Student-Centered Coaching: Building Effective Teacher Partnerships with Karrie Fansler

Join me in conversation with Karrie Fansler, Learning Design Specialist with Evergreen Public Schools, as we explore her innovative eight-phase coaching cycle that transforms traditional instructional coaching. Karrie shares how her team of 36 coaches developed this dynamic framework that puts student learning at the center while honoring teacher dignity and inquiry.

Learn about each phase of the cycle - from capturing initial "sparks" of teacher interest to establishing shared classroom reality, refining focus areas, and setting intentional next steps. Karrie explains how coaches can make this cycle responsive to individual teachers' needs, whether working through a quick 15-minute conversation or engaging in deeper long-term partnerships. 

This episode offers practical strategies for instructional coaches looking to:

➡️Build stronger coaching partnerships grounded in student learning

➡️Make coaching conversations more intentional and impactful

➡️Balance structure and flexibility in coaching cycles

➡️Document and capture learning in ways that work for different teachers

➡️Center teacher agency while maintaining a clear coaching purpose

Whether you're new to instructional coaching or looking to refine your practice, this conversation provides a fresh framework for making coaching more responsive, collaborative, and focused on what matters most - student learning.

Episode Mentions: 

• Responsive Coaching Cycle (graphic)
• Evergreen Public Schools
• That Workshop Book by Sam Bennett & Sam’s Circles of Engagement
• Why Do I Have to Read This? Literacy Strategies to Engage Our Most Reluctant Students by Cris Tovani
• How to use both print and digital notebooks to organize your coaching practice by Matt Renwick
• Reggio Emilia Documentation Panels 

Get in touch with Karrie @kafansler@gmail.com

#InstructionalCoaching #ResponsiveCoachingCycle #CoachingCycle #EDUCoach #TeacherCoaching #TeacherPD #StudentLearning #TeacherLeadership #SchoolLeadership #EDULeadership #TeacherDignity #TeacherAgency #CoachingInEducation #TeachingAndLearning #K12Education #EDUChat #CoachingConversations #TeacherSupport #InstructionalLeadership #CoachingPractice #CoachingFramework #StudentCentered #CoachingPartnership #RealityBasedCoaching #ResponsiveCoaching #TeacherInquiry #CoachingDocumentation #ClassroomReality #TeacherReflection #CoachingSparkMoments

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Olivia: Hi there. I'm so happy you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Karrie Fansler. In this episode, Karrie describes the innovative eight phase coaching cycle she co created with a team of 36 coaches she serves and learns alongside. This cycle transforms traditional coaching cycles into dynamic partnerships that focus on maximizing student learning.

[00:00:27] Olivia: You'll learn a practical step by step framework for coaching and discover how to make coaching more responsive to individual teachers. Stay with us. I am so excited to have you join our conversation. Let's go. 

[00:00:42] Olivia: This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies. The podcast that extends education beyond the classroom, a show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive.

[00:01:00] Olivia: I am Olivia Wahl and I'm so happy to welcome my guest today, Karrie Fansler. Uh, Karrie is the Learning Design Specialist in Curriculum and Instruction. Her role specifically is a generalist and she supports coaches. Karrie and I laugh because our role is often deemed as a coach's coach. Um, she is with Evergreen Public Schools in Vancouver, Washington, and the school district serves approximately 22,000 students across its 36 buildings.

[00:01:30] Olivia: Karrie, welcome. I am so happy to have you as a guest. 

[00:01:34] Karrie: Thank you so much, Olivia. It's so fun to finally get to meet you. I've heard so many wonderful things and listening to the podcast. I'm such a fan, been such a fan for so long, but it's really fun to finally, uh, be able to have this conversation in person.

[00:01:47] Olivia: Yes. Uh, so I'm going to start by asking, um, for a researcher or some research that will tie into the topic we're talking about. Well, the reason I reached out to you is, um, you have crafted a spectacular eight phase coaching cycle with your colleagues. You've facilitated the work and I am so excited for, um, listeners to learn from you today.

[00:02:11] Olivia: What research have you been lingering with or has had your back lately? 

[00:02:16] Karrie: Yeah. Thanks, Olivia. And, our, uh, you know, just a shout out to our coaching community. Um, this really was thought about and, uh, dreamt about from our design team. as a comprehensive way to kind of be able to speak to our collective work, um, across our 36 schools, across all grade levels and really be able to speak to our practice.

[00:02:38] Karrie: So, it really is because of our work together that this is out and, um, in practice. Um, and as we continue to work on our practice, you know, it's funny because as I was thinking about this question, you know, we spend our days as, uh, as instructional coaches with the students. Without our own classrooms, right?

[00:02:57] Karrie: We don't have our own students to call our own, but, um, we get to get to think with all of these teachers and all of these, uh, all of these students across our classrooms, and for me, everything comes back to kids and everything comes back to the classroom. So, my go to research is exactly about that. It's about students being engaged for the maximum number of minutes possible within the workshop.

[00:03:20] Karrie: Um, and my, my, uh, friend, um, and, uh, mentor, Samantha Bennett and Cris Tovani really are the gurus of being able to talk about what drives that work, right? Workshop being the number a minute where two thirds of the minutes go to kids to be able to do the reading, writing, thinking, and problem solving. And ultimately that they are engaged learners and that we get to do lots of different considerations, especially as we think about emotional engagement, where kids being connected to their teacher, to the content, to each other, and to themselves.

[00:03:54] Karrie: That really produced student agency and ownership. So, um, I think her, Cris's book, uh, Why Do I Have to Read This is just brilliant and really captures the two of those things that we as coaches need to have in mind, because the real possibility and inquiry when it comes to partnering with teachers is that there's no one way.

[00:04:15] Karrie: There's no one thing to get every kid, right? We have to think about who they are, about what they need next to grow. And how we design in a way that's going to really meet those needs and maximize their engagement and ownership. 

[00:04:30] Olivia: Okay, so good. It's so good. The best. It's it is the best, but then as you're speaking, it's also resonating with me of our coaching work, because it's the exact same darn thing with teachers that we're coaching, there's not one perfect way.

[00:04:47] Olivia: Every teacher is different. Um, I I'm prepping for coaching cycles coming this week. I get to work with amazing high school teachers. I'm so excited. And you know, every single one of them are totally different human beings. And it's across different content areas, which I find enthralling. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, it's that bigger conversation we always have to have of how are we grounding our planning, our conversations based on student work, based on evidence of learning and making sure our planning is so tight with long term vision so then our coaching cycles can evolve and be more fluid, right?

[00:05:28] Olivia: And so jumping into the EPS coaching cycle, I have the graphic, um, which I think you may even be so kind and willing to share with listeners. I'm so it's gorgeous. It's colorful. It's a one pager. And I think it will be so helpful to listen to this conversation and, um, folks can have it printed out in front of them and take notes.

[00:05:49] Olivia: That's what I've done with it as well. Um, so can you first take us through, you know, what is this EPS, um, coaching cycle? Um, and then we'll break it down and zoom in on certain parts that I find really hard as a coach. So I'm hoping you can help me with that. 

[00:06:03] Karrie: Absolutely. And I just had the privilege of doing some coaching labs on Friday with our secondary coaches.

[00:06:09] Karrie: So, uh, it's nice cause we just dove into the first part of the cycle, the first half, right? Together as a community. So we have some fresh thinking even from, um, from Friday to today. So the first thing is, right, just the holistic nature of the coaching cycle is responsive, right? Um, so the thing is that, uh, as coaches, right, we are not here to fix anyone.

[00:06:32] Karrie: We're not here to impose, right, but really helping people as thinking partners and partnerships. Uh, my friend Sam calls it like a chiropractic adjustment, right? To align the head, heart, and gut, right? So that then as a holistic framework, we are protecting, um, dignity of children, dignity of the teacher, centering an inquiry together to be able to think about what it is that we want to maximize in student life.

[00:06:59] Karrie: Now the problem is, right, sometimes as coaches is that the things that teachers come to us sometimes with can be very big or very small, right? Right? And so being able to think about how we do this work intentionally and not just haphazardly, right, like sometimes going to problem solving too soon, right, and in consulting phase rather than in coaching or in consulting stance rather than in coaching stance.

[00:07:24] Karrie: So the, the, the considerations within the phases of the coaching cycle are really about intentionality and listening carefully to ensure that we are holding that partnership and the teacher's intentions and the students at the center of all of our work, which is why it's in the middle of the coaching cycle.

[00:07:43] Karrie: It's beautiful. 

[00:07:44] Olivia: It's beautiful. And wait, let's just, can you read the quote in the middle of the coaching cycle? Absolutely. So our, our full 

[00:07:50] Karrie: goal, right, is to hold partnership and inquiry to maximize student learning. Yeah. 

[00:07:56] Olivia: It's beautiful. 

[00:07:56] Karrie: Our way of feeding your coaches, right? Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. Yes. So, so to kind of start off, right, we start with a spark, right?

[00:08:04] Karrie: And everything starts with a spark. Um, sparks can be whether somebody's coming back from a day of learning, whether it's Uh, in house PD that, you know, whole group that you did, whether it's a small group structure like a learning lab or a conference that they went to outside, right? It could be a PLC meeting.

[00:08:23] Karrie: There's lots and lots of structures that we have for adult learning. It could also just be an individual teacher coming to a coach. And it could come out, right, as like, I'm really excited to learn about this thing. Or a spark can sometimes come out as frustration. I'm really frustrated about this. Got it.

[00:08:41] Karrie: Okay. Yeah. And so tuning ourselves into hearing both of those, right, whether it's a, Oh my gosh, I can't wait to work on this, or I am so overwhelmed and I have to fix this part, right? In this, my third period class, for instance, right? Both are equally sparks, right? So we hold those, we're kind of aware of those when we hear them, they're like, Oh, that might be a thing.

[00:09:05] Karrie: And a spark can happen two weeks ago. Or it could happen in a hallway conversation as we leave from school today, right? So we'll have to document as coaches, though, as these are coming up. Exactly. So how do we hold those sparks? Right? Is one of the questions. Yes. And which sparks do you know are going to kind of be let go, right?

[00:09:26] Karrie: Like, okay, so we're going to give it a minute. Right? Versus like, okay, we need to prioritize this and respond right away. Right? Okay. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Um, so that's kind of where we start and really that's how do we identify the possible sources that spark inquiries. So thinking and holding those whole group could be an exit ticket from PD this afternoon.

[00:09:45] Karrie: I like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's a spark, right? So how do we hold those whole group, then small group, PLCs, learning labs, other learning structures and then individual sparks where somebody texts maybe and says, I've really been thinking about this, right? Those are my favorite texts as a coach. Me too.

[00:10:02] Karrie: Right? Yeah. Yeah. We have those, that's, that's just a like, that's once again, holding dignity and inquiry. That's the teacher telling us, Oh, right, like this is something I'm, something I care about. 

[00:10:15] Olivia: Right. Exactly. 

[00:10:17] Karrie: Yes. Yes. We know what people say and we know what they do. Right. So, you know, think about characters and stories, right?

[00:10:24] Karrie: We know characters by what they say and what they do. And the same thing as we are listening intentively to people, we, uh, we can hold those for them. Yes. I love it. So, after SPARK, then, we can come back, it could be tomorrow, it could be two weeks and say, Hey, I was thinking about that thing that you mentioned, right?

[00:10:43] Karrie: To get to a question, and the question is where the teacher and coach dig into the SPARK a little bit deeper, and to hopefully form an inquiry question. It goes from either a frustration or excitement. into this inquiry question about student learning, right? About our practice in regard to student learning.

[00:11:04] Karrie: Uh, this could be five minutes later, right? Uh, this could be a five minute conversation, or it could be a longer conversation. So, the thing about the coaching cycle is these steps aren't a finite amount of time, right? But they are scalable depending upon the time that we have with teachers. So, as we think about our practice, one of the responsive ways that we can be, be with teachers is, you know what, if we don't have any time, nobody has any time these days, right?

[00:11:32] Karrie: Right. What could be a quick five minute conversation? We don't have to take somebody's whole planning period or something like that. It could be over text messages even, right? Or a series of emails. Um, so, uh, as I mentioned, this could be right away or this might be something we come back to, right? If there's, if there's been a big learning event.

[00:11:52] Karrie: And the biggest misconception that I want to mention, Olivia, is that, um, question, right, isn't about questioning. Oh, say more. Question is about listening. Intentively paraphrasing to help co facilitate the thinking of the teacher so that we can form a question together. Can you give an example? Yeah, for example, so, um, I, we were recently working with a teacher and the teacher said, Okay, I really want to work on small groups.

[00:12:25] Karrie: Um, this teacher is actually part, our secondary, our coaches are part teaching, part coaching. So this is a coach that was actually in the, the teacher space. Right. And she was like, really want to work on, um, on small groups. And I said, okay, great. What about small groups? And she said, well, I really want to make sure that I am meeting kids needs.

[00:12:44] Karrie: Right. I said, okay. So as you think about kids needs that you want to meet, right, like which, who are you thinking about? Who's on your head and heart? Right. And then she is able to then articulate, actually, it's not about small roots in terms of the content behaviors as she was thinking about in her unit, but really about the overall learning behaviors, right, in terms of stamina and engagement that she really wanted to dive into.

[00:13:11] Karrie: So she was really thinking down this ELA lens that that really. Um, went more of the direction of like, Oh, I just want to continue to encourage them to dig in deeper together too. Had I just gone with the first question, right? The first thing that popped into her head about, I need to think about some strategy and some routine around reading groups.

[00:13:40] Karrie: That wasn't really what she was, what was underneath that spark for her, right, that we were able to quickly think about was actually this broader consideration about still getting to know her learners a little bit and helping them believe in themselves a little bit more too. Beautiful. And she was going on kind of an individual conference situation.

[00:14:00] Karrie: She was dying with each of her kids to like, well, why don't I grab them together and see? And then she immediately texted that night. She was like, worked like a dream. We're good. Fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous. Great. Well, that's the going from spark into question is really that like listening attentively to the, to what the teacher intends and kind of what's under it.

[00:14:20] Olivia: Perfect. Yeah. 

[00:14:21] Karrie: Yeah. That makes sense. So, um, this kind of gets us to like this wordy question to dive into. And then as we think about that, and that's kind of solidified, so I'm holding that I'm holding their spark and I'm holding where the, the question that they've identified Now it's time to actually see it together.

[00:14:39] Karrie: So the next phase is about reality, right? And so this is really about how we start to build partnership in context to share the same picture. Yes. Olivia, we can talk about the classroom all day long, right? Unless we're in it. Unless we're in it together, right? I am not seeing things with your eyes. Right.

[00:14:59] Karrie: Wait. And so the reality is about being in classroom together, to be able to see kids, kid watch together, think about their strengths, their, their, um, their goals, their needs, and their terms of their next steps to grow so that we can think about where we go next, right? Is this question still the question, right?

[00:15:24] Karrie: This is a big, a big wondering, right, that a coach has, right? As we walk into the classroom. That teacher could be thinking about small groups, right, and uncovering in the reality together to be able to sit in that is really the necessity. 

[00:15:39] Olivia: Yes, yeah. 

[00:15:41] Karrie: You know, I say that we have the privilege to sit at the feet of teachers as instructional coaches, right?

[00:15:47] Karrie: And we get to gain that perspective across many classrooms. And for some of us across an entire system, right, I have the privilege of being in kindergarten classrooms in the morning with coaches and then in AP physics in the afternoon, right? Like, so we get to see this whole span of learner. And while it might be that I work in a 6 8 school, right, I get to see the 6 8 experience for these readers and writers, right?

[00:16:14] Karrie: So it's really important, um, for, for us to sit in reality because if a teacher shares a spark, right, we start to form a question. We want to ensure that our inquiry sits in the reality of the classroom, right? That it's not ethereal. Um, and that's where we collect information for the teacher, right, to help us finalize and think about our, our question and our steps.

[00:16:40] Olivia: Karrie, let me ask you then, it feels like step one, spark, step two, the idea of the question really happened as a pre or a primer, a primer, before you jump into a classroom. To visit and be in reality with the teacher. And so if I'm trying to map this over time as a coach, I'm thinking to myself, like I would definitely have to have a planning meeting of where maybe the spark came over text, but I want to circle back with that teacher and just touch base and do that thought partnership, even if it's 15 minutes and talk through, right?

[00:17:13] Olivia: What is the spark? Let's talk it through. Like, can I be a thought partner where I'm going underneath the layers? We get the inquiry question and then we plan for a time that we'll visit and be in the classroom space together to calibrate our reality. Does that, is that in line? 

[00:17:29] Karrie: Absolutely. And that can happen very quickly.

[00:17:32] Karrie: It could happen over the, over a week, right? So it could be that a teacher I talked to before school and they're like, Oh my gosh, I don't know my readers workshop. This is unlike any year I've ever had. Right. And I could sit before school and like, okay, well, what are you wondering about? Right. We have a quick little conversation where we're moving from that spark into question and I'll say, do you want me to come this afternoon?

[00:17:56] Karrie: Beautiful. Okay. Immediately right into class. Right. So these phases can happen really rapidly in response to the partnership, in response to trust with the teacher, in response to previous work that's been done, or if the Alarmed in any way, right? Like I want to be able to match that as their coach to be able to be responsive to their needs and the needs of kids.

[00:18:22] Olivia: And so when you jump into the classroom space then to cal I'm going to go with calibrate reality, because that's what I feel like, you know, I think in some school districts, the idea of coaching is coach comes in, sits, takes notes, watches a teacher teach, and then offers some feedback. I, I find that valuable to a degree.

[00:18:40] Olivia: I also really love the idea of positioning ourselves as thought partners. And so if the question is grounded in something around student engagement. Why wouldn't we both be kid watching together and even in a Google Doc, like, this is what I'm seeing and hearing over here. How about you? So we're not even talking necessarily to interrupt the flow.

[00:19:01] Olivia: Maybe the teacher will give some whole class instruction and then we'll break out. Or maybe we'll just jump in and have the kids moving throughout the room, working together, right, in that two thirds time zone. I just, I want to go back to that idea of responsiveness because that's what's critical. There is not one way to coach and I appreciate that so much with this model.

[00:19:24] Olivia: So we're, take us now, we're in the classroom, we're trying to establish reality. What does that look and feel like? So, as we're 

[00:19:31] Karrie: in reality, exactly, kind of getting the vibe of the classroom, right? So, like, what are kids doing when the teacher's with them? What is that, what are the kids doing after the teacher leaves that group and maybe goes to another group, right?

[00:19:43] Karrie: We get to be the extra set of eyes and ears, right, for them. If the teacher, I have, I had a teacher that said, you know, I really want to figure out conferring, right? I just, don't we all, don't we all, exactly, it's always conferring, right? Um, and, and I was like, okay, so, you know, I just don't know, like my conferences, I'm really meeting all of their needs, blue buttons.

[00:20:04] Karrie: Okay. And so I went in, sat on the floor and just scripted every conversation that she was having with kids. Right. That's all, that's what she asked for, right? That is the reality, right? So then, right, we'll come back to plan together with the teacher, but we're not there yet, right? So once we get that vibe, once I gather whatever the teacher for them as their eyes and ears, whatever they're thinking about, what we're thinking about together, right?

[00:20:33] Karrie: They have that full transparency, right? Yes. No judgment, really. Rooted in inquiry, right? There's no one way, there's no perfect teacher, there's no perfect one, right? There's no perfect coaching cycle. Then the, um, there's two steps in the EPS coaching cycle that are green, um, and they're marked as green because that's where the coach just does some work by themselves.

[00:20:57] Karrie: Right. Okay. Outside of the partnership, so much like a class tonight, uh, planning for a classroom right? There is so much that we can possibly dig into together with students and what. If we just came out and, and said, okay, kids, what do you think today? Math, right? Um, it would be completely overwhelming, right?

[00:21:19] Karrie: It's too big. So, much in the same vein, right? As coaches not coming in with some thoughtful intention, knowing what, where people are, what they have valued, what they've told us, what kids have done. Right. To make some intentional time to refine that question is, is, it's on us, right? That's on us for planners as coaches, as coaches.

[00:21:45] Karrie: So refine is really how we consolidate the spark and the question and reality and refine that question for our trialing. So for instance, the teacher that was saying, I really want to work on conferring, right? Go in, write down all of her conferences. She's a masterful confer, right? Just beautiful.

[00:22:09] Karrie: Honoring kids, listening, paraphrasing, getting some next steps, kids weave with, you know, with their next step on a sticky note and everything else. Right. And I, and I sit there and thinking about, okay, so how do we want to, what work, right, do we want to do? Does this teacher want to do about conferring?

[00:22:29] Karrie: First of all, I need to understand because what I saw. When I was in class in reality, was this beautiful conference structure that she had. I want, I don't understand. That's my first, my first thinking. I don't see what you're seeing. Okay. And if I can't see what you're seeing, then our coaching cycle is going to be around consultation, right?

[00:22:53] Karrie: And I'm not going to, you're not going to be getting what you are thinking you're going to get in our, in our partnership together. Yeah. So I want to ensure that first, right? Um, we also get to think about, um, where we plan in a refine, right? This is about creating a coaching conversation, right? Yes. And so just like the workshop model where two thirds of the minutes go to kids, right?

[00:23:20] Karrie: Really refining an intention, right? Is where we get to, you know, the workshop model keeps us honest too, in terms of two thirds of the conversation being the teacher. Yes. Yes. Yeah, so in the same way and you draw a circle right and plan out the coaching conversation where I really want to think about Okay, so what did they say right?

[00:23:41] Karrie: Where do I really need to listen in carefully, right? In order to make sure that I'm holding their question and their spark as well as what we saw from kids together. What do we want to look at together in that time, right? What's going to be, what's going to be fueling our conversation and our inquiry so that we can think about what we want to do for kids.

[00:24:02] Karrie: What do we want to, what do we want to see kids do? What do we want to hear kids say as a result of our work? So sitting within Refine. Kind of going back and be like, okay, I think our question is like on the right track, right? Really planning out that coaching conversation. What do we want to look at? Do we want to pull in some student work?

[00:24:22] Karrie: Do we want to look at the data that I collected during reality in the classroom together? Do we need to look at something else? Do we need to go and talk to some kids and get their perspective? More. Yeah. Thinking about empathy interviews, right? And their, and, and their experience in school as well. Right.

[00:24:40] Karrie: So I might do some of that, right? As I think about refine, if I'm like, Hmm, I wonder if kids feel heard in a conference, right? Like that might be interesting for us to be able to come back to and think about. Maybe I'll go ask a couple of kids so that we have that for our planning session too. So. Risk Step is really about being prepared for the conversation that then we have with the teacher so we can maximize their minutes and not overtake their agency and ownership and try to kind of fix it quickly.

[00:25:10] Olivia: So I also want to point out, as you said, teachers do not have enough time in the day to reflect on their practice. It feels. When I'm in school, it feels like the day starts and then it's done and it's just gone in a really lovely way because it's often amazing work happening and it's like, I have no idea where those minutes went.

[00:25:29] Olivia: So, if you have, if a teacher has a 40 minute prep period, what I hear you saying is, You're not taking every minute of that 40 minutes, it's planning for perhaps knowing that person, maybe they want to chat for 15 minutes, and so you're going to take that 15 minute chunk and you're going to say, what 10 minutes am I going to give them to look at student work, to read, write, think, talk, and then what five minutes am I going to sprinkle in to facilitate that conversation as their coach and help us get to a point Bye.

[00:26:00] Olivia: Um, the next coaching cycle or the next week, is that on point with what you're thinking? 

[00:26:05] Karrie: Okay. Yes. One hundred percent. Um, and, and really the heart of this, right, is to not come in, right, like we think about a conversation that we just happen into, right? I might ask questions that wouldn't, that might be dignity violations to the teacher too, right?

[00:26:25] Karrie: That I might, because I just haven't thought about it. Right? This refined stage could be a five minutes, right? Like it's just having the intention of thinking about like who is in front of me, right? What are we thinking about together? And how can we maximize our conversation and be able to meet the teacher's needs, kids’ needs, and fuel our partnership forward?

[00:26:49] Olivia: Yeah, absolutely. And so do you send the refine after you've taken a moment to What, what is your next step? Then we get to plan with the teacher. 

[00:26:56] Olivia: Ah, okay. 

[00:26:57] Karrie: So that might be the time where I send a coaching note. I send, might be the Google doc with just the raw data, right? Like, Hey, here's what I collected today.

[00:27:06] Karrie: Can't wait to talk after school. Right. Um, and then I'll have, right, like our plan, this might be where I generate some, you know, other questions or like, Hey, was thinking about these three, right, like maybe I'm not meeting with them for a couple of days, right? So, these three things were rolling in my head as I was thinking about our initial question, you know, which one resonates with you, right?

[00:27:27] Karrie: If I need to get some more information from the teacher, right? The perfect 

[00:27:31] Olivia: time. Yeah. 

[00:27:32] Karrie: Then this is the perfect time before then we plan together. 

[00:27:36] Olivia: Awesome. All right. So, we're at step five, that planning time, and it's designated in however much the teacher needs to move forward. And then what is trial? 

[00:27:48] Karrie: So, in plan, we really want to also think about, like, what How we're, like, what our question is, what we're going to try with kids, and then how we're going to be together in the classroom.

[00:27:59] Olivia: I love it. Right? 

[00:28:00] Karrie: Yeah. So then in trial, then, it's enacting that plan. Right? So this is where we're really holding. So this is the, uh, a very important part of this question is how do we both hold the inquiry, right? As we enact in the classroom. That's so good. As much as the teacher gets holding the inquiry.

[00:28:17] Karrie: So good. Yeah. We have to own it just as much, right? Yeah. It's, it's what makes us very different from evaluators, right? We are in it together, right, every step of the way. And so, what does that look like in the classroom? Are we co, are we, are we co kid watching, right, or both kind of holding that inquiry, that monitoring for that, the student learning behaviors?

[00:28:40] Karrie: Are we co, um, maybe doing a little bit of co teaching, right, and some tandem teaching together? Are, um, are there maybe some kids that are specifically, we're like, okay, these are the kids that we really want to center in our work. And I'm just going to be kid watching those four students, right, in our work together.

[00:29:00] Karrie: So really that trialing is what we can often overlook, right, in our coaching cycle, right, where it's just like, okay, I'll be back into class rather than being back into class together with intention to fold that inquiry together. 

[00:29:16] Olivia: Well, and that's where the circle can come right back into play, right? So as coaches, we're planning our conversations.

[00:29:21] Olivia: So it's honoring the teacher's time, but then we have to plan the trial in the same way, um, or the class experience, whatever it is going to be where, you know, here's where I'm like, it's actually labeled here's where Karrie or Livvy are going to do this. And here's where the classroom teacher is going to do this.

[00:29:38] Olivia: So I think being that explicit, it helps us have the classroom time flow and we get the most out of it. 

[00:29:46] Karrie: Yeah, rather than it feeling maybe that it's, um, for you, right? Like that, that, right? Like it's, that it's for somebody else, right? But that's really about us trying to figure this out for kids. Because like we said, there's no one way, right?

[00:30:02] Karrie: So, it's really just about our intentionality together. Yeah. 

[00:30:05] Olivia: Beautiful, beautiful. So then capture and intention are the last two. So talk to us about capture. So capture, 

[00:30:13] Karrie: you'll notice, is also green, right, which means this is the coach's responsibility, right? So this is really about documentation. So when we are in the classroom trialing together, how do I document our learning that's going to continue to fuel our continued practice, right?

[00:30:30] Karrie: So I'd like to say this can be words, pictures, right, lines, any ways that we can really capture, right, what we, what we tried, right? How that went, right? And how kids responded. 

[00:30:44] Olivia: Yes. Yeah.  

[00:30:45] Karrie: And then possibly fuel for what we need to do next, right? So that capturing is really an important component, whether that happens in a coaching note, in a letter, in, um, pictures, maybe videos with kids, right?

[00:30:58] Karrie: Like we are privileged enough to be there. Um, as an extra set of eyes and ears. So how does, how, how is that privilege going to result in teachers seeing something they normally wouldn't be able to do by themselves? 

[00:31:16] Olivia: Yes. Yes. Right. And, and I think the idea of transfer into their practice. So I, it's so funny.

[00:31:22] Olivia: I was just, um, I had the privilege of interviewing Matt Renwick. Um, and we were talking about print versus digital notebooks to capture. Um, and you know, I was saying that I love OneNote and I've used it for years since I began coaching. Uh, gosh, early two thousands and years, I don't know if it's been a while, but I appreciate that you can draw and OneNote, you can put a voice recording, you can type whatever it is and then capture.

[00:31:49] Olivia: I also know teachers that, that they look at it and they just close, that's way too much. And so it's going back again to being responsive. Just because a note-taking system works for us as coaches does not mean it actually works for teachers. So I think it's critical during that capture phase, we ask every single adult we're working with, what is going to impact you?

[00:32:14] Olivia: And I can capture in a way that you will actually want to transfer this. Into your practice, 

[00:32:19] Karrie: right? 

[00:32:20] Olivia: Mm hmm. 

[00:32:21] Karrie: Well, and I, you know, uh, noticing working at K 12, right? So my elementary friends, right? Um, we oftentimes don't take computers into the classroom, right? It's paper, paper and pencil, right? And, and those spaces, because everything just feels a little bit more intimate.

[00:32:38] Karrie: Um, I have another coach that, uh, really has done brilliant work around, uh, regimen area documentation boards. Right? And so she documents not only the teacher's learning, right? But also helps partner with the teacher to help document the kid's learning through their inquiry question. So how we can share that learning and inquiry with children as we're thinking about our own practice for them, right?

[00:33:07] Karrie: How do we help capture that as well with the teacher is a really fun, a really fun layer to add on to. Those are great ideas. All right. So. Take us to intention. So this is where we solidify, right? So we've, we've gone through this learning together, right? How do we solidify our future intentions, right?

[00:33:28] Karrie: Based upon our inquiry, right? So what did we learn? What did kids do and say? And then how do we ensure that we continue and transfer that into our practice? As we move forward, right? So what, what supports do we need? What ongoing coaching supports do we need? Whether it's, you know, just that, you know, do we need to have a check in, right?

[00:33:49] Karrie: Kind of a thing, or do we have more deep work to do and round and round the coaching cycle we could go, right? Where it's really about transfer 

[00:33:58] Olivia: and, and that's a separate meeting after the trial. Yes. Yeah. And so what, then if I'm looking at the eight phases, it feels like there's the planning, uh, based on spark or a conversation.

[00:34:10] Olivia: And then, um, you move into reality. So there's a classroom visit, there's time in classroom. They're refined, which is that moment the coach owns. Moving into then another plan based on that reality calibration, um, zipping to then another classroom experience that's now really thought through, um, and then captures happening during that second visit, and then intention is set in another planning session.

[00:34:38] Olivia: What I appreciate with this is, I heard you even say, there may be days in between each of these, and so the idea of the fluidity and the flow of this cycle, I, Karrie, I can't tell you, I am so stinking excited to give this a go with teachers this week and then circle back with you, um, Because I just, I feel like it's fresh and that's what I appreciate about it.

[00:35:03] Olivia: Um, and I also know, you know, we have to wrap our conversation. I also know though, in that reality moving to refine, the reality sometimes is. a hard conversation. So it may be, yes, you, someone wanted to look at conferring and they're knocking it out of the park. Um, but it may also be that there are some emotional, um, challenges going on in the classroom or just engagement overall.

[00:35:29] Olivia: And so I think that idea of refine is to sit without judgment, And also to help every single teacher's practice grow in service of children. So that refined can be a hard conversation of calibrating reality. And then it's circling back to, there is no judgment. Let's try this together. And I also appreciate the messiness of this, the goodness, the good messiness.

[00:35:56] Olivia: Um, That coaching isn't about that perfect moment, that perfect cycle. It's about, you know, getting smarter together for kids. So, 

[00:36:06] Karrie: and hopefully that vulnerability is prompted for right from the very start with the spark, right? Yeah, we're not, that's the whole point is we're not coming in with the spark and saying, Oh, you need to do this, right?

[00:36:18] Karrie: But from the very beginning, the teacher really is the one who is owning that, sharing that. And so there's some vulnerability in the fact that they will even start to say, Oh my gosh, this is really bothering me, or this is really going well. And I want to build on it together. 

[00:36:34] Olivia: Oh, I love it. So let's end our conversation.

[00:36:38] Olivia: Who is an educator that is inspiring you or has inspired you as of late? 

[00:36:44] Karrie: Well, uh, so I have to go back to, um, our time here in Evergreen. We were really, um, unbelievably lucky to spend, uh, a good, a good amount of time with Cris Tovani. 

[00:36:55] Olivia: Yeah. 

[00:36:56] Karrie: Um, here and, um, do a lot of learning labs and time together in classrooms.

[00:37:02] Karrie: So, she continues to be an inspiration, not just for me, but, uh, people here in Evergreen, right? Where they'll say, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that we got to sit at the feet. Yeah. Yeah. Right, uh, Cris Tovani, and that then that then ripples through all of our practice, right? Where we're like, Oh yeah, I remember that thing that as a spark in and of itself, right?

[00:37:23] Karrie: Yeah. Can years later, right? This was pre pandemic, right? Years later still inspire us to be able to do big things for kids. So, uh, just a shout out to Cris and, um, Sam and all of their hard work, um, that continues to reverberate here in Evergreen as well, for me personally and for a lot of educators. 

[00:37:42] Olivia: Yeah.

[00:37:43] Olivia: Well, and your, this work now is having a ripple effect across the world. Um, because the work is being shared and that's what this is about. So Karrie, thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation. Thank you, Olivia. It's been so fun. Yes, it has. Take care, friend. All right. Bye. 

[00:38:02] Olivia: Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Karrie Fansler, for sharing how her school district's innovative eight phase coaching cycle transforms traditional coaching cycles into dynamic partnerships that focus on maximizing student learning.

[00:38:34] Olivia: Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at scholutionspodcast@gmail.com. Let me know how you and your community nurture partnerships that focus on maximizing student learning. How do your coaching cycles flow? How are you responsive to your students and colleagues needs? Tune in every Monday for best research backed coaching and teaching strategies that you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care.

[00:39:03] Olivia: Stay tuned now for my bonus episode every Friday, where I'll share how I applied what I learned from the guests in schools that week. See you then.