The TRUTH About Daycare (Myths & Misconceptions) with Dr. Dan Wuori

In this episode (S4E21), I welcome Dr. Dan Wuori, founder of Early Childhood Policy Solutions and strategic advisor at The Saul Zaentz Charitable Foundation™, to discuss his book, The Daycare Myth: What We Get Wrong About Early Care and Education (and What We Should Do About It).

Key Discussion Points:

➡️The three simple truths of early development: learning begins in utero, the prenatal to age 3 period is uniquely consequential, and brain development is optimized through stable one-on-one interactions

➡️Why terms like "daycare" and "childcare" need to be reconceptualized to reflect their true educational nature

➡️The crisis in early childhood education, including 40% annual teacher attrition and severe wage disparities

➡️State-level innovations in early childhood policy, highlighting initiatives in New Mexico, Vermont, Washington D.C., and North Dakota

➡️The economic case for investing in early childhood education, featuring research by Nobel laureate James Heckman showing a 13.1% annual return on investment

Striking Statistics:

💡1 in 4 American mothers must return to work within two weeks of giving birth

💡Early childhood educators earn 59 cents per hour less than dog walkers

💡40% of early childhood teachers leave the field annually

Some Episode Mentions:

➡️ Research by Dr. James Heckman, Nobel Prize-winning economist

➡️ New Mexico's free child care program is bringing relief that millions of U.S. families need

➡️ The Vermont Child Care Contribution

➡️ Washington D.C. Early Childhood Educator Pay Equity Fund

➡️ North Dakota - Governor Doug Burgum

➡️ South Carolina Pre-K to Kindergarten Transition Plan: Family Engagement

#TheDaycareMyth #EarlyChildhood #ECE #ChildDevelopment #EarlyLearning #EducationPolicy #TeacherPay #WorkingParents #ParentingResources  #EarlyEd #ChildCareReform #BrainDevelopment #EarlyYears #PreschoolTeacher #EducationEquity #InfantCare #TeacherRights #FamilyPolicy #PaidLeave #StatePolicy #EducationInvestment #PreK #ECETeachers #ChildrensRights #EarlyIntervention #EducationReform

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Hi there. I'm so happy you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Dr. Dan Wuori. Dan argues that America's early childhood system needs fundamental reform, as we're currently paying for ineffective approaches rather than investing in evidence-based solutions that would better serve children, families, and society at large.

Olivia: You'll learn three simple truths about early development. Why terms like daycare and childcare should be abandoned. And how several states are leading the way in early childhood reform. Stay with us. I am so happy to have you join our conversation. This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom.

Olivia: A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support [00:01:00] they need to thrive. I am Olivia Wahl and I am so happy to welcome my guest today, Dr. Dan Wuori. I'll tell you a little bit about Dan if you haven't already gotten to know him.

Olivia: Dan is the founder and president of Early Childhood Policy Solutions, LLC. He is a strategic advisor on early childhood at The Saul Zaentz Charitable Foundation ™. Dan is also the Founding Director of Early Learning at the Hunt Institute in Cary, North Carolina. And Dan, you have so much credit in this game because you were a kindergarten teacher.

Dan: I was. 

Olivia: You were a school district administrator and a state agency administrator. Um, I am so honored to hold space for this conversation. I've been carrying your book around. Perfect size of 100 pages of goodness. I have the book right here. Um, the book's called The Daycare Myth: What We Get Wrong About Early Care and Education (and What We Should Do About It).

Olivia: Um, you offer a myriad of strategies so we can all hit the ground running. Um, and. Dan, I just need to let you know, before we jump into conversation, that the week of the election, the election happened and my husband and I were out to dinner with another couple. And we were talking about how we're all going to move forward and regardless of how everyone voted. And I was talking about the hope you give me, um, with your social posts, but the book, and I truly believe that this is the way. Our world needs to move forward to make humanity what it could be. And I don't say that lightly. Um, and so if you as a listener have not picked up Dan's book yet, that's a must. And then, um, listen to this conversation because I think it will give you the same hope that I hold, but [00:03:00] Dan, I can't thank you enough for this. Um, so I'm excited. 

Dan: Well, Olivia, that's a, what a, what a kind introduction and thank you, um, for the invitation to be here. I've been looking forward to it. 

Olivia: Me too. Um, so I asked you ahead of time, I like to offer guests a piece of research or a researcher that you lean on often that ties to this work. Can you speak to that? 

Dan: Absolutely. I, um, you know, that's, uh, that's a hard, I, I see all of your books behind you, like as a former kindergarten teacher, like people ask like, what, what's your favorite children's book. And I always say like, oh, that's like, like picking a favorite child. Right. Yeah. Um, and, and I, I think of research very much the same way. There's so much that has, um, has influenced me, but it's, you know, as you know, from, um, from looking at the book, I have, uh, spent a lot of time immersed in the work of, uh, James Heckman, um, preparing for that book.

Dan: But for listeners who may not be familiar, Dr. Heckman is a Nobel prize winning economist, uh, formerly of the Minneapolis Federal Reserve [00:04:00] Bank, uh, currently a professor of economics at the University of Chicago. But what Dr. Heckman has has done that I think is so, um, revolutionary for the early childhood field is that he has spent decades looking at the return on investment, um, from, uh, you know, uh, public public investments in high quality programs for for young children and so has been able to take some of the foundational studies in the field are, you know, our best known longitudinal studies that are now going on 50 and 60 years worth of tracking participants and has really been able to, you know, translate that to, you know, to the long-term return to taxpayers.

Dan: I'm, you know, I'm frequently asked very much, um, on social media, for example, like, why should I pay for somebody else's child to, you know, child care or X, Y, Z? And, you know, I think what Dr. Heckman helps us to understand, um, you know, in terms of those [00:05:00] long term benefits is that we're already paying, right where we're paying we’re just you know, the book the book very much makes the case that we are, we are paying for the system. We need we're just doing it in all the dumbest ways, right? 

Dan: That we're that we're we seem content uh to pay endlessly and to saddle taxpayers with the cost of uh, you know greater dependence on social services and adulthood or poor health outcomes or more interactions with the criminal justice system, um, than, than, you know, would otherwise, um, be the case.

Dan: We know that, that high quality investments in young children help to mitigate against all of these, you know, terrifically costly negative outcomes later in life. And so I think, um, you know, boy, Dr. Heckman's, uh, work, which, you know, which shows ultimately, uh, a 13.1% uh, annual return on investment, which is, you know, roughly [00:06:00] double what the standard and poor's 500, um, returns in the, in the stock market. Um, so boy, his, his work has been very influential in helping to shape the message of this book. 

Olivia: I would say to it for folks that read the book or continue to read the book over and over like me, I have highlighted pages, annotated pages, posted it. It's helping me get smarter about the conversations I need to be having as well. Um, and one of right out of the gate, when I got to the three simple truths. That hit me hard. Um, so I'd love for you to illuminate that for listeners. What are the three simple truths to early development? 

Dan: Yeah, well, so the, the, you know, the book itself, um, is sort of unpacks what I describe as the, the disconnect between what we know from the science of early development and how that is translated, or frankly, in most cases, not [00:07:00] well translated. In our public policy. And so in the first chapter, I spend some time basically reviewing and introducing readers to, uh, sort of a synopsis. I, you know, in all fairness, the three simple truths of that, you know, that that name is something I kind of coined for the book. But the, you know, the content is certainly not original research on my part.

Dan: It's my effort to, um, you know, provide a, a pithy synopsis of, you know, what do we know from, uh, decades of research on young children? And, and it, and it comes down right now to, to these three things, right? That first, that, uh, you know, despite the fact that we, you know, we frequently hear policymakers talk about wanting young children to come to kindergarten ready to learn. Right. As if that's where learning begins, what we know, you know, the first of those truths is that learning actually begins in utero and never stops. Right. And, and, and that's a really, um, you know, uh, exciting. I want to unpack the [00:08:00] other truths, but that is a really, um, exciting and important line of research right now that I think is really cutting edge in the, in the field.

Dan: Right. That, that, you know, even to say that children are learning from day one, um, um, is a little bit, um, underselling the case, right? That we know that, um, you know, for example, the children's brains are beginning to wire themselves around, uh, you know, if not the vocabulary at that point, certainly the, the rhythms and the patterns of their mother's native language and that young children's brains, uh, sort of light up in the hours after birth and response to their mother's native language in a way that they don't to, um, to foreign languages.

Dan: Um, so, you know, the learning begins in utero and never stops is, is the first of those. The second is that this period from prenatal to three is a uniquely consequential window in all of human development. It is the time during which the [00:09:00] fundamental architecture of the brain is wired, ideally, um, in ways that will help to undergird our long term success, not only in school, but in life. And so, you know, those, those early years take on a terrific importance. And then the third of those relates to how do we optimize those connections? And the answer is that this, you know, that this brain development is optimized through stable, nurturing one on one interactions between infants and highly engaged adults.

Dan: Um, and so, you know, the combination of those three things is, um, you know, in, in my estimation, sadly, you know, very much at odds with the way we think about young children and the way that we have structured our systems for young children in this country, the, the title, the daycare myth um, refers to this idea that, you know, we have, um, [00:10:00] we have sort of conceptualized for the better part of a hundred years now, um, child care or daycare as this, as this separate, um, you know, this, this special thing that is separate and distinct from education, right?

Dan: That young children need care and, and by care in this case, I'm not necessarily talking about, okay nurture, right? Because we, you know, in, in, in the, in the context of those three simple truths, obviously, you know, those stable, loving, nurturing interactions are, are absolutely key. What I'm talking about is really care more at the policy level, sort of the idea that, you know, that, that what, you know, what, what babies need primarily is someone to watch over and make sure they'll be safe for eight hours while, while their parents are at work.

Dan: Um, you know, the, the, the, there is this thing called daycare that, you know, that it is a safe, warm place where, you know, reasonably your child will be fed and have their diaper changed and will still [00:11:00] be intact when you get back at the end of the day. Right. Um, you know, the, the, that's what young children need, but that it is when, you know, when they get slightly older. That they get involved in rich forms of learning and, um, education. And we just know that that's not the case, right? 

Olivia: No, it's not. It's not. I also, I, you, I I'm flooded with thinking back of being pregnant with both of my boys and the experiences and I think sometimes caregivers, um, don't know how important those moments are of even playing music for children in utero. And I remember we would play the Beatles and then shift to classical, and we would actually watch the way the boys moved inside just in reaction and response. And then we. would watch during tummy time after they were first born [00:12:00] of how when we played that music, the same music that was played in utero, they would respond and react.

Olivia: So I think like these moments of gold. That they cannot be underestimated. And before we go into why we have to banish some of the terms that you just spoke to, I also want to just highlight every morning when I wake up very early, the world is a quiet place when I get up and I love it that way. Um, I find you on social because you are a bright light and the videos you capture and you post are such great examples of what you just spoke to those nurturing, engaging interactions that go unnoticed sometimes in households. And my favorite thing about what you're doing, I've heard, you know, you're the most positive person on [00:13:00] social. I think it's so much richer than that, what you're doing, it's really showing other grownups with babies, what the possibilities are. These are moments that really matter. So I wanted to just ask you, I've been dying to ask you this. How do you acquire these magical videos that you post on social? Do caregivers just send them to you? Like, how do you get them? 

Dan: Increasingly, the answer is yes, that, uh, you know, as, as that project has, um, that has sort of taken, taken wing, um, you know, I have families from all over the world that are, that are sending me, uh, videos, um, you know, that they have taken of their own kids, but a lot of them, you know, in, in fairness are sourced right, right to social media, right? That these are, these are videos that are floating out there on TikTok and Instagram and, yeah. Um, you know, what I, what I have done here in recent years is, is look for those video examples that, you know, Olivia and you, you may have had the same experience, you know, when [00:14:00] I was, um, you know, a pre service teacher learning about child development for the first time, everything I learned, I had to learn in a book, um, or, or, you know, maybe if you were very lucky, you had an opportunity to go and there was a lab preschool with a, a two way mirror that you could look through for a little while.

Dan: And, um, But, um, you know, I think, you know, it, it just, it has sort of dawned on me that not only as teachers, but as parents, we very much have to learn these things on the job. And, um, you know, social media has been now such a treasure trove of, um. Practical examples. And so, you know, where, where this started, I wish I could tell you at the beginning, it was, uh, you know, a very strategic thing. What, what actually happened tonight? I wish I could even remember what the exact, you know, kind of first video was. I was posting a lot about my work in the policy world. Um, and, you know, ran across a viral video of a, of a baby that was [00:15:00] incredibly adorable and, um, you know, I don't remember the specific content, but the, you know, the gist of the sort of all of my, uh, social media posts is yes, absolutely, this is adorable, but it's so much more right that there's look at all of the development that is on display here. 

Dan: Look at the language learning that is happening and the motor skills that are developing and the wonderful interactions between parents and children. And so, you know, a lot of that is sourced and cited. Um, you know, back to the original, um, posters and, you know, my contribution to that, um, is sort of curating those videos, maybe being, you know, being a watchful eye for them, but then adding in the commentary around, let's, let's unpack a little bit about what we're actually seeing 

Olivia: It's brilliant. 

Dan: And I, you know, I think of it now, um, you know, though I sort of half jokingly say there wasn't, um, you know, kind of a master strategy to this to [00:16:00] begin with. There very much is, you know, at this point, I think of it as a kind of a public education campaign, uh, you know, a steady drum beat around actually those three simple truths, right. To help people to understand, um, you know, this is not just a, um, You know, I think a lot of people think of babies as being, um, you know, not, not quite ready for prime time, I guess, in a way, right? That we, you know, like, like, even the, you know, even the idea that we, that we need to be reading and talking, um. You know, is understandably, frankly, a kind of a foreign idea for some parents. Like, why would you, why would you talk to someone who can't speak back to you? Um, but, um, you know, what we know is that they are watching and they are learning and you know, that the models that you're providing are so powerful.

Dan: And so, you know, I'm trying to lift that up each day to help [00:17:00] parents really understand. Um, you know, they're really that second of the, of the truths that that period from prenatal, the three is the, you know, the most consequential window in, in all of human development. And then the book, um, is I, in my mind, sort of the flip side to that coin, which is to say, if we know these things to be true, then what do we need to do about it, or in this case, what do we need to do differently in our, in our public policy?

Olivia: Yes, and I, I just want to highlight again that idea of parallel practice, because that is my favorite thing about the videos you are labeling and naming the magic that is happening behind the video. And I love that they're curated with that thought process, because then they're replicable other grownups watching can name what their children are doing in those moments that are just filled with joy and they're [00:18:00] really magical. So I appreciate that a lot. And, um, you know, we do need to banish some terms. We need to get rid of terms from our collective vocabulary if we're going to move forward. And, um, so you just said. We need to think of the simple, the second simple truth, um, but we need to do that by banishing the term daycare and the term childcare. Can you speak more to why you've already scratched the surface, but let's go a little bit deeper with it. 

Dan: Well, I, you know, I think, uh, to me, the, the primary message and, you know, you'll know, and, um, uh, maybe I should explain for readers the book, the book, you know, despite it's, um, it's a compact uh, concise length is is really targeting three different audiences concurrently, right? That it is for parents, it is for policy makers, and it is for early childhood professionals, um, which, which covers a pretty wide, uh, swath of, [00:19:00] of all of us at this, um, uh, at this point in, in adulthood. But I think, you know, the, the most important message. You know, if I if I could, you know, in in one sentence, say to parents, what's the most important thing that you need to know from this book?

Dan: It is that as you are selecting, um, you know, what's going to happen for your baby, right? Whether you whether you're going to stay home with your infant, whether you're going to choose an out of home program, the decisions that you make for your baby are hugely consequential. And what you're selecting in this case is not; and let me underline, not, but not a babysitter, right? You're not picking a babysitter. You are literally selecting the adults who will co construct your child's brain. 

Olivia: No pressure. No pressure! 

Dan: And that's, and that's, you know, I mean, right, no, no pressure, but, but, but pressure, right? I mean, it's something, it's something, it's something that you need to [00:20:00] be mindful of. And, um, you know, you need to make that. Choice incredibly carefully and incredibly thoughtfully. And so, you know, I am, um, on a bit of a crusade. It's funny in the field. Um, you, you know, you may know that even the term daycare has fallen very much out of. Uh, out of favor, um, but, but in favor of, of childcare, which is, you know, probably an incremental step forward in the book, though, I, you know, I, I make the case that we probably need to be moving away from both of those labels, right? That the people who work with young children during this formative stage of development are not babysitters. They're not daycare workers. Um, they're not childcare providers. They're teachers. 

Olivia: They are. 

Dan: And, uh, you know, that, you know, that all environments for young children are learning environments. There's no such thing as a, as a [00:21:00] strictly care environment, despite our best efforts to sort of create this false dichotomy that, you know, that young children are learning in, in every environment that, um, you know, that whether, you know, whether you want to call them, you know, early childhood education, early care and education, or just call them school.

Dan: Um, that's, you know, these are learning environments second only to the home in, in terms of their importance. And so, you know, part of the message, uh, you know, I, I talked to parents about, you know, the importance of selecting those settings. You know, one of the primary messages to the early childhood field in this book is that we have to do a better job of claiming our titles.

Dan: Right. And that, um, you know, you, you can't expect to be, uh, seen necessarily or respected necessarily or compensated, uh, as, as the professionals that, that we are, that you are, um, [00:22:00] until you yourself, um, you know, claim that mantle and claim those titles. And so I think, you know, we could, we could go a very long way toward helping policy makers and the public to reconceptualize what these places really are by making some adjustments in our terminology and abandoning terms like daycare.

Olivia: I also keep thinking of the choices that you were just speaking to, because I know so many other caregivers that are at that precipice of really loving their careers and really wanting to stay home with babies. And I do not feel like the states have set caregivers up for success when it comes to that at all, at all. And so can you speak then to, you know, how could we provide more meaningful choice, um, that would support [00:23:00] caregivers, both that want to stay at home and in the workforce? 

Dan: Well, so, you know, one of the more shocking statistics that I ran across in, in researching this book that is included is that one in four American mothers has to return to the workforce full-time within two weeks. It's crazy of giving birth. Isn't that amazing? Two weeks. Yeah. And so, and, and you know, in, in fairness, um, you know, that's not the case for, for most. Mothers, um, you know, most have a slightly better situation. Certainly, you know, mothers working in professional fields and, you know, that there are employers who provide in many cases, very, uh, you know, or at least comparatively robust kind of paid family leave policies.

Dan: But let me assure you, if you're, uh, if you're working at a fast food restaurant as a cashier, chances are good that you're not going to get four months of paid leave or six months of paid leave when you have a, when you have a new, a new [00:24:00] baby arrive in your, in your home. And so, um, you know, that is, uh, you know, if, if I have a regret about the book is I feel like I could have done an entire chapter just on, uh, just on this, maybe an added it in because we, you know, what we know is that the earliest weeks and months, uh, of life are an absolutely critical time in the formation of attachment, right?

Dan: That secure attachment between infants and their caregivers is the foundation of their long-term mental health. Um, and you know, what we have currently is a system that interrupts that. process for all too many kids, right? Whether it is that, you know, that, uh, mom has to return, uh, to work full time within two weeks. Um, or, you know, frankly, you know, we are, we are facing such a crisis in the early childhood field. We know that, you know, in these, um, early care and [00:25:00] education settings and, you know, in what we call child care settings in particular that, uh, you know, that upward of 40 percent of teachers revolve out of that field, leave the classroom every year, you know, there's this 40 percent attrition rate.

Dan: And so it, you know, it precisely the time, uh, you know, that young children need that third of the simple truth, right? The secure, nurturing, face to face interactions with, you know, highly engaged adults, we are instead providing them sort of a revolving door of, um, of adults who are, you know, in many cases, you know, ill-prepared, um, for the work they haven't, they haven't been in the field long enough to, um, you know, develop the kind of knowledge and expertise that we would hope for them to, um, um, um, you know, they, they aren't compensated sufficiently to, uh, to really realistically ask that they [00:26:00] further their education any more than they already have.

Dan: In many cases, you know, states are looking for, um, you know, uh, individuals who are 18 years old, hopefully, um, frankly, and even, even that is starting to erode. But, uh, you know, I mean, ideally 18 years old and with a a clean criminal background check and that's sort of the bar, um, for employment in, in, you know, all too many of these, um, of these settings. The reason for that in, in part is, you know, again, going back to this daycare myth idea, you know, when, when we don't conceptualize of these places as educational, when we don't conceptualize of what happens for children as as deep forms of learning and optimizing their early development, uh, and instead think of this is almost like a holding pen for children, um, you know, that that has a very big impact on the respect of [00:27:00] those, um, of those teachers and their compensation.

Dan: And what we know right now is that, um, you know, the, the people who work in these classrooms by and large make not only less, but dollars an hour less in many cases, then people we employ to hand French fries through a window, um, or, um, you know, the, the most recent data from the Bureau of labor statistics, um, you know, suggests that the childcare teachers are making 59 cents an hour, less than dog walkers um, in this country. 

Olivia: It's that I mean, it's shameful and I also, there was a line in the book that I highlighted it and I read it over and over because I know the implications you've done such a beautiful job of speaking to each of the audiences that you mentioned earlier of this is what you need to do to move forward in the process. And the, the line that I go back to is a lot of this [00:28:00] reform does sit on the shoulders of Congress. So what could we do? What do we need to do? Or what do we need to ask Congress to do to shift some of these patterns that are not okay right now? 

Dan: Well, a couple of things. I think, you know, first is that I, you know, I, I wrote this book in hopes that it would be an opportunity for us to just pause and reflect right on the sort of the error of our ways, I think, um, you know, the, the book makes the case that, you know, we're not, not that I think this is, by the way, a diabolical plot. But I do think that if, you know, if, if we went through the thought exercise of saying, all right, we, you know, I'm going to challenge you to create the worst possible system, like, if you, you know, if you, if you went through this exercise and thought, what would be the worst system, you know, a system that would [00:29:00] really poorly reflect what we know about the needs of young children, frankly, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better example of that than what families are forced to navigate in this country each and every day. 

Dan: And so, you know, my hope is that this is an opportunity, um, to just think differently to stop and say, wait a minute, is this, you know, are we, are we doing the right things here? And we're not. And so, you know, uh, you know, job number 1 is that I'm, you know, I am hopeful that, um, policy makers will use this book to do just that, to sort of reflect on, wait a minute, um, you know, uh, what are the implications of this system that we have in terms of not only the, you know, the individual, uh, development of children, which may be of, you know, the greatest interest, obviously, to the, the children themselves and their families, but what are the implications for taxpayers and for, for state economy and [00:30:00] then for, you know, employers and, um, you know, all of these other, all of these other systems.

Dan: So I think, you know, just even the messaging is important, but I do think, you know, to your point that Congress plays an important role. You know, one of the, one of the exciting things that has come out of my work at the, you know, the Hunt Institute and now in my, you know, my private consulting practice is that I see huge bipartisan support, um, for investments in children, but primarily at the state level right now, um, it, you know, it may not surprise any of your listeners to know that, um, uh, Congress in particular is, um, kind of a uniquely divisive place, um, in recent years, especially, and, and, and maybe even to say in recent years is, uh, is to, is to underestimate how divisive, uh, you know, uh, and partisan a place it has been.

Dan: But, um, you know, I think the, the end result, the danger of, of leaving too [00:31:00] much to this to the whims of the individual states, though. There are states that are absolutely leading in this space Is that we we create a really inequitable system across the country, right? Where where you know a child who happens to be born in this state may have access to really robust kinds of supports. Whereas, you know, children born across the state line, even next door, um, you know, may may well not have, um, you know, any, anywhere near the same opportunity. So I do think that it is, you know, it is incumbent on Congress make sure that we've got the resources in place to, um, you know, to really make a transformative change.

Dan: The book calls for both, uh, you know, a transformative, uh, investment in children and families. Um, but also recognizing that that transformative, you know, that, you know, transformative, uh, changes rarely happen in one big [00:32:00] fell swoop also also provides, you know, a list of opportunities, um, some low hanging fruit for things that we're doing wrong that we, you know, with all the best intentions, um, probably need to fix and then also highlight some some really promising practices on the states as well.

Olivia: So, Dan, would you mind highlighting to for us which states are leading the way? And could you name a couple without revealing too much of those? Yeah, I think it'd be helpful. 

Dan: So, you know, in terms of states that are leading the way, I think, you know, there are there are a couple, um, that you know, a couple of places that spring to mind, obviously, you know, New Mexico has received a lot of attention here in recent years, about two years ago now, they had a constitutional amendment on the, on the ballot that would enshrine in the state constitution, a right to, um, you know, early [00:33:00] childhood, um, funding, uh, you know, a greater funding for early childhood programs. And with that, they have managed to you very dramatically increase their program offerings dramatically increase the number of families in the states that qualify for child care subsidies.

Dan: For example, I mean, families at a much higher level of of income than, um, you know, than maybe in, in other states. Um, Vermont has done something, uh, similar recently. They, um, they, uh, passed a, a small, uh, kind of fractional payroll tax, uh, to help to, to support their early childhood system, um, which on a, you know, on a per capita basis, they're actually many fewer children in Vermont than there are in, in New Mexico. And so on a per capita basis, arguably Vermont has gone. Even a little further, um, than, than New Mexico has, I think, um, you know, Washington DC is, is leading in a special way. They have, um, they have [00:34:00] enacted something called the pay equity fund, but it is a, um, it's a marginal tax increase on, on the highest income earners in the, in the district.

Dan: They are using this, you know, this small new tax to help to close the compensation gap um, in, in early childhood. And so with, with funds from that pay equity fund, they are able to provide, um, you know, teachers in childcare settings, um, currently a 14,000 increase annually on their, on their salaries. Um, but I think it's important to say too, that, you know, that this is happening in, in red States, in blue States, every, everywhere in between. I, you know, I did some, um, some work I'm very proud of here recently, um, you know, with the Governor Burgum and his administration in North Dakota, where they made a really historic new investment and, um, you know, uh, in the working families of the state to expand, [00:35:00] um, uh, child care access, uh, my home state of South Carolina is highlighted in the book as a real leader in the work of Governor Burgum um, you know, their mixed delivery PreK system. Um, and so it's, you know, it's happening, um, happening in, in, in pockets all across the country. 

Olivia: It is, and I so appreciate you offering those examples because I think I learn through models just as a teacher myself, um, and as a mom, and I think it's critical that if we're asking Congress to make these major shifts, they need to understand there are many places, individual states that are doing this work that we can use as examples and create this Gorgeous model, um, that that borrows the goodness from all, um, is potential. I think if we start leaning on those strengths and what better way could we start to unite and come together around our differences than [00:36:00] around children, then her own babies, hope for the future. I can't imagine one person down that would say, no, I'm going to pass on that. I don't want to invest in the future of our world.

Olivia: I, I find, you know, that to me is a really good way to hit the ground running with this work. Um, and I know the other piece I do want to circle back to, you mentioned, um, the research at the beginning of our conversation, and I just want listeners to really understand. These systems, we are already paying, you know, we speak to the investment. We are already, I'm going to say, wasting money on the way that we are, right. And so the, you illuminate in this book. Ways to rethink the money that's already being wasted and really innovative, game changing ways for our children and for their families. And that's what I [00:37:00] appreciate with your perspective.

Olivia: It's not asking for more. It's asking to pause, reflect and do better with what we're, you know, we know, because there's so much research to support it. Um, I, I want to end with a quote from your book, if it's okay. Uh, this really struck my heart and while I'm getting ready to read a little, um, who is an early childhood teacher that, you know, that you could speak to that maybe, you know, from your life or that is doing this work every day.

Dan: Hmm. Gosh, I mean, that's sort of sort of like back to that children's book question. I almost hate to single anyone out because there's so, you know, the, the, the early childhood workforce in this, in this country is doing. Absolutely heroic work every day, right? Working to, you know, to build the brains [00:38:00] of, of individual kids. It was, it was, you know, I mean, to me, you know, maybe the, it's, it's strange to think about like silver linings from COVID, you know, particularly at the height of the pandemic. It was such a hard time for so many, so many people, but one of the beautiful things that happened during the, you know, the kind of the height of the COVID pandemic is I feel like for the first time.

Dan: Our early childhood teachers got the do that they deserve that they were, you know, that they were thought of as being essential workers and, and, and their, you know, their value was uplifted for other essential workers. And it was, it was so funny, you know, particularly at, um, at the height of the pandemic, you know, as, as, you know, a lot of workplaces and schools were closed that, you know, all across social media, I was, you know, sort of seeing these messages every day about, you know, these, these early childhood teachers ought to be making a million dollars a year because [00:39:00] I, you know, I'm realizing how hard this is. And, um, so I just, um, you know, I, I, I I, this, this book is, is very much sort of a love letter to the whole, the whole field. 

Olivia: It is. And I, I appreciate that too. And this, this is where I, I just, I want to end because I think it helps us be inspired to take action. Um, this idea of tying action to knowledge has always had a special appeal to me.

Olivia: And these are your words. “In much of life, we act on the basis of cultural norms and popular wisdom. The associated peer pressure can be powerful, not leading us actively astray as much as creating conditions in which we never even pause to question widely held assumptions, until we know better, that is, at which point we are all called to act. It is my sincere hope that having engaged with this book, you now know better [00:40:00] when it comes to the value of the early years and the brokenness of our associated systems and policies. What happens next is up to you.”

Olivia: And Dan, you know, you have given us the tools to know exactly what we need to do, and I am forever grateful to you for doing this. Um, I carry your book with me all the time in schools and dinner conversations. So, um, you just. You're a really significant human in this world, an advocate for our children, and I'm so lucky to know you. Thank you, Dan, for this important work. 

Dan: Thank you for, for the invitation to be here, Olivia. I, I might, I might just punctuate what you, what you just read with, with one other quote that, you know, that I, had I run across it at the time I was writing, maybe I, I would have included, um, but just to, um, you know, the, the Chinese, uh, philosopher Lao Tsu said that, “To know and not to act, [00:41:00] is not to know.”

Dan: And so my, my hope, um, in writing this book is, you know, I, I think that quote that you read encapsulates it really nicely. My, you know, my hope in, in writing this was to change the conversation, to give an opportunity for us to take what is like the water where, you know, the air we're breathing and the, you know, the water we're swimming in, um, that sometimes we don't question very much, right? It's just sort of the way things are, um, and to, and to really think about it, um, critically and differently, um, because the consequences in, in this case are, are really huge. So thank you so much for the invitation to be here. 

Olivia: Yeah, it's an honor. Thank you, Dan. Take Care. Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music playing in the [00:42:00] background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts, or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Dr. Dan Wuori, for sharing how we can fundamentally reform the early childhood system as we know it.

Olivia: Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Let me know how you and your community are prioritizing and funding early childhood education. Tune in every Monday for the best research backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. Stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday, where I'll share how I applied what I learned from the guests in schools that week. See you then!