School Streets: Inside NYC's Movement to Reclaim Urban Spaces

In Part 1 of this S5E36 two-part @schoolutionspodcast conversation, urban planner and organizer Sabina Sethi Unni from @openplansnyc breaks down New York City's School Streets program. It's a DOT initiative that closes car traffic in front of schools during school hours to create outdoor space for kids who need it most. Consider the possibilities...what if the street outside your school could become a gym, a science fair, or a Halloween parade all before 3 PM?

We discuss:
- What School Streets actually looks like (hint: it's active learning in action)
- How schools apply and who is eligible
- Why student engagement and classroom behavior improve when kids have space to move
- The #1 barrier for under-resourced schools and how Open Plans removes it
- Why equity in education and culturally responsive teaching are baked into their outreach model
- How parent involvement and family partnerships make or break the program
- What school leadership and principal strategies can do to champion this today
- Why community engagement is non-negotiable in education transformation

📩 Want to bring a School Street to your school? Reach out to Sabina directly: sabina@openplans.org 

Some resources mentioned:

• School Streets program with Open Plans
• Hackney, UK (suburb of London): Open streets research program 
• Paris School Streets program 
• School Streets report

CHAPTERS:
0:00 — Introduction & Sabina's Background
1:45 — Research That Drives the Work (Hackney, UK)
3:00 — How Street Design Became a Lever of Power
5:00 — From Intern to Full-Time: The Equity Research That Started It All
7:15 — How Schools Apply & Who Is Eligible
8:45 — Prioritizing Low-Income Communities of Color
9:45 — The Real Barriers: Staffing, PTAs & Stretched Schools
10:55 — How Open Plans Removes Barriers for Schools
12:30 — What a School Street Actually Looks & Feels Like
13:45 — Flexible Hours: Schools Choose What Works for Them
14:30 — How Involved Is Open Plans After Approval?
15:30 — Leadership Turnover as a Hidden Barrier
16:30 — Lightning Round: Best Quotes, Myths & Big Dreams
18:30 — The Danger of Skipping Community Engagement
19:30 — Key Takeaways & Part 2 Preview

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Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] What if the street outside your school could become a gym, a science fair, a Halloween parade, and breathing room for kids all before 3:00 PM? Urban planner and organizer Sabina Sethi Unni of Open Plans is making that happen across New York City through the School Streets program. In part one, Sabina breaks down how schools can apply, who is eligible, and what the barriers are for under-resourced communities. Here's my conversation with Sabina Sethi Unni. 

This is Schoolutions, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom, a show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive.[00:01:00] 

I am Olivia Wahl, and I am so excited to introduce you to Sabina Sethi Unni on the podcast today. Let me tell you a little bit about Sabina. Sabina Sethi Unni is an urban planner, organizer, and public artist who believes that the streets in front of our children's schools should be the most joyful places in our neighborhoods. As schools planner at Open Plans and a new city critic with the Architectural League, she has turned car-clogged streets into outdoor classrooms, block parties, and breathing room for kids across New York City. Sabina, welcome. I am so excited to be in conversation with you today. 

Sabina: I'm so happy to be here.

Olivia: Yeah. Let's start off with a piece of research or a researcher that you lean on in your work. 

Sabina: That's a great question. Um, there is a series of open streets in the UK in this, like, suburb of London called Hackney, and they hired a team of researchers to [00:02:00] evaluate their open streets program, and I think it's the most robust research that we have about whether the program works, how it works, different kinds of data.

They measured things like noise levels before and after implementing open streets. Um, quality of life, did parents and families actually like the program? Um, something I'm always curious about is, um, when you have an open street, do you displace traffic, or does it encourage people to walk and bike? They were able to measure that, um, and many, many other things. And so, um, I think that it's very accessible research, and it also is great because it's similar to our open streets, um, in New York. And so I like pointing people in that direction, and it also answers some questions for me. 

Olivia: Brilliant. Uh, what we're going to do is part one is going to focus more on the School Streets program as well as how schools can apply, who is eligible, what it looks and feels like. Part two is going to focus on how changing streets actually changes communities, [00:03:00] and your work really focuses on centering the voices of families, communities, and the the kids in the school. So, that's how we're gonna flow in this conversation. Um, when did you first realize that land use and street design are real levers of power in cities?

Sabina: Yeah. I worked for council member Shahana Hanif when she was running for office, and, um, she was running for office in Gowanus at the same time as the Gowanus rezoning. And so it was really interesting working for her and seeing all of these neighborhood changes happening really fast, whether it was the Gowanus rezoning, there was the, um, School District 15, um, school, like, desegregation comprehensive plan, um, and then other, you know, policies about affordable housing, clean, equitable parks, fair schools.

Um, and it was, you know, on the outside [00:04:00] kind of hard to understand some of these, like, technical dynamics. Like, what is an environmental impact statement from a rezone- what does that mean, and how do I read this and understand this? Um, and it seemed to me working on this campaign that city planners, um, had access to a lot of technical information around these issues, both from, like, a community engagement perspective, but also, like, a land use perspective.

So, planners were doing this and also, like, had access to the levers of power in the city, whether it was people working on land use in city council, um, or beyond. So, I decided to go to planning school after seeing that and many other things like that, um, and, um, especially in a city like New York. And so I feel like the Gowanus rezoning and then also the Flushing rezoning in Queens and also watching planners help translate these technical documents to organizers doing amazing on-the-ground work, and that interplay really inspired me.

Olivia: Yeah. So this is fascinating to me because you started as an [00:05:00] intern with Open Plans in 2022, and then because- 

Sabina: That's so long ago… 

Olivia: It's so... It's forever. Uh, but because of y- that research project you did around School Streets, they invited you to become a full-time employee. So how did that happen? 

Sabina: So I interned between my first and second year of grad school. And when I was in grad school, I had done a couple of like GIS research projects for class on Open Streets, curious like, um, the equity gaps of the program. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Sabina: Um, because they seem visually, when you look at the map of the program at the time, it seemed like they were really clustered in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Um, but is that true? Even with, you know, Brooklyn and Manhattan are diverse boroughs. And so both like what the equity landscape of the program looks like, and also was curious, okay, where could Open Streets that already exist in the city use more support based on various demographic factors? And so I was thinking a lot about Open Streets.

[00:06:00] And um, so then I applied to work at Open Plans for an internship and ended up working more on Open Streets, specifically School Streets. And when I was an intern, I did a lot of interviewing, so it was obviously summer internship. So, um, a lot of schools were not in session. Um, but as you know, uh, a lot of principals and school admin work over the summer.

Olivia: Yes, they do.

Sabina: Um, and which people don't know. People are always, you know, giving them a hard time, but, uh, people are working over the summer. Um- Yeah ... so I interviewed a lot of school admin when they had a little more free time to think about the program and what worked for them, what was challenging, um, burdens, um, in the application, um, and implementation of the program.

So did a lot of interviewing, did more GIS-ing. Um, at the beginning of the internship, I definitely went to a bunch of schools and like observed what are their- Right ... Open Street look like. Um, I think that was a great way to learn really fast about the program, meet, uh, folks at the DOT who are working on the program, um, and then meet other [00:07:00] organizers across the city who are working on, uh, similar issues. And then ended up working on the same program today. 

Olivia: Yeah. It, it's so exciting. And so how is a school determined eligible for School Streets? 

Sabina: Um, so the school has to apply, and it has to be a school that, uh, their principal or a member of their admin team applies. We definitely have a lot of schools where, like, a parent is really excited to apply or a PTA, and we have to say, "It has to be a member of your admin team."

Olivia: Okay. 

Sabina: So the first thing that has to happen is the, like, internal advocacy. Sometimes principals are the ones who reach out and plan their own. A lot of the time, it seems to be parents, a, a community-based organization that the school works with, even a teacher or staff member who are encouraging and advocating, uh, the principal to apply. Um, and then of course they need to do the application process. Um, and then there's a bunch of like, um, you know, interviews, conversations with the DOT. Obviously, we're not the DOT, so we don't have like a full picture of like the exact criteria, even though it would be [00:08:00] really nice to have that- 'cause I think we could better advise schools, and we work so closely with them.

Um, but it does seem like a couple of things. If a school has like a bus lane on it, that's a no-go. They don't wanna interfere with any bus lanes and traffic there. Um, it also seems like, um, if a school has a lot of driveways, we've definitely had some schools that have driveways been accepted to the program, but they've had to like reach a certain threshold of neighbor approval. Um, but it does seem like that changes each time. But it seems like the driveways and the bus routes are the big ones. 

Olivia: All right. That, this is so helpful and good to know. Um, I know you've also mentioned schools, um, in neighborhoods that you, you- when you were doing your research, you noticed that there were certain clusters. Um, you prioritize outreach to schools in more low-income, communities of color. What are some of the barriers you find for those communities? 

Sabina: Totally. Well, first we're, [00:09:00] we're, we're prioritizing those neighborhoods to, like, help close the spatial equity gap in terms of, like, what schools already don't have access to public spaces in their school, like gyms and cafeterias, whether it's 'cause they're under construction, their school is not up to date with its infrastructure, maybe they're overcrowded or co-located six schools. So we know those conditions exist, and we also know that in terms of, like, a traffic safety perspective, you're more likely to have, um, a street that's dangerous with car traffic, um, if you're a school in a low-income neighborhood especially public schools, and during pick-up and drop-off hours. So those are some also key reasons why we prioritize that.

Um, but some other barriers, I think, you know, we've definitely worked with our fair share of schools that have a lot of staffing support. Um, so maybe that's, um, they have the, you know, resources to, to hire, like, a private security officer to manage the barricades. Um, [00:10:00] or maybe they have a really robust PTA, and the PTA can say, "Hey, we, uh, work remotely on Mondays and Thursdays. We can manage the barricades at the beginning of the day, end of the day." So those are awesome. I think it is great that schools can have those resources, but as we know, not every school has a PTA. 

Olivia: Right. 

Sabina: Maybe it has a PTA, but doesn't have the parents don't have flexible schedules or the time to volunteer every day, or maybe they can volunteer, but they can't do it during the workday because they don't have the flexibility of a hybrid schedule. So I think it becomes a big issue with staffing, who can provide the support to staffing, and then, like, pay for staff hours. Um, it takes time out of staff schedules. And then I also think generally, like some schools are stretched really thin. They have a lot going on. The guidance counselor quit. They have more students to deal with. Um, and so this becomes like another thing on their plate which is challenging. 

Olivia: How do you help with those barriers? 

Sabina: Um, well, we like to, um, do as much of the application as possible for them. We love to [00:11:00] support them with getting the letter of recommendations. Um, that can be a challenge because it's following up and following up. My, um, my, my grandma and my aunt both, uh, are school administrators, and they run an awesome school and, um, they, uh... So I know how busy they are and how, like, the work never ends and, um, it's constant. 

Olivia: It is. 

Sabina: And so one thing is, like, how do we reduce the administrative work for them? And whether that's helping with the site plan or helping them work out what, what is this management plan and staffing plan. I also think sometimes the city can use words that seem really scary to people outside of our fields. Like, "What is a site plan? Do we really need that?" Um, and those are the kind of things that also can tell, "Maybe I should... I have a lot of things to do. I should not focus on this." And, you know, school admin are experts, but not experts in urban planning. That's just a completely different field. So some of these things can feel kind of technical and scary. Um, we also help with, like, you know, day-to-day troubleshooting. "Oh, a [00:12:00] kid, a kid accidentally bumped into a car. What should we do?" Uh- "We stole a neighbor's rock." Um- 

Olivia: Yeah ... 

Sabina: So, um, we also help with, like, programming support as well.

Olivia: Can you define, Sabina, what a school street is, what it looks and feels like for us? 

Sabina: A school street is, uh, a DOT program that, um, allows schools to close the streets in front of or adjacent to their schools off, uh, to car traffic during the school day. It can be very simple. It can be closing it during pick-up and drop-off and just making that, uh, calmer, a little relief. I've definitely worked with schools where there's, like, near misses, um, with cars and kids at the beginning and end of the day, so it can just look like a little more safety at the beginning and end of the school day. Um, it can look like recess and gym. Um, those are some of my favorite schools to work on, where they, like, don't have a gym and they'll bring the kids out, and it will feel like gym class and lots of kids congregating, using the street [00:13:00] in different ways.

Um, it can also feel like outdoor learning. Um, schools more so definitely used this during the pandemic, during the height of the pandemic, but I definitely think there are still schools who, like, will bring class outside, uh, do a science fair. Um, and then it can also look like community programming, whether it's, like, a Halloween parade, a lot of schools do that, um, or whether it's a, a health fair, um, programming that involves parents and the broader school community, but it is really a real, like, hub for activity with schools.

Olivia: So logistically, it's not just closed at the start and end of the day. It's closed off during the duration of the school day? 

Sabina: Yes. So schools can kind of decide when they apply when they wanna do it. Some schools say, "We just need it from 8:40 to 9:20, and again from 2:20 to 2:40." And then they just do that. Other schools say, "Well, we'll need it from 10:10 to 2:30 for, like, our different gym [00:14:00] classes across the grades." Some schools are like, "We want it the whole day." Other schools will use it in the afternoon and extend for, like, after-school programming. So schools, when they apply, can decide what hours work for their school.

Olivia: How involved are you once the application is, uh, approved? 

Sabina: I like to stay very involved. Um, so whether that's, like, being there for the first day and having a block party. That's something we love to do, is, like, celebrate with a block party. Um, once they get approved, we do some outreach support. We've done And also, it, like, depends on the school. Sometimes schools are like, "We're good to go," and then that's that. Other schools are like, "Yes, let's canvas. Let's knock doors of the neighbors. Let's make sure everyone knows about this program. If they have their complaints, get them out now." There's another school where, like, a neighbor on the street was, like, calling my cell phone, like, "I'm not happy about this program," like, deep into the program. Um, helping, you know, liaise with electeds and other community-based groups, but we stay really involved with the program. And I also [00:15:00] like, you know, checking in on the schools as well, because this is the kind of program where, like, it can become something really amazing, but, like, a small challenge can sometimes feel insurmountable.

Olivia: Yeah. How often do schools have to apply once they've been approved? 

Sabina: Once a year.

Olivia: Once a year, okay. Um, and, and I can imagine if an admin changes, that's harder. And so school districts that have higher transiency of leadership that's, that's another barrier that we just should throw out there in the universe and people may not be thinking about.  

Sabina: Yes! So I hadn't even thought about that, but that is such a good point, and it's happened to us a bunch of times. Yeah. Where you have, like, a real champion, um, a parent-teacher coordinator, an assistant principal, who is, you know, really excited about this program, uh, a huge supporter, but then they have to retire, or they quit, or they, like, get sick and have to, like, take a year off. Like, all these things happen. Um, and then that makes it really challenging for the school to find their champion to... 

You know, we work with a school that I won't name, that I [00:16:00] love, but they, you know, they was working with one of their staff for the program who left, and now the staff is like, you know, I don't think is, like, fully convinced. The staff that I now work with to, like, apply is not fully convinced of the program, is kind of more reluctant, and that's challenging. That's an internal challenge, um- that makes it harder for, for the program to thrive. 

Olivia: It does. It also speaks to the need for sustainability, and so the models when you do have leaders that are all in, creating a replicable model within that community and that ecosystem, and so it makes it easier for everyone else to sustain if that leader steps out. Um- 

Sabina: Totally ... 

Olivia: Yeah, it's, uh, I, uh, I have all these questions that are bubbling up. I'm going to pause part one, though, with a lightning round. Yes. So here we go. Just gut responses to these questions. Um, what is the best thing you've ever heard a child or a teacher or a caregiver say on a school street?

Sabina: Oh, this is great. Um, the best thing I've ever heard was at [00:17:00] IS528 in Washington Heights, and they were telling us they use the street every day for recess, and they don't have a gym. They, um, were telling us that, um, you know, a lot of kids when they would come back from lunch, they were really, um, bouncing off the walls, and they were nervous. Some of our kids have ADHD, where there are different problems that students had that they wanted to address. Um, but then when they were able to actually bring their kids out for recess and play, they were like, "Oh my goodness, our students are actually so regulated now, and we're able to socialize with each other and move around" and they noticed a real difference in their classrooms.

Olivia: Oh, fabulous. All right. What is the biggest myth people believe about closing streets to cars? 

Sabina: Ooh, the biggest myth that people believe is that neighbors are always gonna get upset. Neighbors don't always get upset. Sometimes they're very understanding of the program. 

Olivia: Awesome. Uh, Paris, I think if I'm looking at the research correctly, has 200 school streets right now. 

Sabina: We may be close to 300!

Olivia: Ooh, the... Okay, so that's even better. What is the dream for your program in 10 years with New York City? 

Sabina: 400. We gotta, we gotta beat Paris. 

Olivia: Okay, good. Um, and then let me see. Uh, what's the coolest program you've seen a School Street, uh, employ? 

Sabina: Ooh, can I cheat and say whenever they work with us?

Olivia: Yes, you can, and that's a actually really good answer because it'd be almost impossible to choose one. Um, uh, let's, let's just end on a note of wishing or hoping for the future. What is an aspect of urban planning that needs to change, like yesterday? 

Sabina: Totally. I think planners, planners wanna get things done which I totally agree with, but sometimes at the expense of community engagement. I think people, um, you know, people were really responsive to, like, Robert Moses-era planning of, like, deciding for communities, [00:19:00] and thought really carefully about what are ways to include civic participation into planning.

But I think recently there's been kind of a weird backlash amongst even, like, progressive, cool planners about, like, "We just need to get these projects to happen," and, "A lot of things are getting stuck in community boards," and, "We're the experts." And I think that's really dangerous thinking when we are overriding communities, not listening to students, um, because we want projects to go fast and we want projects to happen.

I totally understand that. I'm always like, we need these climate projects to happen. We need these transit projects to happen. They're getting mired in politics, but I think that can't come at the expense of really good community engagement. 

Olivia: Oh, that's such a perfect segue into part two. Ooh. Uh, Sabina, this has been illuminating. I cannot wait to hear more from you about really when you do engage and prioritize that engagement with community, it can change the lives of the families, of the schools, of everyone. So, um, listeners, stay tuned for part two. Thank you for part one, Sabina. 

Sabina: Amazing. [00:20:00] 

Olivia: Yeah. That is a wrap on part one, and here are my three key takeaways. School Streets closes car traffic in front of schools during school hours, and even outside of school hours at times. This gives kids without gyms, cafeterias, or outdoor space a place to move, breathe, and learn outside. Second, the biggest barrier to the program isn't neighbors. It's the administrative burden on the already stretched school staff, and targeted support can make or break a school's participation. Third, equity is built into the outreach strategy. Sabina and the Open Plans team prioritize low-income communities of color where dangerous traffic, overcrowding, and under-resourced schools make the need greatest. 

If you're a school administrator, parent, teacher, or community organizer in New York City who wants to bring a School Street to your block, reach out to Sabina [00:21:00] directly at sabina@openplans.org. Her team will help you through the entire application process for free.

Links to the Co-Created School Streets toolkit and Open Plans are in the show notes. Make sure to come back for part two, where Sabina takes us deeper into what happens when you actually center community voices in urban planning: The Clarkson Street story that could become a national model, the bureaucratic battles worth fighting, and what Sabina would tell Mayor Mamdani if he called her tomorrow and said, "Every street in front of every school is going to be a school street." You don't want to miss it. See you Friday.