The Secret to Student-Centered Math Instruction

What if the most powerful thing you could do for your child's math future this summer had nothing to do with worksheets or tutoring?

In Part 1 of this week's S5E42 Schoolutions conversation, Wendy Ward Hoffer, author of All Minds on Mathematics: Math Workshop for Every Learner, shares a simple but radical idea: math identity is built in the everyday moments most of us are already living.

In this episode you'll learn:
• Why being good at math is not about speed or correct answers
• What a child who says "I hate math" is really saying
• How to find math everywhere this summer, at no cost

Wendy believes math education is a powerful lever for equity in education and inclusive teaching. Her work spans classroom belonging, culturally responsive teaching, and building a pro-kid mindset that honors every learner's thinking, not just the fast or the "correct" ones. Our conversation continues with Part 2 on Friday, where Wendy offers a full summer playbook for families and educators. Don't miss it!

Some resources mentioned:
📚 Book: All Minds on Mathematics: Math Workshop for Every Learner
🌐 Organization: Public Education Business Coalition (PEBC)
💫Blog Post: "Math: Why Doesn't Yours Look Like Mine?"
💫Upcoming Professional Development: Minds on Math Institute
💫Study Guide for All Minds on Math

Chapters:
0:00 Introduction & what you'll learn
1:40 About Wendy Ward Hoffer & All Minds on Mathematics
2:45 Researcher inspiration: John Holt & trusting children
3:45 Why summer is an underutilized math opportunity
5:20 Reframing what it means to be good at math
6:50 Math workshop & student math identity
8:00 What teachers & families should listen for (signs of negative math identity)
9:30 Coaching kids to help each other without doing the work for them
11:00 Sending kids off as mathematicians — what teachers can say
12:40 Math detectives: finding math everywhere this summer
13:10 Lightning round — best road trip math game
14:00 "I hate math" really means...
14:15 The kitchen as a math workshop
14:55 Most underestimated free summer math activity
15:35 One word for every student entering September
16:20 Olivia's 3 big takeaways
17:50 Preview of Part 2

Schoolutions is the podcast for educators and school leaders, families and homeschoolers, and the coaches, counselors, and mentors who believe every student deserves to thrive. Join our community of educators committed to cultivating student success, inspired teaching, and creating inclusive classrooms with a pro-kid mindset focused on the whole child.

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🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

Don't forget to 🔔SUBSCRIBE for more teaching tips, and 💬SHARE the episode! 

#MathIdentity #StudentEngagement #InclusiveTeaching #MathWorkshop #SummerLearning #TeachingTips #EquityInEducation #ProKidMindset #StudentMotivation #ClassroomBelonging #ActiveLearning #InstructionalCoaching #SchoolCulture #FamilyPartnerships #CulturallyResponsiveTeaching #EducationLeadership #AllMindsOnMath #Schoolutions #MathForKids #empowerededucators #schoolutions #schoolutionspodcast #forevergettingbetter #curiositydriven #evidencebasedstrategies #classroomreadystrategies

When coaches, teachers, administrators, and families work hand in hand, it fosters a school atmosphere where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged in their learning journey.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] What if the most powerful thing you could do for your child's math future this summer had nothing to do with worksheets, apps, or tutoring? Wendy Ward Hoffer, author of All Minds on Mathematics: Math Workshop for Every Learner, joins us today with a simple but radical idea: Math identity is built in the everyday moments most of us are already living. In this episode, you'll learn why being good at math is not about speed or correct answers, what a child who says, "I hate math," is really saying, and how you can find math everywhere this summer. This is Schoolutions, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical, try-it-tomorrow approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and [00:01:00] receives the support they need to thrive. 

I am Olivia Wahl, and I am so happy to have Wendy Ward Hoffer with me today on the podcast. Uh, let me tell you a little bit about Wendy. Wendy Ward Hoffer is the senior director of content development and publications at PEBC, also known as the Public Education Business Coalition. Wendy believes that math education is a powerful lever for civil rights activism. Whether she is teaching, writing one of her six, yes, six inspirational books, or leading professional learning workshops, Wendy is fiercely dedicated to helping educators create learning spaces and environments that truly honor student thinking. Our conversation today and also part two will focus on Wendy's recently released book. I have it right here, Wendy. It's gorgeous. It's just such a great read. All Minds on Mathematics: Math Workshop for Every Learner. Um, we are [00:02:00] framing this conversation for both teachers and families as a summer guide to ensuring all children keep their math identity growing and flowing over the summer. Thank you, Wendy, for taking the time to have this conversation. 

Wendy: Thank you for having me. 

Olivia: Yeah. I like to start every conversation with a piece of research or a researcher that truly inspires you when it comes to the work that you write about. Would you share that with listeners? 

Wendy: Oh, there are so many. Um, recently though, I was reading a book by John Holt, who's a educator, um, from the previous century, uh, who really actually promoted homeschooling, which I'm not necessarily pro-proponent of, but he was writing about the importance of trusting children. And, uh, that's the bottom line of everything he does. He says, "Trust children." It- nothing could be so easy or so difficult because to trust [00:03:00] children, we need to trust ourselves, and many of us were taught, I'm paraphrasing, many of us were taught that we could not be trusted. I just think it's an interesting notion to consider what schools and education would look like if we really believed in children as our bottom line.

Olivia: Yeah. I think that's a beautiful way to open the conversation, and I also think that so many times we don't want to overload children over the summer because they've put so much hard work in, uh, during the days of the school year, and yet summer is often such an underutilized opportunity when it comes to math in general. Why is it such an underutilized opportunity? 

Wendy: That's a great question. I mean, when I think about reading, we have a lot of summer reading programs and a lot of parents who dive right in to read with their kids and take them to the library and these things, and [00:04:00] I just don't think there's as much institutional support around math learning across the summer. And also, I notice families often have less confidence, some of us, um, as with our math as we might with our reading. Um, but I think there's a huge opportunity here. I mean, the number one standard for math practice is make sense of problems and persevere in solving them. They don't even need to be math problems, just problems, and that's a huge opportunity I think we have as families to look for ways we can promote our students' identities as problem-solvers.

Olivia: Yeah. And you're walking in my mind because that idea of making sense was something that I wanted you to speak to because it isn't just math specifically, but that idea of giving kids projects to work through and to just explain their thinking aloud. That's something I find with many mathematicians, regardless of [00:05:00] their age. We really want children to be able to explain the way that they're navigating different problems, um, and break it down step by step so we can know where they need support. Wendy, I also think it's such an opportunity to help children bolster their learner identity, specifically their math identity, as they're working through problems and making sense. How can families and teachers set children up for success to develop their math identity? 

Wendy: Yeah. I mean, I think the, the folly of math identity has been that being good at math means being quick and being right. And yet what we know from some of the greatest mathematical geniuses of all time, that they really dwell with their ideas and ponder and think deeply and reflect and come at things from a variety of angles. And so I think part of our opportunity is sort of [00:06:00] reframe what it means to be good at math and show kids that it's about, um, coming at problems in different ways and representing their thinking in, in different, uh, different manners. And with that, uh, it's really important to just honor students' ideas, not necessarily rush to the end, but like, how might we think about this? How could we draw this? How could we model this? What do you understand about this? And maybe there's some parts they haven't understood yet, but not to worry about that so far, but stick with what are we getting right? What are we making meaning of? And springboard off that into greater confidence. 

Olivia: Why is math workshop such a perfect opportunity then to offer children the chance to develop their math identity, and then also I know teachers can listen in to kids at work?

Wendy: Yeah, the heart of math workshop is math work [00:07:00] time, where students are getting to grapple with challenging tasks and collaborate and converse, share their thinking, reflect on the thinking of others, and all these activities are about that process of meaning-making in a community setting. And so these are places where students can grow their ideas and grow their confidence with the support of a positive community of learners, a reflective teacher that's willing to honor ideas no matter whether they're fully formed yet or perfect yet, but just honor that willingness, um, to put ourselves out there as mathematicians.

Olivia: I can picture a math workshop ensuing and the teacher listening in on group conversations or individual conferences with students, and often it's not as clear-cut as a student saying, "I hate math" or "I'm not as good-- I'm not a good mathematician." What [00:08:00] should families, what should teachers listen for that could give a glimpse into a student possibly having a negative math identity?

Wendy: Hmm. Great question. Um, yeah, I think there are those kids that say, "I hate math." There's even those grownups that say, "I hate math," and teachers that'll say, "I hate math." And I'm so sorry, um, to all those folks because something happened to us, right? Yeah. Something happened to them that created that stance. Um, and yet you're right. There are the shyer haters among us, you know, maybe the kids who are reluctant to pick up the pencil or fall silent in a group or, um, maybe the helpless hand-raisers that just won't start without someone right at their side, uh, offering support. Um, sometimes there's tears or avoidance or running to the drinking fountain. But, um, s- s- so much of this came from negative experiences with math that I think can be addressed by creating positive [00:09:00] experiences and opportunities for students to, uh, to experience success and creativity as mathematicians. 

Olivia: Yeah. It, it's so well said, and something I've always been fascinated when I am in classrooms is how children interact, and it, it always goes back to math of that idea of being right, which you already spoke to. And so I think it's also such an opportunity with math workshop in particular to teach children how to help each other without doing the work for each other. But Wendy, it goes right back to what you said about trusting. If we don't trust ourselves, if we don't show children as adults how to help each other without doing it for someone, they won't be able to. So what is your sage wisdom, uh, uh, or advice? How can teachers coach children to help each other without doing the work for each other? 

Wendy: Hmm, that's such a great question, right? 'Cause [00:10:00] nobody wants to just sit there and be told how to do it. 

Olivia: Right. 

Wendy: Um, one of the superpowers that I think teachers have is that opportunity to confer with students, um, during a math workshop to move about and invite students to share their thinking and ask questions like, "Help me understand where you're thinking. Can you show me another way? Uh, where did you get stuck?" You know, these kinds of questions that we use as adults as we confer can also be used by children as they coach their classmates. And so what I've noticed in classrooms where this level of conferring is alive and well is that the kids just by osmosis, uh, start using these kinds of probing questions to encourage and support their classmates.

Olivia: That also would make me feel so much better if I am a caregiver listening to this conversation, because it's not necessarily about having the correct answer. Sadly or not, many of us could just [00:11:00] Google or put the math into AI and it can be done, but it's much more about the bigger understanding and the thinking behind the math. I have an older son who is going into his sophomore year as an aeronautical engineer, and he was explaining that it's not as much about memorizing every formula or the math necessarily, it's, it's the different way of framing the problem, and then i- it, it's just a different way of thinking. And, and I find that so fascinating. Um, before, uh, we wrap part one, I wanted to send a love letter to teachers and families and send children off successfully as mathematicians. What could teachers say to families and to their children to just get them excited about continuing math over the summer? 

Wendy: Hmm. I think the greatest gift that teachers can give kids is just that, [00:12:00] uh, that confidence in them. Like, "I know you're a problem-solver. I know you're gonna go out there and see math everywhere, and I wanna encourage you to seize those moments and play and experience that wonder and joy and beauty as a problem-solver." And just, uh, remind them that we believe in them. I think that's the, the most important message.

Olivia: I love that idea too, though, of letting them know math is everywhere. It's not just within the walls of our classrooms. And so it, it would be really fascinating. It would be so cool to do a neighborhood walkabout and to look where they see math, uh, a- and just to kind of catalog that as almost a scavenger hunt that they could create for their families. That would be really interesting. 

Wendy: Absolutely. The math detectives, the math journal, find the math. That's such a great challenge for the summer. Um, that yes, let's all do that. 

Olivia: Let's all do that. Uh, we're gonna end part one with a lightning round. I have five [00:13:00] questions for you. Just respond with your gut instinct. Um, and I think they'll be really helpful for families over the summer. What is the best math game families can play on a road trip? 

Wendy: Ooh, good question. Um, math game. Okay. Uh, make a number. My number is 11. How would you make 11? 

Olivia: Oh, that's so good. 

Wendy: You got, you got an answer? 

Olivia: Oh, do I have an answer? Yeah. Yeah. I would do five and six. Five plus six. Okay. 

Wendy: Great, and I would do 22 divided by two. What else would you do? 

Olivia: I would do five plus five plus one. 

Wendy: Oh, I love that one. I might do the square root of 121. 

Olivia: Your examples are much better-

Wendy: We can do this all day- 

Olivia:... than mine do 

Wendy:... right? We could. We can make 11 all the way across Kansas, and then when we get done with 11, we can make 92. Whatever it is. 

Olivia: I love it. I wanna do that today. I-- This is exciting. Um, a student that says or a child that [00:14:00] says, "I hate math," is really saying... Finish that sentence… 

Wendy: I'm afraid of being wrong or not being good enough, and I need your support.

Olivia: Yeah.

Wendy: That's what they're saying. 

Olivia: Yeah. What's one thing in every kitchen that is a secret math tool?

Wendy: Oh my gosh. The kitchen is a math workshop. I'll just say that. It is. Um, I mean, grab a spoon, stir. How many beats can you stir? Or if you're older, how many beats per second can you stir? Don't use the mixer. Stir it all by hand, and then you can count and you can multiply. Of course, there's measuring cups. We can, uh, do some, uh, multiplying recipes. It's timing, temperature. You-- The whole kitchen, you got- Whole kitchen ... you got math right there. 

Olivia: It, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful opportunity. Um, what's the most underestimated math activity that families can do over the summer at no cost? 

Wendy: Hmm. [00:15:00] At no cost. Okay. Pay in cash. Pay for everything in cash. Stop using your card. Stop using your Apple Pay. Get cash from the bank. Use it at every store. Let your kid count the coins out, do the subtraction, do the addition, tell you if you got ripped off. 

Olivia: Brilliant. Brilliant. Uh, what is one word you hope every student enters September feeling as a mathematician?

Wendy: Only one word? 

Olivia: Only one. 

Wendy: Um, curious. 

Olivia: Ooh, I love it. I thought you were gonna say confident, but I made you say only one word, so there you go. 

Wendy: I was gonna say confident and competent and enthusiastic, but I went with curious. My colleague Jeff Kazier says being curious makes us powerful. 

Olivia: Mmmmm. 

Wendy: That was the enduring understanding for his entire seventh grade team for many years.

Olivia: I love it. I love it. Thank you for this part one [00:16:00] conversation. Part two, we're going to create a playbook for teachers and families over the summer to ensure that they feel set up for success. Um, Wendy, thank you, and I look forward to part two of our conversation. 

Wendy: Thank you. 

Olivia: That is a wrap on part one with Wendy Ward Hoffer, and I hope you are already looking at your kitchen, your car, and your next road trip a little bit differently.

The best math your child does this summer might never look like math at all, and that is entirely the point. I'll leave you with three of my big takeaways from this conversation with Wendy. First, being good at math is not about speed or correct answers. It's about curiosity and persistence. The greatest mathematical thinkers dwell with problems. They come at them from multiple angles and represent their thinking in different ways. When we reframe this for children, we change everything about how they see themselves as learners. 

Second, [00:17:00] a child who says, "I hate math", is really saying, "I'm afraid of being wrong, and I need your support." Whether it's avoidance, silence, or a hand always raised, these are signals, not character traits, and they can be addressed by creating consistent positive experiences where thinking is honored before answers are.

Third, math is everywhere this summer, and you don't even need to call it math. A road trip game making the number 11 every way imaginable, paying for things with cash and counting change, stirring a batter and counting the beats per second. These are all invitations for children to experience themselves as capable, creative thinkers.

Don't forget to come back for part two, where Wendy and I build out the full summer playbook. What to say instead of, "I didn't learn it this way", how you can help a child who had a really rough year rebuild their math identity, and Wendy's beautiful vision [00:18:00] for what it looks and feels like when a teacher has truly brought every mind into math. You do not wanna miss it, and I can't wait to have you join us on Friday.