Schoolutions - S2 E23: Schoolutions & Shifting Schools Collaboration: What is the Role of the Educational Podcast? with Olivia Wahl & Co-hosts Jeff Utecht and Tricia Friedman
[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome back, Schoolutions listeners! This week is a special collab episode with the co-hosts of the Shifting Schools podcast, Jeff Utecht and Tricia Friedman. We reflect on our journeys as podcasters offering up some of the podcasts that have influenced us most, standout episodes from our own podcasts, and lessons learned from our guests.
[00:00:36] Olivia: Most importantly, listen to be inspired and hear what we value and believe to be true in order to do right by you, our listeners. Let’s jump in!
[00:00:47] Tricia: Hello, folks. Welcome back. Uh, we are doing something a little bit different today. We are doing a collaborative podcast episode. Folks who listen to Shifting Schools likely listen to other educational podcasts as well. And my thinking on it is there can never be too many. There's lots of conversations to be had.
[00:01:08] Tricia: There's lots of amazing guests. So Jeff and I wanted to sit down and just sort of chat about really the role of the educational podcast and point you to another great resource. So Olivia, thanks for joining us today for this collaborative podcast experiment. I'm wondering if you can start us off by talking about a piece of learning that has surprised you in your podcasting journey?
[00:01:31] Tricia: Because as anybody who has started or launched a podcast knows, it is definitely a journey, and it's not necessarily like a linear trajectory of, uh, of progress. So tell us a little bit about your journey and something that has surprised you along the way.
[00:01:46] Olivia: When I launched just less than a year ago, um, it was so daunting to try to navigate the software, and something I was struggling with personally was focus. I love to read professional texts, uh, but I couldn't keep my eye on the prize. It didn't matter how many post-its I had, how many highlighters; I was losing track.
[00:02:07] Olivia: And through interview prep for each guest, that helped me completely zone in or hone in on what I was trying to get. So now, when I go back and revisit a professional, I'm going through two different lenses. I'm looking and thinking about questions that I want to ask that person that others would want to know, and then I'm also tracking quotes I may want to go back and vibe with based on what that person says.
[00:02:35] Olivia: So now, if you look at my professional books that had all of the post-iting of my teacher years, they have two different sets of new fresh post-its with the questions and quotes that I'm lingering. It's a huge benefit to revisit professional texts that we've read at different points in our life. So that's something that really was a happy surprise to me.
[00:02:59] Olivia: Jeff, how about you?
[00:03:01] Jeff: Yeah, I think. Oh, that's such a great question. Much along the same lines is, you know, there's so many different ways to do professional development nowadays, and for me, this is my own professional development. I mean, to your same type of thing. Who would I like to talk to, and could I just get them on the podcast, and we're just going to have a conversation and press record, and you just get some incredible insight, you know?
[00:03:25] Jeff: Um, and I think to me, that's probably been the biggest thing over the years, is just the ability to get to talk to people and push my own thinking. I'm very much an auditory person. I'm, I'm not a big reader, as Trisha knows, Trisha's the reader in the group. Um, but I just love chatting with people, and, you know, the same idea is that you just, you learn so much through those conversations.
[00:03:48] Jeff: And I always bring it back to, you know, when you go to a conference, many times when you're at a conference, it's the learning that happens in the hallway, not in the session that is the most valuable. And I feel like that's what podcasting is. Podcasting is constant conversations in the hallways of a conference with just incredible people who are passionate about education and their job and and and moving them forward.
[00:04:08] Jeff: So, uh, that's, that's the part that I just, I love about it. And every single time we have a guest on, like, Trisha and I'll get done, and it, I'm just like, that was such a great conversation. Like my mind's just blown. How about you, Tricia? What's something that has been surprising for you?
[00:04:21] Tricia: I think, you know, sometimes in our research for finding guests and learning more about them and then reaching out, um, it has surprised me how sometimes, you know, we'll have somebody on who is like a renowned expert. Very, very well known. But they will appreciate an opportunity to talk further about their research.
[00:04:43] Tricia: Again, Olivia, to your point, you know, a book that maybe has even been out for like five years, the passion that they might still have in unpacking, talking further about that. For anybody who is sort of new to the podcasting space, sometimes a question that I get is, whoa, that person, that was amazing. How did you convince them?
[00:05:04] Tricia: You know that you lose the word convince. How did you convince them to come on the show? And my advice is for somebody who's listening and you're thinking of starting a a podcast, don't underestimate, especially folks who are in this educational space. We want to discuss and explore our work because I would say often when you come to them from that place of like, I really, I appreciate, I know what you do.
[00:05:27] Tricia: I want to learn more about it. I want to introduce more people to it. People can be very, very generous with their time. So, um, you know, even if you're a new podcaster, if there's somebody whose work you've admired for years, hey, take that opportunity. Reach out to them and let them know what their work has meant to you and why you'd like to host them.
[00:05:46] Tricia: Now, having said that, you know, I'm going to do the thing that's sort of like, oh, you know, nobody likes this question pointing to the one episode or the one guest. Um, but for anybody who is listening, and maybe they're new to your show, Olivia, what's an episode that you might recommend? Maybe they start with this one because this was an episode or an interview that, you know, even like five years from now, you're not going to forget having that conversation.
[00:06:11] Olivia: It was hard to pick one, obviously. Um, but one that really sticks out is with a student. She’s 15 years old. Her name's Olivia Van Ledtje, and she speaks internationally, and she published the book Spark Change: Making Your Mark in a Digital World. Her knowledge of using social media to get messaging across.
[00:06:33] Olivia: She taught me about hashtags. And the way she balances life is insane to me. She's a prima ballerina. And so I think I draw inspiration most as a teacher from students. And yes, bouncing ideas off of grownups, but the kids just show up, man. And she got me. I actually first saw her speak years ago at an NCTE conference.
[00:07:01] Olivia: And I think the relationship she has with her mom as a digital crew, she calls it, uh, how we can use grownups to help students understand just being safe out there, yet taking risks and not being scared to put yourself out there. So that interview really sticks with me.
[00:07:19] Jeff: And I, I will double that. Uh, if you ever get the chance to go listen to Olivia talk. If she's ever keynoting or doing a workshop at a conference, do not miss the opportunity, uh, to go see her. Here's a little fun fact. Are you ready for this? Back when, uh, I was the President & CEO of Eudora Learning, Olivia was a consultant to our company.
[00:07:40] Olivia: Come on!
[00:07:41] Jeff: Think about that. We hired her as a consultant to get this, um, kind of middle school teenage perspective on social media. and we learned so much. It was when TikTok was just coming out, and here's a bunch of, you know, 30 to 40-somethings talking with Olivia, and we're being schooled in social media. It was so fun!
[00:08:01] Jeff: Uh, don't miss an opportunity to go and see her and follow her on social media. She's doing incredible stuff. I mean, just the stuff she's doing as a ballerina is just insane to me, but.
[00:08:10] Olivia: It is, and I know she's launching her new site as well soon. It was coming out in the new year, so that's something to look forward to as well. She's incredible.
[00:08:18] Tricia: That's super exciting.
[00:08:20] Olivia: It is exciting. Jeff, how about you? What's an episode that sticks out to you?
[00:08:24] Jeff: Oh man, it is so tough. Um, I think that the thing too with podcasting that a lot of people need to remember if you want to start a podcast is don't start a podcast trying to get 10,000 downloads a month. Right. Which is like the golden thing. You, you start a podcast because you want to have conversations.
[00:08:44] Jeff: And I think for me, one of the things that I keep coming back to are the conversations that I didn't capture because they were the conversation before we hit record or the conversation after you finish. Olivia, you might know this, right? Like you, you, you hit, and then all of a sudden you're just chatting, and you're like, oh, why did I stop?
[00:09:02] Jeff: You know, it's a lot of times it's those conversations that remind you, but I think there's two episodes that I can point back to, and I, I'm sorry, I had to pick two. I had to pick an old one and a new one. But one of my favorites of all times, and it was one of those opportunities, is episode 72, which is The 4 Shift Protocol from Scott McLeod on Shifting Schools.
[00:09:20] Jeff: If you go back and listen to that, and, uh, Scott and I ended up at a conference together, and we just met in a vacant room at the conference. I set down my portable recorder, and I hit record, and it's the two of us just having a conversation with a microphone in the room over his 4 Shift Protocols.
[00:09:38] Jeff: And I was already using his 4 Shift Protocols with admin. But my mind, by the end of it, I was just blown away. Like to hear his depth, like you know, where they came up with it and all the different research that went into it, it was just incredible, so that's one that's always stuck out with me, and I go back and listen to it whenever I go to work with leadership to remind me about it.
[00:09:57] Jeff: So it's just been good that way. And then I think one that's a fairly newer one would be episode 207 with John and Kyle Hattie. I mean, I've been following John Hattie's work as probably most educators have to be able to, like, I was so nervous for that. I'm like, what do I do? It's John Hattie on the other end of this microphone.
[00:10:14] Jeff: Like, I don't want, I don't want to mess up. And you know, it's like everybody else, just great, great people. And again, one of those issues where I wish I would've not hit end record so fast and been able to record some of the conversations we had that didn't make the airways because, again, you know, much like we talk about a conference, it's in the hallways. But those are probably my two episodes that really stick out for me.
[00:10:39] Jeff: All right, Tricia, your turn! What one or two episodes? Come on, Tricia. You've got so many different podcasts that you've been a part of over the years. Is it the Shifting Schools podcast, or is it…
[00:10:49] Tricia: I'm going to, I'm going to stick with Shifting Schools, and this is because this is one of the episodes that we put out, and a lot of other former colleagues reached out and said, Thank you so much for that. It was our conversation with Swapna Krishna, who is a science communicator as part of our future of work mini-series, and Swapna has her own YouTube, uh, channel with PBS.
[00:11:11] Tricia: It's all about space. She writes for Wired. And she was talking a lot about how she got her column at Wired, you know, writing about video games and that she loves gaming, and she was really looking at that space and thinking, what is my unique take? What's my voice going to be in that space? And then she was also talking about learning to write for video when she had her YouTube series come out.
[00:11:37] Tricia: And really was just sort of talking about all the different types of writing that she has had to teach herself to do because, unfortunately, often when we're talking about teaching writing, we are still like sad music trombone, talking way too much about the five-paragraph essay and not talking about what a modern writer is doing, and she gives so many different examples of what she had to teach herself and what it has enabled her to do.
[00:12:06] Tricia: She also talks about that intersection of being able to be a solid communicator and understanding the science right, and that I, I think that really resonated with people because of the pandemic and this need to have clear information that's engaging and is again, steeped in research. So a lot of folks reached out and said, thank you so much for that episode.
[00:12:28] Tricia: She does a great job of driving home that message. What would it mean to help students learn to write for video? Learn to write for themselves as presenters because it is a totally different skill. Um, and I think she just offers a lot of insight there that for anybody who teaches writing and literacy, it's sort of a yes. This is some of the stuff that needs to be part of our curriculum, um, and will be very engaging because students, I think, are thinking about what might some of these potential pathways be in the new world of media. Um, you know, often when-
[00:13:08] Jeff: Before you go, I'm going to push you because you have another podcast, Be a Better Ally, and seeing that this episode's all about podcasts. What's your favorite from Be a Better Ally podcast?
[00:13:17] Tricia: Oh, my goodness. That's tough. Um, I'm going to give a shout-out to Kathleen Naglee, who's a head of school I've had on several times because I think a lot of leaders will come to me when I'm working with them on LGBTQ+ inclusion, and they'll be like, I just don't know what to do. And I'm often like, here is a head of school who is leading.
[00:13:37] Tricia: Not just in terms of what she is saying, but what she is doing. And often, um, you know, it's sort of like, let me pass the mic, just hear from ahead of school herself. And that, um, to this day still, I'm now over that milestone of over a hundred episodes. My very first conversation with her is still the most streamed, most downloaded.
[00:13:57] Tricia: Um, so I, I think again, leaders sometimes just being able to hear from other leaders who really mean it, like they really do want to strive for more inclusion in schools.
[00:14:07] Jeff: Well, and what I love is, is. , you started podcasting. You found her, the two of you have become friends, and not that you weren't friends before you started podcasting, but now that's led to another podcast that it's just you and her, right? Uh, Unhinged?
[00:14:23] Tricia: It’s the Unhinged Collaboration Podcast. It's true. And we've actually, we've never been in the same physical space, so it’s wild!
[00:14:28] Jeff: I know. Isn't that crazy?
[00:14:29] Tricia: Yeah. So even I, you know what you were saying, Jeff, about a podcast being your professional learning, it totally builds your network. Like Olivia, I'm willing to bet, too, in your journey, you've got somebody who was an interview to start with, and now maybe you're still chatting with them, collaborating.
[00:14:44] Olivia: It's been fascinating because it, it's such a humble experience as well. Jeff, when you mentioned John Hattie, I get so nervous sometimes when I reach out to someone and then they say yes! First of all, you see the email, you're like, Oh my gosh. But the nerves and I continue to pinch myself, the conversations I've had, but I feel like each episode makes me think of other topics as well.
[00:15:11] Olivia: I have a whole running list now of different things I'm experiencing when I'm in schools. And I think it's also lovely to give authors an opportunity to say what they would change now if they could go back and add to their books. I know Cornelius Minor my sticks out with his book, We Got This. I still use the book, read it all the time, but during his interview, he did share, you know, he'd go back, and he'd caution us that times are really treacherous right now, more than ever, and how to proceed.
[00:15:43] Olivia: He also taught me that in consulting, plan on losing some work if you're true to yourself. And that was something I had never even thought of before. I think in consulting, you want to please school districts that you're committed to and working with, and yet it's that fine line of how do I stand for what I believe in?
[00:16:02] Olivia: So that's been fascinating, that journey.
[00:16:05] Jeff: Yeah. That's a really good point. And I think one of my favorite things is, and I'm sure you've done this too, where like you're consulting with a school district, and you find a teacher who's doing something amazing in their classroom, and so then you like grab them at lunchtime. You're like, so I've got this podcast.
[00:16:18] Jeff: And I really, and they're like, you have what you want me to do what? I don't know how to podcast. Like you don't have to podcast. I just ask you questions. You answer 'em. You're an incredible teacher. I, we need to get this out. It's like I'm constantly, whenever I'm out, I'm just like, so here's my card, but gimme your email.
[00:16:31] Jeff: You're going to get email from me.
[00:16:32] Tricia: And I'm glad you talked about Olivia, this idea of your values as a consultant. And I think, again, as podcasters, we're also thinking about our vision for what we're doing because it is a platform. Right? So I'm curious. I love, love, love listening to podcasts. Like I've been a big fan of the medium for a long time now.
[00:16:50] Tricia: Are there other shows that have sort of inspired the work that you're doing?
[00:16:54] Olivia: Yeah, I see. I listen to such a variety of podcasts because most of my school districts are about a two-hour drive away. And I would say one of the first podcasts that got me at my soul was Nice White Parents. And just having the inequities brought forth with schools and the role that caregivers can play.
[00:17:17] Olivia: It was gobsmacking to me, even though I knew it existed. Just to have it named. And I use that podcast’s transcripts, uh, wise to have school districts really unpack, you know, what do we believe to be true when it comes to PTA and how our families are involved in schools? I would say a second podcast that I listen to tried and truly is PEBC's Phenomenal Teaching Podcast because so many folks that I've been inspired by and learned from have interviews that I continuously go back to.
[00:17:49] Olivia: So those are two. And then, one of my favorite podcasts out there is Heavyweight. And I just think the way that Jonathan tells stories and lives as a host, but yet a segway or a path between mending fractured relationships. Um, so many issues we see in education are a fracture somewhere, and I think the way he navigates the conversation is brilliant.
[00:18:17] Olivia: So those are a few of my favs.
[00:18:19] Tricia: That’s a great show, and I think it's coming back for another season soon, too, so thanks for the the reminder of that. Jeff, what about you? Anything that's sort of, um, again, podcast listening that's really informed your approach to being a podcaster?
[00:18:33] Jeff: Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question, and I think for me, uh, the problem becomes, I start listening to podcasts to figure out how to better the podcast. Much like you said, Olivia, most of my podcast listening, honestly, is outside of education, and I'm constantly listening, and one of the things that I love is, I mean, whatever we're at now, 250 plus episodes here at Shifting Schools. You can go back, and you can almost hear the different influences from other podcasts; as we've changed the intro music, we've changed the way we ask questions, we've changed the way that we structure it, and almost all of that stuff has been influenced by other podcasts. I would say my number one podcast is TWIT (This Week in Tech). I've been listening to that podcast since 2005.
[00:19:19] Jeff: Um, I mean, it's like one of the original podcasts out there with Leo Laporte. It's a tech podcast. It's not focused on education. And I use it a lot to think about, okay, what is happening? What are these professionals talking about that's happening in our world with tech? How is that already, or how is that going to in the future influence education?
[00:19:38] Jeff: And I think listening to podcasts like that have really helped me stay on the edge from an ed tech standpoint, from an educational technology standpoint of just knowing like what are the conversations that these businesses, these writers and journalists are having? Where do they see the future going? And then how do I take that and help schools understand where is this headed and why is this important?
[00:20:01] Jeff: Um, because a lot of times, you know, they're talking about stuff six months before we'd even heard of it. They're talking about ChatGPT, you know, like, here it comes, and then next thing you know, it blows up education, uh, you know, and we're in the thick of having these conversations around what to do with it. And everything else to follow.
[00:20:17] Jeff: Um, but I just, you know, I, I'm constantly listening for the way they do intros. Another way they break up interviews, and it's just a constant, uh, it's a constant learning curve. It's great. Like I just, I mean, I'm such an audio person, I just geek out on, all on it. But I think TWIT’s probably the one I've been listening to that back when an iPod was actually an iPod with a wheel.
[00:20:36] Jeff: I mean, that thing's been around. Yeah, it was great. How about you, Tricia? You listened to so many podcasts. I bet you're going to list half of 'em that are in Spotify.
[00:20:44] Tricia: I, yeah, I am a, a long-time admirer of like the art and craft of podcasting, and there's two podcasters that I'll mention. The first is Manoush Zomorodi, who's hosted a bunch of shows. She's currently the host of, um, Ted Radio Hour. Um, also was the original host of IRL and had another podcast called ZigZag Pod, who she co-hosted with her then-business partner.
[00:21:09] Tricia: Their last and final season was like this interactive podcasting experience where folks could listen. They could send messages in, and they also had these weekly like diary prompts. So it was all about if you're at a place in your career where you're not sure what to do next. She took people on a journey.
[00:21:29] Tricia: Um, it was just an amazing, amazing season. So that's ZigZag their last and final. If you are at that place like a career crossroads, I honestly have recommended it to so many people at that place. And every single time, they're like, that was exactly what I needed. Um, but Manoush is a great storyteller. Um, the other podcaster is Bridget Todd.
[00:21:49] Tricia: She's actually taken over for IRL and also is co-hosting a show called Internet Hate Machine and has another show called, There Are No Girls on the Internet. So Bridget's work looks at the intersection of just what's going on in popular culture, what's going on in online spaces, and what's happening, uh, politically.
[00:22:07] Tricia: Um, you know, how does an issue that's happening online, like certain news stories, you'll notice I didn't even want to know about that thing, but why do I know so much about it? Uh, she's got, great experts. But the thing that I feel like she has taught me as a listener is even though she's super knowledgeable if you listen to one of her episodes, she just has this insatiable curiosity.
[00:22:29] Tricia: Um, and I think her appreciation for the expertise that a guest is bringing to the show is amazing. So again, I think she's just a great model of podcasts have a lot to teach us, and as a podcaster, you also have a lot to learn too. So Olivia, anything coming up on your show this season that you want to tell listeners to watch out for?
[00:22:54] Olivia: I think the episode, um, I was so honored to even be in conversation with this person. Um, her name's Jill Macfarlane. And she has worked at a place called The Sharing Place for 21 years in Salt Lake City, Utah. And they help families and their children navigate explaining death when they've lost one of their people.
[00:23:14] Olivia: They started an outreach program in schools, and so we have a conversation, and what continues to just impress me endlessly is her ability to explain really, really challenging situations in kids-sized explanations that I think adults will greatly appreciate hearing. So I'm super psyched.
[00:23:37] Jeff: What, what's kind of your hope for your podcast? What's the goal? What are you trying to do?
[00:23:40] Olivia: Just continue to find solutions for issues I'm seeing in education. Um, you know, I'm interviewing Julie Wright soon around RtI and What's Our Response? I think there are patterns in education that there may never be a concrete easy fix for, but I would say just to continue connecting people and asset-based mindset. Like, let's find ways of figuring this out together instead of just admiring the problems. I’m over admiring problems. We've done that long enough.
[00:24:14] Tricia: Yeah.
[00:24:16] Jeff: That's a good way to put it. I like that.
[00:24:17] Tricia: Jeff, what are your thoughts? Uh, something that you're looking forward to, or you want to talk a little bit about your vision for Shifting Schools Pod?
[00:24:25] Jeff: I honestly, Tricia, I'm trying to think like, that's why I wanted to ask the question. I don’t know what the vision is. You know, we, we are constantly, I feel like adapting. We're constantly trying to, um, I guess twofold, meet the needs of listeners and educators, much like Olivia is saying. But at the same time, Tricia, we like to do things that fill our own bucket, you know?
[00:24:46] Jeff: Right now, we're in the middle of a STEM Makerspace learning series, and we were just like, this would be so cool to be able to talk to these people. I love doing the mini-series thing. Uh, I think it allows us to focus for a small amount of time, you know, four to six episodes; we get to focus in on early learning or STEM or workplace environments.
[00:25:03] Jeff: And it's this quick hit, a month-long focus, and hopefully, that allows other listeners to do the same. To your point, Olivia, there's so many things out there. How do we just quickly focus in on this one thing, think about it, think about solutions for that one thing, and then let's try to tackle the next thing.
[00:25:20] Jeff: So I, I like that moving forward. I, I hope listeners do. Um, but it, I think that's something that is a little bit different and maybe special for Shifting Schools that we can, we can continue to do going forward. How about you, Trisha, and all the podcasts you do?
[00:25:33] Tricia: Well, um, the Unhinged Collaboration Podcast, which is like the youngest of my podcasts- something that we are trying to do more intentionally when we're talking about the art and craft of collaboration in schools. My co-host and I also are looking at outside of the realm of education; where can we go to learn about collaboration?
[00:25:56] Tricia: Because I think sometimes we almost get too hyper-focused within our own ecosystems, and we forget other models might have a lot to teach us. So we recently had a musicologist on the show. He's sort of an expert in jazz as well as the Beatles, and he wrote a book about, um, different bands and different collaborative sort of ways of being.
[00:26:17] Tricia: And he talks about. The Beatles had this total like shared leadership model that was kind of baked into their recipe right from the beginning. Um, and he talked about in jazz with Duke Ellington, there's a model (I had never heard about this before) called decentralized collaboration.
[00:26:34] Tricia: Which is much more like: Let's all go at this in our own way and then see what comes from that. And he actually pointed me to another book that's all about how the movie The Wizard of Oz, how the movie script was written. I didn't know this before, but apparently, they had signed up ten screenwriters to work on it. And it was like 10 of you are going to, you know, translate the book into a movie.
[00:27:00] Tricia: Go. And it was like, you're not necessarily going to have a shared vision, but let's see what comes out of that. So anyway, um, yeah, we're going to be kind of looking to see what lessons are there for folks working in schools that don't necessarily come from the world of education. So I'm kind of excited about that.
[00:27:19] Tricia: But, uh, it was so, it was so great to touch base with you, Olivia, and, and Jeff, you and I don't always, um, talk about like our influences in podcasting, so I, I really appreciated that. Listeners, if there's a podcast that you listen to that you're thinking Olivia, Jeff, or myself we should be influenced by, or you think we'd appreciate it based on what we're currently listening to, please do reach out to us.
[00:27:41] Tricia: Olivia, how would you like folks to reach out to you?
[00:27:44] Olivia: Listeners can find me at my website, www.oliviawahl.com, or via email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. I can't wait to hear their ideas and suggestions!
[00:27:57] Tricia: Jeff, do you want people to send you a paper airplane, or what's your preferred mode of communication right now?
[00:28:03] Jeff: Yeah, a satellite signal would be great. Um, no, you can find me at jeff@shiftingschools.com. Always happy to get emails, uh, bounce off any ideas. I've been getting a lot of emails lately around ChatGPT. Uh, what are we supposed to do with this? Um, I'm sure every consultant and educator right now is having that same thing.
[00:28:22] Jeff: So, um, I'm excited to just kind of see where the future goes with it. Um, and we'll be more episodes here on Shifting Schools about that as well. But yeah, jeff@shiftingschools.com or @jutecht, anywhere on social media.
[00:28:32] Tricia: Great.
[00:28:33] Jeff: How about you, Tricia?
[00:28:33] Tricia: I love that we have our SpeakPipe button on the Shifting School's homepage. So I've noticed in my WhatsApp friendship groups we've all seem to move to like sending each other voicemail. Um, so yeah, hit us up with a voice memo via Shifting Schools.com. You'll see that nice big orange button.
[00:28:51] Tricia: I'd love to, I'd love to hear from folks.
[00:28:55] Jeff: Well, thank you, Olivia. Tricia, it's always a pleasure. It's always great to just take an episode every once in a while, and I feel like just reflect, you know, what has podcasting meant to you? What's this journey been like? Uh, think about some of those episodes that we all had, the honor to speak with amazing guests and, and how they've impacted us.
[00:29:09] Jeff: So, uh, thank you both for being here. Olivia, thank you so much, uh, for all you're doing with educators and education as well. Um, so, uh, really appreciate it. Thanks.
[00:29:20] Olivia: Right back atcha. Thank you. Take care.