[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions®, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am happy to be here with my friend and colleague, Dr. Wendy Bunker. We are going to be unpacking New York State Literacy Brief number 6.
[00:00:25] Olivia: It is called The Science of Reading, The Secondary Years. And, um, Wendy, I am so excited because, um, most of our work these days is hip-to-hip together in middle and high schools. And, uh, we love talking shop about our work, and so much of the work we're doing aligns beautifully with this Brief specifically, um, I know we've also talked about how each Brief kind of stands on the shoulders of the one before it. And we think that some of the Brief would be redundant to talk about, but we want to hone our conversation really around a couple of sections and go more in-depth with them. So the first section, The Secondary Years, Grades 7-12: Literacy for Ideas and Identities. Again, these Briefs are crafted by Dr. Nonie K. Lesaux and Katie Carr, M.Ed. and they so beautifully shift, this Brief to focus more around “self-discovery…collaborative and individual learning experiences; students being both scholars and citizens…also purpose-driven integration of information across sources; as well as written communication skills, which showcase students' content mastery, ability to grasp abstract concepts, and a capacity to articulate insights that are uniquely their own.”
[00:02:01] Olivia: I know you and I have been studying the idea of, you know, how do we engage students? And the first thing, it jumped right out to me. I have a line on my page, one that speaks to collaborative and individual learning experiences, and I jotted cognitive engagement right there. We talk a lot in our work about 1/3 versus 2/3 and classrooms really moving away from that lecture model or guided notes filling in the blank. So I'd love for you to speak to that 1/3 versus 2/3 that is a huge part of our work these days.
[00:02:42] Wendy: Sure. And, um, it's so important to remember that that is a - it's not a hard and fast number. It's, it's an approximation. And, um, some of the folks that we work with, well, everyone has a 40 or 41-minute period, but some folks are thinking in 80-minute chunks. And while others are still thinking in 40-minute chunks. So that balance of 2/3, 1/3 while the minutes add up the same, if you're thinking over two days, it feels a little bit different when you're actually in that chunk of time, that, that essentially 40-minute chunk of time. Um, but the, the thinking behind that, of course, is, as you've already identified from that paragraph, that first chunk of the, um, the Brief, that we're talking about collaborative and individual learning experiences. And when we think about 2/3 student time and 1/3 individual time, whether that be the teacher, as we probably traditionally think of it, or a student who is one student who's speaking to the whole group.
[00:04:00] Wendy: But anyway, back to the 2/3 time. There, we're talking about the collaborative and individual learning because students are reading, they're writing, and they're talking, and so they're building that, that cognitive capacity, but they're also building their cognitive storehouse. So, it is, um, I think of it as, like, this major, uh, work engine, uh, just chugging along the tracks. Um, and I know that in the schools that we work in, um, we're not just talking about ELA. And I think when we think about the Briefs, because it is the Science of Reading, so often I think people tend to say, oh, that's the world of the English teacher or that's the world of ELA. But really, we're talking about all content areas because there are different types of literacy within the content, but it's all under that major umbrella of literacy and literacy for learning.
[00:05:05] Olivia: It's so true. And we also have the privilege of learning alongside teachers that are experimenting with developing their own humanities courses. And so it could be an ELA teacher co-teaching with a global studies teacher, perhaps. That's an example. And they're using Enduring Issues, uh, based on New York State that are patterns throughout history, as well as anchor texts that are a gorgeous example of authors using their craft to depict what is happening at that time period and the, how they're being impacted and society is influenced. So, it also connects directly to that purpose-driven integration of information across sources, because, you know, these Briefs speak a lot to text sets, and it's not about teaching books in high school, it's really about, you know, what topics are we going to be studying with students? Um, how are we making connections and history from then? And now, and again, it goes across all content areas. And how are we carving 2/3 time out of any chunk of time for students to collaborate, read, write, and talk about those topics?
[00:06:27] Olivia: Um, the other layer that really sticks out to me is that idea of scholars and citizens. And a lot of our conversations in the work we're doing with teachers is about, you know, designing tasks for students that are relevant, that are authentic. And I know, Wendy, I am much more apt as a human being to put effort into work if I know the audience is broader than the folks hanging out within the four walls of my classroom. So, you know, how can we bring the outside community in? How can we have students crafting and creating based on topics that are relevant and interesting to them? Um, and if it's in a global studies class or humanities, there is that connection between patterns from then to now. So, I think it's, it's just incredible, exciting work.
[00:07:22] Wendy: It sure is. And this year, um, we've seen middle school students writing books, creating picture books that they then share with elementary school students. So, um, with, certainly you're talking about the larger community, the community beyond the school walls, but there's also the community between buildings that I think has a great impact on, as you said, students, motivation, their engagement with the task, and then, um, even their social-emotional learning, because they are they're making connections with students across grade levels. And, um, it's just it's a really exciting way to display learning.
[00:08:09] Olivia: It is, it is. And I know, um, we actually moved in the Brief beyond, um, page two to focus heavily on page three, and that's where again, it's one of my favorite pages, in the Briefs of the high impact practices in action. What do these look like in secondary settings? And I was saying to you specifically the row around phonological awareness, phonics, spelling, and word study skill building. You and I've made a point across the Briefs to only highlight what is new and different. And that entire row for me was highlighted. And I thought, wow, um, and we have had so many conversations around vocabulary development. Um, you know, what does it look and feel like to ditch the Friday vocabulary test or teaching students every word you think will maybe on an SAT, um, and how can we get some authentic vocabulary development work going?
[00:09:15] Olivia: And it's beyond vocabulary development because this specifically says, “…learners analyze words with complex spelling patterns, intricate to morphological structures and nuanced linguistic elements, such as connotations. Target words are explicitly taught, and application and authentic tasks is modeled in practice.” You have helped me really go backwards to go forwards. And I'd love for listeners to hear, you know, how does this work stand on the of even PreK where it all begins?
[00:09:53] Wendy: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so the, the earliest learners, of course, are building their foundation in phonological awareness, phonemic awareness, and then once they have the alphabetic principle, once they're able to map, graphemes or letters to sounds or phonemes, then we can build their phonics understanding. So that's understanding patterns. It's understanding how, um, how words are constructed, prefixes, suffixes, root words, or base words, depending on what you call them. And so all of those layers, build one on another on another until we do reach the secondary level. And this, this is like 7-12 world. Um, we're in the elementary years, teachers are probably focused on that level of prefix, suffix, base word. But then we're getting into that even more complex analysis and looking at the base word, understanding, um, an origin, perhaps, or understanding the different, um, meanings that are, can be constructed around a base word. And then when I add a prefix, how does that change the meaning? If I add a suffix, what happens to the meaning? Does it become a different part of speech? Is it a noun? Is it a verb? Is it an adjective? So all of that study can be, um, encompassed in what we formerly called vocabulary. I mean, we're still studying words.
[00:11:37] Wendy: So it is about the structure of words and the meaning of words and how that really enriches our personal vocabulary. The words that we have stored in our brains. Um, and so many people would tell us that when we have the skills to know how to, to take the word apart and to understand how the parts work together, we're much better able to tackle an unfamiliar word. And to even to make meaning of it. So, um, well, there are words that we, that we have to learn maybe in a more regimented way, especially very specified vocab, uh, I'm sorry, um, content area words, there are so many words that if we know a little bit, it really gives us a leg into the understanding of the less familiar word. So it's, it, it's a fun game and it's a marvelous skill to be able to parse language like that.
[00:12:48] Olivia: It is. And I would say, you know, I am blessed with children, my own children that read voluminously and their vocabularies are pretty extensive. And I think that, you know, it also, it matters the vocabulary we use as grownups around children from the moment they're born, um, being steeped in language around them. Um, and I remember when I was teaching in California, um, all of my students were bilingual and just thinking of always using that more rigorous language or that higher-level vocabulary, and then backing it up with synonymous language. Um, if it wasn't accessible at that point, reading aloud to students, steeping them in vocabulary from a young age. And, you know, I've learned from Tanya Wright, Dr. Tanya Wright, that you also, that idea of text sets. That's a wonderful entry point to help children uncover vocabulary, but within a framework of, you know, we're studying this topic. And so they can build connections across, um, across that topic. The other piece…Oh, go ahead. Yeah…
[00:14:04] Wendy: They're also building background knowledge, which when you started talking about the early literacy, when you started talking about that in my head, I was thinking about read alouds. And how valuable read alouds are for background knowledge, for familiarity, just the oral familiarity with language, with words that does start to, um, build that mental filing cabinet that we then have more of a storehouse for, um, ongoing access to language.
[00:14:37] Olivia: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think too, um, I was kind of surprised when I saw that fostering understanding of print conventions, features, and functions. I think many people consider that more elementary or PreK work. And then I started to pause and say, wait a second, though - no, no, this is in digital texts and it's looking at, um, “online navigation across articles, ebooks, social media posts and online magazines. Exploring subject-specific structures like script formatting, lab reports, and scientific papers.”
[00:15:19] Olivia: So this is another wonderful example of what you are saying; this work goes across content. I think I told you a funny story. We were at dinner, um, a couple of nights ago. And, uh, my older son who's in college visit world, uh, SAT, ACT world, we were talking about, you know, to get in to universities these days, the rigor or expectation for GPA for, um, the standardized test scores it's so much higher. He was joking (but not really), of when my husband and I were applying to schools. And his thinking around that was because information for him and for his peers is so much more accessible that there's an expectation that they take advantage of that access, where we, he gave the example, we had to go to the library and use that microfiche machine to see newspapers and check books out.
[00:16:19] Olivia: You know, there are still libraries and many people use them. Um, but it's that vetting of the digital tools as well, and understanding how to navigate. And I will say, you know, I have seen the most beautiful thinking from student’s pencil and paper. And so I press pause every time in my mind that I see classrooms where Chromebooks are open and kids are kind of zoning out. I worry so much about an over-reliance on screens these days, um, especially since COVID. So I will still beg of educators…yes, we want students, uh, accessing digital tools. And, I think there's something to be said for students to also have post-its, their favorite pens, their favorite highlighters, and to be able to annotate, uh, whether it be an article that's printed for them or as they're reading.
[00:17:22] Olivia: And when we're talking about annotation, that is not circling. That is not underlining. That is not highlighting. It is truly having a student unzip their brain and be able to write on paper what is happening. Uh, that's thinking about thinking that metacognition. Right? So if they have a question, it's not putting a question mark, it's writing: I don't understand what this is talking about. Or it's jotting their actual question. So then when they walk away as their support facilitator, their teacher, you can know how to help them. Right? A question mark lets you know they're wondering something, but circling and underlining really doesn't help us. So I think there's something to be said about that printed copy for them to annotate and get their thinking down on.
[00:18:14] Wendy: And I have to agree completely. There have been many times where I have done the highlight or the underline, and then I've gone back and reread and I have no idea or very little idea what I was thinking the first time through. So yeah, annotation is a huge, very helpful tool.
[00:18:31] Olivia: Yeah, it is. Um, so I'm always grateful for these conversations and, um, you know, I think that idea of helping students develop a toolkit with advanced vocabulary. Um, the last just great idea and strategy I would love to share with listeners is what we have seen in action thanks to Cris Tovani's work. And she has developed these amazing think sheets that students can use, uh, graphic organizers in a sense, but really a way for students to think about text and engage with text in a variety of ways. Um, and one of them is called Connect Two, and you said, you know, being able to parse language or vocabulary is a fun game.
[00:19:17] Olivia: And her Connect Two strategy is that she does have a word bank in a, in a way, but a group of words that kids do need to understand. It could go with content area specifically. And she asks students before they jump in, to study that topic or that text, um, to try to make some connections between the words and then jot what they think the connection is. And then they go back after studying and continue to, uh, make those connections and, and sift and sort their why. It involves a lot of discourse with their peers. Um, Cris is moving around the room. So again, that 1/3 time, that's when one voice is being spoken in the classroom, whether it's a grown up or a student; 2/3 is when one voice most hopefully all of the students are engaged in a task and the teacher is facilitating instruction through one-on-one conferring or small group instruction. So, um, I think that Connect Two strategy is a really rich idea and it's it's a neat way to focus on vocabulary.
[00:20:31] Wendy: And it's simple to create to, um, you know, 10 or 12 words on a page with some spaces at the bottom; blank connects to blank because, or this makes me think of, or something. And the other, the other amazing thing about that is that there's no right answer. Because kids are connecting the words as they understand them, and then just along, similar to annotations, they're writing down there why those things connect, or how they connect to each other. So it's again, unzipping their heads and putting their thinking down on paper.
[00:21:10] Olivia: Yes. So with that said, um, we will be having another conversation; our last Brief conversation will be around Brief 7, which is more systemic. It's more, you know, policy-wise, big district thinking different. How do we put this into action? It speaks to data collection. Um, and I'm excited for that conversation. And I'm also really grateful that we have the privilege to work with so many amazing teachers at the secondary level, um, tackling this work every day, and being brave to stretch themselves in their practice. So fortunate we surely are, Wendy.
[00:20:31] Wendy: We are indeed.
[00:21:54] Olivia: Yes so thanks for taking the time to have this chat.
[00:20:31] Wendy: You bet!
[00:21:57] Olivia: Take care.
[00:21:58] Wendy: You too.
[00:21:59] Olivia: Schoolutions® is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my friend and colleague, Dr. Wendy Bunker. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.