Can We Scale Street Redesign? ⁨@openplansnyc⁩ Has a Plan!

In part 2 of my S5E36 ⁨@schoolutionspodcast⁩ conversation with Sabina Sethi Unni from @openplansnyc⁩ breaks down how urban redevelopment can truly impact a school community. Sabina shares specific strategies for urban design, like a co-created toolkit and a relational outreach approach, showing a before and after in community engagement. This architecture video highlights the Clarkson Street project, proposing new installations to foster a better environment.

💫Make sure to watch Part 1  and learn more about applying by reaching out to Sabina at sabina@openplans.org

📚 Some Episode Mentions:

• School Streets program with Open Plans
• Clarkson School Street Project 
• New York Edge
• The Project for Public Spaces 
• Transportation Alternatives
• Paris School Streets program 
• Pratt Institute / International Placemaking Week 

CHAPTERS
0:00 — Introduction: Streets as the Most Joyful Place in the Neighborhood
1:30 — What Is a School Street? Definition & What It Looks Like
4:00 — How Schools Apply & Eligibility Requirements
6:30 — Equity First: Why Low-Income Communities Are Prioritized
9:00 — The Biggest Barriers: Staffing, Admin Burden & Leadership Turnover
11:30 — Co-Creating the Toolkit with Transportation Alternatives
14:00 — From Cold Outreach to Relational Organizing
16:30 — The Clarkson Street Story: A National Model in the Making
20:00 — NYC's First-Ever Permanent Swing Gate on a Public Street
23:00 — Mayor Mamdani's Opt-Out Proposal & What It Could Mean
26:00 — If Every Street Became a School Street: Where to Start
29:00 — The Vision for Scale & What Paris Can Teach NYC
31:00 — How to Get Involved, Apply, or Support the Movement

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🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

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Next week's episode: Xochitl Bentley teaches us about different storytelling stances and how they connect to climate stewardship. Xochitl offers a masterclass in culturally responsive teaching, inclusive classrooms, and sparking student motivation through narrative and identity. 

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When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] Welcome back for part two of my conversation with Sabina Sethi Unni. If you haven't listened to part one, pause right now, go back, and then come meet us here. What does it actually look like when a street transforms a school community? In part two, Sabina Sethi Unni gets specific. The co-created toolkit born from intern interviews, the relational outreach model that replaced cold calls, the Clarkson Street project that's proposing to install New York City's first-ever permanent swing gate on a public street, and what an opt-out School Streets policy could mean for every child in New York City. This is where urban planning meets community organizing, and the results are extraordinary. 

This is Schoolutions, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical, [00:01:00] try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive.

Welcome back, listeners. I am here with Sabina Sethi Unni with Open Plans and School Streets Program. Uh, if you have not listened to part one, pause this conversation, go back. You will learn so much about School Streets. And we are kicking off part two focused on the community involvement, community outreach. Sabina, let's jump right in. Um, I wanna think about the idea of co-creation, and you just left us off on part one with that. You cannot just push programs through. The community has to be involved. It's critical. You co-created a toolkit with Transportation Alternatives from the bottom up. How did that work?

Sabina: So it started when I was intern, and, um, we, you know, had been doing this work interviewing schools, Transportation Alternatives. I think I'd been doing really similar work. And so me and another Transportation Alternatives [00:02:00] staffer, Deshandi, who is now a lawyer, um, and very cool, um, uh, worked together to write this toolkit for school administrators, um, and saying, "How can we help you through the process of applying?"

And so, and it had templates, um, more about the program itself, um, how to actually complete the application materials, what goes in a letter of recommendation, what do you need to put in an outreach and management plan. Um, and so we worked on that together and then had like a release where we also used it as a strategy to get, um, buy-in from elected officials about the program because you need elected officials to write letters of support to, yes, the program when it comes to community review. And so we also tried to, tried to get some political will there too. 

But I've definitely had so many school administrators reach out to me because of the toolkit and, you know, say, "We found the toolkit. We actually have a question about the application. Can you help us apply?" And I feel like, you know, right now it seems like the [00:03:00] toolkit serves like a launching pad to share more about like what actually does this program entail for me, and then I'll work with them on the application itself.

Olivia: What is your approach with outreach? 

Sabina: Yeah, for like finding schools that should apply for the program. I think I've tried a lot of things. When I first started working at Open Plans, it was a lot of cold outreach, and so a lot of like going to neighborhoods and like looking on the map and talking to friends about like what schools would be a good fit, and then emailing and calling their school admin staff. That was pretty unsuccessful. Schools are not super excited to talk to a total stranger. Um, and so, uh, I think the method of outreach has now shifted more to like relational. Um, so that means a parent will reach out to me and tell me, "My school needs a School Street. Can I connect you to the principal?" Or I'll reach out to a lot of community-based organizations and say, "I know you serve schools and work with youth. What schools do you work with? And do you think any of [00:04:00] them could be a good fit for an open street?" 

We'll talk to a lot of council members, um, constituent services staff. And so they're already getting calls like, "I have really bad traffic at the beginning and end of my school day." And I'm like, "Please funnel those schools to me, 'cause we'll help them for free." Um, and so it's more about now looking for a connection with a school that can connect us back to a school. Um, and you know, it also like values on-the-ground expertise. Like it's one thing for me to say, "I think this street would be a perfect fit for a School Street," and it's another thing for a community member to say, "Hey, I walk past this school on my commute every day, and I see there's overcrowding." Or a parent to say, "My kids feel unsafe crossing the street when they get off of school." And so those are really meaningful and also just like strategically better connections. 

Olivia: It's also, it's an open door because it's a perceived need right out of the gate that you can open the conversation with that's amazing. Um, I wanna shift a little bit to the idea of community impact, and there's the Clarkson Street story that I think could serve as a model. What is that [00:05:00] story that you could share with listeners? 

Sabina: We definitely think so too. We're like, "Let this be." Um, so Clarkson Street is, uh, two co-located schools. Um, City As School, which is a transfer school, and allegedly where Basquiat went to high school. 

Olivia: Ah. 

Sabina: Um, but it, uh, does a lot of vocational training, arts-based education. And then M721, which is a D75 school, occupational training campus. So really important schools that have very different needs. 

Olivia: Yeah. 

Sabina: And, uh, the school doesn't have a gym. It's also under construction, so they don't have, like, spaces to gather, like an auditorium or lobby really, or, um, courtyard. Um, all those spaces existed in the past, but they're under construction now. And their lobby is, like, uh, the school security officers and a production of "The Wizard of Oz" and karate class and basketball practice all at the same time.

And so, uh, the principal had reached out, the assistant principal had reached out to me, Carl, um, and he, uh, we met, he talked about the school. Um, we applied. I [00:06:00] visited a lot of times. And, um, it, it was like a little bit of hiccups at the beginning because it's a lot easier to do this kind of work with elementary schoolers and middle schoolers.

Olivia: Yes

Sabina: Who are just gonna run around and who you can, like, play, like, capture the flag, and high schoolers are a little more reticent to do these kinds of activities. And so coming up with programming that, like, students like and are excited about. Um, and also the school, the street has, like, kind of hard conditions for making this possible. Really narrow, a lot of car parking right by the Holland Tunnel, so there's a lot of big cars trying to pass through. There are lots of other streets they can pass through, but they happened to pick this one. Um, uh, but the street also has a lot of reasons why it's a really good fit for a School Street.

Obviously, the school needs it, but, like, there's almost nothing on the street. There's a park there, uh, but that, you know, is kind of hard for kids to get to. There is a, um, former rec center that's under construction. There's a former library also under construction. There's, like, a lot under construction, so there's, [00:07:00] there's not a ton of, like, things actually happening on the street, so that kind of makes it a good condition for it to become this open street.

And so now they use it more regularly. They partner with New York City Edge, a nonprofit that also works within the school between both schools for programming, and they host Halloween parties, resource fairs, Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations. They're really good about culturally responsive programming. We're also helping with these block parties. Um, and more recently even, they've been doing really great, like, day-to-day programming, which has gotten me really excited. Um, and so we applied for a grant, which we got from The Project for Public Spaces, to put some permanent infrastructure. We were thinking like, okay, there are all these conditions that make it hard, what I just said now, like physically, but uh, also all the staffing things that we talked about earlier in part one, um, around what makes it challenging for administrators to operate a program like this.

And we thought, well, there's a lot of aspects of physical infrastructure and permanent infrastructure that could, not resolve fully, but make some of these a little bit easier. [00:08:00] So, one thing that's hard is like actually just bringing the barricades out every day and putting that in your schedule and lugging them, they're kind of heavy. Um, and so we're having a permanent swing gate, um, first of its kind, um, on a street in New York. Obviously, this has to pass review- ... and we're still in that process. They have those in parks. They have one in Forest Park. They have one in Van Cortlandt Park. Um, but they don't really have them on streets, so that's gonna be a really exciting pilot and think how we can scale that.

Um, and we also are gonna have street seats, um, so there's permanent seating for kids to be able to sit and eat and finally gather. Um, and then we'll also have curb extensions to make it just a little safer to cross the street itself, it is a really busy street, um, and hopefully add some public art in those curb extensions too. 

Olivia: Uh, this is so inspiring. It's like the possibilities, and I love that you're really not scared or there's - it's almost a no fear approach. Like, let's try it. Let's see what's possible. Yeah. Um, I [00:09:00] wanna talk about the bureaucratic battle, I'll call it, because this is not easy, and you really have to have a lot of hands shaking and communication going. So, Mayor Mamdani is proposing an opt-out School Streets program. What would happen? What would the impact be if that goes through? 

Sabina: I personally would really be excited about that. That's definitely something we've thought about at Open Plans. I know people have mixed feelings about it in this world because I think it's important for people to say like, "Are schools prepared for this kind of program?" Um, but I think one of the biggest things that school administrators say to me when I'm talking to them about this program is, "I've never heard of it before." And so being able to just tell schools that this program exists, um, and do it at a scale of like every school, I think would, would be like a, a lightning difference or whatever the expression is. Lightning in a bottle? Night and day? 

Olivia: [00:10:00] Yeah. It'd be amazing.

Sabina: But I think just like that would be really amazing for outreach. I think a bigger collaboration with DOE. DOE is obviously part of this program, and I think there are people within DOE, Department of Education, that are like really excited about it. But I think an even more robust collaboration would really serve schools because they obviously have this like stronger relationship with schools and, um, more knowledge of like what's happening on the ground, and in particular, more knowledge of like staffing, both constraints, UFT union rules, what is also just like a reasonable ask for a school administrator and staff member, and, um, who actually should be and can be doing this within a school. So I think the opt-in/opt-out will also bridge that gap between the DOE and DOT. 

Olivia: That makes sense. And you, uh, have really given a lot of great reasons why scaling itself is hard. 

Sabina: Yeah. 

Olivia: I am so excited about the DOT approval of 30 million last year. Um, what would you say if Mamdani reached out to you [00:11:00] and said, "Every street in front of a school is going to be a School Street. What do we need to do first?" 

Sabina: Well, thanks for asking me, Mayor Mamdani. Really great to meet you. Um, well, I've been waiting for you to call. Um I would say the first thing that you need to do is have some permanent signage. It sounds really small, but it's something that every school I work with asks me. And we make, you know, paper signs, we laminate them, we put them on barricades. They do not look official 'cause they're not. They're signs that we made or signs the school's made. And so having official signage that says clearly, "This is a city program These are the hours of operation. You can't park here unless it's, like, an emergency," and negotiating the rules of that street. I think signage would be a really good first step that would be low cost and really high impact. And then my bigger ask would be, and can there be dedicated staff members that you hire?

Maybe that's through school sustainability programs, maybe that's through the PE, [00:12:00] maybe that's through another admin. But can you have a s- a staff member that is in charge of this public space management and, like, moving the barricades, programming events, interfacing with teachers, doing that work internally? That would be my second big ask. And then the third big ask is, and now let's go crazy. Let's have some permanent infrastructure. Let's have gates and, um, street treatments and, uh, repave the street and put some public art there and street seats. But I think you could really start with a sign. 

Olivia: I love it. Um, let's go to vision. What is the vision for the future of School Streets? 

Sabina: It'd be really great to see it scale. Um, the program has, you know, it, it decreased and then it had increased in 2025 a little bit, but the program is still under 100, well under 100. Um, and um, I think both, like, obviously increasing the scale of the program quite significantly, but also making it easier for schools to do it. So it makes me really sad when schools stop using their School Street and, you know, not for [00:13:00] reasons like, "We were under construction, so we used our School Street, but now we have our gym back, so we don't need to use it." Schools that were like, "This is just really challenging," or the outreach burden was too high. I'll help schools do things like door knock and talk to the FDNY, all that kind of stuff. But those kind of things seem like real, real challenges and real barriers. And so I would, uh, in my ideal version, both increase it and make sure, like, the same schools are participating consistently and not lagging from the program.

Olivia: Yeah. It's interesting. I've thought too, um, after researching, it would be wonderful to have schools also share their amazing experiences with you and spread the word on your behalf. I was psyched to get the email asking for you to, to uplift this work on the podcast and get the word out. You've also been featured in The New York Times, on AM New York, Streetsblog, and presented at the International Placemaking Week at Pratt. This is a movement. One way to scale a movement is by getting the word [00:14:00] out there. Um, what else do you hope, like who are you in touch with to scale this work? 

Sabina: Well, we definitely talked to people in Paris, and we're like, "What, how did you scale this kind of program?" And it really helps that they had like a couple hundred million dollars- 

Olivia: Yeah

Sabina: Or euros to do this kind of work. That would be awesome if we had dedicated funding from the city. Um, we're definitely advocating for that on the city council and admin level. That's a promise that, uh, Mayor Mamdani made during his campaign that we're so excited to uplift. Um, and yes, and, and make it happen in the near-term future. So, um, that's definitely something that we're trying to amplify, um, and talk about. I think something that is tricky is we have school administrators that are really enthusiastic about the program and really happy about our work, but I think with DOE press restraints, for, um... It kinda makes it harder for them to talk to the press and the public.

Olivia: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. 

Sabina: Um, we're- And like sign on to like advocating, like, you know, sign-on letters and [00:15:00] things like that. And so we're trying to be creative about thinking of ways where we can like... You actually really need to hear what school administrators are saying, both good and bad. Things that like they absolutely love about this program and things that like, actually, we need to change and modify this. And I think press stories and social media posts, those are actually really good ways of getting a lot of people to hear those things rather than like a Zoom. Oh, uh, so that's kind of been like a, a small random hurdle about like ways to amplify people who are like actually bringing the barricades out every day.

Olivia: So I want listeners to know I will tuck links to all of the goodness that you've shared in the show notes. What is the best way to get in touch with you and your team? 

Sabina: Send me an email, sabina@openplans.org. Um, I used to put my cell phone number on all of our flyers too, because I'm like, "Whatever you need to do to reach me." But then, you know, you get complaining neighbors, which is like fine and kind of interesting, but at a certain point it's a bad idea to put your cell phone on a flyer, [00:16:00] as my mom has told me. Um, and so yeah, send me an email if you're a school that wants to apply, if you're someone who wants to volunteer, if you're someone who's just interested in, um, advocating for the cause, please send me an email. We'll talk next week. I'm, I'm very free next week. 

Olivia: Awesome. And it- you can also field donations as well, yes? 

Sabina: I think, yeah, Open Plans can totally. Yeah 

Olivia: Okay. All right. Um, you are an amazing person. I am so lucky that our paths have crossed- 

Sabina: You too 

Olivia: And I cannot wait to uplift the work you're doing. Um, you are kicking off a series of conversations around centering community, school, children, families' voices, and I cannot think of a better person to kick off the month of May around that work. So, thank you, Sabina. 

Sabina: I'm so honored to be part of the conversation and I can't wait to listen to everyone else. And also shout-out to Olivia for having the most thoughtful, well-researched um, diligent questions. It was really, really fun getting to gab with [00:17:00] you about this program. 

Olivia: It was. It was, and I think listeners are going to just find this so exciting and, um, inspiring as well. Take care, Sabina. 

Sabina: Yay. 

Olivia: That is a wrap on part two of my conversation with Sabina Sethi Unni, and what a way to open this month's focus on centering community, children, and families in education. Here are three of my key takeaways from part two: cold outreach doesn't always work, relationships do. Sabina's most successful school partnerships start with a parent, a council member's constituent services staffer, or a community organization who already sees the need and opens the door. Second, Clarkson Street, home to two co-located schools with no gym, no auditorium, and a lobby doubling as a karate studio and a theater rehearsal. This story is proof that even the hardest physical and logistical conditions can [00:18:00] become a thriving community hub with the right support and permanent infrastructure. My third takeaway: scaling School Streets citywide is possible, but it has to start small. Official signage, dedicated staff, and permanent infrastructure like swing gates and street seats are the practical building blocks of a movement.

I am hoping this conversation resonated with you, and that you will share it. Share it with a principal, a PTA board, a council member. You can find Sabina at sabina@openplans.org. You can follow Open Plans's work online and find links to the School Streets toolkit, press features, and how to get involved in the show notes 

Coming up next week on Schoolutions, ELA teacher and climate educator Xochitl Bentley proves that the English classroom might be the most powerful place to tackle the climate crisis. And she has the framework, the Fulbright, and the book to back it up. [00:19:00] Tune in to hear how storytelling, environmental justice, and SEL come together in Xochitl's book, Helping Students Become Climate Stewards: Storytelling for Environmental Advocacy and Problem Solving. 

Schoolutions podcast is created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who creates the music playing in the background. You can follow and listen to Schoolutions wherever you get your podcasts, or subscribe to never miss an episode and watch on YouTube. Thank you to my guest, Sabina Sethi Unni for reminding us that the streets in front of our schools are some of the most contested and underutilized spaces in our cities, and reclaiming them for children isn't just a transportation fix, it's a community transformation.

Reach out to me at www.oliviawahl.com if you'd like a thought partner to help you cultivate curious learners who advocate for what they believe in. And don't forget to tune [00:20:00] in every Monday and Friday for part one and two of my guest conversations with the best evidence-based, classroom-ready strategies that you can apply right away to better the lives of the children in your care. Your 60-second bite-sized piece of learning from our conversation will be waiting for you on Wednesdays to share with a colleague. Take care, and thank you for forever getting better with me. See you next week.