NYC Kindergarteners Are Being Diagnosed with Play Deprivation & We Can Change It

Part One of my S5E26 ⁨@schoolutionspodcast⁩ conversation explores the current state of kindergarten education, questioning what a typical kindergarten day looks like and what it should be. Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell explore the neuroscience of play, highlighting the impacts of scripted curricula on young learners and emphasizing that play deprivation is a measurable issue that needs to be addressed for healthy child development.

This discussion offers valuable insights for parents and teachers alike, focusing on childhood and mental health in early learning environments.

🧠 What you'll learn in this episode:
💫Why scripted curricula are causing real, measurable harm to young children — and who profits from it
💫What neuroscience reveals about active learning vs. worksheets and skill-and-drill instruction
💫How play deprivation shows up in classrooms as anger, withdrawal, and low engagement
💫What Denmark's forest schools and empathy model can teach us about inclusive classrooms and student success
💫Why "fidelity to the curriculum" must be replaced with fidelity to the learner — a cornerstone of culturally responsive teaching and equity in education
💫What Beverly and Nancy's proposal to NYC's Mayor and education transition team actually recommends

Some episode mentions & resources:
➡️Center on the Developing Child at Harvard University
➡️Lillian Dropkin Weber Papers
➡️Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
➡️Denmark's forest school model
➡️Bank Street Teaching Kindergarten Conference, March 13-14, 2026

Don't miss the continuation of this powerful conversation! In Part 2,  where Beverly and Nancy get specific. What are they actually asking for? What does their proposal say, and what can teachers do right now, even inside the constraints of a scripted school day? This is behind-the-scenes work that is giving me, and I hope it gives you, real grounded hope.

📑 Chapters
0:00 — Introduction: What Should Kindergarten Look Like?
2:00 — Meet Dr. Beverly Falk & Dr. Nancy Cardwell
3:00 — Research That Grounds Play-Based Learning
5:00 — What a Typical Kindergarten Day Looks Like NOW (vs. What It Should)
7:30 — The Neuroscience of Play: How the Brain Actually Learns
10:00 — Worksheets vs. Hands-On Learning: The Real Data
11:30 — 95% of Brain Architecture Built by Age 5
13:00 — Fidelity to Children vs. Fidelity to Curriculum
14:00 — The Cost of Scripted Curricula — Literally
16:30 — Denmark's Empathy & Forest School Model
20:30 — What NYC Schools Could Borrow Tomorrow
22:00 — Lightning Round: Honest Takes on Early Childhood Today
25:00 — What Gives Beverly & Nancy Hope Right Now
25:45 — Preview of Part 2: The Proposal for NYC's Mayor

🎧 New episodes every Monday & Friday with bite-sized Wednesday reel bonus content.
📧 Connect: schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com
🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Happy Monday everyone. I am wrapping the month of February with this question. What does a typical kindergarten day look like right now, and what should it look like? Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell join me to unpack the neuroscience of play. We expose the damage of scripted curricula on our youngest learners, and they make the case that play deprivation is real. It's measurable, and it has to stop. Alright, here's my Part One conversation with Beverly and Nancy.

Olivia: This is Schoolutions Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive.[00:01:00] 

I am Olivia Wahl, and I am honored to have Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell on the podcast today. Let me tell you a little bit about Beverly and Nancy. Dr. Beverly Falk is director of the High Quality Early Learning Project, and professor and director Emerita of the Graduate Programs in Early Childhood Education at CCNY School of Education.

Her career has included work as a classroom teacher, an early childcare center director, public school founder and principal, district administrator, researcher, and consultant. Dr. Nancy Cardwell is an expert in early childhood development and a faculty member at CCNY's renowned School of Education.

Nancy's teaching service and research focus on creating experience-based content rich learning environments that are culturally sustaining racially, linguistically and [00:02:00] economically inclusive. Beverly and Nancy, you are here today to share about a topic that is very near and dear to my heart: Protecting play for our youngest children in public schools, you are going to illuminate a proposal that you have worked with a brilliant team to draft and present to Mayor Mamdani and his education transition team, it is such an honor to host this conversation. Welcome, welcome, welcome. 

Beverly: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here.

Nancy: Pleasure to be here. Thank you. 

Olivia: Yes. Uh, let's jump in with a nugget of research from both of you who is a researcher or a piece of research that grounds your belief in play-based learning for children. Beverly, do you wanna start us off? 

Beverly: Um, I have been powerfully influenced by the research that's [00:03:00] coming out from neuroscience about how people learn, particularly how young people learn, and the Harvard Center on the Developing Child is a wonderful resource that offers information that's very accessible to the general public.

Olivia: Wonderful. Nancy, how about you? 

Nancy: So I have some oldies and goodies. I totally agree with what Beverly said, um, about the neuroscience research, um, outta the Harvard Center on the Developing Child. It's really important, but I think the two pieces for me, um, in my work that ground me are Lillian Weber's, um, work in terms of really articulating the relationships between teachers and children. Where you are, you're really promoting inquiry. You're noticing what the children are doing, [00:04:00] you're following after with with all kinds of opportunities for them to explore and learn more. And, um, Mary Helen Immordino-Yang. And her work on affective neuroscience, which speaks to the, the centrality of feelings for, um, cognitive development.

Olivia: Yeah. Well, I wanna let listeners know because I have so many people that send me emails to say thank you for the linked show notes. They print them out, they have them, but people also listen and take copious notes. So listeners, I've got you covered. I will include links to all of these resources in the show notes. Beverly, I'd love to have you start us off. Would you paint a picture of what a typical kindergarten day looks like now versus what it should look like or what we would hope it would look like? 

Beverly: Yes. Well, kindergartens are, in [00:05:00] our schools today are not the gardens of joy and inquiry and engagement that they were at other times in our history, both in this country and in other countries. There are mandated scripted curricula uh, in the public schools in New York City, and I believe probably in other places around the country that are requiring children to sit for extended periods of time that are focusing on isolated skill development, around literacy, around reading and math and, um, where children are not being allowed to [00:06:00] engage in projects, problem solving.

What the learning that is often referred to as play um, that is really the root of, and the foundation for what real learning for young children is about. So it, um, saddens us and resolves us to try to do something to help people understand that the way the school day is designed currently for most schools and it's being enforced by the school systems is not supporting children's optimal learning and development. 

Olivia: It's not, and so I mean it, this is not just teachers shouting from the rooftops that this needs to [00:07:00] change. It is caregivers, it is neuroscientists, it is doctors, and it's actually deemed play deprivation. So Nancy, could you illuminate some of that neuroscience work or the research that everyone is in agreement around, uh, and that we need to just uplift so more people know about it, 

Nancy: So, sure. Um, so we hear a lot in the, in the field about, you know, the science of reading and the science of this, and the science of that. But the truth of the matter is, is that we have learned in the last 15 years how the brain actually works, right? We can take images of, of our brains while we're solving problems, and they find that when, when humans of all ages counter, um, problems to [00:08:00] solve that are hands-on more areas of the brain light up by far than when they're given just an abstracted version of it. 

And with young children, this is particularly significant because what we're doing is we are really laying the foundation of all the neural pathways. So what they're doing in early childhood is they're learning how to learn. They're learning how to control their bodies. They're learning how to regulate their emotions, and that comes with consistent practice. And all of that is developed through play. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: That you know that they, they're able to practice at different timeframes what they can do. And the more they play, the more they practice, the more they are building those neural networks that support the learning [00:09:00] that we really want to see. 

Olivia: Hmm. 

Nancy: And so, um, so for example, in current kindergarten classrooms, there's a lot of worksheets. And I had a student not too long ago talk about how she's working with her five-year-olds on compound words, but they can't read, right? And so that disconnect and she's struggling with their engagement. Well, of course you are. And you know, but if you focus on what children are interested in and use games and, you know, skill building games in the classroom, they will practice all of those skills that you want them to learn in reading, in math, in whatever content area. Far more than they will practice with a workbook and worksheets. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: You know, direct hands-on experiences, multisensory, [00:10:00] sensory experiences, those are the things that trigger powerful lasting learning. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

Nancy: Whereas the other skill and drill with worksheets. That's only promoting memorization. 

Olivia: It is, and it's decontextualized as well. That's why it's so ineffective. Beverly, what were you dying to say? 

Beverly: Well, I, that often the science of reading is referred to because people have found out through MRIs of the brain that when there is phonetic instruction, there's a certain area of the brain that does light up, but that is just one limited part of what reading and learning is all about. The science of learning tells us that the brain lights up when children are engaged in active learning, when they're engaged in something that's [00:11:00] interesting, when there's something that's meaningful and when there is movement, and then more parts of the brain light up to a greater degree.

And all of this is said in the context that in the early years of life, 95% of brain architecture is constructed through the age of five at least. And it continues to grow, of course, throughout our lifetime. But the foundation is laid in those early years. And as my colleague and one of my intellectual mentors, Jack Shonkoff, who was the director of the Harvard Center on the Developing Child, used to say, um, when he talked about 95% of the brain architecture being built, is that yes, the brain continues to grow, but it's easier to build it right the first time than to have to do renovations.

Olivia: [00:12:00] Yes. Oh, well said. I, I, I want listeners to understand too. See, I'm coming from a long time ago where I was, I had the gift of teaching kindergarten and where it was a garden and we had copious amounts of play throughout the day. All of my kindergartners were bilingual, some multilingual, and the only, the best way, not the only way, but the best way we communicated and with each other was through play.

There was mimicking, there was movement, uh, and there's so much said without words through play, and that's where my biggest concern with children being at desks or sit just sitting still for so long during a day, it, it doesn't make sense that we are doing all of this social emotional learning work for our children, and yet we are not giving them time to move [00:13:00] throughout the day and play where we could save some money with the programs we're investing in.

And so I guess that's something else I wanted to go speak to. I'm not jaded as a human, but I often do wonder when initiatives are being rolled out, who is benefiting from this? And I just interviewed Katie Keier. Um, she's a brilliant kindergarten teacher in Washington DC and she said very clearly, my fidelity is to children. I teach with integrity. I teach to standards, I teach to all of the objectives, and yet it's done with integrity and responsiveness because my fidelity is to my children. So why should we look at money? Why should we be following the dollars? Beverly, could you speak to that? 

Beverly: Well, that's a really important point. [00:14:00] Um, our school systems are spending billions of dollars buying these curricula that not only have been mandated, but they're also scripted so that teachers are required to actually follow the words in a script. When they're engaging with young children. And what does that mean? That means that they can't really, and people promoting this talk about fidelity to the curriculum as being the way to achieve rigor and high standards. And as you point out, what about fidelity to the children, to the children's questions, to the children's interests, to the children’s context to their languages, their cultures, their backgrounds, um, without that is what sparks the brain to create more neural [00:15:00] connections when you're engaging with things that are in the child’s realm of interest and experience and context. 

So, um, this has happened before, I was just reading a talk that, um, one of my mentors, Linda Darling-Hammond, and gave about a decade ago where she was referring to, um, this pendulum swing of, um, back between this kind of technical view of teaching and the de-skilling of teachers to follow, uh, products that are sold to the schools versus the kind of, uh, engagement and responsiveness to children that we care about as educators. Um, it's been pulled back before, and we have to keep speaking up and [00:16:00] explaining and educating people about the damage that it can do, and more importantly, the, the, the loss of growth and development that it's causing, um, so that we can move forward to help our children. 

Olivia: Nancy, I, I know that we've thought through about Denmark as a model and I would love for you to share with listeners how, why is Denmark a model, uh, with the empathy work that they're doing, as well as watching each other with children in play, the way that they respond, the way they vibe, and have to compromise a million times in one interaction. Would you illuminate some of that for us?

Nancy: I think that one of the things that to sort of pick up, you know, on the idea of money, right? Where we [00:17:00] spend our money. Budgets are narratives. They’re stories of values. They’re stories about what's of value, who's of value. And um, you know, one of the early questions around play has always been who gets to play? Play is never a question. For the children of wealthy parents, the assumption is they come with all they need. You know, somehow children from, you know, families with less money, somehow they don't have time to play. Right? But when we think about the model in Denmark, they're thinking about the whole person.

It's not just about the technical acquisition of knowledge, it's not about acquiring knowledge, it's about developing understanding. And so one of the things that I think about a lot are the forest [00:18:00] schools and this idea about empathy and their emphasis on it. But they actually, while they have the curriculum from six to 16, they actually start much earlier with very young children and it's all in how they interact with each other, the responsiveness in the moment. And so when children are in need of something, um, they figure out how to respond to them. But what's striking is that in the forest schools, you don't really see a lot of interaction between the adults and the children.

The, the adults are there at the boundaries, but the children are interacting with themselves, right. Pushing themselves, stretching themselves, and stretching each other. And in the forest, you never do the same thing twice. So you can climb the same tree, but [00:19:00] every time you climb it, it's a different pathway.

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

Nancy: Right. You can work with the ropes, but every time you're on it, it's a different kind of one. And everybody has a role, right? That they all, that they can all play to support each other, but that can only happen in context where there is enough for everyone to have more than one thing at a time where there's abundance.

In schools that are abundantly funded, you'll notice that children tend to be more relaxed and calm, and so are their teachers because you're not feeling so stressed if they mess up that paper. That's my last one, right? That they can, that there's more, oh, you made a mistake, you need another chance, giving another try. And so it's about developing empathy for yourself. And with [00:20:00] others. And empathy is really based on experience. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: Right. So you can't say, oh yes, I understand how you feel if you haven't had that experience. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

Nancy: Right? 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Nancy: So there is, there is this back and forth and it's a mutual relationship, but in Denmark, the adults are there as resources. But they're highly educated, well prepared because they believe that the learning is not in the text or in the prepackaged curriculum, it's in the human beings that are interacting informed by texts, right. And so when your guest talked about teaching with fidelity to her children – You know, Beverly and I were at a research conference some years back and they were talking about, you know, well, you know, fidelity [00:21:00] to the program and we were sitting there, you know, misbehaving and saying, you know, what about fidelity to the learner?

Like, where's the learner in that? And I think that, um, undergirding all of the things that our group is working on is really shifting that focus from the fidelity to the corporations who create these curricula to having fidelity to the learners and to the children. 

Olivia: I want to pause our conversation here with part one. We're going to end with a lightning round, and I'm excited because you've already alluded to what's coming in part two, we're going to talk all about this proposal that you have very specific, thought out ideas of what needs to happen, and I think this is not just a model for New York City Public Schools. I think that listeners will be able to take what you have done and take it on. I tried it [00:22:00] everywhere, so I'm very excited. Here we go with lightning round. First question, one word to describe New York City's current early childhood approach. 

Beverly: Well, it's actually two words, not child-centered.

Nancy: Constrained. 

Olivia: If we were eliminating one thing from kindergarten classes tomorrow, what would it be?

Beverly: Scripted curricula. 

Nancy: And I'd add to that. Um, worksheets replaced with hands on activities and skill-building games. 

Olivia: I am not supposed to get excited during light and round 'cause it's distracting, but I agree. Um, can you give us a quick example of play deprivation that you've actually seen and witnessed firsthand?

Beverly: A special needs [00:23:00] kindergarten class where everyone was sitting at a desk on a computer. 

Nancy: Um, for me it's, um children in small classrooms with, um, really intense emotions, frustration, anger, crying, but really in a way that where they're inconsolable, um, and they're angry and they're upset, and some withdraw and become depressed.

Olivia: I'm seeing it everywhere in all of the schools I'm working. I am seeing this live, and there is a way to stop this. So, um, and with that said, um, thinking of Denmark's empathy model, Nancy, that you just spoke to, what is something that New York City could do tomorrow in schools that borrows from that model?

Nancy: Um, for me, um, kindness. [00:24:00] That teachers, principals, principals and administrators are kind to the teachers in their schools that they support teachers being kind to the children and the families that they work with. 

Olivia: I love it. Beverly, how about you?

Beverly: Trust that people are born wired to learn and to provide rich environment, uh, rich opportunities in the classroom experiences for that learning to happen. 

Olivia: All right, let's end lightening round in this part one conversation with what gives each of you hope right now. 

Nancy: Well, 

Beverly: I think people speaking up, um, speaking up and trying to share information. And, um, both about education, but [00:25:00] also about democracy and, um, that that is our obligation and it is our only hope for how to improve lives in the future.

Olivia: Yeah. Nancy, how about you? 

Nancy: For me, it's the children. You know, I look at them and it's - they just invigorate me to go another round. 

Olivia: Yeah, same. Keep showing up, keep going. 

Nancy: That's right. They, they're there. 

Olivia: They're there. So we better keep showing up for them. Yeah. Thank you both of you so much. Part two of our conversation, you are going to outline your proposal that you plan to present, and I think it will be amazing for listeners to hear from you. Thank you. 

Nancy: Thank you. 

Beverly: 

Olivia: That's a wrap on part one. Beverly and Nancy have laid the foundation, the research, the neuroscience, the why behind protecting play. In [00:26:00] part two, they are pulling back the curtain on the proposal they'll be bringing directly to New York City's Mayor Mamdani and his education transition team. It is specific, it's actionable, and honestly, it gave me so much hope. Don't miss it.