[00:00:00] Olivia: Hi there. I'm so happy you're here. Your time is precious. And because of that, I want to let you know right away what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this episode. My conversation with Denise Goldin-Dubois helped me truly understand the power of her Three Student Protocol, I've seen it in action, and again, it is such a powerful planning and reflection tool that helps us humanize our practice, focusing on just three students at a time, but it really does also help us to improve instruction for all of our learners.

[00:00:34] Olivia: In this bonus episode, I offer my insights after speaking with Denise about what I think it takes to build trust and relationships in educational settings. I speak about why I think it's crucial to distinguish between facts and stories or inferences. Why I believe that behind every complaint or venting session with a teacher, there's a deeper value or concern that needs to be understood and heard.

[00:00:58] Olivia: Also, why building trust requires genuine care and transparency. Stay with me. I'm so happy to have you as a listener today. This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive.

[00:01:27] Olivia: I am Olivia Wahl and this is a Friday bonus episode. If you have not listened to Season four, episode 14 with Denise Goldin-DuBois, pause this episode right now and go back and do yourself the favor of learning from Denise. She speaks to her Three Student Protocol and offers a variety of ways we can ensure that we are thinking of our students through the lens of fact and true observation instead of inference and make sure that we are thinking of students assets and making decisions with three students in mind that I believe will have an impact on how you plan for all of your learners. With that said, I've thought a lot about the conversation with Denise since recording it. 

[00:02:23] Olivia: And it reminded me so much of the work that I've studied for years as a coach around how we need to connect and think of the adults that we are serving and supporting. This reflection reminded me of resources and books that I've leaned on many, many times over the years. One of them is Agents of Change: How Content Coaching Transforms Teaching and Learning.

[00:02:47] Olivia: It's written by two of my mentors, Lucy West and Toni Cameron, the foward is by Jim Knight. I'm going to go to page 69, there's a section that says, How can we use self-awareness of our emotions in coaching situations? And I can close my eyes and picture the moment when Toni and Lucy asked us as coaches to write about a situation that we had, where we would be able to distinguish fact from story.

[00:03:13] Olivia:  It could be a coaching moment we had and, um, or just even an uncomfortable conversation with a family member. I think this would be really effective for, and you write out word for word and your viewpoint, what happened. But then you go back with a highlighter and you are only able to highlight what is factual.

[00:03:38] Olivia: So, for example. If you're a coach and you hold weekly grade level meetings with a particular grade level, and there is a teacher that comes late to every grade level meeting and that person doesn't often come with things in hand to plan with, and they may be negative, sitting with their arms crossed, um, and pushing back with what other team members are wanting to do.

[00:04:06] Olivia: Well, there are some facts in that scenario, and then there's also story or inference that we tell ourselves. It is a fact that that person comes late to every meeting, but if we were to say they don't care, that is an inference. That we have no idea if they care. There, it most often is a reason behind people's actions, just like we say with children.

[00:04:31] Olivia: So, I believe as a coach, we have to take the time to ask the why behind the actions that are factual. Why is that person coming late? If it's a teacher that's in any elementary building that I'm serving, they do not get breaks during the day outside of a lunch to actually use the bathroom. This is a reality for so many educators.

[00:04:56] Olivia: And so why not start the meeting five minutes after the period begins so that everyone can get a cup of coffee or tea or water and just walk and move their bodies and come to a meeting ready. It's just as critical that we pause and make sure that when we are thinking of our relationships with the teachers we're serving, that it's all based in fact.

[00:05:27] Olivia: And another section in the book that speaks to this, it's called Painting a Teacher Portrait, and it begins on page 88, chapter 6. And what Toni and Lucy ask us to do is paint our own portrait first, before we try painting any teacher's portrait that we're serving. And something they say, I'm quoting right from the book, “Being able to put an observation in neutral terms, rather than in evaluating terms, may be the difference between having an effective, crucial conversation around teacher choices in practice. And one that veers off into recriminations that might damage the coaching relationship.” And then they go on from there to help readers, to help coaches understand what it truly means to know a teacher. And then as I turn to page 90, there are three questions and they say, “Here are some questions currently being grappled with by educators everywhere.”

[00:06:31] Olivia: And these three questions I go back to over and over again. Number one, “Is there a developmental landscape for teaching? If there is what are the critical big ideas in teaching?” Number two: “What are important strategies teachers need to develop to support student learning?” And number three: “Is there a specific skill set, a way of behaving in the classroom that distinguishes a novice from an expert teacher?”

[00:07:02] Olivia: I ask myself these questions often, and what I've been leaning on, especially with question two, is looking at John Hattie's effect size research, because it is incredibly powerful as a coach - working with teachers to look at the impact certain strategies have, looking at that .4 hinge point and above on student learning.

[00:07:26] Olivia: And you know, I'll tuck a link in the show notes to a couple of visuals that are incredible to show it may not be what you think has that impact on student engagement and learning. So it's quite fascinating. I know Lucy and Toni both believe that content coaching is about both naming and doing so we have to work on building those relationships with teachers and ensuring that it's all of our thinking, all of our actions are grounded in fact. .

[00:07:51] Olivia: And then I turn my eye to another book, I use it all the time, Coaching A-Z, The Extraordinary Use of Ordinary Words by Haesun Moon. And I think as a coach, I often lean on “V,” value and “W,” wonder. And on page 233, it says, “Venting is often our values in disguise.”

[00:08:23] Olivia: And that really strikes me because, boy, it can help to listen to someone that you may think is complaining, but ask yourself, what is what they're saying, this venting? What does it show me they really care about? And I like that perspective. I like that flip. 

[00:08:52] Olivia: And then on page 235, Haesun goes on to say, “story listening is a highly evocative activity for both the narrator and the listener. As you sit with the other and the stories told. What you listen to evokes values, what they think is worth telling, and what you think is worth hearing. In that space, you choose what to listen for.” And there's a call to action in those words because what that says to me is that we have to listen to the story behind the story or the question behind the question.

[00:09:19] Olivia: And if we're considering, as Haesun pushes us to think about purpose, preference, possibilities, and progress as lenses, she goes on to say, “the simple story of a broken policy could become a monumental milestone in the making of a promise. So behind every vent is a value.” Yes, when you go to “W,” when you go to Wonder, page 243 is how we could all be better in our relationships.

[00:09:52] Olivia: It says, “The art of advice is understanding another's life logic first.” And then, on page 245, “In coaching conversations, you are called simply to witness and wonder about how another person does their living. What is their logic for their life? Your own logic, the way you understand and organize your world, may get in the way of inquiring about their logic. If you don't try to understand their logic, your advice is, at best, a far fetched suggestion or an irrelevant opinion.”

[00:10:22] Olivia:  And then on the next page, this is what I want to practice more. “What if you approached your own advice by wondering if it may offer any value to the other?” And I think what this asks of us as coaches to do is really pause and put ourself in that teacher's shoes, listen to what they're saying.

[00:10:58] Olivia: And so I cannot recommend this book enough. It's a perfect size. Every letter gets a story and tips for coaching. I just, it's absolutely fantastic. I'm going to end with another great recent addition to my library, The Thin Book of Trust: An Essential Primer for Building Trust at Work. It's by Charles Feltman and it's the third edition.

[00:11:28] Olivia: It's revised and updated. And chapter two is called Care: We're in This Together. And I'm ending with this because I don't think, just like Denise reminded us, that anyone will grow as a learner if we don't care about them and care about each other. I want to read how Charles begins, chapter two, his words, “Care is the assessment you make about the extent to which another person considers your interests and concerns. Another aspect of care is your trust that the other person's intentions toward you are positive. That they want good for you.”

[00:12:02] Olivia: And a little deeper in that chapter, on page 23, there's a section called Building Trust: Care. So I'm going to leave you with some steps that you can take to cultivate trust in terms of care.

[00:12:22] Olivia: The first bullet that Charles offers is around intimacy and how it's fundamental to the assessment of care in a relationship. Charles says, “What is important to the person that you're trying to build that and show care towards. Know their values, hopes, dreams, and concerns. If you want people to believe you are concerned about their interests, listen to what is important to them and tell them what's important to you.”

[00:12:51] Olivia: I know teachers that check their personal lives at the door. I know people in my life that don't believe that sharing about themselves, is appropriate and boy, do I disagree with that. I don't think we can grow together unless we truly know each other. If we know what matters most to each other, it helps us understand why we react in the ways we do.

[00:13:22] Olivia: And so I, I think the idea of listening to what's important to each other and sharing what's important to us helps us coach and learn better together. The next bullet, listen to what others say and are trying to communicate and let them share - let others share without words of judgment. Third bullet, before you speak or act, ask yourself these questions.

[00:13:47] Olivia: Oh boy, do I wish I had had these sooner. “Will what I'm about to say or do serve the people I work with or for my employees, teammates and company as well as me?” I think I'm going to read that quote to my children tonight as well, because there's something about selflessness. There's something about the bigger needs of others. And not just always asking, is this only serving my needs? 

[00:14:15] Olivia: That's critical in education and developing better humans.  Skipping down a few bullets. I think this is important to remember. “If you manage people, clearly tell them what you expect from them, and what they can expect from you.” And the last bullet, “When you make decisions or take action, let people know you understand how it affects them, even if the effect is adverse.”

[00:14:52] Olivia: The idea of building trust. It goes two ways, and if we want to be our best selves, then I really believe that we have to show care. We need to listen to the stories behind the stories, ask the questions behind the questions, and be willing to have difficult conversations to get to that why. Denise reminds us that when it comes to thinking and speaking about the children in our care or adults that we're serving as coaches, make sure we're speaking in fact, make sure that our conversations are grounded in asset-based thinking.

[00:15:39] Olivia: You know, what are we doing well, and how can we build upon that foundation? Same thing with students, even if we have concerns about their lack of understanding or a lack of growth; building on a house of what is not there. It's not a very strong foundation. So I hope this was helpful. I love to offer nuggets of research that I'm leaning on tied to the topic of that week.

[00:16:07] Olivia: And Denise's Three Student Protocol is a game changer. It's a way of flipping our perception and the way we speak and think about the children in our care. I can't wait to see you next week. Until then, take care. Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl.

[00:16:28] Olivia: Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts, or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com.

[00:16:47] Olivia: Let me know how your school or district works to build trust and relationships. What are they getting right? And what could they do better? Tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care.

[00:17:08] Olivia: And stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday, where I'll share how I applied what I learned from guests in schools that week. See you then!