They Gave Schools An Impossible Choice: What You Need to Know with Erica Meltzer of Chalkbeat

In this powerful interview, Erica Meltzer from Chalkbeat discusses the Trump administration's controversial efforts to reinterpret Title VI of the Civil Rights Act and eliminate DEI programs in schools. 

Learn how recent legal injunctions have temporarily blocked these attempts, why Title I funding for high-poverty schools hangs in the balance, and what this means for students and educators across America. 

Essential viewing for parents, teachers, administrators, and anyone concerned about educational equity.

💫Check out these resources from Erica here:

➡️States sue Trump Education Department to defend school diversity efforts (4/25/25)

➡️Trump gave states 10 days to sign an anti-DEI policy. NY Education Department is refusing (4/4/25)

➡️Indiana plans to comply with Trump push to ban DEI from schools (4/9/25)

⭐And then two ways that are showing up at the school district and classroom level in IN:

➡️Lawmakers end racial and ethnic studies course mandate, make more education changes as session ends (4/25/25)

➡️Wayne Township schools ends diverse-business policy following Trump guidance (4/22/25)

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction: Title VI and Civil Rights in Education

02:00 Welcome and Introduction of Erica Meltzer

03:00 Recent Developments with the Trump Education Department

04:00 Research on Diversity in Education and Student Outcomes

05:00 Background on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act

07:00 The Dear Colleague Letter and Legal Challenges

09:00 Recent Court Injunctions and Temporary Holds

10:00 Practical Impacts on Schools and Title I Funding

12:00 How Institutions Are Responding Across the Spectrum

14:00 Complexities for Districts in Red and Blue States

17:00 Legal Lines: What's Allowed and What's Potentially Problematic

20:00 Self-Censorship and Unclear Guidance for Educators

23:00 Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

#Chalkbeat #EducationPolicy #TitleVI #DEIinSchools #FederalFunding #EducationEquity #CivilRightsAct #SchoolFunding #EducationJustice #SchoolCompliance #TeacherSupport #TitleIFunding #EducationLaw #StudentOutcomes

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Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Hi there. I'm so glad you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Erica Meltzer, a national reporter for Chalkbeat. Through my conversation with Erica, you'll learn why Title VI of the Civil Rights Act has become a political battleground as the Trump administration attempts to reinterpret its meaning to eliminate diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives in schools.

Olivia: You'll learn about how recent legal injunctions have temporarily halted the Trump administration's attempt to force schools to sign compliance agreements. How school districts across the political spectrum are struggling to navigate unclear guidance about what constitutes discrimination and about research that shows that diversity initiatives like having black teachers in classrooms significantly improves outcomes for black students.

Olivia: Stay with us. I'm so happy to have you join our conversation. This is Schoolutions Coaching and Teaching Strategies, [00:01:00] the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive.

Olivia: I am Olivia Wahl, and I am happy to welcome Erica Meltzer to the podcast today. Let me tell you a little bit about Erica. Erica Meltzer is a national editor at Chalkbeat, where she covers education, policy, and politics. Erica was a founding editor of the local news site, Denverite, and before that she covered everything from housing and energy policy to crime in courts for newspapers in three states.

Olivia: Erica also served in the Peace Corps in Paraguay. Erica, I am thrilled to have you on the podcast. I have followed your writing for a long time and I'm really honored to have established this partnership with Chalkbeat, with your voice as a writer [00:02:00] and journalist, as well as Kalyn Belsha. And so we've decided to tag team and, and just have both of you illuminate updates around policy shifts, um, and what's happening with the Department of Education in the states. So thank you for being here.

Erica: I'm really happy to be here and, uh, to talk about these important issues. 

Olivia: Yeah, they sure are important and they're ever changing. And so we were just talking about it almost feels like that, um, uncertainty with COVID days of you never know what's going to be new around the corner.

Olivia: So we are actually recording this conversation on Friday, the 25th at the last hour, uh, before it will release on Monday, which is an unusually quick turnaround, but we want to have the most current information for listeners when this releases on Monday. So I, I want to start off, um, you had a piece just released yesterday.

Olivia: Um, and that article is entitled Trump Education Department Efforts to [00:03:00] Get DEI Out of Schools Hit Roadblock. That's what you'll lean on heavily today for our conversation, but I think it's important for listeners to also have some background context. What I'd love for us to start out with is around, um, research you've been leaning on to highlight and just as kind of a grounding force for yourself. And then if you could offer some background around Title VI. 

Erica: Absolutely. I was thinking about this research question specifically in light of, of Title VI and this conversation around diversity. And there's a whole body of research about the impact of having black teachers in the classroom, especially on the outcomes of black students.

Erica: And having, having even one black educator in elementary school increases the chances that a black student will graduate from high school and enroll in college. And I think when we're talking about diversity and equity and inclusion and [00:04:00] DEI, there's all these are, these are buzzwords that I think for some people have positive connotations and for other people have negative connotations or people might, um, think of an example they've encountered where they feel like something goes, um, too far or something that they were not comfortable with.

Erica: But I think it's important to kind of, when we're talking about the value of diversity in schools, we're not just talking about. Sort of quotas or check boxes, but we are talking about things that have meaningful, make a meaningful difference in outcomes for students. And I think it's important to ground the conversation in that.

Olivia: Yeah, beautifully said. And can you offer some background around Title VI as well? 

Erica: Yeah. So Title VI, I mean, this is Title VI, is Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. This goes back to the 1960s and it says that, um, entities such as state governments and school districts that receive federal funds have to abide by non-discrimination requirements and you can't discriminate on the basis of race, on the basis of shared ancestry.

Erica: And, [00:05:00] um, and if you do, you are not eligible for federal funds. And that has had, um, the original interpretation there was around, um, integrating schools and there was obviously an enormous amount of resistance to integrating schools in the aftermath of the Brown decision. This was a fight that took place over many decades.

Erica: We saw certain states, um, try to set up alternative school systems to avoid integrating their schools, and Title VI was something that gave the federal government leverage to enforce civil rights in the states. Under this administration, we also see a different interpretation of Title VI or a different emphasis in Title VI than we have had historically.

Erica: And they're saying we're gonna remove funding from states that don't go along with our interpretation. But I do think it's important to remember that this has always been how the federal government has exerted power. This is why the drinking age is, is 21 in every state because the federal government said, [00:06:00] we're gonna withhold federal transportation funds if you don't raise the drinking age.

Erica: What is unusual is that typically it's not seen as a real threat. I think it's basically been since the sixties that it has not been a real threat. It basically doesn't happen because the consequences are so significant and now we have an administration that seems, um, perhaps more willing to go there. But we'll see if they're legally able to go there. 

Olivia: After reading your piece that came out yesterday hot off the press, um, there are some legal challenges and so something that we were texting back and forth early in the week is that yesterday, April 24th was a deadline of sorts. And so let's speak to that and then what has evolved since.

Erica: Yeah, I think it would be probably, we should start with this Dear Colleague letter that came out in February and, um, a Dear Colleague letter is how the, how the Education Department tells school leaders, this is how we intend to interpret and [00:07:00] enforce the law. And this Dear Colleague letter said that a lot of practices that have been common under this umbrella of DEI could actually be illegal discrimination.

Erica: And the administration was leaning on the students for fair admissions versus Harvard Supreme Court decision. This barred the use of race in college admissions. It, it didn't say anything about K-12, but um, the administration was taking that legal interpretation and extending it to a lot of, um different circumstances that may, that may show up in a K-12 school. So this letter came out. It pro, it prompted a lot of confusion and a lot of fear of what exactly is it that they're asking us to do? Am I gonna have to stop doing things that I think are good for students? And so, as with many of the Trump administration actions, we saw a whole series of lawsuits.

Erica: Um, the AFT brought a lawsuit, the American Federation for Teachers brought a lawsuit in Maryland representing their members. The, uh, National [00:08:00] Education Association brought a lawsuit in New Hampshire representing their members. The NAACP brought a lawsuit, um, representing, um, parents and students of color.

Erica: And so that was a lawsuit just against the Dear Colleague letter, the administration who followed that up with a demand that states sign a document saying, we are in compliance with Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, and we are in compliance with your interpretation based on students for fair admissions.

Erica: And that was like, that was like the, the step too far because states and school districts all the time in exchange for getting federal money certify, we are in compliance with, with Title VI. With Title VI, but this kind of long, there was sort of this amendment with sort of a long explanation of the administration's legal interpretation.

Erica: This is an interpretation that is like very, it's very much contested experts - many legal experts think they're straight up wrong. Whether they are, are or are not, I think will [00:09:00] be sort of tested in the courts over the next however many years. But states were saying, particularly Democratic led states, we're saying, we just don't think you're correct on the law and we're not gonna agree to this.

Erica: So in those lawsuits against the Dear Colleague letter, now there was this like. Really firm deadline. If, if we, if you don't sign by this date, work withholding all of your federal funding, including your Title one funding, which is obviously immensely important to school. Uh, so now, so we're down to the wire on Thursday, and they're, and the judges in each of these lawsuits issued a series of injunctions.

Erica: Um, each one was technically different and they found on different grounds. We don't have to go all the way into the weeds, but that the sort of collective impact is that all of this is on hold, pending three different lawsuits that could go three different ways. 

Olivia: And so with that said, you just mentioned the funding and especially the Title I funding. So what are some practical impacts on [00:10:00] schools that this could have, depending on what happens after it's on hold? 

Erica: So, uh, Title I funding, um, flows to high poverty schools and they use it for all sorts of things. They might use it to hire additional teachers to keep their class sizes small. They might use it to support, um, you know, reading or math intervention positions. They might use it to hire social workers. Um, where I live in Colorado, the state used to not fund kindergarten. Um, but a lot of school districts would use their title funds to make, um, kindergarten free. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Erica: Um, so there's a lot of ways that, um, the schools use this money to build those wraparound supports around high needs students because I think we know that, um, students who grew up in poverty are coming into school. They maybe, uh, have been exposed to trauma, housing instability. A lot of things that disrupt their learning. They might not have had the same preschool opportunities, and so schools are using those title funds to sort of wrap around those students and support them.

Olivia: Yeah, [00:11:00] protect them. I'm gonna use the word protect because I think a lot of this fear, um, mongering that's happening is we're, we're seeing people caving, which is fascinating to me because I thought the system was so much stronger than what we are seeing it crumble to, um, especially at that higher institutions, um, higher education institutions. So I'd love for you to also illuminate like what's the spectrum of institutional responses? 

Erica: Columbia, very quickly, um, acceded to a lot of demands that I think a year ago people would not have imagined that an elite university would agree to essentially render one of their departments under the control of an outside entity. But then Harvard, um, based with similar demands just said, no, we're not gonna do it. Harvard's one of the richest institutions probably in the world, they have a massive endowment. [00:12:00] If, if anyone's gonna stand up, it probably could be Harvard, but what's been really interesting is you've seen a lot of other universities, once Harvard took that position, a lot of other universities also said, this is too far. We need to maintain our independence. We do not believe these demands are legal and, and we're gonna hold the line and have this fight. 

Olivia: Money seems to be such a factor, um, and the way that the fear is being held so tightly, um, and we we're scared. The stakes are so high. So let's go there because, you know, what are the stakes for the institutions as well as specific impacts it could have?

Erica: I mean, so the stakes are billions of dollars, but the stakes are also your independence to run your institution the way that, that you see fit. And the administration has tried, I, I believe, to cast this in a very sort of black and white way. Like we, we are, [00:13:00] we're here fighting antisemitism or fighting illegal discrimination, but what, what is the substance of what we're talking about here?

Erica: So, school districts, even though federal money overall is not an enormous percentage of funding for school districts, I think it would be very hard to replace that money, especially I think, uh, we have a lot of economic uncertainty if we're, if we do go into another recession, we typically see education budgets cut at the local level.

Erica: Um. And so I mentioned an example out of Iowa in the article yesterday. Um, this is a, a district that serves a lot of students of color. For years and years, they've participated in this African, African American read in, and this is not a reading event only for black students. It is a, it is an event to read black authors and the, and the school district pulled their students out and, and they were just scared. They said, we can't afford to lose our federal funding, and we just don't know where the line is. 

Olivia: Yeah. And I also [00:14:00] want to just point out that the idea of complexities and challenges that districts are facing, that's such a perfect example. Um, and then let's circle back because you are speaking to leaders, to superintendents in both red leaning and blue leaning states.

Olivia: And you mentioned something earlier that I find fascinating. Every state for a very long time has had to sign off that they are complying with Title VI. That is not something new. It is this shift in interpretation that is being the push. And so what are conversations you're having on both sides in that bipartisan lens around compliance and the complexities that follow?

Erica: So I think in, um, so for example. So, so Indiana is in our, our Chalkbeat network, and this is a, a [00:15:00] red state that I has gotten more conservative in recent years. There the governor had his own anti-DEI executive order, and, and he saw this as just sort of one more, you know, one more step. Of course we're gonna comply with this 'cause we, we, I think that we've had things in our schools that we should not have had in our schools, that, that did cross the line into, um, giving too much preference to one group instead of, instead of creating a safe school environment for everyone. Now we just had a story, uh, from last night that, um, they have a, they had a state law that required school districts to offer electives in ethnic studies and different, um, types of history.

Erica: And apparently the, what the law Republican lawmaker said is that the Federal Department of Education is telling the state you have to get rid of that law. This is to offer an elective. At the same time that the federal government's own guidance said. There's no [00:16:00] problem teaching African American history or Asian American history.

Erica: Like there's the, like if you're just talking about history, of course that's not discriminatory. That's sort of on like a red state side where the state government is intending to comply and you see like what is, what actually does it mean to comply? And then in, in blue states or in states that I think are just maybe more skeptical of this requirement, they just feel like the law is on their side.

Erica: And I think something that's important to say, we, we have not solved the problem of, uh, anti-black racism or anti-Latino racism. Like I, I think that these orders are as if, as if we are mostly in a colorblind society, except for now, white students are being disadvantaged because maybe they aren't eligible for this scholarship.

Erica: And, and perhaps it is now true, perhaps under the Supreme Court decision, we actually can't have scholarships that [00:17:00] are race specific like that. That could be, but it's not like we've solved the problem that the Civil Rights Act was originally passed to address. And so I think a big concern that a lot of school leaders have is I've been trying to do things to make my school system fairer, better serve students of color, um, produce better outcomes for all kids. Am I being told I have to stop doing those things? And I think that that's like a really big concern that a lot of school leaders have. 

Olivia: You know, where is that line between legality and not? Can you offer some examples of what is coming up in your reporting? 

Erica: So some of the examples that we've seen in recent years and that and that many legal experts agree are in fact, an implication of this Supreme Court decision is that you cannot have programs that are exclusively for people of one race. So, for example, um, Los Angeles had a black student success plan [00:18:00] that was, uh, attempting to, uh, remediate a lot of longstanding problems in the district. This is actually under the Biden administration.

Erica: There was a conservative parent group that challenged it and they revised the plan so that it is more focused on students from low-income backgrounds. Um, a lot of, um, high schools and universities might have, um, affinity groups, uh, like a Future Black Engineers club or a, um, Latino culture club. Uh, these kinds of clubs are legal, but they probably under the law now, they cannot be exclusive to people from that group. 

Erica: And I think, and I think when these groups get closed, it's not necessarily out of a desire to, um, you know, to be racist or discriminatory. It might be because, um, people who are in the club have had certain experiences with people who came in with not the right intentions or were disrupting the sort of the culture of that group.

Erica: Um, but I think going forward [00:19:00] solutions might look like having sort of a code of conduct or things that people, um, sort of agree to abide by for being a member of that group instead of, um, instead of saying this group is only for Black students, or This group is only for Asian American students, when we're talking about things that are sponsored by schools or sponsored by universities, um we can't actually have things that are exclusive to one race. It's, it's really hard to sort of draw a legal line that would make that Okay. And I think we do - and I think there have been examples like that. And those might be some of the things that, um, that the administration is trying to address.

Olivia: Alright. Well, and I think it, it is important to have that perspective. And also with that said that there is a reason that groups have come to want to be recognized with these affinity groups. So, um, if we go back to DEI, that idea of inclusion and helping everyone [00:20:00] feel seen and heard, I think that's, that's the intent of a lot of that work. So thanks for that example. It's fascinating to me to also think about, um that need for crystal clear guidance and we cannot continue to move forward if there's this just complete, um, abyss of not understanding what, what is being asked of us. So what are you seeing legally moving forward, or with guidance coming down the pike, even like next week?

Olivia: What, what do you predict may happen? 

Erica: Yeah, I think, um, I think it's something like two thirds of teachers report self-censoring what they say in the classroom around potentially contentious issues. And one of the reasons they cite is that if a parent, they're scared of parents and they're not sure that their administration would back them up if they got a complaint, even if it was just one or two parents.

Erica: And I think principals in turn are not sure that their administration would back them up. And so I [00:21:00] do think we see this sort of cascade. So in terms of the guidance, um. When the Dear Colleague Letter first came out, um, a lot of people worried about the most extreme potential interpretations. The administration came out with this, um, FAQ, this guidance, and, and they tried to say, everyone's being ridiculous.

Erica: We're just saying don't discriminate. Of course, you can teach history. This is easy for me to say 'cause I'm not a classroom teacher. I hope that classroom teachers and principals and district administration do take them at their word. I, I, I hope that we do continue to teach, teach accurate American history. But you know, if you talk about, for example, something like asking students to reflect on how their own, um, how their racial, how their racial or ethnic background might have influenced their perspectives under the guidance that exists, I think that, that's potentially problematic. Or asking people to think about concepts like structural racism or, um, implicit bias or, [00:22:00] um, or, um, privilege.

Erica: I think talking about those sorts of things could potentially run afoul of, of how this administration is, is thinking about this issue. And I think the guidance that has come out to date has been very unclear. I  honestly would be surprised if the administration further clarifies, because I don't think they wanna go and give these exact examples of like this line versus that line.

Erica: There, there is a legitimate reason for that, which is that any civil rights investigation is fact-specific. Like, um, that's, that's a legitimate thing to say. Um, but I also think every American, every educator, every principal, they might draw their own line somewhere different. And I think they want to, I don't think they wanna tell people exactly where the line is, because I think their, their line is, is actually like pretty far in one direction.

Erica: [00:23:00] But if they articulated that, it might be easier for people to have to debate,a debate on the merits, right? And, but as if you leave this kind of uncertainty, there's a lot of pressure. To sort of comply and advance and get yourself on the what you think and imagine is the right side.

Olivia: Yeah. Well, I, I can't thank you enough for your reporting for your voice and the way that you gather multiple perspectives, multiple voices. Kalyn does the exact same thing. It's so helpful for me as a coach, as an educator, to be able to say, okay, this is where people are landing on this, this issue. And you also offer such voluminous research and links embedded within your stories that that's also grounding.

Olivia: Um. I look forward to our next update. And again, this will be coming out very soon. We're turning it around quickly. And, um, just thank you for being a voice for educators and [00:24:00] most importantly for children, all children, so that they feel seen and heard in this world of, um, just trying to learn and, and grow, um, as good humans.

Olivia: So thank you so much Erica. 

Erica: Thank you for having me. 

Olivia: Yeah, take care. Schoolutions Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me. Olivia Wall. Thank you to my older son Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Scions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Erica Meltzer, for sharing an update about the status of Title VI in the Department of Education. Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Let me know what resonated most from my conversation with Erica.

Olivia: And tune in every Monday for the best research, back coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better [00:25:00] the lives of the children in your care. Stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday where I'll reflect and share connections to what I learned from the guest that week. See you then.