Reclaiming Joy: The Blueprint Resilient Educators Follow

What does it look like when education is built around the full humanity of every child and every teacher?

In Part 1 of my S5E43 Schoolutions conversation, I sit down with Cornelius Minor⁩  (author of We Got This) and Dr. Kass Minor (author of Teaching Fiercely), co-founders of The Minor Collective. Together, they unpack what it really means to build a pro-kid mindset, reclaim teacher personhood, and find beauty in the mess of modern schooling.

You'll learn:
→ How curriculum audits center the human, not the framework
→ Why community is the one thing that's truly unshakable
→ What student engagement and student motivation really look like when teachers do the work alongside students
→ How active learning and inclusive teaching shift school culture
→ Why whole child thinking transforms everything from lesson planning to school leadership

Cornelius and Kass also share how The Minor Collective approaches teacher coaching, professional learning, and instructional leadership with a fiercely humanistic lens: relational, critical, adaptive, and responsive.

Some resources mentioned:

• ➡️ We Got This by Cornelius Minor
• ➡️ Teaching Fiercely by Dr. Kass Minor
• ➡️ The Minor Collective
• ➡️ Maxine Greene / aesthetic education
• ➡️ Nothing Personal by James Baldwin (on personhood)
• ➡️ The Will to Change by bell hooks (on change)
• ➡️Minor, K. (2025, December 1). Illuminating the call: Thought sanctuary as a framework for teacher flourishing: Cultivating imagination and inquiry within the parameters of school. Voices in the Middle, 33(2)
• ➡️Minor, K. (2025, September 1). Illuminating the Call: Fierce pedagogy: blueprints for a better future. Voices in the Middle, 33(1)

Chapters:
0:00 Intro: What does education built around full humanity look like?
2:15 Researcher inspirations: Maxine Greene, James Baldwin, bell hooks
3:45 Reclaiming your personhood as a teacher
5:10 Community is what's unshakable; lessons from those who've surfed the shifts
6:15 Curriculum audits that center the human; The Minor Collective approach
9:00 Teachers doing the student work themselves; street credit and trust
10:15 The new Minor Collective site; going far together
13:00 Lightning round: books, metaphors, and what teachers need right now
15:20 One word for teachers + finishing the sentence on centering children
16:00 Small things giving hope; joy at the school dance
17:10 Wrap-up + Olivia's son and the joy of reading

Schoolutions is the podcast for educators and school leaders, families and homeschoolers, and the coaches, counselors, and mentors who believe every student deserves to thrive. Join our community of educators committed to cultivating student success, inspired teaching, and creating inclusive classrooms with a pro-kid mindset focused on the whole child.

🌿Ready to grow alongside your children? Book a coaching session with me here. We'll unlock the expert who is already within you and surround you with a community of educators committed to forever getting better through collective expertise.
🎵 Music: Benjamin Wahl

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#education #teachers #schoolculture #teachercoaching #instructionalcoaching #inclusiveteaching #culturallyresponsiveteaching #equityineducation #teachingfiercely #minorcollective #professionaldevelopment #schoolleadership #newteachers #studentengagement #schoolutions #schoolutionspodcast #forevergettingbetter #curiositydriven #evidencebasedstrategies #classroomreadystrategies

When teachers, coaches, administrators, and families grow together, they create schools where everyone is inspired and every student is fully engaged, supported, and ready to thrive.

Transcript

Olivia: [00:00:00] What happens when two educators who've spent careers fighting for children's full humanity sit down to talk about joy, ferocity, and what it means to keep going when the ground keeps shifting? Today, I am in conversation with Cornelius and Dr. Kass Minor. Cornelius is the author of We Got This. Kass is the author of Teaching Fiercely. They are co-founders of the Minor Collective. In this episode, you will learn how to reclaim your personhood, why community is what's unshakable, and how curriculum audits center the human. This is part one of a two-part conversation that I promise will leave you thinking, feeling, and maybe even marveling at the world around you.

This is Schoolutions, the podcast that extends education beyond the classroom. A show that isn't just theory, but practical try-it-tomorrow [00:01:00] approaches for educators and caregivers to ensure every student finds their spark and receives the support they need to thrive. I'm Olivia Wahl, and I'm thrilled to be here today with Cornelius and Kass Minor. I want to start with a question: What does it look like when education is built around the full humanity of every child and every teacher? Cornelius and Dr. Kass Minor have spent years answering this question on the ground, in classrooms and communities across three continents. Kass is the author of Teaching Fiercely, Cornelius is the author of We Got This. I have both of your books right here. They are gorgeous, and I love them, and I use them all the time. You can see all the Post-its. Um, together, they are the co-founders of The Minor Collective, a community-based consultancy established in 2018 to make sure that school is a place where students are centered. This is a two-part [00:02:00] conversation about hope, humanity, and what it feels like to joyfully sustain teaching even in times like now. Kass and Cornelius, welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm so happy to be in conversation with you. 

Kass: We are so happy to be here. Thanks for having us. 

Cornelius: Liv, it's such an extreme honor to be with you.

Olivia: Well, let's jump right in. Um, I usually start with a piece of research or a researcher that is inspiring you right now. And so Kass, can you start for us? 

Kass: Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, I have really been revisiting Maxine Greene's work on aesthetic education. Um, I think that there's a lot to be said for appreciating what's beautiful surrounding the teaching and learning process, and she is somebody who I've really been diving into over these past few months.

Olivia: Awesome. Cornelius, how about you? 

Cornelius: And for me, it's, it's twins. I could never do one. So on the one hand, um, it is James Baldwin. I have [00:03:00] been really thinking about what it means to hold onto my personhood. You know, as I mature in this profession, there's so much that can erode one's personhood. Um, and so I've been looking to James Baldwin as I seek to hold onto my own. And then I've been thinking lots about bell hooks and about how men change. You know, I am now a late career educator. I just turned 48, and I don't wanna be the same guy. And so really thinking about what it means to change. 

Olivia: Cornelius, uh, I also just recently turned 48, and I'm loving evolving, and one of the things that you've said for a long time is that you bring pens to sword fights, and you've been doing it since 1978. So what is the sword fight you see that we are fighting right now? 

Cornelius: I think right now, um, and this is really close to the heart, so we're diving right into it. But I think right now we've been conditioned to believe that we are cogs running some machine. You know, that there's this [00:04:00] guilt that settles in when you don't get all the things on the checklist done, or this fear when the principal walks into the room, or this shame when a kid doesn't do as well on an assessment as you hoped that they would. Um, and I'm really just trying to see the person in all of those interactions and in all of that labor. Um, somehow labor has become divorced from our bodies, and labor has become this thing that belongs to institutions and to, you know, corporate systems, you know, from curriculum to how teachers spend their time. And so I'm really just thinking about how we take it all back and how this labor, you know, comes from our hearts and stays there. 

Olivia: Oh, that's beautiful. And I also-- You know, you talk about showing up with ideas, with inquiry. What does that look and feel like right now when it feels like the ground is shifting under our feet all the time?

Cornelius: You know, um, I try to look to the past and to our ancestors, you know, and I think that the ground has shifted [00:05:00] around so many folks for so long. So if you are indigenous or Black or a woman or queer, um, the ground has been shifting in ways that are both, like, unsettling and life-threatening. And so I've been thinking about what are the lessons that we learn from people who, who surf these shifts and who are able to not just survive but thrive.

Um, and for me, the one lesson that I keep relearning, um, is to look to the community around me, that we are all, like, being shaken by these changes. But the thing that is consistently unshakable, um, are the bonds among teachers, the bonds between, you know, communities of students and their parents, um, the bonds between, like, practitioners and their study. And so I've really been thinking about how am I in community, um, and though the world may shake, I often find that communities don't. 

Olivia: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Um, I, I [00:06:00] wanna think a little bit too, um, you started The Minor Collective eight years ago, and, you know, Kass, with your curriculum audits, what I find really fascinating is that they reveal aspects of the education system that standard frameworks just don't. Um, can you illuminate that a little bit, speak to that for listeners? 

Kass: Sure. Um, if you are talking about the curricular audits where I really have teachers analyze the standard and ask themselves like, what-- first of all, like, what am I teaching? Why am I teaching it? And what are the content, habit, and skills my students need to possess in order to, you know, reach this objective?

I think what it reveals about our work just as human beings and how we learn is that there's so much of that that is not really considered when, uh, when a boxed curriculum or, or somebody else is writing the curriculum that you are instructed to [00:07:00] teach, right? And so, you know, I remember, oh, this is about a year ago. I was working with a, a beautiful school here in Brooklyn, and we as a-- we, myself, Cornelius was there too, and their math department got together and we did the curricular audit that I have in Teaching Fiercely, which, you know, asked those questions. And it's very rare when school communities will engage in that kind of work, really ask themselves those questions.

When they really analyze those questions alongside student data, not just like the hard metrics, but also like the qualitative like stories and circumstances that their kids are coming to their classroom spaces with. And it was both the most challenging work that I've seen teachers engage in in a long time, and also teachers left that space feeling so fulfilled in how they were spending their time because they were treated, you know, Cornelius talked about, you know, personhood becoming divorced [00:08:00] from, you know, who we are as professionals.

And I feel like when people have those experiences, when teachers are able to exercise not just, like, their intellectual part of who they are, but also, like, this knowledge that they carry with them from their lives and the witnessings they have of students and their families, like, that's the alchemy that we really seek. I think that when I say we, you know, people who have the shared value that we wanna be as humanistic as possible in our work. What does that mean? I think that's the work that we covet, and I think that's the work that we can get to, but it definitely takes a lot more courage to engage in that kind of work now than it did, you know, say five years ago.

Olivia: It, it does. And I would also say it really does go back to centering children. And what I have found profound, especially in middle and high schools these days, is asking teachers to almost unzip their brains so they're answering your [00:09:00] questions, but also it's that thinking process of, you know, what does it look and feel like to respond to this question as an adult?

And then what would I expect kids to sound like when they're responding to this? Just that proactive think through. I, I've also been in classrooms where the teachers are doing the work too, that they're asking students to do. And the teachers have been able to say, um, "Well, I'm an expert in Global 2. It took me 30 minutes to try this. It's probably gonna take you a little bit longer." And the street credit that it got that teacher for doing the work, that is another way, I think, of showing that we value. We're not just throwing activities at kids. We are doing really important work that we value so much we want to try it ourselves before we're asking you to embark upon.

Um, it just, it's all together. So I really appreciate that, Kass. Um, I would ask too, let, let's talk website [00:10:00] refresh a little bit. 

Kass: Ha. 

Olivia: It's beautiful. I love the branding, the colors. It's just so welcoming, and there are many, many offerings. And so Kass, I'll follow up with you. You know, what offerings, what philosophies did you really want to feel front and center when people go to the refreshed Minor Collective site?

Kass: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking that question. It certainly is a labor of love- It is ... to, you know, refresh, uh, you know, who you are on the, on the digital page. I think more than anything, Cornelius and I hope that people understand that more than anything we believe in people more than we believe in ideas, ideology, or frameworks. And that is something that we hope has been infused throughout the full website. And I think, you know, what is unique and we hope becomes less unique in the work that Cornelius and I do is we've really approached transforming school culture from, you know, multiple facets: from the classroom, from [00:11:00] teacher conversations.

But we also do so in a way that's really, really humanistic. We are centering the people. And what I mean by that, um, you know, we are relational, we are critical, we are adaptive, and we're also incredibly responsive. You know, as we just spoke about a few minutes ago, like the, the foundation in which we walk in school spaces is consistently like, it's almost like you're walking in a fun house.

Olivia: It is. 

Kass: Like, you know, what's up is down, what's right is left. And so, you know, we are really nimble people, and we understand that, you know, there's not really, um, any one framework or any, any one theory that you can apply other than that, we, we truly believe that we're in this together and that we can center children in the decisions that we make, and that alone has the power to transform how people experience school.

Olivia: Oh, it sure does. Uh, Cornelius, too, what does the new site say about where The Minor Collective is headed? 

Cornelius: [00:12:00] Hmm. Well, I think we are headed where teachers are headed. We are headed where children and families are headed. And when you think about what education is becoming right now, it can sometimes feel really scary. Um, you know, that conversations about student growth and about teacher effectiveness have become, you know, conversations about kid obedience and teacher compliance, you know? And that can feel scary if you go alone. Um, and what we're trying to really communicate to folks is that we are not alone, that we want to go together. Um, I am always thinking, you know, my, my father used to say to me all the time that, you know, "If you wanna go quickly, go alone, but if you wanna go far, go together." Um, and so I think that our site says we want to go far. 

Olivia: Yeah. I, I couldn't agree more. Um, I, I- when I look at the site, there's also joy, and the, it, not just through the [00:13:00] colors, but just the different ways that you frame opportunities to be in conversation and partnership with teachers, with community, with each other. Um, you, you walk the walk, and that's what I love about both of you so very much. Um, we're gonna wrap part one with a lightning round, so get ready. I'm going to alternate between each of you. I have, I think, pretty fun questions. Uh, give your gut response. Kass, what is the best book you have read recently that has nothing to do with education?

Kass: Oh, The Antidote. 

Olivia: All right. There we go. Um, Cornelius, Pokémon or Dungeons & Dragons: which feels like a great metaphor for teaching right now? 

Cornelius: The metaphor for teaching right now, um, is Dungeons & Dragons. Um, it is really chart your own path, try anything, observe results, fail, try again. 

Olivia: Oh. Yeah. Love it. Um- [00:14:00] 

Kass: The inquiry process. He just said the inquiry process.

Olivia: Yes, he did. There you go. There you go. Dungeons & Dragons, inquiry process: parallel worlds. 

Cornelius: Yes. 

Olivia: Uh, Kass, what is one word that teachers are feeling right now? 

Kass: Okay. Um, I'm gonna just twist the question. I'm gonna give you the inverse, and I'm gonna say I want teachers to feel more whimsical in what they're doing in June. That's what I want for them. I'm gonna just manifest it. 

Olivia: That's okay. I like it. Um, Cornelius, what would you tell your first-year teacher self, looking back right now? 

Cornelius: Go slow. Um, th- there's a lot to experience, and there's even more to do. Um, and the demand to do it all or to experience it all, um, stay up late, miss sleep, miss out on moments, that push is very real. And so first-year teacher Cornelius, um, 26th-year teacher Cornelius, both of those guys need to go [00:15:00] slow. 

Olivia: Yeah. I, I, I agree. And balance, life is about balance. It's important. Um, Kass, a school that truly centers children... Finish that sentence.

Kass: A school that truly centers children knows where to find beauty in the biggest of the mess. 

Olivia: Mm. Beautiful. All right. Um, Cornelius, what is one small thing that's giving you hope right now that you're seeing in schools? 

Cornelius: At risk of sounding really cliche, it's conversations like this one. Um, it is seeing kids cross the street together and laugh. It is watching, um, you know, kids leave their spelling bee practice in the afternoon. It is the sound of the restroom when kids are hanging out and late to class. It's those little things. It's what Kass just said. It's, like, [00:16:00] where we find beauty, you know? Like, um, there were these boys who were sprinkling water on each other at the school dance. I was on bathroom duty at the school dance, and instead of dancing and listening to music, there was this joyous sprinkling of the water. Um, highly mischievous, incredibly inappropriate, but also beautiful. Um, that's given me a lot of hope right now. 

Olivia: I feel it. I feel it. Uh, I, I will end with a quick note. My younger son is, like, voraciously back into reading. Um, he has... Like, he- all of his teachers have been m- just amazing for many reasons. This year, eighth grade, his English teacher has just rocked his world, and he wants to read everything. He's going through our bookshelves and pulling, "Is this good, Mom? Is this good?" And he is lending our books out to his friends now, and I'm like, "Dude, I have had that copy for a long time. Make sure it gets home." And I dropped him off this morning. I'm like, "What is wrong [00:17:00] with you?" Like, it's so good he's lending books out. If they never return, more power. Let them fly in the world. But just seeing the joy that can happen, um, between reading and the slower moments when everything feels so fast right now, it's, it's... I don't know. It's giving me hope. Um, so we'll pause part one right there, and I cannot wait to continue part two because both of you offer so much light and joy, um, just thinking of where we can go with education and keep persevering. Thank you, both of you. 

Kass: Thank you. 

Cornelius: Thank you. 

Olivia: That is a wrap on part one of my conversation with Cornelius and Dr. Kass Minor. Cornelius said it best today: If you want to go quickly, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. That's exactly what Kass and Cornelius are doing through the Minor Collective, and what I hope we're doing here, together, on Schoolutions. I'll leave you with three of my [00:18:00] big takeaways from this conversation with Kass and Cornelius. First, reclaim your personhood. Cornelius reminds us that labor has become divorced from our bodies and handed to institutions. Teaching isn't compliance. It's a calling that lives in our hearts, and we have to keep taking it back.

Second, community is what's unshakable. Even when everything feels unstable, the bonds between teachers, students, families, and practitioners hold. Going far means going together. Third, curriculum audits center the human. Kass' curricular audit process asks teachers: What am I teaching? Why? And what do my students actually need? When teachers engage with those questions alongside real student data, quantitative and qualitative, the result is intellectual fulfillment and human connection, not compliance. Make sure to check out all the resource links in the show notes to connect [00:19:00] with Cornelius and Kass and have access to their writing. Don't forget to come back for part two. We talk about how to strike a balance between ferocity and grace, what it means to truly know and be known, and we talk about the quiet magic of marveling at the children right in front of us. You do not wanna miss it. We'll see you Friday.