change a couple things with the system, what would it be? Remind me of how many students that school system serves.
[00:16:16] Susie: Well, you know, we have an influx of immigrants from all across the country and across. various nations. I think the last count was about 220,000 students and I know we have 146 schools and probably 10 under construction right now.
[00:16:41] Olivia: It's amazing. So, what would you change?
[00:16:44] Susie: Well, I mean, as far as speech goes, I think Wake County does a pretty good job of breaking us into areas. Administratively, we have a clinical supervisor who is in charge of 170 therapists. Yeah, I saw your eyes widen!
[00:17:05] Olivia: That's a lot of therapists.
[00:17:06] Susie: However, she has like five under her who are area team leads.
[00:17:12] Olivia: Okay.
[00:17:13] Susie: I will say that Wake County gets high marks all the time for not being top-heavy. A lot of our money goes directly to the kids through teachers and therapists and all the support staff, and we have one superintendent where usually systems this big might have two superintendents. We have one superintendent and a whole level of assistant superintendents.
[00:17:44] Susie: I would say that every department needs to be broken down into smaller groups. I just think more gets accomplished with smaller-scale meetings. There's more interaction when I go to county meetings, you know, 170 therapists were basically there for continuing education when we get together. We only get together 4 times a year and it's always for CEUs (continuing education units).
[00:18:12] Susie: But then we do break down into areas and I would say to any school system, the smaller you can break it down where recommendations and decisions are being made, the more effective and the more the teachers feel that they have some control.
[00:18:33] Olivia: Yeah. It seems like communication would be really challenging to know what's happening in a district that large if it's not broken down into smaller districts or regions, or I don't know, even at the building level, it's really hard when it's that large, so…
[00:18:51] Susie: High schools that I serve are 3,000 students each in the high school.
[00:18:56] Olivia: Wow. Yeah.
[00:18:58] Susie: They’re large.
[00:18:58] Olivia: Susie, what are you going to miss most?
[00:19:00] Susie: Oh, the camaraderie of all the staff and the kids, of course. I miss the kids. You know, at middle and high school level, you really function on humor. You have to have a good time and they have to enjoy coming to speech and you have to build that relationship and laugh at yourself sometimes, you know, and I will definitely miss the kids. And my fellow colleagues.
[00:19:29] Olivia: Well, one of my favorite things about you is your contagious laugh, your quick wit, and your sense of humor. So, I have a feeling they will miss you just as much. I can't thank you enough for offering your brilliance and all of the nuggets of goodness. I have friends that will be dying to hear this podcast. And I am going to tuck in any resources that you've mentioned, as well as anything else you can think of in the show notes for the episode.
[00:19:59] Olivia: So, stay tuned. I'm grateful for your time. And I hope in your retirement that you have your toes in the sand somewhere with the ocean waves. And you know, of the millions of different ways you've touched children's lives over the years. So, I'm grateful for you.
[00:20:19] Susie: Thank you very much, Livi. I intend to do some chilling and I will still do an occasional evaluation.
[00:20:26] Olivia: Sounds good. I think it's good for families to know that you're still keeping yourself a little bit in the game for everyone. So, thanks, Susie. Take care.
[00:20:35] Susie: Okay, bye bye!
[00:20:40] Olivia: Bye. Schoolutions is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Susie Betancourt. Thanks to my older son Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. If you like Schoolutions, please share, rate, review, and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you want to reach out, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website: www.oliviawahl.com/podcast or via email @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Don't forget to talk about us nicely on social media, and please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.