Eddy Arriola - Founder & CEO, Arriola & Co.

We sat down with Eddy Arriola at Büro over gin and tonics for a conversation about building, scaling, and trust. Eddy founded Apollo Bank during the financial crisis and grew it into one of the Southeast's most respected banks before a successful sale in 2022. He's served on boards across banking, fintech, and healthcare, and was appointed by the president and confirmed by the US Senate as chairman of the Inter-American Foundation, serving under three administrations. Today he coaches CEOs through his firm, Arriola & Co.

We dig into his new book, It's All About Relationships, which lays out the six arenas every CEO must master and a practical method for turning relationships into a strategic advantage. His core point: trust, not authority, is what holds leadership together. A great talk about navigating a bank through a crisis, the isolation of the CEO seat, and the relationships that make leadership work.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:13

So your your your dad your your grandfather was a journalist and he had a business in Cuba. What was his business?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Uh yeah, so I hesitate because now I'm thinking maybe maybe maybe he really was a CIA agent. Yeah, it was uh he was in the newspaper uh business. Like, you know, again, back in the day, there were many sort of you know, daily afternoon newspapers, you know, little magazines before uh the widespread of you know TV and you can imagine your grandfather was saying very nice things about Castro. That's right, that's right. Yeah, well, that's it they shut the you know no freedom of the press, yeah, you know, take over private businesses. So that's why they were able to while they they felt they had to get out right away, and how they were able to get out right away, having you know, connections and contacts and that sort of thing. And do you have siblings? I'm number two of five. I have an older brother, Ricky, who lives in Miami, uh, brother Dan, who went uh who is uh a few years younger than me. He lives here in Miami, he's in Chicago, running a business for 14 years, younger uh brother number four, Frankie, who goes back and forth between New York and Miami, and a sister that lives in in New York.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah. Yeah. It's five of us. All right. It's a big family. And where'd you guys grow up, Coral Gables? We grew up in uh what now it is at the time was unincorporated dade. And um, you know, now it's you know, uh I probably technically Kendall, sort of like East Kendall, right on the South Miami-Kendall border. And you guys are you haven't been here long. There's a an old uh uh grocery store, call it uh, you know, uh fruit stand, that's what I think called Norman Brothers, and it was on 87th and just off sunset, and uh used to be all farm country. And when we moved out, there my my dad bought a lot in 1980 out there, and uh it was in the middle of nowhere, and we grew up out there, and then eventually homes were built, and now again, it just goes for many, many, many miles west. Uh, but yeah, that's where we grew up. We grew up in that area. I went to Christopher Columbus High School, proud uh uh alum of Columbus High. All four of the brothers went there. And uh yeah, we love it.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

And but just going back to your grandfather and your father, um, and so your grandfather moved here and he what was his business and what what'd your father do?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, so so my grandfather came here, you know, and again, like many immigrant stories, uh came here with uh, you know, no resources, you know, just the contacts of who who do who else do I know that moved here from Cuba? Um, I think, you know, certainly him, but I think many of the people were like, this is a short-term gig. There's no way that the US is gonna allow a communist dictatorship 90 miles off the coast of Key West. And so, but they did, you know, eventually had to make a life. And uh again, you guys know the story, Miami was a a different city back then. And uh it was a small town, it was a very southern town, it was very segregated. Miama, Miama. And um and you know, and he made a life and worked, you know, various odd jobs. And uh one of the businesses that again, because of his journalism background and running a newspaper, eventually um he found an opportunity to uh buy a small printing company that made uh wedding invitations and business cards, and it was maybe half the size, you know, it was like what you think of like a uh a quick print shop. And uh he that was probably like in the late 60s. And um and then, you know, he built that business uh over over time. Uh my father eventually, you know, you know, right out of, you know, went to five different high schools, you know, struggled to sort of you know blend in in the U.S.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Who did your your dad.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

My dad, yeah. Um, you know, my dad'll, you know, I'm not speaking at out of school, and people that know him will not be surprised. He went to five different high schools, you know, struggled to sort of you know find his way. Um, in terms of just you know, settling in, you know, now nowadays it would have said he uh he had ADHD. Um and you know, no, so quite frankly, just sort of, you know, coming from uh, you know, a tough home life, right? And you get thrown out of a country and your your your parents are trying to make it. And uh after high school, went to college for a little bit, but then just tried to make it in life, right? So he he worked for uh a paper company, selling paper. And uh he would visit all these paper companies, I'm sorry, all these printing companies were his clients and saw who was doing well and you know what worked. And uh one day he's like, I, you know, I want to have my own printing company because I kind of know that business. And one of his mentors was like, uh, instead of starting your own company, why don't you go partner with your dad? And he's like, that'll never work. And he goes, Well, you know, give it a try. My dad went to see his dad and says, Hey, I've got these big, great ideas. You shouldn't be doing, you know, wedding invitations and business cards. Uh I've got bigger, grander ideas. And he goes, All right, let's go. And uh he's, you know, started on a Monday and found out that the business was not doing so well. And uh their biggest client at the time, my grandfather's biggest client was a company that did um like correspondent courses. So kids coming home from uh Vietnam uh through the GI bill, you can get money to pay for college, you know, for college and correspondent courses. And then this particular client, you know, was all a fraud. And my grandfather knew that the guy was gonna go out of business and probably uh have to leave town or go to jail. And so my dad joined the business realizing, oh shit, now you know, now we have no revenue.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And so they went and they they built the business for a little while. And my dad's like, you know, I can't do, I gotta go do my own thing. We you know, we don't, we don't get along. And uh my father bought him out of the business in 1972 and built up a printing, you know, a very successful uh printing company over the course of 25, 30 years.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

And you were born in 1972.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I was yeah, I was born in 1972. That's right. Yeah. And um, so that's what you know, all my life I always knew that my father had this business. It was called uh Avante Press. And uh they were uh a large-scale uh printing company that did uh catalogs back when direct mail was a much bigger business and annual reports and corporate brochures, and that's when he built, you know, the thing would you guys have a warehouse in Hayalea somewhere? Uh yeah, good question. So originally in Hayaleah, and then in um uh and then he built a facility in in Opalaka and he had uh warehouses throughout that area. That's right. You guys know warehouses. So yes, warehouses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So we had you guys need a good broker, we can find you. Yeah, well, not any longer.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I wish he would have met you. Uh uh, I'll tell you some of the people we worked with, but uh but yeah, so I'm familiar with you know with the warehouse business, and we had warehouses in Miami Lakes and Hyalea and Opalaca. We know that area well great areas. Yeah, it is. At that time it wasn't Opalaca wasn't a great those are like ultra high demand areas now. But my father shouldn't have been in the printing, he should have just bought all those warehouses and kept them. But we remind him and he tells us to shut the heck up.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

So you were kind of brought up in that business then, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah. I mean, I I grew up in, you know, I I I said this before, like uh, you know, had friends in high school and college that are like, oh, I, you know, want to be an engineer, a lawyer, a doctor. And I just saw my dad and his dad. And on my mother's side, um, that grandfather uh was an entrepreneur as well. You know, he he uh owned like a you know a small auto supply store uh on the Miami River. And he just, you know, he worked for himself and worked six long days a week. And on Sunday, he would have you know uh Sunday dinner with his family and nap all day because he was just exhausted and get up, you know, before the the the crack of dawn on Monday morning and work his butt off again.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

So this is your mom's dad.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

My mom's dad. Yeah. And so that was the model I always knew. And when I went, I went to Boston College and and and people were like, oh, what are you gonna do when you graduate? Like, oh, you know, start a business. Like, what business? I don't know, you know, because I just didn't think that you had to solve that problem. I think you just need to solve like I'm gonna do this and figure it out and I believe in myself. And but I just didn't know any model. It's not because I was so smart or so, you know, ballsy. It's just that's what I saw people do. And then and I know so a lot of, you know, you guys know this, a lot of immigrants in Miami, that was a story. So I just had a lot of role models around entrepreneurship. You can do things that you don't you don't need to have all the knowledge or all the money or all the contacts, you just figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

And were you working in the business with your dad? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

So I work, so um, you know, my original plan, you know, went to went to college and I, you know, but during high school, I mean No, no, no, I uh no, not not in high school.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Were you a hustler when you were younger as a kid? Were you trying to study?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

No, I I'm uh What were you into? Were you a slacker? I wasn't a slacker. I mean, I'm I'm a very bookish guy. That's why I wrote a book. I'm I'm uh, you know, my hobbies are uh uh uh reading, reading, writing, movies, uh, music, and I played sports. I played baseball and wrestling. I was a competitive wrestler in high school. And so I did, you know, I didn't in the summers I would play baseball and wrestle and uh and read and write and what kind of books were you into in high school? Well, you know, so I I read everything from uh history and biography to sci-fi to you know literary fiction. So I I I still read everything across the board and um and even back then, I mean, I have you know very good friends of mine that you know, so again, so I you know recently wrote a book and they came to the book signing and like we always knew this was gonna happen. We always knew that you would, when you had time and were out you know doing business, that you would spend uh you know the next part of your life reading and writing and and and that sort of thing because that's who you who you always were.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

So what were you good at in uh in school when you were younger? Were any subjects stand out?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, I mean, so I was um I mean I was a good student. I mean, it it was uh you know it wasn't anything you know exceptional. Sorry sorry if you wanted to hear a story that was like, oh, here's a fuck up. No, I mean or what do you lean towards? I was I was a well-rounded student. I mean, so generally speaking, even though I'm you know uh bookish and like to read and write, um, I'm you know, I love people and very personable. So I was uh involved in a million activities. I was, you know, you know, I'm gonna talk about my favorite high school now, Christopher Columbus High School. And uh, you know, I was school president, just very outgoing and involved in a bunch of clubs and over another overachiever on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, sorry about that. Sorry to disappoint. Yeah, we need to we need to vet this a little bit better. Yeah, making us look better.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I didn't work my way out of uh rehab or from the you know the hard streets of Compton. This is yeah, I I was always like a serious, you gotta do what you gotta do. Um were you into math too or no? Uh I wasn't into math. You were yeah, but I you know, I was in you know honors classes and did well, but I wasn't like a math guy. I wasn't, you know, I so I went to college and uh was a history major. So if you said what was I into, I was into history. And I thought before I said I'm gonna go the entrepreneurship route, I you know, I would have thought that I was gonna be a history teacher and you know, to go that route because those are the you know, the people I looked up to, and I, you know, still look up to, I'm still very good friends, were my high school teachers. Uh my, I'm sorry, my high school history teachers. Yeah. And uh yeah, and I'd say that the three or four high school history teachers that that you know that taught me in high school, I'm still friends with them. I'm literally still friends with. That's awesome. Yeah. So that was sort of the route um that I thought I'd follow. And then um, you know, realized one day that, you know, I wanted to have an impact on people. I wanted to, and that's what I loved about, you know, teaching that you work one-on-one with people. And um I did work for my dad in the summer while I was in college. And uh I just did it because I needed something to do and and he needed so you were you were in BC? I was at Boston College, yeah. So you were you got there in 90?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Got there in 90, so a little after Doug Flew to b Big East. I went to Syracuse. Oh, did you big East enemies?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Back in the back in the good old days. That's what but that's when the big east matter, basketball. Even football was decent back then. Um so yeah, so I mean, so growing up, I loved Big East college basketball. I mean, the football wasn't, I think big east uh football came in actually the year I went into college. Uh, but big east basketball was great and big East sports. And uh yeah, I loved Boston, loved BC.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yeah, I mean that what made you go way out there because I feel like most people from Miami stay in Miami, like especially the the the the Cuban households, moms don't want to see their kids go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Especially back then for a bunch of reasons because it wasn't a tradition, because people didn't have money because of you know, sort of like I gotta keep my um you know my baby close to to home. Totally. Um, but I had an older brother went away to college. He went to Boston College. Yeah, and and especially my mother's wanted, you know, just felt like, oh, you guys should go away, get the hell out of here. You know, my dad didn't, you know, carry the way.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Um had you traveled much when you were in high school?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, for so yeah, especially, you know, we'd go on you know family vacations, but I traveled a lot. Like I said, I was you know, played uh competitive sports in baseball and wrestling. So a lot of my summers were spent in a bus or a van or or an RV with teams traveling to, you know, but but th throughout the state mostly or throughout the country. I mean, you know, unfortunately we're on competitive teams and we'd make it you know different parts.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

So we were so you're a good wrestler too.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah, yeah. It's been to you know, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and you know, those are the corn fed boys.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Those people are good. Yeah, those are your people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, that's where all they do is wrestle. All they do is stay indoors. Have you ever brought a business dispute to a wrestling match? Have you had ever wrestled it out? Like no.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

So what one of the cool one of the cool things, even in high school. That's how we're gonna settle it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

One of the cool things um about being a wrestler is people just make a bunch of assumptions of like, oh, he's not that big, but I don't want to get fucked up by this guy. Yeah, so I, you know, I've avoided fighting. Well, once people hear that, they're like, oh, he, you know, I might get in trouble here. I might I I maybe I can take him, but he's probably gonna take me down. I may smack my head on you know on the edge of the death. So uh so I've never had to go that route. And I think whenever anyone hears that you're a wrestler, like, I don't I don't want to mess with this. Do why go that route? Same as you know, I probably do.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Wrestlers are a different breed, man. I I I read somewhere that like the highest like for Navy SEALs, whatever it is, right? Like it's wrestlers and rowers that make it to the Navy SEALs.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Interesting. Yeah, isn't that interesting? Because they have the highest like pain tolerance. I guess so. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

It's it's it's just an individual sport, it's an individual sport. A lot of uh pain tolerance too.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And you're not getting any glory. You know, the girls aren't going to to the wrestling matches or or or or career matches, you're doing it just because you're you're gritty and you're gonna suffer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and talent doesn't, you know, it's great if you're athletic, if you're an athletic wrestler, but it kind of doesn't matter. It's more about you know, grit and hard work and being technical. And it and it's well, I think all sports are super mental, but especially wrestling. Yeah, you're you're wrestling against yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Interesting. So when you were working with your dad, what were you doing for him in your college summer?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yeah. So at the time, at the time, again, this is going back, so it was 1992. I was like, as I mentioned, I was uh I liked you know, history and government and politics. And uh at the time, I was uh I was working on the Bill Clinton campaign. He was running for well for for for president and to go back to Hold on a Cuban working for the Democratic.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, big deal. But what especially back then?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Especially back then.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

You see me get lynched when you admit every year when you walk out here.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

The Democratic Party has no sway anymore, so they just kind of ignore us. Um, but especially back then, it was like, oh, let's I I was certainly a minority. Uh I wouldn't even say minority. I mean, I was a unicorn. It was and I was up in Boston. It's like, hey, I want to get involved, a presidential race. I read about this stuff. This is really cool. But uh at that time, uh the New Hampshire, you know, things are really different now, but back then um the early primaries really mattered. And so the two big primaries, you know, even now, but back then it mattered more were New Hampshire and Iowa. Iowa at that time, the guy, one of the Democrats that was running was a guy named Tom Harkin, who was a U.S. senator from Iowa. So everybody knew, like, all right, Iowa doesn't matter, he's gonna win that. So New Hampshire really mattered, and it was a free-for-all. And that's you know, Bill Clinton won. And I'm just I didn't really care. Uh, but I'm like, oh, I want to get involved in this election. How do I volunteer and get involved? And BC or Boston is close to New Hampshire. And I looked at all the candidates, I'm like, oh, this guy seems interesting, and got involved. And, you know, I was a very, very, very minor character, sort of a fly on the wall, but got to see the entire, you know, craziness unfold of all the scandals. What, you know, again, back then it was that, you know, he was a draft dodger and the, you know, you know, sex scandals and the affair, the alleged affairs. And um, it was very cool to see all that. And then he actually didn't win New Hampshire, but he was they called him the comeback kid. He was supposed to be able to come back. So what year was that? So that was nine, um, that was uh beginning of '92. So it's say January of 1992. And I was volunteered and walked in snow and knocked on people's doors and just loved that whole process. And um so by and I thought that's what I was gonna do. I was gonna be involved in government or teach history. And um, summer came, and at that time Clinton had already locked up the nomination. And I thought I would come back home and work on the Clinton campaign. Um, but he'd already locked up the nomination, so they weren't campaigning in Florida. So I'm like, oh, what the heck am I gonna do? And it was literally my dad, like, oh, I'm some project, I have to do a presentation. And it was literally a Monday, and he goes, uh, I have to do a presentation on Friday. Like, I need someone to do this for me. Why don't you come in? If you're not doing anything, why don't you come in and do it? So went in on a Monday and he's like, This is what you need to do. Go talk to these 25 people and interview them. And and at the time it was um like an employee employee engagement uh initiative, which back you know, nowadays, you know, work life balance, all that bullshit is uh is commonplace. Back then it wasn't. It was it it was uh you know, it was a novel idea.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

It was very woke of your father. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

And uh so I spent you know Monday through Thursday interviewing, talking to people, putting you know stuff together, working on a computer and putting together this report and helping my dad put together this presentation. And I loved those four days of interacting with people. And, you know, the way, you know, the one way I saw my dad an entrepreneur was, you know, capitalism, money, you know, go hustle, meet with clients, but to see his employees um just be so excited to meet with me, not because of who I am, but they were like, oh, if this kid comes to work here, then the next generation will take over this business and I can work here for another, you know, 20 years. And they love the idea of a family business. And I started to see the impact that an entrepreneur and a business owner can have on real people's lives. So I saw politicians and, you know, wasn't so impressed with what they were doing and how they squandered money, but I saw, you know, a real life entrepreneur that I knew impacting people and how they were, you know, if you do this, my life is so if you improve our healthcare, you know, plan, you know, my kid who has disabilities can have a better life. Um so I I just thought that was really cool. So that Friday came, my dad did a presentation and he's like, wow, that was great, you know, great job. And um, I'm like, awesome. So who's gonna do this next week? I don't know, why don't you do it? And I'm like, oh shit, I don't have any other plans. So I stayed there all summer and sort of fell in love with business and sort of the machine of business. And I went back to college.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

And um And at this point, who was who are his customers in the business?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, so he had a very interesting. So uh he had you know, predominantly sort of you know, three market segments he services. One was uh uh retail department stores. Um again, that back in the day that was a bigger deal. So if you were um, you know, if you were in you know Philadelphia, you know, Wanamakers, and if you're in DC, I'm forgetting all the names now.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Um but these are retail brochures that you're yeah, retail catalog.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

So, you know, as you know, in every in every town, there's a big, you know, we you know, the Macy's, the Berdines, uh, you know, JCPenney's Bloomingdale's Leaman Marcus, all those sorts of things. And so you would get a catalog in the mail and it would drive traffic to the store, you would call an 800 number. Yeah, and that was it. So that was one segment. The other was being based in my in Miami. Uh, the travel and tourism industry, so the brochures for cruise lines at Disney World and that sort of sort of thing. And the third market segment was uh annual reports. So again, back in the day, you know, there was no internet, and um, so big companies would have to produce these annual reports that would go out to investors and you know, shareholders, and it'd be these big fancy things where the CEO would be sort of the hero of those things. And so it would they're big important documents. And so yeah, that was his market. So he called on interesting, you know, Fortune 500 companies. And um, you know, next summer I came back, you know, studied with him. Um, worked with him, worked for him, uh, went back to college and started taking more business courses and you know, accounting and finance and what was your favorite business course? Accounting. I mean, yeah, yeah, to this day, um yeah, sort of, you know, the the language of business and you know, it sort of all made sense. And um, yeah, I I that that was definitely and I had a great accounting teacher. And then I'd take other, you know, since I was I had already been working and I take like an operational management course. I'm like, this guy doesn't know shit. Like, you know, this guy's, you know, I'm actually now that I say that out loud, the operational management professor was some guy that had moved from Russia and like had never really worked except for universe. Like, what the hell is this guy now? Yeah. And uh, and that was you know, the good old days of Russia. You know, so it wasn't even Russia, it was Soviet, the Soviet Union. And um, so yeah, so that was and I came back and I'm like, all right, you know, I'm gonna work for him, work for him, and uh, but eventually want to start my own company. How long did you work for your dad? So for about two years. Okay. And then I started um This is when Inktel came about. No, well, there's a there's a step in between. Um so this well, so this is like 1995, and um there's this thing called the internet that people some people started to talk about. I'm like, hey, this is this is gonna be it.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

This is when did you get your your first email address? Do you remember? Were you in college? When did you get your first email address?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

I wasn't in college. It it was um right when I came back from college. So I graduated in May of 1994. My wife, now my girlfriend at the time, we went to BC together. She moved to Philadelphia to work, and um, and her company gave her an email. And I'm like, oh, I gotta get an email, and I got AOL. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

You didn't get one at the at the university. No, the internet wasn't at I got my first email address, I think, was at Syracuse, and it was either 95 or 96. Yeah. So I didn't even know what to do with this thing. In 94, no, it was 95. No one used it.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah, it it was 90. When I graduated, there was no internet. There were there were actually there, of course there was an internet, but no one was talking about it. No. And by the end of that summer, some companies were starting to incorporate, including the company that my wife went to go work for, they were. You know, ahead of the curve. And we both got AOL accounts. So that way we can communicate with each other and start to, you know, get, you know, not surf the web, you know, go online, go on AOL. And then fast forward about a year, um, you know, been, you know, working for my father and, you know, heard about this thing called the internet. And uh I'm like, you know, I I've got to get involved. I want to do this thing. Um, where is it going? And sort of tracked it, and then started a company in 1996 called US Web, whose purpose was to develop websites. And so we'd, you know, we'd come to, you know, Philippe Ben, you know, there's this thing called the internet. You know, people are gonna find out about you, buy your services online. And this is the way you can access information and promote your company and do all these crazy things. I do an hour presentation, and then you two would come back to me like, what are you talking about? Like, is that the same? I heard about this thing, AOL. I get like these free discs when I buy a magazine. Is that the same thing? And and it was super, super, super frustrating. And even then started to build a business and had clients. Um, but came to a point, you know, this sort of hit a wall. And I was just very young and starting, you know, had a little team of graphic designers and and a web developer. And uh it was just really early in the market. And I think it was frustrating if people didn't get it. Exactly. I mean, I I every conversation I go into like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 23:19

How's this going? Who's gonna I love have you ever seen those clip montages of like CNN or Good Morning America, all these national news outlets talking about the internet and how bullshit it is and no one no one cares? Yeah, uh yeah, that's it's gonna be a fad.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I wish I had you know stuck with mentioned some other things, but it was it was so frustrating. I'm sure. Um this was 94, 95, so uh 95, 96. Yeah. So the officially so started working on it in '95, officially created a company in 1996. And it was just uh, well, uh, you know, super frustrating. And and so we'd sign up a little bit. You were doing this here in Miami. Doing it here in Miami, yeah. And um, you know, and and it was what I we were really learning on the fly. So we didn't sell anything, yeah. So we had we had clients. So like I had a bunch of clients and uh so you built websites for web development. So I mean, actually, coincidentally, when I first started to learn about banks, right? Some of my first clients um were banks. Um then also these direct mail re retail catalogs that I so one of our first clients was are you familiar with like Bigelow T, like they're like a hundred something year old tea company. Yeah, yeah, like the major tea company. Yeah, they had a catalog and they were one of our first catalogs. They put like, I mean, I remember it's like three, you know, like we can't put all of our teas, but we're gonna do three different gift sets. And they had different gift sets, and they come to the website. And so that was one of specifically, they're like, hey, we can do this, but like we have a whole distribution center. We don't do direct to consumer. We wish we could send this. Like, if someone places the order, you can ship them the package. And we're like, oh, we can do that. My dad had a printing company at his you know, big warehouse in in Opalaka. We're like, Oh, we can keep a limited inventory. We get an order, we put it in a box and ship it. We got people that do that, and sort of as a test case. And so that was our not our first client, but first sort of client where we were doing these sort of end-to-end services, and we would go pitch other people and they'd be like, Oh, can you do all that for us too? You know, take customer service requests and do the online stuff and direct-to-consumer fulfillment. And we started doing direct-to-consumer fulfillment and call center and customer service work because we just wanted to sell more websites. And then, you know, fast forward, that back end of the business started to take off.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Which end?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Oh, sorry, yeah, uh, the customer service and the direct-to-consumer fulfillment. Because people are like, I don't, this internet thing isn't gonna really work. Yeah, but I do have these other things that I need to send out, whether it be uh, you know, products or or I want to sell, I want to send out a catalog and I want people to call an 800 number and order my product. I'm like, all right, we can build out a call center. And again, my dad had this printing company, and it was, you know, a couple hundred thousand square feet of of a facility. So oh, we can carve it.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

That's pretty cool. A couple hundred thousand square feet, huh?

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Oh, now you get excited.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah, that's a big warehouse.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Well, he it was a printing company. Warehouse is like there you go.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yeah, he actually had yeah, and uh his facility, it still exists, um, not as a printing company, but it was a uh you know, 250,000 square foot facility on the corner of uh uh Lejeune.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

My dad's not gonna listen to this because I'm on it.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

But if he hears it, he's gonna get really pissed when he hears that. Um but yeah, he has uh so yeah, so actually, what's the company there now? It's a friend of mine owns it. Now didn't buy it from my dad, but he owns um I don't know why I'm drawing a blank on the name of the company. Uh uh oh, Atlantic Hosiery is is there on the on the corner. Does that sound familiar? No, so it's on 135th and and uh in Lejeune. Anyways, so 250,000 square feet and plus he had other, you know, another 100,000 square. I know you're gonna get excited on right by Miami Dade North, where again he he would store paper and stuff. So we just started doing direct-to-consumer fulfillment and uh and then a call center. And a call center. And that wasn't meant to be the business, but that started to take off. And you know, sort of, you know, my my dad, you know, using a lot of his um, you know, resources, and we said, Oh, we need to incorporate this business, you know, separately. So in 1997, this company, Inktel, was incorporated, and uh that was you know, part, you know, part printing company and part internet uh internet web development, but it was really a call center fulfillment company. And that company still exists and it's run and operated by uh by my two brothers. Um but that's skipping ahead. I know you guys like to follow up.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

No, no, no. I think I think we're right on course here. Um but so at that that's that's Inktel that gets that you guys incorporate.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

That gets that gets incorporated, and I'll I'll try to speed up the the timeline here. So my dad had a very successful uh printing company, sells it in 2001 for a bunch of reasons, you know, timing was right, that sort of thing. I didn't I didn't want to be in that business. My other two brothers weren't in that business. So he's like, well, it's not gonna really be a family business. So time was right. Uh my uh my father sells his company. My brother Dan had just joined the business after he graduated. My brother Rick was doing a bunch of things. He was a corporate lawyer, Harvard MBA, uh, was running some other um businesses, including entrepreneurial businesses. And we got together and said, Hey, why don't we, you know, be partners and build this business and um and really go forward at the time we wanted to, you know, work together and build a business.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And so Inktel is is then just doing fulfillment and customer service.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Uh yeah, uh customer service call center, you know, what you would think is traditional call center. Yeah. And uh and again, I'm gonna get you guys excited. So it was a two, and then we had a 250,000 square foot facility for uh uh for fulfillment and distribution in um uh right by the Chicago airport outside of O'Hare. And that's where my brother Dan moved there. I'm gonna I'm gonna forget the year, but um, you know, like traditional family business. Oh, we got this big business in Chicago. Who's moving?

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Little brother, little brother who didn't have I I was married and had kids, and my brother was my older brother was you know the the CEO and he's like, I gotta stay at corporate headquarters. So the so brother number three is like, all right, I don't have a good excuse. I'm going. And he literally went from, you know, that might have been on a Thursday. He booked a flight on Friday and never came back for 14 years. Wow. How do you like Chicago? He liked it. He loved it. He loved it. That's a cool, that's a big change. Yeah, I I I won't speak for him, but uh he loved it, loved the people, built a hell of a life. But I think as he got older, uh, and we sold that business. And we sold that the well, he I say we, I mean he really sold it. Um when he sold that business and he had a life in Chicago and would wasn't stuck having to go to the office every day. He would come to visit, you know, us down here. And he's just like, oh shit, I forgot about this weather. And you know, I want to build a life down here. And he moved back in uh I'm gonna get the I I want to say like right before COVID. And then so and then he was kind of you know stuck here, but his but he's built the life. And but I think he was in Chicago for like 14 years.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

So so what did Inktel grow into? I mean, yeah, so it still exists.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

I mean, it it's they have thousands of call center operations, uh, operator, you know, uh customer service agents across the country. I'm sorry, across the world. I mean so they have operations in Africa and Colombia and throughout the US, and now it's become more of a well, it's not more, uh it's a completely remote workforce. And uh, we went from having call centers in you know throughout the state of Florida and throughout the US, and they were able to, you know, when COVID came, you know, they were able to pivot and really, you know, invest in technology and figure it out right away and become a remote workforce call center. And they've really grown it and taken off and because it's great.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

You cut all your costs, you don't have to again. No effect, they were able to get rid of all the all the warehouses, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, I mean, they're you know, their number one expenses uh people. And then the second was real estate. So they were able to get rid of that.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

And and that was an interesting time to start a business like that because that was when the whole globalization was like the big word from like I feel like from the mid-90s to the mid-2000s, like 2007.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yeah, people outsourcing, yeah. And it was uh, you know, super competitive, you know, tough business. You, you know, people are outsourcing because uh having that many people, having to manage that many people, you know, is not fun or not easy. And so we have a lot of people issues. And that's kind of you know, um, you know, leading sort of into what I did next was um, you know, I just developed the expertise of uh culture, people, motivation, hiring, and and sort of the whole people part of the business because that's what Inktel was. And you know, and I would say that became you know my my area of expertise.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

So you were the founder of that company.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

So uh uh my father and my father and I, okay, and my brothers joined shortly, but you know, they really transformed the business. So how how long were you kind of you you were kind of so I was there from 1997 until um 2008. Okay. 2008.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

And so you you are a CEO of the company who was running the company?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

We were three partners, yeah. Yeah. And uh and I left in 2008, and you know, they you know, you know, I'm I'm a minority partner now. They, you know, they have the between the two of them, you know, uh majority of the business and own it and operate it. And, you know, I don't have an office, I don't show up. You know, they they your your brothers still run the business.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

They still run it.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

They've built a hell of a business. And I, you know, they take me out to lunch and they write me, you know, with their football tickets, and that's where they still take me.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Um are you on the board? We don't have a board. That's what I was saying. So technically, so technically they don't there's there's no board. It's a family business. That's right. It's like, let's go to a football game. If I have a question, maybe they'll answer it. And maybe they won't, and I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

You know, that was you know, that's our relationship. Uh, but but again, they've built a uh a hell of a business, it's a super tough business, like I said, operations across the world. Um, you know, a lot of people issues, a lot of technology issues now with, you know, they've figured out how to, you know, implement AI effectively, but that's right on you know, sort of the the radar of um you know of AI. And people say, oh, we're gonna no longer need call centers and humans and that sort of thing. I wouldn't, you know, the robots take over, maybe that's where they start.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

So okay. But so you're you you you left in 2008. 2008. So but but before that, you get involved and you become a board member of Total Bank.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah. So okay, so so let's go back a little. So um again, it's sort of you know, love the machine of business. And in uh, let's call it 2002, and I did sort of like, hey, I I I really like being involved in the community. My family's always been involved in the community. Um, I like the machine of business. I want to learn about other businesses. I, you know, really had you know limited business experience in one that I was young, and then two, that it was only this entrepreneurial company. And you know, I woke up one day and was like, how you know, how do I get more involved in a local business? How do I learn um about a business that's totally different than what I'm doing at Inktel? And had an opportunity to become a board member of Total Bank at the time of Total Bank. Um sort of public knowledge, Total Bank was a tiny little bank owned by um a guy by the name of Mike Feldman. Uh and Mike Feldman, his wife, his name is Adrian Arsht, and he was a much older gentleman and lived in DC. He's, you know, his story is super interesting, but he was married to uh maybe his third wife, which is Adrian Arsht, and she decided to move down to Miami. Uh Mike had owned several banks across the country, and he had this actually two little banks here in Miami. And she moved down and she's like, um, I'm gonna manage these banks and get involved. And when she came down, you know, no one knew her. And she had a hard time putting together her own board of directors. At the time, uh, the bank was under uh, they were undercapitalized, they had some regulatory issues because quite frankly, they had some some board, some of the board members she inherited had some issues. So she's like, Look, I need to get people on my board. They're gonna pay attention, get involved. I need to know people in the community. And she reached out to you know, community pillars at the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

And you know, she went up against and somehow your urine made the list.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

No, no, no. My my I was on uh page seven of the list.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Uh on page one through six were a bunch of uh you know major names. And uh they were like, you know, probably she probably you know uh experienced uh you know gender discrimination and who's this woman, and well, I don't want to, you know, be on the board of this. And and um and she was giving people an opportunity to invest, but the amount of money that you know that they were talking about either wasn't of interest to people, and that's what so she I don't know how many people she asked to be on her board, um, but I wasn't the first or probably the 32nd uh choice. And when it finally did get to me, she's like, Hey, I'm you know, I I've changed my mind. I want young, aggressive people that are connected to the community and be the next part of the, you know, the next generation. Would you be interested in joining the board? You got to learn the business and get involved and come to the committee meeting, then you know, give you an opportunity to invest in the business. And I didn't know what I didn't know. And I'm like, that sounds great. I want to be involved in a local business and see what's going on. I was interested in real estate. And and banking gives you uh a great view into real estate, who's, you know, you know, I saw, you know, some of the of the the you know, well, all of the bigger, the all the big, big names that you know in town, you know, I was you know looking at their you know, personal financials 20-something years, uh 20 something years ago, and really saying, oh, that's how someone makes money, or that's how this particular guy um, you know, I remember at the time, and you know, I I'll speak out of school because uh this this gentleman has passed passed away was, you know, uh T Bor Hollow was, you know, really important guy in real estate. He was a client of Total Bank, which is this little bank, and he was a client and we saw his balance sheet. I'd never seen a balance sheet. There's you know, he legitimately had $200 million in cash in, you know, let's call it 2005. Uh and I'm like, why would someone have $200 million in cash? He was just so sharp. He was like, he saw it coming. He's like, I'm gonna hoard all this cash, and when the shit hits the fan, I'm gonna start buying stuff. And um, and started to see like what behind the scenes of what people were doing. I thought that was super interesting. But that's how I got involved in banking and just fell in love with the business. Timor had 200 million dollars with total bank. Oh, not with total bank, so with with very so so total bank couldn't handle that. But he had, I don't remember the number, let's say $14 million, which is a lot for any bank, but especially Total Bank. So he was a very and he was buying, you know, little properties and just sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting. And he had an impression, and what was Total Bank doing?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Was he were they financing deals for him?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

So at the time, you know, so so Total Bank went while I was there, not because I mean while I was there, they went from like a $400 million bank that was undercapitalized and under-regulatory, uh uh uh under uh a consent order to uh you know, having a stellar record with regulators, making a ton of money, uh, being nearly $2 billion a bank, uh $2 billion in assets and selling for at that time, you know, a record I think was $340 million. I was a minority, very, very minority shareholder, and but did very well and liked it and was a great experience. But you know, Adrian walked away with uh really big check. That's why the performing arts centers named the Adrian R Center.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

And who who bought them?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

So uh uh uh Banco Popular de España. So the Spanish bank came in. That was right before uh so if you ever wanted to go back and track what was the the absolute market peak in banking and and real estate, what what was the high point? It was the day that the money was wired to Adrian Ars. And I think it was like you know, August 15th of 2007 or something, you know, right after that things started going bad, well, across the world and and that sort of thing. And uh and I just had such a positive experience and said, hey, like, you know, I think I can do that. You know, I think I can start a bank. Yeah, and I didn't know I didn't know what I didn't know. And I had wanted to start another business and sort of entrepreneurial. My brother's, you know, again, my brother Rick had, you know, recently joined the business. My brother Dan, you know, when I mentioned when he first started, he was right out of college, and now he was had a lot more experience and was running uh, you know, the you know, larger business in Chicago. And um we got along very, very well and we're very close. But the analogy, you know, even you know, is uh you can only have one starting quarterback, right? And so, you know, Joe Montana and Steve Young couldn't play in the same team. And so I go, I want you know, I want to go do, you know, something different on my own. And I didn't know if it was going to be uh a fish taco stand or or what, but I you know, I started to think about what I wanted to do. And um, and I always had in the back of my mind of uh starting a bank. And I had shared that idea with some very close friends uh who I'm still very close to. And so when I went to to some of them and said, Hey, I'm thinking about starting a business. Here's idea one, here's idea two, and here's idea three, and they're like, I thought you said you were gonna start a bank. I go, Oh, I'm gonna do that when I'm in my 60s. And I go, Why don't you do it now? Because they were as dumb as me. And you're how old at this point? 35. Yeah. Was I? Yeah, so 35. Yeah. And um, and I didn't know what I didn't know, I'd never raised capital, really hadn't worked in a bank that's been on the board, and saw some really well-run banks in Miami uh be sold and sort of create the service void. And so, like, there's a bank called Gibraltar Bank that was super highly regarded and they had sold and you know had a good multiple, but but customers started complaining, like, Oh, I wish Gibraltar, you know, Gibraltar was still around. And same with Total Bank, the customer just said, Oh, I wish there was a bank like Total Bank and City National Bank at that time, the original owner was the general by the name.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

But you have to get a charter to become a bank. So did you Yeah, but I thought it would be easy. Yeah. So what's that process like? So well it's sometimes it's just easier to go buy a bank that has a charter. Well, so that's what we do.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Well, so uh so this was you know, beginning of 2008, you know. And by the way, it's like the financial crisis. Well, well, we're we're we're you're you're getting ahead of the story. So things started to go a little bit sideways. You start to say, oh, there's softening in the real estate market. Uh you know, it's clearly a peak in bank sales, uh, you know, bank uh bank valuations. Uh let's go do something. Uh, you know, what's going on? But uh, you know, again, traditionally, uh recessions last six, seven, eight, nine months. And I'm like, oh, there'll be this little recession by the time we open up this bank. Um, we'll be out of it and then we'll be ready to, you know, to rock and roll. So I didn't know, you know, no one thought that was coming. So I spent the first part of 2008. I told my brothers, hey, I'm thinking about starting a business. I think I like this banking idea. I don't know how to go about doing that. I'm gonna spend, you know, the first part of 2008 learning how to start a bank. And I went around the country and talked to 40 different people and said, here's what I'm thinking about doing. What are your thoughts? Who else should I talk to? And the one thing I found is that entrepreneurs, especially people that have had success and built a business, is well, they're willing to talk all day about their story, like I'm doing right now. And people just like, if I can put this out there and people learn from it, great. You you get all this information for free and I'll keep talking until you tell me to shut up. And I went and talked to people, and they were so open that this is what you need to do and this is how you do it. And you start, you can start a bank this way or that way or this other way, and put together a game plan. And I'm like, you know, I'm gonna do it. And the original idea was to uh get a bank charter and start a new bank, and we and we went down that road. And I say, we, we was me at the time. It was it was only me. But I'm like, all right, what do I need to do? Oh, I need to identify a board of directors that's also gonna invest because I didn't wanna, I I didn't have the ability to write like one really big check, right? And uh I go, oh, but I know people and I have relationships and I think.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Well, what does it cost to get a charter?

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Well, uh the cost to get a charger, a charter in at that time was, you know, you probably had to have invest about a million dollars in legal fees and time and you know, business plan and approvals and all that sort of stuff. And you needed to raise uh a minimum of $20 million capital. And uh so yeah, so we you know went through that process and you have to have, you know, again, it's a regulated business, you know, not anyone can go into it. So there's, you know, who's involved and what's your your So who's involved? So at the time it was me. Right. And so I'm like, all right, you know, we'll have to and uh so the first thing I needed to do was have a core group of investors. And quite frankly, my friends either, you know, didn't have the ability to write a check or weren't gonna write like really, really big checks. And um, but my friends were super connected people. And they're like, all right, I'll put you know a certain amount of money and we'll help you raise money from our friends and family. And the whole thing was, you know, to the day we sold Apollo Bank was um, you know, buy entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs. We're gonna create a a bank focused uh uh on serving uh you know entrepreneurs in the South Florida market, specifically the Miami market. So real estate entrepreneurs, you know, uh, you know, entrepreneurial doctors, entrepreneurial lawyers, uh, small businesses. And that was our game plan. So we I recruited uh a handful of people that were like, yeah, I'm in. And that quite frankly didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

And so basically giving loans to these entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah. So the yes. Uh the the core of of a bank is uh is actually uh getting deposits. So you, you know, that the that's really the secret sauce, right? That's what that's what differentiates is that can you have low cost FDIC insured deposits that allow us to lend out money inexpensively, which means you take on um you know less risk and that sort of thing. And you have this sort of this moat of the sort of protection. protection of a charter and the FTIC insurance that the regulators grant you if you run the business a certain way. Yeah. So it was get a handful of investors, a handful of board members that'll help me, you know, sense like lend me their reputation and lend me their relationship. Which are the deposits. No, which was, well, because before I even open, I need, I need to open, I need to raise capital. And I need to have credibility with right regulators. So I put together a handful of of my friends, you know, including uh uh you know my good friend Matt Adler who's a super successful real estate developer. But at the time, well so I was 35. He was probably 31. Um another guy named Wicho Hernandez who was in uh insurance he's super successful now but back then he was you know a much smaller company um the the Sheck family and and a and a bunch of other people a guy named Robbie Elias who's a very successful real estate attorney and a bunch of other guys are like yeah we're in you know again we can't write the checks individually but we're going to go out and talk to everyone that we know about this and lend our credibility. And the other key component was I talked to people and they're like you got a great game plan. Your service offerings is very you know uh is very specific. You know, I had again, you know, uh the way I had one before was through you know sales and marketing and corporate culture and strategy. What I didn't have was technical skills of banking and they're like you know you need a a guy with gray hair that can walk into the regulators and has instant credibility that knows how you know really to run a bank, a technical guy. And you know talked to many people and as I started to talk to people they've like you need to meet Richard Daly you need to meet Richard Daly you need to meet Richard there's a guy named Richard Daly who is still is uh 32 33 years older than me and he had been an entrepreneur and started businesses and started banks and had turned a couple banks around and at the time was retired. Not related to Meg Daly no no no no no no no uh no and um and he was uh available and he was around here in Miami and he was like straight out of central casting in that he was Richard Daly looked like Robert Redford older guy you know blondish gray hair um spoke per spoke better Spanish than me had run banks and or had spent time in Germany in banking and spent time in Latin America and he was great and I was lucky enough to that he was like I love the idea let let's do this together I want to work with someone younger and that's what he wanted in his life was to you know partner with a younger entrepreneurial guy and he joined and that gave uh that gave me so much credibility with people to say all right this guy you know now they have a player on the team that really knows sort of the the technical side and regulators you know I'd walk into um you know regulatory meeting and you know people knew him you know by first name and were so and would you know just know all the things he had accomplished. And that was our team it was these handful of board members who helped gather other investors that were going to write you know checks in an initial investment. You know, we had our smallest investor was $50,000 you know up to you know uh at that time two million dollars uh but it was a lot of checks in the $50, $100, $150,000 that eventually added up to you know $22 million uh to raise capital. And we went through the whole process and we got to well and then so while I'm doing this. It what takes you about a year to get the charter. Yeah but but but during that year the uh the economy only got worse. So banks are being shut down every Friday they were trying to shut down a bank and I'm trying to start a bank. And we finally we were uh approved by the state of Florida to open a new bank and we met with the FDIC and they're like you know before we go through this process of approving you I want you to know we have a stack of files uh on our desk of banks that we're about to close down and we have your one little bank that wants to open it it you'd make our life a lot easier if you took some of these stacks away. Um you have the capital, you have the management you have the strategy. Why don't you focus your energy on acquiring a little bank and um and turning it around and we'll expedite that process. And it was you know really because of the credibility of of Richard Daly that they were you know that frank with him frank with us. And uh yeah and so we focused on trying to find a bank that met our criteria and we looked at probably 20 different banks in the state of Florida that weren't too far gone. And we found this one little bank in here in Miami called Union Credit Bank and it was um on 1150 South Miami Avenue. And at that time from 1150 South Miami Avenue if you know the location I could you know I could see the Miami River. I could see uh Biscayne Bay and this is only in fall of 2009 and um yeah and and so we negotiated with the family the family that owned the bank and really really hadn't built it to the point where they had troubles but they hadn't built it where it was profitable even during the good times. And we you know bought control of the company that family liked what we were doing they stayed as minority shareholders in the business and uh and and and an Apollo bank officially opened uh March 15 2010 but it was by buying this little bank and then building it up and adding our team our strategy our man uh our management and bringing in our customers did you benefit at all from the the financial crisis from assets being cheap other than buying this bank I mean how else does market dynamics play in the big yeah so so so the real uh I benefited in learning that um the best things in life you just have to stick with it that that you have to always accept that bad you know even when good you know bad shit's gonna happen in life um but you get through it and so that was and I was trying to start a bank and being like you know quite frankly like I had left my you know my brothers you know we had a business and I left that business and I still had you know a mortgage and two kids in private school and my wife was super supportive and her whole thing was if you blow all the money that's great but we're not leaving this house and our kids are in private school or end because we love this particular school. By where where did you meet your wife? BC we both went to Boston College. She's from the Boston area.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Um and your sons were where Columbus too?

SPEAKER_00 49:58

No uh so I have a son and a daughter my son uh went to ransom Everglades and then and then and so did my daughter and he lives in LA now and she lives in New York.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah. So yeah so we we opened up this bank and with the focus of by entrepreneurs for entrepreneurs we're gonna build relationships we're gonna focus on service we're gonna build a great corporate culture um you were this gonna be the the desired place for people to work um you know the people who we're gonna start building our client base by working through our investors and and man you know having them open accounts and them referring business and it really became a a referral business um and people knew it was a a place for for entrepreneurs to to bank and and so what kind of services were you offering the good old fashioned uh what I always said it was they people say what services uh you know we serve ice cream uh chocolate vanilla and strawberry but it's the best chocolate we've ever had the best vanilla the best strawberry so the services are the very traditional uh community bank uh services in that on the lending side it was um you know uh commercial real estate uh you know owner occupied commercial real estate or warehouse you know at the you know multifamily when we first started multifamily wasn't that you know where it was all crashing so it was you're really financing things uh you know that were distressed so to go back to Ben's question we benefited in that we were actively lending which we didn't know at the time at the bottom of the market and while other banks had closed so we were saying we're open for business when most people were sitting on their hands. So that was you know certainly and then and then of course Miami just exploding in 2000 you know 2010 and beyond. And were you guys buying distressed debt or any of that stuff or lending on distressed debt or what we so you know we we really um we didn't really you know think about that we were lending on distressed debt we were really sponsor focused like if this guy's a really good you know talented person you know that or individuals or group that knew what they were doing and had a game plan and we're putting good equity into the business um it just so happened they're buying something at that time that was uh at a good price but that they had a game plan. So you know we never use the word you know you know distressed or that sort of thing. And and banks have um for lack of a better term I'll call it restrictions, but you know we we're a regulated business. So you have to be careful that um you know because you you're gonna be uh you know uh examined by regulators uh the types of assets the types of problems that you're taking on that they're not gonna be permanent problems there's really a game plan to get at so we were very much you know sponsor focused and are they you know what are they buying and do they have a game plan and whether you know they're in you know little Haiti or homestead or you know every at that time especially the first couple of years everything was distressed I mean there wasn't a you know a quote unquote good part of town because there's even distressed uh you know especially office and you know in Coral Gables and you know in you know coconut grove I mean we we were we were financing the development of spec homes in Coconut Grove and we had our signs all up and down Bayshore Drive in front of these some of these construction projects and other banks would be like why are you you know a spec home in Coconut Grove? Who the fuck would buy that? Yeah and uh well we didn't lend enough and we I should have bought the homes myself and um but yeah so we were you know again we were really more sponsor focused like is this a good individual that we want to you know do business with you weren't so much chasing the deal. It was um and I don't know that much about real estate let's say we work with the best real estate uh you know sponsors and operators in town and that's what that's where we'll go.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

It's very cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

It's rare I I don't know if it's rare but it seems rare to find bankers that are willing to look at the entrepreneur that way and not just the collateral yeah and so that was you know really our our secret sauce and why I think it had you know investors back so like, oh the business the the banking side they can figure out that the fact that we have an entrepreneur sitting in the captain seat and the yeah the the bankers will will do what they have to do to make sure that the ship doesn't crash uh but that we just had an entrepreneurial focus.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

It's almost like the way VCs underwrite a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

It's like the individual versus the the Yeah and and and we have to assume that things are going to go wrong. Is that the guy that we want operating this asset when when things do go wrong and that's how we would you know um you know trying to think at you know some of our clients without uh that that that's appropriate. But we we'd we'd want you know the the best people that knew what they were doing if things go wrong because we'd have to assume that things were were going to go wrong.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

You've mentioned twice both with uh the the call center and with Apollo that you're you're good at building culture and with people and the processes involved with all that like any specifics that you can speak to there? Like what what what did you do or what did you find worked with with the workforce that yeah I mean so you know the one thing you know and quite frankly I've I realized this um I think I always realized this but sort of you know more crystallized over the the past couple years.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

So I I wrote this book it's called It's all about relationships when I was selling uh when I went to sit down or write a book I thought I was going to write a book about you know strategy or finance and that sort of thing. But as I talked to people sort of strategy there's plenty of strategy books there's plenty of ideas about strategy there's plenty of you know people you can talk to about finance where I saw people get stuck was uh between relationships. People that were super super successful is like two partners you know got together and just sort of meshed. You know, there was a you know a Batman and a Robin or a a strategic vendor or something that really helped someone get along the way. And I looked back at my success and you know whenever I was successful it was because I it was I got things done through other people. I didn't know anything about banking but I partnered with this guy Richard Daly. I didn't know anything about banking early on but I developed you know a friendship with this woman Adrian Ars um and this was you know on and on you know even my brothers like just being like I can step away from this business and I know they're still going to create something in this so um that you know I I felt the best things that have happened in my life and the successes I've had have been uh by building relationships with great people and and having um that sort of trust between us and when things didn't go my ways because I didn't have the right relationship. I didn't know the right person I mishandled a relationship or communication or shit just happened and I fell on my butt and I didn't have the right people around me to help me get back on my feet. So that's just sort of always been ingrained in me and I realize now it's a sort of a superpower. So I really always start with you know I really care about people and I'm always trying to put myself in that person's shoes. You know one thing that I you know literally always so empathy right part of it part part part of it and but but it uh and so I hesitate because empathy um you know is like you know I I I I I I I understand what you know you feel or I feel what you feel I could put myself in your shoes. I mean I try it's like I want to view the I want to see what this person is seeing. Like I don't necessarily have to agree with you or feel where you're coming from um but what you know when I tell myself it's like what's going on with this human being like what is he trying to do you know with this business or this idea or what's what's his hang up how is he um again you know just sort of you know how are they viewing the world and I I just felt that I've always you know if I've had to fire something what I've always said so as an example you know I've had to fire you know a lot of people in my life and um you know one of the things that I've told people that report to me that I've had to fire people and they've been hesitant I go look the only thing the most important conversation that you're gonna have or that the most important person conversation that that that person's gonna have is not the one that you're that they're gonna have with you. It's when they go home and they have to talk to their spouse. So frame everything if you know if I have to let you go because things aren't aren't you know aren't going the way we need them to go is think about you know Philippe's going to go home and talk to his spouse, you know, his kids or whatever you you've really got to put yourself in that person like while you're firing them and letting them go, give them the dignity to handle that really, really hard conversation or give them enough clarity that they can explain it in a way that they need to in order to to move on because it you know tomorrow's going to come and they need to move forward and they will move forward but tonight's gonna be real shitty for them. And just try to always just convey and get my team and my people to view that you're dealing with other people. That that's what that's the hard part. You've got to you know it's how you communicate how you treat people try to see the world you know through their eyes. I was working with you know I do uh CEO and board advisory work and I have this you know super successful client and friend um who had to go to a meeting with him meet with investors uh in in in Chicago and uh he told one of his key guys like hey we're going to Chicago next week we're doing a big presentation and the guy that he told hesitated and he called him this this fucker he's always telling me he wants to get promoted whatever and I go hey I go maybe he really he had to check with maybe he's like his kids graduating and he means they're like oh shit I gotta go tell my wife I'm not going to graduate I go there might really be something happening in this guy's life he's like oh I didn't think of that I go yeah but people are people like they got it and so is you know take a beat it's not personal and um yeah and so you know and again I can go on and on about culture but it's uh you know culture is so much about you know it's almost everything that you do you know it's uh especially from a leadership standpoint I think yeah that's one of the key things that uh that only the leader is responsible for whether they like it or not they're the ones that drive culture and a culture is how you make every decision. Um so you know do you include others do you not include others do you not follow up do you follow up do you get to work early do you know do you reward the people that get there early um do you you know reward the glue guys of your organization or is it only the superstars um you know like are you guys Miami Heat fans? Yeah I mean yeah so you you know enough about the culture I mean Miami Heat they talk about you know the culture the culture the culture the the culture is not defined by Shaquille O'Neal or LeBron James or even you know quite frankly Dwayne Wade it's by Odonis Haslam a guy who sat at the end of the bench dude I would love do you know him I don't know him he'd be a guy he'd be a great guy I'd love to get him on this podcast all right let's make it happen because just what you said right like the culture is defined by that guy. Yeah like it's it's that hustle it's that well so I would say so I would say uh the culture uh is exhibited by him the culture is defined by Pat Riley who says I'm gonna reward this he doesn't play in the game but I'm still gonna reward him by you know giving him the best locker telling all the young guys you got to listen to him. He doesn't play any minutes but we're still gonna you know again pay him a lot of money celebrate him when he retires I don't know I actually went to his his retirement game and you know the uh halftime is whatever 15 20 minutes uh his retirement ceremony went off for 40 minutes and people are like we got to get on the court but you know Pat Riley and Mickey Arrows are like no no no no this guy gets all the time he wants they brought out his mom his dad his his kids his everything and they go this is what's important to our organization we get the rings because of people like him and I think that's a what a leader has to do is is you know not just celebrate the superstars but really celebrate what makes us special.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Yeah I think I I think his story is incredible. I mean he was the captain of the Heat for like 15 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

And even though they had Hall of Famers on yeah exactly and they celebrated so he was never going to get cut he was never going to get traded um he can get in anyone's face why do you think someone like him was the captain because I I think he exerted well I I think he earned the cap uh you know you a captain earns it by um exhibiting the values that are truly important you know the organization sometimes people say oh our values are whatever um you know service and caring and innovation but the values are really you know money you know take care of yourself you know whatever and with specifically as it relates to the heat you know the values work you work harder than anyone um you play tough and those and and he was all those things and they and they rewarded him for that and so they're like we say these are our values he exhibits them we reward that um and I again and I think it's part of of of uh of any organization an example that you know that I've given you know before and at the time that this happened I didn't um realize it but it became a story that carried throughout um you know Apollo Bank um there's I was having lunch you know here on South Miami Avenue you know back in the day on South Miami South Miami Avenue at a restaurant I was with a client and uh was was looking out uh out the window and and well so we left my office we walked over I took an umbrella and the guy's like why are you taking an umbrella? I'm like oh because it always rains in the summer here we're sitting having lunch all of a sudden it starts raining and there's a guy on the corner who happened to be a friend who happened to be a client standing being like how the you know how the after I get back to my office on Brickle and his office is on 800 Brickle and I'm like hold on that's my friend Tim so I went Tim what's up and he's like it's raining I go here I got an umbrella for you. He's like what are you doing? I'm like I go by the time I'm done with lunch it's gonna stop raining you take this and I came back and my client who I was sitting with was like what did you just do? I'm like I gave him my umbrella but it was raining and he's like what what about our umbrella and I go we're gonna be fine we're gonna make it back and um it's gonna stop raining and when I got back to it did stop raining when I got back to my office this client was like I can't believe what just happened. This he gave someone an umbrella and it was his client and it was his friend and he didn't let them get wet and Eddie was willing to get wet and we gave this guy an umbrella and he set it in front of our team and I saw that this guy was so impressed and I told our team that's how we treat customers we we we walk them to their car we make sure that they don't get wet and we give them the umbrella and we walk back in the rain so that they know that you know it's about you and it's not about us. And that just be we so we invested in the best umbrellas and if you talk to anyone who that was a client of Apollo like oh yeah they had amazing umbrellas that people still have you know 15 years later and uh and we go out of our way and we would celebrate if someone would do that. It rained you walk into the car you walk back in the rain that was a a badge of honor in our company. And the other thing so other banks would give out umbrellas that were always shitty that they would give out and we're like if you see anyone else with an umbrella that says pick the name of the bank you walk up to them and you give them our umbrella and you take that umbrella I'll give you this better umbrella but you got to give me your shitty umbrella and they'd be like all right cool I got rid of that shitty umbrella and so any so it's you know so culture is about all those little things that you celebrate all the little things that you do and and it's also about the things that you don't do right so if you don't exhibit those those habits. Did you ever read the book uh Captain Class? Yeah it's great yeah great but yeah so that so that's a lot of you know he captures a lot about what makes uh you know what makes a team captain it's not necessarily the it's the water carrier right yeah yeah that's right it's like giving away your umbrella yeah right like you got to do the dirty work sometimes and that that's that's who leads yeah and and the big and the teams that that that really succeed in dynastic teams is the you know whoever's sitting in the in the uh the owner's box recognize them be like the guy that's carrying the water I have to celebrate him I have to acknowledge him and maybe I don't pay him as much as I pay my superstar because that's not what the market is but but I need to to recognize him I need to honor them I need to you know give them you know keep them in the loop um so yeah it's a really interesting conversation because corporate culture to me always just seems like so much fluffy bullshit you know it's like these are our core pillars and it's always you you almost like roll your eyes when you see it you're like this is so lame but but the way you put it is is in a way that I never really thought about it before which is you reward the behavior that you wish to exhibit. So that that's really the key there is what do you reward because most companies say we reward honesty integrity meanwhile everyone's stabbing each other in the back to get the promotion and reward is certainly monetarily but reward can be uh you know that you celebrate them another reward especially like you know the glue guys the captain's like all right you know you may not be the superstar I can't pay you that much uh but but and and I'm gonna I'm gonna keep you on on the inside like hey by the way we're gonna open up a new office in Fort Lauder I want you to know before anyone else because you're my guy what do you think about it? Oh I think that's a good idea that that that you just keep them on the end. When you know that captain that glue guy if they find out that something big's happening and you didn't keep them in the loop you're gonna lose them.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

No it's it's really cool to hear. I mean coming from Minnesota everyone's very conscientious polite they act that way up there you come to Miami and it's a full on knife fight so it's nice to hear from a Miami guy that you're building organizations that aren't like That so yeah, and and then well, and then specifically in this market, you do that over the course of time, you really differentiate yourself. Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

And I feel like Miami is shifting more that way now, at least in the last Miami's still a a town where people running away from other problems come to reinvent themselves. Of course, but but again, but more the reason if you do those other things, you differentiate yourself. 100%. No, I love that. Yeah, I mean same thing, like you know, but we we talked about this before. You you you guys are are grinding out your past year or whatever, 110th podcast. It it's consistency, longevity. That's uh hard to come by in Miami. And I think you guys, you know, all the things that I've seen that you guys do and how you you know you treat clients, how you treat the market, how you treat even besides your real estate business, this podcast is a level of seriousness that over the course of time you know resonates with people and they see you. That's a great way to build a brand. I love that. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Um your point about it and I'm not and I'm not giving you lip circles. I'm already on the podcast. It's not like it's not like I'm hustling you. You're not gonna cut, you know, cut me off. I'm just trying to get invited back. Yeah, hey, we can I like this guy. Yeah. No, but it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

I mean, it's true. No, we appreciate it. It's it's sometimes it's hard. You have your head down for so long, and you're like, you know, where's the payoff? It's each, but it's it's like wrestling, just enduring the pain and grinding it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

Um, you were appointed by Obama in 2012 to uh the Inter-American Foundation Board. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

So uh what was that about like so the Inter-American Foundation is an independent US government agency. It's it's funded by an appropriation from Congress, so Congress approves a budget. And with the idea that um, well, nowadays, especially, is you know, the the best way to build democracies is not by you know dropping bombs or building, you know, literally building hospitals and just throwing money away, but it's going out to grassroots organizations. That means they're sort of bottom-up type of uh, you know, organizations throughout Latin America. So this organization focuses on this hemisphere, Latin America, the Caribbean, and be like, what do you need to do in order to build a better democracy to empower the people that aren't the, you know, associated with the the mil the military dictatorships that were a big part of you know Latin America for so long. And um the the organization was founded in the late 60s. It's actually founded by um uh you know by a guy here, well, a former congressman here in Miami called Dante Faselle. For Miami people, there's Dante Faselle Park in South Miami off-57th. It was Dante Faselle was uh the founder of this organization, or sort of the brainchild uh it was uh yeah, uh of this organization. And uh and yeah, and so the the idea was we're gonna build a uh a bipartisan organization that you know there's half the boards Democrats or half Democrats Democratic app uh appointed, half it's Republican appointed, and um, and other people from uh you know from government uh are gonna oversee this organization and oversee the uh the appropriation and we're gonna help build better partners throughout uh Latin America.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

But is it is the Inter-American Foundation affiliated with the Inter-American Bank?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

No, so that they're they're they're they're not related. They just happen to have a they kind of overlap in their work, they kind of look the same and they interact, but the Inter American Bank is a bank. They lend money. Uh Inter-American Foundation gives grants. So if you were a very typical thing, would be like uh, you know, a uh a rural community in in Guatemala will come to us and say, uh, we're uh this was actually very typical. Uh a group of in uh indigenous women in Latin America in Guatemala will come to us and say, you know, our little village is um is being influenced by uh uh military guerrillas, uh uh drug dealers, all that sort of stuff. And they've you know taken taken all of our men, taken all of our land. But if we can build our own little business here and have clean water and and develop uh and have uh that's run by women and you help educate us, you're educating women, educating, you know, the indigenous, giving us, you know, helping us develop a for-profit business that also gives uh clean water to our to our our uh our community, and and we're not, you know, no longer uh, you know, uh it's sort of uh you know, stuck at the whim of these drug dealers that we have to give away our land and that's right. So they'll come up with this big idea as opposed to just give me a handout, and they have to raise their own money and you know from either foundations or or make it, you know, show a for-profit business. And we'll give them a grant. And part of what um the Inter-American Foundation does is oversee them and audit and make sure they're really spending the money that they're doing and provide you know consulting uh related services. And it's been a you know very successful organization.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

Well, since uh And how how large how large are the grants usually?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

So yeah, so so it again, it's it's grassroots. So so the grants are usually like on average like $400,000. So um that's yeah, yeah. Especially you know, for a community in Guatemala, yeah. And and the way it would be set up would be um there's usually like $400,000 over like two or three, four or five years, and they had to find um uh matching dollars, sort of two to one. And and they would get from not you know, either from their own government or from low other, you know, sort of you know, people within their country, um, or or other sort of uh you know charitable foundations, and they would, because they had the support of the Inter-American Foundation and we were gonna audit them and oversee them, that that would be sort of a and uh a sort of a risk mitigator and help them uh so yeah. So I was appointed in 2012, you know, had to go through U.S. Senate confirmation and remained on the board until uh early last year.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Well you were there 13 years. Yeah. Holy shit, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

So I I you know, I so it was I was what's called an SGE, a special government employee. So I had to adhere to all the ethical standards of uh of a back when we had ethical standards in government, so I had to adhere to those things and file financial reports, but I wasn't paying, I wasn't paid by the government. And uh I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:41

I think you're gonna notice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

And I had to uh and yeah, it was super interesting. I mean, I I you know, quite frankly, hated dealing with, you know, Capitol Hill and and sort of the the intergovernment um and just you know this sort of you know bureaucracy. I didn't I didn't enjoy that, but I did like it really, I felt it was sort of the the USA at at the at its best, where we didn't show up with guns and handouts. It was we're gonna, you know, we're gonna help you and assist you, but we're also gonna help uh hold you accountable and set standards. Uh it was great. And and so we we were well actually it's funny, it's specific. I happen to mention Guatemala because I went there several times. Guatemala was one of those countries where uh uh USAID um or other organizations were were consistently thrown out of the country, uh, but uh the Inter American Foundation never was. So these other organizations, like, hey, can you go to this meeting with us and can you help us out? And you know, what programs are you gonna fund? You know, maybe we can help you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

So I was actually, I lived in Guatemala for two years. Okay. And I was in the Peace Corps there. Oh, were you really? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

Oh, so all of our almost all of our employees at Inter American Foundation were former Peace Corps uh volunteers. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

So it was uh Are they former Peace Corps or are they CIA? Because it could go either way. It could go either way.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

But that's a whole other story. So uh at the time I was there and years before, uh, they really were, and as you know, Peace Corps volunteers are amazing people. Uh there are some people that stay in there too long.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

Some some of them are.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:03

Yeah. And some of them stay in too long and they're just whack, they don't know how the real world works, and they don't uh, you know, it's not about efficiency and accountability and that sort of thing. So that was, you know, certainly one of the issues in dealing with uh, you know, the culture at the Inter-American Foundation. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

All right, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:19

And so you you started Apollo. Meanwhile, you're on all these boards. Yeah. Was the aim with Apollo always to sell?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Or yeah, I mean, and so um the the aim was, you know, we're gonna build a really a really good company, or I'd say we're gonna build a great company uh that's always worth, you know, a lot more money than when we started. Um, but there was always an understanding that the the real way to make money with a community bank is uh you have an exit, you know, you have you know some sort of liquidity event. And I had these investors that were in, you know, myself included, you know, in the deal for for 12 years. And so when our number was hit, um, you know, we sold the bank. But you know, so I I spoke at uh at right after we sold Apollo.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Did you earn did you earn us some fuck you fuck you money or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, uh I I made enough where I can just sit here and fuck around with you guys and have uh gym and tonic and and and and write a book and and that sort of thing. Um I mean we're doing it too. I don't know if that's much about us. And um, so it you know, it was it was a great experience, a hit sort of um certainly, you know, goals that that I wanted to achieve. Um, but the goal, you know, it there was always an understanding that uh that that realistically this can't this can't go on forever. And that was, you know, that was one quite frankly one of the hard parts because of our employees, because of our clients. But it was the right thing, I believe, for certainly for me and sir, for our investors. But even, you know, one of the best things, you know, I talked to a lot of people that have an exit from their business, especially ones that have uh investor outside investors, and and people like, oh, are you, you know, just you know, so happy and are you, you know, exhilarated and all this? And it's like, no, I just feel like this giant burden was on my back because I would feel all my investors, well, I'd say all almost all my investors uh were local, all of the investors I had a personal relationship with. So I'd go to a party, I'd go to a wedding and be like, oh, you know, how's the business doing? How's the business going? What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:10

Like, I'm gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

And even my wife, I didn't, you know, I never realized my even my wife felt that like, oh, I'm just so glad that this guy made money and that guy made money. And uh we have friends that, you know, they bought a boat and they called it Apollo. And I I love that. I mean, and so, but I didn't have I always felt that there was like this burden on my back that I owed to these people. You know, having said that years later, like, oh, you shouldn't have sold a bank. And I'm like, I wish I wish you would have you know, made me feel you know less stressed for for the years before. But I it was I I believe the right time and we found the right partner. And I'm still involved in the company that bought us, the bank that bought us. Who bought you guys? The bank called Seacoast Bank. I'm still on the board and the CEO, he and I had had a relationship for several years before. So what I was gonna say is when we sold Apollo, uh shortly thereafter, I spoke at uh at the MBA program at uh at Nova Southeastern. And one of the students, after hearing my presentation, said, Um, when did you start the process of selling the bank? I go, the day we opened it. The day we opened it, I was always in the market, you know, saying, what are we worth? What do we have to do to get to this number? Who are the right investment bankers? Who are our possible takeout partners? Who are the lawyers? And just always and I have that, you know, in the in the book is that if you, you know, whatever your end goal is, you start working on those relationships now. You know, maybe it's not the primary thing you're doing, but if you're if you're in a business and you're thinking about selling it, even if it's five years from now, you know, start interviewing investment bankers. Start thinking about who your takeout partner is. Think about you're gonna be married to that, you know, you're gonna be in a gruesome and negotiation. Make sure you start to you know lay some of the groundwork now. And so we were we, you know, we worked, well, when I say we, it was me, you know, it was you know, working on that from you know, from day one. And I knew that day would would always come. And the company Seacoast that bought us, I knew the CEO uh Chuck for five years. And we, you know, we were friends. And uh so when they bought us, um, you know, remained as an executive for a year and then went on the board, and that was you know, kind of always what I wanted and and on the plan. I still remain uh on the board of directors of Seacoast.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:04

How long did the negotiation take?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:06

It was pretty quick. So like I said, there was a courtship. Um, you know, banking's you know, different in that there's a lot of you know, comps and metrics, and you know, sort of what the market can bear. Um Seacoast was a you know is a serial acquirer. So there's a lot of information in terms of what they can pay, what you know, what are their sticking points on the negotiation. I had you know prepped our board of directors of you know, these are the things that are really important, these are the terms. So it was uh pretty quick. Uh, you know, we gave them a very short window for due diligence and they met that and negotiation was was was super you know pretty straightforward.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:40

How is the bank valued? Because most businesses are on like a multiple of EBITDA, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

So what's yeah, so so this was, you know, the there's a bunch of ways um and different metrics, but at the end of the day, you know, um, you know, all all businesses are are based on you know on earnings. So it's some sort of value and what they can pay for. So, you know, any business that's you know, they say, you know, based on ear uh on EBITDA, and it's it's really earnings and what that company, the acquirer, can the risks they're willing to take and um and what they're willing to pay. So in our case, we knew that Seacoast was going to be able, they had the ability because of where their stock price was, because of their history of of integrating companies, and they were again sort of a serial acquirer. Um, they could pay the multiple that that we could. And we knew that there were some companies um that were super interested in us, but that they weren't, they didn't have the experience in acquisition. So it might take longer to do the, you know, to get to our number or even get through due diligence. And I didn't want to drag it out. Yeah, you wanted to go with a sure thing, yeah, more or less. Yeah. And and then so, but we, you know, we worked it for a long time. And uh, I mean, even just to go back a little, um I you know I it I'd actually sold the bank. So we had sold the bank in uh December of 2019. We'd signed a deal to sell to to another bank, and it was like exactly what I wanted. I thought it was great. Um you know, went through the whole process of telling clients, investors, employees of that we were selling to a different company. And um we were you know, because the one issue with banks is you need to get regulatory approval, and that takes a while. So we were scheduled to uh close on that deal in May of 2020. And you guys know what happens in March and April of 2020. And COVID came and the business went, you know, sort of the deal went sideways, and and our acquirer uh didn't get regulatory approval. It's not that they were denied, it's that the regulators is like, well, we're trying to deal the world might be coming to an end. Uh, we're not approving this deal until there's more clarity. And for us, we couldn't drag, you know, they tried, you know, they were great people, um, but we couldn't drag the deal on. And so having to pivot and be like, you know, I thought I was like, oh, this COVID thing, I'm gonna stay at home for two months and sell the business and then travel around the world. And um, that didn't happen. So I have to go from, you know, basically doing nothing and thinking about retiring to like, oh shit, I've got to turn around this business. Who the hell knows what's gonna happen? This PPP came out, and PPP was, you know, this flood flood of cash. For banks, it was, it was uh, well, it turned out to be a great earnings opportunity. But at the time we didn't know was, you know, the president and secretary of treasury gets on TV and says, literally, go to your local bank, ask them for the PPP money, and they will give it to you that same day. And every single bank in this country, from Wells, I mean, from yeah, from Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JP Morgan, like, what the fuck are you talking about? We have no idea what you're talking about. And so having to scramble and be like, oh, I thought we were coming in for a landing and now we're pulling up and we're, you know, have to travel, you know, around the world again. That was, you know, super difficult process. So I had already gone through um, you know, that that sort of you know gymnastics with our with our board, with our investors and our employees, and uh, and having to recreate the business. It turned out, you know, sold the company for more. We built a bigger company. I had an incredible experience. Our employees were happy, or uh certainly our investors and and our clients, but uh, but yeah, had having to sell in the same business twice uh was you know probably one of the more interesting things I've done in my career. Hell of a fire drill. Yeah. It was uh so the story I tell it was uh it was every you know, it was like a big goal that I had wanted to accomplish. I'd already called all of our investors. Um, you know, one of the things I was very proud of, I called all the people that had helped me, like literally all the people that had helped me, and been like, Ben, you know, tomorrow or yesterday, you might have heard it were selling the bank, and I just want to thank you for everything. I want to do and and so many people were like impressed, like that was such a great thing for you to do to make hundreds of phone calls one-on-one. And and then they had to call them back. Oh, by the way, it's off now. And that was it, you know, I was an emotional roller coaster. I'm sure. And when we announced, and so I was devastated when I had to call when the other CEO called me and said, Hey, like, I just I was talking to regulators, ain't gonna happen. You know, can we work out a deal? And we couldn't work out a deal. And I had to call my board of directors, and they were all like, hey, buddy, don't worry about it. We're behind you. This isn't your fault. And I called some of our key investors and they're like, Great, we love the business, we don't want you to sell anyways. And I had to get in front of my employees, and at that time it was, you know, all Zoom. And now we're used to Zoom. At that time, I wasn't used to Zoom. And I'll tell, hey, you know, later today I'm gonna send out an announcement. Um, the deal's off and here's why. And uh, we're gonna remain as Apollo Bank. And I need for all of you guys to stay behind me.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:14

And let me ask you a question. At this point, are you telling your employees, like, listen, you guys are all gonna get a nice little bonus here at some point? Like they're all expecting something, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

So yeah, and so that's what I thought. They all thought, like, oh, I have this problem. You know, I had painted a pretty picture for that. Yeah. And so I thought they were all gonna be devastated. And I'm looking at my little laptop, and there's, you know, 120 little faces on the screen, and they all erupt and they're all cheering. And I'm like, oh, they're not what the hell's going on? And they're all like, hey, we were excited to work for you and for this company. We signed it to work for Apollo, not for this other company. You know, let's and I said, Hey, look, you know, now, you know, today's the first day of Apollo Bank 2.0. And so I feel the question from someone who's like, Okay, I'm so excited. This is, you know, you're I'm behind you 110%. Can you tell us a little bit more about Apollo Bank 2.0? What is that? I go, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:59

I just made that up. I thought you guys were all making this up. I wasn't ready for this reaction. I was riding the wave.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

Yeah, and then having to realize that, oh, I was really the only one disappointed and having to motivate myself. That was one of the key things I had to is um find my own self-motivation and realize I I, you know, I've got to run another marathon. Um, you know, I I thought it was only 26 miles. It turns out it's 50 miles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:20

Speak speaking of marathons, um just to go a little off track here. I mean, you you are a wrestler. Yeah. Do you still do you still exercise?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:29

I don't wrestle. I'm still actually very much involved uh with the with the wrestling program at my old high school. I call it. But I yeah, but I don't wrestle.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:35

Do you you still do any exercise? Yeah, so I look like you're in shape.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

Yeah, so I yeah, I try. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, the uh yeah, so I I um I try to run when I can. I go to the gym, you know, try to so now I work from home. So I, you know, and I live in Coral Gables in a you know tree-lined canopy street. And so I I spend a lot of time walking and talking and doing all that stuff. So I I try to I try to do what I can, but I'm not I'm not like maniacal. I'm not like uh, you know, ultra marathons and you know, CrossFit and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:03

I just try to even during your holidays, were you the kind of guy that gets up early?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

No, I'm not an early guy. I just try to do something throughout the day. So I mean, I was before became like the 10,000 step. I try to, you know, hey, you know, Philippe, let's meet up, let's go for a walk and we'd walk and talk with with you know my team. Um, I for a long time, you know, now I have a much less uh less of a stressful life, but uh uh running was a a very uh a big stress reliever for me. Uh you you guys know Tad would go running with Tad. Tad's much faster than me, but we lived in the same narrative.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:34

Tad, I saw a picture of him the other day. He's on Team Spa. You know what Team Spa is? Skinny people against wind. I mean, he looks like he's running marathons, that guy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:44

Yeah, yeah. I don't think he eats. Yeah, he eats grass.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:47

Um we, you know, we would run shape. He's in good shape, he's in good shape, man. I'm fucking with you, Tad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:53

And uh, but but uh running was a big stress reliever. And like I I you know, I've always sort of informally mentored and and and coached people. And now I, you know, uh part of what I do is you know formally coach people. And I'd say one of the best things you can do, you know, as as therapeutic is go for a run and just don't you don't even don't worry about stretching out, don't worry about how anymore just get out the door and don't make excuses and just go.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

Whether you run, you know, 13 minute miles or seven, whatever it is, just go, man, and clear your head.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:20

Even a walk. Oh, even a walk. Absolutely. Listen, I I love walking. I think walking is probably one of the healthiest things you can do.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:26

100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:27

Don't don't bring your phone, like, don't look at your phone. Like, I don't even like listening to music, just go out for a walk for an hour.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

I'm with you. Yeah. I thought I told you I was gonna walk here and then I realized it was freaking hot as well. I forgot how hot it gets uh in the summer.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

But yeah, I mean so I was like, Eddie's a fucking urbanist. He's fucking walking from Brickland in the middle of May. I'm like, holy shit, I thought you're gonna learn more.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:47

I thought you're on the other side of the bridge.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:48

But yeah, and so one of the reasons I run less is because I I walk, I just like walking.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:53

Um yeah. So what's it been like ever since he sold the bank? Just been chilling.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:57

So yeah, so uh so so three things is one learning how to chill. And and most people so I mean you wrote a whole damn book. Yeah, so one of the things I mean, you're you're what, you're 54. Oh my next week. 53. All right. So um When's your birthday, by the way? What day? June 11th. Okay, it's right around the corner. You're 54. Yeah. So yeah, so you know, you know, 51 or you know, about 51 and I sold the business. And um yeah, and so one of the things when when anyone sells a business or retires or does whatever, anyone, just to be, I think, polite or just curious, like, hey, what are you gonna do next? And if you're on the receiving end of that question, your mind is just like, I need to give a really good answer. And so you start to come, oh, I'm gonna start another business. You can't say, I'm just gonna chill. And uh, I struggled with that, you know, like I need to give a really good answer. I'm involved in this and that. And uh, and then one day just realizing, like, I don't know anybody a good answer. And I have a great home and I have a great pool that I never went in. I'm just like, what's wrong with being in a Monday at two o'clock in the afternoon, just like chilling in the pool? And so getting really good at finally, yeah, relaxing and enjoying my life. Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm involved, you know, I'm a I'm an active investor. I'm uh, you know, in in real estate and businesses and just managing my, you know, sort of my own portfolio. Um I'm a CEO and board advisor, so I have clients across the country, you know, banks, uh, real estate uh CEOs, uh some you know, tech companies where I'm doing one-on-one CEO coaching and board advisoring, helping companies sort of get to the next level. I'm formally involved as a board member of in four different companies.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:34

This guy can help us out, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

And I'm on uh yeah, so I'm on the board of you know, formally for four different companies. Um, and then one of the things I wanted to do um was write a book. And then since I had time, I went through the process of you know, what am I gonna write about? And how does one go about writing a book?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:50

And just yeah, talk a little talk a little bit about that process. Like when did you were like, all right, I'm gonna write a book?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Yeah. So I was seven years old. I was seven years old. I remember literally being seven years old. And and you know, being at a at a bookstore in uh in South Miami at uh on Sunset Drive, and it's called A Likely Story as a kids bookstore, and being like, Oh, one day I want to see my name, you know, on on on uh on the spine of a book on a bookshelf. And just I just love books and and that sort of thing. And it's always found excuses and writing's hard, especially the sort of the type of book and the quality of the five.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:22

But you've always enjoyed writing.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:23

I've always enjoyed writing and writing, and so like my employees, and I even talk about this in my book, like um every Friday I would send what's called the Friday email. My name's Eddie, so it's sort of like the E in quotes. And I would send a long email about it wasn't a newsletter. I'm sorry, it wasn't like a you know corporate newsletter of like this person's birthday, or it was uh talking about our culture, talking about things that are important, just even just talking about the things that I'm interested in. You know, I saw this movie, and this here's why I think it's important, why I should share it with you. And it's all about culture and uh having uh and uh at least what I thought, sort of setting the example of being interested and interesting. So not just be like, hey, let's talk about the dolphins. Like, no, try to find out what that person really wants to hear and talk about. So I always knew I wanted to write a book, and so after uh we sold the bank, you know, I I you had to think about what I wanted to write about.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:11

And I thought you sold it in 2022, October 2022.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:14

Then so going into 2020.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:15

So you're coming in on four years.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:17

Yeah. Coming in three years. So going in like in 2023, I go, Let me, you know, how does you know the hard part about writing a book is putting your butt in the seat, you know, just being like, all right, I'm gonna sit alone when I, you know, when I when I see Ben or Philippe, what are you doing? I'd say, Oh writing a book.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:31

Like, what the what the fuck is that? Like, what does that mean? You're doing nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:34

It just sounds so daunting sitting down in front of a blank word document. Like, what where do I start?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:38

And and and so that's one of the things you don't sit in front of a blank document. You said so. One of the things I'm old enough where I accumulated like I like I said, I always knew I wanted to write a book and and uh accumulated like um newspaper clippings, and that's what I'm like, oh, here's an idea, or here's something about corporate culture I value. And so I would keep those things and put them in in my email or newsletters or talks that I would give to our team. So I had sort of like this raw material, literally just on index cards, and I started to sort of assemble like a like a movie director would would assemble sort of a story and scenes and that sort of thing. And as I started to learn about writing, I saw that that's how most people write. Um they don't sit in front of a blank screen to start typing. It's they think about sort of scenes and stories and and then you sort of assemble it all together and it's more about structure. So it took me about a year to learn that the most important thing aren't necessarily the words, because you're gonna have editors and grammar experts and that sort of thing. It's about the structure. And so the structure of my book, I think, is you know, uh it makes it easier to read. Every story, every chapter starts uh with a story taken either from sports or history or business or popular culture and sort of conveys an idea. Then I go deeper into the idea with more stories, some of my own, and again, some from popular culture or history or sports. And at the end of every chapter, there's um, you know, quick takeaways. And the book's called it's all about relationships and about how how one leads through other people by developing a relationship. And there's what I call a relationship audit. And so it's like it asks a series of questions. And so learning how to structure a book was took me a year, especially the book I wanted to write. And then actually writing the book about another year, and then you go through the publishing process and you know, select. How do you find a publisher? There's a they'll find you. Yeah, they'll find you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:18

No, but I mean, you so like you and you're you're like, okay, I'm writing a book.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

Like, what's what's you you start to reach out to people, and so like so I work with what's called like a hybrid publisher. So it's a professional publisher that you know walks you through the process and they have uh editors and uh proofreaders and all this sort of stuff. But uh the burden of sort of marketing it uh falls on me. And that's why that's one of the reasons I'm here today. No, but but but how do you pitch this idea of a book to a publisher? Yeah, so you you well, you start with an outline and you start so most of it is like here's a you know, especially books by uh leadership books and and books by business people and almost anything really, like especially you know, nonfiction that I'll call again, leadership or how to books, it's one central idea. You need to lock in a one central idea. My you know it can't be 50 freaking things. And if you look at there's a book now called um, there's a guy named uh I'm forgetting, I think it was David Epstein, and he wrote a book called Range. And his whole idea is about uh being a generalist is what's most important. And starting with little kids, when you try to have kids specialize in sports, what really matters is that they play all the sports. And and so but he has this one idea of forget about what you thought you knew. This is what really matters. And so it's locking away. And so my whole thing was relational leadership that what really matters is that a leader needs to develop these one-on-one relationships with these key, what I call arenas in their life in their business life. And and this, and so I everything, everything and on every page is about relational leadership, relational leadership. So you lock in on one central idea. You show, like, here's the table of contents and here's how I'm gonna break it out and teach this person. Um, and here's sort of my style. My style is uh I'm gonna use, you know, 20% and book is almost like 20% of sort of my personal stories. And then I'm gonna use these other stories that are gonna be a combination of, again, popular culture and movies and sports, and that's gonna be my style. And they're like, all right, yeah, we, you know, people read that. That's that seems like something, but you've got to mark and you've got to do this. And so I've, you know, committed to what I call like a hundred-week strategy of marketing the book. So if you follow me on LinkedIn, I'm doing a little something every day. I'm doing podcasts, I'm doing uh events across the country. I send this book out to different CEOs because, you know, I don't know what the last book that you read. Chances are it was someone referring, someone referred it to you, someone's like uh recommended to you, and then a few months later you bought it, and then a few months, and then it's sat on by your night's dinner on your desk for a few months, and then eventually you read it, and then you told everybody about it. So it's a very long process. So I've committed to this very long process. But you just launched this book like a couple of weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:53

Yeah, not even not even.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:54

So it was a big launch and you know, it hit sort of my my personal goals. You know, we have books and books, right? Well, so it was uh first announced, yes. So um one of my goals was to be uh in my category, which is a couple of different categories, um, but in uh coaching and mentorship to be a number one Amazon bestseller, and it was that for a little over a week, and so that was a personal goal. And then I did uh an event at Books and Books, and that was like literally like one of the best moments of my life because I had imagined that since I was a little kid. That's amazing. That's awesome. Yeah, and it was uh, and I told people that were there. I mean, I was, you know, I I think people felt the emotion, and I'm like, you know, you guys are part of it. You you guys are part of a dream coming true. And it was, and then the the story that I've told was so it was at Books and Books. My dream was to have it at Books and Books. I didn't know that to have an event at Books and Books, you have to notify months in advance. And I called, you know, to show up. Yeah, I sent I got some books. I sent an email like you know, two or three weeks ahead of time, like three weeks ahead of time. And I sent, I copied Mitch Kaplan, who I've known for a long time, and and the person who runs the events, like, hey, I'm launched a book. And they're like, You want to do this Easter week, and it's also Passover week. We have a million things going on. Uh, we're booked through summer. Maybe we can get you in in August. I'm like, Oh, I fucked up. I fucked up. The next day, Mitch Kaplan replies back, like, I'm sorry, I missed this email. Whatever Eddie wants, he uh give it to him. There's a long-term relationship. Now I wrote a book called It's All About Relationships. Whatever he wants, he gets, uh, make it happen. And then his team jumped through hoops and made it happen. We we made the announcement and it was sold out within hours. That's it. And they called, yeah, it was incredible. And they called back, and it was 175 people, and they go, hey, like shit, like you know, big-time authors like don't, you know, uh, we'll get a bigger venue for you. I go, no, no, no. I've always dreamed of having this event at Books and Books filled and Mitch Kaplan being there. And I had going back to the history reference and my history teachers and Christopher Columbus and my dear friend, my former high school history teacher, John Linsky, do like the interview. And I go, that's the dream. The dream is not to be wherever else. And so that's what we did, and it was really an incredible moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:03

That's awesome. We've been told we uh by several people, I think that we need to get Mitch on the on the podcast. Oh, he's he'd be a pretty interesting person to have on here. That'd be awesome. I think Lyle Stern is the one that mentioned that, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:14

Yep. Uh he is a you know, an institution. I mean, he's an amazing human being. Yeah, he's a cultural institution in Miami. And if and if you were to take a real estate uh angle on this, which you don't need to because the guy qualifies, I mean, this guy's I mean, he's literally world famous in the literary community in Hollywood, people know who he is. Really? Yeah. And um, but if you think about, you know, he created, you know, along with Miami Dade Community College, the Miami International Book Fair, which is a big deal in, you know, he kind of he's he's the godfather.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:43

He runs it, spearheaded. Yeah. And then, you know, and his property is one of the biggest book fairs in the world, the world in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:49

His property in Coral Gables, you know, really makes it, you know, sort of a cultural touch point. Yeah. It's a beautiful property. Yeah, it's a beautiful property. Uh, you know, it's somewhere the people just want to go and hang out and sort of enhances the value of every every you know, everyround. Oh, I love this book. So it's yeah. And so, you know, and and now more people are starting to see like having a bookstore, you know, real estate development is really important. Yeah. And so, you know, I I'd argue that uh real estate developers should uh you know give them you know submarket leases because they draw people in and really create you know a culture. And so and so Mitch gets that, people calling from all over the world. I mean, uh Tom Hanks wanted to open up a bookstore and he like you know called is like I want to talk to you, I want I want to open a bookstore and so he has some great, he has some incredible stories. He's met countless cool and famous people, and he's been in Miami well for a long, long time. He's an incredible dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:38

What a cool thing to hear a dream come true, full circle. Like what an awesome moment that must have been.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:44

No, and and it's been, you know, I you know, I wrote the book and I didn't think anyone would read it and to have it resonate. So the book is, you know, so one of the things I tell first-time writers is write to one person. Think about one person and only keep that person in mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:57

Who did you write to?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

My uh, the 35-year-old Eddie. And it's the book's like, uh, you know, as a CEO, you need to do this. As a C. And so I really focused on a CEO building a business and the relationships that need they need to focus on. What I didn't realize is that I've gotten so much feedback from people that aren't CEOs and saying, no, this is help me think more strategically about all my relationships. I mean, I've you know, had um, there's like a, you know, an at, you know, a mother's group that are you know no longer working that started reading that goes, no, this helps us think more strategically and not just about friends, but like strategically of all the relationships we have to manage. It gives us practical tools of how to, you know, do outreach, deal with people that we have to have a relationship that we don't like, which because that's really important. Yeah. It's not just about friends. And then um, you know, two quick stories. Um, I've had a lot of older people call and say, hey, can I do a book order? I want to send this to my grandkids because I've always told I've built my business uh based on relationships. And I love the title. I don't even know if my grandkids are going to read the book, but um I love the title and I want them to know it. And, you know, can you sign it? And so I've had a bunch of stories like that. And then a few weeks ago, you might have seen this on LinkedIn. I had a booster for Cornell University men's lacrosse team, which I didn't know they were NCAA championship, defending national championships at uh champions. They didn't win this year.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:15

They're not as good as Syracuse for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:17

For Syracuse historically is the best, but but they're near that probably.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:20

My brother went to Cornell, fuck them.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:22

Yeah. And I get a call from and they go, look, we're defending champions. We're about to go to the Ivy League tournament, and I want to talk to this team and tell them that it's not about the rings or the trophies that they're gonna win. It's about the relationship they build with the other 49 guys in the locker room. And I love that. And he's like, Can I order 50 and you sign them and send them to me in in Ithaca, New York? I'm like, Yeah, of course. I'd love to do that. And so little stories like that in this day of this day and age of uh AI and work from home, you know, the concern is, you know, our as a younger generation can do this, right? Because you because you you guys can do this via so we're we're in person right now for those not watching the video. You can do this via Zoom, you can do this via, but to be one-on-one and say, I'm gonna spend a couple hours with someone to get to know them is unfortunately becoming a lost art.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:07

We haven't done a single Zoom one.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:08

Yeah, and we never will.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:10

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:11

No, it's uh there's something about being in person with someone.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:14

That that really changes the dynamic.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:16

You can't cheer through the computer.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:17

No, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:18

It's not the same. It doesn't work. It's not the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:21

Let me ask you a question, though. Uh, just going back on books, because you know, when I think relationships, um one of the first books I think is uh Dale Carnegie's book. How old were you when you read that book?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:34

How to win friends and influence people?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

Uh an adult. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:37

I don't remember exactly when.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:38

Yeah. And so but so I have like a whole little campaign going in that, um, or about to go out. And so one of the things is if you like that book, you'll love this book. Because that that's about uh, well, you know, how to make you know friends and influence. And it's a little, I feel a little transactional. Uh-huh. And I feel it's like you you need to take a long-term view. You really need to care about the individual, not pretend to care about them. Um, or you know, not not um, again, not to be transactional, not to be sort of um, you know, deceitful in how you're influencing them. Is it's really like care about that other person and try to, you know, align your goals, really find a real connection and realize that this is, especially as a leader, um, we're not talking about getting uh, you know, an upgrade at the you know, Hertz rental car line. Yeah, it's about building long-term value and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:26

So yeah, Dale Carnegie's is more like the car salesman, right? That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:30

And this is more like say their name over and over again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, there's but people see through that because now everybody's read that book. Yeah, and and people, you know, see through that shit. But it's um, you know, it it's it's the it's the guy that remembers, you know, down the road, you have a one-time conversation, like, oh yeah, you know, you were you were Minnesota, oh yeah, you were in Guatemala, you were in the Peace Corps, and they see some article about the the Peace Corps, you know, three months from now and send it to you, and you're like, Oh, the guy remembered. It's he's not just sending me info on a real estate transaction. So it's those little things as opposed to falif, faliba, falipa. You know, you're like, I get it, dude. You're at Dale Carnegie's book.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:06

Um well, thank you. You brought us a couple of copies here. Listen, I'm definitely gonna read this. I'd love to it's all about relationships is the title, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:13

It's all about relationships.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:14

It's only been out for five weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:16

Yeah, and it's still selling and it's still going. I'm doing uh various events, and I, you know, I I believe in the message and I believe in um you know in that it's really important to build relationships. And I I think people, you know, more less people are reading. Uh there'll be an audiobook. I don't know when this actual podcast is gonna air, but the audiobook should be coming out in the end of June. I'm doing it myself. Are you reading it? Uh I'm reading it, which is really hard work. Yeah, I have to sit in the studio for three days. Yeah, it's great. So the book's only 205 pages, and um, I have to be three days in a studio for six hours of recording. And I've had to hire a voice coach and all that sort of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:53

Where are you gonna where are you gonna record this?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:56

Here in Miami, it's some I have I don't know. Yeah, I think it's in Winwood or actually North Miami somewhere. Okay, yeah, some studio.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:02

So I mean you're 54. Like I'm only 53. 53. Maybe when this comes out, I'll be 54. You'll be 54 by the time this comes out. Um, I mean, you're really young. Yeah. Um do you imagine starting another? I mean, you kind of have another business now, right? Where you're coaching.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:19

Yeah, you know, so and I can do, you know, a bunch of things. So I I you know, I'm busy and I'm trying to it. So uh I'll I'll tell you, uh beginning of this year, I got a call from a headhunter and a private equity investor. It's like, hey, we've got this company, you think you'd be great. You know, would you be interested? You here's what we'd pay. Here's uh the upside. I'm like, yeah, it sounds great. I can do that job. That sounds really cool. And the money sounds really good. That that gets me going. I go, but here's the other things that would be really important. Can I bring in my own team? Can I, you know, and they're like, well, you know, we kind of like our team and we and I'm like, because let me tell you what you're negotiating with is I don't have to go to work. And when we hang up, I remember it was Monday at 10 o'clock. When we hang up, I'm going to the gym. Like I'm with my workout clean. I'm gonna be in the pool at two o'clock. I go, maybe I'll take a shower later. And so it's gotta be the right fit. So it's not like um the answer is not, you know, no or no way, but it's you know, I I truly value my time. I I I like my wife, I like my kids, I like my friends. Uh it's gotta be super interesting to do uh something different. But as you said, I'm young, and so I it if you were if I were to bet on it, yeah. So chances are 20 years from now, if I were to sit back here with you, part of the story, the 20-year update would probably be that I started another business or took over another business or partnered with some. I'd love leading people. I wrote another book. Yeah. So, but I know hopefully I can do those things along the way. So yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:45

I love the whole leading people thing. That's it, it's it's it's not everyone that loves to do that, right? Um and uh do you is there a certain industry that you're interested in?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:57

I'm not so I'm industry agnostic. I mean, so um, if I wanted to, if I had to be honest, if I wanted to be in banking, I'd still be in banking. Uh it's a very hard business to make money in. It's you know, it's super regulated. Um, you know, uh interest rates change over the course of time, but right now it's a very tough interest rate environment. There's not enough of a spread. Um so maybe for the right scenario, I I I would I would jump into that, but but that wouldn't be the first thing that I would jump in. But I'm well again, you when you guys hit on I'm more interested in in leading people and working with people and motivating and coaching and uh assembling a team and changing out a team. I I love all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:34

Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:34

Um yeah. That's why, you know, quite frankly, like real estate, you know, I I I invest in real estate, but to be like an active real estate guy, that doesn't play into my strengths because you could be super successful at real estate and not you don't have maybe not have to build a team. Um, even though you, you know, if that is a skill set you develop and you develop a real estate team and build a company around that, you know, that that could be something special you could do. But that's not what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:57

All right, cool. Love it. What a story, Eddie.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:59

Yeah, thanks for coming down. It's great to meet you. Eddie, this is like the first time we've had someone that's really non well we we we had Frankie Ruiz on here a couple weeks ago, but anyone really not non-real estate.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:10

Well, I've I've lent out billions of dollars and real uh two real estate developers.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:14

I'm glad we did this interview though, because like it was really cool to get into the whole banking and entrepreneur side of thing, and now we got an author. I'm definitely gonna read your book, by the way. And I'm not just saying that. I will thank you. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:26

Yeah, you can order at Amazon, you can buy the Books and Books and Coral Gables. We're both big readers, so that's great to hear. Oh, well, then then I hope you like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:33

Definitely. Awesome. Well, cheers. Cool, Eddie. Have a great evening.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:35

Great guys, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:37

Yeah, thank you.