The Kindergarten Proposal NYC's Mayor Must Hear

Welcome back to Part Two of my S5E26 @schoolutionspodcast conversation with Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell.

🧠 What you'll learn in this episode:
💫The exact asks inside Beverly and Nancy's proposal and why Massachusetts and Connecticut have already led the way
💫How play-based learning actually builds the foundation children need to detect AI misinformation and fake news
💫What culturally responsive teaching looks like when it's grounded in community
💫Why assessment must move beyond standardized tests toward performance-based, observation-driven documentation
💫What student engagement looks like when children have choice, voice, and real problems to solve
💫Why screen time and AI need urgent guardrails and how play deprivation leaves children more vulnerable to misinformation
💫How school culture, classroom belonging, and trauma-informed approaches create the emotional steadiness children need to learn

📎 Resources:
➡️NYCPS Proposal to Support Play
➡️High Quality Early Learning Project                                                          ➡️Investigating Choice Time by Renée Dinnerstein
➡️Bronx Community Charter School Bronx River Study
➡️State resolutions supporting play-based learning
➡️NYC Mayor Mamdani's Education Transition Team

💫Check out Part One

📑 Chapters
0:00 — Welcome Back: What Part 2 Covers
2:00 — Why This Mayor, Why Now? The Story Behind the Proposal
3:30 — States Leading the Way
5:00 — The Equity Case: Why Rich Learning Must Be for ALL Children
6:30 — Starting the Day with Choice Time
8:00 — Play as a Tool for Democracy and Critical Thinking
9:00 — Why the Team Has Hope in NYC's New Mayor
11:00 — The High Quality Early Learning Project
13:00 — The Bronx River Study
15:30 — The Actual Proposal: Beverly Breaks Down the Asks
16:30 — The Science of Reading Has Been Distorted & Here's What's Missing
17:30 — Performance-Based Documentation
19:30 — Screen Time, AI, and What Children Really Need
20:30 — Redefining Early Childhood
22:00 — What Teachers Can Do RIGHT NOW Inside a Scripted School Day
25:00 — How Play Teaches Kids to Spot Misinformation and AI Fakes
28:00 — Schools as Training Grounds for Democracy
29:30 — Closing: This Is Not Nostalgia It's a Movement
31:00 — What's Coming Next Week

Next Week: Dr. Chris Hass, co-author of From Empathy to Action with Katie Kelly and Lester Laminack, makes a compelling case that even the youngest students can create real change. This conversation will challenge how you think about empathy research and what's truly possible in your classroom.

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Welcome back listeners. In part two of my conversation with Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell they get specific. What are they actually asking for? What does their proposal say and what can teachers do right now even inside the constraints of a scripted school day? This is behind the scenes work that is giving me, and I hope you real grounded hope.

This is Schoolutions Teaching Strategies, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student. Finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive.

I am Olivia Wahl and I am so happy to be here for part two back with Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy [00:01:00] Cardwell. Beverly and Nancy, we began part one of our conversation with you, really uplifting the work that you are doing to ensure we protect play in our public schools for children. You also spoke to some of the research and neuroscience. We talked about why this is happening, how we really need to keep an eye on where the dollars are flowing to and from. And, um, we're gearing up for part two. 

What I will say is, listeners, if you have not listened to part one, please pause this episode, go back, it's below this, and then come back because this part two conversation, you both are going to share about the behind the scenes work that has given me tremendous hope. I first read about it in a blog by my friend and colleague, Renée Dinnerstein. Um, she has her blog Investigating Choice Time. I follow it. And I’ve followed her work for years and you're going to share about this proposal. Um, so.[00:02:00]  Beverly, let's jump right in. What is the behind the scenes work you've been doing? Why this mayor? Why are you wanting to present to him and why now? 

Beverly: Okay. Well, a group of us, um, who have - longtime educators and, um, some younger educators as well who are activists and very, and both parents of children in the schools and active in the schools, um, have been so concerned about this issue that we put together a statement, um, about what we think is important and we, we did it before the election. Or actually we did it after, I think we started after Mamdani got elected and he had a transition team and we were trying to meet with members of the transition team to share some of these issues with him in the [00:03:00] hopes that his administration will change the, some of the practices that are going on in the New York City schools.

Um we what, what I found out in preparing for all of this though, is something that really has inspired us, which is that there are states that have actually passed resolutions, made policies to support and protect play in the early years of schooling and active learning beyond those early years. Um, Massachusetts and Connecticut are two examples where the legislature has passed up a law to support active play-based learning in the early grades of schooling.

Olivia: Oh, that's amazing. 

Beverly: And so we are hoping to do the same thing and we are [00:04:00] approaching, um, our city council um, the head of our city council is actually the representative of the city council in my neighborhood, so I've already reached out to him and we have a meeting set up. We are sending it to the, um, Mayor and the Chancellor, and I think that we're, our plans I think are going to be also to send it to the New York State Board of Regents.

Olivia: Good. 

Beverly: See if we can get this to be a policy across all the schools in our state. An important thing though, that I wanted to say about why now is that we have a mayor that astounded a lot of people for getting elected, and one of the reasons he got elected, I believe, is that he listened to people. He listened to people's concerns [00:05:00] and hopefully he will be able to be responsive to them.

And so we have a hope that, um, he will listen to us and, um, that we can have some good dialogue about what's important for our future and for our children. He's also appointed a chancellor who has deep concerns about equity in the schools and we believe that real true equity will involve having rich, deep learning opportunities for all children, not just for those communities that have historically been more resourced and better supported. 

Um, and deeper richer learning involves active play-based learning. And we're not talking about, you know. 15 minutes at the end of the day of play as a [00:06:00] reward for being good all day long when you sat at your desk and done worksheets. And we're not talking about 10 minutes of recess. We're talking about having an extended period of time where children can engage in deep thinking, in, um, strong communication with each other to, uh, learn and practice critical thinking and questioning. 

Olivia: Beverly, I wanna just speak to something too. I wrote an article, uh, way back in 2018. My young youngest son was in kindergarten, and um, the article was with Heinemann, Why Every First Grade and Kindergarten Day Needs to Begin with Play. And I reached out to Renée Dinnerstein when I was writing the article because we talked about that idea of using play as a dangling carrot for children.  Like, oh, if you're good or if we get through this, we'll get to play. 

And um, Henry's brilliant kindergarten teacher, Mary Anne Camel, began [00:07:00] every day with play. The children would come in a soft start. They would choose where they wanted to be. There were no limits on that choice. I was so fortunate to spend hours in the classroom just watching children at work. I think something that goes with the idea of rigor and equity is that students are driving their learning experience with play and a scripted curricula, someone else's words are driving the learning experience. And so that's something that's very, very important to, to I think children and teachers to hear. Um, but I, I so love the idea of beginning the day with a concentrated good hour. Of play where the teacher's conferring at, at the kids' level, asking questions. You can't ask questions enough when you're in a scripted curriculum. 

Nancy: If we can accomplish anything with this work, if we can accomplish that shift to [00:08:00] really positioning play as a tool for learning. And a tool for children to process and understand themselves in relation to others and in relation to their environment, and to be curious to have choice and voice in what and how they learn. You know that these are things that are invaluable and core elements of a democratic society. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: Right? 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: And so I think this mayor, you know, sort of circling back to like, why now? Why do we think that this is possible? I, you know, the mayor is a kind man and empathetic and has demonstrated. Tremendous caring for the people of the city of New York. He has stayed up all night, whether, whether people think it was a gimmick or not. He's knocked on all kinds of doors. He's, um, stayed [00:09:00] up late at night to talk to people who work the night shift.

Listening is caring, right? Listening is caring. And so I think he can hear this in a way that I don't think we've had a mayor able to hear this, and I'm biased, so I'm just gonna say that. But since David Dinkins was Mayor, you know, in terms of thinking about the gorgeous mosaic of the city, right? And Mamdani is talking about valuing all of us.

And so. I think he's demonstrated it. You know, he stopped his motorcade on the bridge to help a security guard who was stuck in the snow, right? He's not there to fix everything and be perfect, but like, he helped this man and he was gonna be late for work and [00:10:00] he, he got on the phone with the man's boss who didn't believe him. Right?

Olivia: Yeah. 

Nancy: But he was able to say, no, no, no. I actually am the mayor. This is Mayor Mamdani, you know, and he is, you know, but give him a minute and he'll be in into work. Right? And he helped them get the resources he needed to get him moving to free up the bridge, the traffic on the bridge. And so I say that from those kinds of examples. I think we have someone to work with. I don't necessarily think he's gonna take everything we say as like gospel and say, okay, yes, we're gonna do everything. But I think we have someone who is open to listening and I think the chancellor is one will too, because he's the father of young children and he's an elementary school teacher. Right. So I have hope. 

Olivia: Yeah, I do too. So, Beverly, fill us in. What are your asks? 

Beverly: First to go back to your reference to starting the day with, [00:11:00] uh, what Renée, our colleague Renée, calls Choice Time. Um, she also, um guided me. I have a project called the High Quality Early Learning Project, which is an online open access video collection of high-quality teaching in the early years. And she directed me to a teacher she has worked with, uh, kindergarten teacher she's worked with in Queens, um, Fannie Roman. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Beverly: And um, who and we did a, a, a whole series of videos of her classroom. She started every day with an hour of what we call choice time, which was the children choosing the activities in a well-provisioned classroom that they could follow through with for the entire week. And, um, she explained, both Renée and [00:12:00] Fannie explained to us that it was that rich experiential learning time at the beginning of the day that provided the background and foundation for all the academic and skill and content learning that went on for the rest of the day. It gave it meaning, it gave it power, and it had, it helped it to go deeper. So, um…

Olivia: Beverly. you would never know this, but I actually reference your High Quality Learning Project in the article because I've watched those videos. I've actually used them with early, uh, childhood educators because they're just that powerful. Uh, so yeah. I'm glad you just circled back to that. 

Beverly: Thank you, and the site is just HighQualityEarlyLearning.org.

Olivia: I'll include a link, 

Beverly: And I'm thinking of another school that I've worked with, the Bronx Community Charter School in the Norwood section of the Bronx, where they start [00:13:00] every school year with a six week all school study. And, um, my project documented that study one year when they were studying the Bronx River, and every class spent six weeks doing an inquiry about a different aspect of what the Bronx River was like.

Olivia: Wow. 

Beverly: So the little children, the youngest, the littles, um, we're looking at the flow of the river and the animals that live in the river and the forest around the river. As they went up in the grades and the school goes through eighth grade, the kids were looking at the social political implications of what's happened with the river about pollution in the river and how uh, society has gone about making policies to try to change that, and every age group did a study on this same topic, but in a way that was [00:14:00] appropriate to their level of engagement. And I was thinking about this snow because I was listening to someone on the news talking about um, how this snow is a result of the, a polar vortex that we've received and that polar vortex, um, actually has come about because, um, the arctic is warming.

And so the vortex slowed down and the cold that was in the vortex came down to us. And that's something that an eighth grader or your 14-year-old son could be very interested in studying if school were, um, engaging with what's going on in the world. So I wanted to share that. 

Olivia:  Yeah, that’s wonderful.

Nancy: Can I quick plug too, because in the study of the Bronx River that they did at the, at um, Bronx Community Charter, that was not [00:15:00] disconnected from the Common Core Curriculum. So in that first six weeks, they were looking at habitats.

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: Animals. Right. But they did it through the study of the river. 

Olivia: Absolutely.

Nancy: And so when we talk about rigor, we're not talking about tossing out curriculum, that there shouldn't be any curriculum. However, there needs to be sufficient flexibility. So that you can do this deep rich learning at every grade level so that children are exploring these big ideas of animals and habitats and all of those things, but through this lens of the, the environment that they're familiar with.

Olivia: Absolutely. 

Beverly: So our proposal is basically to, I'm not gonna say ban [00:16:00] mandated curriculum, but I am gonna say do away with scripts and give more flexibility and look at curriculum as a guide if there's going to be a curriculum rather than as a mandate that has to be scripted and followed to the letter. That was one thing to look at reading as beyond just phonics instruction. The science of reading has been distorted. The science of reading is not just phonics and phonemic awareness. It is also, um, morphology and meaning and comprehension and vocabulary and content knowledge. And as we talked about in the first part of our meeting together, um, that brain research shows that. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Beverly: So the science of learning is, um, the science of reading is one part of the science of learning, [00:17:00] and it's been distorted and the, the, the important, really important elements of it have been left out. Um, we also feel strongly that, um assessment needs to be a assessment that looks at the learner and not just at a score on a standardized test. And, um, I am respectful that there needs to be ways to keep track, to make sure that there's equity and that our historically, uh, under-resourced communities, um, are being, are able to, to progress and learn, um, in a powerful way. But there are ways to keep track of learning besides filling in a blank on a standardized test.

Olivia: Yes. 

Beverly: And early [00:18:00] childhood, and it's foundational in early childhood to that observation and documentation and collection of work is, um, is the way to really know and understand and support children. But there's also projects and, and doing project-based assessments. And our state has made some progress in that, but ironically, in the upper grades, not with the younger children.

Olivia: Right. 

Beverly: And also, um, there is a way, and I worked on this in the, in the nineties with the Whole State Education Department to take performance-oriented documentation of children's learning and create descriptions of what that looks like at various stages of development, and even to give it a number so that you can aggregate data and see how kids are learning.

We did that teach, uh, we worked with hundreds of [00:19:00] teachers across the state. Um, who really liked that kind of assessment as did the children and as did the families. And unfortunately, the policymakers at the time were not willing to go along with it. So we took some little pieces of that initiative, but it, it never really. Uh, took hold and I think it's worthy to reexamine performance assessment once again. And to the credit of the Regents, they're doing this, in with a pilot plan. In the middle and high schools and let's bring it into the early grades as well. 

We're also really concerned, um, about screen time. Introduction of artificial intelligence into the schools. And yes, it's important that our young children be prepared for the futures they're gonna live in, but there's also strong brain-based evidence that screen time needs [00:20:00] to be limited for children, and that we want to also teach children how to distinguish, uh misinformation from the truth. And we need, if we're going to work with artificial intelligence, uh, we need to emphasize that and to help people, um, really be able to, to know what's real and what's not. 

Olivia: Yes, true. 

Beverly: Um, and there's two other things. We, we think of early childhood in New York City anyhow, early childhood is considered birth through age four. Through pre-K and around the country, our professional association and around the world, early childhood is considered to be birth through age eight.

Olivia: Right! Yes. 

Beverly: And somehow magically children do not change No. The way that they're developing, once they hit [00:21:00] kindergarten and all of a sudden, um, we now have, I kindergarten being the, or the second grade being the new kindergarten. 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. 

Beverly: Or third grade being the new kindergarten. So we need to, um, and, and even the way the, the, um, the education department is structured early childhood team only goes through age four. 

Olivia: Yeah. Fascinating. 

Beverly: And kindergarten goes, it's K through 12 is the regular, uh, team for professional development. Um, we need to reconsider that. Uh, and then our last thing is also the importance of the equity issue that we've raised already about providing supports for children because children come to school and they need to be well fed and they need to be housed, and they need to be cared for, and they need to have, uh, those kinds of supports. So we need to think about, and I [00:22:00] think this is something the Mayor uh, is in support of, is community schools more of that? 

Olivia: Uh, Nancy, can you help us think of what can teachers do right now based on the work that your team is doing behind the scenes? 

Nancy: I think that in classrooms, you know, teachers have an opportunity to set the tone and set the atmosphere and to provide materials and resources and opportunities for children to express themselves. When, um, I was teaching, um, kindergarten, I started my day with, um, really very relaxed, expressive kinds of choices. So, because the kids that I was working with, um, were coming from very distressed backgrounds and sometimes they really needed to decompress and kind of just like really have like a separation.

Um, but I think [00:23:00] right now what we need to do is create, even teachers can create little areas in the room where children can go and sit quietly with a book in a soft space. Where they can decompress, where they can, um, just breathe and calm down. You know, using some of the trauma informed, um, pedagogical approaches, but like a safe space and really beginning to talk about safety in the classroom. Places where the teacher can say, okay, this is, I can make this, I can make this space safe. 

Olivia: Mm-hmm. 

Nancy: Right. Because. The front lines of the, the assaults are really, um, our immigrant, um, are immigrant families. But you know, we, in the field of trauma, we know a trauma witnessed is a trauma experienced. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: And [00:24:00] so the children who are witnessing the things that are happening. To adults, to other children. Um, it's confusing. And so the ways in which we can be supportive and create emotional steadiness so that children have the strength to be able to engage cognitively. 

Olivia: Yeah, 

Nancy: …With all that they need to, um, to engage with, to really understand themselves and the world around them. Right. That these are, and this is all part of learning. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: You know, um, so those are some of the things like, you know, very granular things, you know, softness, kindness, care, listening, you know, when a children has, when when a children, sorry. When a child has something to say, attend to it. Listen to it.

Olivia: Something else, Beverly, that you spoke to, I [00:25:00] want to loop back with the idea of AI. Because I have sat with my 14-year-old and watched a video and or saved it to share it, and he's like, mom, that's not real. He will look at me like I'm cra. I'm like, that's not real. How do you know that's not real? And it used to be that there were little symbols that would pop up and you could kind of tell now those are gone.

So something I have found absolutely fascinating is the research of how play-based learning can very early ages, because democracy starts in kindergarten as far as that. Yes. Even before then. But that, as far as I'm concerned. So how can play ba, how does play-based learning help our children determine and distinguish between fact versus fiction? Nancy, could you take that question? 

Nancy: Oh, sure. Um, I think that where your son is, is something that does start in early childhood. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Nancy: And the more children have a chance to [00:26:00] play and manipulate real objects and work with real people and see how real people function, the more, the more capable they become over, over time to distinguish between what's possible and what's not. And um, so to be more specific, they know how things work because they've used them. They know that animals can't do that because they've, they've interacted with them. They know that people don't do these things because physically that's not possible because they've tried it. Right. 

So, and, and it really gives them that, um, pragmatic knowledge. Through experience, and [00:27:00] that's what we sacrifice when, when we don't allow children to play. It's like, how do I bring forward these parts of myself that are demanded by the context? How do I bring forward my knowledge, my, my, my attention in a way that is productive in this context? 

Olivia: Brilliant.

Nancy: right? 

Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. 

Nancy: And so that's what play allows children to do because children create the context. Then they practice using the rules of that context and they act it out. And they try it out and they see what works and they see what doesn't. 

Olivia: Yes. 

Nancy: And that's how they have that beginning foundation of reality versus fantasy.

Beverly: I wanna say one more thing about, about the importance of all of this is that we are in a critical moment in [00:28:00] our democracy right now. Um, and schools are foundational training grounds for democracy. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Beverly: And the way that they can be - the way that that can be is to al nurture children and provide opportunities for them to engage with each other and problem solve together and work out issues together. And by learning to do that as young children and by modeling that support for that, as educators, we support them to move into becoming active participants in our democracy. And that is a critical piece that when there's a mandated script, a mandated script, and there's not room for this kind of back and forth about meaningful actual context, things that are happening right in the moment, we lose that [00:29:00] opportunity.

Olivia: This, this has been a just such a helpful conversation for me. You've both offered many, many tools um, and next steps. I feel I am equipped now to go forth with clarity, and I believe that our children deserve play. It is their right. Um, and I also think that a lot of caregivers, a lot of educators, um, doctors, neuroscientists, uh, have our back in this, this mission and movement that we're trying to put into place. 

Um, what I want to just end a note on is this is not nostalgia. And what I mean by that is if someone's listening and saying, oh, they just are yearning for kindergarten of yesteryear. Well, in a way, yes, because kindergarten of yesteryear was steeped with play opportunities, hours of play, of unstructured play, and [00:30:00] teachers being trusted and honored to hone their craft. And so, yes, there is a, a notion of nostalgia here and we have research to show all of the ways that play-based learning nurtures the whole child and gives our youngest children but let's face it, our older children, what they need to thrive. Um, I will include links to the research, to the proposal. All of the mentions that you both, um, woven through these part one and part two conversations, and just thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. On behalf of our children, 

Beverly: Thank you for giving us voice. 

Olivia: Yes.

Nancy: Thank you for this opportunity. It's been a real joy to be able to share it with you and your listeners.

Olivia: Take care, friends. 

Nancy: Thanks.

Olivia: Thank you so much to Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell for this [00:31:00] conversation and for the work they are doing on behalf of every child who deserves a school day full of wonder choice and play. I have links to the research, the resources mentioned, and Beverly's High Quality Early Learning Project in the show notes. If this conversation moved, you share it with a caregiver, a colleague, or an administrator who needs to hear it. Let's keep this conversation going, 

And next week's episode is one I've been waiting to share. Dr. Chris has co-author of From Empathy to Action with Katie Kelly and Lester Laminack makes a compelling case that even the youngest students can create real change. And that teaching kids just to care may actually be getting in the way. This conversation will challenge how you think about empathy research and what's truly possible in your classroom. I'll see you for that conversation on Monday. 

Schoolutions Podcast is [00:32:00] created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you always to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guests, Dr. Beverly Falk and Dr. Nancy Cardwell for sharing what we can do right now, even inside the constraints of a scripted school day.

Don't forget to send me an email at schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com and let me know what your next step is after listening. Tune in every Monday and Friday for part one and part two of my guest conversations with the best evidence-based, classroom ready strategies, you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. And look for your 60-second bite-sized piece of learning on Wednesdays from our conversation to share with a colleague. Take care and thank you for forever getting better with me. See you next [00:33:00] week.