[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am honored to welcome my guest today, Talisa Jones, known to many followers as Talisa Nicole and @tj_thatsit on social media.
[00:00:24] Olivia: I first started bugging Talisa to be a guest on Schoolutions when I saw her reels on a National Education Association's Insta page @NEAtoday. I also have followed Talisa's amazing TikToks and her passion for food in general is awesome. Today, Talisa is going to share about her role as a Food Service ESP and why it is critical that we all work together to get the Universal School Meals Act passed by Congress. Welcome Talisa. I'm so happy to have you as a guest.
[00:00:59] Talisa: Hello, Olivia. I'm so happy to be here with you.
[00:01:01] Olivia: Well, so here's the thing. I want to start off with knowing who an inspiring educator is for you and has been in your life. And then we're going to jump right into what your role is as a Food Service ESP and, um, sharing about all that you do to make kids' lives better. So, with that said, who is an educator from your life that has inspired you over the years?
[00:01:28] Talisa: You know, the funny thing I always say when it comes to remembering educators from my childhood, I always remember elementary, um, more than middle school, more than high school. And that's so crazy to me that, you know, cause you're younger and it was longer ago, but I remember those teachers and those staff more than anything. Um, so with that being said, for me, it would be the custodian, um, in my elementary school. His name was Mr. James. And also, um, a lunch lady in middle school was actually my best friend's mother. And she was so nurturing and always made sure that I ate. And if she caught me not eating, she would ask me why and then give me something anyway. Um, and that just felt good to have people there that cared about you that weren't teachers that were just staff in the school that also, uh, cared about the students just as equally.
[00:02:14] Olivia: Yeah. Well, and so that speaks so beautifully then as a segue to your role as a Food Service ESP. And for those noneducators that are listening, caregivers, perhaps, ESP stands for Educational Support Professional. They are the heartbeat of school buildings, and they're not recognized enough, right? We don't recognize teachers enough, but Food Service ESPs or ESPs in general, they are the behind the scenes in classrooms in the buildings, and they are making life happen and better for kids. So, um…
[00:02:53] Talisa: I absolutely agree.
[00:02:55] Olivia: Right? Right? So I always seek guests out based on issues that I'm seeing in public education. And, um, I have been really, really concerned after COVID that universal school meals went by the wayside and children had to start paying for their food again, um, and that immediately reduces access to food, right? We know children can't learn if they're hungry. It's just not possible. So that worries me. And then I reached out to you and shared a book that has inspired me. This is the book that we're going to read together and, and unpack hopefully, but The Labor of Lunch: Why We Need Real Food and Real Jobs in American Public Schools. It's by Dr. Jennifer Gaddis.
[00:03:39] Olivia: Shout out to Dr. Gaddis. Um, and I asked you if it was okay if we start by reading an excerpt from the back cover of this book, because it names the issue and then why you are as amazing as you are. So here we go. “There's a problem with school lunch in America. Big food companies have largely replaced the nation's school cooks by supplying cafeterias with cheap pre-cooked hamburger patties and chicken nuggets chock full of industrial fillers. Yet it's no secret that meals cooked from scratch with nutritious locally-sourced ingredients are better for children, workers and the environment. So why not empower lunch ladies to do more than just unbox and reheat factory-made food? And why not organize together to make healthy, ethically sourced free school lunches a reality for all children?”
[00:04:38] Olivia: Boom.
[00:04:34] Talisa: Absolutely. Love that. Mic drop.
[00:04:38] Olivia: Mic drop. Issue and solution all in one, right? So take us through a day, like what is your role as a Food Service ESP? Can you share that with listeners? What, how would you define that?
[00:04:50] Talisa: Sure. Absolutely. Well, currently I'm a cafeteria manager at an elementary school. And my day starts very early.
[00:04:57] Olivia: I can imagine.
[00:04:59] Talisa: I start between 6:30-6:45. Um, I'm there for a good hour and a half by myself before my staff come in. And I open the kitchen to get all the paperwork ready; start the dishwasher, start the ovens, prep breakfast from the moment you walk in it is nonstop. And then as a manager, there's an extra task of, you know, reading emails and making sure we're following the rules from our supervisors.
[00:05:24] Talisa: And so it's a lot, because not only do I do the manager paperwork, email stuff, but I'm also jumping in with my team and helping them prep the food and set up for breakfast, set up for lunch. Um, so between getting there, setting up, and then when my staff come in, we immediately serve breakfast. After breakfast, we're rushing right into prepping lunch. So it was like, boom, boom, boom. Um, we prep lunch. We have our 30-minute lunch break. Recoup a little bit, and then we get ready to start serving lunch and our lunch service is continuous for two hours, nonstop, not even a little smidgen of a break in between those two hours.
[00:06:03] Olivia: How many school lunches and actually like breakfast and lunches do you serve in a given day?
[00:06:09] Talisa: At a given day, um, I average between 170 breakfasts and lunches between 380-420, depending on how popular the menu is that day. So how do you pick the
[00:06:20] Olivia: So how do you pick the menu?
[00:06:22] Talisa: I don't pick the menu. Wow. So, uh, we get our menus sent to us, um, Kindergarten has their own, not kindergarten, uh, K-5 has their own menu. Middle school has their own menu. High school has their own menu. Um, and we just have to go based on that. Like, we can make substitutions, but we have to get approvals. I'm pretty sure there's a big reason for that. Um, but yeah, I don't make the menu. I wish I could, but then I also wish I couldn't. Cause that'd be a lot of, it's a lot.
[00:06:50] Olivia: It’s a lot! You're already in the prep and everything you have to do to execute is enough right now. And you are an amazing chef. Like you are a foodie. And so you also, right, you also have like a whole separate identity, I would say that's also paired with the food world and you bring that passion to children. What, what stories can you share of like things that surprise you about your role or stories about kids that have just gotten you in the heart?
[00:07:20] Talisa: There's so many, but I guess I would pick something that just happened on, what was it, Wednesday or Thursday? I think Wednesday. Okay, so Tuesday we had snow again, so school was cancelled, school was closed. The next day we were like, oh, school might be closed again, the roads are still pretty bad. But it wasn't closed, it was a two-hour delay. Two-hour delay is great for the kids because they get to sleep in late, but for a special and even teachers they get to come late too. But for ESPs, custodians, food service workers, bus drivers, we still got to come in at regular time despite weather conditions. Um, so with a two-hour delay, kids, instead of school starting at 9:10, it starts at 11:10.
[00:08:02] Talisa: Which means as soon as they come in at 11:10, we're serving breakfast. They still get breakfast even though it was a two-hour delay.
[00:08:07] Olivia: Oh, that's fascinating.
[00:08:08] Talisa: And, yeah, and so literally right after breakfast, we're serving lunch because the day is shorter. And, um, a teacher was like, oh my gosh, your breakfast line is so long. I didn't expect it to be this long since it was the late opening. Didn't these kids eat at home? It's almost lunchtime. They didn't eat? And I'm like, this is how a normal person who doesn't work in this field would think. This is how I would, I would think if I didn't know or, you know, you just, um, yeah, you just didn't understand the need for food for students. And I told her, I was like, well, believe it or not, most of the, most of these kids in line right now are free and reduced. They get free meals. So that speaks volumes because it's like, um, the kids who pay for breakfast and lunch, they still came in line, but not as many, but those free and reduced students, they definitely came to get their breakfast because that was probably one of their meals for today that they were really looking forward to. And that just makes you think like, oh, I cannot stay through late openings because it makes us have to work so much harder. Um, but at the same time, I'm happy to provide those meals for those students who would never had possibly gotten a meal if school was not open that day.
[00:09:13] Olivia: So that's why I always get so frustrated. When I was a teacher in New York City. It is one of the nation's biggest school districts, if not the biggest, right? And people would get so mad if they had to schlep in on a snow day and commute. I get it. It's scary. It's dangerous. It's not fun. But, oftentimes, that is the only way children have access to food. And so, right, we, we have to, it's a double-edged sword here. Um, right, over COVID, they, a lot of districts had pickup locations, so families could still go or caregivers. And that was lovely. Um, but as I've seen your reels, um, and really, followed you as a practitioner of your craft, something that continues to greatly concern me is access to food, and I would love for you to share with listeners what the Universal School Meals Act is and how it could drastically benefit the lives of children in general.
[00:10:20] Talisa: Yes, so the Universal Meals Act, um, were pretty much, to easily explain it, would provide free, uh, meals for all students across America, regardless of their family's income. And I think that's very important, because usually there's a stigma and there's a shame for kids who get free lunch. Now, my lunch babies don't really understand that because they're so young. They don't understand money, but when you hit middle school and high school, um, people will notice that you get free lunch and sometimes they don't want to go up online because they don't want people to know you get free lunch. Oh, you get free lunch. Is your family poor? You know, kids can be mean sometimes.
[00:10:57] Talisa: And with the Universal School Meals Act, everybody's getting free lunch. So there is no stigma. You get free lunch. You get free lunch. You get free lunch. So I think that's awesome. And also, like, um, I've had parents coming to me saying how they just weren't prepared to pay for meals again this year. Because this is our second year we're paying for lunch came back. Like you said, with COVID, um, the government passed where we were federally funded all across and we were getting meals free for everybody regardless of income. But then when we come back, it was a surprise to parents like, oh, we have to apply for free reduce again. Oh, now I have to qualify.
[00:11:38] Talisa: There are a lot of parents who don't qualify anymore and they're stressed. And I get it because the income guidelines are so minute. You can be making over by just a dollar. And you're disqualified. And I think that it's horrible to say like, oh, just because this person makes less, oh, let them pay. Um, they don't have to pay, but this person who makes a little more has to pay. There's still a need and there's still a struggle, even if the parent is making more than another, another family. You understand? And I just think free for everybody is the way to go. These kids are in school, they're expected to be there. Attendance is crazy now, it's very low. And districts across, not just my school district, are like sending notes home to parents, like, send your kid to school, attendance matters. You want them there? Feed them. Why should the parents have to incur another bill for a place that their kid is expected to be? Oh,
[00:12:28] Olivia: Oh! Well said. Well said. It's so true. Um, and I would also really, I've investigated schools that have thought through even creating food pantries um, on their campus,and that's a whole other level of support that caregivers can receive. Um, but really, you know, what is our best next step in order to get this act passed? Because I don't know how it could be anything but wonderful when it comes to benefiting children. This is good for kids. It's good for caregivers. It's good for public education and the school system in general. What do we do?
[00:13:10] Talisa: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, urge your local government to provide free meals for all students, regardless of the family's income. Um, we've seen it done during COVID, and my big question is, if we can do it then, why can't we do it now? You cannot tell me that we can't, that we can't fund it. This is, uh, nutrition for kids. This is meals for them. This is something very important. And we see our tax dollars go through so many things that we don't even personally agree with. But what I think we can all agree with is kids need to eat!
[00:13:39] Olivia: Yeah, and if we worry so much, I continue to hear, you know, kids fell behind during COVID. The only way children will be ready to learn and access thinking and their brains activated is if their bellies are full. Right. If a child is, and this should not be something in this country that we are worrying about, right? How could we live in the United States and have this not be, I don't, I don't understand. It's so frustrating. So, yeah.
[00:14:09] Talisa: Right. Absolutely.
[00:14:12] Olivia: Um, so just to circle back to your, your position and your job. Um, so how many people are on the staff in your building to make this magic happen?
[00:14:23] Talisa: Uh, there's five of us, including me. Yeah, it's only five of us. And you know, sometimes it can be one person that calls out, but if there's like a nasty bug going around, it could be two people that call out. And sometimes we don't always get a sub because we're so, so, uh, short staffed and it has gotten better, but there still is a need for more, uh, food service providers. So sometimes they don't have a sub to send us and like, sorry, TJ, you'll be two short today. And I'm like, oh, got to work faster. Got to work harder. Um, these kids still want the strawberry cheese, uh, shortcake. We know it takes a while to make, but we can't take it off the menu because we're short-staffed. They, they will go crazy. Yeah. So we just, make it work.
[00:15:02] Olivia: And I guess another question is, you know, you are a foodie and you're able to put your spin on the whole idea of school lunches not being always delicious. What do you do to ensure that the food that is going out is as delicious as possible for your kids?
[00:15:17] Talisa: I am, uh, I preach presentation matters the kids will eat with their eyes first. If you make it look good, they'll like it. So something for instance, uh, our chicken enchiladas, after you cook them, you put the cheese and you steam it so it's nice and melty. So when I take my little videos, it's fresh out the oven. It's looking fantastic. But after it sits for about 20 minutes, it's all dried up. So I learned a little trick. I would take the dry enchiladas off, make a new one, make it fresh. So when the new kids come and see, and then I also offer samples.
[00:15:51] Talisa: I know it looks different. Maybe you're not used to this. Maybe you never had a chicken enchilada before. Would you like to taste another piece? Or would you like to taste a little piece? A lot of times they will take it and taste it. Especially when we're doing like promotional items. Like we had enchiladas. Not enchiladas. Uh, tamales recently. We had pupusas. And um, you can tell a lot of kids eat that at home. And they were so happy to see it in the lunch line. So that's awesome. Another thing is I say like, we follow the recipes to a tee. We have to, even if you think like, oh, there's no flavor in this. It is what it is.
[00:16:24] Talisa: But, um, even though two schools have the same recipe for the gravy, it can taste a little bit different. You gotta put some love in it. Are you just quickly mixing it or are you taking your time and you making sure all those flavors get together? There's a big difference. Teachers come through my line. Parents come through my line and say, oh, your spread looks amazing.
[00:16:48] Olivia: The other thing you're speaking to is there is love. There is love and time invested in making these meals beautiful. And I hadn't ever thought about representation and representation matters so much. And so by seeing food that you eat at home represented to others and being able like, what a beautiful idea to give samples. Kids, kids, they're wary. They're like, I don't know. That doesn't, it's nothing I've ever tasted before. Right? So offer a taste and I will tell you, both of my boys, especially my younger son, they have had a world of food opened up to them through school lunch and through the, I'm going to say chefs, Food Service, ESPs/chef in their schools that have encouraged them to try something they never would have tried at home and it's beautiful. So…
[00:17:48] Talisa: Because here's the thing, the kids not going to take something that they're not so sure of and then they're like, oh, now I don't have a lunch because I didn't like it. But if I could taste it and decide if I like it or not, you're not missing out on anything. So true.
[00:18:00] Olivia: So true. So true. So for us, you know, I know you've spoken to children during the school year, not having access to food. A reel that I saw you post about was a little girl, um, that approached you toward the end of the school year. Would you share that story with listeners? Because that pulled at my heartstrings and it's so important.
[00:18:23] Talisa: I will never forget that. That was my first year as a lunch lady. Um, I was working at my first school that I was permanent at and it was the last day. And this little girl says, I'm going to miss your food so much or I'm so sad school is ending. And I asked, I was like, you're not excited for summer vacation. I want to stress that this was, um, I work about 30 minutes away from where I live, but this was in a neighborhood where you could tell the tax dollars were going into the school.
[00:18:48] Talisa: That's another issue. You, you, you could tell it's the same county, but schools look very different depending on the tax bracket. So you wouldn't think that there was food insecurity in this school at all. And I was like, oh, you're not excited for summer. You're not going to, you know, fun, fun, fun. And she's like, I'm not going to be able to have these delicious meals. And at first I just felt like, oh, well maybe she's just being nice and saying your food was good. But then I'm thinking, oh, what, what if these are her really two hot meals that she's getting? Breakfast and lunch during the day, and she's going to miss that because she's not going to be guaranteed that in the summer. And that kind of broke my heart.
[00:19:22] Olivia: Well, and I, I, the reason I asked you to share that story is because I think folks that are non-educators, um, that do tune into this podcast, I want them to understand, even though vacation and summer break or holidays off, it seems like the most dreamy, wonderful thing. There are children that dread those vacations and it caused me to stop putting countdowns on boards. I don't count down to spring break. I don't count down to summer break anymore because that countdown is anxiety-driving for a lot of kids that see it as a countdown to when they won't have access to food. Right? So it just. I think the world of being in education is so fascinating because if you put yourself in the shoes of others, that you, you stop making assumptions about what people have and don't have. Right?
[00:20:22] Talisa: Exactly, yeah. So I learned that day that, uh, nobody - hungry doesn't have a look, you know? And I learned that. And that was a hard lesson to learn.
[00:20:32] Olivia: Yeah. Well, and something you've also illuminated for me today is the idea that hunger is hidden. It's, it's hidden by many, there's shame associated with it. And so let's wrap on the note; we all need to; I will put a link in the show notes. We all need to go to our local, we can just search Universal School Meals Act. And then there are links right there. I will put it in the notes too.
[00:21:03] Talisa: And I even have a link on my bio that you could still register for it.
[00:21:07] Olivia: Okay, good. So we will make sure, because it doesn't take a lot of time, but we, and we really need to get people, like, this is the call to action. We need to get this passed, um, hunger doesn't have a look, right? I love that. And, um, you are working so hard every day for children to bring joy and to, uh, bring food to their tummies. And we need to support you in that venture. So….thank you.
[00:21:34] Talisa: And I want to say if a lunch lady is pushing for this. It's serious. Cause let me tell you, there will be some lunch ladies probably staring at me like, girl, do you know this means 20 times to work for you? Yes, I know. My numbers will easily increase from 400 lunches to 700 lunches a day. Um, but it's for a good cause.
[00:21:50] Olivia: It sure is. It sure is.
[00:21:52] Talisa: Yeah. I'm going to be; it's not like I have to work later. I'm going to be there for the same amount of hours and I don't mind a little hard work to feed my babies.
[00:21:58] Olivia: Well, um, you are an amazing human and I am, I'm so excited that we were able to connect for this conversation. And I think you're going to inspire a lot of people, um, to have a better understanding of the role of a Food Service ESP, but just the role of hunger and food, um, and in our public school system. You inspire me at every turn and what you do on a daily, uh, to help kids and their caregivers. It's just like you're amazing. So thank you for taking the time on the weekend to have this conversation. I appreciate you.
[00:22:32] Talisa: Thank you. Of course. Of course, Olivia.
[00:22:34] Olivia: Take care.
[00:22:36] Talisa: You too.
[00:22:37] Olivia: Schoolutions is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Talisa Jones. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.