Schoolutions – S2 E37: Maracujá: Giving Kids the Time and Space to Discover Who They Are with Rebekah Macden

[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am humbled to welcome my guest today, one of the most dynamic international educators I know, Rebekah Macden.

[00:00:22] Olivia: Rebekah is a consultant, speaker, and writer. She is a visionary, an innovative educator with 18 years of experience. In those 18 years, she has developed and implemented student-centered programs that have had a transformative effect on students' lives and educational journeys. Most recently, Rebekah has taken on the role of a Speaker Advocate Coach with the Lisa Nichols Companies.

[00:00:49] Olivia: In this role, she works with clients around the globe to find and unlock their voice and confidence in speaking and sharing their stories. As a fierce advocate for joy, purpose, and identity. Rebekah's mission is to transform the world of education by empowering others to find their unique voices and walk in true freedom.

[00:01:11] Olivia: It is my honor to welcome you, Rebekah, as a guest on Schoolutions.

[00:01:16] Rebekah: Ahhhh! Thank you so much, Olivia.

[00:01:18] Olivia: I am so excited to have you. Yeah.

[00:01:20] Rebekah: Thank you. Wow. What an awesome introduction. Thank you so much. It's, um, such an honor to be on your podcast. I've been listening to your podcast, and we've already had a chance to connect before, and so I'm so excited about today. So thank you for having me.

[00:01:34] Olivia: Yeah, absolutely. I've been looking forward to seeing you all day, and I have to give a disclaimer that I was introduced to you and your brilliance, uh, by Tricia Friedman, the host of the Be a Better Ally podcast. I listened to Episode 91. It was an interview with you, um, advanced The Agenda of Joy with Rebekah (you), and it rocked my world.

[00:01:55] Rebekah: Aw.

[00:01:56] Olivia: Um, shout out to Tricia for connecting us.

[00:02:00] Rebekah: Yes! Huge shout out to Tricia. She's such an incredible human.

[00:02:03] Olivia: She is indeed, for many reasons, and podcast host of many different shows. So I don't know how she juggles everything she does. She's incredible. I love to kick off every episode by asking my guests who an inspiring educator is from their life. Would you share with listeners?

[00:02:18] Rebekah: Yeah, sure. So, um, I am so fortunate to have many educators that come to mind in the past and educators I know currently, but one who I just have to give a shout-out to is my dear friend and a former colleague of mine. Her name is Nicole Engstrom, and she is, she's actually also the co-creator of Maracujá, which I know we're gonna get into in a bit, but Nicole is just one of those educators where she just like exudes inspiration and passion into everything that she does.

[00:02:53] Rebekah: She just pours her heart into her students, into the work that she does. I mean, she'll do a writing unit and have kids in tears because they're so moved by their own stories, and she just has this incredible way of connecting on a heart level with parents, students, other colleagues. You know, she's just one of those educators that you're like, I wanna be like you when I grow up.

[00:03:15] Rebekah: So yeah, she's, she's definitely someone who stands out to me.

[00:03:19] Olivia: Fabulous. Well, and so an issue that I'm continuing to see in public education globally is that teachers do not feel seen. They do not feel heard by various layers of the public education system, and they're leaving the profession in droves. It's really disconcerting to me on many levels. Um, there's also, it feels like a lack of joy and true autonomy when it comes to teachers being trusted to make decisions that are in the best interests of their students versus a curricula option, making the choices and decisions or an administrator. Right?

[00:03:57] Olivia: So something that you just mentioned you created is Maracujá, which is the student-centered program that you developed with Nicole, and also just your influence as a speaker. Uh, it's transformative, and I had to have you as a person and your concepts, uh, the way you think about education and the necessity for every decision we make to be student-centered.

[00:04:25] Rebekah: Yeah.

[00:04:25] Olivia: You are the solution, Rebekah. And I need more people to meet you, to learn about your work, and just to hear your brilliance. So, I want you to start, if you don't mind, by explaining to listeners what is Maracujá and how has your mission with this approach evolved as you've done the work across the globe.

[00:04:46] Rebekah: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love even in you saying you're the solution. I genuinely believe that, but not only because I believe that about myself, but I believe that about each and every one of us. I look at it as the word soul-ution. Like you, when you know your soul and you're moving from a place from within yourself of a true knowing of your identity, who you are and what you truly bring to the world as educator, a parent, um, whether we're talking about the students in our classroom, whoever you might be, when you are moving from a place of deep knowing within your soul, you are a soul-ution to your surrounding world and whatever's going on.

[00:05:25] Olivia: Absolutely.

[00:05:27] Rebekah: So, Maracujá is essentially giving kids the time and space to discover who they are. Our mission statement is actually: we prioritize giving time and space for learners to discover, study, and understand themselves as an academic subject. And we do that through the lens or through the process of exploring personal interests, curiosities, and passions.

[00:05:53] Rebekah: It's the answer to the question when, and I'm sure you've thought this, or you've heard this, but you know the question of: Why didn't we learn that in school? My hope, my mission, my whole vision with Maracujá is that it would be one of the answers to that question. That we can say in relation to emotional intelligence, personal development, you know, all of these really essential self and social awareness skills that we often are saying, well, why don't kids learn that in schools?

[00:06:22] Rebekah: Well, Maracujá is that. Um, it's a program where we give kids that opportunity to discover those things and to develop themselves for who they are beyond just that student in that classroom at that time.

[00:06:35] Olivia: And we know as humans, we are ever-evolving. And so I love the stance that it also offers inquiry and exploration. That this is a journey. So I'd love for listeners to understand what the exploration activities involved look, feel, and sound like.

[00:06:55] Rebekah: Yeah. So I'll tell you a little bit about how Maracujá originally started. So we started ten years ago, and we first began it as more of like a passion learning and open-ended, like pursue the things that you're curious about, learn about the things that you're interested in. Um, but that has quickly evolved to now where the focus is; it’s character-centered.

[00:07:18] Rebekah: And then the lens through which you're learning about yourselves comes through exploring those things. So the focus is less on the learning of those passions and those curiosities but more on learning yourself. There's four stages in Maracujá and, and in the largest portion of the program, it's the exploration stage where kids are able to explore music or web design, fashion design, animals, you know, just a whole range of whatever you know, they might be interested in.

[00:07:46] Rebekah: There's really, honestly, no limits besides just budgetary or space. Like we're not gonna be able to bring in horses necessarily. Um, but really giving kids an opportunity to pursue something that they are interested in or passionate about.

[00:08:02] Rebekah: And then from that place, diving into what naturally starts to happen and what we saw in the program and why we started to shift the focus of the program is that we saw topics like patience, resilience, time management, uh, communication through conflict, having to overcome fears, like, I'm really passionate about this, but I'm scared to share this with others. Just, you know, various fears that come up. Or the natural byproduct, which is so powerful is the building of the student's personal confidence and self-worth.

[00:08:37] Rebekah: Learning to identify and regulate their own emotions to know more about who they are and how they're showing up. And then, as a result of that, what you naturally start to see happen is the community is built so strongly because as students start to know, and it's true for all of us, as we know more of who we are individually, it's so much easier to extend a hand extend, understanding, compassion, grace to someone else for where they're at.

[00:09:07] Rebekah: Because you're on your own journey and you understand that the journey involves. The valleys and the mountaintops. It, it's the whole process. Um, so it looks like kids working on multiple different areas. Some might be doing something related with music.

[00:09:25] Rebekah: It sounds like kids working with mentors. We have, we bring in mentors who are there to guide students, not to necessarily instruct them on the topic, because remember, the focus isn't that they come out of that learning how to play the guitar, for example. The focus is that they come out of that learning, knowing more about who they are.

[00:09:43] Rebekah: So we have mentors who are trained in questioning them, in how to get them to a deeper place of understanding. Honestly, there's a buzz in the whole school; kids know they're excited. They do not wanna be sick on the Maracujá days. They are excited to show up. One of the greatest compliments I received was from one of my administrators who said, honestly, when we do Maracujá, that's the time that we have no behavior problems.

[00:10:09] Rebekah: And what's so powerful…

[00:10:11] Olivia: That speaks volumes.

[00:10:13] Rebekah: It's so powerful because yeah, like when you open the door for kids to really explore something that, not only that they love, but they're really actually having a chance to understand themselves. Then it, eventually, it seeps into the rest of the school day, the rest of the school week in all the other core academic areas.

[00:10:31] Rebekah: As you're building confidence and as you're allowing kids to understand resilience and patience and problem solving, it obviously is gonna seep into when you're teaching math when you're teaching reading, et cetera, you know, so it's, it's incredible. It's powerful.

[00:10:47] Olivia: I thought of you a few weeks ago. Taylor Swift received the Innovator Award at the iHeartRadio Awards, and her speech was so in line with what you are just speaking to around resilience and the choices we make. 

[00:11:04] Olivia: She's receiving the award. She walks up on the stage, and these are her words: But I do want to say that the thing with these exciting nights and moments, and specifically this award that I'm so lucky to have gotten, is they're shining a light on the choices I made that worked out. Right? And then she continues: …the ones that turned out to be good ideas. But I really, really want everyone to know, especially young people, that the hundreds or thousands of dumb ideas that I've had are what led me to my good ideas. You have to give yourself permission to fail. I try as hard as I can, not to fail because it's embarrassing. But I give myself permission to, and you should too. So go easy on yourselves and just make the right choices that feel right for you, and someone, one day,might think you've been innovative.

[00:12:00] Rebekah: Mmm. Wow. That's awesome. 

[00:12:03] Olivia: Right? So, and when I heard you speak to this before, you speak to the idea of it's incredibly important that we experience and overcome fear and failure to really know who we are.

[00:12:17] Olivia: So can you speak to that, why you also see that as a critical factor?

[00:12:22] Rebekah: Yeah. You know, I think in my own personal life, it's in the valleys of fear and failure that I've learned the absolute most about who I am. That's really when I'm stripped from everything that I can so easily be distracted by when I'm on the mountaintop, and I can see the whole picture. Because in the valley it's when I'm like, okay, what do I have?

[00:12:44] Rebekah: What tools do I have with me? Who's around me? What's within me that's gonna allow me to get out of this valley? It's when I am truly, truly strengthened to be who I am. So I think we have a tendency to always strive, like, you know, Taylor was saying to always strive to be on the mountaintops and just go jump from mountaintop to the next mountaintop.

[00:13:04] Rebekah: But it's really in the valleys, which are just natural. They're not even a negotiable thing in life. Like we are going to walk through valleys. We are gonna experience low points, which includes failures, rejections, our own internal fears, and limiting beliefs that we have. And it's in those places when we have the courage to say; I’m committing to myself. I’m not abandoning myself in this valley.

[00:13:31] Rebekah: I'm not gonna chase myself out of this, but I'm gonna really, truly sit here and say, what is it that I need to learn in this valley? Because I'm gonna be able to add that to my toolkit, and it's gonna be something that's gonna allow me to experience that joy even greater. And that's why one of the reasons I even say I'm a fierce advocate for joy is because I also know the depths of the wells of tears that I've had of the pain, the rejection, the lack of feeling like I belonged.

[00:14:02] Rebekah: And so from that place of now finding that within, I'm a very fierce advocate for joy because it includes knowing the depths, it includes knowing all the aspects of who you are. And when you know that, you can walk fearlessly through life with courage, with so much more confidence into whatever you're called into.

[00:14:28] Olivia: And I feel too, like the profession of teaching in general, there's this competitive edge that comes with it; of where it can be as basic as the door decorating contests to how we set our classrooms up, uh, to (right?)… to Pinterest-o-rama. Um, but it also is around the ability to take risks safely. And so yes, what you're speaking to is student-centered, but I think we also need to look at how this work is adult-centered.

[00:15:03] Rebekah: Yeah.

[00:15:04] Olivia: …as well in the fact that if we want our children to be evolved and take risks and truly know who they are, then we have to be safe as adults to do that same thing in our own schools all over the globe. 

[00:15:18] Rebekah: Yes. Yes.

[00:15:18] Olivia: So something you said that I found so beautiful is confidence and experiencing failure, being connected, which you've already spoken to a bit, but also how experiencing and being confident within ourselves allows us space to celebrate others.

[00:15:38] Olivia: I don't see that enough. Can you speak to that point?

[00:15:41] Rebekah: Yes. Yes. I mean, uh, I, I don't know if we have enough time for to, cause I am so passionate about this. I'm so passionate about this because I've spent a big portion of my life dealing with crippling insecurity, and from that insecurity, what naturally happens is you compare yourself to others. Others can sometimes feel like a threat because we have a tendency to try and see where do I match.

[00:16:05] Rebekah: We're driven by our own insecurities to find where we fit. And when we can actually tap into who we truly are, then our capacity to celebrate others naturally increases as well. And so I often use actually this analogy of building a home. Let's say that we are both building homes next to each other, and you have worked closely with the architect in, in bringing the vision of what your dream home is into fruition, and you're working on that.

[00:16:35] Rebekah: And I've done the same with my architect. We've come up with this incredible vision that matches who I am. Then whatever you are doing with your home, it doesn't feel like a competition. It doesn't feel like a threat because you are doing what makes sense and fits you. And if anything, what we're actually able to do is like, oh my gosh, I love that you did this.

[00:16:55] Rebekah: How did you do that? Can you share some of those thoughts? Can you share some of those ideas? Maybe I'll do the same thing. And then we see some areas where we're like, that I, that's not what I would do, but I love that for her because that fits Olivia, and I love that. And so when you truly understand your own vision, and what you are building and the tools and the materials that you have for you, then there is no lack, and you're not operating from a place of lack, but you're operating from a place of abundance and overflow that I can offer and extend to you.

[00:17:26] Rebekah: And likewise you to me, because we aren't operating from lack. Our baseline isn't insecurity. It’s self-worth, it's security. It's our secure identity. And from there, it is just limitless. Like it's just incredible to be able to pour into others.

[00:17:43] Olivia: It is. And I find too, just as a person these days, as a human walking this earth, that I am really focusing on connecting with other people and friends that do that exact thing. Where we never hesitate to lift each other up. We never hesitate on a day that I may not feel super cute, I have at least three friends that I'll see, and they're like, God, you, you're bringing it today.

[00:18:11] Olivia: Really just taking a moment to say, you're amazing and this is why. I see you. I see your effort and your work. And those are the people I wanna hang out with, um, just in general. And again, Rebekah, you're one of those humans.

[00:18:25] Rebekah: Thank you! I, I feel the same about you, Olivia. I really do. I love that. And one of the things that you said actually reminded me of something else that is so powerful about knowing who you are, is when I know who I am, and I have such a sense of self-worth, not from a place of arrogance, but just truly knowing the things that are my strengths.

[00:18:47] Rebekah: The things that are the areas that I'm still growing through. Then I'm not reliant on anyone else in what they say, both negative or positive. So the positive things it's like an addition to what I already believe about myself to be true. And again, not from a place of arrogance, but I do know that I'm resilient because I've been with myself through those valleys.

[00:19:08] Rebekah: So anyone adding to that or pointing that out or giving me an award or putting me in a room where I never thought I would be speaking in front of thousands, like any of that, it's like a cherry on top. And so it doesn't move me or break me, and likewise, the negatives as well. They may hurt in sting for a while, but it also isn't part of my core of who I believe I am.

[00:19:29] Rebekah: I know.

[00:19:30] Olivia: I do, and I would say the way that you define identity and belonging, when I was listening to you speak with Tricia…I pulled over to be super safe, of course, and I started to jot down some of the sentence stems you use. Because this, to me, gets at the core of our own identity that you're speaking to. And a couple of those were: How do we show up when others are around? When no one is around?

[00:19:58] Olivia: And that place we get stuck in where it's, I am a….whatever it is. I am a teacher. I am this. I am that. And then you paused, and you said, But wait: Who am I if I am not that? That thing we identify by? And a couple of the other pieces you said: Do we show interest in knowing others' multiple passions and interests, their highs and lows?

[00:20:25] Olivia: Because a conversation I continue to circle back with really effective leaders, effective speakers, effective humans in general, is we have to know each other's highs and lows and truly be interested in hearing about them instead of all the sugar coating. So speak a bit to those sentence stems because your narratives around those weren't quite beautiful.

[00:20:50] Rebekah: Yeah, so you know, when I talk about identity, we have this understanding of our identity, which is often our external identity, our social identity, and that is actually very important. Very, very, very essential that we talk about those external identity factors. But one of the pieces I feel that we often miss in the equation is our internal self-identities, and that's essentially like how we view ourselves within ourselves.

[00:21:17] Rebekah: How do we relate to ourselves? Like how do we view our own personal value worth and purpose on this earth? And a lot of times those internal identity factors, I mean, they're created by our beliefs that we have within ourselves. And oftentimes, we're not even aware of the beliefs that we have because they were messaging that we've been receiving.

[00:21:38] Rebekah: And, in fact, research has shown that most of our internal beliefs about who we are have been formed by the age of seven. Which is why it's so important that we're doing this work with students, right? And so all the messaging that we receive from the world around us and even our own interpretations of events and things that have happened start to form the beliefs that we have about ourselves within ourselves.

[00:22:01] Rebekah: And so then, unless we are willing to go into some of those deeper areas, which initially can feel very messy, very scary, but until we're willing to do that, we tend to then identify with those things like, I'm a teacher, I'm a mom, I'm a sister, I am a blah, blah, blah, whatever it might be. Um, because that's how the world sees us and we try to find the things that the world will also hopefully maybe celebrate the most.

[00:22:28] Rebekah: In the end, every one of us, we wanna be seen, we wanna be known, understood, and really truly valued. And so, we attach ourselves to those external identities. And it's not that any of those things are necessarily wrong, but the issue that comes with that is if any of those things fall, if any of those things change if they suddenly disappear.

[00:22:51] Rebekah: It shakes our entire understanding of our entire world and our entire living existence. If I'm no longer a teacher, then who am I? Like how? I've always been known as someone who contributes and who gives and who serves. Like now, who am I? You know, so the powerful thing about having a deeper internal knowing of who you are, regardless of the labels and the way the world sees us, is that you can show up whoever you are; however, you are, whenever you are with or without the external labels, and know with a deep knowing that you have an internal sense of belonging.

[00:23:27] Rebekah: And I even say, you know that true belonging is the safety and security of knowing that you are part of something greater than you alone, but also knowing that you are accepted even when you stand alone. So even when I'm alone, like when I lay my head on the pillow at night, do I know that I am home within myself? 

[00:23:50] Rebekah: And from there, I wanna bring this to our educators, to our students, because when we're operating from a place of, I know I'm home, then anything else adds to that. I'm a teacher as an overflow, I'm a sister, as an overflow, and my whole purpose and identity isn't wrapped around what could fade away, you know?

[00:24:12] Olivia: Yeah. And I love the idea of us being allowed, if that's the correct word, but being allowed to explore multiple passions. That it's not just one thing we love to do. As a person I love to sing. I took voice lessons I remember in high school, and it never went anywhere, but I still love to sing. I'm trying to teach myself how to play ukulele.

[00:24:36] Olivia: I love to paint, I love podcasting!

[00:24:38] Rebekah: Yeah.

[00:24:38] Olivia: Right? But these are all sings that if you ask someone that didn't really know me well, they may have no idea that those things are important. So I think that idea of how we choose to show up in the world. How do we create spaces? And that's exactly what Maracujá does, that it allows children to explore their passions.

[00:25:01] Olivia: And I think you said, like every six weeks or so, how long is this cycle when a child's exploring?

[00:25:08] Rebekah: So usually with schools, we aim for having the program, um, implemented within a school year, like from starting in October. So that doesn't mean that we're just officially starting October, but we really look at August, September as like establishing relationships, establishing routines, procedures, starting to build that classroom community so that when we launch in October, there's already a sense of, uh, this is community.

[00:25:33] Rebekah: And so then each of the stages, we, we have a loose guideline for about how long each stage should be. But we also really encourage educators to kind of follow and flow with what's happening with their students.

[00:25:47] Olivia: So, how much time does this take out of a day? Out of a week? Making sure that it's not something added to the schedule…

[00:25:55] Rebekah: Yeah.

[00:25:55] Olivia: …but it is what is driving our children being the purposeful people we want them to be.

[00:26:01] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. So, I should be clear that this is right now an elementary program. With Maracujá, it's one hour a week. It's not an add-on to the school day. It's really taking everything that we want to see in our kids in all of the academic areas anyways and giving the time and space for that to really explicitly be explored in the character skills.

[00:26:22] Olivia: And I want listeners to also understand that this is not just happening in the United States…

[00:26:27] Rebekah: Mm-hmm…

[00:26:27] Olivia: …this is happening across the world. So where have you been doing the most work with Maracujá and how is it adopted differently in different parts of the world?

[00:26:37] Rebekah: Yeah, so right now most of the work around Maracujá has been in Brazil, but that's where we started Marija 10 years ago. So it's continuing in schools in Brazil and then we also have a school in Belgium. They are implementing a version of Maracujá from third through sixth grade.

[00:26:55] Rebekah: And so we really worked on finding ways to build it for every grade level so that there's like more of an expansion around Maracujá and how they were really understanding how their own identity affects the world around them. So as each grade level added, we kind of increased their circle of influence in their community and how they were going to take what they were learning about themselves and bring it into almost like a service-in-action kind of form.

[00:27:24] Rebekah: So those are probably the two places in the world where we're working with Maracujá the most. This coming fall, we're starting to do some work with Maracujá, in several international schools. And now, here in the US as well, we have several schools. So it's really exciting. And you asked about, like, how does that look differently?

[00:27:41] Rebekah: I think we've worked hard to keep the core of the program around character and personal development. And I would say it's not so much how it looks different culturally, but maybe just the climate of the school and what their current needs are. So the kids in that particular school might be coming from refugee homes, or the various backgrounds that students are coming from affects like where we might spend more time in the program.

[00:28:13] Rebekah: We might be addressing various things. And that actually can be true with every school year, as you know. As a classroom teacher, one year, we're just talking about conflict resolution a lot more, or we're really just diving deep into patience or overcoming fears.

[00:28:29] Rebekah: So it's just really like learning how to be fluid and, and such an attentive, careful listener. And Cornelius said, and I was listening to your episode with him when he was talking about listening, not just physically with your ears, but really paying attention to the body language, the emotional language of your students, and knowing like, where are we going next?

[00:28:52] Rebekah: And being able to move fluidly in that program to meet those needs.

[00:28:57] Olivia: Absolutely. And I am so interested to know too, you’ve spoken to bringing in mentors and as children when they're trying to have a vision for their purpose and their passions, being able to ask someone else that's interested in that same thing… 

[00:29:16] Rebekah: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:16] Olivia: …what their peaks and valleys have been. So they can almost predict or avoid some obstacles or mistakes that were made. How do you choose who is going to come in and mentor the kids?

[00:29:28] Rebekah: Yeah. So as far as mentoring, the mentors oftentimes are usually parents, and it's like a volunteer basis type of thing. Sometimes it's other community volunteers or other staff members in the school who are able to volunteer during that time of Maracujá. And it's not so much like a selection process; it’s more of we have a training because we want them to feel equipped. 

[00:29:50] Rebekah: And we're really clear in the program that it's not teaching that particular passions and interests, but that you're actually working with kids on emotional and personal development. And so, as adults, a lot of us, we didn't grow up with that. 

[00:30:02] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:30:02] Rebekah: There's a lot of training of just like, what do you do? How do you approach kids? How do you question kids so that you are guiding them to where they need to go?

[00:30:10] Rebekah: And okay, now when you see a kid struggling, what do you do? How do you bring out resilience in that situation without just coming in to swoop in and save them? So a lot of training goes into helping the mentor feel equipped so that they know how to question and how to support students who are struggling or who are facing a challenging time.

[00:30:30] Rebekah: And I can tell you the mentors absolutely love it because they see the transformation. They get to see it right in front of their eyes. Kids transforming and really reflecting on things that we're like, whoa, I wish I would've known that when I was nine. You know?

[00:30:44] Olivia: Yeah, and something that you and I have chatted about, too, is we like that feeling of unease in a way, or the lack of predictability because it keeps us on edge. And I think it's interesting that we have that connection. And the other thing I absolutely think is incredible, um, these are your words. You said: We can't approach some of these things without having some sense of stability within ourselves.

[00:31:12] Olivia: So if we're trying to develop humans and children that are going out there and they're gonna take risks in the world…

[00:31:20] Rebekah: Mm-hmm…

[00:31:20] Olivia: …we also have to help them feel stable and have their feet planted. Although they can't predict everything that's going to happen, they also need to know that the choices they're making and that time of unrest is okay, and it helps them truly know who they are.

[00:31:39] Rebekah: Yeah.

[00:31:39] Olivia: And so, with that said, this work takes time. Right? And it's not something that can be rushed. And so, how does the time that school districts invest show what they value? I mean, you're saying some districts have been in this journey with you for ten years, right? So how can districts show what they care about?

[00:32:00] Rebekah: You know, I think. We're in this time right now in education, where we're seeing that we cannot afford to ignore that this is a need. We cannot, we literally just, we cannot afford any longer to hope that all of these things, as far as like self and social awareness and emotional understanding and regulation, are hopefully gonna be addressed by the parents or the church or the synagogue or the, or the teacher or next year's teacher.

[00:32:29] Rebekah: There's always someone else that is hopefully going to be covering that. And what I'm not advocating, I wanna be clear. I’m not advocating that we're gonna add this one more thing to the teacher alone. 

[00:32:41] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:32:41] Rebekah: I will say that again, I'm not advocating that we're adding one more thing to the teacher alone. But this is something as a whole, as educators.

[00:32:49] Rebekah: And you know, we can go into all of the flaws in our system of how we have people making decisions who aren't actually educators. But for the most part, if we, those of us who are in this and who are in positions of leadership.

[00:33:03] Rebekah: If we can push for the importance of this and also the understanding of it with parents who are receiving all kinds of messaging in media essentially against this kind of work to actually work with them and say: Hey, this is why this is so important. We are trying to equip students for beyond where we have them in this classroom. And when I'm working with educators, I always encourage them to look beyond the fifth grader in your classroom and really look at the human being. That is a human being.

[00:33:33] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:33:33] Rebekah: It's a human spirit that we have the opportunity to influence and impact for eight or nine months. That's who I'm looking at. And so I'm not just solely looking at this fifth grader who needs to meet these fifth-grade standards and so that I can get him to sixth grade. 

[00:33:49] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:33:49] Rebekah: And so if we as a whole are advocating for parents to understand that, for our leaders, to understand that for our educators, for anyone who works with kids, to understand that this is so incredibly important.

[00:34:01] Rebekah: Then we start intentionally creating time. So, you know, the school that I worked with in Belgium, we intentionally took time. Once we started seeing the effects of the program and how much it was changing students' behaviors, students’ outlook on school, their own outlook on it themselves, how it was changing culture within the classroom.

[00:34:21] Rebekah: We actually sat down and we looked at the schedule and we said, how do we intentionally incorporate this into the schedule for all the grade levels? And some people might say, oh, I don't know. That's too much. I mean, do you do that when the state requires you to do something different? You know, now we have to do this test.

[00:34:38] Rebekah: Okay, fine. We find a way. We find a way to make it happen. So whatever we value and prioritize, we find time for. And that is just a universal law.

[00:34:46] Olivia: Indeed.

[00:34:46] Rebekah: Whatever you value and prioritize, you will find time for, you will find resources for, you will find budget for. And again, I'm not saying this is all something to be on a teacher in their classroom alone, but that when, as a whole leadership, if people are really saying, this is something we value, then let's bring our heads together.

[00:35:06] Rebekah: Let's find where and how we make this happen. You know? And then we look at the data and we see it works.

[00:35:13] Olivia: And I'll make sure to include links to your site and and all of the resources you have that support this work. I also want to just say I actually see this as taking something off of teachers’ plates because I think many educators I am in communication with are extraordinarily frustrated about their students’ needs, not being met.

[00:35:40] Rebekah: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:40] Olivia: The emotional aspect of they don't have kids that are ready to sit and decode because they are not emotionally there. 

[00:35:48] Rebekah: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:48] Olivia: And this really helps us develop what you say is an inner peace. 

[00:35:53] Rebekah: Yeah. 

[00:35:53] Olivia: Um, right? And so then we can connect and be present in the world around us because we have that sense of calm. So lay it out for us. What's our call to action, Rebekah, when it comes to this work?

[00:36:06] Rebekah: You know, I, I would say three things. One is to commit to the journey of knowing you. In order to do this kind of work with your students, with your children, with your employees, your staff, you have to commit to doing the journey yourself. And that is, to me, one of the most exciting things. I often say the greatest adventure you can possibly go on is the adventure of discovering you.

[00:36:37] Rebekah: And that act of love of really, truly understanding who you are and understanding your own journey, the things that accelerate you as your strengths and the things that limit you as areas of weakness. When you understand those things, it literally changes everything in your life. It changes how you view your purpose, how you relate to others.

[00:36:57] Rebekah: And so that, that's the first step I would say, committing to being on that journey yourself. Learning more about how emotions aren't just froufrou things as we thought for many years. It's a neuroscience of how our brains actually work to keep us alive. We cannot separate emotions from our lives at all.

[00:37:19] Rebekah: It's the essential part of who we are. So that's the first thing, committing to the journey. And then the second thing is to invite and intentionally create time and space for others to be on that journey as well. To be able to cultivate their own stories without judgment and to cultivate a, a place within yourself that you are a safe space and that you're creating that safe space for others, whether it's your students or your staff or whatever.

[00:37:43] Rebekah: And then third, to then be a voice that advocates for this work to continue to be done, whether it's Maracujá or whether it's some other type of SEL work or emotional personal development work in schools. Be the voice that advocates for that. Push for sharing one of Olivia's podcast episodes around this or sharing an article, a video, or just sharing things to bring more awareness to the truth, especially right now when there isn't a lot of understanding around the value of this.

[00:38:13] Rebekah: Um, if you're in a leadership position, be someone who advocates for this to be a priority that isn't just thought of as at the beginning of the school year like, Hey, let's do a few fun things and establish relationship, and then never talk about these emotional skills for the rest of the year.

[00:38:28] Rebekah: No. We're gonna advocate for this to be integrated and prioritized. So I would say, yeah, those three things, committing, inviting, and then being a voice.

[00:38:38] Olivia: I love it. And what's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?

[00:38:42] Rebekah: Yeah, so my website is the best way to connect with me. Through my email info@rebekahmacden.com. You can also follow me on Twitter, Instagram, uh, and LinkedIn. And I absolutely love connecting with people. And if you're interested, just reach out. Let's keep these conversations going. And if you're interested in bringing this type of work to your school, I'd love to connect and just see what and how I can support you in this work.

[00:39:09] Rebekah: That's my heart. I've been a teacher for 18 years, and I know how much this work is needed, so I am so excited to support educators and school leaders in bringing this kind of work to their schools.

[00:39:22] Olivia: And you exude joy. You are an inspiration. So I want to end our conversation with one more quote that captures your work: Your work is uniquely designed to give students the time and space to discover and understand themselves as an academic subject. Through the process of exploring personal interests, curiosities, and passions, year after year, children's lives are transformed as they discover their worth and potential to impact their world.

[00:39:52] Olivia: Bravo, Rebekah.

[00:39:54] Rebekah: Oh, thank you.

[00:39:54] Olivia: Thank you for your time and effort to develop amazing humans for our world.

[00:39:59] Rebekah: Thank you so much, Olivia. It's been such an honor chatting with you. I absolutely loved it and I'm looking forward to the next time we can connect.

[00:40:06] Olivia: Me too. Take care, Rebekah. Thank you.

[00:40:09] Rebekah: Thank you, Olivia.

[00:40:12] Olivia: Schoolutions is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Rebekah Macden. Thanks to my older son Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. If you like Schoolutions, please share, rate, review, and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you want to reach out, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website: www.oliviawahl.com/podcast or via email @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Don't forget to talk about us nicely on social media, and please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.