Rich Schools vs. Poor Schools: What is a PTA Equity Fund? with Tom Hayden

In this eye-opening episode, I speak with Tom Hayden, an adjunct professor at Northwestern University School of Journalism, about the controversial PTA Equity Project (PEP) in Evanston, Illinois. 

We dive deep into how this well-intentioned initiative pooled $650,000 from wealthy school PTAs to redistribute resources across the district, but is now burning through $50,000 annually without sustainable fundraising. 

Tom reveals the unexpected consequences: conflicts of interest with board members, disincentivized fundraisers, and "black market PTAs." 

Discover what really happens when equity initiatives meet complex community dynamics and learn valuable lessons about effective educational funding that balances equity with sustainability. 

A must-watch for caregivers, educators, and anyone concerned about educational equity and school funding disparities.

Episode Mentions:

• PTA Equity Project
• Evanston/Skokie - School District 65
• Evanston Community Foundation (ECF)

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to the PTA Equity Project 
02:00 - Evanston's Educational Landscape & Context 
05:30 - How the PEP Fund Was Created During COVID 
10:15 - The Pooled Funding Model: $650,000 Collected 
14:00 - Galas, Fundraising, and Class Divisions 
17:30 - The "Black Market PTAs" Problem 
20:00 - School Board Conflicts of Interest 
23:45 - Capital Improvements: Who Should Pay? 
27:15 - Black Student Achievement & Political Solutions 
31:00 - Finding Balance in Polarized Conversations 
34:20 - Universities' Responsibility in Education Funding 
38:00 - Conclusion: Community-Wide Solutions

#EducationalEquity #SchoolFunding #PTAEquityProject #EducationReform #SchoolBoardPolitics #AchievementGap #EducationalJustice #CommunityCollaboration #EvanstonSchools #RacialEquity #EducationPolicy #SchoolResources #FundraisingEthics #ParentInvolvement #EducationalDisparity

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Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Hi there. I'm so glad you're here. Here's what you'll gain by listening to the very last second of this conversation with Tom Hayden, an adjunct professor at Northwestern University School of Journalism. Through my conversation with Tom, you'll learn how the PTA Equity Project or PEP in Evanston, Illinois illustrates how well-intentioned equity initiatives can create complex challenges when balancing centralized funding with school autonomy.

Olivia: It requires community-wide collaboration rather than polarized approaches. You'll leave the conversation understanding how the PEP fund pooled money from wealthier school PTAs to redistribute resources more equitably across the district. Why board member involvement in PEP created potential conflicts of interest and what effective educational equity requires.

Olivia: Stay with us. I'm so happy to have you join our conversation. This is Schoolutions Coaching and [00:01:00] Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that offers educators and caregivers strategies to try right away and ensure every student receives the inspiration and support they need to thrive.

Olivia: I am Olivia Wahl, and I am happy to welcome Tom Hayden as a guest on the podcast today. Let me tell you a little bit about Tom. Tom Hayden is a writer, journalist, business owner, and parent to an awesome 9-year-old. He lives in Evanston, Illinois and runs foisgras.com, a blog devoted to local governance and transparency.

Olivia: He's currently on hiatus from the blog while he's adjuncting at Northwestern University School of Journalism. Tom, I reached out to you - I was lucky to find you actually. Um, I live in a city with eight elementary schools and there was a parent communication blog around the PTA Equity Project in Evanston.

Olivia: And so I started to do some [00:02:00] research on that and went to their website. I think it's important listeners know what the PTA Equity Project's mission and vision is, and I reached out to them to be guests on the podcast, but I never heard back. This was a few months ago. And truly with the intent, I, I wanted to learn about it because I think it'd be cool, um, from their website it sounds dreamy, um, equity for all kids, all buildings..

Olivia: And then I ended up finding your blog as a result of just continuing to research and trying to better understand what happened with this project. And then I got lucky because you agreed to come on so. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna read the mission and the vision from their website to just set some context for listeners, and then we'll jump right in. Sound good? 

Tom: Yeah. Sounds good to me. 

Olivia: All right, here we go. This is their mission from the PTA Equity Projects website. “The PTA equity project advances equity by advising district 65 PTAs and supporting equitable access to educational [00:03:00] enrichment and community building opportunities for all district 65 students.”

Olivia: That sounds great. And then the vision, “Our district one, district one fund, one community equitably meeting the needs of all students across our 18 district 65 schools.”

Olivia: That sounds great too. And then they explain little narrative of how “PEP does this by pulling PTA funds and equitably distributing them to all schools, ensuring that each school, each PTA has funds that they need to provide opportunity for the students. Additionally, the PEP committee made up of caretakers and teachers work together to create and share equity toolkits that assist PTAs to ensure equitable outcomes at each school.”

Olivia: I wanna also disclaim, you are not part of the, you're not on the PTA, 

Tom: Correct. I'm not. 

Olivia: And you're also not associated with the PEP fund. I think your perspective as a [00:04:00] caretaker as well as a district parent and journalist will be fascinating. So let's jump in. 

Tom: Yeah. I'm totally, totally from the outside here. 

Olivia: Yeah, I think that's really helpful actually as an outsider myself and trying to get a better understanding. So I asked you to have a nugget of research or research you lean on to kick us off. So will you start with that? 

Tom: Yeah. So, uh, can I give a little bit of, it might be helpful to have a little bit of additional background in Evanston. 

Olivia: Yeah, please. 

Tom: So, uh, Evanston is a school district with about 6,000 students. It is K to eight. So Illinois has a two-tiered thing where it's K to eight students are in one district, and the 9 to 12 students are in the other district. Um, Evanston is also the home to Northwestern University, so we have a large university here. Um, and in terms of fundraising for things like, like what the PTA might do, you know the university brings in about 10 billion. The university has a $10 billion endowment. It's massive. And our high school is able to bring in, Evanston has one high school.

Tom: So [00:05:00] we have 17 buildings in the K to eight world, and then one high school campus, I think it might be the largest public high school in America. It's huge. It's like 5,000 students. Um, but the, the high school is very capable of fundraising because they can get alumni to come in and put their name on the gym or whatever.

Tom: And there's wealthy alumni. Um, like for instance, they just got a name put on a gym or on the, the performing arts center for $7 million. Um, and then on the, uh, K to eight district, it's always been difficult for them to fundraise, like in general. Um, and the, you know, Evanston's a small, small enough place where like the PEP fund is, I, I think a very good sort of testing ground.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, I, you know, I wasn't involved in any of this. I sort of came in, uh, later on. Uh, you know, we can talk about it a little bit, but I sort of came on later on when we started looking at some of the numbers and it was like, well, like this is a good idea. Does it like actually work? 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, but the answer's complicated. Um, and, and, and I wish I could give you a piece of research that's like, Hey, here's the golden arrow for how to solve this fund. Because it [00:06:00] in general a fundraising problem more than anything. Um, and, and I don't actually have a good answer. Um, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening and I think there's experiments.

Tom: You know, I think I joke over my posts on like laboratory, you know, the labor states are the laboratories of democracy, right? It's like, it's actually your HOA board and your school board, right? And so, like, I, I think there's a lot of interesting learnings that can come out of the Evanston Schools. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: The idea had been bubbling around Evanston. Evanston, uh, has a long and complicated racial history. Uh, you know, Evanston has an, a part of town called the Fifth Ward, which is like the historically black neighborhood. Um, it's not really, Evanston is much more diverse now. Uh, but it, for a long time, for most of the 20th century, like, uh, black folks were redlined into, into the Fifth Ward,.

Tom: And so, uh, Evanston has a very complicated racial history. And on top of that, the like achievement gap, the performance gap between black students and white students in Evanston is massive. It's like some, in some cases, 50 or 60 percentage points when it comes to sort of reading at state, at grade level.

Tom: Uh, [00:07:00] so it's like there's, there's real, genuine, genuine things. So this idea had been kicking around for a long time, um, that, you know, maybe, maybe one way we can approach, uh, you, we have schools that are very wealthy in Evanston and we have schools that are, that are less wealthy. How can we sort of, uh, uh, help solve the achievement gap, right?

Tom: The achievement gap is sort of tied to that wealth in a way. And so, you know the folks that, that run the PEP fund now, they sort of started off doing it in 2017 and they had, uh, a small amount of funding from a local, like the Evanston Community Foundation, which is a large sort of equity based, uh, fundraising operation that fundraises for a lot of different causes around town.

Tom: And the ECF actually still runs the, the PTA, like they run the money for the, the PEP fund. Um, but they don't like manage. So they, they gave a small grant and they started running the PEP fund. I think it kind of ran out of money around Covid. Um, and then Covid happened. Um, and all of a sudden the PEP fund, uh, sort of provided an interesting, I [00:08:00] think it actually provided a lot of value, which is, uh, a lot of these schools had large piles of money basically, and the PTAs that they had fundraised and they weren't gonna do anything with it this year because of the closures.

Tom: And, uh, they were able to use some of that funds. I actually was never able to tell how much for things like, uh, to give principals basically like slush funds to help poor families. 

Olivia: Got it. Okay. 

Tom: So like if someone needed like a modem at home or something, it would be funded through the PEP fund money.

Olivia: Okay. 

Tom: Um, sort of a, a thing with the state couldn't necessarily fund the things, but the, the PTA fund did. Um, and so it's actually still going. I think it was a three-year program, but I, I actually don't know what the current state is. Uh, we will talk about it. The state gets a little nebulous, uh, because there was a lot, it presented a lot of issues for PTAs to be able to do PTA things

Olivia: What they need to do.

Olivia: Yes. 

Tom: Right. 

Olivia: Which is, that was fascinating to me in your research that that came out. Was there, I know you became interested in it, what, was there an event or a specific disparity outside of what you just [00:09:00] described that caused you to wanna do the deep dive into reporting on this? 

Tom: When you do journalism as sort I do, I do with my blog. People reach out to you with stories. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: And anyone that's angry about anything, anytime, ever reaches out to you with a story. Okay. Um, and I had a lot of people reach out to me about the equity fund, about the PEP fund and, you know, some, they were mostly sort of people from, uh, the richer schools saying like, Hey, we had this fund, we had all these galas.

Tom: We built up this fund that might have been 70 or a hundred thousand dollars of a big rainy day fund for our PTA. And it was taken from us to build this PEP fund. So, you know what actually happened, if you read my posts, is uh, you know, they started doing this program during Covid where it was kind of like, let's use some of this money to help poor students get modems or books or whatever.

Tom: And then towards the end of Covid, uh, you know, all of the PTAs had a vote and they voted yes or no. Do we give this pile of reserves we have to the PEP fund to manage for, I think. I wanna say that it was originally the next three or five years. I don't remember what the contract or if it's [00:10:00] even a contract. It's kind of nebulous. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Uh, but there, there, there is some expiration on it, but it's still going as far as far as I know. 

Olivia: Okay. 

Tom: Um, I still get invites for the native plant sales. So like… 

Olivia: And we'll, and we'll talk about that 'cause it's fascinating to me. You know, let's talk their implementation versus their goals because we started off with their mission and their vision, but what ended up happening?

Tom: I mean, so what ended up happening is overall like, you know, I I, when I made in my post, I was like, an econ grad student needs to study this 'cause You know, sort of what happened is they, they took all these piles of money. So, you know, there's 18 schools, um, at, at 17 now, and at the time they were able to pool together, it was like 70 grand here, 60 grand here, 50 grand here. They went to the wealthy schools, got them to commit to providing their funds, and they all voted in favor of it. So it's like some, some people sort of came to me, they were like, our funds were raided and it sort of like, well, you voted, you know? 

Tom: It was put up for a vote and they voted to give all the funds to PEP [00:11:00] and, uh, they did. And so the PEP fund started off in 2020 with about $650,000, like a pretty sizable chunk of money. Um, and right now, that fund, if you look on, so the ECF, the company, the, the nonprofit that manages the funds, if you look at their balances, it's down to about 450,000 or something of that range.

Tom: So they're burning about 50 grand, 50 grand a year in terms of sort of like net loss. Um, and so it's not as a sustainable program. Um, but I do think the program's provided a lot of value, right? Like I've talked to parents, uh, across the district that are like, Hey, my kid's going on a field trip. Like, you never got to go on a field trip in the past. And like. Great. That's cool. Um, but like ideally you'd like this to continue on beyond when the money runs out. 

Olivia: Sustainable. Yeah. 

Tom: Yeah. And so the problem is, is in eight years or whenever that whenever that, that money runs out, it runs out and it's, that's it. Um, and they're just not able to keep up with the fundraising coming in versus the money going out. Um, I think there's a lot of reasons for [00:12:00] that. Uh, the big one maybe is, is incentives and fundraising. Um, you know, they sort of chased out, the people that reached out to me were the best fundraisers who were like, Hey, we had a gala to replace the track at the school. We raised 50 grand. We have no new track and no money is gone, and why should I be on the PTA or fundraise at all? Um, and so they kind of de disincentivized the very people they needed to be able to bring in the money. 

Olivia: So it's interesting, when I was teaching, um, in New York City, I went from teaching in San Diego at a very, very impoverished school. It was in City Heights, um, mostly immigrant population from Somalia coming – refugees - coming over to teaching in Murray Hill in New York City.

Olivia: And that school held a gala every year. And it was a big deal and teachers had to be part of the auction. To auction your yourself off, uh, time-wise, like to spend time with children or [00:13:00] families outside of the school. And the interesting thing I'll never forget, I got my roster first day or little bit before working.

Olivia: And I saw PH next to some students' names. And so I walked across the hall like an idiot, and asked the teacher and said, what does PH mean? She's like, penthouse. I was like, oh. Oh wow. Okay. And then there were projects on Second Ave of kids that didn't really feel comfy leaving their apartment, so their caregivers wouldn't let them leave.

Olivia: So I had this crazy disparity within the walls of a classroom of 30 kids that were living completely different lives. And that was fascinating. And then this gala comes up and I'm supposed to be part of the auction. We're supposed to each create these baskets. It's a big deal. And I was just so, I didn't wanna do it.

Olivia: I felt so just gross about being auctioned off. And then I wanted to hang out with my kids that were in the [00:14:00] projects on Second Ave, not a family that could buy me to have a play date with their kid outside of school. So I refused. I think I'm the only person. And I, I had to be called in and it was like, why won't you, you're like, you're a beloved teacher, why won't you do this?

Olivia: And I, I said exactly what I just said to you. And so I compromised, I was auctioned, but I also then offered free time outside of school because I was like, this is just so, it so felt, so warped. So. I get it. I get that the galas are huge fundraisers, but again, it just sets the divide up even more. 

Tom: That's sort of the challenge is I think, you know, with the PEP fund in its current form, I think, uh, the politics are very loaded. Um, and Evanston. So Evanston also for more background is, you know, in the last election, I think 91% of the town voted for Biden, like at the very blues. It's like the Bluest area. It's more blue than Chicago than the [00:15:00] city of Chicago. Um, and so, you know, the politics of inter democrat kind of fighting and progressive politics got really messy here.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Where you sort of have, uh, you know, wealthy people who are good at fundraising. And, uh, then there were a lot of, uh, you know, progressive types that are sort of like, Well, hey, like, we don't wanna reward this person. We shouldn't celebrate this, this white person for helping us. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: And like, and I don't mean us, I mean, everyone. Everyone in the PEP fund is for helping the PEP fund, but like, you know, there's gotta be some way we can meet in the middle here, because it's like the kids that benefit. Like, I don't care how, honestly, I don't care how the adults in the room here feel. Like it, I think it's really about like, are the kids getting, like, are the PTAs still able to do what they need to do?

Tom: Like for instance, when they first launched PEP, the big issue was that if you, this is a common PTA thing, a teacher gets sick or the school secretary gets sick and they wanna buy her a gift. That's like the, the, that's [00:16:00] everyone they pull together, throw a bunch of money and buy, buy the person a gift. And the PTA fund or the PEP fund showed up and said, you can't do that.

Tom: You actually all, all the money has to go through us first and then it gets reassigned based on, it was sort of this very collectivist approach and they sort of see why they were doing it that way to try to even it out. But like that prevented people from doing, you know, basics or PTA functions. And then the result was now people were forming like, this would be a great album. Me, like Black Market PTAs. 

Olivia: I loved it. 

Tom: Right. You're like, don't tell anyone we're raising money for this future, but we're gonna, 

Olivia: It's crazy. 

Tom: Only 15 bucks on Venmo. And so like people would do this and like, that doesn't work either. Like that's not a great scenario to be an either, where you're trying to hide the money from the PTA fund like, yeah. Uh, so like there's gotta be something in the middle, I think, you know, and one of the things I, I, I brought up was, uh, the children's hospitals are a good example, right? Like, I think, uh, you know, in a children's hospital, like every wing is named after some rich person.

Tom: And like, maybe we should or should not celebrate that rich person. I don't know. [00:17:00] Maybe it make them feel better about themselves. I don't know. Like, but the, the money goes towards the kids -like, it's ultimately at the end of the day research about like, research and kids and like. And so I think there's a trade off and I think on the progressive side, we may have gone a little bit too far on, like trying to dunk on rich people.

Tom: Ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, when it's the kids that benefit, you know, we look at here in Evanston, I can look at the high school, you know, some, some rich pharma guy just gave $7 million to the high school to build a new, uh, performing arts center. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Like, and it's named after him and like you look at this guy's record. Uh, I, I don't know. He is a rich pharma guy. He took, you know, like, I don't feel excited naming the auditorium after him. I don't think anybody does. But like, it's a new auditorium. It's good for the kids. Like we need to sort of be reasonable here. And you know, the other end of the spectrum is Northwestern, Northwestern will take money from anyone, any time, no matter what. And so, you know, we're sort of putting our, we're sort of hobbling our K to eight district for no good reason. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, and. That sucks. 

Olivia: It does. It does. And it's fascinating to [00:18:00] me and my younger son and I watch - we love Abbott Elementary, one of our favorites and I, when I was prepping for this conversation with you, I thought of when they were building the golf course. And they kept trying to feed the school, and the teachers were like, no, we can't take from them, but oh, we really, really need new Chromebooks for the kids. And it's this, you know - I'm interested to know, like, did you speak to teachers without naming anyone about their perspective and teachers at the wealthier schools versus the schools that really needed the money?

Tom: Uh, you know, I didn't talk to that many teachers about this. I think the teachers. To be, to be fair to the teachers, they're really busy. 

Olivia: Yeah, they are. 

Tom: I think, you know, District 65 isn't, has so many issues in terms of, uh, financial problems, um, that I think the teachers are just trying to keep their heads above water right now.

Olivia: Yeah, they are. 

Tom: Um, you know, they went out without a, they went without a contract here for almost a full year. Um, and they, they, they finally got their contract. It's been, uh, the teachers [00:19:00] here have a tough job and so I think they've been mostly away from this. I think that this has not been, they haven't had to touch this particular problem that much.

Olivia: So what's interesting though, is it, it was drama or I don't, you know, I'll say it was. Because the PEP committee was actually part of school boards, was part of the buildings. Could you speak to that nuance of it too? 

Tom: Well, this was a big challenge, I think a very serious conflict of interest, which is there were two board members. So the school board here is, uh, is elected, uh, and there were two board members, uh, on the PEP committee. And we're also in a district that is consistently facing financial crisis. Uh, mostly of our own, mostly of our own making. But some of it because of external stuff, uh, like federal funding and so on.

Tom: Um, and so, you know, you can imagine being a parent sitting here on the PEP, you're trying to vote. Maybe your school has a $50,000 set of reserves and the PTA fund and you're trying to [00:20:00] vote. It's 2020 and you're trying to vote if we give this money to the centralized organization or not. But that centralized organization is essentially funded, founded by two people on the school board who have the ability to close your school. Right? So, it puts you in a situation, I mean, it's hard to close a school, not like one of the board members could just be like close Lincoln Elementary. But like, you know, do you wanna put yourself in a position as just sort of a peak angering someone in this position of authority?

Tom: And it was this real difficult conflict of interest. And I don't think those board members should have done that. I mean, I will die on this hill that I think that it was a conflict of interest. That even if they were in favor of the cause, they shouldn't have been the ones leading it. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, but they were, um, I think, you know, and ultimately it's, it's sort of still in place. Um, but I think what's sort of happening is my, my best guess is what's gonna happen is that, that PTAs do have the ability to pull out at some point. 

Olivia: Ah, okay. 

Tom: And I think, I, I don't remember what that term, I've never actually seen the contract that the PTAs have with the PEP fund [00:21:00] if it even exists. Um, but my understanding is they could pull out at some point. Um, and I think they probably will. I think the what and what will remain, will be a pot of money that will hopefully dwindle slower to support the, the poorer schools and the richer schools can kick back off their fundraising mechanisms that they would know they would in the past. 

Olivia: Like you said, they have a $50,000 burn rate. Why are they burning at that rate? 

Tom: Uh, so the incentives for fundraising when you can't do galas is hard. I think like, you know, they're try, they do, you know, they do collaborations. Like a lot of PTAs will do this. We'll do collaborations like local restaurants where it's like you go there and it's like 10% of the proceeds or something.

Tom: Yeah. Or like a local bookstore will sometimes do things or like the big thing they'll do is like a native plant sale where like you go and buy plants and it goes into the PEP fund, which then gets redistributed. Um, but like, that's like whether we like it or not, that's a rounding error compared to what a really good fundraiser can get you in a gala.

Tom: And I know that. No one wants to really hear that. [00:22:00] Uh, and again, I'm not out here defending rich people being like, yeah, they're great. But I think like we need to be realistic about fundraising and not shoot ourselves in the foot. Right? Like the high school has no problem sort of taking money to this pharma guy.

Tom: You know? I think there's a. It's more of an art than a science 

Olivia: from where I live in Ithaca, that there's the um, IPEI, which is the Ithaca Public Education Initiative. And that has drastically evolved over the years of initially starting with these big events and galas and very, very wealthy benefactors to now doing a spelling bee and trying to be more grassroots.

Olivia: But again, I think it's hard. It's a hustle to try to do those smaller events, have the same people commit year after year when your kids are not in the school system anymore. Ideally, it makes sense because this is how it came up where I live. One of the elementary buildings wanted to install air purifiers, and it was put [00:23:00] out there of like, why is this something that should have to be fundraised or paid for by PTA?

Olivia: Why isn't this a district fund and do all schools need new air purifiers? I thought that was taken care of. And so it opened up this big conversation and that was what was fascinating to me. Should that be something that the PTA is paying for or is it something that the district should have to cover?

Tom: Yeah, I think that's a legitimate, I mean, so the PEP fund, if you read some of their initial documents, wanted to have a capital fund on the side where it was like, uh, you know, we can fund the building of tracks or whatever. Um, but I, I agree with you where it's sort of like, you know, especially having the board members on the, the PEP committee where it's like the, the school board has the ability to buy air purifiers.

Tom: Like there's no law that says no, you can't buy an air or to, to install a, a running track around the school, the school district. It gets, it's a facilities thing. You can do that. Like there's, that's like your number one job. And so like, I think there, [00:24:00] you know, I don't, I don't know. There, there was an intent, I think an early intent that we can sort of like, I guess if the school district wants to build a track, they can, they can build a track. So here in Evanston, you know, they're building a new school. We had this, uh, it's actually a very interesting story if you read about it, about the Foster school here. So there was a school in the Fifth Ward neighborhood, uh, which is the historically black neighborhood that was closed in the seventies and, uh, which, which happened around America to sort of bus black kids into white, white, white schools.

Tom: Uh, and ever since still does that. I think we run, be the only district left that does this. But they closed that school and they bused those kids. And uh, they finally, after a decade, we had an election here to build the school, and they voted no. And so it got shut down. And so then people tried to figure out ways to build the school and eventually they figured out a way out of dubious legality, but they're building the school, right?

Tom: And so like they're able to get facilities things done when there is like the, when there is the push for it and when people want it and like. I think, you [00:25:00] know, one thing that I've encountered with our district is school districts don't have very good facilities people, and I don't mean like the facilities, people maintaining your facilities. I mean, they don't have the institutional knowledge necessarily on how to build a school. Like ever since a 6,000-student district, like they don't know how to build a school. Like they don't know how to build something, you know, like they, they know how to maintain the schools and how to deal with needed, but like e even stuff like a running track.

Tom: Like what it…I don't know how to build a running track. I can call some, you know, like, so I think like the facilities thing became a real, is is a real issue. And it was frustrating 'cause it seemed like the board sometimes tried to push it off, right? Like, this is something the school district can afford to do. Like Evanston is an extremely wealthy town, we can figure out how to build a running track. Uh, and so, you know, this is push this back and forth that happens. You know, I personally don't think PTA should be doing capital improvements. Like it just seems outside of the scope of what they, what the taxpayers, that's why the taxpayers pay money is to do capital improvements to schools, you know?

Tom: And so [00:26:00] what is the role of a public school system, right? Like to what degree should it provide, you know, services after school or extracurriculars, or like to what degree should it work towards, uh, tackling larger systemic issues in the community? 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, you know, and I think it's, I think part of the challenge has been, I think in the last decade, the answer has been the schools can solve everything.

Olivia: And that's where we're falling apart. 

Tom: And it doesn't work. It costs a lot of money and everyone's still unhappy. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Um, and I, but I think the schools can be targeted. And I think this is, I think I'm not feeling good about the Trump era, but I think if there's one thing that's happening, which I'm actually seeing here, which is here in Evanston, the school board, even though we're in financial disarray, was, you know, when they, when we just had an election and one question I asked all the candidates was: If you have to say no to Donald Trump to continue doing our DEI programs, which we do, which don't even cost that much money, uh, are you willing to do so? And the answer among all, I think almost all of the candidates was yes, absolutely. 

Olivia: [00:27:00] Okay. 

Tom: And so I think there's a movement like to like be more targeted, uh, in the way, in the way we handle issues like this. Like for instance, like here in Evanston, one thing I've been trying to suggest is instead of talking about equity broadly. We could be more specific. Like the specific issue is, is in Evanston is black student achievement. Like black students are performing vastly lower than white students. And there's a lot of reasons for that.

Tom: Um, and it's not because we haven't hired the right consultant. Like it's not like the next consultant we hire is gonna solve this problem where the next PTA thing we do is gonna solve this problem. And, and it's, it's possible the school district has sort of limited capacity to solve the problem. But the school district has some role.

Tom: The high school district has some role, the city has some role, which they've sort of been abdicating, and we have Northwestern here. Northwestern has a massive role in being able to do this, and they are just kicking the can. And more and more I've become convinced that the role of a school board member is only half educational and the [00:28:00] other half is political. And that political is like, building bridges is like working with things like the PEP fund. It's working with the city, it's working with Northwestern, it's working with the high school and like it, it's an elected, it's an elected job. It's functionally, you know, at the end day political. It's political, but I think their roles need to be more political.

Tom: And I think a lot of people run for school work 'cause they're very good educators. And get kind of caught off guard when it's like, well we need to build this track for the school. We can't afford to pay for it, but maybe the city can. And actually the city has the money to do it in this complicated TIFF scheme and who do I talk to?

Tom: And so like, I think those, that is I think, the most important role that, that a school board member could play. And you know, this PEP fund is sort of a good example. You know, they were sort of getting into the weeds, the school board's sort of getting in the weeds of this educational funding model and this PTA funding model and like it benefited them personally 'cause one of them runs a consultancy doing this stuff. But like, is it like, I don't think we're better off. I think we're sort of, kind of a little bit worse off, to be honest. 

Olivia: Yeah, and that's why I, I think your [00:29:00] reporting is refreshing on this because you really do a deep dive and you've sent me a couple of links to articles that speak or posts that speak directly to this that I'll make sure to tuck into the show notes and this is an issue all over the states, and that's where I think you're, it's a cautionary tale and it's also your, your perspective's very authentic. And that's what I appreciate about you. Um, coming from the stance as a caregiver and this couldn't have been easy for you, reporting on this and having a child in the system, did that become hard for you ever?

Tom: No, actually, you know, like, I actually thought it would be, I was like, ah, they're gonna gimme a hard time about everything now. And like, no, actually people have shown me nothing but kindness and respect. Even, even the board members, I've been critical of, uh, they, maybe they've been a little curt to me sometimes, but like, I, I've never felt like they were, you know, and one thing I've tried to encourage more [00:30:00] parents to do is to do journalism or to do investigations like this because like, I think there's a fear that it's like uh, if, if I talk about these things, there's gonna be all these words out there. 

Tom: People are gonna use them to attack me and attack my child. And like I have, look, there's definitely crazy people out there and I've run into some of them, but like 99.999% of the people I’ve encountered in this project have been coming in receptive. And I think the PTA fund is like a great example of something that, like, they tried something and, you know, it's better - it's, it's a shot. Like we got, you gotta start somewhere. And like they tried something. I actually don't think it's gonna work, but I think, you know, I actually don't think it's that far off.

Olivia: We can learn. Yeah.

Tom: I think can learn. I think there's ways learn. There's ways that we can make this thing work and you know, we can make it so that everyone feels a little bit better about themselves and, but more importantly, the kids get money. Right? Like, and the kids are going on field trips or whatever it is that the PTAs in case want. Along with giving the PTAs the ability to sort of, they still need to be able to fundraise. You know, they, they actually [00:31:00] modified, this is the one thing that they did modify in recent years is the PTAs are allowed to have a $5,000 sort of, not, not a hundred percent of the money goes to the PEP fund anymore. They're allowed to keep $5,000 back, which they can use for things like teacher, you know, like getting a gift for a teacher retiring or something like that.

Olivia: That makes sense. Yeah. It's about balance. 

Tom: Yeah. So I, I think they're finding something and I think like, like the, there's only so much money, right? Like they're burning 50 grand a year. They need to figure out a way to solve, to solve that, to solve that nut, correct. To crack that nut. 

Olivia: Well, you give very good examples of what to not even avoid, but the only way to move forward and polarized or difficult conversations is to understand the gray area, the complexities. And so what you've helped me do is get smarter that if I am gonna be in conversation with a school district around establishing a fund of this type at all, I would be better on, I would be better armed to understand the complexity that I could put out on the table of this is what could go [00:32:00] really well with this or this is could go, is what could go really poorly with this.

Olivia: And when we come together around those complexities, that's how we move forward. It's, and, and I think that's what's what we need to do in this world these days, right? Because we are so polarized around everything. 

Tom: The reality is, is sort of as usual some, somewhere in the middle, which is sort of like, we can do this thing. We, can do this thing so it works. You know, to, to your point, like I've talked to some PTA people around the country, you know, like in other towns they have in other towns, the extremes are even more extreme. Like I was talking to a friend of mine at Houston who was like, yeah, our PTA like built a wing of the school. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I was like, that's insane. It's more than 

Olivia: It’s more than a track. 

Tom: Yeah, I know. I was like, oh my God, that's insane. And he, and but part of the reason is 'cause they have no more state fund, no more funding from, you know, the, the city or the state. And so they're depending on, on the PTA and like, that's also a problem 'cause that means you've got in the same city, schools in the nice neighborhoods, building a new wing in schools and schools…

Olivia: Falling apart…. [00:33:00] 

Tom: Falling apart. Right. So like, I think there is a genuine desire to centralize these functions. I think like, you know, just like, again, I think it all at the end of the day, it comes back to a fundraising problem. Like how does, you know Evanston benefits from having one high school? And the, the donors can all have, the high schools are also different in a way because the donors have their experience. I was on the football team, you know? The donors have those experiences and I don't think there's very many people that are like, I, like, I love middle school. I wanna like go donate to my seventh grade track. Like yeah, I mean there's some people, but like, you know, the high schools and the universities have such a leg up on fundraising. 

Olivia: It's the nostalgia factor. 

Tom: It’s the nostalgia. But I think the, honestly, I think the impact, if you want to have high-impact fundraising is in K to five, right?

Olivia: I agree. 

Tom: Like, I think that's what will move the needle more than anything. In fact, preschool to five, right? Yeah. And so like, there's just this big disconnect and there's gotta be a way to sort of fix it. And I think one way [00:34:00] is through more political handshaking by board members. I mean the, the board members should be at the high school board meetings.

Tom: They should be at the Northwestern trustee meetings. Right? They should be like having me building these relationships. Um, and 'cause again, you don't wanna be in a position where you're just depending on one rich lady that has a gala every year. Right? Like, that doesn't make 

Olivia: No, it's not sustainable at all.

Tom: That's not sustainable either. So I think there's like a community wide way to do this. And Evanston is ahead of the curve because we have so many levels of government. We have like the two school districts, the city, the county, Northwestern. You know, we have, I think we're sort of a little bit ahead of the curve and sort of feeling the pain. Um, but I, I, I, I think this is a completely solvable problem. And I know I was critical and I've been critical of my blog, but I think this is a solvable problem. Like, I don't, I don't think it's that insurmountable. 

Olivia: Yeah. And you've given us, I, I think you've given listeners many different access points to know what wasn't perfect with this, but I, I, I wanna end on the note.[00:35:00]  You will never know if you're, if you're only going to try something because it's gonna have a perfect outcome, then we're all outta luck. So give it a go. 

Olivia: It may not go perfectly, but, have as many people around the table as possible to be part of the conversation, and that's where you're reporting and you being a caregiver in the district, you offer a perspective that is vast because you're also exploring, it's not political, but you do know you have those connections at all the different levels. So I think it's reaching out to those community organizations and having the bigger picture of how this could impact and the ripple effects. 

Tom: You know, there's a lot of people that run for board again, that, that have the knowledge of how to, how to educate students. But I think like when we talk about funding, when we talk about the Trump era, like educational funding when we talk, you know, that means if you're in a blue state as I am, as you are, like these governments have to work together in a way that they didn't have to in the past.

Olivia: Yes. 

Tom: Right. And so like, I think that's important. I [00:36:00] think like being able to network with community organizations like Evanston probably more than anywhere on Earth has the highest per capital amount of like com community family organizations in the town, uh, that are nonprofits. Like, like, like working with them. Like, you know, we don't have to fund them. But I think there's a lot of ways that you can work together and also, like this is true for you in Ithaca and at and me and Evanston is the university, I think I, I will personally say that I think Northwestern has a school of education. I'm sure Cornell does too- 

Olivia: And Ithaca College as well.

Tom: And I, and I, and I think the universities need to step up. 

Olivia: I agree.

Tom: I think it's, it they need to do more than just provide student teachers and, and sort of use the, use the public as, as a way to help them. I think they need to contribute back a little bit more in terms of, especially in terms of funds. Um, they have the funds. They have the ability to use them and the desire, and you know, Northwestern is very motivated by PR You know, like for instance, they're building this, this school in the fifth ward, it's costing the district $40 million. Northwestern is building an [00:37:00] $800 million football stadium. You know, why couldn't Northwestern be part of, like, why, why wasn't that Foster School? This, this school in the historically black neighborhood part of the stadium discussions? And the answer is because there was nobody from the school district and nobody from the city advocating for that. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Tom: Like. There was no doubt in my mind if they had gone to Northwestern and were like, you can't; If the mayor went to Northwestern and said, we won't zone your stadium unless you help us with this Foster school. And, and on top of that, on top of that, look at all the PR you can get for helping us with the Foster school. Yes. Northwestern would be like, yes, please. Where do I sign? 

Olivia: That's so interesting.

Tom: And the problem is, is like those conversations aren't happening and like, I think like those conversations, it's board members that need to have those conversations. Like if you're running for board, you are a person shaking hands. You should know a lot of people. You should know the community members, you know, and like you should be the one in the room when the stadium negotiation's happening.

Olivia: Well, I, and I, I think that for us, ending on that note, and having the bigger picture of [00:38:00] how the whole community has to chip in and I, it, it all comes back to kids and benefiting kids and the teachers that are in the classrooms with them, because if the teachers feel demoralized and that they're spending all of this money outside of their pockets, that's not fair either. So it's, it's, that's the intent of the PTA as well, like help teachers support the kids in their rooms. So, thank you, Tom. 

Tom: Yeah. There's one, one last great example on that, which is going back to sort of Northwestern. Which is Northwestern has a school of education and like the profession, they could offer a level of professional development to teachers that the district simply cannot afford. Um, and they, they don't like, you know, I think there's like a, a huge, just like missed gap between sort of like the universities in our towns and us and as the people. And it's not just a college town thing. I think it's sort of a more broad thing…

Tom: But like, I think, look, there's a lot of opportunities where, people who have education, who have missions that are in the business of [00:39:00] education are not aligned. And like, if there's one piece of optimism, uh, not to endorse Donald Trump in any way, but if there's one piece of optimism I can give about this sort of current moment is that I feel like it's, this is a force in function that is going to push places that were previously dysfunctional and could kind of get away with it…

Olivia: To figure out how to work together.

Tom: To figure out how to work together. Yeah. And I think I, I. Honestly, I feel like Evanston is in that place now. Uh, knock on wood. Uh, but I feel like I, I feel like things are, things are moving in a way, and the PEP fund was sort of a very early version of this, but I think, I think things are moving in the right direction.

Olivia: Well, Tom, I thank you so much for your time. You're a very busy guy, and I, I just am grateful for your perspective, your reporting, and you're focused on kids doing right by kids and letting the drama go, have the conversations, but it shouldn't be about the drama. 

Tom: I love the drama. But at the end of the day, I have a kid too, so.

Olivia: Yeah. Let's, let's get it done. Thank you, Tom. Take care. 

Tom: Thanks.[00:40:00] 

Olivia: Schoolutions Coaching and Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me. Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to solutions wherever you get your podcasts, or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Tom Hayden through his comprehensive reporting for sharing how the PTA equity project was well intentioned as an equity initiative, and yet how it also faced complex challenges based on balancing centralized funding with school autonomy. 

Olivia: Now, I'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com let me know what resonated most from my conversation with Tom. Tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. And stay tuned for my bonus episodes every [00:41:00] Friday where I'll reflect and share connections to what I learned from the guest that week.

Olivia: See you then.