What Kids REALLY Need When They Act Out

In this S5E13 Schoolutions Teaching Strategies conversation, join me with attachment expert Eli Harwood ("The Attachment Nerd") as she revolutionizes our understanding of student behavior, classroom belonging, and student engagement. Discover why nervous laughter isn't defiance - it's a cry for help with emotional regulation.

In this transformative episode, you'll learn:
• Why "You're fine" might be damaging student success [33:00]
• The critical difference between confidence and arrogance in inclusive classrooms [8:00]
• How to transform low engagement through pro-kid mindset approaches
• Revolutionary strategies for student motivation and active learning
• The neuroscience behind classroom behavior and attention in class

Key Insights for Education Transformation:
✓ Innovative teaching method: "Reach before you teach" - the foundation of student participation
✓ How to create classroom belonging when students laugh at inappropriate times 
✓ Instructional strategies that address tool deficiency, not heart deficiency
✓ Why 80% of brain development happens by age 3 - and what it means for teaching tips

Featured Teaching Strategies:
• One-down curiosity technique for inspiring students [29:00]
• Reaction journals for culturally responsive teaching [21:00]
• Enthusiastic greeting rituals for school culture improvement [33:30]
• Effective teaching approaches for whole child development

Resources Mentioned:
• Book: Raising Securely Attached Kids
• Website: attachmentnerd.com
• Research: Mary Ainsworth's Strange Situation

Chapters
0:00 Introduction: When Students Laugh at Tragedy
1:00 Meet Attachment Expert Eli Harwood
2:00 Research Foundation: Mary Ainsworth & Attachment
5:36 "We Before Me": Understanding Development
7:00 The 80% Brain Development Milestone
8:00 Confidence vs. Arrogance Explained
10:00 The Problem with Praise-Based Feedback
13:00 Real Story: Connecting with Disengaged Students
14:14 "Reach Before You Teach" Philosophy
15:16 Why Students Laugh at Inappropriate Times
17:00 How to Respond to Nervous Laughter
19:00 Understanding Bullying Behavior
21:00 Creating Reaction Journals
22:00 Tool Deficient vs. Heart Deficient
23:00 Structure vs. Suffocation in Teaching
26:00 Setting Clear Expectations
28:00 Allowing Students to Fail Safely
29:00 One-Down Curiosity Technique
32:00 Lightning Round: Stop Saying "You're Fine"
33:30 Enthusiastic Greeting Ritual
35:00 The Secure Parent Program

Join our community of educators committed to cultivating student success, inspired teaching, and creating inclusive classrooms with a pro-kid mindset focused on the whole child. When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

📧 Connect: schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com
🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

Don't forget to 🔔SUBSCRIBE for more teaching tips, and 💬SHARE with fellow educators! 

#SecurelyAttachedKids #AttachmentNerd #SchoolutionsTeachingStrategies

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] What if I told you that when your students or your own children laugh at something tragic or act like they don't care about others, they're not broken or heartless, they're actually showing you exactly where they need your help. Today, attachment expert Eli Harwood, also known as The Attachment Nerd, is going to flip everything you thought you knew about nurturing, confident, empathetic kids on its head.

She's about to share why children have the total opposite reactions than we expect them to sometimes, why the phrase “you’re fine,” might be doing more harm than good and what the differences are between confidence and arrogance. Let's jump in.

This is Schoolutions Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for [00:01:00] educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive. 

I am Olivia Wahl, and I am so happy to have Eli Harwood back on the podcast today. Let me tell you a little bit about Eli if you have not already met her. Eli Harwood is known to many as the beloved Attachment Nerd creator. She's devoted her life and career spanning the last 17 years to the intricate art and science of attachment relationships. Our conversation today will focus on how attachment theory can help our children learn to communicate effectively and thrive.

We'll zoom in on chapters five and six of Eli's most recent book. I have it right here. I just have to say like, the cover is actual embroidery. Like you cannot make this up. Um, the book is Raising Securely Attached Kids: Using Connection Focused Parenting to Create Confidence, Empathy, and Resilience. [00:02:00] Eli, welcome back. It is a gift to be in conversation with you again. 

Eli: Thank you. I feel the same way. 

Olivia: I'm psyched and I've shared with you before we jumped on to record. I have a couple selfish reasons that I needed to talk with you again and to pick your brain. Um, we're zooming in on chapters five and six - everyone needs to have this book though, and it's critical, I would say, for caregivers as well as educators. Um, thinking of empathy, thinking of developing confident, not arrogant children. That's what we're speak to today. Um, so kick us off with some research. Who are you leaning on lately? A researcher or a nugget, um, that grounds your work.

Eli: Yeah, so I'm, I get, I like to get into the weeds of kind of like what's the most recent attachment research while also with, while also kind of staying in, I would say the foundational research. So I always [00:03:00] go, Mary Ainsworth. Mary Ainsworth created The Strange Situation. I write about that in the book. Um, her work of just really understanding parental reliability.

How children experience, uh, parents either as a safe haven they can rely on or uh, not, right? And so I think that piece of research of really helping me go back to what is it that we can do as caregivers, as parents, as teachers? Teachers end up playing the role of attachment figure often for kids, um, because they're filling in the gaps of what, you know, parents are not always able to do based on their own trauma circumstances, et cetera.

So what can we be doing as the adults in the lives of our kids to cultivate relationships where, where our, these kids can rely on us and they can rely on us as support. As, you know, guides, right? They can rely on us for empathy and understanding. So that's Mary Ainsworth. Um, and then I'd say a lot [00:04:00] of the, the newer research is kind of, um, looking at the neuroscience of some of this, which is, is just good for bolstering my confidence in all of it.

You know, it's like, oh, this is like sciencey. Sciencey. Um, you know, there's some interesting stuff with someone recently, and I'm not gonna be able to quote the researcher. I'll, I'll find a link for you so you can put it in the notes, but. Um, they've been doing research on this very particular nerve in our bodies, they call it The Attachment Nerd.

Olivia: Come on!

Eli: Um, you know, that stroking kind of touch that we do. We, I, I used to do this with my baby's heads, this kind of thing. It's like there is a rhythm and a timing with which this nerve activates and it plays a role in regulating the heart. So, you know, the, the, we are wired to be supported, soothed, connected to other people.

And obviously you're not doing this with, you know, your junior high school math students, right? So, you know, a lot of that happens, you know, early on in development. But what if it doesn't [00:05:00] happen? And then, then what are our children, you know, developmentally needing and how do we meet those needs later on? Um, that's really all very interesting to me, but I think the crux of it is human beings are relational creatures and the research is very clear that that is wired into our biology and deeply affects our trajectory. 

Olivia: So then let's go to a quote that I have right from your mouth, because I think this is huge for caregivers and educators to hear. I'm gonna read it, “Human beings are a ‘we’ before a ‘me.’ I'd love for you to speak then to what does this mean for how we parent and how we nurture a community in a classroom? 

Eli: Mm-hmm. This concept is harder for those of us who have grown up in like western civilization and ideas where we have individualistic culture. You know, we think in terms of, you know, separateness before we think about togetherness. Whereas I, you know, have worked and lived in, [00:06:00] uh, Asian countries and countries with corporate culture. You know, I think it's easier to understand in those contexts. It's like, well, yeah, of course we're a we. Um, but for me, as an American, it's taken me some time to kind of go, okay, what does that mean?

Well, what it means is human beings are born entirely dependent on other human beings. So a child doesn't come out of a womb with a consciousness of their self, with a separateness. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Their entire experience of life is about who's touching them, who isn't, who's feeding them. You know, it's a sensory experience. It's not an identity experience. Um, and what we know from the data is that the quality of interaction that a child receives, especially in those early years has an impact on how their brain develops. Like literally the structure. You know, are we gonna look for thickened prefrontal cortex because a child received a lot of attunement and touch? Or are we [00:07:00] noticing an enlarged amygdala because a child felt isolated or scared? It's at our core, we develop our sense of self in relationship to our relationships. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: And so how we relate to our children is, is a integral part of how they will come to see themselves. 

Olivia: And you also offer this statistic that speaks directly to this. It's terrifying yet for any new caregiver, new parent out there for grandparents that like, listen because by age three we have developed 80%, 80% of our brain matter, 

Eli: Of our brain structure. Yes. 

Olivia: I mean, so I, I appreciate how you're letting us actually visualize the brain development based on that nurturing or attunement that we have. Um. And then I'm going to pivot because you're talking about a 10-year-old. I have a 13-year-old in my house. I have a [00:08:00] 17-year-old that's off in college now. It's bananas. And I've worked really hard with my husband to try to develop confident kids that are also kind and loving and empathetic. And you discern in chapter five so beautifully between confidence and arrogance. Can you define for us what are the differences between confidence and arrogance? 

Eli: You know, confidence is a deep sense of our worthiness. So if I'm confident, then I believe I am worthy, and that worthiness can, you know, translate in different levels in different arenas for us, you know, we might be less confident with public speaking. 

Olivia: Right.

Eli: But, you know, more confident with, you know, our ability to bake a pie. You know, so it, it, obviously it's not, it's not a monolith – confidence. But in general, the sense if someone has a deep sense of confidence, they are, they believe on a core level that they are worthy of [00:09:00] safety, of connection, of dignity, of joy, of rest, right? Of all the goodness of life. 

Eli: Arrogance, on the other hand, is a comparative mindset. So confidence is I feel confident in myself. I also then naturally believe other people deserve all of those things, like truly confident people believe that everyone deserves all of those good things of life. 

Olivia: Yes.

Eli: Whether or not everyone has it is a different story, but we believe that everyone deserves that arrogance says there's a hierarchy of deserving. And so arrogance says, I deserve these things more than somebody else. Right? As opposed to I do. And so do they. And I think, I think sometimes we get lost in, um, fear around what if my child, you know, I don't want them to be arrogant, so like, if they're really believing in themselves or they're asking for something, then you know, like, [00:10:00] oh no, is that arrogant? Or even in ourselves, like, am I being arrogant if I believe that I deserve something good? No, no - you're only being arrogant if you think someone else doesn't deserve it. 

Olivia: And that can connect to imposter syndrome in a way as well, right? Of like, whoa, this really amazing thing is coming my way and I don't know if I'm worthy of it. Am I? 

Eli: Yes. 

Olivia: Right. And so I think that's a whole other layer, um, of that self-questioning. And then I also think too, praise based feedback can be really detrimental, um, to the self. It's just, it's not improvement feedback. So you have a formula you've crafted and created around how we can offer feedback, that praises effort. Would you mind speaking to that? 

Eli: Yes. And it's really not mine. This comes from this, this, this work, um, comes from Carol Dweck. [00:11:00] And she talks about the inverse power of praise, of how praise can actually make kids feel more paralyzed. Because if I say, “you're so smart.” 

We would consider that praise. Um, then a child is now locked into being smart. And what if I do something that makes me not smart? Or how do I handle, you know, if I fail, does that mean I'm not smart? Um, so the, the piece of the puzzle is being able to help our children get feedback about the things they are doing that are yielding the goals and rewards that they want to experience. So instead of saying, “you're so smart,” I say, “Whoa. That was incredible. I saw how you just used your brain to like, walk through the different steps there and, and analyze what the, what the answer might be,” or, “that was so amazing how I, how you, um went back to your notes and referenced your notes to find the thing you were looking for. You remembered [00:12:00] that you had a resource you could draw upon. How incredible, how crafty.”

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: You know, or we're speaking to what is it that you are doing, what are the steps you're taking? Because when we are learning, we are also failing. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Eli: Anybody here have some rough roads along your learning journey? You know that there's, we want kids to see that being smart is about processing the information, the tools, the access. It's not about a goal that you achieve or an answer that you get, right? It's about how you engage the learning process. Um, and that's just so much more rewarding for all of us, you know, to be able to be like, oh, I'm, I know how to do this, and we can replicate it, right? So I can't always replicate being smart. 

Olivia: I had this crazy experience last week of being able working with teachers across the day, and they had one [00:13:00] particular student four different times, four different classes. 

Eli: Woah…

Olivia: And I saw how he interacted with four different adults based on the expectations they had for him. And in one of them, I actually approached him and I said, “Why do you come to school?” And he said, “because I'm forced to.” And I responded, in a way, I think it surprised him. I said, “well, what would you do if you didn't have to come to school?” He looked at me thinking I was going to convince him that he had to come to school every day. And I, he said, “well, I would work, uh, as a carpenter like my dad.”

Eli: Oh, wow. 

Olivia: And I said, okay, so this is what you need to know in order to become an expert carpenter like your dad, you have to have these crazy good math skills and literacy skills to read and write the contracts and so you can just have a sustaining business. And he kind of [00:14:00] looked at me and, and sat back and thought, oh. The next day he'd pretended to not see me the rest of the day.

The next day I saw him in the hall and he kind of nodded at me and I thought, when we see kids and the idea of praise sometimes it actually sets the bar low, I think. And so it's, it's how can we acknowledge kids' effort and continue to have those expectations rise for them? I don't know. I don't know what you think about that. 

Eli:  Well oh, what I think that you did is the most beautiful, magical thing of all, which is you, you reached him. Right? So one of my favorite, favorite phrases that I tell myself is, “Reach before you teach.”

Olivia: I also think that trying to force empathy can be really dangerous and ineffective. 

Eli:  You, you can’t…

Olivia: Okay, so speak to that. You can't, okay. Why? 

Eli: So empathy cannot be taught through, um, linear lessons. It is an experiential lesson, [00:15:00] period. So if you want to help increase empathy in anyone in your life, you give them empathy. You empathize with them. This is challenging. Especially, I think in a world that feels so polarized and where, like, I don't know, I, maybe this is dramatic, but I feel like hate has been popularized lately. Like it's popular to like not give a crap about people or certain people. Um, but at the end of the day, you're never gonna reach someone by telling them you’re not a good enough person because you don't care about other people. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: You reach them by having empathy for what it is that's going on with them. Um, and let me give you an example. So let's say, let's say you're in a classroom and you're teaching about something that involves, um, a lot of complex tragedy. And in the middle of that process, a bunch of kids burst out into laughter. [00:16:00] Ooo, that's a trigger that could be such a trigger because it's like..

Olivia: Yes, it’s baffling… 

Eli: This is inappropriate.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Um, but actually a lot of times nervous laughter is the body's first response to horror and terror. So if I don't know how to hold horror and terror in my nervous system, because no one has responded to my feelings of vulnerability and distress. Then when someone else is telling me a big story, my body is going to try to bring levity to the moment.

Olivia: That's so interesting.

Eli: Because I'm trying to regulate, so it's actually a regulation response generally. Could someone be mocking? Of course that could be there. Maybe they've been taught to do that. But again, why? Why is that being there? What? What is being there? It's a lack of ability to tolerate and feel those painful feelings that come up when we hear about awful things.

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: So as a teacher in that moment, the knee jerk reaction is like, “Absolutely not. This is not funny. We do not laugh about this [00:17:00] level of terror or horror” or whatever, but what, what you've actually done just then is the opposite of empathy. So what's the human thing? So I, I think the most powerful thing to that do in that moment is to pause and go, “This is kind of awkward. This is sort of uncomfortable. You know, I, I want you all to recognize, I wanna fall to notice every time we laugh, because when we're laughing, it's a sign that we were feeling uncomfortable about the level of pain and tear in this story. And that makes sense because none of us have lived through this story. Or, or maybe we know someone who has, but we don't, we don't wanna know that. 'cause it's disturbing.” 

Olivia: Yeah, yeah. 

Eli: You know, and so you, you're modeling that you respond to people's feeling states while holding onto their dignity. Um, and man, this is hard. You know, when you, you see bullying in the world? [00:18:00] Oh, the instinct is “Absolutely not, not on my, not in front of me.” 

You know, and it is not that we become permissive and we look the other way. It's, we have to engage with an understanding of why does anybody bully anybody? Because somewhere they learned that the most important way to survive is to be on top in the pecking order. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: And they've either themselves been at the bottom or they've witnessed other people being at the bottom, and they instinctively don't want that. And so, you know, being able to pull a kid aside and say, “Hey, I'm not sure where you learned it. I'm sure you learned it - because I know that's not innately who you are.”

Olivia: Right. 

Eli: “What I just saw happening was bullying. I wanna explain to you what I saw, but I wanna understand your why. Were, what was happening for you kid? Were you, were you wanting so and so to think you were cool? [00:19:00] I want people to think I'm cool and I'm ancient.”

You know? Finding reach before you teach. Yeah. And be wary of preaching. Preaching is when we start, we start just running our mouth without any uh, recognition of the voice or the need behind the bad behavior, behind the thing.

Olivia: Yeah, that is extraordinarily helpful. Um, I'm thinking of middle school teachers out there that are trying to navigate reading content with kids that they may find scary or out of the ordinary, or even with characters that they have never met or seen or experienced knowing. And so the way you just framed that would be tremendously helpful.

It is for me as a coach as well as for the educators I'm working with and for caregivers. Because sometimes you feel like you've done something wrong. [00:20:00] if your child reacts like with laughter, but that your explanation was just so helpful for me. 

Eli: I'm so glad. You know, and the other ideal thing would be setting up expectations before you read something. You know, “Hey, this is, we're gonna read this book in this story and I'm gonna be real with you. It's uncomfortable for me to read. And you may experience a range of different reactions, emotional reactions in yourself. You might feel numb and checked out while you're reading. I want you to be curious about that.”

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Um, “You might feel angry and, you know, feel the burn and the fire of injustice. You might feel sad, you might feel hopeless, you might feel awkward. And in fact, at some of the most disturbing moments in the story, you might find yourself automatically laughing. These are all human reactions [00:21:00] to painful stories.”

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

Eli: “That we, we all have different ways of reacting to pain and we all react differently to pain at different times in our lives. So let's pay attention and, and here I'm gonna have you keep, uh, a reaction journal.”

Olivia: Come on. That's such a good idea. 

Eli: Yep. And so we're, we're noticing. And then, and then as, as a teacher, you know, you're able to give empathy to that journal. You know, when the kid's like, ha ha, this is a joke. This is dumb. You know, you're like, 

Olivia: Tell me more. 

Eli: Tell me more. Tell me more about what that is and you know where that comes from. And, um, you know, I, I think, I always think how do I, how do I normalize for a child, whether they're fourteen or they're two this feeling is in your body for a reason. And you can make a choice about what you're gonna [00:22:00] do in response to it. Right? So, you know, I think that tension is making sure that you are seeing the feeling from a place of dignity. Even if it's a kid I'm in, you know, I get it. There are kids where it's like, it's really hard to connect.

Well, why? Why is it really hard to connect? You know? So seeing kids as, who are cold or mocking or bullying or disconnected as being tool-deficient, not heart-deficient, not care-deficient, they're tool deficient. The care is in there. They're born with it. We just have to figure out how to give them the tools they need in order to show us those parts of themself. But those parts are there. 

Olivia: But there are so many kids in our schools that are showing up without the tools. Whether it be because it's not coming from home, I don't know. [00:23:00] And so there is this multitude that now teachers are having to fill. And when I shifted into chapter six., I'm an over highlighter. It's a really bad habit, and so I started to only highlight lines that I'm like, okay, I could hear your voice.

Just, your voice just rings so loud in true through your writing, I feel like I'm sitting and talking with you. It's just beautiful. 

Eli: I love that. 

Olivia: And I went to that idea of structure. Because now thinking too of my older son in college and younger son, it's that not over - um, what is it? The idea of suffocation versus scaffolding. And I was speaking with someone on Friday and she said, do you use, uh, what is it, 360 (app) with your son to know where he is? It was like, no, what do you mean? And I like, I, it didn't even occur to me to do that. We have a video call once a week. Um. [00:24:00] and he, she said, oh, well, I know where my child is and I'm not being judgemental right now. You do you…

Eli: No, no, no, no, no. Two different, two different choices. 

Olivia: Yeah. And in my mind it was once he flew from our house to go, I have to trust that no matter what situation he is in, if it's really bad, he'll reach out if he needs help. Otherwise he's got it. And I, I had to, as a caregiver, break free of knowing. I don't want to know. 

Eli: No. 

Olivia: In every moment. 

Eli: No, no. You, that won't work well because, because he, his brain in his, you know, adolescence as a 17-year-old college student, his brain is activating him to take necessary risks that allow him to develop what he needs to develop. Your brain is not going to be able to process that information in any way other than a threat.

Olivia: Right. 

Eli: And so you're gonna go into threat mode, you [00:25:00] know, more regularly. Um, I think this is such an important piece of information too, is like, okay, so what's, how do we give kids the structure they need and then release them and us of that structure when they're ready? And ready doesn't mean they are as mature as we are. They're not going to be. Ready means that they have enough trust in you and in themselves to make the mistakes they need to make and reach out for the help they're gonna need when they make. 

Olivia: Yeah, yeah. 

Eli: Um, so I mean, I think how, when you are thinking about teachers right now in terms of like the structure piece and you have these kids coming in who are maybe more relationally um, tool deficient 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Than previous generations. I think there's a lot of stuff we're still teaching kids that went through the pandemic. You know, who missed out on a lot of socialization that they needed. Um, [00:26:00] what are, what are you feeling like the, the need is in terms of talking about the structure piece? Are teachers over structuring? Are they under structuring? Are, what do you think the issue is there? 

Olivia: I would say it's actually a huge lack of just engagement. And so planning for chunks of time, if we're talking middle and high school, if it's a 40-minute period, how much time can we offer kids that we trust that they will engage as learners without starting to fling papers or drop pencils, or you get up and use the bathroom, that type of piece. And so it's that trust of. I know you've got this. Um, and so that's what I would say. It's, it's the idea of structure of planning for students to actually do work and engage with it. 

Eli: Kids are going to pick up on our presence as, as well as our [00:27:00] expectations. So I think remembering that when you come into the classroom, like trust yourself, that you know that what you are offering is good for these kids. And, um uh, bring to them a clear understanding of what is expected and what will happen if it's not happening. And I don't mean that like a threatening, punitive way, but like, “Hey, this is what it looks like, you know, this is how you get a passing grade in my class. This is how you get a B. This is how you get an A um, this is how you leave this classroom with a sharper mind and more tools for life.”

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Um, you are gonna, you child, are in charge of that. I am not in charge of that. I'm going to set the table. You have to pick up your fort and eat it. 

Olivia: Yes! 

Eli: And I'm gonna make you some delicious food and some nutritious food that is gonna help you grow. But at the end of the day, you don't wanna pick up that fork. You don't want to eat. I can't force you to. Then you really have to work on not forcing that, allowing the structure [00:28:00] to be the thing, allowing that kid to keep failing, allowing them to fail your class. I do you think there's a fear of letting kids fail.

Olivia: I agree.

Eli: I, I and I, I'm not as afraid of a kid failing in high school as I am them failing once they've launched out of into the world. Like I'd much rather a kid fail while they're still in a system that can help them figure out what they need to do in order to succeed. Um, you know, it's not about “well, you deserve that, you know, it's like, Hey, this is what I'm seeing. What, what do we need to help you get what you, what you need?” 

Olivia: It's, it's a long game. It’s a long game. It really is. 

Eli: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Olivia: But have you thought through how our kids could also have these conversations in kind loving ways? 

Eli: Ooh, I love this. Yes! My sons just joined Peer Mentors. I don't know, like there's lots of different groups that, you know, do stuff like that and I, but I love, I love that like making sure there are programs within our educational system that are helping kids help kids and, and have those crucial conversations.

[00:29:00] Um, one of my favorite kind of hacks in relationships is what I would call one-down curiosity one of my old colleagues, Katie Greenleaf, if she's listening, (Hi, Katie!) taught me this a long time ago, which, and the idea is this. When you are asking someone to do something differently, to make a change, whether that's for themselves or for the classroom or for you, start by making sort of a suggestion that's actually below what it is you kind of think, you know already.

So, so let's say a kid is acting out a lot and they're kind of clowning around and they're, they're flicking the paper at other kids and, you know, you, you pull them aside and you say, “Hey, okay, I need your help with something. I sense you are either bored, distracted, disinterested, um, or you, or just really don't like this class. I'm not sure what it is. Um, but there's something going on [00:30:00] with you that I think is making it hard for you to follow the expectations I've set, and maybe it's my expectations. Are they too high? I just don't think that's the case. My instinct is you, you've got a, a lot of brain going on in that noggin of yours. Um, am I wrong? What is going on?”

And, and by doing that, you know, you might learn that a kid doesn't think they're smart. Like, “No, I'm not smart.” And you're like, you're like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait. What? Oh my gosh. I, I just strongly disagree. Can we debate this for a minute? I'd like to debate you about whether or not you're smart.Let me show you some things I can see that are smart. I noticed that you have incredible fashion sense. You are very keen at picking up on what is cool right now. Look at that. Look at that, look at that. Um, oh, I, I have watched how quickly and how wittily you come up with funny things to say. They aren't always the kindness we need to work on that, but man, they're witty.They are witty. And you know what wit is? Wit is brains, wit is smart, [00:31:00] you know?”

And so, so now you're, now you're creating a connection with a kid. That is, is about bolstering their sense of self. Yeah. Um, and you're being curious as opposed to conclusive. Hmm. Right. Um, what is this? You know? Or, and, and you could even start that whole conversation out with just, “Hey, okay, this is what I know. This is what I don't know. What I know is that, you know, you're flinging papers, you're not really listening. You're doing all this stuff. What I don't know is, is that because you hate this class? Is that because it has, you have a hard time paying attention. Is that because things are going on in your life that are just too big to give a care about algebra? Like what is the thing going on kid?”

Olivia: Yeah. 

Eli: Uh, and they might be like, “Nothing. Nothing's going on. And you'd be like, okay, well that's good. I was worried it was something big. I'm so glad there's nothing, um, help me solve this problem. How do I [00:32:00] get Jake to be engaged enough that his brain leaves my classroom full of confidence in himself, knowing how smart he is and, and understanding the quadratic equation so that he can go and, you know, blah, blah, blah. How do I do this?”

Um, so that one down curiosity, you can teach that to kids too. Like, you know, anytime you're worried about someone or you need to confront something, start with curiosity. Ask them a question. 

Olivia: Uh, I wanna move to a lightning round. 

Eli: Great. 

Olivia: And so I'm gonna throw some questions at you. Give me your gut reactions. 

Eli: Okay. 

Olivia: What's the biggest parenting myth that you have to confront often? 

Eli: That it's your job to shape who your child is, that the role of the parent is controlling the outcome of the child. 

Olivia: That's a good one. Um, what's one phrase that caregivers should stop saying immediately? [00:33:00] 

Eli: You're fine. 

Olivia: So good. It's true. Oh my gosh. Um, what's the most powerful question caregivers should ask themselves daily? 

Eli: What do I need to be regulated enough to connect with my child today? 

Olivia: What’s a structure that we should implement right away in our home? 

Eli: Uh, rituals of connection. My, my favorite, easiest structure that you can implement as a parent is enthusiastic greeting. My kids know without a doubt that when they see me, when they're coming off the school bus, when they're waking up in the morning, that my eyes are gonna light up, my face is gonna light up, my arms are gonna be wide open, and they, they can have whatever reaction they want to that, you know, they, they may not be interested in that.

Um, and if they come in, you know, sad and soggy, I'm not gonna go, “Hey!”

I'm gonna attune to them, but, but my, the message is, I am so glad to [00:34:00] see you. That, that structure more than maybe any other structure you create as a parent is making sure your kids know that they bring light into your heart when they come into the room.

Olivia: Eli, I remember seeing a reel that you posted a, a long time ago around how our dogs, how our animals greet us. Specifically dogs though, like they've never seen you, even if it's 10 minutes after you've been out of the house. And that after hearing that, I try my darnedest no matter where I am in the house to run like a maniac when I hear the ring doorbell, to be there and then attune, but just to be present and to show that same love, um, just unconditional. Like I will be there for you, however, and whenever I can. Um, I have also followed your website, The Nerd Herd all of the things. Oh, is it best for us if we want to purchase your books or just become part of your community? Is your website the best way to reach out? 

Eli: [00:35:00] Yes, attachmentnerd.com And I'm launching a new program called The Secure Parent Program. Um, and it's a lifetime access program so that people can also join in my Q and A’s and the support groups that we do and all of that kind of stuff. But it's a six week program to help parents really cultivate a secure relational mindset. Like what are the things that matter, what are the things that go into the f-it bucket?

You know, how do I cultivate this type of relationship? Because whether you're teaching or you're parenting, your primary mission, the most important lesson that you are teaching a child is whether or not you're gonna show up for them. And, uh, if, if we can teach all kids that they're grownups in the world that they can rely on, whoop, we have a very different world.

Olivia: We sure do. We sure do. Uh, I will end on that note, and I just, I cannot say thank you enough for taking the time. Your [00:36:00] schedule is so busy and so full. So I think this conversation will not only help caregivers. I think the teachers I know that I am working with um, it will just benefit the children in those classrooms tremendously. So thank you, Eli. 

Eli: I love that. I love that. Love that, love that and love everything you're doing and you have such dog energy, by the way. I'm, you don't need to work at it. Like, it's just, you're so, it's so clear that you love people and love to connect with them, and it's beautiful. 

Olivia: That's a high compliment from you. Take care, friend. Schoolutions Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me. Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to solutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. 

Thank you to my guest, Eli Harwood, for sharing how we can all nurture securely attached kids.[00:37:00] Remember, as Eli said, “human beings are a we before a me.” Your child's brain is literally being shaped by how you connect with them. So here's my invitation. Tomorrow morning, greet your kid like a dog, greets you. Eyes lit up, arms wide open. Pure enthusiasm. Just try it once and see what happens. Email me at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com to share your stories.

If this episode helped you see your child's or student's behavior in a new light, please share it with another caregiver or teacher who needs to hear it. And don't forget to grab Eli's book, Raising Securely Attached Kids. The link’s in the show notes. Make sure to tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. And stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday where I'll reflect and share connections to what I learned from the guest that week. Until next time, [00:38:00] remember, reach before you teach.