S4 E27: How The Ability Challenge is Transforming Special Education with Sarah Sandelius & Kristen N. Briggs

Join me as I speak with Sarah Sandelius and Kristen N. Briggs from The Ability Challenge about revolutionizing special education through their groundbreaking THRIVE Framework. We need to shift from deficit-based thinking to presuming competence in all learners.

You'll Learn:

• Why focusing on Tier 1 instruction is essential for ALL students
• How to move beyond compliance metrics to meaningful student outcomes
• The critical difference between visible and invisible disabilities
• Why "kids will meet whatever bar you set for them, low or high"
• Practical strategies for creating truly inclusive learning environments

Sarah Sandelius, a former lawyer who founded The Ability Challenge, shares her personal journey from witnessing educational inequity to creating systems-level change. Kristen N. Briggs brings her invaluable perspective as a special education teacher and school leader, highlighting how intentional support systems can transform educational experiences for students with disabilities.

Episode Mentions: 

• National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD)
  • Insights for Navigating the Transition to Adulthood
  • Forward Together
• IDEA
• MTSS-i
• Juliana Tapper, M.Ed - Teaching 6-12 Math Intervention
• The Ability Challenge's 2025 White Paper "From ABC to THRIVE" 

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Introduction and overview 
• 01:00 - Meet Sarah Sandelius and Kristen Briggs 
• 02:00 - Research that informs their work 
• 03:50 - Kristen on lived experience vs. academic research 
• 06:10 - Sarah's journey to founding The Ability Challenge 
• 09:56 - Understanding visible vs. invisible disabilities 
• 11:59 - What schools could do better to support students 
• 13:21 - The problem of "Tier 2 and 3 ourselves out of a Tier 1 challenge" 
• 17:23 - The importance of collaborative professional learning 
• 19:29 - The THRIVE Framework explained 
• 21:50 - Taking a systems-level approach to special education 
• 24:40 - Moving beyond compliance metrics to meaningful assessment 
• 27:46 - Grade-level content access for all students 
• 29:08 - The "what, so what, now what" data analysis protocol 
• 31:32 - Setting high expectations and checking educator biases 
• 34:34 - Future vision and emerging trends in special education 
• 37:17 - Building teacher knowledge around specialized instruction 
• 38:37 - Resources for understanding functions of behavior 
• 39:12 - Reimagining staffing approaches

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Hi there, I'm so happy you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Sarah Sandelius and Kristen Briggs of The Ability Challenge. Through my conversation with Sarah and Kristen, you'll learn why effective special education requires a systemic shift from a deficit-based, compliance-focused approach to one that presumes competence, centers diverse learners, and provides all students access to grade level content through intentional support systems.

Olivia: You'll leave the conversation understanding why focusing on Tier 1 instruction is essential, why student needs should drive systems design and why data analysis must be precise and action oriented. Stay with us. I'm so excited to have you join our conversation. This is Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies.

Olivia: The podcast that [00:01:00] extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive. I am Olivia Wahl and I am so happy to welcome my guests today, Sarah Sandelius and Kristen Briggs.

Olivia: Let me tell you a little bit about Sarah and Kristen. Sarah is a lawyer with more than 15 years of experience implementing strategy and policy on behalf of our nation's youth. Sarah is the founder of The Ability Challenge, which offers partnership and support to schools and districts working to improve learning outcomes for students with disabilities.

Olivia: Kristen Briggs leads The Ability Challenge's programming development. Kristen joined The Ability Challenge team with over a decade of experience as a special education teacher, a school and network leader, and most [00:02:00] recently as a nonprofit director. Sarah and Kristen, I am grateful for your friendships.

Olivia: I am grateful for our thought partnership that we've been developing over time. And I said to both of you, you have to be guests on the podcast because your experience and the strategies you have to offer are vast and incredibly helpful and inspiring to every listener that I have. So welcome, welcome, welcome.

Sarah: Well, thank you for having us. 

Olivia: Yes. I'm so excited to jump into our conversation. And I asked both of you beforehand to have a little bit of a nugget of research or a researcher that you think of often when it comes to the work you're doing. Sarah, can you start us off?  

Sarah: Sure, so I actually thought a lot about this because if anyone follows me on LinkedIn, I post a lot of [00:03:00] research and I always have more questions than answers after I read research. Um, so I've chosen to highlight some of the work from, um, NCLD, this National Center for Learning, um, Learning Disabilities because of two particular pieces of research that they've put out. One was their recent report on the state of learning differences. And the reason I loved it was because I went to their release and they talked about the process behind the research and how they did it.

Sarah: And they really worked with young people. It's all about young people and the transition to adulthood. And they talked about how they asked for young people to provide insight into the questions they were asking and the methods for collecting the information.

Sarah: And they really tried to use the people who they were soliciting information from in the design of the study, which I thought was just really cool. [00:04:00] And then the other research that I quote all the time is a 2019 piece that they put out called Learning Forward - Forward Together where they really looked at the state of the 1 in 5 students with disabilities in our country and the way in which they're experiencing school and how well prepared teachers feel about supporting them. And so those are two very different pieces, um, but both from NCLD. 

Olivia: Awesome. I will put links to both of those in the show notes as well for listeners. Yeah. Kristen, how about you? 

Kristen: Yeah. So this is a fun fact about me is I lean more on my experience and what I've seen firsthand. I will say that I don't tend to cite research beyond, um, like the statistics we know about representation of black and brown children. And [00:05:00] particularly in special education, um, largely because I think, like, I've, I've lived it and I've seen it firsthand. And I think that at times I understand the desire and rationale for being able to back things with research.

Kristen: But I think we also have to be really thoughtful about over intellectualizing things at times and seeking to almost like, want to, uh, there's something like over intellectualized sometimes I will say that the study that Sarah cited - the Forward Together study resonates deeply. With the experience that I've had, um, in particular, like, seeing students across various school settings and working with teachers in general education as colleagues, also coaching teachers as a school leader and in the nonprofit world, because the, what I see many times that teachers don't feel prepared, they often feel like special educators have some secret sauce that we're hiding.

Kristen: And what ends up happening is [00:06:00] they discover that, like, actually, we're doing a lot of the things that you already do, it’s just the level of intentionality that we're using and the different types of data that we're looking at to help us make these really strategic instructional decisions. 

Olivia: Kristen, I'll say I'm really happy you're part of this conversation because of your lived experience as a special education teacher, especially with the groups of children that you've served and been an advocate for. And so I think it may not be a particular research study or a researcher, but your knowledge that goes far beyond compliance metrics will be incredibly helpful in this conversation. So I'm grateful. Sarah, I need you to take us to the moment or the series of events that led you to the creation, and served as a catalyst for The Ability Challenge. Take us there with you. [00:07:00] 

Sarah: Okay, well, so I think it goes back. Um, I actually came to special education 1st as a lawyer, um, and ended up sort of through the path of being a lawyer, landing in the New York City Department of Education - District 79, which is the alternative school district and, uh, for various reasons, they had been sued for their, um alleged inability to implement IDEA. But when you think about implementing a law, like, in a non-traditional educational setting, like a school on Rikers Island, or a school in the juvenile detention facility, um, they were dealing with some really big issues around. How do you actually do that? Um, and so when I ended up working there, I really was able to dig into what does this law mean?

Sarah: How do we [00:08:00] apply it in a setting that doesn't look like a traditional school? Um, and that was an incredibly meaningful opportunity for me. Um, one of the things that I took away from that experience was that often the students who needed the most support were getting the least amount of support because of the systems that that they had been subjected to, um, at the same time that I was experiencing that I was also seeing members of my own family going through, um, the special education process or for their children or their child, and, um, I saw these very two stark differences in how, um, access to opportunities and access to resources could really impact what is a challenging experience for all families or for most families. Um, I saw my [00:09:00] family able to immediately go into action and get the young people what they needed.

Sarah: And I saw these other families or students without knowing much about the background and not trying not to make too many assumptions about it um, just feeling marginalized upon marginalized from the various systems that were not serving them. Um, and that juxtaposition of seeing those two realities at the same time was a moment for me.

Sarah: It wasn't until much later that I actually started the organization, but I think back to those times seeing those things at the same time um, which ultimately led me to the space of saying, if we're helping schools and school districts, do this work better, what does the school support organization actually do?

Sarah: And how do we make sure that we're as educators and leaders? [00:10:00] um, providing the right resources in the right places to get kids regardless of their backgrounds to get them what they need? Um, because just because a child has a disability does not mean that they should be getting anything different. Um, they may need additional supports, but it shouldn't be less than, it should be able to be tailored to what they need. And so I really started the ability challenge after having those two experiences and then going down the path of consulting and seeing how special education is implemented across different settings. 

Olivia: Well, but something in something you helped me better understand that was not on my radar like it should have been is the difference between visible and invisible disabilities. So can you speak to that a little bit too? 

Sarah: Sure, um, you know, I think we think that special education is something totally different that that there is this mysterious or mystical set of skills that a special education teacher graduates their program with [00:11:00] and that they're just able to meet the needs of all of the students who come through the building.

Sarah: Um, and whether or not a child has a visible disability; think traditionally, um, you can see when somebody comes into a building in a wheelchair or with, um, some sort of physical manifestation of a disability, um, versus the invisible disabilities, which are, um, you can't see them when you look at a child, um, but you can definitely, uh, they, they still impact learning in different ways.

Sarah: Um, those two different types of disabilities; schools, schools are required to serve everybody who walks through the door. Right? And so educators need to be experts in all of those different areas. So one thing that I will say is that on both sides, I think we're, we are dealing with challenges in mindsets and assumptions about [00:12:00] what students can and can't do.

Sarah: On the one hand with the with the visible disabilities, oftentimes we see, um, assumptions being made about what students can or can't do based on what they're what people are looking at. Um, and then with invisible disabilities, we're oftentimes, um, overlooking some of what children actually need because they can't see the manifestations of those things. It’s complicated

Olivia: Yeah, it's, it's fascinating. It is. It is complicated. And then, Kristen, I know your work when it comes to directing, uh, the special education programs, what are you finding that schools could do better to support, um, than your vast experience? 

Kristen: Yeah, so I have a couple of thoughts. One, I want to, I want to start with just acknowledging that schools are working incredibly hard. I, I don't think [00:13:00] we can ever overstate how hard people are working to meet the needs of kids, especially just. I mean, what we all have lived through in the past five years and so that's just important to stamp. I would say 1 thing that comes up and I'm going to build off of something Sarah was just speaking to with the invisible disabilities.

Kristen: Right? The point I would add is are the ways in which they manifest are not accurately attributed to the disabilities. And so one of the big things that we hear, especially in the past, you know, the post-COVID era, there's this, this influx in behaviors. We just don't know how to navigate behaviors and all of these things. And also hearing, you know, students, the needs are just so great and kids are just so far behind. And what I'm seeing, and I believe this is a trend that's being noticed by a number of people in education, is there's this attempt to try to, like, Tier 2 and Tier 3 ourselves out [00:14:00] of a Tier 1 challenge, right?

Kristen: So, if I'm a kiddo who may have a disability classification of, um, OHI for ADHD, or I have a specific learning disability and I'm in class and I'm over stimulated or I'm not stimulated at all, or I do not have an entry point because I don't understand the directions. 

Olivia: Yes, 

Kristen: Right? Or I'm trying to do an activity, but I'm 3 grade levels behind in reading and that barrier hasn't been addressed. That may manifest as I'm students quiet and because I'm quiet nobody comes and checks on me or it may manifest as I'm about to get up and walk around the room and go do whatever I want to do because that's just where I am. And for no fault, right? I think it's just like, people don't know what they don't know.

Kristen: There's a need to build the knowledge and skill of educators, leaders, interventionists, et cetera, around really understanding the root [00:15:00] of behaviors. And how to address those things, right? We talk about it organizationally. We say, like, separating the behavior from the student. So it's not Kristen's a bad kid. Kristen's engaging in a challenging behavior. We have to understand why. The other thing I see is there's a struggle with navigating staffing. We know that there is a staffing crisis much when it comes to education. And we hear a lot of schools. Like, we just don't have the staff. We just don't have the staff.

Kristen: We don't have I need more people. And this is something that I learned as a school leader when it came to programming kids and scheduling kids and we did it at the high school level. So my high school folks understand what I'm talking about. Scheduling in high school is not for the faint of heart. Where we often support folks is how do you actually start with your student needs first?

Kristen: Don't - let's not look at your adult limitations. Let's look at what your student needs require. And so that means getting out um, I remember being at [00:16:00] CEC years ago and there was someone from Charlotte Mecklenburg and she talked about how anytime she had a principal who said, I don't have staff. She's like, I went to their buildings. We put anchor charts on the walls. Every kid service got posted. So I have yet to experience a principal can't program all their kids. And so it's getting folks to kind of shift their perspective 

Olivia: Mindset…yeah.

Kristen: Their mindset to think about, like, center what your kids need first and let that tell the story. And so you might find that you still have a staffing shortage, but where you felt like you had a ten person shortfall, we're actually talking about like one and a half. That's a whole lot more, uh, easy to nav, not easy, but you can find some pathways with one and a half, 

Olivia: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I want to just make sure because we have, I have caregivers that tune in as well. So you, I want to go back to something you said they’re Tier 2 or Tier 3-ing in their way out of [00:17:00] Tier 1. so that's speaking to the Multi-Tiered Systems of Support that school districts lean on and that Tier 1 support is happening in the classroom from the general ed teacher. And it's interesting. I'm actually being interviewed for another podcast this afternoon around response to intervention and that need for more sustained tier 1 support. And what I'm finding Kristen is that the gen ed teachers need more tools to do exactly what you are just speaking to.

Olivia: And that sadly, most of the professional learning that I see happening in school districts, it doesn't have everyone around the table at the same time learning from each other. So there's training for special education teachers, for RTI teachers, interventionists, there's teacher professional learning for general ed [00:18:00] teachers, but it's not around the kids enough, you know, so I think it's just fascinating. Um, and yeah, the, the idea of: we have to focus on Tier 1. 

Kristen: Yeah, and it's, I, I'm shaking my head a lot because I, I've worked in the nonprofit and the curriculum world. And yeah, it was very much so like, and never do the worlds meet. It's like, well, where are your special educators? Because they need to know this and the thing, I'm a special education teacher to my core and our work rests on a solid foundation of sound universal instruction. When you do an IEP, you have to ask, you have to answer a question and it's asking you, are you sure that this child's disability is not a result of a lack of quality Tier 1 instruction and there's a number of criteria that determine if you answer how you answer that question.

Kristen: Like, well, there are teachers are all highly qualified and they're certified. There's something deeper there for me too [00:19:00] that you have to think about when it comes to, like, did we do every like, how we provided them with that quality instruction and then to the point you made around folks needing more tools.

Kristen: And they need support on how to effectively use them. People want a strategy fifteen ways to Sunday, the strategy we could lay out open like, here's fifty! And if you haven't gotten the, the professional learning, but also the coaching and feedback on how to effectively implement those things, review data to see how well they're working and how you can tune them - it can feel like, oh, I did this thing that didn't work. I need another strategy. I've done this. It didn't work. I need another strategy and that's not a knock to people. It's like, it's a human reaction. I think to say, like, I tried that thing. I keep trying it or I did it and it worked for a month and it stopped.

Olivia: Yeah, well, and so [00:20:00] that's why Sarah, the THRIVE framework, I think, is critical. So I'd love for you to explain what is the THRIVE framework. And then also, you know, how, how does it go against the idea of that deficit-based mindset? Um, that is traditional that we see all the time, especially. 

Sarah: Yeah, well, so THRIVE is our, um, stake in the ground around quality special education programming. We look at, there are five core elements, everything from a culture of inclusion, student-centered curriculum and instruction, um, to family, meaningful family partnerships and systems and supports. And then we got special ed right in the middle there. Um, and it looks beyond just, you know, a traditional special education model to say, if a whole school is doing this work well, what does that look like?

Sarah: And so when you ask about how it [00:21:00] goes in a different approach, um, one of the things that I have found really effective is to think about the different types of constructs that we use to talk about special education. And so if you think about a traditional medical model, um, which is sort of how IDEA, our big law, is written. It's, it treats disability as something that needs to be diagnosed and fixed. And for the people who are just listening, I'm, I'm making a lot of quotes, air quotes here.

Olivia: Air quotes are happening. Yep.

Sarah: Um. Right, and, and so you have to find out what is the disability, what is the problem, you wait until a child is in many cases behind, and then you provide an intervention and support and fix until they no longer need that. And that is sort of the way that IDEA is written. What THRIVE is more centered on is what some folks call the social model, which is to say that we need to [00:22:00] build systems and supports are from the ground up that support young people, no matter what their needs are. Um, and so we look at our, you know, is there compliance?

Sarah: Do they have really great IEPs? Are they having the right kinds of meetings? Things that are traditionally special education-focused, but we also look at things that Kristen was talking about: Does every lesson have a clear learning outcome? Can every child understand the directions that they're being asked? Are teachers checking for understanding in ways that are additive to the learning and really not testing into a particular area of challenge for a kid because of their disability? Um, and we look at all of those things and THRIVE really sets the vision for what we expect from high quality programming. Um, and so we use THRIVE as we work with all of our school partners to say, let's all, let's get closer to that. [00:23:00] And let's think about how we do that. 

Olivia: Yeah, it's brilliant. And I, I so appreciate it's a community. effort. It's so collaborative and collective, and it's all centered on the child. And celebrating and lifting up, and it is, I appreciate also the background of the way IDEA has traditionally worked, and how this really is a fresh take. It's a fresh perspective that I know both of you believe in so strongly. 

Sarah: Yeah, I have one other thing to add, which is that. We really take a systems level approach, which I think differentiates thrive from other models. 

Olivia: I agree.

Sarah: Because we recognize that the systems that our schools are founded on were not designed for the students that we're talking about. Um, they are much more centered around that one-size-fits-all; let's let's teach to the traditional or average child and then retrofit. Or figure out [00:24:00] how we're going to meet the needs of everybody else. And so the reason that we have THRIVE and the reason that we center thrive and all of our work is to say, um, we actually need to start from the beginning and put the most diverse learner in the center. And that it is a systems solution to a systems problem. Um, and so it, it really highlights. Mindsets, knowledge and practices that we as a school community can can implement together. 

Olivia: That's so well said. Uh, and then Kristen, I continue to think of districts that are just getting by, by focusing heavily on the compliance metrics. So, another skill set of yours comes down to, like, really, how do you know something's effective? How do you know if a program is showing the results that we want to see and that children are thriving? I love even the word thrive. I've moved in my [00:25:00] language away from struggling to striving, so I think that idea of, like, we're reaching toward all children thriving and growing and blossoming as humans. Kristen, you know, what's the data that shows us that; way beyond compliance metrics? 

Kristen: So, there's a couple of things that come to mind there. I think special education to start, right? I had gone to a Wrightslaw training again, years ago, and the way that the facilitator explained the importance of evaluation testing, um, coupled with actually - no correction - it wasn't Wrightslaw, it was a school psychologist in Philadelphia, and I'm not going to call her name out, but she's brilliant. She explained to me the role of evaluative testing. And she said, every three years, we have an opportunity to give kids an apples-to [00:26:00]-apples assessment and it's going to tell us if what we've put in place for them every year between those two points is actually doing what we need it to do.

Kristen: She said, so our job in the annual reviews is to say, how are they doing with the services and supports that we've put in place against the, what they need to do in school? Right? Because when we think about IDEA, I always say it this way: there's two purposes of special education: to remove the barriers presented by my disability and give me access to grade level content.

Kristen: What I see in practice is, folks often kind of, they kind of lose that second part and the remove the barriers become synonymous with give me intervention to close my gaps. Which can be a part of it, but we also have to be paying attention to one, if there are gaps that I need to close, because that's how my disability is showing up, look at my growth data, [00:27:00] look at how I'm actually moving and making progress and get a bit more granular than, oh, I moved from a second grade level to a third grade level.

Kristen: What did I do? Did I strengthen my ability to do certain blends? Did I strengthen how I navigate um, certain challenges and multisyllabic words? Am I doing better at navigating like r-control words? I'm riffing right? But get really granular. And I think what can be intimidating for teachers is they're like one that just sounds like a whole lot of work.

Kristen: And two, I might not always have the information that I really think I need. Sstart with what you have start with what you have and ask more questions. It may take time on the front end, but what it allows you to do is be more precise. So, versus saying, I have a kid on a 2nd grade level, and I have to move them to a 3rd grade level because they're in 7th grade.

Kristen: That can mean a ton of things, right? Take a [00:28:00] look at what you do know. What are the trends you see in their work? There are different protocols that we use with partners around data analysis that I, I think people can replicate easily. The other piece - that I'm saying this because I'm a high school teacher too, is we have to think about how am I doing in relation to grade level expectations? So I can have a disability that manifests as me being grade levels behind, but that doesn't mean that accessing grade level content should be off the table for me.

Kristen: Right? We talk about this through the notion of like, removing barriers. If I have a disability that manifests in reading, every task in grade level content isn't necessarily assessing my ability to read grade level content. So if that's the barrier, how do you address that, but then still give me access to the thinking tasks? And so asking teachers, I'm like, I'm being very specific and going in and out, but asking teachers to one start with what you have [00:29:00] asked very clear questions. So the protocol we use is, um: What? So what? Now what? Very clearly - What is this? What is this data telling you flat out? Don't make predictions. Don't infer.

Kristen: You're just saying flat out what is the data showing you? It is showing me that they answered three questions about this wrong. It is showing me that they struggled to do this, uh, math problem. Cool. So, what? What does that mean for them? Well, that means that they want that they're going to struggle when it comes to doing this concept, or that means that they are not identifying the appropriate cognitive strategy.

Kristen: Now what? Because that's so what is helping me be even more precise with my now what planning because now what is so what do you do about it, but it's there's ways to do it And I'm saying this more broadly, in terms of like, not calling out specific, like, [00:30:00] use this assessment or use this assessment because we use a number of them, but it's the practice that you use with the information that's in front of you that helps you really strengthen your precision and practice, if that makes sense, 

Olivia: It does and I continue to go back. I recently interviewed Juliana Tapper and she has a book that recently came out. It's (Teaching) 6-12 Math Interventions for students and there was a moment in the book. I got a lump in my throat. I got really overwhelmed because she was talking about is a math interventionist. She really had not expected ever to expose her 6th through 12th grade students to on grade level content until she had an administrator come into a building and say, no, you will expose students to grade level content and. She didn't know how she was going to do it, but there was a moment when she gave her group of kids the materials that all other [00:31:00] students were using, and she said they're, they were shocked, like, we're, we're going to use the same book, and she was like, yeah, they were like, oh, and they sat up a little bit straighter.

Olivia: The reason I'm saying this, I, I think so much - teachers want to do right by kids. Most teachers that I work with wake up every morning of like, get it…I am going to hang out with kids today and life could not be better because that's what we do. And I think sometimes we don't check our biases and we need to just know, what are our expectations for students that have labels attributed to them? And we need to shake that off and say our kids can do magical things if we set the bar for them. And what Juliana said, very similar to what you were just saying, Kristen, you've got to know. [00:32:00] You have to be so precise at what they can do, so you know how to build backwards or forwards from that, scaffolding-wise.

Olivia: If this is the grade level, what moments do they need with me, steps on a ladder, to get to that standard? So I just, if sometimes kids that don't believe in themselves yet, they may have low self-efficacy - we need to believe in them first and then you'll see them rise. So, or I see them thrive, I should say. So I just, I think that's big. 

Kristen: Yeah. I would offer there's one, a refrain I use all the time: kids will meet whatever bar you set for them, low or high. Right? And I love how you set it around like checking our own biases because I, I don't. More often than not, it's like, I don't think this is a malicious intent.

Olivia: No, it's not. 

Kristen: Right? But I have a very dear friend of mine who she says, she's like, malicious intent [00:33:00] is one piece of it. But sometimes it's like, we actually need to be more intentional, right? So you can, you can, you don't necessarily have to have malicious intent, but how intentional are you around understanding and the exposure?

Kristen: And the other piece that comes up is, and this is a note to administrators and leaders, we have to be ready, willing, and able to support teachers because that intentionality and that curiosity and all of those things can also surface areas of growth and that can be really intimidating as a teacher to feel like, well, wait, wait a second, maybe they can, but I don't really know.

Kristen: And I think you said the, the woman you're speaking to said, like, I actually don't know how to do that. That's intimidating. It's my job to right - it's like my job to know. And it's a leader's job. It's our jobs as leaders to ensure that we have your back. And we are giving you the resources that you need in order to build that [00:34:00] skill because our kids need and they can do it.

Kristen: I've seen it. I've seen kids come alive. Um, yeah, when you put a text in front of them that they're just like, wait a second, we get to read that too? Yeah, they do. I love how you said that they they're backs get straighter, because it does they do like it all it shows. 

Olivia: It does. And Sarah, I know what I've really just loved of our conversations you feed my soul with your research. Every post you put on LinkedIn, I jump in and I read because I know you read it and you, you are a curious human like I am. You ask lots and lots of questions. So I think moving forward in 2025 with the state of the world right now. What are your hopes? Let's, let's wrap our conversation.

Olivia: And Kristen, um, start thinking about this too. Like, what are your hopes? What emerging [00:35:00] trends are you seeing? Where do you see The Ability Challenge? Um, not just in 2025, but moving forward. Sarah, what are your thoughts? 

Sarah: Oh, well, I mean, I think my hope is that every child can go to a school that it, we, you know, we say we want the schools, all the schools that we work with, or all of the schools to be anti-ableist in that they are actively trying to break down those barriers, um, and seek to support every child that walks through their door.

Sarah: Um, we actually set a big goal around it. So we, we want to work or help to work with schools that are going to support a million more students with disabilities by 2045, um, you know, we'll we're going to get there. Um, but I think when we really think about, like, what it comes down to from a human perspective, [00:36:00] what we're talking about here is that that people start from a place of presuming competence.

Sarah: Um, and that, you know, from The Ability Challenge’s perspective, we are working with folks to be able to support them in those mindsets with knowledge and support with practices on how to how to get there. But that that that is the really the starting place of, I believe I come to come to this job every day, really believing that everybody can do it.

Sarah: How am I as the adult going to help them get there? Um, you know, I think that's, that's broader than The Ability Challenge. That's hopefully where we can get, um, as, as an, as a sector, um, and, um, especially given our world today, you know, I think we have to really double-down on young people because they're going to be the ones that are going to be answering all the questions that we can't answer.

Olivia: Yeah, I think [00:37:00] that there's so much, I still have so much hope with our youth because they are listening and they are watching and they know they do not like what they're seeing in many grown ups these days. So, Kristen, with that said, what trends are you seeing that are on your radar for special education?

Kristen: And this really calls back to my earlier response in those areas that we see pretty consistently. So one; continuing to see this need to build teacher knowledge and skill around what it means to design and implement effective specialized instruction. That's our entry point to the conversation around Tier 1, because specialized instruction for students with disabilities is a Tier 1 thing. 

Olivia: Yes. Yes. 

Kristen: How do you ensure I have access? And so, um, continuing our work as an organization and partnering with schools and districts on not only the professional learning of it all, but the coaching and that's coaching for school leaders. That's coaching for district leaders [00:38:00] around understanding what inclusive instructional strategies look like in practice and also helping see, like, the similarities to like, you're already looking for these things. Let's talk about why they're so uniquely important for your students with disabilities. Also, in terms of the behavior trend that I named earlier, we still hear that.

Kristen: And so, as an organization, we've done a lot of work around building professional learning and resources for folks to build their knowledge and skill and understanding the actual functions of behavior. We actually have some very cool, uh, resources, some constants of behavior cards that were created that give folks just some quick tools that they can use.

Kristen: Like, here's some example scenarios and some ways in which you can respond to the last thing we have an exciting presentation coming up in a few months where we'll actually be able to share. Just that professional learning those resources and some of the results that we've seen from folks on understanding the function of behavior and how [00:39:00] to really effectively meet the needs of your kids.

Kristen: And the last thing I'll say is around staffing. Uh, we actually recently did a panel in the fall, I think it was on on staffing shortages and so collaborating with partners to reimagine how you approach staffing. So building some knowledge and skill as well as some resources for how you plan for student rostering and scheduling with student needs at the center and then how you bring your staff along and understand how you can get creative with staff allocation. So, those are definitely three areas that are in the forefront of our minds just as we look in the next chapter. 

Olivia: Well, I'm excited because that sounds like three more podcast episodes coming our way that we, you know, I think it's important that my listeners get to know you as an organization of what you believe. And so this was kind of our intro episode, I'll call it. Um, and then I adore our thought partnership. I know [00:40:00] we check in monthly just to say, how are you doing? Here's some resources to keep you going. And, and so I look forward to continuing and then truly coming back, because I know that people that hear this conversation will want to know so much more about the work you're doing, and to also have the gift of you working with their school district.

Olivia: So I will make sure to put all of your contact details in the show notes as well, but I can't thank you both enough because your work on behalf of children is seamless. It's so thoughtful and Kristen, I'm going to borrow your word, it's so precise and that's what we need to be. That's what our kids deserve. So thank you both of you. 

Kristen: Thank you. 

Sarah: Thank you for having us. Thank you for doing this amazing podcast.

Kristen: Yeah. 

Olivia: Well, I can't wait for it to be out in the world next month. It's going to be amazing. Take care. 

Sarah: Bye. 

Kristen: Bye. 

Olivia: Schoolutions: Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. [00:41:00] Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guests, Sarah Sandelius and Kristen Briggs, for sharing how The Ability Challenge supports organizations in designing intentional support systems for effective special education.

Olivia: Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionpodcast@gmail.com. Let me know what resonated most with you for my conversation with Sarah and Kristen. Tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. Stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday, where I'll reflect and share connections to what I learned from the guests that week. See you then.