Find Your Inner Calm in the Classroom

In this S5E16 Schoolutions Teaching Strategies conversation, join me with seasoned clinician MJ Murray Vachon, LCSW, as she shares the story of a 14-year-old who mooned a bus—and how nine minutes of curious conversation taught him life skills that lasted decades. Discover why curiosity requires discomfort, how to create calm from the inside out, and the simple "notice" practice that even Notre Dame football players started using in their huddles.

In This Episode You'll Discover:
✨Why classroom belonging starts with curiosity, not compliance
✨How to shift from judgment to curiosity to improve classroom behavior and student engagement
✨The "notice" practice that transforms student motivation and attention in class in under 60 seconds
✨Why low engagement often signals adults need to change, not students
✨ Active learning strategies that inspire students through emotional regulation
✨ How student participation increases when teachers practice co-regulation
✨ Instructional strategies that support the whole child approach

Resources Mentioned: 

• Brené Brown's research on curiosity and vulnerability
• Inner Challenge Mental Wellness Program 
• Creating Midlife Calm Podcast:
  • Ep. 130: 1 Simple Coping Skill To Stop Stress & Anxiety From Spiraling Out Of Control & Derailing Midlife Calm
  •  Ep. 131: 5 Simple Words That Will Transform Stress, Anxiety & Chaos Into Calm, To Make Better Midlife Decisions
  • Ep. 91: Use These 2 Mindfulness Practices To Instantly Increase Focus, Calm & Joy To Ease Stress & Anxiety
  •  Ep. 1: What Is Mental Wellness & One-Pager

CHAPTER MARKERS
0:00 - Introduction: The Power of "Help Me Understand" 
1:00 - Meet MJ Murray Vachon: 50,000+ Therapy Sessions 
3:00 - Brené Brown's Research on Curiosity 
4:00 - Why You Can't Be Curious and Comfortable 
6:00 - The Two-Word Shift: From Judgment to Curiosity 
9:00 - The Bus Mooning Story Begins 
10:00 - The Four-Minute Wait That Changed Everything 
11:00 - Teaching the Do-Over: Life Skills in Action 
13:00 - The 9-Minute Conversation vs. A Day of Emails 
14:00 - Why Repair Matters More Than Punishment 
17:00 - Letting Go: What Education Needs to Release 
19:00 - The Teacher Who Got Retooled at 67 
21:00 - When "Kids Are Lazy" Is Actually Adult Control 
23:00 - Creating Calm from the Inside Out 
25:00 - The "Notice" Practice Explained 
26:00 - Notre Dame Football Players in the Huddle 
28:00 - Co-Regulation: Students Need Us Until 18 
30:00 - Teaching Kids to Notice: Slowing Down to Speed Up 
33:00 - Lightning Round: Best Advice for Teachers 
34:00 - What MJ Believed Then vs. Now 
36:00 - The Podcast Origin Story: Students Made Me Do It 
38:00 - Your Invitation: Try Notice Tomorrow 
39:00 - Outro & Resources

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] What if the key to transforming challenging student behaviors isn't better discipline strategies, but instead learning to hold discomfort long enough to ask a student: Help me understand. In this episode, seasoned clinician MJ Murray Vachon shares the story of a 14-year-old who mooned a bus and how nine minutes of curious conversation taught him life skills that lasted decades.

You'll discover why curiosity requires discomfort, how to create calm from the inside out, and the simple “notice” practice that MJ coached football players around and that they started using in their huddles. Now let's get to the conversation.

This is Schoolutions Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but [00:01:00] practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive.

I am Olivia Wahl, and I am so happy to be in conversation with MJ Murray Vachon, LCSW today. Let me tell you a little bit about MJ. MJ is a seasoned clinician who specializes in adolescence, emerging adulthood and midlife. She has led more than 50,000 therapy sessions and created Inner Challenge. A mental wellness program that has been taught for 21 years at the junior high level, and it's a class that she taught for freshman football players at Notre Dame. 

I had the gift of meeting MJ. In our podcast coaching group, she hosts a podcast called Creating Midlife Calm, where she shares insights on how emotional [00:02:00] regulation, self-awareness, and connections can create calmer classrooms, families, and communities MJ. I have loved getting to know you. I have loved learning about the importance of calm in our lives and the ripple effects it truly has. Um, and then we both connected because we are teachers at heart, and I asked you to be a guest on the podcast because I think your insights are invaluable. So thank you for the taking the time to have this conversation. 

MJ: Oh, you're welcome. That kind of just makes me choked up. So thank you. That was a really beautiful introduction.

Olivia: It's all about you. And so I think, you know, knowing your expertise and also the insights you offer to people in our podcast group, it doesn't matter what type of podcast they host. You are such a beautiful listener, and then you can jump in the chat and offer a nugget of goodness. I call them MJ’s nuggets of goodness.[00:03:00] I'm coining it. Um, and you, you just, I, I can't imagine being someone that has the gift of you as a practitioner and your practice and just the insights you could offer me. So listeners will benefit tremendously. Um. What research or who is a researcher you like to lean on when it comes to all that is involved with your practice?

MJ: Well, I think for today's episode we're gonna talk about curiosity, and the researcher I lean on is Brené Brown, who many of your listeners may know. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: Brene Brown is a professor at the University of Houston in social work. I'm a social worker and she, unlike most social workers, has broken through into the national conversation. And I lean on her research 'cause she does qualitative research. So most people's responses to her research are like, oh yeah, I knew that. Oh, why is she researching that? So we think about [00:04:00] curiosity, what she tells us is what we know, and that is to cultivate curiosity. Something that's inborn at two and three but as life gets, as life does, we can easily lose it. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: To cultivate it, we have to be willing to do something we don't like, and that is hold uncertainty. And when we decide, oh wait, I want to be able to strengthen that muscle, I wanna be able to hold uncertainty because when we hold uncertainty, we're basically saying, oh, I don't know. And that makes us feel vulnerable. That makes us feel uncomfortable. And what her research shows is you can't be curious and comfortable. You can't be curious and certain, and you can't cultivate curiosity if you don't commit to really like working out that muscle of I can hold discomfort. And so I lean on her [00:05:00] for our conversation today because what she does is give us words for what we know. Which then means that we can take what we know and use it more effectively. 

Olivia: So that I'm thinking about, as a coach and just in life with people, I worry so much about the, the, the judgment that we often lean into when we're uncomfortable. Sometimes we get defensive. 

MJ: Yes.

Olivia: And so when it, it, it's that opposite lens, how can we shift and recognize as teachers and just in general in life when we are shifting from that curiosity stance to the judgment and what can we do to reverse it?

MJ: That, that's such an important question. I started out as a clinician and then didn't go into a school till I was probably 15 years - maybe 10 years of being a clinician. And uh, like one of the things that [00:06:00] I really saw was that tension that most of the teachers had, because judgment is important. A lot of teaching is about assessment and figuring it out. And it's the same in therapy. We have to assess our clients. We just can't be like, everybody's wonderful. 

Olivia: It's so true. 

MJ: We have to really assess them. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: And so to me, they're two sides of the same coin. And we really can, and you said the word, if we really go to our body, start with our body. When we're judgy, we're often defensive. And our body, everybody has their own signals, but in judgment, they're pretty similar. Our body is tense, our mind is closed. We usually have a statement like, why are you doing that? Or how could you not understand that? And we are just kind of shut down. And so if we commit to ourself to observe our reaction, that's just our starting point.[00:07:00] And most of us will start with judgment, but we don't have to end there. And so when we really say, oh, I want to cultivate, I want to cultivate curiosity, what we do is look for the signals in our body and we shift and we're like, oh, I'm closed. I'm tense. Ground your feet. Take a breath, get back to your values of, oh, instead of saying, why are you doing this? Say, oh, help me understand why you're doing this. 

Olivia: Okay. 

MJ: And it's that shift. It's, it's basically adding two words to the judgment. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: Instead of pointed open, help me understand why did you, on the field trip, pull your shorts down and moon the bus behind you? I did have that. 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah.

MJ: And that question really opened up a beautiful conversation that gave me a lot more information than I could have [00:08:00] ever gotten if I had just been, you cannot be mooning the bus behind you.

Olivia: It's so, yeah, and it also, this for me speaks a lot to being a parent. 

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: Because our kids know exactly how to push our buttons and to almost sometimes really shift into, not judgment, but just like, come on, and just that overreaction. So when I think about your work and the idea of calm, it is really self-regulation for ourselves.

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: To not let our buttons get pushed, but also to draw boundaries. 

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: So I, I liken the idea of assessment and not having a constant kumbaya, like painting Pollyanna vision to also saying to our kids, look, I am very curious behind what made you make that choice and there's [00:09:00] appropriate and not, and so I'm wondering if following up on that student on the bus, you know, hear I, I wanna hear more. And then what was the next part of the conversation with that student after you got to understand the thinking behind the choice? 

MJ: Well, I took him into the teacher's lounge when we got back. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: And I really didn't know what happened. I knew something terrible happened in the back of the bus, and so I said, probably not your best decision. Help me understand what happened. If you would've asked me a hundred things that happened, I wouldn't have had mooning on the list. 

Olivia: Of course, yeah. 

MJ: And he sat there and I just was very still, and it was very uncomfortable. I did not bail him out and he was probably quiet because that's a great strategy. I can probably, if I'm 14 [00:10:00] outlast, most teachers who are busy. And I literally grounded my feet. I looked at the clock and I thought, I'm not talking for five minutes, and at four minutes he said, well, Justin dared me to moon the bus behind us. I thought I could fall off my chair. I said, oh, so let's talk about, was that an impulse? An impulsive decision or after he challenged you, did you think it through? And then he got curious 'cause I wasn't about getting him in trouble. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: And he said, oh, I guess it was impulsive. And I said, wow. What does it feel like now to have been that impulsive? And he goes out of control. 

Olivia: Wow. 

MJ: And he got a little teary-eyed. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: As seventh grade boys almost always do. He said, yeah, I, I guess I want to be liked, and I [00:11:00] kind of like being the class clown. And I said, well, I said there's an appropriate way for that and there's an inappropriate way. And so we just sat there and talked about what was appropriate, what wasn't appropriate.

He knew. He's 14. And I was just patient. I did, and my rule has always been with students, I won't work harder than you. But I will accompany you as you work hard. I don't give you answers. I don't tell you the rules. You actually know them. And so then I said, now, okay, we, you know, processed it. And he said that was the wrong thing to do. I said, yeah, and then I said, the corrective statement, let's do a do over in your mind. 

I'm gonna be your buddy and I'm gonna challenge you, what would you say? And he said, I would say you do it first. 

Olivia: Wow. [00:12:00] 

MJ: Fantastic response. Gosh. And then I said, okay. I said, now we have another really hard thing to figure out. We have to inform the principal and we have to inform your parents and how would you like to do that? And he said, well, I'd like you to tell 'em. I said, really? Really, you want me to tell on you? You don't wanna tell on yourself? And then I introduced that whole concept. We get to make mistakes. We get to be impulsive. You have a very immature brain, and now even though I've taught this in class, you actually believe it because you went against your values. 

Olivia: I wanna think about this idea of repair because you're, you're really pushing me to question how often do we give students in this rat race of a school day, but also in our homes? 

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: How often do we ensure that repair is done or that it's focused on and not in the moment often like you have to in a school, there has to be the [00:13:00] circle back repair quickly. I think in our homes there, we, we have the gift of time, so we could circle back when there's more calm later and people are out of that fear-based amygdala going bananas, right?

MJ: Yes, yes. 

Olivia: But what you just described was a masterclass in deescalating the situation so there could be calm very, very quickly. And you're also teaching this person this 14-year-old life skills that he will be able to lean on forever. Because that idea, your questioning of, you know who there's a consequence. You're, you're giving him autonomy to say, how do you want to own this? Share what you did. So it wasn't this getting, getting out of jail free card. It was a really in-depth conversation and coaching, personal coaching of here's what happened [00:14:00] and helping him get to the why behind it so he doesn't do it again. And he has tools. I wish every school had a social worker or just a person there to have these conversations with our tweens and teens that are making impulsive decisions all the time. 

MJ: I guess the one thing that the teachers at our school taught me, I had a, I didn't have a classroom. I was in their classroom. So I taught in lots of different teachers’ classrooms who sat at the desk and graded papers, and they absorbed what I was doing and they began to do it. And it is like. It is the exact same as parenting. But you have to get a paper out of them or math equations out of them. And one of the things that I learned, and I didn't know this at the beginning, because I'm a compliant person, I'm a highly organized person, so I'm a natural teacher. But I found that students aren't interested in being compliant or organized in junior high. 

Olivia: No. 

MJ: And I had to change me [00:15:00] in order to connect with them. And I'm not a natural therapist. I'm a natural administrator, so I fell into a profession because I was deeply interested in it. My husband is a psychologist and is a natural therapist, and, but I have enough of it in me that I've learned to do it well. I don't want to, you know, misrepresent myself. I couldn't be an engineer, but I, I, I really find that the skills for good parenting are very similar to good teaching. The conversation I had with that young man took nine minutes. 

Olivia: That's amazing. 

MJ: And then the conversation with the principal took about four, and the conversation with his parents took about 10. If I had done it my old way, emails, blah, blah, blah, it, it would've taken a day. We, you know, we even rehearsed what he would say to his friends. [00:16:00] 'Cause they all knew he was sitting in there getting in trouble with me and guess, you know, there was no demerits because what he learned in 30 minutes, the whole process for him, he was driving out with his parents 30 minutes after he sat with me. That is very hard for a 14-year-old to do. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

MJ: And he did it. And I've, I've run into him twice. This was probably around 2005, and I ran into him once at the mall with his wife, and he gave me a hug and he said, this is the woman when I mooned on the bus.

Olivia: I can't. So, MJ, you're making me think too, you mentioned like what your, how your past self would've responded, and then how you're so glad that you're, you've gained these tools to coach with. Um, what have you had to, when it comes to letting go, what practices do you think we need to let go [00:17:00] of more in our education and our coaching? Um, because I know you and I have talked a lot about slowing down. 

MJ: Yeah. 

Olivia: And how critical that is. 

MJ: I think two things. Um, first of all, I have come to say and believe people are fascinating and they're really different than me. Adolescence starts at 12, ends at 25, and the main question is, who am I and can I love? And when I ask that question, can I love? Most people think, can I find my soulmate? But that's not what Erikson the Developmentalist meant. He meant can I be a person who loves others? And in order to love others, we have to deeply learn that people are not the same as us.

So the main tool in parenting, I used it every morning. I'd come down, I'd say to my kids, good morning Abby. Good morning, Nick. And silently in my head I would say, I don't know you. And just reminding myself [00:18:00] that I didn't know them put my mind in a different state. And so part of what we have to do in letting go. Is understand that we're not expected to know to, to know things forever and ever. And the story that I have that illustrates this, if I can share it 

Olivia: Please

MJ: Was when I ran into one of my high school teachers. 

Olivia: Oh yeah. 

MJ: I was probably 36, 37 and I ran into him at the pool, my 4 and 6-year-old. And he was a very good teacher. And I said, oh, are you still teaching? And he goes, yeah. I said, oh, I'm surprised you didn't retire 'cause all my friends' parents retired at 65. He was 67 and said, no, I've had my best 10 years of teaching. I said, really? He said, yeah, we got a new principal and he sat with me and he said, you seem like you're coasting.

I wanna offer you a choice. You can coast to retirement, or I am happy to retool you so your best 10 years of teaching [00:19:00] are your last. And he honestly said, I didn't know if I wanted to do that. Because letting go of what you know well requires work. And he went home, talked to his wife about it and they're like, man, we could live to be 90. Like go for it. And what he said to me was, he was really struggling because he loved the students in my generation. We were creative, we were funny, we didn't have phones. We, um – like we could engage with teachers without suspicion. And he kept one, he kept longing for those first 20 years of his teaching.

And what he found in retooling was project-based education, which he had not been doing. He'd just been doing tests and normal ed, you know, traditional. And in doing in, in him retooling, he learned to see the [00:20:00] strengths of the current generation. That they were naturally more global. They naturally understood the importance of history and they wanted to see their place in it. And he said, it has totally lit me up. But I remember leaving, going, wow, that's like the secret to life. Like you, you never know it all because things change so quickly that you always have to update. And he gave me a template, and that's what I really think. 

Like my mental wellness program, Inner Challenges, I don't know, 33, 34 years old. I've completely redone it five times. And, uh, like my assessments for someone who comes to my office now, I assess for self-care. How's your nutrition? How's your exercise? How's your sleep? How, how do you manage your tech? What stress coping skill to use? I didn't ask any of those questions the [00:21:00] first 15 years because the culture had an infrastructure.

Olivia: Yes. 

MJ: That assured most of that was in place. 

Olivia: Yes. 

MJ: So I think letting go of what has worked, I don't think people should let go of let go. I think you let go when you can feel you're kind of numb. You're really angry, and I think you let go when it isn't working. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

MJ: Keep, keep the strategies at work. 

Olivia: Yeah.

MJ: But be curious about the ones that don't make you feel so effective anymore. 

Olivia: So you're making me think a lot about the idea of coasting because, um, and this circles right back to the idea of judging. I am tired of hearing adults say kids are lazy. That they're just coasting, they're dialing it in. Uh, because I actually think kids are crazy curious if we get out of their way. Um, I believe a lot of times it's the adults stifling, [00:22:00] um, and not being willing to give up that control of the guided notes or the lecture in the classroom. Um, but it takes a lot of trust that. 12 to what was the adolescence range you said? 25. 12 to 25. Right. Um, that, that, that's a lot of trust that we're, we know impulsivity will happen.

We know mistakes will happen. So I'm then thinking of the belief of the messiness. The messiness in learning, because that really goes to project-based that your, that coach or that high school teacher was talking about. And so if learning is a journey, how do you see the idea of calm, the importance of calm playing into it when we know learning is so, so messy?

MJ: Yes. We are raised in a culture that has given us the message. If we control all of this out here, we will be [00:23:00] calm in here. And just when I say that to anyone like you shook your head. When you hear it, you know that's not possible. And so calm is created from the inside out, and it's done very simply that you just ground your feet, take some breaths and reregulate your central nervous system.

If you're going to, you know, create calm, it means that you have to observe your mind, observe your body. And most of us are not in the moment. We're, I have to do this, I have to do this, I have to do this. One of the things that I've seen with teachers is they know where they're going. They don't really need to ruminate about this and this and this because they got it all figured out.

That the more we can bring our body back to the present. And you know, on my [00:24:00] podcast, I have many episodes that talk about just easy practices. My episodes are 10 minutes in long, you know, length. And I'll, I'll give you some, links for them, but it, it is to realize, oh, just like I have to go to the bathroom while my bladder is full.

Just like I have to drink water when I'm thirsty. I have to reregulate my mind through using breath. And I know that sound crazy, but it isn't. And one of the things I do. Almost in anything I do, and I should have probably done it on this podcast, but I didn't, is I do this simple mindfulness exercise called Notice, where I would walk into my classroom and I would say, good morning, let's do notice. Ground your feet, feel your seat in the chair, and choose to look at something. 

And I want you to take six breaths. Please don't look at another student. That's creepy. And so. You know, they'd look at their hands, they'd look at the clock, [00:25:00] and I would teach them that they had power over their attention because the message they're given is that they don't have power over their mind. And that is a very disempowering place to be. 

And what happened just through sheer whatever, is that the students, when they took the state standards. Said to their teachers, could we do Notice? And the teachers didn't really remember what it was. And they're like, well, what is it? And then a student would lead it. I'm like, Ooh, that's a great idea. Why am I leading this? And then we just took turns. I walk in and I'm like, Hey, Susie Q, it's your time to do notice. You know? And then soon, for a number of years, many of the teachers did it before the class. Because what we're saying is, hey, the hallway's grand. It's fun to see your friends. Now it's time for math. Ground your feet [00:26:00] and use your superpower. And that's what I would say. Use your superpower to bring your mind to the present and take some breaths. And then I could tell when they were drifting off. 

And I could do 20 seconds and say, okay, I can feel the minds going. And then I'd ground their, you know, feet and I'd do it in the middle class. I did it with the Notre Dame football players and they started doing it in the huddle. And I said to one of them, are you not doing something like this in the huddle? He goes, well, I mean, everybody's ready, but this makes us really ready. Great. So what Junior? I believe that mental wellness is a junior high level skill. 

It's that simple. And what they taught me. Is it, it's all practical. It's all doable anywhere - in the grocery store, driving, and so I don't ever really suggest anything. Like take a weekend away. No, I mean, do that for other reasons, not for your mental wellness. Just integrate [00:27:00] it. So when I, you know, get a cup of coffee, I ground my feet and I wait for my coffee and I watch it fill up my cup. You know, before I really got committed to this, 25, 30 years ago, I'd fill up my coffee and I'd like do this, you know, the counters? 

Olivia: Yes. I’m clearing the dish rack. I’m feeding the dog…I'm doing all the things and, 

MJ: And sometimes I, I do that, right? But I try at least five or seven times a day to reregulate myself. And on the days I see clients, I take a break. I walk. When I was at the school, in between classes, I'd walk to the bath, I, I'd walk to the drinking fountain. I'd feel my feet. I take some breaths, take a drink, come back. And so, uou know, part of really creating calm is understanding, oh, it's in here. And I believe when that young man came into the teacher's lounge, he was not open. He was like, but I think I was open. And one of the things neuroscience has taught us just in the [00:28:00] last 10 or 15 years is that emotions are contagious. 

Think about when we have an infant. We are co-regulating. We are co-regulating. We are gazing into their eye and we are turning all in. The mechanism in their brain. A big surprise to teachers, a big surprise to parents is that young people co-regulate with us until they're 18th. That's how immature the brain is. So when he came into that teacher's lounge and I was calm and open, and I tell you, I was super curious 'cause I, I wanted to know what happened. Not just 'cause of curiosity, but I didn't wanna get in trouble. And so like, I think that my gentleness, my waiting, my weight him out helped his mind shift from fear to curious. 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. 

MJ: Because he was afraid. 

I'm, I'm thinking a [00:29:00] lot about the story you just told and how important it is to practice grounding. To practice notice and mj I'll share that. In a high school, I was recently coaching a cadra of teachers and. We were watching, we were noticing if kids could notice without immediately jumping to in their own inferential thinking.

And so they were looking at photographs and we were asking them to notice, observe everything in that photograph and name it, label it. And so this practice of noticing, it forces us to slow down. You and I were ruminating over email, like, how do we teach kids to be curious again? And I think you just really cracked it open in a beautiful way, a very, uh, tangible way of teach kids to notice, to slow down.

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: And name what are you seeing, even if [00:30:00] it's mentally in your head. I am going to now, every morning when I am up, I am going to watch the coffee pouring into my mug. That is a, is such an easy way for me to slow down. 

MJ: Yes. 

Olivia: So you're offering like crazy easy, low hanging fruit that can help us just regulate all day long, um, and monitor, but we have to practice it a lot. Um, so. I have some…

MJ: Think of it just like going to the bathroom. 

Olivia: Yes. Yeah. 

MJ: Like it's something your body needs. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: I mean, I really try to have everything I do be under a minute or two and free. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: And it used to be that this was built into life a hundred years ago. People rode their bike to the farm field or whatever.

Olivia: Right. 

MJ: That and, and so the difference, the, the trade off for not having to like work in a field. Working in the comfort of an office or my home or whatever, is that I have to reregulate my body because my daily life [00:31:00] doesn't do that for me anymore. 

Olivia: Yeah. And if I were in a classroom, especially at middle and high school, I would, I would probably use notice at the beginning of every period 

MJ: Yes.

Olivia: To ground the kids. And then if I were in an elementary thinking of transitioning between subject or content areas. What a beautiful way to help kids practice all day long. That's like seven to eight opportunities right there. For you to facilitate, but then you know darn well as you just said, they're going to ask for it because they felt the benefit. Um, and then I feel like it's hilarious to ask you to do a lightning round, which is not slow. But let, let's jump to it. Okay. All right. So I have some questions for you. Um, what would your best advice be for teachers right now? 

MJ: I would say trust your instinct. Listen to what we talked about in cultivating curiosity and choose one small area to do, and that [00:32:00] might just be, oh. I didn't, I was thinking I was too far into the profession to still be curious. So I'm just going to switch the statements to questions. Trust yourself. 

Olivia: It's so good. 

MJ:Teachers get into it. 'cause they like kids. 

Olivia: They do. 

MJ: They're curious. They do, but it's hard. It's a very hard profession. 

Olivia: Finish this statement. Teachers would be more curious if they stopped… 

MJ: thinking it was innate. 

Olivia: So good. 

MJ: I mean, it's, it's not their fault. That's what we tell them. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: But you know, and we can't ask students to do that, which we don't do. 

Olivia: What are you curious about? Right now?

MJ:  I'm really obsessively curious about how to create comb in a world that is upside down, that is taking us away from our inner voice because the algorithms are leading our mind instead of us leading ourself. 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. 

MJ: And I, I'm very hopeful. I do it all the time, but if people [00:33:00] don't know they have a choice, the culture will lead them. 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. Um, last question. What is something that you believed with your whole heart and now you totally have shifted away from that practice? 

MJ: Probably telling people what to do, in all honesty. I think I, um. I'm a natural leader and I led and, and I, I am a visionary and that's just kind of something I've always done. You know, I sold the most girl scouts and cookies in the state of Indiana. I was, I'm the fifth of six kids, so I wasn't at all, there was no helicopter parenting in my household and I have really talented older siblings, so I was able to observe. And so and I had a speech impediment, a very severe speech impediment, and was in speech therapy from three to eight. 

Olivia: Wow. 

MJ: And that gave me a lot of time to observe and to get [00:34:00] connected to what I felt inside. And we didn't talk about that, but inner voice, teaching kids to listen to their inner voice is what sparks curiosity.

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. 

MJ: And so I think what I don't believe anymore is that uh, I don't need to lead people. I need to collaborate. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. And MJ, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to have this conversation. I look forward every, to every single Monday at 12 o'clock where I know I'll get to see you. And I have to say this group that we are a part of has been so, um, inspiring for me and just to have people to put questions out there like, this isn't working for me, or I need support with this. There's very little judgment in that group. It's all like, here's some ideas. Have you tried this? This worked for me. There's lots of sharing. 

So what [00:35:00] I would say is I sure hope that listeners have a thought partner or a group that they can connect with the way we connect because um, it is in the moments of questioning and feeling like frustration and not able to lean into curiosity, I think of you and I think of the other people in that group that are being really vulnerable to grow. So. 

MJ: And you know, the podcast is the metaphor, but it's a new form of education. And it was actually the football players that said to me, you have to do a podcast. I'm like, I am not doing a podcast. I am 60 years old. I kind of suck at technology. And what they said to me was, you're telling us all the time that we need a life outside of the field and to get curious, do the same. And they kind of shamed me into it. And so…

Olivia: Thank goodness they did. 

MJ: Yeah. [00:36:00] And, and I think for, um, teachers. The most exciting thing about education is it's never the same. 

Olivia: Well, thank you and, um, I am so excited for this conversation to go out in the world because I think it'll be inspiring and you offered so many tools people have to tune into your podcast alongside Maria Shriver, who named it as her must listen for e every week, which is like bananas and amazing all at once.

MJ: I had just decided to not do it anymore. 

Olivia: Oh, come on. 

MJ: No lie. My initial podcast was my mental wellness program I had guests on and it was getting harder to get guests, and so I just said, okay, I think I'm gonna stop. I've done it two or three years. It was on the radio at Notre Dame, the original one, and uh, then I got a call from her office. I'm like, are you kidding me? Okay. That. And, and, and I did say to myself, well, if there's a sign, and I'm not a real woohoo person, I'm [00:37:00] super practical. But I thought, okay, I can be a woohoo person. And so, and then six months later I found the Get More Listeners Academy because I didn't know what I was doing and I answered a cold email.

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

MJ: And ended up in this group of incredibly intelligent, fun thinkers, you know? Kind of think on the side. And I call it, I am, you know, one of the older people and I call it reverse mentoring. That's my whole life. Right now. I'm 65. I just want to hang out with people who are in their thirties and forties who can teach me. 

Check out episodes one to 13. That’s my foundation. My mental wellness program, that's like the first 13. It's called Inner Challenge. I have a masterclass coming out, but the one thing I didn't talk about was just. If you understand what mental wellness is, you can manage a classroom and it's episode one. It's the most listened to um, episode, and it really is helpful for teachers. We used it in the school I was in. It's [00:38:00] really helpful. Just gives you easy words. 

Olivia: Awesome. Well, I'll make sure to tuck all of your goodness into the show notes. 

MJ: Okay, great. 

Olivia: And so people can get in touch and get, reach you and, um, just continue learning from you. Like I get to. 

MJ: Thank you.

Olivia: Every Monday. 

MJ: Thank you.

Olivia: Yeah. Take care MJ. 

MJ: Thanks. Thanks to all the work the teachers are doing. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

MJ: We need you.

Olivia: We do. We sure do. 

MJ: Yeah. 

Schoolutions Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to solutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest and friend, MJ for sharing how we can slow down notice and lean into curiosity. Here's my invitation: start practicing notice tomorrow. At the beginning of each class, period or transition, take just 60 [00:39:00] seconds to have students ground their feet, feel their seat, choose something to look at. And take six breaths. 

Then notice what shifts in your classroom when you give students and yourself this tool seven times a day. Make sure to check out MJ’s podcast as well. Creating Midlife Calm for more practical, under a minute strategies, especially episodes 1 through 13 on mental wellness foundations for educators.

I'd love to hear from you as well. Send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com and let me know how it went. What are you excited to implement and try next. Don't forget to tune in every Monday for the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies that you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. And stay tuned for my bonus episodes every Friday where I'll reflect and share connections to what I learned from the guests that week. Take [00:40:00] care.