Why ALL Kindergarteners NEED a Writers Playshop

Welcome back to Part Two of my S5E22  @schoolutionspodcast conversation with Katie Keier. This episode builds on the foundation from Part One, exploring Katie's unique classroom strategies. We dive into her innovative teaching techniques, including why she creates classrooms that foster belonging and student engagement through choice, materials, and the honoring of every child's story. Katie shares powerful examples of student participation and student motivation, including kindergartners who became environmental advocates and petitioned their school to go plastic-free.

Key Topics:
• Teaching with integrity vs. teaching with fidelity
• Equity in education and inclusive teaching practices
• Student engagement through play-based learning and active learning
• Culturally responsive teaching that honors family partnerships
• Professional development for teachers navigating scripted curricula
• Instructional strategies that support the whole child
• Parent communication and home-school connection
• Documentation and assessment in inclusive classrooms
• Student success through student-centered learning
• Teacher coaching and mentor teachers supporting new teachers

💫Check out Part One 

Researchers & Educators Mentioned:
➡️Vivian Gussin Paley
➡️Katie Kelly (author of From Empathy to Action)

Books & Publications:
➡️Kitchen Dance by Maurie Manning (Katie's go-to picture book for modeling)

Pedagogical Approaches & Organizations:
➡️Reggio Emilia Approach
➡️The Hundred Languages in Ministories (Reggio Emilia concept)
➡️Kennedy Center's CETA (Changing Education Through the Arts) Program

CHAPTERS
0:00 - Welcome to Part 2 
1:00 - Play, Equity, and Access in Writers Playshop 
3:00 - Honoring Every Child's Story 
5:00 - What to Watch and Listen For 
7:00 - Documentation Without Losing Presence 
9:00 - Navigating Required Curricula 
11:00 - Fidelity vs. Integrity ⭐ 
13:00 - Celebrating Children's Work 
15:00 - Arts Integration and the Hundred Languages 
17:00 - Building Beloved Community Through Story 
18:00 - Kindergartners as Environmental Advocates 
21:00 - Must-Read Picture Book: Kitchen Dance 
23:00 - The Bear Story (Katie's Running Journey) 
25:00 - Children Are Our Hope 
26:00 - Closing Reflections

🎧 New episodes every Monday & Friday with bite-sized Wednesday reel bonus content.
📧 Connect: schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com
🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

Next Week: I'm sitting down with Stacey Shubitz to talk about her groundbreaking new book for families navigating IEPs, 504 plans, and disability services.

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Welcome back friends. I'm Olivia Wahl, and this is part two of my conversation with Katie Keier about Writers Playshop. If you have not listened to part one yet, pause this episode, go back. It's below this. That conversation serves as today's foundation. In Part one, Katie introduced us to the whole concept of Writers Playshop, how it was named by a five-year-old, why she uses black pens instead of pencils.

Why she never spells words for children. And her powerful distinction between teaching with fidelity versus teaching with integrity. Today we're going deeper into the heart of why this work matters so much. We're talking about equity, access, the power of honoring every child's story, whether that story is about swimming in a pond, making tamales with grandma, or something funny their dog did.

We're exploring how Writers Playshop becomes an entry point for multilingual learners for children who don't see themselves in scripted [00:01:00] curricula, for families whose cultures and traditions deserve to be celebrated, not just accommodated. Katie's going to share how she documents learning without losing presence with her children, how she navigates required basal programs while maintaining her integrity as a teacher, and how kindergartners – yes - kindergartners have become environmental advocates petitioning their school to go plastic and straw-free. 

We're also going to talk about something that really resonates right now, Katie's reflection on what captures her heart most about this work. And yes, you're finally going to hear Katie's full bear story.  But more than anything, this conversation is about hope. Because in a world where adults are letting us down left and right, Katie reminds us that children given space, materials, choice, and belief in their brilliance will rise to meet the moment they already are. Here's part two of my [00:02:00] conversation with Katie Keier.

This is Scholutions Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive. 

I am Olivia Wahl and I'm so happy to be back with Katie Keier. This is part two of our conversation, Katie, uh, you did such a beautiful job expressing what Writers Playshop the philosophy behind the choices you make for us as listeners. And I asked for part two that we speak more to how Writers Playshop offers opportunities for all learners in our classrooms.

And I've said to you that I see Writers Playshop [00:03:00] as a structure that actually elevates the stories of children and their families. And that's what I love about it. It's just beautiful. So let's start off with, I think of play. I think of equity, and I think of access. When you think of those three words, how do they align with your philosophy of Writers Playshop?

Katie: Absolutely. Thank you. Um. Those, if I had to choose like five words that were at the heart of the work, those would absolutely be three of them. They are just so important. You know, first of all, speaking just to the play, is children have a right to play That is a, a right that they can play. And I look at the children in our classroom and the wide ranges of what they bring to the classroom and they all bring so much, so many, um, so many multiple ways of knowing. And [00:04:00] every child has a story. 

And I think what I love about this work is children know through our Writers Playshop that they're in charge of their own stories, and there's a sense of power that comes with that. You know, power from a, a power for a four and five-year-old is, is huge. And knowing that the stories that we tell in our community build that community and they’re stories about things like, you know, making tamales with their grandmother, their stories about, um going swimming in a pond. They’re stories about, um, just the littlest things about something funny their dog did. And I think when we have so many materials and so many offerings and invitations for them to tell stories, there's an entry point for everyone. 

Olivia: What are you watching and listening for it [00:05:00] during Playshop, but also I'm thinking, you can watch on the playground when they're out with their peers. You can watch during lunchtime the interactions there. So how do you capture what you see them doing and saying? 

Katie: well, I really, from day one, I, I teach them that, you know, that stories live everywhere and that we want to live a writerly life. We wanna live as someone who's looking for stories. So, um, you know, in those other settings like the playground, in the lunchroom, I, you know, I invite them like, whoa, you had something happen! You could come back and make it a story in our Writers Playshop during our Writers Playshop time. I think the biggest thing that I need to remember is that my job is to be curious and to be a listener. To wait. To really let their stories take over. 

Um, I try very hard not to say, oh, is that a [00:06:00] forest? Is that your setting? You know, like putting my agenda in there, what I think it might be. Which, you know, they look at you like, uh, no, that's a planet in outer space. Okay. Um, you know, so really being quiet, you will not hear my voice a whole lot during Writers Playshop. It's more like. I asked them, can you, can you tell me about your story? Can I listen to you read your story to me? Even if it's, you know, something that they're playing in sand. Um, so it's kind of taking my agenda and being, putting it away and being fully present with them. 

And then going back to all that work of Writers Playshop with conferring all of Carl Anderson work, Carl Anderson's work and Matt Glover's work. And then knowing when to like slide that in, like, wow. Can you tell me more about that? Or those conferring questions that we might use with older children in their writing, I'm using that as they're playing out their stories. 

Olivia: Ah, beautiful. Do you take copious notes while you're in conversation with children? I [00:07:00] guess the reason I'm asking that is I always really struggled because I wanted to be present and to be listening, and I felt like if I was documenting everything while a child's talking to me, I'm not present. So I stopped and I would give myself about, gosh, only 30 seconds between when I moved to listen and observe, watch another child to catch my notes up. But how do you manage that? 

Katie: I do the exact same thing. 

Olivia: Okay. 

Katie: I cannot stand there and write while the, it, it like, 'cause immediately the children are distracted and they're like, well, what you ready? What are you doing? Yeah. Um, I do a lot of videos. Sometimes I'll do like, oh, can I take a video? And sometimes I'll just quietly start it as they're telling. Um, depending on the child, if I know that they're gonna be like, you must take a video of me. You know, I might just do it more. Um, you know, on the, on the sly, um, I do a lot of videos, a lot of photos, and then I take time, you know, during, between meeting with children or [00:08:00] oftentimes over my lunchtime because it happens right after, and I know it's so fresh in my mind. And I can sit there and, and jot down my documentation and my notes then. 

Olivia: Yeah, that is validating for me. 'cause I always felt guilty that if someone walked by and saw me just on the rug with kids, it would be discounted. But I knew how valuable it was. So, let's then pivot a little bit or segue to, I mean, it's really hard when we believe in something so deeply and then the world of education swings one way or swings the other, and questions practices that we may know are really, really good for kids. So how do you reconcile? What do you say if you have an administrator that questions the value of Playshop or a colleague? Or a caregiver. I mean, there's movement in every different, uh, area of our [00:09:00] world right now pushing. 

Katie: Right, right. Um, so I do, um, I am part of a district that has a, um, required basal textbook series. Um, and what I, I make sure that I know the standards and I know what I need to be teaching and I know what children have to learn.

I that like, I keep that at my forefront. But what's even more important is providing that time and space and choice for Writers Playshop. So I know what I need to teach enough to make sure that I am meeting those standards through my teaching and through my small groups and my one-on-one and my meeting with writers during Writers Playshop, and I can explain that and explain what I'm doing and have research that supports what I'm doing if I'm questioned. 

I am fortunate that I do have an administration [00:10:00] that supports what I do and knows that what I do shows results. Children, children achieve, children learn how to read and write, and um, and I think with caregivers and families, you know the important thing is making sure that they're informed and that they, they know what I'm doing and why I am doing and all that research in play and how I'm doing kind of a both and approach that I'm looking at the lesson that is in our series, and here's what I need to teach and this is how I'm teaching that. This is how I'm meeting those objectives through my focus lesson in Writers Playshop or my conferencing with children during Writers Playshop, 

Olivia: Katie. Um, at the end of each session at NCTE, I would pause and I had a section in the back of my notebook I called big Ideas that I want to Carry Forward. And I had a phrase [00:11:00] that you said that I think about all the time, and you said, fidelity is very different than integrity. I want everyone to hear you explain the difference between the two because I am overhearing, we have to teach with fidelity. You, you have such a beautiful reframe. Will you share that? 

Katie: Absolutely. Um, you know, I think first of all, we need to ask who do we have fidelity to? Do we have fidelity to a program or to children? And I mean, I, I have fidelity to children that, that's my job. Teaching with integrity means that I am meeting the standards, I am teaching the objectives, and I'm doing it in a way that is responsive and appropriate for the children, the human beings that are in my classroom. 

Because the people that are writing these textbooks, while they are pulling on research and they, you know, um they are definitely planning out lessons that, um, are a good starting [00:12:00] point, a good framework, they don't know the 20, 30 children that are in front of you at that moment. And the same lesson that I did today with my children looked very different than the same lesson I did last year because the human beings are different. Is the end result the same? Absolutely. And the, the objectives, is the end objective the same? Yes. But I need to approach it in different ways. So teaching with integrity to me is keeping those objectives and the standards - those are non-negotiable. But I am being responsive and teaching children. 

Olivia: I love the idea of being responsive and teaching children, and I also very much appreciate that you are welcoming caregivers and to be part of this process. So I think often, you know, we need to celebrate what our children are doing. In beautiful ways. Would you just bring forth for [00:13:00] us, how do you celebrate your children's Writers Playshop pieces with arts and, um, the Reggio Emilia practices? How do you celebrate their work?

Katie: Well, um, we do, uh, lots of documentation and displays in our, in our school, um, in our, you know, in our hallway, the hallway bulletin boards. As well I take tons of photos and the photos are up on the walls in our classroom. Um, like photos of lots of the stories that they've built with blocks are displayed in the block area.

I also have a large journal that I will put photos of children's stories and write down what their story was, um, so that they can kind of look back and remind themselves and remember these stories. I also, um do, we invite families in? We're actually having a play date tomorrow where families can come into our classroom [00:14:00 And they can create stories with their families so children can show their their families, you know, how we use loose parts and you know, how we make stories in the sand table and the blocks, and then how we take those stories and put them into books so they can live forever.

That, once we start doing those author celebrations and inviting families in, I see a huge migration over to a more traditional book, um, because children want to have their story live forever. Those are the words I say, you know, if you put that story in a book. It can live forever. So I might snap a picture, I'll print it the next day. The child will remember what their story was and they'll write it down in a book. Or oftentimes they'll do the book right there as they're making the story. They might be playing a bit and then moving over into the book, um, to, to, you know, have them live forever. And definitely at the end of every Writers Playshop time, a time where they're sharing room with each other. [00:15:00] So I might put a video I took of the child telling a story or a photo up on the whiteboard and the children will tell the story or they'll read the book, um, in more of a traditional like author's chair. 

Olivia: Oh, beautiful. What about the arts integration and background work you've done? 

Katie: Um, so I was very fortunate to be at a, um, a public school that was, that had a partnership with the Kennedy Center called CETA - Changing Education through the Arts. And we had a lot of teaching artists that would come in and spend time in our classrooms from puppet puppetry to drama. And I really take that along with the work I've done with Reggio Emilia and the idea of the Hundred Languages and that children can express themselves in many, many different ways and through different materials and the importance of materials.

Um, and those kind of go into, um, you know, [00:16:00] into our, our Writers Playshop every day with the, the aesthetics, with how the materials are set up, that they're easily accessible and they're, they're set up in a beautiful way because children deserve that. They deserve to have beauty in their lives and, you know, beauty in their classroom. And, um and also taking that, the, the idea that stories can be told with drama that, you know, Vivian Gussin Paley's work with oral storytelling. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Katie: We do that every day. We have two storytellers of the day that, that dictate a story. I read it and they choose audience members to act it out. So that also layers in with that storytelling piece. So, um, and you know, that is another piece that, that really speaks to equity and agency is, you know all stories are honored. No story is too small or too big. And children bring so many beautiful things from their homes and their, their culture. Um, [00:17:00] I, I love hearing them bringing in stories about their family and their pets and their cultures. 'cause it, it just makes that, that community, that beloved community so much stronger. You know 'cause it's, it's through stories that, that our voices are heard, that we know that our ideas matter. You know, it's what gives us strength to, to keep going. 

Olivia: Yeah, and it also, I, I think when we talk about a culture of learning and just celebrating, um, what our children are bringing, it makes for such a rich environment for our children to see that everyone is different, families are all different, and it's perfectly okay. You know, come as you are and. So I, I think I, I've often wanted to ask you the question, so I'm just gonna do it. In all of your years of teaching, what, looking back now, what would you say has captured your heart the most? [00:18:00] Because this is heart work. It is, It's not easy work. You invest a lot of time in creating this beauty for your children. What hits your heart the most though, about working with kindergartners in general? 

Katie: Is hearing their strong, brave voices. They just never cease to amaze me. Um, you know, from a, a little girl, uh, the second week of school she saw some trash on the playground and made a poster with it still hangs out our door. We have to take care of the earth. We have to pick up trash. And, um, another group of kindergartners that I have, one of the children had learned about, um, sea turtles and trash in the ocean, and they petitioned our school to become one of the plastic and straw-free schools, um, in the county. Uh, and they [00:19:00] wrote letters and they wrote posters, and they put 'em up in the cafeteria.

And, you know, that's the power of this work is that everyone can contribute to that and they can, they know that their voices can be heard and that their voices are important and that they have things to say. They, they, they see themselves as capable and confident out of, you know, a belief that that's who we are in this classroom.

And that struggle is something to be celebrated that, you know, ooh, if we work really hard on something, um, we made these amazing research posters the kids did last year, and one of my little girls, um wanted to stay in for recess to finish it. And I said, sure. And she was researching horses and it was amazing. And at the end she said, Miss Katie was so hard and so wonderful. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, that's, feel it. The power of kindergartners, they're just - they're brilliant human beings. [00:20:00] Exactly how they are in their five and 6-year-old ways. It's, I love it. 

Olivia: Well, and, and we see a lot of apathy as kids get older and with adults too these days. And I was, uh, talking or in conversation with Katie Kelly yesterday, and she has the brilliant book, empathy, uh, (From) Empathy to Action. And she said the words empathy is the opposite of apathy. And so what you are doing is fostering this beautiful empathy within your children, um, and celebrating story at the same time. I have to ask you before I let you go, is there a picture book, is there a resource that you circle back to? It's impossible for you to name this one, but I'm still gonna ask you to, is there something you go back to over and over and over that you use as a model with kids? 

Katie: I will tell you there is one that every year, it just, it is, I, I'm on maybe my third or fourth copy of it. Um, it's called [00:21:00] Kitchen Dance. Of Kitchen Dance. It is the most beautiful, it is a simple story about two little kids who hear their mom and dad in the kitchen as they're cleaning up dishes and they all dance. They, they sneak out and look and they family, their moms and dad, their mom and dad pulled them in and they all dance and then they put them back to bed. And it's just, it's a story I think everyone can relate to this little family, like a special family moment. And that book is just one we keep going back to for so much, so much in our writing and in our, in our Writers Playshop and our meeting. 

Olivia: I love that, that's your book, Katie? Yeah. I love it. Oh, that's such a good book. And the, the idea too, I, that's how I used to teach children to draw, um, characters from behind. Yes. Because the children are peeking in on their parents and it's so rare. It's, it's such a, oh, that's a great small moment story. 

Katie: It's wonderful. [00:22:00] It’s such a good book.

Olivia: It's good. And I think too, we will end on the note that it is absolutely critical that as adults we have our buckets being filled and have a way to nurture our own hobbies. I've learned about you - you are a runner and you are a for realz runner, Katie, you're not just like jogging around the block. You are a runner. So you know, talk about how running is therapy for you, but also I'm going to beg of you in part one, you alluded to the story of the bear, but let's end with the story of the bear. Okay. So talk running and the bear. 

Katie: Yeah. Yes. I, I am a runner, I'm a trail runner. I do ultras, which are, um, events over 26 miles. So from, from 50 miles to a hundred miles, I've done a 200 miler. My, um, it is my happy place being in the mountains on the trails. Um, it [00:23:00] is a time that I am a hundred percent present with the beauty of nature, with the what my body can do. It takes me being very brave, um, running through the evenings, overnight, um, you know, running into animals that you might not expect to see. Um, and I tell stories about my running all the time in the classroom.

Um, you know, because children need to be brave. But people need to be brave too. And teachers need to be very, very brave in the world we're in right now to do this important work. Um, so my, my bear story is a true story. Um, and it's how I've started my Writers Playshop the last several years. And it's, um, you know, I just say one day I was running on a trail. It was really quiet and I could, all of a sudden I heard this ch-ch-ch and I stopped and I looked and right in front of me was a giant bear. And do you know what I did? I went bear-bear, [00:24:00] bear-bear. And the bear looked at me and ran off into the woods and I took a deep breath and I kept on running. The end!

Katie: True story. Bear. Bear. 

Olivia: And I lived to tell the story, 

Katie: And I lived to tell about it. And.. 

Olivia: Oh, Katie!

 Katie: Kids just love that story. They love to act it out and…So that's my story.

Olivia: It's so, it's so good. And Katie, I cannot tell you from the moment. I had the privilege. I've, I've followed you for a very long time, and your writing is just so inspiring. I will tuck links to all of your goodness in the show notes. But you are, you're doing the, the work and it is hard. Um, but it's heart work. And I truly believe if we stay this course, we are nurturing a, a generation of [00:25:00] kids that will care and stand up for what is right. I have lost so much faith in grownups right now. Um, but I truly believe that our kids care. We just have to give them the space to have their voices be elevated. Um, so you're my hope and they’re my hope.

Katie: Thank you. Oh, they, it's, you know, they are brilliant. They're capable and they can do so many great things. They're my joy. I can't imagine not walking into that classroom every day.

Olivia: It's what keeps us going. So thank you so much. Take care. 

Katie: Thank you.

Olivia: Okay. I wanna just sit with the words of one of Katie's kindergartners. It was so hard and so wonderful that kindergartner researching horses, choosing to stay in from recess, pouring her heart into a poster. She named exactly what meaningful work can feel like, and she could only do that because Katie created a classroom where struggle is [00:26:00] celebrated, where effort is honored and where the point isn't perfection, it's purpose.

That's the world Writers Playshop creates. I want you to think about something Katie said earlier in this conversation. Who do we have fidelity to? Do we have fidelity to a program or to children? Because here's the truth, teaching with integrity does meet standards. It does prepare children for assessments, but it does something else too…it prepares children to be advocates, storytellers, change makers, to know their voices matter, to see themselves as capable exactly as they are. That's not extra. That's not a nice to have. That's the whole point. If you want to connect with Katie, I've linked everything in the show notes, her blog, her writing for NCTE, all the resources we mentioned from Katie Wood Ray, Matt Glover, Vivian Gussin Paley, the Reggio Emilia approach. All of it. 

Now, [00:27:00] next week, I have something completely different, but equally essential. I'm sitting down with Stacey Shubitz to talk about her groundbreaking new book for families Navigating IEPs, 504 plans and disability services. This conversation is for teacher supporting families and for parents in the trenches. We're talking about reframing evaluations as finding the key to unlock learning, about protecting your relationships when therapy schedules take over your calendar, about cultivating joy beyond the appointments and paperwork. It's honest, it's practical. It's going to give you language you need and permission you didn't know you were even seeking. Make sure you've subscribed so you don't miss it. And until then, go be curious. Go listen to children's stories. Go believe in their brilliance. And maybe just maybe go get yourself some black pens and loose parts. See you next week.[00:28:00] 

Schoolutions Teaching Strategies is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcast or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Katie Kayer, for offer Your Fresh Way to reframe our purpose, teaching with integrity to our children and offering us a way to do that through Writers Playshop.

And please, if this conversation resonated with you, share it. Send it to a colleague who's questioning whether play-based learning can really work. Send it to that administrator who needs to hear about integrity versus fidelity. Send it to a parent who's worried their child is behind, because stories live everywhere and every child deserves a classroom where their stories matter.

Send me an email at [00:29:00] schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com and let me know how it went. What are you excited to try next? Don't forget to tune in every Monday and Friday for part one and part two of my guest conversations with the best research-backed coaching and teaching strategies that you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care.

And look for your 60-second bite-sized piece of learning on Wednesdays from our conversation that you can share with a colleague. Take care and thank you for forever getting better with me. See you next week.