[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am humbled to welcome my guest today, Pamela Dawson, known by those who love her as “Mama Dawson.” Let me tell you a little bit about Pamela.
[00:00:25] Olivia: Pamela's illustrious teaching career spans an impressive 28 years, with the last 17 at DeSoto High School in DeSoto, Texas. Her commitment to excellence has taken her students to incredible heights, including performances at renowned venues like Carnegie Hall, Hawaii and even international tours in London, England. In 2023, Pamela was honored as the Grammy Music Educator of the Year.
[00:00:59] Olivia: I am thrilled to welcome you as a guest on Schoolutions, Pamela. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited. I've been nervous all morning. Um, I love to ask every single guest who an inspiring educator is from their life. Would you share with listeners?
[00:01:26] Pamela: So an inspiring educator would probably be my band teacher when I was in high school, and he, his name was Jack Shelby. I used to play the clarinet, and he was, uh, our army person; he was in the army band. He was so strict and so precise. And I was like, and the other students couldn't stand him, but I think I loved him because he was so technical and he wanted everything right. And I think I loved that structure. So, believe it or not, my teaching skills come from him.
[00:01:53] Olivia: And I know the people that stick with us, they stick with us for different reasons. Um, and you have won over the hearts of the world at this point. Um, and I just, I seek out guests that are solutions-finders, changemakers, and you are all of those things and more.
[00:02:13] Olivia: Um, the issue we're going to speak to today is really my big concern that school music and arts education programs are severely underfunded, um, all over the world, but primarily in the United States, there's a gross underappreciation for the arts. And you are a solution just in yourself because with your recent Grammy win, you've said you want to use that notoriety, I guess you could say, um, to really advocate for states to invest more in music programs.
[00:02:52] Olivia: So I think that is huge. Um, and I want listeners just to understand the Grammy Museum and Recording Academy established the Music Educator role to recognize and celebrate the affirming role that music educators play in the lives of their students. You were chosen as a winner based on your impact in your students’ lives.
[00:03:15] Olivia: And you were selected from about 1,200 applicants and 10 finalists.
[00:03:23] Pamela: That was crazy.
[00:03:24] Olivia: I'm sure it was. And so I need to live vicariously. I need to walk in your shoes. You're very fancy, gorgeous Grammy shoes that you wore. I, this is one of my favorite Grammys I've ever been able to watch. I thought it was just amazing. Um, take us to that moment of, you know, you're getting dressed, you're on the red carpet. What was that like?
[00:03:48] Pamela: Wow. That whole situation was amazing. I think it was an out-of-body experience. I, I felt like a queen, you know, in uh, L.A., and I'm getting, I'm getting dressed and, and so, uh, the young lady that was with me with the Grammy, from the Grammy Museum - she says, okay, Pam, just be calm. You're about to walk the red carpet, and they're going to ask you all these questions, and you're going to be in front of cameras.
[00:04:07] Pamela: And she looked at me - she said, you don't seem nervous. And I said, you know why? I do this every day in front of my students. I feel like walking the red carpet and being in front, you know, and, but the experience and just the opportunity to be out there and to be able for people to see me and for me to be able to speak, um, was absolutely amazing.
[00:04:38] Pamela: And then the whole Grammy experience, I think it was just like a flash. It went by so fast. Um, now I still go back now and look at it and say, wow, that was really me, you know, I mean, I think I was in disbelief the entire time until I got back home.
[00:04:54] Olivia: Yeah! Who did you sit by at the Grammys?
[00:04:57] Pamela: Okay. So, well, actually, I sat by my honey. He was next to me, okay. But, uh, I was on the front row and right in front of me, I was on the end and all these tables and there's Adele and Lizzo and Beyoncéand all these people like right around me. I was absolutely so nervous. Wait a minute, but here's my thing. I'm sitting there and, um, you know, I, I feel this presence next to me, and I look up, it's The Rock…Dwayne Johnson.
[00:05:29] Olivia: Come on.
[00:05:29] Pamela: And he's standing there like, Oh my God. He’s here.
[00:05:37] Olivia: Oh my gosh.
[00:05:39] Pamela: You know, I just lost it. I mean, I literally like, oh, but you know, you can't…
[00:05:45] Olivia: No. You’ve got to keep it cool!
[00:05:49] Pamela: Yeah. You’ve got to keep your cool…you’ve got to keep it going. But that was amazing. You know, cause he's just like, you know, yeah, I think it's every woman's fantasy. It's The Rock. Oh my God.
[00:05:56] Pamela: Well, I just, I, you know, I remember watching and just being so honored to have a fellow educator there and you, you inspire so many. And so, you know, what has the impact been since winning the Grammy on your students on your life?
[00:06:15] Pamela: So the impact has, it's just been surreal. I mean, people are calling me and asking me things. Doors that I even didn't think about doing, you know, um, opportunities just opening up in front of me. And I'm like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? It's been an exciting, um, journey. Um, uh, and I love the fact that it gives me the opportunity to share my love for music with other people. Um, and so that impact in itself is just amazing. And one of the things that you said earlier is that you know, winning that Grammy is giving me that's that platform to be an advocate for music across the world.
[00:06:58] Pamela: And, uh, so, uh, but it's, it's been an amazing thing. My students, though, they get to watch, they get to sit with me and they go on, uh, all these other opportunities. I'm getting able, able to take them to other performances. And I think what is done for them is them, uh, it's being able to see themselves in a different way.
[00:07:22] Pamela: Um, and by me being propelled, it's propelling them to be greater musicians. But even their own character and how they carry themselves and thinking that if Ms. Dawson can do that, so can I. And it's just been an inspiration to them, really. And, you know, my whole thing about the Grammy, um, and everyone has been asking me the same question, you know, what do you think about it?
[00:07:45] Pamela: And I was like, if it wasn't for my students, I probably wouldn't have won it. So I just really invest, really invest back in them. Um, and I want to share this with you, this little story. One of my students graduated last year, just an amazing soprano. She went off to college and she's a music major, and she wants to be a music, uh, vocal teacher.
[00:08:08] Pamela: And over the summer, you know, the Grammy Museum gives us matching grants, and they give us money to pour into our department. And what I decided I wanted to do with that money was to give my students the opportunity to take private voice lessons.
[00:08:24] Olivia: Oh, beautiful!
[00:08:24] Pamela: Well, not only that, I wanted to use some of my former students to pour into their lives to be able to pour into my current students’ lives. So that's what I did with some of the money this summer. Um, it was amazing. And I'm just watching the growth of my students vocally. It's been, so it's blessed me even more because I get to give back to some of my alumni.
[00:08:46] Olivia: Well, but that speaks to who you are. It speaks to your character. Um, it speaks to your investment and commitment as an educator. And I know you take a lot of pride in creating a safe space for your students at DeSoto, but really any student or that you come across in life. So, you know, I've heard you say music is joy, music is healing. How do you create that safe space? And really what are your foundational beliefs when it comes to being a music educator?
[00:08:53] Olivia: And I know you take a lot of pride in creating a safe space for your students at DeSoto, but really any student or that you come across in life. So, you know, I've heard you say music is joy. Music is healing. How do you create that safe space? And really what are your foundational beliefs when it comes to music?
[00:09:17] Pamela: Well, when I first started and I had, I remember writing my philosophy of music education and I was like, so what is my philosophy? What is my basis? And what I derived from that was that passion and that love that I had in music, I wanted to impart that into my students. And I realized that music education is essential to their success in academics and in their lives.
[00:09:47] Pamela: And so my thought was, what can I do to do to create that? And my mother, I have to go back to my mom. My mother had this big loving heart, and I think I kind of got that from her. Okay. A lot. And my safe space comes from my students believing in me and trusting me and that I create that atmosphere that is open, is free.
[00:10:15] Pamela: They can be who they are and there's nobody to judge them. And there, when they come into the choir room, it's our space. And they can say what they want to and then so when I create that space in that nurturing space now, I use the whole thing with music and then we start doing a lot of things there, which creates that healing process.
[00:10:37] Pamela: And that's one of the things that I love talking about now is how can music heal mentally, physically - the entire process and they kind of even opened up more doors for me to even study music therapy.
[00:10:50] Olivia: Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. Um, I think too, I've, I've watched many an interview with you and, um, I think it's amazing when I hear you talk about cross-content connections when it comes to music. So you're at DeSoto High School. How do you collaborate with your colleagues across other content areas during the day or during the week?
[00:11:16] Pamela: So what I talked to them about is; hey, use music to start your class, play a song, um, math teachers go on YouTube and get a little jingle or something that you're going to, uh, a subject that you're going to talk about, because what's going to happen is that they're going to retain it even more because they hear it in the song. And then it's an attention grabber. But what I try to do in my classroom as far as collaboration is to get them to understand that the uses of the math and the physics and the history, because, of course, in my classroom, we do it all. But if they can understand application: Why do I need that? The other teachers say that we're, you're, we're losing our students.
[00:12:01] Pamela: And I'm saying you're coming at them the wrong way. You have to get something to grab their attention. And right now, you know that everyone walks around with Airpods in their ears listening to music all day. And we know the effects of music and how it affects the brain. So what can you do in your classroom to use that same content and bring it over and you'll have a more effective classroom.
[00:12:28] Pamela: You know, I will be presenting at the Texas Music Educators Conference in February - February 8th at 2PM. And I'm doing a workshop called Bringing Music to Life in the Music Classroom. And I'm talking about how I deal with text. I am really, really strong when it comes to literacy.
[00:12:51] Pamela: And I love taking text apart - poems, and I love saying, well, what is the meaning behind this? And what do you feel when you read it and how does it relate to you? And is there a dual meaning or, you know, a lot of times could be abstract, but sometimes it's straight to the point. And then what I do is that text, and then I'm like, okay, so listen to the music behind it.
[00:13:12] Pamela: The composer literally took the music and said, I'm going to create this burst of light right here or whatever, you know, we're, we're, we're doing this piece called Armistice 1918, and it's about after the war. Um, and it talks about, it says everyone's saying, and I'm talking about that sigh of relief that the war is over because the choir says, ahhhh….okay. And so we're really delving into text. And so I'm going to talk about that at the conference on February 8th; if you want to come to the Texas Music Educators Conference, you'll see me there. That's
[00:13:46] Olivia: That’s exciting. February 8th, 2024, which is crazy to think of, but it's right around the corner.
[00:13:54] Pamela: It’s right around the corner, but I'm excited about that workshop.
[00:13:57] Olivia: It's going to be wonderful. I think too, getting to the heart, um, my younger son is taking a music appreciation class this year and it was phenomenal - the first couple of weeks of school to have him come home at the dinner table and explain all of the meaning behind the lyrics of the songs. And he's, he was so excited about knowing that the thinking and, um, how, you know, what it was supposed to leave listeners with that overall message. That's what we're going for as ELA teachers. That's what we're trying to get students to understand in history classes. There's a, there's a meaning behind these words. It's poetry in motion, I guess you could say.
[00:14:38] Olivia: Right? Um, and I think, you know, I always wonder about what inspires teachers. Do they know they want to be teachers from a really young age, or is it a second career and you, you started, I think, playing piano at the age of seven, maybe? Um, Right? With your dad's tutelage? And then, um, but you had a whole other career. Teaching is a second career. So talk to us, like what made you choose to go into teaching after your other career had started?
[00:15:14] Pamela: So my story is I've always loved music and I wanted to be a music major. I switched, uh, went into business because my dad said there's no money in music. Okay. My mom said, you should be a teacher. And I'm like, mom, I don't want to teach. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't want to deal with kids. And so I did start a career in business. I was in, um, uh, an administrative assistant and I was in computer information systems. So that was my first career. And, um, But I did study music in school. So here's the, that's the funny part in college.
[00:15:50] Pamela: But what brought me to the classroom actually was my daughter. She was eight years old, and she came home from school and she was like telling me about the things that were happening in her class. And I was not happy. Okay. As a mother, I was not happy. I was like, oh no, we can't have this going on in school.
[00:16:09] Pamela: So my thought was, well, I need to come up there and see what's going on. So, guess what? I quit my job. I quit my job and I went up to the school and said, I want to volunteer in my daughter's class. And I started volunteering in her class and we made such a big impact. I actually helped the teacher a lot. You know, and so we made this fun atmosphere. She loved it. The kids loved it. Um, and it kind of spread around the school, the elementary school. And the principal came to me and says, hey, next year, can you come and be a volunteer?
[00:16:45] Pamela: And I looked at her and said, no. I said, if I'm going to do this, I got to get paid for it. So I got to tell you my story. So look, so I ran into, I was working for a math camp, um, that summer and I was actually an administrative assistant again. And there was this wonderful lady. She came up to me. I was working with her. She says, hey, Pam, you have such a strong music background, but I need you to work at my new high school in the counseling department.
[00:17:18] Pamela: But while you do that, can you start a choir?
[00:17:22] Olivia: Yes! There you go.
[00:17:25] Pamela: And that was my spinoff. And that's actually how I walked into education, got in front of those students that first day, and said, Oh my God, this is it.
[00:17:36] Olivia: Isn't that fascinating too, because it's really coming full circle where you have the lens of counseling and healing through music, but you're getting to explore all those avenues. And it's really because you are willing to take a huge risk. Yes, for your daughter, but that paid it forward ripple effects. So that's incredible. Oh gosh, it's beautiful. That's a lovely story. Um, so I always love to talk to teachers about how our students can surprise us in wonderful ways. Is there a student, a story of, um, someone that surprised you along your journey as a choir director?
[00:18:17] Pamela: Her name was Brayla and Brayla was one of, she came in as a freshman and just full of talent. And I loved her so much. And she just kind of went through a little process where she was a little depressed. And I told her, I said, Brayla, I said, honey, just take all that energy and that negative energy. And I want you to go home and I wanted you to put it in your music.
[00:18:41] Pamela: And I was teaching her piano class at the time. And she, um, she's like, okay, Ms. Dawson, I'm gonna do that. And about a couple of weeks later, her mom calls me and said, what did you say to her? And I said, I just told her to rechannel her energy. I said, you know, sometimes we deal with stresses and anger and we don't like this, and mama did this.
[00:19:08] Pamela: And I said…cause I'm, I'm a mom. So I know how moms can to be. Okay. And, um, I told her to rechannel your energy and put it in your music and her mom says I've never heard her play and sing like that ever because of what you have been pouring into her. And so she not only came up to my expectations, she far exceeded it.
[00:19:32] Pamela: She ended up graduating from here, going to Berklee School of Music. And she ended up at Berklee, finished her degree in three years. And now she's working as an artist. She's trying to, you know, she's bringing her music out. Actually, and I'm trying to help her get, you know, out there in the world. So people can hear this wonderful…she is amazing. So she surprised me. And then I had this one other little boy, and I got to tell you about him, Johnny, he graduated way back in the, in the day. And he was just a nuisance. He was just jumping around all the time. He just got on my nerves, but he had all this talent and he surprised me. Guess what? He ended up on Broadway.
[00:20:18] Olivia: That's awesome. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, but it's because I think teachers like you see the potential in students. Um, yeah, they may be acting out for whatever reason they need, they need something, something, but if you see every student's potential and what they can offer the world, um, that conversation you had with your, her, it changed the trajectory of her life.
[00:21:21] Pamela: Yes it did.
[00:20:49] Olivia: You know, our words have so much power. And I think often of teachers in every subject area. If we move to that asset-based thinking of what our students can do and seeing the potential and taking it up a notch for them every single lesson, um, I think it's just, it's, it's incredible. Um, what is your favorite or one of your favorite - I'm sure it would be impossible to choose - one of your favorite songs that you're, you've coached your students around that you've performed. What do you love?
[00:21:22] Pamela: Oh my God. My favorite song is by Gwyneth Walker and it is, I Thank You God (for This Most Amazing Day). Oh my gosh. When I first heard that song, I fell in love with it and you know, what's really funny about that song is it has stuck with me all these years when I was sitting in my hotel room getting ready to go to receive my Grammy, the only thing I played was that song over and over again. Because I was like, this is an amazing day, you know, this is incredible. And so that song is probably my favorite out of all of, I have lots and lots of favorites.
[00:22:05] Olivia: Oh, beautiful. Do you have a recording of your students singing it?
[00:22:10] Pamela: I do. I do!
[00:22:10] I Thank You God (song): (song playing)
[00:27:31] Olivia: Gorgeous! So I know that we both fear the way that music and arts education is being cut in every way, shape and form. It's poured into other content areas and then students that could thrive with music education, and in turn everything else in their life. They're just missing out. Um, it creates gross inequities. Um, and so, you know, how are you using your Grammy win to advocate for a shift? You know, why is music worthy of this investment in your mind?
[00:28:05] Pamela: Well, you know, I think for us, it's really important to educate our our, I wanna say our administrators, our legislation, because what happens is they don't understand the value of the music in the school. They don't understand that, um, most students look forward to, uh, fine arts to come to school every day. It's for that music class. We are the ones that motivate them, and because we do, we, um, they're, they're stronger. They have more grit, they have more perseverance, they learn teamwork. Their social-emotional skills are better than everybody else.
[00:28:45] Pamela: Their testing scores are better. And if we can understand that, then we can get our legislation to really lock in and say, hey, let's not cut this. I mean, it's, it's like chopping off your head to me, it is. And music is that important. And especially in social-emotional learning. Especially with dealing with coping skills.
[00:29:08] Pamela: Okay. And it really takes a big role in their development. And so I would love to just go around the country and speak and say, you know, I kind of, you know, I'm, I, I'm a, I'm a Gigi, I'm a grandma. So I have a little four-year-old granddaughter, but I'm, I'm like, you know, I'm like the Lorax from Dr. Seuss.
[00:29:29] Pamela: I speak for the trees! Okay. I speak for music. I want us to go and say, no, let's not cut this. We, it is so hard for music programs. We have to fundraise. We have to ask for contributions, which I do all the time because it's like, we don't have that funding.
[00:29:45] Pamela: And I think here in Texas, they're talking about, it was something, it was a bill that was trying to help the fine arts department, just like they pour into the athletics department, just the same way into the fine arts. And I'm really, really praying that our senators and our, you know, our legislation here in Texas will hear that and will work on that because we really do need the funding.
[00:30:10] Olivia: Well, Pamela, if they're going to hear it from anyone, it should be you.
[00:29:45] Pamela: It should be me!
[00:30:15] Olivia: They have a resident Grammy winner in their state. They should listen. You know what you're talking about. Um, and you also have a spectacular website. It's beautiful. And I just I want folks to know about it. What projects do you have coming up that we can look forward to? And how would you love us to get in touch with you moving forward?
[00:30:41] Pamela: Well, my website is pamelaelizabeth.org. And of course, (my full name.org). Uh, and yeah, my projects, things that I'm about to create now is I'm just starting a 501c3 organization and it's called Difference Makers. And Difference Makers, my, my vision is to reach our community and our students and our seniors.
[00:31:08] Pamela: And I want to be able to advocate and only, not only advocate, but to teach everyone about the power of music and what music does. You know, one of the, I did a, um, professional development or workshop a few months ago, and I talked about music and its healing power and how even breathing and humming, and I had a lady walk up to me and say, I never realized that humming can cause healing.
[00:31:44] Pamela: And I said, yes, ma'am. You know, we, it's called vibroacoustics. And I said, we have this chest, we have a, uh, acoustical chest here and in our face, and this is where all the vibration happens. And when we hum, it just vibrates through the body, and it goes down to the cellular system. And they were like, oh my God, that's great! And I'm like, I would; I am looking for that audience to hear me and say, listen, we need this mental and emotional and physical healing.
[00:32:15] Pamela: Let's let music do that for us. And so pamelaelizabeth.org was created so everyone could come and find me there being able to reach out to me and say, hey, I would love for you to come and speak or be a guest speaker or consultant. And teach me a little bit more about what is coming up. And, and with my, um, uh, non-profit, uh, Difference Makers, I'm also starting a community choir and my community choir will also be very impactful in making those things happen. And actually my community choir is comprised of all my alumni.
[00:32:53] Olivia: Oh, that's magnificent. Oh, and I've got to say, you just unlocked a mom secret for me. For my entire life, raising my two sons with my husband. We always gauged a barometer of their happiness or them being okay if they're humming, right? And oh my gosh, that makes so much sense, so thank you for teaching me.
[00:33:18] Pamela: And we didn't even know, like sometimes when we don't feel good, we'll sit and we'll hum. And when we hum it, we're healing our bodies.
[00:33:25] Olivia: Come on. You know, we have so much to learn from you, Pamela. And I, I've been just wildly anticipating this conversation and I am so grateful for your time. You're brilliant. You're a shining star. You are a Grammy winner as you should be. You are indeed. Show everyone your gorgeous sweater with your Grammy on it. Oh, look, look, look.
[00:33:53] Pamela: I wear my Grammy proudly. Now I have to say this though. It took me a minute to walk into it. I'm sure. You know, it was, it was a surprise. I was shocked. Um, and it was like, wow, I won. And I'm like, really, really? And then it just took time for me to walk and say, I'm actually a Grammy winner, but it sits proudly on my piano.
[00:34:20] Olivia: Well, you know, you inspire me and I am so looking forward to seeing how your journey continues to blossom and grow and evolve. And we're just so lucky to have you as a music educator in the world walking this journey. Um, so thank you so much for your time and Pamela, it's just, it's a gift. Thank you.
[00:34:45] Pamela: Thank you so much.
[00:34:46] Olivia: Take care.
[00:34:49] Olivia: Schoolutions is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Pamela Dawson. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.