Teaching Reading Across the Day: Strategies for Engaging Instruction with Jennifer Serravallo

In this episode of Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, I welcome back New York Times bestselling author and educator Jennifer Serravallo to discuss her latest book, Teaching Reading Across the Day: Methods and Structures for Engaging Explicit Instruction.

Jen shares insights on:

• The importance of balancing research-based practices with teacher autonomy
• Nine different lesson structures for teaching reading throughout the school day
• How to use various grouping strategies like focus groups, guided inquiry, and conversation groups
• Incorporating socio-cultural context into reading instruction
• Practical tips for implementing these structures in the classroom

Whether you're a seasoned educator looking to enhance your practice or a pre-service teacher seeking guidance, this episode offers valuable strategies for effective reading instruction. Jen and I discuss the research behind these methods and how teachers can adapt them to meet the needs of their students.

Tune in for an enlightening conversation on making reading instruction more meaningful and complete by acknowledging students' diverse backgrounds and funds of knowledge.

Jen’s Research Recommendations:

• The Science of Reading Progresses: Communicating Advances Beyond the Simple View of Reading by Nell K. Duke & Kelly B. Cartwright (2021)
• Principles of Instruction: Research-Based Strategies That All Teachers Should Know by Barak Rosenshine (2012)

#JenniferSerravallo #TeachingReadingAcrossTheDay #ReadingStrategies #WritingStrategies #ReadingInstruction #Corwin #TeacherPD (Professional Development) #LiteracyEducation #TeachingStrategies #EducatorResources #ClassroomIdeas #ReadingTeacher #TeacherAutonomy #TeacherTips #EducationInnovation #TeacherResources #LiteracyMatters #EdChat #DifferentiatedInstruction #LiteracyAcrossTheCurriculum #TeacherEmpowerment  #TeacherPodcast

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Olivia: This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive. I am Olivia Wahl and I am happy to welcome my guest back for a second time today, the one and only Jennifer Serravallo.

[00:00:28] Olivia: Let me tell you a little bit about Jen. Jen is a New York Times bestselling author, award-winning educator, speaker, and leader of the consulting team, Literacy Strategies Consulting, LLC. In 2023, Jen launched her podcast To the Classroom: Conversations with Researchers and Educators. If you want to learn more about the podcast and how you can gain access to it, uh, check out our S2E34 conversation.

[00:00:58] Olivia: I will make sure to link that in the show notes. Today, our conversation will focus on Jen's recently released book. I have it right here. It's beautiful, uh, Teaching Reading Across the Day: Methods and Structures for Engaging Explicit Instruction. Jen, thank you so much for coming back and being a guest on Schoolutions again.

[00:01:21] Olivia: I can't wait to talk about the book. 

[00:01:23] Jennifer: Olivia, thank you for having me back. I love chatting with you.

[00:01:24] Olivia: Yes. Um, before we jumped on to record, the glaring issue that I see right now, um, and it's been for a while, I'm really worried about teachers losing autonomy and that idea of the art of teaching, um, so much of what we do in the classroom every day is, it's what transcends, it's our personality coming forth in those walls.

[00:01:50] Olivia: And, um, I think the solution I want to read right from the page is it's page two, to be exact, of your newest book. Um, so structures that you offer, um, they need to “draw on the research and also make room for the art of teaching or what Paige et al. (2021) define as the teacher's decision making that involves selection, differentiation, and delivery of engaging and efficacious reading instruction.” So what you offer in this resource that is phenomenal, um, with all the varied goals, skills, strategies, knowledge, and vocabulary that students need to learn, no matter the text or subject, as teachers, we need, here we go, predictable, efficient, trusted structures for explicit and engaging teaching.

[00:02:39] Olivia: And this is a resource, um, you don't have to read it front to back, which I appreciate it has that similar style, beautiful color coding that I always know is your signature, but also, um, it offers. Structures that carry us throughout the day, and that's what I think a lot of people have been grappling with, especially districts that have to take on curriculum and programs, which you definitely address and speak to in the book.

[00:03:06] Olivia: So, um, that's, that's what our conversation will talk to today. But, you know, I always start out every episode by having guest name and educator that's inspired them. So who's on your mind these days? 

[00:03:20] Jennifer: I wasn't prepared for this. I should have been, but let's see. I will talk about, I'm going to talk about my Haitian dance teacher, Julio Jean.

[00:03:31] Jennifer: Um, I have reconnected with this amazing dance teacher. I, when I was new to New York city, I moved to New York city right after college and I started taking dance classes at the Djoniba Drum & Dance Center. It's like West African, Haitian, Cuban, um, dance styles. And, um, I loved this teacher. I love this class.

[00:03:48] Jennifer: It's the kind of class I would just leave like beaming, live drumming. And it's just so fun. Everyone there was so joyful. And so I moved to New Jersey, left the city. Yeah. Started raising my kids. It's been years and years and years since connecting with him. And it turns out he also moved to New Jersey and he teaches at the dance studio not too far from me.

[00:04:08] Jennifer: So it's a total, um, happenstance that I landed in his class again and I literally left crying the first time. What a powerful, uh, What a powerful thing for, for, uh, for a teacher to bring such, uh, such a joy to, he clearly loves with every fiber of his being what he's teaching and it comes through in his teaching style.

[00:04:31] Jennifer: Um, and it's really humbling, I think, for a teacher like me to be like, almost like a beginner again, you know, and to engage in things that, that, that help us think about how do we learn something from the beginning? So, um, that's something I'm enjoying. It's summer, so I'll, I'll talk about that. 

[00:04:48] Olivia: It's good to, it's good to go back. I think, um, I've said to my boys, I picked up ukulele a while ago, like years ago, but then I just let it fade. Life gets super busy. It was one of the COVID like pickup type of things. And I am insistent on getting back into it. This summer. And so just, it's crazy though, starting from scratch, I think was something and realizing, you know, with music, especially your brain remembers certain things.

[00:05:16] Olivia: It feels like it's getting back on a bicycle. Um, I'm wondering if it's the same with dance. Did you feel like you, once you were back into it, the groove was there. 

[00:05:24] Jennifer: Definitely. I mean, there's definitely a vocabulary to this style and some of it's there, like muscle memory and some of it I'm having to relearn a bit, but you know, some of the rhythms are familiar enough.

[00:05:37] Jennifer: They're kind of ingrained in me, but yeah. There's a little bit of starting from the beginning again, but I, I think it's so important. I say this to all, all teachers that I talked to, like, it's great to do something where you are a real beginner. Cause it gives you empathy. I think for all the new stuff we're asking kids to do every day in the classroom.

[00:05:54] Jennifer: So it sure does. 

[00:05:55] Olivia: Yeah, it sure does. What I appreciate is that there are so many structures, um, within this book that I was like, yes, I love the consistency in that idea of parallel practice. So not only are you offering structures that we can implement in the classroom. classroom. Your book is structured in a way that's so predictable and consistent.

[00:06:14] Olivia: And that's what I love about your writing as well. Some of my favorite sections, I'll tell you right now. I love the lesson structure overview that gives that breakdown. The planning templates are amazing. Um, I really love the responsive teaching with the if then choices and if is not just about students, it's if you're in this class, Scenario is a teacher with your school district, which is great.

[00:06:38] Olivia: Um, I also so appreciate your talking about dance vocabulary. Um, there's a common understanding that has to be in place if we're having conversations around these structures. So you give just enough of some. Vocabulary about each of the structures. That's beautiful for having PLC constructive conversations, but just professional learning in general.

[00:07:04] Olivia: Um, I also, you know, I lingered a lot with the timing and the pacing because you offer very explicit minute-by-minute breakdowns. So those are some of my favorite structures in the book. What it's a lot, it's a lot. What are some of your favorites? What were you excited to include? 

[00:07:22] Jennifer: Um, I love the video. Um, so every chapter, so the book is organized, for those that don't have it yet, there, there's a few chapters that are introductory, and then there's one chapter for each of nine different lesson structures, and within each chapter, I offer a teaching vignette at the beginning that sort of tells the story of a lesson, and then there's two or three videos that show an example of me teaching in a classroom.

[00:07:46] Jennifer: Um, so I love these for a few reasons. One is in every chapter I try to include examples from primary, upper elementary, middle school, so a wide grade range. I tried to include English language arts, science, and social studies, so a wide subject range, um. And, um, they're really real. Like they're really real.

[00:08:07] Jennifer: I don't know if you've done filming in classes. You probably have, but it's, um, it's a whirlwind. Like you are moving very quickly. I told the camera crew who hadn't filmed in schools before, I was like, just follow me and we're going to just keep going, right? While we're not doing any retakes, we're not doing any, like, No, authentic is what it is, and we barely edited the video at all.

[00:08:30] Jennifer: Like it is, it's what you see is, is really what happened in the classroom. Um, so I like the authenticity of it. And I like that, um, that I, I decided to sort of call out decisions that I made. During those lessons on lesson templates, so you can kind of see, like, this was planning to do. But here's why I made it.

[00:08:52] Jennifer: Yeah, this was this is what I wanted to do. But then the kids did this. So then I chose to do this instead. So what you're seeing are like my real time revisions. And I let you in a little bit on why I made those choices. So back to the art of teaching, like, if you have a curriculum and you have the lesson planned for you, or if you create your own plan, it doesn't matter.

[00:09:14] Jennifer: You're going to have to make changes on the spot. You're going to have to use your creativity, your judgment, your responsiveness, your, you know, thinking, you know, on the spot, and you're going to have to make changes. And that is what makes a lesson. Sing or not, you know, it's it's the extent to which you're really adapting and adjusting and responding to the kids in front of you 

[00:09:34] Olivia: It it is and what I appreciate also with the vignettes.

[00:09:37] Olivia: You just reminded me. I love how they're annotated as well So they have the call out boxes And it's critical that we're vulnerable as teachers. And that's what I also appreciate. It's with the, um, relevancy and the authenticity, you naming like, look, this is what I had planned and yet this happened because it's life in the classroom.

[00:09:59] Olivia: There's no scripted curriculum that can address kids in front of you necessarily. So with the structures being. Laid out that offers teachers the autonomy to say, Okay, this is what I'm navigating right now. These are the structures that I'm going to use. So there's that flexibility, but you have to understand what each of the structures are and how they work in order to pick and choose the way you're teaching across the curriculum.

[00:10:24] Olivia: Um, so I just, I appreciate that. And then, so I added up cause I'm, I love to look at minutes and schedules. And so let's talk because here schedules on paper, I can make the most beautiful schedules color coded. And I know so many teachers that do the same thing. And then the first week of school happens and they're like.

[00:10:47] Olivia: Oh, this didn't work out how I anticipated. So you offer that very detailed minute by minute breakdown for each of the structures. And when I added the minutes, it ranged from 113 minutes to 100 with adding all of them up. So if someone in this is where I think there could be a misconception, because with teaching reading across the day.

[00:11:13] Olivia: In my understanding, it doesn't mean that you're going to use every structure every day, and so I wanted to dispel this, right? So if someone looked at this and said, okay, I want to teach every structure, the max amount of minutes with all of your ranges was 145 minutes, and we know that typically a school day runs about 360 minutes, um, with everything said and done.

[00:11:38] Olivia: So, um, I want you to speak to, you know, how did first of all you land on these minute by minute breakdowns? And then again, the intent is not that you would use every structure every day, is it? 

[00:11:50] Jennifer: Not at all. And, you know, honestly, I kept playing with the idea of adding a final chapter that showed how to put it all together.

[00:12:00] Jennifer: Interesting. 

[00:12:00] Olivia: Okay. 

[00:12:00] Jennifer: Yeah. Because I think this is going to be a question a lot of people have, like, well, which ones do I choose? For my class, or what is a whole day schedule look like? So for people who haven't seen the book, it's everything from close reading, read aloud, shared reading, phonics, right? So these lessons, these nine lesson types, you're not going to use them all every day.

[00:12:19] Jennifer: What I do in the book is I explain what is this lesson for? Who is it for? When's it for? What's it for? When would I make a choice to include this lesson? If I'm a seventh-grade science teacher, I'm not doing phonics and spelling lessons hopefully at all.

[00:12:38] Jennifer: That one, I'm not even going to choose. If I'm a third-grade teacher, I might not even be choosing phonics and spelling lessons at all. I may really be more for kindergarten first, maybe the beginning of second, depending on your kids. Um, and it also might be that I have kids who are actually quite advanced in phonics and spelling, even though I'm a first-grade teacher, and I'm choosing to use that as a small group structure.

[00:12:58] Jennifer: I'm not using it as a whole class structure. So this is the other thing about each of these lesson types is they can be used in small group, in whole class, and in some cases, even just one-on-one if you're doing conferring in your classroom. So my, my vision is that people are mixing and matching, and they're making choices based on the students in front of them, based on their data, and what a September day looks like.

[00:13:19] Jennifer: In a second-grade classroom might be different than a June day, of course, you might start off the year doing a lot more foundational skills work. So, including things like the reader's theater lessons to get them with their fluency to the phonics and spelling to shore up those phonics and spelling lessons.

[00:13:33] Jennifer: Maybe you're doing shared reading to help them apply their phonics and spelling, but by the end of the year, maybe you're shifting a lot more toward and then, of course, you're going to do read a lot every day. Right. Um, but by the end of the year, maybe you're going to start playing with a little close reading lesson.

[00:13:46] Jennifer: Maybe you're going to be adding more conversation lessons. So it depends on what the kids need and what your goals are for their reading skills, their reading strategy. And also it depends on what texts you're using, whether you're choosing the text or the texts are, um, ones that are, you know, kind of assigned within your curriculum.

[00:14:03] Jennifer: You might have also be looking at the text and saying, um, You know, this is a text, let's just say that the curriculum is recommending that kids are reading independently and summarizing on their own. And I'm looking at this text and I'm thinking, They're not going to do very well reading this totally on their own, so I'm going to choose a lesson structure to give a little more support, and I might choose to do this as a shared reading lesson where we'll do some choral reading and echo reading so that I give them that support, and then maybe they'll reread it independently and then do the summarizing tasks that it asks for.

[00:14:34] Jennifer: So it could be that the text is driving what your lesson choices are. It could be that the goals that you have for that particular unit. It could be what your data is showing, what your kids need. Um, so anyway, I didn't write that last chapter because it's like, it depends. And I realized to answer that question well, I probably would need to write a whole other book.

[00:14:55] Jennifer: I would need to show like different. Profile scenarios. This classroom, this grade level. This is the kids data. This is what it shows. You know, this this part of the year. This is what their content studies are doing. Here's how I craft the day. And here's why. So it's probably just too much for a chapter.

[00:15:12] Olivia: I guess it's also, I liked that. You didn't include that because it's also saying that you trust teachers to make that decision. Right? And so I think that's something teachers are not feeling a lot. These days is that they are decision makers based on the Children in their room.

[00:15:31] Olivia: So I took it as no, you're giving us the structures and then we can rock it. And I feel the same for instructional coaches that you can do some gorgeous coaching work around looking at evidence of student learning. And then you're giving us the open door to conversations. So I didn't, I didn't think it needed to be a chapter, but it was a lingering wondering of what you as the author were hoping for.

[00:15:56] Olivia: Um, and I think in my background, being in the literacy world specifically for over twenty, gosh, twenty five years now, it's not, um, you know, my original training was really, you know, Strategy groupings, uh, guided reading as small group options. And then eventually I got to a point, um, with mentorship from Ginny Lockwood from yesteryear.

[00:16:20] Olivia: Uh, she is one of my favorite people, but she taught me, no, Libby, you can take everything. Any of these structures and shrink them to a small group based on the needs of your kids, which was so illuminating and freeing. In this resource, you speak to focus groups, guided inquiry groups, conversation groups, and then you also highlight readers theater.

[00:16:42] Olivia: So I'd love for you to explain and describe what those different groupings are and what they look and feel like, because those, that terminology may be newer to people. 

[00:16:52] Jennifer: Yeah, sure. Okay, so I'll start with Reader's Theater since I mentioned that one already. Sure. So Reader's Theater, um, probably a lot of people know about it from Chase Young's work and Tim Rasinski's work.

[00:17:03] Jennifer: They've been champions of Reader's Theater for a long time. Huge research base showing how it supports not just fluency, but also comprehension. Um, it's just really fun for kids. It's really engaging. There have been studies done specifically with boys to show how helps engage boys who are needing more skills.

[00:17:19] Jennifer: And so basically readers theater is you're taking a script could be something that you all created yourself. It could be something that you found online or is part of your curriculum. Um, I think you could also play with like Poems for Two Voices or speeches or like write any of those kinds of texts.

[00:17:36] Jennifer: And the kids read them and reread them many times across a week or two weeks, and then have a sort of low-stakes performance, which means no props, no staging. They just got their share. They're still reading. And I think the reason why this is so research based is because the rereading that kids do, um, is, is something that's just really supportive of comprehension and fluency.

[00:17:58] Jennifer: And they're just rereading with real intention and purpose. Um, so what my spin on this is, is you can turn these. practices into ready made small group lessons, and they can look a little different depending on how, you know, where the students are in their, um, familiarity with the script. So if it's day one and I show a video of this, you might be sitting with them doing sort of shared reading of this script, pausing to answer questions about, um, uh, vocabulary that they don't understand or, um, uh, vocabulary pausing to check for understanding to make sure that they're checking what's happening, giving them feedback on their fluency when they're reading the script.

[00:18:38] Jennifer: And then I show another video where the kids have had the script for a few days, but I'm still coaching into their reading with expression and they're using punctuation to make their voices really sound like the characters. So, um, so anyway, I think these are like ready made small groups. And I'm imagining the rest of the class is also off in groups, practicing their scripts and you're moving around sort of coaching in.

[00:18:59] Jennifer: So these are, you know, five, ten-minute lessons really quick, but you're very focused in supporting them with strategies and skills that they need support. Guided inquiry could be whole class or small group. Guided inquiry is, um, a very structured inquiry-based lesson. Where the teacher has predetermined what you want the kids to be getting out of the text, and you guide them and lead them through questions to help them discover things about the text.

[00:19:26] Jennifer: Um, so, or the text could be that they're watching something, right? They could be watching the video. Yeah, it could be watching, uh, they could be doing a fishbowl like we're watching students in conversation and you're watching and noticing. Um, it could be that I'm inquiring about my own work, like, in the text be my own reading notebook or my own assessments that I've taken.

[00:19:51] Jennifer: Yes, I'm trying to think about what goals do I have for myself? Um, and what do I want to work on next as a reader? And so the teacher asks questions and guides the student to come to understandings about their own work, about the fishbowl conversation group, about the text that they're studying. Um, so it could be a lot of different things that are being studied and being thought about.

[00:20:12] Jennifer: Um, and I find that small group is really nice to do this kind of lesson structure. Because there's so much back and forth between you and the students and kids just get a lot of feedback and a lot of guidance and practice. 

[00:20:22] Olivia: It feels like with a guided inquiry that although the grown-up usually knows what they're guiding toward, that the questions they're selecting still feel open-ended enough that students feel like they're on a journey as they're discovering it.

[00:20:39] Olivia: Um, and I think what I love that you just said is that grown up students So going back to the coaching conversation, I feel like a lot of learning labs or inquiry based lab work that can happen. Teachers have a particular target. They may be working on themselves, but there's a bigger question that's posed to the group about a practice or a belief that we may be stuck around that we need to do some inquiry work where we know where we hope to get.

[00:21:05] Olivia: But I like the openness that's still there versus focus lessons. It's like, Kind of, it feels like, you know, right, going in, right? 

[00:21:14] Jennifer: Yeah, the guided inquiry at one of the videos, I was doing a fishbowl with a fourth grade class and I was expecting them to have a really good model. I was expecting that, but I wasn't expecting the kids that are watching to nail it so well.

[00:21:28] Jennifer: And so I had ready all these questions that to like really scaffold and help them notice and observe, but they just really, they were so good. Really readily, really easily. We're able to kind of name some of the things. So I had to switch gears myself. So that's another part of I just wanted to mention with guided inquiry is the kids will really surprise you.

[00:21:44] Jennifer: Yeah. And you do have to think on your feet and adjust the amount of support that they need based on. What they're giving you back, um, but focus lessons. So focus lessons, I've really written about strategy lessons before people may have read my writing about strategy lessons. People may be familiar with mini lessons.

[00:22:01] Jennifer: People may be familiar with coaching conferences. I decided to group them all. 

[00:22:06] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:22:07] Jennifer: Coaching conferences, strategy lessons, mini-lessons under one umbrella and called them a focus lesson. And the reason is because I'm focusing on just one strategy. There's strategies in really all these lessons. So I felt like it’s a misnomer to call only one kind of a lesson a strategy lesson, because there really are strategies in read aloud.

[00:22:26] Jennifer: They're strategies in closed reading. They're strategies in reader's theater. So I renamed them just not to cause confusion. But the point of these lessons is to really give kids practice with one specific strategy. Um, and it's very You know, intentional. My, demonstrations about the strategy, my feedback about the strategy were in and out in, like, seven minutes.

[00:22:45] Jennifer: It's very quick. 

[00:22:47] Olivia: Well, and that's what I appreciate. You already spoke to this a little bit that the idea of focus is a whole group based on need or the small group or 1 on 1, as you just said. And so it is so focused. I also, um, I think it's so critical to think of how we're choosing to model. So you just said, you know, you're in and out in seven minutes, but it also helps you decide the structure you're selecting, right?

[00:23:09] Olivia: And so if you know, you're trying to model character development or motivation and you're, you can use a picture book. So you're going to use read aloud as the structure. The structure that you're going to either go back to refer to something you've already read. Um, but if you're looking at, uh, I don't know, looking at vocabulary within context, you could use shared reading and pull an excerpt up or close reading, pull an excerpt up that you've already unpacked.

[00:23:34] Olivia: So that idea of the focus helps you very carefully choose the structure. So then clarify for me and listeners, what is a conversation group then? 

[00:23:45] Jennifer: So this I'm thinking of like a literature circle or a book club, or if it's a whole class, it could be a grand conversation or a whole class conversation. And I think a lot of teachers have kids in discussion groups at some point, and these are ready made small groups, right?

[00:24:00] Jennifer: So we can teach into what's happening in these, in these small groups or in this whole class. And I'm really thinking about in this kind of a lesson, I'm thinking about What are their conversational skills or speaking and listening skills? Like, are they taking turns? Are they staying on topic? Are they debating respectfully?

[00:24:17] Jennifer: Those kinds of things. And then I'm also thinking about their comprehension skills because sometimes a good conversation depend, or I shouldn't say sometimes good conversations usually depend on having something good to talk about. Yes. The conversation is very literal - this is what happened in the text.

[00:24:32] Jennifer: I agree. This is what happened in the text. We're not going to get very far, right? So I'm going into a conversation lesson. Really listening first, I'm observing, I'm listening, and from that I'm noticing, do kids need help with conversation skills, comprehension skills, and then I'll teach one strategy and stick around for a little bit to guide them through that strategy.

[00:24:53] Jennifer: So it's like a strategy. It's like a sorry, focus lesson or strategy lesson where I'm teaching a strategy and I'm guiding them through it. But I find that I often start those off by listening and observing to make a decision about what to teach. 

[00:25:05] Olivia: Yeah, I would say to something that's always been fascinating to me is a teacher.

[00:25:11] Olivia: Sometimes in the conversation groups, you'd think that a question posed that the kids are going to respond in a certain way. So if you're asking them to infer, you're hoping that they share thinking off the page and yet you're listening. And so that's why I'm thrilled. You just mentioned you have to. To listen.

[00:25:28] Olivia: You have to stick around because if they're just recounting or retelling, then, you know, you have some deeper work you've got to do. So it's not just throwing questions out there or if the kids are posing questions and they're not responding to each other in that deep way, then you have to coach around it.

[00:25:46] Olivia: So just interesting. 

[00:25:48] Jennifer: And I'm always trying to think about when I'm guiding or I'm teaching into conversation there. There is a way I can help the conversation, but it got go go better by just giving them really rich questions to discuss. Yes. But then how am I setting them up to then have a successful conversation without me?

[00:26:05] Jennifer: So I'm thinking it's like a, you know, teach a man to fish thing, you know, like, how can I teach them to come up with better questions? Can I articulate for them a strategy, a series of steps they can follow to come up with richer questions so that the conversation goes even better. So I'm less likely to interrupt the conversation and say, hey, why don't you guys talk about the symbolism and the theme? Or what'd you think about this part of the story? Um, and more likely to teach them how to come up with those good questions. 

[00:26:31] Olivia: Yeah. So something I also thought another use, cause the videos are brilliant. I also was thinking I may show children the clips and have them analyze the conversations because they, they're so incredible about.

[00:26:45] Olivia: watching other kids and how they navigate the conversation. So I thought that could be another brilliant use for it. 

[00:26:52] Jennifer: And then you can do a guided inquiry lesson where you get like a fishbowl. There you go. 

[00:26:57] Olivia: So many layers of awesome possibilities. I so enjoyed, um, the seasons that you released up to the classroom and something that I've been working.

[00:27:09] Olivia: Diligently, the especially the last few years is to make sure that research always has my back. Um, a teacher lens and instructional coaching lens. And you have a section in every chapter with it's a 1 pager. All research that backs that specific structure. I'm interested to hear from you because with to the classroom, the structure of the podcast was you'd interview the researchers themselves, which was fascinating to hear their perspective of how they hoped the research was being applied and depicted, but then after with your colleagues and team, you'd unpack that research and then.

[00:27:49] Olivia: Hence the title, uh, how it offers, how it can be applied to the classroom. With this book, I often think as a coach, if I'm a teacher in the classroom, I'm delighted to know there's research that has my back if I'm choosing these structures, but then I also wonder, how do you hope. Educators use the research beyond just knowing that they're supporting their practice are supported it.

[00:28:14] Jennifer: That's a great question. Um, I think most, I think my audience for this book is practicing classroom teachers. 

[00:28:22] Jennifer: Yeah, and I'm hoping also pre-service teachers who are maybe in college classes. I think this would be a great book for Yeah, yeah. Like, uh, the, the college methods or what is it called? The like teaching reading methods, right?

[00:28:34] Jennifer: The year-long course that we all took when we were starting to be teachers. Um, I think this would be a great book for, for that as well. So for the practicing classroom teacher, I think you're right. I think they want to know, I'm glad the research has my back. I want to know that there is research to support this practice, but can you just show me how to do it?

[00:28:51] Jennifer: And like, let me, let me, they're probably going to spend more time in the videos, the lesson templates. Teachers are busy and we want to really understand, like, what's the best way to do this? Like, what works right for pre service teachers? I think they want to know that, but I think they might also maybe read some of the original studies.

[00:29:09] Jennifer: I could see this being paired with the actual research, you know, for for people in college or for professors, they could easily pull some of these studies down and they can look at them together and they could do some of that thinking of how does the research apply to this practice and vice versa. Um, you know, interestingly, when I did, when I wrote the reading strategies book 2.0, I worked with this amazing research assistant and that book ended up with over 700 citations. It's crazy. It's pretty easy. I shouldn't say that he did a lot of work, but it was we definitely had enough studies about the strategies. To say like this exact strategy has been studied to research.

[00:29:51] Jennifer: And here's the here's the research to show it for this book, though. I find that methods aren't studied as much. 

[00:29:58] Olivia: Oh, that's interesting. 

[00:29:59] Jennifer: Okay. So you're going to notice that the research citations aren't always this particular method, like a focus lesson has been studied. And here's the results. You're going to find like, um, like for shared reading, for example, you'll, you'll find that I've cited studies about echo reading studies about coral reading, or I've cited studies about repeated rereadings, or I've said, so it's like the elements and aspects that are part of the lesson structure are based on research, but the actual structure itself, I think researchers aren't sending these things because they're just messier. Maybe right. So it's interesting. I think it's really interesting to see what even can be studied and what what really is in the domain of teacher expertise, which brings you back to the teacher autonomy.

[00:30:47] Jennifer: Like, I, I say, we have to honor and understand the research, but we have to make space for teacher expertise and teacher decision-making. Um, and this is something we are really experts on, how to, how to deliver a really good lesson and what makes it really good.

[00:31:03] Olivia: Yeah. And you trust people to make those decisions, which again, I appreciate.

[00:31:08] Olivia: So I think one other huge aspect that I appreciated in the book is around the socio-cultural context and. There was a quote that I've read over and over and over, and this is what I wanted to end the conversation on because I also think it's a layer that a lot of people may not consider enough when they're thinking of teaching and being a literate person in general, um, So you say, when we learn about the social, cultural, and linguistic backgrounds and rich funds of knowledge that students bring to the school and to their reading, provide opportunities for students to be social around their reading, and acknowledge that literacy practices are purposeful and embedded in social goals and cultural practices, our reading instruction will be more meaningful than ever.

[00:31:59] Olivia: And complete. Yes, it's good. It's a good because that's what this is all about. And that's what I fear that we're losing sight of. You know, our Children have so much and their caregivers have so much to bring with that rich background that we can use, um, to just enhance everything we do. Um, and so I'm grateful that this book is out there in the world, Jen.

[00:32:28] Olivia: I'm grateful to have this conversation. What's the best way for folks to get in touch with you if they want to reach out? 

[00:32:36] Jennifer: My website is my name, www.jenniferserravallo.com, so you can contact me there, um, online on Twitter at jserravallo, Instagram at jenniferserravallo, and my Facebook group is The Reading and Writing Strategies Community.

[00:32:48] Jennifer: Any of those ways. I try to respond to everybody. If you, you write to me and I haven't heard it's because Facebook put it into a secret folder somewhere. Does this happen to you? Like the messages don't show up, but to everybody that writes to me. 

[00:33:02] Olivia: You are the most responsive human I've ever met in my life.

[00:33:06] Olivia: It's always impressive. And, you know, I usually ask. for a call to action. Um, what I would say is I appreciate so much. You just offered pre-service teachers. Um, I think we need to shake it up in education. If you're a seasoned teacher and you want to read to enhance your practice and the crazy world of reading we're living in right now, I think this is a great first start, um, for you to just feel like you're shoring up your practices.

[00:33:35] Olivia: And again, to know that. You have our backs, Jen, but also the research does. So thank you for this, um, beautiful resource. Thank you so much. Yeah. Take care. Schoolutions is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Jen Serravallo. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background.

[00:33:59] Olivia: You can listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe and watch on YouTube. Don't forget to reach out, to share your coaching and teaching strategies with me. You can leave me a voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com.

[00:34:19] Olivia: Tune in every Monday, this school year. You will hear coaching and teaching strategies that you can immediately apply to better the lives of the students and children in your care. I look forward to having you join our conversation next Monday. Take care.