Empowering Coaches: Strategies for Impactful Data Team Participation with Julie Wright

In this episode of Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, I welcome back Julie Wright, a veteran educator and instructional coach, for an insightful discussion on the role of coaches in data meetings. 

Together, we unpack the evolving terms RtI (Response to Intervention) and MTSS (Multi-Tiered System of Support) and delve into how coaches can use qualitative and quantitative data to enhance their impact. 

Julie shares actionable strategies for fostering collaboration, balancing coaching approaches, and ensuring that every student's strengths are at the forefront of educational planning. 

Coaches, teachers, and administrators alike will walk away with fresh insights and tools to better support their school communities.

✨Don’t forget to check out my last conversation with Julie, S2 E24: Solving Problems of Practice When It Comes to Our Current RtI Models.  Here are Julie’s other recommended resources. 

#InstructionalCoaching #RTI #MTSS #DataDrivenTeaching #EducationPodcast #CoachingInEducation #StudentSuccess #CollaborativeTeaching #TeacherSupport #EducationStrategies #StudentCenteredLearning #ProfessionalDevelopment #K12Education #InstructionalStrategies #PodcastForEducators #WhatsOurResponse #JulieWright #JulieWrightConsulting

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Olivia: This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive. I am Olivia Wahl and I am so happy to welcome Julie Wright back to the podcast.

[00:00:26] Olivia: She has already been a guest in Season two, Episode 24, and I'm so excited because you'll hear again from Julie and James Goldberg, uh, Season four, Episode 33 coming out April, 2025. Today, our conversation is going to focus on data meetings and how they should or should not involve coaches. Julie, you have vast experience when it comes to RtI that I think that term I'm pretty sure is now shifting more to MTSS.

[00:00:58] Olivia: We can talk about that. Um, the previous episode, we talked all about your book that I use constantly to dip in and out of, um, I have it right here. I'll show listeners again: What's Our Response. And so it's, it's such an amazing tool. Um, but first I am interested to know from you, what is a piece of research or a researcher that sticks with you or that you refer to all the time.

[00:01:25] Julie: It's so great to be with you. And, um, I know that I don't thank you enough for all of the amazing work that you do on this podcast and how much it helps teachers, and coaches, and administrators. What's beautiful about it; I'll just give a little, uh, my own little personal, um, testimonial is, um, because I support schools on the road and I'm, I'm often there by invitation.

[00:01:52] Julie: Um, I come and I go and I try to make myself available as much as possible, but sometimes when you leave, you know, that there's just more that you could give to the community - teachers - and I often refer, um, to all the work that you're doing on Schoolutions as, as a way to, um, have like beautiful parting gifts that are more voices than just my own.

[00:02:11] Julie: So, thank you. Keep it coming. Um, we're smarter because of it. 

[00:02:13] Olivia: Thank you. 

[00:02:14] Julie: When you asked me, um, if I would have a conversation with you about, uh, this topic, I was super excited because oftentimes, um, we, we forget that coaches need to be fed just as much as everyone else in the school system. And I am always thankful for that.

[00:02:34] Julie: And I reached back into like my old tools because it's this time of year that we're recording. It's, you know, the launch of the year. And I reached back into when you asked me the question: Is there someone that I channel or someone that I'm thinking about or someone that, um, sort of guides me? I almost every fall for the last, 15 years, potentially, um, I reread, uh, Joellen Killion’s, um, article where she talks about: Are you coaching heavy? Are you coaching light?

[00:03:02] Julie: And it's such a great reminder for me. Now, I don't always define coaching heavy and light the way that she does. She does a beautiful job. That article was written, I think, back in 2007 or 2008. She does a great job talking about how coaches come on to the scene and how in those days coaches, how the kind of value that they added to schools, which is so very true today as well.

[00:03:30] Julie: But, you know, she talks about this idea of heavy and light, and she talks about neither are right or wrong, but both are needed. And so I've, I've leaned into that during my entire coaching time, knowing that like when you coach light, you're really working hard at that surface level. Yeah. That's not a bad thing.

[00:03:47] Julie: That's a good thing of getting to know people and building relationships and earning the trust of the people that you work with and the trust of children and the trust of classrooms. And that that's super important if we want to coach heavy, which is that, um, shift to making an impact and not because the coach is there, but because there's a coach-teacher-student relationship that moves the work forward.

[00:04:12] Julie: And I think that's a pretty, pretty important thing for us to remember as we start the year. Maybe as we come back from a break, if it's mid-year, and maybe even as we end a school year, as we reflect on what happened. So I think it's really applicable lots of times, but I always read it in the fall because it kind of inspires me.

[00:04:29] Olivia: Yeah, that's a good one. It's a good one. And it really leads beautifully into the question I have for you. I am in need of strategies and you are my person. I reach out to, um, and just to clarify, Julie, for everyone listening, is the term or the acronym RtI, is that now shifting to MTSS? 

[00:04:51] Julie: It depends on where you are, you know, uh, there are still like that legislation came out many, many, many years ago, and the term was RtI and that was the term we used for almost a whole decade and then MTSS came to be because a lot of places, I don't disagree, are looking at it from multiple views and multiple tiers of support. Multiple avenues and pathways for kids were super important. And then, you know, there's other terms. There's RtI2. And there's a PBIS; and the list goes on and on. 

[00:05:31] Julie: What's most important is that schools and systems, whether it's mandated through a certain way or name or whether it's just good practice that there are support teams gathering around tables, which, by the way, was happening long before RtI actually came along. It just was a little less formal. Um, and maybe in some ways, um, more beneficial at times, depending that's a whole other conversation, but the idea of having, um, a support team that's in the spirit of: we're not going to do this work alone. We're going to do it together and that kids are our number one client. 

[00:06:06] Olivia: So let me ask you the question then. Working with coaches, being a coach's coach myself, I'll say, I support so many different school districts that have different approaches to who is at that table. Um, and I've interviewed other school districts or teachers, um, that some teachers are frustrated.

[00:06:27] Olivia: They don't have a seat at the table when it comes to speaking of their children. They have other reps that they've got to share data and information with. So, who should be at the table? And how can coaches make sure that if and when they are there, they're getting the most information to support the teachers that they're working with?

[00:06:48] Julie: Yeah. I'm going to tell you my opinion, which I think is what you're asking, right? But I do think I'll start by reminding people that you really got to, you really got to size up the people and the time that people have. And so if we want to build capacity in schools, we have to make sure that we are matching, um, people's strengths and know how with the roles at hand.

[00:07:14] Julie: And so, for my work, I try to build capacity by saying, who are the people that A, have an interest in this work, And everyone should have an interest that it's not to say that people don't have an interest, but we but we have this, some people have a natural knack toward data while other people don't.

[00:07:32] Julie: So my role is to always make sure that people who can help facilitate the conversation are at the table. Always. That might be a team leader on a grade-level team. I'm always hopeful the coach is a part of that, because I actually think they have a different viewpoint than a classroom teacher might or a specialist might just the same as I would say.

[00:07:53] Julie: I hope that the specialist in the teacher around the table as well, because all of those multiple viewpoints are really important. What's probably even more important to me is that when we have coaches leading or co-leading that that we start by naming kids' assets, that's the number one struggle for these types of meetings is that we get in such a hurry.

[00:08:17] Julie: And I'm using we because we've all been here. We, time is not on our side and we're trying to problem solve and we're trying to support kids. But if we pause and say, whoever's leading that meeting, and I think a coach is a great way to start, because as a coach, you can circle people up around the table and have been in classrooms with the number one job of collecting some assets and reminding teachers that their hard work is paying off, that kids are learning, and that kids, Can you know, coaches could go in and kid watch.

[00:08:50] Julie: They can study kids. They can collect those assets. And while they're doing that, the natural tone is to say, there are some things that probably could be lifted here. That's the natural work that we do. If we're able to have coaches go in and find multifaceted data to highlight what students can do, and then uncover these sort of entry points for ways that we could support kids.

[00:09:14] Julie: This is the natural way to look at not only, uh, qualitative, but quantitative data to make some decisions out of the gate. And so we sort of like, don't lose any time by spinning our wheels. Um, the other beautiful thing that happens is that when coaches or a team leader, or even assistant principal, if that's the role that they want to take when they go in and they start modeling how to kid watch or how that can shape a data team, um, outcome for kids.

[00:09:46] Julie: Then we can share the load and we can say, alright, so the next time we get ready to circle up as a teacher, go ahead and kid watch as well, or I'll, I'll, I'll be in your classroom teaching more while you kid watch. And there's this shared experience where we are all collecting data that really, really matters efficiently and effectively, and oftentimes equitably so that we have less time sitting in data meetings talking about the past, and more time talking about: What's the state of affairs and what are we going to do about it?

[00:10:18] Julie: Um, I appreciate more than anything when you have that kind of a meeting as a coach, which is what I am most of the time is then we have all these entry points. When we have problems of practice, when things are going well, we can go in and support that.

[00:10:35] Julie: And when things are a little rough or a little tricky or a little clunky, we can go in and support that. 

[00:10:40] Olivia: So it's interesting too, because I just had a Zoom meeting yesterday with a group of coaches and my mentor coach, Sam Bennett, um, that we're talking about, you know, what would you like to focus on as a coach?

[00:10:54] Olivia: And most of, um, the people were talking about using information, using data to inform their upcoming coaching work with a teacher that would impact the lives of students. And we were talking about the fact that when you're sitting at those meetings, um, or at a grade-level meeting, just looking at the pure data can sometimes just be really monotonous, and it's not fair to children.

[00:11:22] Olivia: And so looking at that trifecta of, yes, the data source. But also, who is this child? Who is this person? Who is the student? What do they love? Uh, what, what are they passionate about? And, um, you know, what are they concerned with? And keeping that stance of curiosity, I think is absolutely critical. So, um, when we are, you keep mentioning entry points, thinking of entry points, how can coaches leave those data meetings or take notes in those data meetings to inform their upcoming coaching cycles?

[00:11:59] Olivia: Specifically, do you have strategies for that? What do you note when you're in those meetings as a coach? 

[00:12:06] Julie: Yeah, that's such a great question. I have a couple of tools that I use the one that comes to mind more times than not. And I, I kind of have an old-fashioned coaching clipboard where it's actually - I have everything digital, but I like things in my fingers. And so I'll have in my notebook, for example, I'll have sometimes these little half sheets that just remind me as a coach, really good, um, informative practices that I can lean on. Cause sometimes when you're in the moment, you're like, you have 14 things. Your brain is, you know, you're, everything is firing at the same time.

[00:12:37] Julie: Yeah. Um, when I'm thinking about, you know, because our work in coaching is to help make change, make change toward the better. That doesn't mean everything needs change that can be really miss, you know, misunderstood. But this idea of these five, five questions that I ask teachers all the time, I'll say based on the data that we see with this kiddo or this group of kids, or this unit, we're about to teach that we now know more about because of the unit we just taught, whatever that The thing is that we're investigating, you know, I say, is there something that we want to add new to our routines or our practices based on what we know?

[00:13:15] Julie: Is there something we want to do more often? Is there something we want to do differently? Is there something we want to do less often? Is there something we should get rid of? Because it just isn't what we need right now. And I don't expect answers to each of those. It's more like one of those resonates usually with someone.

[00:13:34] Julie: Like, Oh, you know what we used to do? We used to do this thing. I bet if we did that again or we did that more, I wonder if that would make a difference. Or, you know what, we should stop doing because it's just not worth it. So those kind of conversations, those little stems, get me moving. And you also, you know, You also hit on something that's super important is it used to be long ago.

[00:13:55] Julie: We walked into a data meeting or we led these data meetings. That was just about the red, the yellow, right? And I would say I would be as bold and I may not make friends everywhere by saying it, but I would say,  if that's what your data team meeting is, you're out of date. Yeah, because that's not what, that's not what kids, that's not the only kind of data kids need us to be looking at today. So, as, as sometimes teachers, they first have to undo what they think they used to know. Because they used to know red, yellow, and green, and orange, and purple, and every other color. Every other color. And now I'll say, you know, is the kiddo left-handed or right-handed?

[00:14:39] Julie: Does the kiddo have a group of friends that they lean on for literacy versus the playground? Does the kiddo shine in math, but is timid in other areas? Those kinds of observations matter. And if we can know kids in the round, we have a better chance of supporting them holistically, which is, I actually think, what most teachers got into teaching to do. 

[00:15:05] Olivia: I agree. 

[00:15:05] Julie: And I feel like they're very inspired by that. And so just even naming new data that you might, you might want to like learn about, about kids. Um, you know, are they a homework lover or hater? Do we have a homework process? Is it wrong for kids? Um, you know, do kids have worries?

[00:15:25] Julie: Should we be worried about what they're worried about or should we help calm them? All kinds of really good conversations that sometimes get in the way of kids learning and then, of course, skills and strategies and practices that we can do. That's all part of it as well.

[00:15:41] Olivia: And I think leaving that meeting; what a gorgeous way for coaches to meet with teachers and craft some targets for their upcoming coaching cycles to say: This is the information we have. You know, what are you curious about? What can we study together to address this issue or address what's happening with this child or a group of kids, but also to grow our practice together? Um, so I think that that's really exciting. 

[00:16:10] Julie: I have a, I have a coaching stem that I sometimes, you know, I told you, I have this, like, you know, these little stems. I try to remind myself, I remind myself and I say it. I try to make my metacognition about coaching real because I want to be able to build capacity because I'm not in every team meeting.

[00:16:25] Julie: Right? And so I have to, I have to name what I'm doing. And so I often sit down at a data team meeting, a PLC meeting, a team meeting, uh, a, a, an afterschool PD, whatever the structure is. And I'll say, as we're sitting here today, let's try to name one or more professional curiosities that we have or concerns.

[00:16:46] Julie: And sometimes we'll make a two-column chart because sometimes the curiosity is also the concern, and sometimes the concern outweighs the curiosity and vice versa. Okay. Those two buckets hit everything. You either, you're either curious about it, or you're concerned about it. And so I use that alliteration obviously, cause it helps me remember it, but it is a nice way to also have entry points.

[00:17:08] Julie: Um, and if I haven't done my, if I walk out of a data team meeting and I don't have teacher's names on my dance card, where we have entry points that we need to go after together, then I think we haven't, that hasn't been, something's not quite right with that data team meeting. Something's not quite right.

[00:17:28] Julie: And I put the onus on me. Like I, if I'm leading it, it probably is something I need to shift or to grasp, um, as a collaborative team.

[00:17:36] Olivia: So I'm leaving this small and mighty conversation or short and mighty conversation with the notion coaches definitely should have a seat at the table, whether it's a school-based data meeting, whether it's a district-based meeting because they can be that bridge between seeing the breadth of the teacher, seeing the breadth of the patterns in the building and building the communication between, um, and making a plan of action. So everyone should have a seat that can make change with children's lives. 

[00:18:11] Julie: Well, I think what, I think what you just said is so beautifully said, and that is nowhere in there did either of us say that a coach has to lead it. It's nice when a coach leads it sometimes. Teachers love when coaches lead data meetings. They are exhausted. So to have someone, have someone facilitate is fine, but you gotta make sure that if you're not able to be there, that the data team can still function. Otherwise, it becomes so dependent on the coach, and we don't want that because that's not capacity building, and so, you know, having different seats and different roles at the table to fit the needs of that small learning community is super, super wise.

[00:18:49] Olivia: Julie, you are amazing. You give me so much every time I get to pick your brain. It's always helpful. So many great strategies. Thank you, friend. And I can't wait for your episode with James to come out, um, featuring your most recent book, I'm so excited. Um, so if you don't have The Limitless Classroom: Mantras to Deepen Learning, you better get it, um, and read it definitely right away, but if not before April, because, uh, Julie and James unpack the mantras, and it's a phenomenal conversation. Julie, thank you always. 

[00:19:30] Julie: You as well. Take care. 

[00:19:35] Olivia: Schoolutions is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guest, Julie Wright. Also a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. Don't forget to reach out to share your coaching and teaching strategies with me. You can leave me a voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast or send an email to schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Make sure to tune in every Monday this school year because you will get great strategies from coaches, teachers, administrators, and families that you can immediately apply to better the lives of the students and children in your care. Join the conversation next Monday. Take care.