[00:00:00] Olivia: Hi there. I'm so happy you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Kayln Belsha, a senior national reporter for Chalkbeat. In this episode, Kayln and I discuss potential impacts of Trump's campaign promise to dismantle the Department of Education, particularly focusing on services for students with disabilities.
[00:00:22] Olivia: You'll learn why, while IDEA, the law protecting students with disabilities, would remain intact if the Department of Education is disbanded, major shifts could occur in how civil rights complaints are handled. You'll learn how current staffing challenges for special education teachers and paraprofessionals would be further impacted.
[00:00:44] Olivia: And why the potential shift to block grants would give states more control over education funding distribution. Stay with us. I'm so excited to have you join our conversation. This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive.
[00:01:16] Olivia: I am Olivia Wahl and I am so happy to be in conversation with Kalyn Belsha today. Kalyn is a senior national reporter for Chalkbeat based in Chicago. Previously, um, Kalyn, I know you covered education for the Chicago Reporter, Catalyst Chicago, and the, the Suburban Chicago Tribune. Um, you are a former Spencer fellow in education at Columbia University and have, have taught journalism at Loyola University, Chicago. I reached out to you because I saw an article you published this in November 2024, um, and that's what we're going to focus our conversation today around. The article's entitled Trump plan to ax the education department might affect kids with disabilities a lot or a little. Uh, And this title caught my eye right away. And I'm grateful for your time. So welcome, Kalyn. Thank you.
[00:02:11] Kalyn: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.
[00:02:13] Olivia: I asked guests for a researcher or a piece of research that you've been leaning on often with your work. Can you share with listeners?
[00:02:23] Kalyn: Sure. Um, the person I want to recommend is Constance Lindsay. She's done some really great work around looking at teacher shortages, um, looking at discipline specifically for kids with disabilities. Um, and I just, I go to her often. She's really great. She's at the University of North Carolina.
[00:02:39] Olivia: Brilliant. Thank you. Um, so I wanted to start off by kind of framing our conversation with a quote from your article, if that's okay for, with you. All right, here we go. So I have it printed out in front of me, uh, “Trump vowed on the campaign trail that he would dismantle the federal education department and hand more control over education to the states. The federal law that guarantees students with disabilities a right to a free and appropriate public education dates back to 1975 before the education department existed as a standalone entity.”
[00:03:12] Olivia: And this is what I think a lot of us are grappling with right now in the world of education. That law would remain on the books, even if the department were disbanded, but it's less clear how funding would change or who would be responsible for protecting students' rights. So let's jump in. And as I'm reading, I'm highlighting like, it's, I think you'll laugh at me, but I took all of these notes because you know, it's, it's a shorter piece, but I have so many questions and I have the privilege of being in schools and serving students with disabilities, serving teachers, coaches, admin, and there is great concern about what is going to happen. I think it would be really helpful for you to offer context around how does the U. S. Department of Education currently serve, um, I would say support students with disabilities, but students in general?
[00:04:12] Kalyn: Yeah, the department's kind of main jobs fall into a couple different buckets. Okay. Um, the first is that they put forward the budget request to Congress. And so they're the ones kind of asking for more or less funding for certain areas, like students with disabilities. Um, and I will note that, you know, one of the big complaints that people have had is that the, um, IDEA, which is the law, um, on the books right now for helping students with disabilities, has been underfunded for a really long time. Back when that was first passed, there was talk about, um, the federal government contributing a lot more money. And so, sometimes the Department of Education does ask for more and Congress doesn't give it to them, and so they don't really control that. Um, one of the other big responsibilities is looking into civil rights complaints.
[00:04:56] Kalyn: So, if a family, an advocate, a student, um, files a complaint with a couple different, um, categories, one of them is disability, but also race and ethnicity, and there's lots of other protected categories, um, and they decide to investigate if they think that there's, um, merit to do so. They have the ability to kind of force a remedy and say, you should work with us on it. And so that's another major thing that they do in their office of civil rights. They can also proactively investigate if they think something's going on, if they've read a news article or gotten a tip about it. And they did that during the pandemic for kids with disabilities. They also issue kind of recommendations and suggestions.
[00:05:35] Kalyn: They have the kind of power of the federal government, that mouth piece and so schools can feel kind of pressure to do some of the things, um, during the pandemic, especially around academic recovery, they had particular things that they wanted and they could offer grants for that. So they can kind of incentivize certain actions, but they do not control curriculum and they don't control kind of how and when students learn things.
[00:05:56] Olivia: Got it. Okay. So that kind of sets the tone. That's where we are now. So let's think after the new year, um, with Trump coming in as president, what could potential impacts be of dismantling the U. S. Department of Education on, I would say, the American education system at large. And then if you don't mind going more in depth with for students with disabilities.
[00:06:23] Kalyn: Yeah, so I think the general consensus is that like it would depend a lot on kind of how this plan gets rolled out if they actually do follow through with this campaign promise. Um, but I think the most common way that people think it would happen is that they would divide up the responsibilities of the department and give them to other agencies potentially Health and Human Services and the Department of Justice. Um, so there's been plans or ideas, um, from Project 2025, which was written by several, um, former Trump administration officials and also some incoming officials of giving the responsibility of civil rights, um, to the Department of Justice.
[00:07:00] Kalyn: So in that case, it would be a little bit more of only really major cases. They would have to be kind of filing a lawsuit. And right now, the way that it's handled is, kind of, if there's just a complaint that's filed, um, it's more often looked into by the Department of Education, so there is some kind of fear that if you move it over to the Department of Justice, there'd be fewer investigations. Fewer remedies for kids.
[00:07:23] Olivia: Let me just pause there then. And so I heard you before say currently it would be what's deemed an investigation, but if it goes, if that is the shift it goes to, it would then become a lawsuit, which has a very different tone, right? It has a very different feeling, that idea of investigation versus lawsuit. I just, I want to note that that's fascinating to me.
[00:07:46] Kalyn: Okay. Yeah, and we saw that under the prior Trump administration, um, under Secretary Betsy DeVos, there was kind of a push to do fewer systematic investigations and to do smaller ones that were for individual cases. So I think this kind of follows in some of that same idea of like, we don't want to do these broad sweeping investigations, potentially. We would kind of move this out of that purview. Um, and if the health and human services was controlling kind of the rest of education, I think we don't really know very much about what that would look like. Um, or they could reform a new department and kind of do some kind of hybrid. Um, so that is really unclear.
[00:08:23] Kalyn: Um, I think that the funding is the other thing that's really unclear. Right now it's administered by the Department of Education, but there are formulas that, that we follow for Title I and for, um, IDEA. So those, like we said before, those laws are still in the books. And so it's, um, up to Congress to decide how much money goes into that. But there have been proposals around creating kind of, they're called block grants, so they would be kind of just large sums of money given to states, and then the states would decide how that money would go out. So I think that's where some of the fear is because right now it's funneled more directly to schools in particular ways for kids who live in poverty, for kids who have disabilities, English learners and things like that. So if they tried to make changes to the way that the funding is allocated, I think that would be where you'd see a lot of shakeup.
[00:09:10] Olivia: And it would depend so much on how each state. Is it is governed in a way that, you know, what, what do they value when it comes to public education and not just students with disabilities, but all children of color as well. And so that it's disconcerting and based on your knowledge of who Trump is considering appointing. To these separate departments, you know, what, what's your gut instinct tell you, um, on potential, I don't know, potential consequences.
[00:09:45] Kalyn: Yeah, I think it's really unclear. Um, right now, um, he's named Linda McMahon saying that he wants her to be his pick. Um, we don't know too much about her background in education. She has kind of limited education experience, but we do know that she's kind of lobbied around kind of career and technical education before that she's been a fan of that. Yeah, um. So it's, it's possible that, you know, she could say, no, I do want to control the department and I don't want to completely break up all of its responsibilities.
[00:10:13] Kalyn: Um, but we'll see. Um, and I think, you know, for health and human services, it's, um, RFK Jr. has been nominated to that position or named for that position. And it's unclear. I mean, again, he doesn't really have very much education experience either. Right now, um, that department administers, um, Head Start. So it does have some education, um, governance, and, you know, we know he's a vaccine skeptic, but the federal government doesn't really control what vaccine requirements are either. So it's, it's kind of unclear what exactly these picks mean. Um, I think it's going to be really down to Congress and what they decide. And. Um, yeah, we'll have to wait and see.
[00:10:54] Olivia: So then, let's go pre-pandemic or post-pandemic even. What are other challenges with services that have come into play that we need to be aware of?
[00:11:06] Kalyn: Yes. Um, I would say this was a challenge pre-pandemic, but the pandemic made it worse from what we've heard from schools is around staffing. There's kind of a severe shortage of teachers for students with disabilities who have the right training and capabilities to work with kids. Yeah. Um, there's also really high turnover for paraprofessionals who are the much lesser paid, um, folks who often help implement the individualized education plan.
[00:11:31] Kalyn: Um, and during the pandemic, we saw some districts try to raise pay for those positions, but they're competing with higher pay for cashiers and working in restaurants and things like that. And so folks have had a really hard time keeping that role. Um, so when you don't have the right staffing levels, what you end up doing sometimes is increasing class sizes which can make it harder for everyone else in the classroom to learn. Sometimes kids act out when they're not getting the right services and support, and that can interrupt learning for other kids. Um, and it also means that kids are not learning and growing in the way that they should be when they're not getting the right services. And we've seen a lot of districts turn to uncertified or lesser-trained teachers, and that can also lead to the same issues.
[00:12:11] Olivia: There was something in the article as well around Incentives that bring qualified special educators, paraprofessionals into the field. What would happen with that?
[00:12:24] Kalyn: So right now, a lot of those programs are administered by states or nonprofits and foundations.
[00:12:28] Kalyn: So those would still exist. But right now the federal government does give grants to try to incentivize the special education teacher pipeline. And so it's possible that a future administration could say, like, we don't want to put as much money into that. Um, so I think it's really unclear, um, but certainly the states will still have a responsibility to kind of help with that and universities too can offer, you know, free tuition or free coursework.
[00:12:51] Olivia: I like that solution. And, you know, I was working with coaches the last two days in a three through five building and it was incredible to me, you know, they, the schools themselves, you know, Are working so hard to ensure that students are getting their services, um, as well as that every adult in the classrooms understands their role and making sure all kids are successful. So I, I want to give a shout out because my concern is, you know, this is so top down that it's the children. It's their caregivers, it's the teachers and the administrators getting lost in this conversation. And I was grateful. I'll stop there because I was also really grateful with the experts. You included their voices from the panel.
[00:13:47] Olivia: During the session you attended because they're there, the vast perspectives, um, some more concerned than others. So I was sharing your article with the coaches I was serving this week and it actually quelled some of their fears. Um, and so that was helpful. I'd love for listeners to also hear what were some of those perspectives from the experts on the panel.
[00:14:11] Kalyn: Yeah, I'll kind of start with, um, most concerned to least concerned. That's a good starting point. The folks who were most concerned, um, were kind of advocates in the civil rights realm who say, look, if we give the civil rights responsibilities elsewhere, that just means it's going to get less attention. Kids are going to have their rights violated and there's going to be less of a kind of understanding about how to file complaints and what to do if something happens. Um, I think also that there's a lot of concern from those civil rights advocates for the rights of like LGBTQ students. We've seen huge pushback to the new federal Title IX rules that were put forward by the Biden administration.
[00:14:49] Kalyn: So we've seen a lot of concern for those students from those advocates too. The people kind of in the middle who are saying, you know, there will be some change, but maybe not a huge change, depending on how the plan goes, those folks, I think, are worried about consistency and worried about, you know, the Department of Education does a lot of data gathering. They help monitor what disparities exist for vulnerable kids. And if we interrupt that and give responsibilities elsewhere, it can just get lost and some of that work can be interrupted and it can be harder for everyone to kind of keep an eye on kids that really need support. I think on the least concern end are folks who say, look, the department isn't doing its job and we think that states could do it better, that there is room for improvement.
[00:15:37] Kalyn: And they say, you know, this will kind of free up states to just take the lead and be more innovative and that the federal government's job should be to kind of point out what's working really well in states so that states can kind of take the lead. Um, so I think, yeah, it really depends on kind of who you're asking, but, um, usually it's kind of more progressive folks are the most concerned and then conservative folks are a little bit less concerned.
[00:16:03] Olivia: Yeah. I, you know, I, I try to always look at the glass half full, um, and I will say though that. It's, it is concerning to me because I know even within a school building or a school district, communication is also is often very, very challenging. Um, you know, how are we making sure that there are consistent and clear expectations just at the ground level?
[00:16:28] Olivia: And so, my biggest concern would be that if it's going at the states, how are we ensuring that in all states there are consistent expectations? And if kids don't get lost in the mix. Um, so then I want to just speak to. What are solutions? What are strategies that we could do? Um, but also that I just, I guess I'd love to hear more about, you know, what, what do you think for caregivers?
[00:17:00] Olivia: What could caregivers do like specific audience members? What can teachers do? What can admin do? How can we each advocate in different arenas? to ensure all of our students with disabilities get the services they need.
[00:17:15] Kalyn: I mean, one thing is certainly, um, paying attention to the compromise, confirmation hearing for Linda McMahon and seeing, um, whether or not she gets asked questions about kids with disabilities. Often advocates can kind of, um, pressure their members of Congress to ask specific questions, their senators. And so folks can write to their senators if they're on the education committee and say, I'd really like you to ask about kids with disabilities and how you would handle this. I mean, I think people can kind of think a little bit about right now, you know, states and school districts do have most of the control over how kids are served.
[00:17:50] Kalyn: And so I think that that, you know, that is not going to change. And so being really aware of kind of how the system works at your local level and at your state level and understanding that there might be other ways to file complaints. Some states do have their own kind of civil rights investigation process. So trying to figure out if your state has something in place that might be able to be, um, helpful to you if the federal government isn't really taking complaints anymore. Um, and also being familiar with what advocacy groups exist in your state, um, who provide legal advocacy. Because those are the folks that you can rely on, um, if you're not able to have somebody in an office of civil rights, um, to help you.
[00:18:32] Olivia: Okay. I, you know, I can't say enough about, uh, just also reaching out to other caregivers because I know, um, circling up with other caregivers for myself as a parent, it's extraordinarily helpful to offer perspective because it's going to be critical, I believe, that we are not just hyper focused on the way our own children exist. And survive or thrive in the school systems, it's really important that we engage and ask other caregivers with children that may not look or be just like ours to better understand their journey and to step up to support each other. As caregivers, I think we also need to do a much better job of lifting our teachers up because they are teachers are exhausted.
[00:19:23] Olivia: And I'm at a point of when I hear someone say, Oh, I'm tired of hearing how overwhelmed they are. No, there's a different level of, um, It's not even burnout. I would say that word demoralization that's happening right now, um, where the hours that go into planning for differentiated instruction, it's gobsmacking.
[00:19:45] Olivia: And if you're an elementary teacher. And that's crazy in itself because you are actually planning for multiple subject areas. And you're not planning for one child. You're planning for, when I see that differentiation so that each child can have an access point to learning. And so I just, I think it's important to end this conversation, shining a light on what educators are doing and will continue doing regardless of who's president, right? Um, they, they'll keep showing up and those that take a break or that need to really think about, you know, is this the right career for me? There's no shame in that either, because I, you know, our kids deserve us to be showing up as our best selves. And I, I need, you know, Kailin, I know with your research and your reporting, you see so much love that educators offer to kids on a daily basis. And, um, I think it's important just to, to give a shout out to teachers in general. Right? For sure.
[00:20:51] Kalyn: I mean, I, I definitely hear, um, from parents who say, I see my teacher helping my kid and being so supportive at a time where it's really hard. Especially coming out of the pandemic where a lot of kids were dealing with, um, higher levels of academic struggles, more mental health struggles, um, and yeah, I know teachers are exhausted, um, but there are so many that stayed. We really thought that teacher turnover would spike crazy after the pandemic and it did go up a little bit, but not a lot.
[00:21:21] Kalyn: Um, so I think it's worth saying that, you know, a lot of teachers are sticking it out and are willing to do things that are really hard. Yeah.
[00:21:27] Olivia: Yeah. So, let's end the conversation then. Will you share who an inspiring educator is from your life?
[00:21:36] Kalyn: Sure. My fourth-grade teacher, um, his name was Mr. Werner. He was one of my favorite teachers ever. We had like a marble jar that, you know, whenever we did things. Good deeds in the class or things like that. Um, we would get one marble and when it overfilled, we got to play kickball outside. And, uh, I hated kickball. I did not like sports, but I loved playing it. Um, so that was the kind of teacher that just inspired you and really made learning fun. And I will forever, um, remember him. I wrote him, uh, when I was a senior in high school, they had us like write a letter to one of our old teachers and that was who I chose.
[00:22:10] Olivia: Yeah. Beautiful. You know, I, I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for your reporting and, um, it, it felt like it's a centrist article in a way that you offer such different perspectives. And that's what I also appreciate from Chalkbeat as a publication. Um, you give a thorough, uh, Viewpoint of the topic and even your title of the article, you had me on edge and then you flipped it back and say, well, I've got to know I've got to jump in and read. Um, so I, I hope you keep doing this important work and this is the first of many conversations that we have, um, about the education system and let's just hope things become clearer as of January, 2025.
[00:22:50] Kalyn: Me too. I hope so.
[00:22:52] Olivia: Yeah. Take care. Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts, or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube.
[00:23:19] Olivia: Thank you to my guest, Kayln Belsha, for taking the time to discuss potential impacts of Trump's campaign promise to dismantle the Department of Education, focusing on services for students with disabilities. Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Let me know how your school or district currently provides services for students with disabilities. What are they getting right? And what could they do better? Tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. Stay tuned for my bonus episode every Friday, where I'll share how I applied what I learned from the guests in schools that week. See you then.
