189. Know Thyself – Unpacking Socrates' Timeless Wisdom on Self-Examination and Personal Growth

Ever wondered why you make the decisions you do, or why suffering seems to be life's ultimate teacher? 

In this thought-provoking episode of Dennis Rox Podcast, hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike dive deep into Socrates' famous directive: "Know thyself." Joined by guest Dre, they explore how constant self-examination uncovers our ignorance, builds wisdom, and leads to a more fulfilling life. From the pitfalls of idolizing celebrities like LeBron James or Andrew Tate, to the role of mentors versus blind fandom, and even the genetic limits on our potential—this discussion challenges you to question your beliefs, embrace discomfort, and invest in real change. Whether you're grappling with personal decisions, seeking virtue, or curious about philosophy's take on modern life, this episode offers actionable insights to navigate cognitive dissonance and live with purpose.

Key Takeaways:

• Socrates' "know thyself" as a call to recognize ignorance and pursue wisdom through self-reflection.
• Suffering as the catalyst for growth—why normalizing pain keeps us stuck, and how sharing vulnerabilities accelerates self-discovery.
• The dangers of idolizing celebrities and athletes: tying emotions to uncontrollable externals leads to powerlessness.
• Mentors vs. idols—why true guidance requires active participation, not passive following.
• Genetics and free will: two-thirds of our traits may be innate, but the remaining third allows for meaningful change through effort.
• Building mental stamina: share your "stupidity" publicly to bridge cognitive gaps and liberate yourself.
• The unexamined life isn't worth living—empower yourself by questioning everything.

Most Insightful Moment: Toliy captures the essence of transformation: "You have to invest into yourself versus continuing to wait for something to happen. 'cause like nothing is gonna happen. No portals are going to magically open until you actually put a concentrated effort to change it yourself." This raw call to action reminds us that true change starts with personal accountability.

Ready to examine your own life? Subscribe now for weekly dives into philosophy, self-improvement, and real-talk discussions that challenge the status quo. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help us reach more seekers—your feedback fuels the conversation! Follow us on X @DennisRoxPod for episode clips and join the community. What does "know thyself" mean to you? Share in the comments below.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - we can even dissect it on our next episode. Submit your story using this form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 0:43 The Importance of Self-Knowledge
• 7:51 Challenges in Self-Examination
• 32:19 Celebrity Worship and Emotional Investment
• 42:25 Mentors vs. Idols: A Critical Distinction
• 1:14:16 The Importance of Suffering Consciously
• 1:23:02 The Difference Between Ignorance and Arrogance
• 1:44:47 Building Mental Stamina
• 2:01:58 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, though, that's what Socrates is talking about when he is talking about know thyself, is to really find out what do you align with who you really are? Why do you react the way you do? Challenge yourself, uh, to really find out who 

[00:00:12] Toliy: you are. Like you have to invest into yourself versus continuing to wait for something to happen.

[00:00:17] 'cause like nothing is gonna happen. No portal's gonna open until you actually put a concentrated effort to change it yourself. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: So suffering is always the fucking prescription. Suffer more. You go to the doctor, this hurts, that hurts, this hurts, that hurts. You know, here's the pills. That's the easier way out.

[00:00:33] I do this because I'm in pain. So just relieve this pain right here for me.

[00:00:43] All right guys, this week we're gonna discuss, it's a very popular quote or a very popular, uh, attempt, uh, by Socrates, you know, to tell us to know thyself, right? And, uh, you know, our audience, our listeners ask the question, what's the meaning of to know thyself and why is it so important to know? Okay? And then following up with the question of what, uh, what drives us to make decisions that we make?

[00:01:17] I think that's closely tied to the first question or the first statement. Know thyself, right? Obviously we know who said this. This is a famous, um, saying know thyself. Thyself by Socrates, right? Who was very big on this. All right? So for Socrates to know thyself meant recognizing your own ignorance limitations and the true nature through constant self-examination, right?

[00:01:45] Which is the foundation for achieving wisdom and virtue, right? 'cause Socrates obviously put a lot of emphasis on wisdom or virtue. You know, it's the most important things. This Socratic philosophy is the call for inner reflection, leading to a better understanding of your values, your desires, beliefs, and ultimately enabling a more morally good and fulfilling life.

[00:02:08] He famously stated, the unexamined life is not worth living, is not worth living, right? So linking self knowledge directly to a life of purpose, right? And then obviously, it starts with knowing yourself. Hold on one second. Yes, baby. So that's, that's what that, that's what least Socrates meant, right? It's to, to know yourself is to, you know, recognize your own ignorance, your own limitations, and the, and true nature through constant self-examination, right?

[00:02:40] Try to understand the world, try to understand yourself. Try to understand the world, I guess, your relationship with the world, who you are, why you are, why the world, the way it is, right? Um, and really find out what, what, what's going on. You know? And he, you know, challenged us to do this by asking questions.

[00:02:58] Right. In order to derive something that we can concretely know, so then we can become wise. Right. Achieving wisdom and virtue. Right. Um, this Socratic philosophy is called the inner reflection, leading to a better understanding of your values, desires, beliefs, ultimately enabling a more morally good and fulfilling life.

[00:03:16] Yeah. So he ultimately saying that, look, you know, in order to live a good life, right? Obviously a good life is probably a happy life, right? Uh, you need to know yourself, but in order to know yourself, you have to examine a lot, lots of yourself, you know, uh, I think in that process alone, you probably find out, you know, um, what you like, what you don't like, what you are okay with, what you're not okay with, you know, and ultimately helps you kind of navigate this thing called life in such a way where it is, it is more pleasant and less painful, you know?

[00:03:53] So, yeah. So what do you guys think when it comes to knowing yourself? Uh, or at least you know, the relationship to that statement in our podcast too, like how we are trying to actually, you know, figure this whole thing out and ways to better ourselves? I mean, 

[00:04:08] Mike: when, when you said it, it was like a funny story that came to my mind.

[00:04:11] Mm-hmm. Like, obviously it's not very philosophical, but I guess it is in a way. Mm-hmm. Is when. When you guys call me out, like, uh, for, for like the custom sandwich guy. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, uh, and the points guy, and I think obviously that's like a, or give, give the audience a little bit of a Yeah. A backstory on 

[00:04:29] Eldar: that.

[00:04:30] Mike: Um, when I go to restaurants, Uhhuh, I usually like to do custom things. Yes. But I usually develop relationships with people, uhhuh that work at these restaurants or own these restaurants, and I get special treatment. How do you develop these relationships? 

[00:04:44] Toliy: Now? Question. Do you, do you, do you like, think that like, because Mike knows internally that he, he's the custom guy, Uhhuh, that he, he knows that he needs to develop these re these like relationships to get the custom things that like he wants.

[00:04:57] Because you can't be a custom person without knowing, like, people, right? 

[00:05:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:03] Toliy: Like, and then if, if you're a custom person, then you're gonna stand out amongst o others as well, right? 

[00:05:08] Eldar: This is true. Yeah. For sure. Sure. So like, do you 

[00:05:09] Toliy: think that he goes with a personal relationship because he's like, Hey, if I get the personal relationship, then I get custom things, 

[00:05:14] Mike: maybe.

[00:05:15] Oh, you have to ask him. He's right there. Yeah. I'm, I'm not sure. I mean, um, I just socialize with people a lot and I always like, you know, strike up conversations and like, you know, in the places, you know, so especially 

[00:05:27] Toliy: delis, 

[00:05:28] Mike: especially places where they serve food. So especially sandwiches. Sandwiches, yeah.

[00:05:32] Okay. Yeah. So, um. You guys. Uh, so the story is I ordered this custom sandwich. Mm-hmm. You know, many, many times. Many, many times in front of us. In front of you guys. Mm-hmm. Yes. And, uh, one time, the, the guy he brought over the sandwich, the owner who knows me obviously Yeah. And he is like, who ordered this crazy sandwich?

[00:05:56] Or something like that. And it was very funny. Yeah. Uh, you guys afterwards, like, we were making a thing out of it, like kind of like, you know, trolling me. Yeah. Like, Mike's the custom sandwich guy. And I was like, no, no, no. This is not me, man. I don't like, I don't want to be that guy. Yes. I didn't want to take ownership of it.

[00:06:11] Yeah. I didn't, I didn't feel like it was a good thing to be called a sandwich guy or like a custom sandwich guy. Yeah. Because I thought it was like, you know, making me a complicated customer or like annoying customer or something, you know? 

[00:06:20] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:06:21] Mike: So that was the backdrop of the story and that, and when you said know yourself, that was like a small example of not knowing myself and not being like, okay with like, kind of who I am and making a big deal out of it.

[00:06:32] Eldar: Yeah. I mean, in that, in that example, I think a very good example because on one hand you have like, hey, like, I'd like a, I'd like a nice sandwich. And clearly you know how to make them in such a way where you like them. Yes. And you know what I mean? Of course. Which is like, this is your pleasure, pleasure, you know, area and you like it.

[00:06:46] Mm-hmm. And but then on the other hand, you're like, I don't want to be known as that guy that does this. Yeah. So you have cognitive dissonance. Yeah. And I think Socrates, if he was alive or sitting here, he would tell you that. Like, like, Hey, look man, like you can't have two, two of the, of the things, you know, like, yeah, you're gonna have pain because of that.

[00:07:03] Mm-hmm. You know? So, yeah. So ultimately. You kind of what? Succumb to the, 

[00:07:08] Mike: to the identity, to the title? To the title I, I, uh, accepted the title after some, you know Yeah. Uh, battle back and forth. Yeah. But I think I accepted about myself that hey, like I know what I like, I like what I like. Yeah. And I order, and I'm gonna do what I like.

[00:07:23] And it's nothing wrong with that, you know? Yeah, yeah. 

[00:07:25] Eldar: Until somebody tells me otherwise. Like, well, unless it's not serving you, if it's actually not good for you. Right. Yeah. Or you're really becoming a, a, a pain in the ass customer. Yeah. And like, you're getting flacked from all these owners or whatever, all other people.

[00:07:36] And you said 

[00:07:36] Toliy: the, the owner's hands almost fell off when he was ma making, right? Oh, 

[00:07:40] Eldar: is 

[00:07:40] Toliy: that big? Yeah. No, just, just it was that like crazy that like to make, he, he, yeah. Like, 

[00:07:46] Mike: yeah. No, it was a good sandwich, man. Yeah. The recipes on the Patreon. Yes. 

[00:07:51] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like, um, like that, that like, um, quote is like a, uh, like.

[00:07:58] If you tell someone to go figure this out, I think they have no chance to figure, figure what out. 

[00:08:03] Mike: But I also, I also think it's like, what does it mean to know that self? I think we have to like, uh, give a little bit simpler. I think you gave this very simple thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I 

[00:08:10] Eldar: think, like, who are you?

[00:08:12] Right? Yeah. As a person, what is it that you like? What is it that you don't like? You don't like? Yeah. Why your bad habits? Why do you like this? Why you don't like this? Right? Mm-hmm. If you have a close mind to something, right? Yeah. Say, Hey Mike, I want to go try out a new restaurant. They serve frog legs.

[00:08:26] You're like, no. Mm-hmm. Like why? Yeah. Why do you have that reaction to that specific thing? Mm-hmm. For example, because you only eat sandwiches and you identify yourself as a sandwich guy, but you never know. Maybe frog legs are very good and very tasty. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, 'cause you never tried it doesn't mean that they're not gonna be good.

[00:08:41] Mm-hmm. You know? So like, I think that that's a very good example as to like, just a small example as to like, mm-hmm. Okay. Why do we do what we do? Right? And then do we identify ourselves as that? And if not, why not? And if we shy away from those identities, why? Mm-hmm. Right? Why do we have to be embarrassed about it?

[00:08:59] Right. Because as soon as you bridge the gap between who you are. What you do, and you okay with that, right? I think do you liberate yourself to some degree where you are, um, probably earning confidence points in yourself 

[00:09:14] mm-hmm. 

[00:09:15] Where you stand tall and say, yeah, I can make a custom sandwich. What's the problem?

[00:09:18] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, I can help you out with yours if you want. This goes well with this. Bacon goes well with that. Mm-hmm. You know, yada yada, yada. Uh, I don't see anything wrong with that. I think it actually benefits you Yeah. In the long run, if you take ownership of it. 

[00:09:30] Mike: If you take ownership.

[00:09:31] Yeah. But the stance of not taking ownership as I was, I guess Yeah. Like you said, the cognitive dissonance. Yeah. It doesn't serve you. Yeah. It's like, uh, you're not here nor there. 

[00:09:40] Eldar: Yeah. So I think a lot of times we act this way where we have these little quirks that we have about us, like we do this or that, but we almost don't want the world to find out, you know?

[00:09:52] Uh, because we think that the world might think it's weird. We might think that world will judge us. Yeah. Right. For doing this or the third or that, whatever, you know? And, um, why? 

[00:10:05] Mike: Right. Why do we think that? Well, because I think part of it is that we haven't accepted ourselves for our strengths or our weaknesses too.

[00:10:15] That's right. You know? Yeah. You know, like the, like the fire starting thing that I had on the camping trip. Yes. You know, when I was trying to hide. Yeah. Did I tell you the story? No. Uhhuh. Um, I went camping like, you know, a couple weeks ago and. I woke up early, everybody's still sleeping, and you know, it's, I wanted to get the fire going, right?

[00:10:37] Toliy: Oh, yes, you did. 

[00:10:38] Mike: I think so. I did. Yeah. Yeah. So, so say it's a good story. Yeah. So I wanted to get the fire going and, um, not in your pants, I wish, but there was no, uh, females around to do that. Yeah. Um, so I wanted to get the fire going and, um, everybody was sleeping. So I started marking around, you know, got some little branches, some leaves, things that starts quick and then started building the base around it.

[00:11:00] But I'm not good at starting fires. Generally. I could do it, but I don't feel like I'm confident in it. And like it's something that I do want to get better at, because sometimes we need to start a fire, you know, and it's like, I guess it's something I'd like to learn how to do for my own self. And, um, when I came to the camping trip, they told me to bring a bottle of lighter fluid, right.

[00:11:22] They wanted to use just in case if they need it. So I bought the bottle of the fluid and it was standing by the camp site right there, easy access, right. And I was gonna pick it. Uh, I was starting the fire and it was taking me about 40 minutes. It started going, then it started to die down. So maybe I was getting a little nervous.

[00:11:39] Then I was like thinking, okay, this is not working out so well. I was like, kind of ready to give up, you know? And then I kind of did it for a little bit longer, maybe took an hour, and it wasn't like going to the place I wanted to go, you know, to be like a good, sustainable fire. And I am like, all right, well I gotta, if I'm gonna hit this lighter fluid.

[00:12:00] I gotta do while, while nobody's looking, you know, because I don't want to get caught. So I kind of like, you know, I, I said, fuck it, I can't do this. I reach for the lighter fluid and as I reach for the lighter fluid, I hear some rustling in the tent. So I quickly put it down. I'm like, oh, shit, I can, can't get caught, caught lacking over here, you know?

[00:12:17] Yeah. And, uh, I felt like an idiot, you know? I was like, this is very funny. Like the, my own, you know, self-analysis of myself, of what's happening. 

[00:12:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:26] Mike: You know, like not believing myself and like wanting to then, I'm not gonna call it cheat, but cheat from what I originally wanted to set out to do. You know, like give up maybe.

[00:12:35] I don't know if it was premature or not, but mm-hmm. Probably. I mean, it definitely was because I did get the fire started without it, but I then started to laugh at my own self about caring that if somebody would see me use the lighter fluid, you know, as the noise was coming outta the tent, they would judge me as like, Hey, I can't start a fire.

[00:12:54] And then they would know that I can't start a fire without, even though 

[00:12:57] Eldar: you were talking shit before, right? You said you were talking shit. It's like, oh, we're not gonna start a fire with a lighter fluid. You didn't wanna do that. 

[00:13:03] Mike: Yeah. I was talking shit to them like, yo, we don't need this. We could just do it.

[00:13:06] We could just do it ourselves. Yeah. You know? So then I was like, yo, I'm gonna look like a s slug, you know? Yeah. So I, um, I almost cheated. I didn't Yeah. 'cause I heard the rustling and I put it down and I started the fire. But afterwards, like, um, it made me think again, like, um, who cares if I get caught?

[00:13:23] Yeah. Like, that's what it's for. Yeah. You know, but I mean. But I, I mean, I wanted to persevere and I did like get it going. Mm-hmm. So I'm happy I did that, but it was funny. I'm not happy that I initially reacted of like 

[00:13:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:36] Mike: Scared what somebody might think. Mm-hmm. You know, like I valued their opinion of my abilities to start or not start a fire.

[00:13:43] But it's also, you ca 

[00:13:43] Eldar: you didn't want in that, in that, in that moment you just didn't want to eat your own words. Right. 'cause you said what you said. Mm-hmm. Right. But then here you are trying to take the easy road Yeah. Right. And start the fire with that. Yeah. So it's almost like, yeah, you had to persevere in that moment, right?

[00:13:57] Yeah. 'cause you were talking shit. Mm-hmm. Or you had to apologize and surrender. Yeah. You know what I mean? I didn't wanna do that either. Yeah. So you didn't wanna do that either. Yeah. Yeah. So there was again, a cognitive dissonance almost, you know, where it's like, okay, you took a shit on one hand, but then like, you're not, you're not living up to the expectations, your own expectations.

[00:14:12] Yes. So, yeah. And again, then Yeah, that provides you with what, like cognitive dissonance or, um, some mental pain. Yeah. You know, and I, like I said, I think that someone who doesn't really know themselves, I think that they, uh, they constantly are going up against, uh, the world's view of themselves. Like, what would the world think of me?

[00:14:31] Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, what would they say if they catch me? You know, like, yeah. Um, because you not really are sure of who you are. Right. And I think that that's what Socrates is talking about when he is talking about know thyself, right? Mm-hmm. Is to really find out what do you align with who you really are, question the things.

[00:14:49] Right. Why do you react the way you do challenge yourself 

[00:14:53] mm-hmm. 

[00:14:53] Uh, to really find out who you are. 

[00:14:55] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like. A lot of these like things of like, you know, to go on this path, it's like, um, the words you're saying are relatively like simple, like, right, like, know yourself, challenge yourself, figure out who you are, what you like or don't like.

[00:15:14] Mm-hmm. But for example, your standard as to what like you think that means or that like, you know, equates to, or like what kind of processes required to do that is going to be very far from, I would say where 99.9% of people would, would be if they were tasked to, uh, to do that. 

[00:15:36] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:15:36] Toliy: You know, so to me I feel like it's very difficult to go do like to, to go do that unless they have someone else that's like, um, challenging them and asking them questions based on like their experience and what they know is important to start challenging and to start like, paying attention to.

[00:15:59] I feel like they would be, um, especially in the, the early to like mid stages of, of that process, they would be way more effective in helping you, uh, figure out who you are than you would be figuring out who you are. Because I don't like, I don't think that you would have a, um, like that, that person who would be doing it, they wouldn't have like a, uh, in depth enough process.

[00:16:25] To, uh, to extract that from, from themselves like that, that would be like a very high-end advanced skill to be able to know how to do that. 

[00:16:34] Eldar: But nonetheless, you could still go on a journey of trying to find out well, right. Like, you could try to read books, you can try to ask questions, you can lead yourself to be finding a good mentor.

[00:16:44] For sure. That's obviously important, I think. Um, but not everyone kind of go, I think goes that route. 

[00:16:50] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like if you don't have somebody to share your ignorances with, then I just feel like you're, you're more likely to build on those ignorances than to, 

[00:17:00] Mike: to work on. But when you, when you behave this way, right, this cognitive dissonance, right.

[00:17:04] Like a mm-hmm. Way, I guess cognitive dissonance in action, there's suffering there. No. Yeah. 

[00:17:11] Toliy: Um, well, there could be suffering there, but it doesn't mean that you have the ability to to, to link it. Right. Because like 

[00:17:17] Mike: Yeah. But everyone, it doesn't mean that you don't either. Like, I'm not saying that you're gonna bat, bat 'em all, but people still feel suffering and they, I mean, feel suffering.

[00:17:26] Is that what it is? Yeah. They suffer. Yeah, they suffer. You know, so, but I don't think 

[00:17:29] Toliy: that like, um, having the ability to feel suffering, which like ev everyone does 

[00:17:36] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:17:37] Toliy: Is correlated to like, you know, finding out who you are and finding out like the, uh, the, uh, truth because, um, to find the link of, of, of what the suffering is from is significantly harder than the, the, uh, the act of suffering itself.

[00:17:53] Or 

[00:17:54] Mike: what about like, uh, the act of suffering, but also recognizing that you're suffering? That's like the first step, right? 

[00:18:01] Toliy: Well, the, the thing is that I think it's, it, it's, it's way more normalized to, um, like you could recognize that you're suffer suffering, but I think that more people, that, more, more people than not, um, I, I, I, I think at least will go about, um, normalizing that suffering and thinking that like, this is how it is, this is how it's supposed to be.

[00:18:23] Mm-hmm. So they'll never go on like a journey of like figuring out like, why or how, or like, I, like, I think that, that, that would be like a, a very, very, very small percentage of people 

[00:18:36] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:18:37] Toliy: Um, who do that with, with, which is why I think that like cu humans are social creatures and they were meant to be that way.

[00:18:46] Mm-hmm. And I feel like they were meant to share their ignorances, that they get an opportunity to find out about them. And then from there they have more of a choice, I think to like, if, if properly cha like a challenge with like a persistent amount of times, right. Like with, with persistence. Mm-hmm. Then they have the opportunity to start to ask questions, start to like understand that there might be a different way start to, um, recognize some of their pains and their sufferings because they're getting pointed out.

[00:19:19] Or like, um. Yeah. Like to, to, to, to me, it's very difficult to go tell someone to do something when like, they have no clue as to like what it takes or what steps there are to like, to, to figure out what, what they need to do. Mm-hmm. Especially on things about themselves, because, um, it's way more harder to figure out your own problems or solve your own things than it is to obviously like maybe understand someone else or like look at it from a non-biased way.

[00:19:51] Like you have a permanent bias way. So it's almost like, I feel like you're set up for failure because of your own, like you're trying to solve your own problems, but you also have biases and like particular views going into it. So how are you going to jump over like your, your biases, your ignorance to figure out the truth on your own?

[00:20:17] Like almost, you know? 

[00:20:18] Eldar: Yeah, no, I, I agree. I agree with this. Yeah. I mean, 

[00:20:20] Toliy: like, like the chips are like completely stacked against you. I agree. Yeah, I agree. It's definitely 

[00:20:24] Eldar: hard, harder than, well, that's why I don't think that the majority of population is philosophers. 

[00:20:29] Mike: Yeah. And nor is it like, huh? Nor is it supposed to be.

[00:20:33] Uh, I'm not sure yet about 

[00:20:34] Eldar: that one. That's a, that's a hard question. 

[00:20:36] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Al also like, um, I feel like you are, you are suffering and your pains and your ignorances, um, I think they come to life. Way more when someone else finds out about them or that they're bounced, like against some, of course someone else, right?

[00:20:59] Mm-hmm. Like if you just think how you think and you're on your own island, you're in your own world. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like, well, you don't let nothing in, like, you just kind of like, like are in your own space. Mm-hmm. It's very hard to, you know, even know like where you're at or I agree. How you align or mm-hmm.

[00:21:21] Do you have it completely off? Like Sure. Um, like if, if, if there, if there's a person on the I island and, um, like he only thinks that you can walk around the whole island, like only in, in like a circular way around the outer edge of the island to get anywhere. Imagine like he, he thinks this. Mm-hmm. Like this is his view.

[00:21:40] Yeah. So like, if he needs food, he needs to walk like, let's just say five miles around in like a circular way. Mm-hmm. Around only the edge of the island. He has no clue that you can just walk through it, for example. Mm-hmm. And it's actually like a one mile walk instead of a five mile walk. 

[00:21:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:55] Toliy: If you're on that island by yourself, um, I think you're way less likely to test out another theory or to like, to, to, to do any of that.

[00:22:04] You're just gonna walk around the whole time because like, that's your world and that's what you know, and you going against what you know, I think is. Highly unlikely if you are convinced that this is the way that it is. 

[00:22:15] Eldar: Hmm. Yeah. No, I, I hear what he's saying. I think what he's saying, Mike, ultimately, is that, uh, you might be able to get somewhere at a very, very slow pace.

[00:22:24] Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:24] Right? Versus if you did have somebody who's a mentor or whatever, who you could balance off of, you could definitely get a little bit more progress faster. 

[00:22:33] Yeah, 

[00:22:33] I agree. Especially if that individual that you are bouncing yourself off of has a little bit of wisdom. 

[00:22:38] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:38] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[00:22:39] Lives a, an examined life. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, for sure. Like that. That's also why that, 

[00:22:43] Toliy: like, if, if you're driving and you take a wrong turn somewhere, they put up signs, like wrong, wrong way, for example. Right. They, they give you like warnings. 

[00:22:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:51] Toliy: But if you're on your own and you make a decision, or you make a choice and you go down the wrong way.

[00:22:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:58] Toliy: How do you get out of that? Like, like, it's like if, if, but if there's someone there that like to bounce that off of Yeah. 

[00:23:04] Eldar: Pointing the direction you, you can 

[00:23:05] Toliy: get redirected. 

[00:23:06] Eldar: Yeah. But nonetheless, right. We have plenty of people who are maybe ignorant around our, you know, around us who are very ignorant and, and their lives are maybe in turmo turmoil, right?

[00:23:18] Struggling. Um, and maybe they're not asking these questions all the time, but over time their pain and suffering, right. And their wrong perceptions around the world accumulates enough. For them to start saying, I need help. Mm-hmm. Somebody they start streaming. Yeah. Right. They'll like, they get on top of the building, like, guys, I need help.

[00:23:36] I, they start complaining to us. 

[00:23:38] Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:38] Right. They start saying things. Right. Yeah. Like, I had enough. Right. And I think that's when you finally get to the point of like, maybe some, maybe those cries are gonna fall onto not deaf ears. Mm-hmm. Hopefully, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you get a little bit of guidance.

[00:23:52] Yeah. That, you know, and that's the social aspect that he's talking about. Mm-hmm. That I think that because we're social creatures, we have that ability where it's like, I think we talked about this on the walkway. I said, sure. Like, you know, maybe like 10 people will agree with you about, you know, well my cousin said about the NBA, for example.

[00:24:06] Mm-hmm. Right. Where he esteems LeBron James. Right. And he has friends who also like NBA, but then he comes across us, for example, and says like, how do you feel about LeBron James? You know, like, or whatever. And I'm like, who the fuck is he? I don't give a fuck about him. Mm-hmm. Like, he's not important to me.

[00:24:22] He's not paying my rent. He don't care about me. Why should I care about him or pay for his rent? Why should I buy his jersey? Why should I promote him? Mm-hmm. Like, who the fuck is he? Yeah. You know what I mean? So sooner or later, I think that, you know, despite all the ignorance that we do have, we come across people that challenge our own worldviews.

[00:24:38] Mm-hmm. And like Socrates said, right, if you stumbled upon something, right, the truth, if you came across something, don't just pick yourself up like nothing happened. You know, slow down a little bit, see what you got. Because you might be onto something, you know, this is what he encourages to do. Right?

[00:24:56] Because you might be onto some truth. Right. And in the case of the LeBron James, uh, argument, right where he, my cousin said, um, oh, look at this girl on OnlyFans. She's making more money than LeBron James this year. You know, like mm-hmm. Uh, when he showed it to me, I'm like, I mean, great. Good for her. Like, what's the problem here?

[00:25:15] You know? Yeah. People clearly are voting right. Saying that, I wanna see her ass. I'm gonna pay this money Good for her. She's, this is the way she's making the money, right? Mm-hmm. She's like, Paul, LeBron James put in, puts in all this work, and like, you know, he's so important, you know, I'm like, what? How?

[00:25:31] Mm-hmm. He takes a, an object happens to be rubber, which bounces and puts it in a metal ring over and over again. He happens to be big enough too, for it to be easy for him. Yeah. Instead of a person who's five feet, right? Mm-hmm. Who's much smaller, like Harris for example, who can't do the same thing.

[00:25:50] LeBron James is gifted because he has a, you know, a complexity of his body happens to be the way it is. Therefore, he can make it an easier attempt to make that damn Yeah. Transaction, you know? Mm-hmm. Taking a, a rubber object and putting into a metal ring, and he likes doing it. Yep. What's so important about this w.

[00:26:11] Tell me. Yeah. I don't, what is so important about this? There's people out there, right? Mm-hmm. The public us who said, we like this phenomenon. Mm-hmm. We like how this ball bounces. We like how this ball goes from far away and comes into this little thing. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? This is like a cool phenomenon, you know what I mean?

[00:26:29] We vote without dollars, without attention with all this stuff, and therefore LeBron James has a salary that he does. Yep. You know what I mean? But there's also a different crowd who likes to look at ass, who likes to get horny or relieve themselves. 

[00:26:44] Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:45] And they're like, I wanna pay $5 to subscribe to her.

[00:26:47] Ands wrong with that. Yeah. She's also talented in whatever it is she's showing, you know? Yeah. She, maybe she have the curves, maybe she works out or whatever, you know, maybe she talks softly or sexual, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, that's her, that's her gig. Yeah. And we as audience, we either vote or we don't vote.

[00:27:03] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? But to say one does something more than the other. Right. It is. It's not to really examine it or to see things for what they are. And I think that, you know, at least for my cousin, right, he's lucky enough to have us who can challenge his views and beliefs about the world, as Socrates said, you know, examine the world, find out what's the truth of what's not the truth, in order to then have a proper reaction instead of saying like, oh man, I feel so bad for LeBron.

[00:27:32] Like, what? Mm-hmm. You're gonna ex, you're gonna expand and give away your emotion, your feeling to who? You know, like, how does, yeah. Like what is this? You know, you're gonna give a piece of yourself to a person you've never met who never met you. He doesn't even know you exist. You know, he exists. He probably knows that, you know that he exists.

[00:27:55] Yeah. But you don't know you exist. None of that matters. Right. But we over here expanding ourselves, giving ourselves away, hurting, crying. Some people cry, right? Yeah. Over, over their teams losing. 

[00:28:07] Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:07] Right? Saying, oh, he's injured. Oh man, what are we gonna do? Like, that's an emotional ex expenditure, like mm-hmm.

[00:28:14] Expense. Why? That's, you know, like, you actually having pain from this. Well, I guess in their 

[00:28:21] Mike: case you could say they, they know themselves. Right. In the sense of what, but that's the capacity to know themselves. That they, they like basketball and this is very dear to them, or whatever it is that they're, 

[00:28:31] Eldar: well, the thing is, they have no control.

[00:28:33] And I think that Socrates advised, at least in the saying, when he said, no, thyself, he wants to have control over these things. Yeah. Right? Yeah. If I'm a, if I'm a, a fan of a team, and if my favorite basketball player on that team breaks his leg and he can't play, I'm emotionally invested here. Yep. You know, I have no control over that.

[00:28:54] You know, maybe he fucked around. He was skateboarding. Well, he shouldn't have been skateboarding or eating the wrong diet. Right. I had no say in that. He's my favorite. But you are like, I can't control this guy. I can't tell, I can't tell. I'm like, yo, bro, stop skateboarding. Stop bike riding. Stop doing these reckless stunts that you're doing.

[00:29:10] You're gonna break your leg. Mm-hmm. You know, I don't have no say in that. I'm powerless. Yeah. I don't think Socrates was okay with being powerless. I think Socrates is advising us to know ourselves so then we can have control of our emotions, our feelings, and the things that we put out there. And he wants us to have it, uh, on a voluntarily basis, not an involuntary basis.

[00:29:33] Mm-hmm. Meaning if I'm gonna have an emotional outburst or whatever I made a choice to do, so it wasn't just hit me from behind, you know, from out of nowhere where it's like, oh, look at this. Oh, look at that. Fuck. You know, so unlucky. And then the world becomes so unlucky, you know, that this is not working out for me.

[00:29:49] That's not working out well because you put all your chips into the world that is unpredictable. 

[00:29:55] Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:55] And it's gonna happen to you versus you happening to the world, you know? So I think soccer is completely against things like sports, for example, or being into, you know, uh, so invested and things that are not actually serving you.

[00:30:09] He was against something like the arts too, right? He was against like, um, well, yeah. He was against everything that, um, that mimicked truth. Yeah. Not an actual truth, but what mimicked it, right? Yeah. Or it was illusions. Yeah. It was, you know, not an actual thing. Yeah, yeah. Right. So it was definitely, you know, because it's, it's leading us astray, and as you can see, it leads these types of things, leads young men astray.

[00:30:34] They don't know how to interpret the world. They don't know how to interpret themselves. And then they develop this unhealthy relationship, uh, with all of these things. And ultimately what happens is that they become unhappy and they don't live a good life. 

[00:30:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:51] Eldar: They're not 

[00:30:51] Toliy: empowered. Well, yeah. And I, I, I feel like they're also, oh, here we go.

[00:30:57] Dre: What? That You guys have a new setup over here? 

[00:31:01] Eldar: Yeah. All right, Dre. Well welcome. You can bring that over closer to you. Yep. Right there. You, you know the format. You know, we just talking philosophy, talking shop right now. Um, to bring you up to speed, we're talking about the famous quote that Socr said. Um, well, two things.

[00:31:21] He said he encouraged us to know thyself. Right? He also encouraged us to, um, he encouraged and said that, uh, unexamined life is not worth living, right? So we're trying to get into that whole, whole mess. Why is that? Why did he say that? What did he mean by it? Right. And to, to kind of roll off of what he said directly, or I'm gonna read this.

[00:31:47] So for Socrates to know, thyself me, uh, meant recognizing your own ignorance, your limitations, and the true nature through con constant self-examination, which is the foundation for achieving wisdom and virtue. This Socratic philosophy is a call for inner reflection leading to a better understanding of your values, your desires, and the beliefs ultimately enabling a more morally good and fulfilling life.

[00:32:10] He famously said, the unexamined life is not worth living, linking self knowledge directly to a life of purpose. So we're just going into the fact that a lot of times we, the way we interact with the world or, you know, the external world, especially like maybe we were referencing sports LeBron James and how we sometimes worship these individuals, these athletes that have nothing to do with our lives, right?

[00:32:35] But we worship them like they're gods, they're our idols and stuff. We cry when they get hurt. You know, when they have misfortunes, we're like, oh, we're so disappointed in this and that, you know? Um, and we're challenges to say, why, you know, why do we have such a relationship with people of celebrity status?

[00:32:55] Why do we put so many chips into their hands? You know? Um, why is our emotional state closely tied to, uh, individuals that we have no control over? Right. If they misbehave, if they do something, we are affected. Why? You know? So that's part of where we're trying to examine that, you know, uh, what is our relationship with the world?

[00:33:21] How should it be? Uh, what base should, should, should be, you know, that relationship with, you know, of, you know? And, uh, the more we examine it, the more we find out that the masses, at least, right, are all, you know, kind of maybe, uh, ignorant, you know, suffering from these things, from, from the, the things that masses are suffering from and don't have control over their lives.

[00:33:48] They can't say or can't do things that are gonna actually make them happy, you know, or live a good life like Socr said. So we're trying to, also, our audience asked this question that they wanted us to examine as to why do we do what we do? You know? Um, 'cause you know, some people are slowly maybe waking up or asking these questions.

[00:34:08] And I think that's a very important question. It's a evergreen question that I think we as humans suffering from the different human conditions that we do suffer from or trying to have answers to. So feel free to chime in, but that's what we're talking about. 

[00:34:25] Dre: So how do you actually, how do you think that the worrying about, like celebrities or athletes, do you put that as a strong tie in to know thyself?

[00:34:38] Eldar: Well, I'm putting it where like if we have emotional reactions right? To like, you know, celebrities and stuff like that where we worship them. Mm-hmm. You know, where we go through the ups and downs in emotional states. Like if our team lost, like, oh fuck man, you know, we can't catch a break. You know, we have all these reasons as to like why we feel the way we do.

[00:34:54] You know, I feel like, yeah, that's an unexamined life. Why would I expand or give my emotion Right. To something that I have zero control over, right? Yes. I, I don't have no say in, in recruiting new players. I have no say in the equipment that they use or the, the coaches that they hire. Like, I have no say in that.

[00:35:14] But when they lose, I have a say and I've given my emotional say into the world and to, to other people why, right? Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So I think that if I'm gonna suffer, right, like from something I, I'd like to have a say in it. And I think Socrates urged us to be able to have control over our own lives, right?

[00:35:35] But things like celebrities, they're external factors. They're external things that we can't control. So if we are worshiping them right, and we have emotional ties to whatever it is going on out there, yeah. We don't know ourselves actually. 

[00:35:52] Correct. 

[00:35:54] Dre: And I think thank you. People eventually I think do realize that, uh, and, and, and when they grow up and some, some never do well.

[00:36:03] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:06] Dre: I think it come, yeah. It comes from, uh, tribalism. 

[00:36:09] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:09] Dre: Uh, my cynical answer is that people, their life is not exciting in the tribal sense that they belong to certain groups that they feel like they're proud of. Mm-hmm. This, so it's like, well, these guys are maybe more athletic than me or more whatever.

[00:36:24] And, uh, I, I feel that I'm gonna be kind of in my own way friends with them, even though they don't even know you exist. You know? Yeah. But then it's a tribal thing, like, oh, you know, something bad people doing it. Yeah. And I think the, the, uh, you can even by most people would say, you can be insignificant in the sense that no one knows you and you can be, uh, live a very examined life and be, have an extremely meaningful life.

[00:36:51] Yeah. If you play, play it the right way. Correct. So, uh, but I think that's, yeah. Uh, eventually that does get realized hopefully sooner than later. Well, totally, 

[00:37:06] Eldar: actually, in the, as of a pessimistic view, he says that if you don't have a mentor, if you don't have an individual who's kind of challenging you left and right, you're gonna have to go through a lot of suffering throughout your life in order to finally come to that conclusion like, oh, shit, I think I got this wrong.

[00:37:21] I think I gotta stop fucking obsessing over Taylor Swift or fucking LeBron James. You know, like, who are they? You 

[00:37:28] Toliy: know? Yeah. Like, it, it, it would be equivalent to like, if someone's, for example, like a, uh. Um, I don't know, like you, you tell someone like, Hey, um, I'm not gonna give you any literature, any courses, um, but I want you to figure out how to be a heart surgeon, but you're not allowed any resources or like, you have to just like, figure it out 

[00:37:52] Eldar: on your own.

[00:37:53] Toliy: You know? So like lots, uh, uh, obviously it doesn't happen. It happens from like, you know, a pioneer or like a bunch of people, you know, along the way who create like this, like, you know, these courses, literature, these are the steps. Like, you follow something, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so that you end up in a particular place.

[00:38:10] Like it's a formula. Yeah. Right? But I feel like oftentimes 

[00:38:14] Eldar: we're reinventing the wheel when it comes to our suffering. Yeah. 

[00:38:17] Toliy: You're with, with your own self. It's very difficult because like, you're, you're not like a, uh, inanimate object. Mm-hmm. And you're, you have biases. So for you to examine your own habits, your own life, like your own re reasoning, I feel like it's very difficult.

[00:38:34] And, um, one thing I wanted to add, add, add, add. Before we, we were talking about like the, the, uh, ignorance and, and, um, and stuff is I feel like ignorant behavior is meant, like, I think the way that it was created was that it was meant to be on its own. Mm. Right? Like it was meant to be, like, it was not meant to be like shared.

[00:38:57] Because when it's shared and it's met with non ignorant, like thinking for example, right. It gets quickly, like, you know, like recognized and when ignorant behavior gets recognized, like that's like the worst thing. 

[00:39:10] Eldar: But not in the cases of tribalism. Well, I think well, totally, but 

[00:39:13] Toliy: but they, but they're not like, um, like they're, they, they, they could be ignorant together.

[00:39:19] There could be, yeah. There could be ignorant behavior. Those people 

[00:39:20] Mike: who are crying over the LeBron James, not crying by themselves. 

[00:39:23] Toliy: Well, yes, but there's million. The masses are crying. So, so there's one thing that, that like trumps the ignorant behavior, is that, like, that, that's why I wanted to bring up, like, for example, Andrew Tate.

[00:39:33] Mm-hmm. Right. I is that like, there could be the ignorant behavior. It does not, um, like it, it does everything. It, um, it can to create a shell arou like out, um, around itself to not allow thinking to happen. 

[00:39:47] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:39:48] Toliy: So when you have, for example, someone that, like a lot of masses of people, um, say as like, important, like for example, someone like LeBron James mm-hmm.

[00:39:58] For example, there's a, a lot of people and a lot of entities and businesses that, um, deem this person to be important. Mm-hmm. Okay. So because of that, lots of times it's not gonna be like, no one's li like a listening per se to like what this person is saying. They're, they're just mesmerized by the status of it, of, of this person.

[00:40:20] Mm-hmm. And that prevents actual thinking. So that this is also why, for example, someone that can dribble a basketball, you know, is also expected and kind of also like. Ties himself into like social issues at the same time. 

[00:40:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:36] Toliy: Because like, this person's important, this person now becomes a hero for a bunch of people, or like an idol.

[00:40:42] Mm-hmm. Because like, he's maybe good at something that people want to be, or, or, or like do and or is marketed to be as important or good. So the words that this individual says usually are not like, like they, they, they, they, they don't allow for thinking. They, they allow for like fo following. Mm-hmm.

[00:41:02] Which is why is that like someone like Andrew Tate that for, for example, like markets to his audience of people, like he, to me, markets to like, like the, like the modern day, like loser, right? Mm-hmm. And he has a very particular like, um, way of speaking to them, and particular instructions to which I, I, I think he knows ahead of time that his audience will never achieve.

[00:41:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:24] Toliy: They'll never get to be like him. 

[00:41:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:27] Toliy: And I think that that's, that, that, that's intentional. 

[00:41:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:30] Toliy: Like, um, like they'll, they'll, they'll never be what they think 'cause like they're following or they're doing particular things may maybe that like he's saying, right? Mm-hmm. To like do something or get up at like, to to to basically be like him, right?

[00:41:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:46] Toliy: But the way that it's like design is that they'll never be like him. They're meant to be losers forever. 

[00:41:51] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And keep buying his bullshit. 

[00:41:54] Toliy: Yeah. So like it. Um, ignorance is trumped by like status and idols. Mm-hmm. That, that's, that's why I think that like, in like a lot of like religious studies, they ban, um, I like to, to, to idolize.

[00:42:06] You can only idolize like God, right? Mm-hmm. Like in like all all I think like, like everything, right? Ev every religion says that because they don't want, um, they know that, for example, like, man is ignorant or like flawed. Mm-hmm. And they don't want people to idolize flawed beings, 

[00:42:23] Eldar: the wrong stuff. 

[00:42:23] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:42:24] Yeah. 

[00:42:25] Dre: Well, one thing he touched on, I was gonna even ask you before you mentioned that, is define mentor versus idol. 

[00:42:32] Toliy: Well, um, I feel like when it comes to like the right mentor, he is, um, like, like he, he, he would be someone for example, that's like, um, hands on. Yeah. Ha. Hands on. Like he's embodying the truth and like living it out and you could see it in action.

[00:42:51] Dre: Well, here's another important point. So a mentor is something you're doing to basically, uh, how can I say it? So a mentor, you're doing something to advance your life, to create your life, to give something to the world. And as whereas an idol, I believe is always bad. So basically in your life you get one to two mentors and for me you get one to two mentors because how many things do you wanna master?

[00:43:18] If you have all these, like this guy LeBron James. He's not a mentor at that point. What you're describing is a i is an i an idol. He's your idol. Mm-hmm. Which is a waste of time. Yeah. So I, I, I believe as a, as a man, as an individual, yeah. You get maybe one to two mentors mm-hmm. In your life. And zero idols.

[00:43:41] They're not, they're not really useful. You could say. Like, if you're religious, you have one idol. Mm-hmm. Which is God, which is fine. Yeah. That is fine. But I mean, if, if you have idols for the sake of, or even your father, uh, your father can be your idol, let's say. Uh, or your hero if, but doesn't have to be.

[00:44:00] Maybe he, you, you, you're, he didn't achieve, or he, you don't look up to that. No, I don't think 

[00:44:04] Toliy: that you should have any idols. 

[00:44:06] Dre: I agree. Yeah. You shouldn't have idol thought. Thought he said that. Yeah. That word is a negative connotation in that sense. But, and, and mentors also, like, if you have this celebrity, this person, uh, because he's a good rapper, this person, 'cause he's a good basketball player, that's not really a mentor to you.

[00:44:21] Toliy: Yeah. And like, you're like, if you have a mentor or like a teacher or like someone in your life like that, like that person has to be like an active, like, participant. Participant, yeah. Into like, what they're like, they can't be like retired. Like, hey, like I, I used to do like philosophy or I used to do like ethical things.

[00:44:38] Not, not really anymore though. You know, and like, I'm gonna teach you about, like, they're, they're someone that like, it, it like the, the best person would be someone that like, you know, speaks the truth and embodies the truth and like. Participates in like, passing down like the, the, uh, truth, right? That, that, that way, like, you can go wrong.

[00:44:58] You can't get like steer the wrong way almost. Right? Um, like obviously I think that that's like rare, you know, or har hard to prob prob probably find, but, um, it's possible obviously, you know. Um, but yeah, 

[00:45:13] Dre: and I think the mentor finds this, the student more so than the reverse. People think the student should find the right mentor for them, or they should look and say, can you be my mentor?

[00:45:22] But I think the, the actual thing that hap the actual clicking that happens, that's a good relationship is actually the mentor has to be like, Hey, I've done this and maybe I wanna pass on this for free, or whatever, or not. But the, the PE any, everybody wants a mentor, right? If you wanted to shortcut, let's say you're trying to do this thing, uh, no, but I don't 

[00:45:44] Toliy: think everybody wants a mentor.

[00:45:46] Dre: Well, people are working on certain things in their life. Wouldn't you want a, a shortcut to it or a easier path? I think most people would say Yeah. To Well, yeah, 

[00:45:54] Toliy: but you also have to be convinced that like, that, that, that's like the case, right? It's possible. There's like plenty of people you probably like see in like your own life, right?

[00:46:02] That like, you know, like they're doing things a particular way and they're, they're like, they're not gonna listen to anybody. Like they, they're not like someone that's gonna like go ask questions or go inquire. They're, they're someone that like, they think they know and they're just gonna do it, right?

[00:46:16] Yeah. They 

[00:46:16] Eldar: might not even know that that resource even exists. 

[00:46:19] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like that, uh. That's also like a big thing, is that like knowing what's possible and what's not, and to, um, a lot of people, like what's possible is a very small like, um, possibility. Like they, they, they just, like, some people are suffering through something and you're looking at them like, Hey, like, like, um, like you're almost feeling like, well, did you know that?

[00:46:43] Like you could do this differently. And then like, you wouldn't do this to them. Their mouths calm their mind like, Hey, this is normal. What are you talking about? Like, they're, they're not even inquiring whether you can do something about this, because to them, this is just how things are. So like, if you believe that there's there, there's no world where you seek for help.

[00:47:02] Like, you only seek for help if you feel like you need it. And, and you have to know that like, it's possible to, to change something or it's possible to do something differently. But I think mo most people don't believe that. 

[00:47:15] Eldar: So how do you tie this back to knowing thyself, right? Because it's almost saying like, you, you in this like loop, if you don't have a mentor right, a person to look up to, who's actually can be that resource to be able to guide you in the right direction, right?

[00:47:28] If you are lost, if you don't have that, like how do you ever find out who the fuck you are? 

[00:47:32] Dre: Yeah. I think there's no chance. Yeah. C one, we have this thing in, in, in, in medical, in medicine it's a a C one, do one, teach one. So before you can do something. You have to see though, it's usually a procedure, but it can be anything.

[00:47:48] Mm-hmm. So you have to see it first. Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:51] Eldar: That is, that's a, that's capable of being done. Yes. Like you can, 

[00:47:54] Dre: and are you interested, or do you have the skills? Some, some things have a certain minimum level of natural talent that you won't be good in because there's, uh, the, the new thing is we're finding out that about two thirds of life is, is in the womb, in the chromosome splicing.

[00:48:09] I believe that. And I think, what does that mean? What does that mean? So, for example, uh, uh, uh, twin studies or, or just, uh, basically your outcomes in life. Mm-hmm. To the point of even like, we know now that just hard work and being, uh, driven is, is, uh, in your genetics. So when you ask someone, uh, well, if you're not talent, you say, if you're not talented, you just have to work harder than others.

[00:48:34] Well, actually, what, what is hard work That's in your genetics, really? Yeah. Just like disposition. I, I said this before and I really believe it. Some people walk around at an eight out of 10 in, in, that's why, like, I, I talked to this totally. He's like, I don't believe that you're, uh, uh, you don't have this amount of suffering.

[00:48:52] I think I talked to bis Mike. No, some people are, uh, there's a genetic component to, let's say, just what you worry about. You know, so you're almost saying that two thirds, 

[00:49:02] Eldar: for example, so it's like, almost like karmic thing that's passed down from fucking previous lives. You could do one 

[00:49:06] Dre: third. That's it.

[00:49:08] You could do, you could do one third through, for example, let's say you, uh, sleep better and you do sauna and you, you can deal with stress better and you can perform better. Okay. That's one third, but you're two thirds you're born with thanks to your parents, but also like two short parents can produce a tall person.

[00:49:24] So there's also the chromosome splicing and just a genetic chance. Okay. Yeah. Or like two tall parents can produce someone that's five three. So do you think that, 

[00:49:32] Toliy: like if, if two thirds is like not choice, do you think that like when babies, when like babies are born, they should test them and be like, well this one's, you know, destined for failure.

[00:49:41] That the, the problem is that's there's no test. Get them outta here. There's get 'em outta here. This one like a, a good chance things. Yeah. For, 

[00:49:48] Dre: for like physical phenotypic things. There might be a test, but like a test for how they will turn out later in life. Like how did they, no, how 

[00:49:53] Toliy: do you know then that, that it's two thirds though then like how, how, like how can you, what kind of study you have to conduct?

[00:49:59] I think they 

[00:49:59] Dre: do, they do twin studies and they also look at like, uh, uh, parents what they did in life. And then they, they compared like the mom and dad in certain traits and then they compared what's the probability that their offspring did it? And if they're both, are 

[00:50:13] Toliy: you, they were able to know then?

[00:50:14] Dre: Yeah. So the offing are identical twins. They can see that, like if they were raised in a different environment, they can alter a certain amount. But like 70, 65, 70% of say the same. So I'm talking about like how much money you earn. I'm talking about like, uh, um, how good you are in business, uh, your, your relationship, like, uh, uh, you're your people person, like, uh, eq.

[00:50:37] Mm-hmm. You know, all that stuff is, uh, is uh, baked in already is in the uterus. It's in, in Euro right away. Mm. So that means that you can take comfort in that and knowing, um, that's how, how I was, that's how I was dealt. But doesn't mean you can't, I it doesn't mean you can't improve 

[00:50:56] Eldar: Yeah. On certain things or change your trajectory, but 

[00:50:57] Dre: certain things you're not gonna be able to do, uh, like, like LeBron or anyone else.

[00:51:01] Yeah. So that's why, I guess tying into what interests some, that's the thing like in life, do you do what you're good at? Which is probably easy, or do you do what interests you? Which most people actually were, are, are probably gonna, people are are lazy. And we look for the easiest, uh, line, straightest line to the, to the minimum acceptable outcome.

[00:51:24] I think you can tell me if you disagree, but that's 

[00:51:27] Toliy: always like, based on what that person knows, right? Like they're, what they view as a straight line could actually be the very long route. Like in reality, right? Yeah. 

[00:51:34] Dre: What they've observed and what they know. But I, I would argue things like, uh, exactly.

[00:51:40] Things like, uh, motivation or things like, uh, uh, dealing, uh, decisive decision making to that. A lot of that is ingrained. 'cause some, sometimes it's just getting started. And, and making mistakes only way people won't even get started on something they want to do, you know? But there's a yes and know thyself.

[00:52:03] It takes the dec decades of, uh, I think of, of, yeah, most of the time. Most of the time, uh, we're living life in like a movie. I, I don't know. That's the thing about, uh, meditation or anything else most of the time do you stop and think of, oh, I'm having these thoughts. Why? Yeah. Or like, oh, maybe like, you're just living out reaction.

[00:52:23] Eldar: Just, it's 

[00:52:23] Dre: like 

[00:52:23] Eldar: a yeah, like a You're living it out. Yeah, that's right. You're just living it out. Like we talk about this all the time where we, uh, you know, born into or born, you know, being brainwashing into very specific perspectives that we have to kind of live out and without ever questioning them up until they hurt us enough.

[00:52:38] Right. Provide us enough pain where we're like, ah, that hurts. What the fuck? Like, that's not serving me, like worshiping LeBron or some other celebrities not serving me. Like, what the fuck? I just spent all my money on going to WWE events or something like that. You know, like, what did I get from it? You know, nothing, you know, like shit like that, you know?

[00:52:55] Uh, yeah. And slowly, I mean, over probably decades of time, you start, hopefully you wake up and you're like, oh, I gotta grow out of this. What the fuck? But still, is that enough? Right? Is it enough to live a life of virtue that Socrates talks about where your life is actually good, right? By definition, what is a good life filled with virtue and wisdom?

[00:53:18] You know, what is, what does that look like? You know, should we be. Pursue that? Or are we stuck saying, you know what, evaluate my parents like, yo, they got two left feet. I'm never playing basketball. Like I'm, you know, whatever. I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. You know, and give up on yourself and find the path of least resistance and kind of just follow that.

[00:53:37] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. I feel like it's much more interesting for like the, like the mental things or the things you can't see versus like the physical things. You know, someone's like six, eight, you know, and can jump 40 inches. You know, like there, it's, I think it's more easily to identify versus someone who's like five two and can jump five inches, you know?

[00:53:56] Um, but with the mental stuff that, that to me is where like, like I, I, I definitely buy into more of what, what you were saying, um, with like the physical, some, some, some like, physical traits. But I feel like, um, I think a lot of the mental traits are, are, are like, um, molded, like may, may, maybe. I think that like two thirds could be molded during, like the way that you're raised process, you know, like your, your early years and then like, you know, that's like 

[00:54:26] Dre: the ways that you, but the way that you raised came from your parents, which is also genetic.

[00:54:29] Yes. But that was the way that they're literally speaking to you. They like, uh, uh, someone that, for example, your parents are warm and loving to you when you're, that, that actually proves your IQ and your speech. That's a known fact. So that came from their genetics part, at least two, I think at least half.

[00:54:47] Uh, so that, that already is genetics. Uh, also like. How, you know, in the beginning. So, uh, doesn't mean it's a nihilistic view on everything. It just means that know your, the limitations know thyself and, um, 

[00:55:03] Eldar: and act according Yeah, act accordingly. Yeah. 

[00:55:08] So then you can have more closer, uh, you know, reality to actual reality, like your life to reality.

[00:55:18] And the more closer it is, the more happy you're probably gonna be versus, you know, uh, you know, thinking you can do these outrageous things and stuff while, you know, you really not cut out for that, you know, like grandiose thinking and stuff. Right. 

[00:55:34] Dre: Well, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think, uh, happiness is really for women and children because men are not judged by happiness even themselves.

[00:55:42] Mm-hmm. Men are judged by performance, by, uh, competence. Mm-hmm. So, uh, there's, I agree, there's a general human sense of, of being fulfilled or happy or content with something. But in general, uh, uh, happiness is, is is actually a too low of a bar for, uh, I believe, I think you have to look at significance, uh, impact mm-hmm.

[00:56:06] In this life. But I, I agree. Most people, I, I think you, you have to, you, you, you will never reach that until you'll reach that level of, it's vague a bit by the level that of contentment and happiness. 

[00:56:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:17] Dre: Uh, and that's not a, a sexist thing because that's how no one is gonna care if a man is ha is happy or not, or you know, if you're, if you got fired or whatever, you'll, you'll have, if I'm, uh, a manis in a war there, there's not gonna be a lot of, uh, tears shed in general.

[00:56:34] And you see that in, in, in, in media and, and in movies. Men are generally expendable in that way. And that's good. I think that's good because that's, uh, how, that's how, uh, maybe a, a tangent, but I think that's how civilization progresses. Progresses. It's just how it is. Men will jump, just jump in front of their family, give more, give more birth to mo men.

[00:56:53] Yeah. Men will do that. Uh, uh, and that's why the happiness thing is like, uh, I 

[00:56:58] Eldar: feel, but then almost, but then it's almost, almost contradicts what your original statement was regarding like, uh, women as the ones we judge. And happiness is a lower bar. Like if we really don't care about men's men like that, right?

[00:57:10] Because they're expendable like tools to progress society. It's like, all right, you guys are just made to fucking muscle move, move shit around. But the real thinking goes to women. 

[00:57:21] Dre: What I was saying is, uh, so it's how you view it, how other people view it, I think, or what people strive for. I think, um.

[00:57:31] Every children are, are, are born happy. You know, that's a natural state of, of, of being a human. Mm-hmm. Is being happy actually, when you're curious, when you're playing, uh, that's a natural state. And then, uh, who, who, uh, and then what, what do people strive for? Of course. Uh, uh, I think women and children are striving to be happy.

[00:57:56] I'm speaking in broad, in broad terms. That's a, that's a big goal. But for men to be as their only goal, I think that's a, you're, you're gonna be, that's a low bar. Mm-hmm. You're like you in life. You're not gonna achieve a lot as, as a, as a, as a man. But if your just goal is to be happy, but if the society 

[00:58:14] Eldar: preaches very specific thing, then it's a value proposition Right.

[00:58:18] For men that bought in into that. Right. That okay. You know? Okay. Like, men are providers. Like if that's the standard Right. You guys gotta go hunt and kill and bring fucking food back. Right. Then, like, if you do that, and if I'm a man, if I do that and I accomplish that and I come back, I am praised. That is my happiness.

[00:58:34] Right. Because I'm accomplished. Right. Exactly. Exactly. I, I have utility, you know what I mean? You're praised, but not only by others, you by yourself. But look at, but look at the trajectory of the society. Right? Like less and less men are men. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yes, yes. It's, it's like everything's technology, right?

[00:58:50] There's robots gonna be able soon to fucking harvest. Men 

[00:58:52] Dre: are less, are less so, uh, manly And women. And women also. Yeah. Like drones fight 

[00:58:57] Eldar: out wars, right? Like you don't have to go with a sword fucking kill behead someone. Someone also 

[00:59:02] Dre: who is, who is needed Are men Masculinity needed as femininity needed.

[00:59:05] I both are not needed as much. Well, no, no. 

[00:59:08] Eldar: It's, I mean it's, I think it's the lion's going more towards the women. Right? In in what way? And the, and the, and the preservation, you know, and pres preserving the society. I think it's more towards like get, get rid of the aggression, get, get rid of the anger and the masculinity in order to preserve a race that, that's love.

[00:59:27] Like, that's going towards like, okay, cool, wait, we have to actualize, really find out how to live actual, genuine, happy lives where men don't have to fucking, you know, have all these bottled up feelings to go fight fucking others. You know, like, and that's what's happening. 

[00:59:42] I 

[00:59:42] think 

[00:59:42] Dre: So to state that, again, you're saying, you're saying that should be the goal always, or is it, I'm not saying I think it's happening.

[00:59:49] I think it's happening whether you like it or not. So it's so basically yeah. Men have to be less manly. No, not, not that they have to, it's happening. It's just like they are, it's just what's happening. Yeah. So basically, um, this is because we're moving away from what, the primitive ways Yeah, yeah. We're slowly moving away from primitive ways.

[01:00:04] Yeah. But how, but masculinity is not only about the physical, uh, is about the physical thing. You can hunt and all that stuff. It's also how you think protect it. Evolving. Correct. Yeah. It is evolving. And I think 

[01:00:16] Eldar: that maybe, maybe if we instilling more confidence in our kids, right. To be able to actualize themselves a little bit better, then yeah.

[01:00:23] That's gonna be another way of progressing. Right. But it doesn't necessarily have to be where I have to like lift a thousand pounds in order to instill confidence into my child. 

[01:00:31] Dre: Well, if you go to like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. If you go to punch somebody, if you go to poorer countries, the, the distinction between these, it's what men should do and women should do our, it's very clear and it's taught in schools actually.

[01:00:41] Yeah. 

[01:00:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:41] Dre: So you're right. It's a cultural thing. Yeah. And should that be the el end goal for all of humanity? I mean, you're, in one sense we have less violence than we ever had. We are, you know, less. I think that's what we're trying to, so that's a natural progression in general. Yeah. Um, so it's a matter of how you wanna run your society.

[01:00:58] I'm not saying you everybody gay, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. It's how do you wanna run your society, you know? Yeah. Um, there's a very interesting, uh, statistic and, uh. I, I, I think about these two statistics. If you, if you look, if you just, uh, look at what percent of men passed on their genes had children from 2000 to 8,000 years ago.

[01:01:18] Mm-hmm. The number was only seven to 11%. Hmm. Really? Yes. So, so what people are, we, I think we touched on this before, but what about now? What's the difference? So, what's really funny now is what, what's, what's funny now is, uh, more, uh, like 60% of men are single, uh, and, and men basically are not, are, are, are not dating.

[01:01:41] Mm-hmm. Or another way to say it is. Uh, but what was the phenomenon? More and more women are dating less and less men due to dating apps and due to our global marketplace. Okay. So basically it's kind of interesting. So what was always true in terms of the, the, the man that could conquer and pillage societies and he will have all the children.

[01:02:00] So that was true from, let's say five, 500,000 years ago, up until 2000 years ago. Mm. Then modern marriage was created mostly for building civilization and for most men to be, have regular access to, to basically sex and to be able to have children. Mm-hmm. But it's funny how that lasted just in modern history from 2000 years ago until very recently, and now women just.

[01:02:24] Wealthy countries don't need to have kids. They, they just don't, they're not having them. Mm-hmm. You know, even moderately wealthy and in general, uh, again, it's the same thing. The top 10% are, have access to all the, the reproduction. So it went still, it went back to how it always was. Now it's, it's, it's a natural selection.

[01:02:41] Yeah. So it went back to how it always was in the antiquity, but it's doing it through a smartphone and everything else, which is interesting now due through a globalized dating marketplace. Well, well then, then you have 

[01:02:50] Eldar: to give respect to the, the design. I, I have to. Yeah. I to life is, 

[01:02:55] Mike: life is the ultimate balancer.

[01:02:56] Right? 

[01:02:56] Eldar: Well, no. Yeah. I think that this shit is made in such a proper way. Yeah. That, like, you can't cheat it. You know what I'm saying? It's gonna go how it's supposed to go. Yeah, exactly. The trajectory of it. Mm-hmm. You know, it's a good point whether you like it or not, which is why, that's why you have to give respect to Jaja.

[01:03:13] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think that's also important things to know about the society and the world. Right. In order to then maybe kind of figure out how, how do I fit in? Who am I here? Right. Am I gonna be one of the people that are gonna be able to pass on these jeans or, or not? 

[01:03:33] You know? Hmm. So did,

[01:03:40] Hey, congratulations. Fun. Thank you. Yeah. 

[01:03:44] Toliy: We, we have to though. I think we have to tackle, uh, cousin's question. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, he's sent question. Yeah, let's continue with the question. Yeah, go ahead. Well, he, he, he, he asked a few things. He, he wrote, um, well, well, first off, he wanted to find out about this topic of knowing yourself, right?

[01:03:58] Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:59] Eldar: Which we, I think we did a little bit. Yeah. 

[01:04:00] Toliy: And then he started to ask, he, he said, what, what makes me make the decisions that I make? Like why does he make the decisions that he makes? Hmm. Um, what, um,

[01:04:17] what's, what's driving me? I guess he, he's asking like, I guess, yeah, maybe like what makes him make the decisions that he's making and what maybe what's driving those decisions. And then he said like, is it stupidness not, not enough information, um, not taking my time, fear something else. You know? So I guess he's trying to figure out is like, why is he making the decisions that he's making?

[01:04:42] Eldar: Well, two thirds of them we know. Yes. You know, his genes. I had the genes of genetics. And 

[01:04:47] Dre: the other thing is that's the discussion about, I dunno if you heard of, uh, uh, uh, Sam Harris is a big proponent of, uh, of um, uh, no free, no free will. We don't have, uh, uh, authority or agency about the next thing we do or the next thing we feel, or the next thing we think.

[01:05:03] So basically two things. Uh, genetics, which is basically your physical, an anatomic brain, how it's wired, and then all of the past experiences you had from this moment to one minute before, one minute before all the way until you're born. That's the other thing that's making him make those decisions.

[01:05:19] There's nothing else. There's just your brain and then there's your effect of you're not getting enough sleep. You, you told this to this person. They heard a honking horn. They became stressed. This effect, what happened happened last, last, last. So I can only think of those two things. So you're saying saying 

[01:05:37] Mike: you're fucked.

[01:05:38] If you're fucked, you're fucked. 

[01:05:39] Dre: Well, there's a, there's a huge randomness to the, and the early past events Jump, 

[01:05:43] Toliy: jump on the front of the train. Yeah, no, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It sounds like then when kids are born, they gotta just off them. Yeah. If they don't have a, like if, if the odds are against them, then 

[01:05:53] Mike: the gigs up.

[01:05:54] They were trying to figure out what's the Well, there's, they depict us in the movies. Yeah. There's movie. 

[01:06:00] Toliy: Oh, okay's the movie G Galactica or whatever. 

[01:06:02] Mike: G Pico. Yeah. 

[01:06:03] Toliy: G Pico. 

[01:06:05] Mike: Yeah. There was, uh, in the Republic, they talk about this stuff, about how to figure out who's meant for what, who's bronze, who's silver, and who's gold.

[01:06:13] Right? That's right. Like the purity of your soul. Yeah. And 

[01:06:16] Toliy: so you're saying that causes bronze or I don't 

[01:06:18] Mike: think they have labeled helping yet. Yeah. Whatever's below bronze. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And I think if, if that's the case, if we, if you know, if, if that's the truth or if you guys believe that, then yeah, maybe that's kind of what it is.

[01:06:31] And they say like, you gotta find out what your, what your, like if you know, if your parents are blacksmith, you just continue that and that's your cap. Mm-hmm. You know? But how do they check your purity? If you saw, I don't know where the tests were at. I don't remember. Yeah. But something like that, like Yeah.

[01:06:46] Um, based on what you were saying is everybody's kind of cut out for what they cut out for and that's what it is. Yeah. That's interesting though. Yeah. Yeah. So if you have, even if you do have a breakthrough, it's not like a breakthrough 'cause you were meant to. You're supposed to. Yeah. And if you, but then, 

[01:07:05] Eldar: but then it's a very, you know, like a pessimistic way.

[01:07:08] Yeah. 

[01:07:08] Mike: No, I'm, listen, I'm not saying that's pe like Oh, it 

[01:07:10] Eldar: was meant to be all the time. Like, you know, you constantly don't have the ability to kind of have any control maybe over your life. Yeah. Or the decisions you're making or the goals that you're setting for yourself. Yeah. It's almost like, uh, 

[01:07:21] Dre: well the key thing is just knowing, thinking about it, you think you're a step, you're ahead of a lot of people.

[01:07:26] The, just thinking about it, like, what, what's making me do this? Or is it something like, why am I thinking this and should I change? Should I do something? There is the one 

[01:07:38] Mike: third. So there is the potential there is for everybody. Yeah. And I think, I think that's 

[01:07:43] Toliy: important. 

[01:07:44] Mike: I think, yeah. I think that's, yeah.

[01:07:45] But not, 

[01:07:46] Toliy: not, not if, uh, two thirds are, are, are bad. Right. Then like the one third can't overpower it. 

[01:07:51] Eldar: Yeah. I think it can. Well that's what you said. Some two parents that are short can have a kid that is very tall. Yeah. Right. Why, how also what happens? Uh, 

[01:07:59] Mike: you know, like the nurture nature thing. That means the 

[01:08:01] Eldar: great, great grandfather is fucking fighting through, you know, to get through.

[01:08:04] Yeah. 

[01:08:05] Mike: Yeah. The nature nurture thing also, like, uh. If you are in an environment where you are like in power and you're gonna be constantly pressed and asked questions and challenged if you stick, if you stay around it, I'm not sure if you could, if the two thirds are gonna win out here. You know, if you're constantly in the fucking fire, fire.

[01:08:24] So 

[01:08:26] Toliy: you're saying that if you have like a magnet 

[01:08:28] Eldar: for IG ignorance? Yeah. That's why I think our exper Sorry. Totally. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I think that's why I experimented with Harris. Mm-hmm. Right. By the way, if you don't know what we're talking about, Harris is the hook. This is, uh, a journey of a, a friend of ours.

[01:08:40] We're trying to, uh, take 25 next 25 years to develop into the president of the United States in 2050. 

[01:08:47] Yeah. 

[01:08:47] Yeah. So we're gonna see whether or not we can take a lizard monkey and turn him into a human. 

[01:08:53] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:08:54] Eldar: Dre says the odds are against us. 

[01:08:55] Toliy: Yes. Yeah, he definitely is in the bottom. Like he is 

[01:08:58] Eldar: in, he's a tad pole.

[01:08:59] Mike: He definitely, you can see the two thirds right on him if you just look at him.

[01:09:05] Yeah, 

[01:09:06] Eldar: you definitely can. 

[01:09:07] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:07] Mike: So 

[01:09:08] Toliy: you don't have to be a scientist to read his, uh, genetic report. Genetic makeup. 

[01:09:14] Eldar: Holy shit. Holy shit. Yeah, it's interesting. For sure. Yeah. Because it seems like, uh, based on what Dre at least said, you know, you're kind of fucked y Yeah. You, if you're listening, you're kind of fucked, you know?

[01:09:28] But that's a doctor speaking, right? Yeah. Scientists or, you know, gen genetics and stuff like that. You know, I think Oleg also agrees with this notion that a lot of times like, Hey, it's just genetics. Like it is what it is. Like, oh yeah. Nothing about it. But again, 

[01:09:40] Mike: I think yeah. You know, Ole agrees with it because he's convinced that that's his, like, uh, his condition and he's mm-hmm.

[01:09:48] Finds peace in knowing Yeah. What he knows. Even like, I guess for people, a lot of people, they, and Oles case, you find comfort in knowing what you know, even though you might be wrong. 

[01:09:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:58] Mike: Versus being over minded and maybe changing something about it, you know? Yeah. And we had this little powwow about it yesterday, A little powwow more than a Chi s Of 

[01:10:10] Eldar: course.

[01:10:11] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, of 

[01:10:11] Eldar: course. 

[01:10:11] Mike: Get a 

[01:10:11] Eldar: cup over there. Yeah. 

[01:10:12] Mike: I got you. Mm-hmm. You got it? Yeah. I get it. Yeah. What kind of tea you want, man? Chao or weak green tea. Whatever. Green tea. I got seat. 

[01:10:21] Eldar: You're making us nervous. Sit down. You're a guest man. You're guest man. We'll take care of you. 

[01:10:26] Toliy: So what, why is cause making the decisions that he's making?

[01:10:29] Eldar: Well, I think it is, uh, you know, if he asked a question about is it fear? Is it me being stupid? I think it's a combination of a lot of those things. 

[01:10:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:10:36] Eldar: You know, and I think that, um. The more we uncover. Right. Or the more that he kind of presents the, his way of thinking, his understanding of the world, uh, to individuals who can challenge him.

[01:10:49] Maybe, um, if he gets a mentor, right, uh, who can challenge him way of thinking, he can probably turn that two thirds, that Dre's talking about instead of one third. Right. Uh, where his genetics or whatever his makeup or his previous environment can slowly start to calm down and he can finally, uh, have a say in how things play out.

[01:11:10] Yeah. I feel for, 

[01:11:10] Toliy: for 'cause Like he, like, like I almost feel that like he, he, he needs to be a good enough student for, uh, whatever time that his mentor, um, deems is enough. Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:25] Eldar: Right? Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:27] Toliy: To, uh, like for for, for him, for to, to like impact change for himself. 

[01:11:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:34] Toliy: Right. Like that that, that to me is like, uh, not like fool foolproof, but like's, uh, but you see, 

[01:11:39] Eldar: I don't think he's asking right now for this specific advice.

[01:11:42] Totally. I don't think he's asking for a prediction of how long do I have to do or how do I do it? Right. Well, well, no, I'm not saying think he's asking very specific questions like, why do I think the way I think? 

[01:11:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:11:51] Eldar: Like, answer that. Oh, 

[01:11:53] Toliy: okay. Why, why does he think Yeah. Like I think 

[01:11:55] Eldar: that's the stage that he is on.

[01:11:56] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like the, like the things he already wrote, like he already knows in, in, in like a way, but he doesn't know at the same time. No, he 

[01:12:03] Eldar: doesn't know, 

[01:12:04] Toliy: but he is saying like, how do you like, um. List all of the things that they, that it actually is, but then also not know. Tell me. 

[01:12:13] Eldar: Yeah. And I think that's a very good question.

[01:12:15] Toliy: Like, how, how would that be possible? 

[01:12:16] Eldar: It is possible because I think that the question that is being posed, or the questions that that do get posed in the moment of suffering are very specific questions. And that's a very specific moment. 

[01:12:30] Yeah. 

[01:12:31] But then you go to sleep and you know how this works. 

[01:12:33] Toliy: Yes.

[01:12:34] Eldar: Right. And then it's norm, uh, regular programming. What are you gonna do about that? It's a constant switch between I'm suffering and I gotta have to ask these questions. I'm like, almost have to get beaten to it. Right. Well, that's, I'm questions well's. What 

[01:12:47] Toliy: I'm saying is that like, he needs to be, like for him for, for, um, to, to, to have impact, to change for himself where it's felt.

[01:12:54] Mm-hmm. He needs to be, um, like persistent enough. Um, um, like he, he, he needs to be, uh, persistent enough to like, um 

[01:13:08] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:13:09] Toliy: To withstand like the, like the, the process of it, right. Like, yeah. 

[01:13:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:13] Toliy: But like, he, he never is 

[01:13:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:16] Toliy: You know? Yeah. Like, 

[01:13:17] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. 

[01:13:18] Toliy: Like that, that's part of like building or like doing anything.

[01:13:22] Like you have to do it, you have to do it for long, long enough where you can do something like ob ob, observe it while doing it. And then like, almost like report back to somebody and, and like continue to do it up until like you have a, uh, a well-oiled machine. 

[01:13:41] Eldar: You have a grip on it, 

[01:13:42] Toliy: you know? Yeah. Um, but a lot of people find it difficult to, to go through all that 

[01:13:51] Eldar: and do it.

[01:13:51] Oh, look at Dre, Dre said, yeah, this shit to know thyself. It takes decades. Well, yeah, sure. You know, to actually get to a point where it's like, I know who I am, I know what I like, I know what I'm about. And to stay confidently on that, to state that Yeah. It's, it's many, many years. Yeah. You know, and that's o that's probably many years after you finally realize that you don't know something.

[01:14:16] But what, so what, what do you suggest for him to do? I think I suggest for him to continue to suffer consciously. 

[01:14:26] Toliy: And what, what, what does that look like? Like 

[01:14:27] Eldar: what do, like what does that mean? Well, that means what we're talking about, right? Like surround themselves around individuals like ourselves, for example.

[01:14:35] Right. And bounce certain ideas against us so we can point out the fact that his, his understanding of him feeling bad about LeBron James when he is comparing that some, some girl on, on, on OnlyFans makes same amount of money as him and not working as hard is a wrong perspective. It's a wrong perspective.

[01:14:56] Mm-hmm. You know?

[01:15:02] That's what he needs to do. He needs to suffer more. 

[01:15:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:15:05] Eldar: And he needs to suffer publicly. Yeah. 

[01:15:08] Mike: Well that, I think I, I was saying this on the last episode. Uh, I, you have to be as stupid as possible in front of everybody. Yes. You have to like, I like me coming to you guys and you guys knowing about the sandwich thing.

[01:15:22] Yeah. About the fires thing. Oh, we know about a lot of things. Yeah. You guys know many things, but just those two examples 'cause we just spoke about 'em. 

[01:15:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:28] Mike: That's me being as stupid as possible. 

[01:15:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:30] Mike: And showing my biggest stupidity in front of everybody so that people can a point out other way, ways that I might not be seeing Yeah.

[01:15:36] But also putting it in open. Yeah. And like publicly embarrassing myself so that in the moment when if it, that kind of thing happens again, I'm gonna know that that's not who I wanna be. Yeah. That's not how I want to act. That's right. And, and part of like, yeah. Calling yourself out in front of other people is huge.

[01:15:54] Mm-hmm. Because you're gonna make an idiot of yourself and Well, if you're complete idiot, you probably, uh, you probably will continue it. But if you're not a complete idiot, you're probably not gonna wanna do that. Nobody likes to feel like an idiot. Just back. Well, yeah. As much as possible. 

[01:16:10] Eldar: Yeah. You know?

[01:16:10] Well, the thing is, the environment have to be con um, um, good enough for you to be able to open up in that manner. Right. Well, you realize that like. I know that the guys wish me well. I know that the guys are trying to bring objective, be objective about our conversations. Mm-hmm. And we're trying to get to the bottom of things.

[01:16:27] Right? Yeah. Trying to find out what the truth of the matter is. Yep. Right. And clearly now that you have your own faculties and your own abilities now to deduce the fact that when you act in a retard, it's, you act in a retard. Mm-hmm. And it's actually painful, right? Yes. Where before you were acting like a retard.

[01:16:42] Right. You didn't know that it was painful. 

[01:16:45] Mike: Yeah. But you know, or you, it's also different when you act like a retard and you give yourself the slack, like, ah, it's okay. 

[01:16:50] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[01:16:51] Mike: know? But when you tell other people 

[01:16:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:53] Mike: Now they know you're a retard again, that's also different. 

[01:16:55] Eldar: Yeah. You know? 

[01:16:56] Mike: Yeah. Because yeah, once it's out and open, you can't hide.

[01:16:59] You can't hide from yourself either anymore. That's right. Because you know, other people already know the trick that you're playing. Yeah. The prestige doesn't work anymore. Yeah. 

[01:17:06] Toliy: Yeah. That's what I'm saying, where like the, the ignorance wants to not be caught. It wants to be like, uh, slip through the shadows, you know?

[01:17:14] Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:15] Toliy: And that's okay if you want to enter a dynamic where there's truth Yeah. For example, where there's examination, so it's like, yeah. Like you have to, like, if, if you wanna change any of these things, like you have to share as much as possible. 

[01:17:28] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:30] Toliy: Like, and then yeah. From sharing as much as possible, you give yourself the most opportunity to see the blind spots that you don't see.

[01:17:38] Mm-hmm. Yeah. In, in, in your own 

[01:17:40] Eldar: life. And even if you don't take the advice, like he didn't take certain advice that we gave him. Right. He then for, you know, went and lived his life 

[01:17:48] mm-hmm. 

[01:17:49] Fell where he needed to fall, got hurt. Yeah. And then reflecting like, oh shit, the guys were talking about this. They foreseen something, they saw something maybe next time.

[01:17:58] Right. Long enough keep falling and keep getting hurt long enough. Soon as he's like, you know what, I'm gonna try what the guys are telling me. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna try that theory. And he is gonna go, he is gonna try it. Yeah. And then he is gonna discover it's like, oh shit. There is a different way of doing things.

[01:18:13] Yeah. That, that's, and that's when you discover though one the other one third. 

[01:18:16] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, like sharing is almo, like persistent sharing is almost like a foolproof method because all of those seeds get planted and they will one day sprout. 

[01:18:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:27] Toliy: Right. With with like enough sharing and enough, uh, correct.

[01:18:30] Persistence. 

[01:18:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:31] Toliy: But, um, like the, the, the, um, the interesting part about suffering is that like, um, when when, when it's recognized and like the feeling is bad, you also want like a, uh, like a, a mystical thing to happen where just like years of particular habits or weight or doing things or like consequences are just wiped out within like minutes or hours or days.

[01:18:59] Right? 

[01:18:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:00] Toliy: Um, that's how you feel. Like once, once you realize it, you want change asap. You don't say like, Hey, like. Damn, I've been doing this wrong for, for like 10 years. Um, if I could undo this within the next five, then I'll be happy. 

[01:19:14] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:19:14] Toliy: Half the time. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you could do it in half the time, that sounds like a good accomplishment, right?

[01:19:20] Yeah. 

[01:19:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:20] Toliy: But people don't think that like, that they wanna undo everything and they wanna, uh, live like they, they, they wanna live the life of like a virtuous, like, uh, ethical, like mm-hmm. Moral good person within like a snap of the fingers. 

[01:19:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:35] Toliy: They, they, they, they want an asap. 

[01:19:37] Eldar: Yeah. Which it 

[01:19:38] Toliy: doesn't, but, so like, um, why, why do you think that the mind is like, um, like, like thinks in that kind of way?

[01:19:45] Like where, more than anything? I don't think 

[01:19:46] Eldar: it's a, it's a mind, I think it's a conditioned ego. 

[01:19:48] Toliy: Yeah. So why do you think that, that, that the conditioned ego then, like, why, like, how, how does that make sense? Like, why does the person feel that? Like, this makes sense, that like, like I, I was, I was, I was giving the example that if they did something for like 10 years mm-hmm.

[01:20:01] And I don't remember if you guys were here, they wanna wipe it slate clean 

[01:20:04] Eldar: in, in one month. Yeah. Like, 

[01:20:05] Toliy: once you realize that you're suffering, right. Like, you wanna not suffer asap. Yeah. And if you did something for 10 years, like, what, what wouldn't it be great to say like, Hey, like, you've been fucking up for 10 years.

[01:20:16] How about, um, um, I'm gonna try it really hard for the next five years and to, to undo this? Mm-hmm. Like, wouldn't that be a success? Like, you're, do, you're, you're. Um, completely making a 360 and half the time that you took the first trip. 

[01:20:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:32] Toliy: That sound great. Right? You 

[01:20:33] Eldar: know what? No, it doesn't sound great.

[01:20:34] You know why, why not? Because, uh, the whole time that you were fucking up for the, that 10 years, you never thought about fucking up. 

[01:20:41] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. See, that that, that's also a thing. Is that like you, but the five years is actual work. Mm-hmm. Yes. It's not blind work. Yes. You see? Yep. That's, that's where like the, the, um, the, the unexamined life comes in where Yeah.

[01:20:55] The, there, there is no see time doesn't exist in the unexamined life. It only exists in the examined life. 

[01:21:03] Eldar: Well, I'm not sure if it exists at all, but for sure. Well, 

[01:21:05] Toliy: but you know, like in, in, but know what I'm talking about when Yes. Yes. When it correlates to this. 

[01:21:10] Eldar: Yes. Right? Yes. Like just based on your example.

[01:21:12] Yes. Yeah. Like where, where it's like you, you, oh, I have to do all this work. Fuck this is gonna take so long. Yeah. But when go shit everywhere, you don't look at time, you just shit everywhere. It's like plain sims. You like, wait six hours passed. Yeah. I just fucking build a bathroom. 

[01:21:27] Toliy: Yeah. You know? So. Yeah.

[01:21:30] Like, I, I like if, if you're looking at it logically at that time, which, which I guess people aren't. Yeah. Like if you've been driving for 10 hours the wrong way. Yeah. And someone tells you you could undo that whole trip in five, you take it Right. You made a wrong turn and you went 10 hours the wrong way.

[01:21:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:21:51] Toliy: How would it make sense for you to undo that in 10 minutes for, for example, like how does it make sense to do it in five hours? If it takes 10 hours? Yes. 

[01:21:58] Mike: But it's also, um, unless you were driving in circles, the person who's like at that road where they realize they've been going in 10 years the wrong way, they still have like a lot of arrogance.

[01:22:08] Yes. So for them to admit it to themselves is almost like, I think impossible in that moment. Yes. It hurts a lot. Yeah. But nobody's gonna do that. But you see, what's interesting 

[01:22:16] Toliy: is that like the, the, um, like the, a arrogance does make sense to me, but it's almost like Yeah. They, they didn't like consciously feel that.

[01:22:26] Like, this is what's been going on for that long. Yeah. 

[01:22:29] Mike: Arrogance is not supposed to be like a logical or conscious, uh, understanding of what was happening. 

[01:22:35] Eldar: I think the, the, the, all the criminal activity that we've done within those 10 years against ourselves, that established a very specific ego. Right.

[01:22:45] Very specific, arrogant individual. Right. Um, without washing away your sense properly, right? Mm-hmm. Without repenting properly. Yeah. Uh, you are not gonna get a fucking shortcut here. Nope. You're not allowed to. You're not allowed to. You gotta pay 

[01:23:00] Toliy: the toll. What, what, what's the difference? Or, or, or, or is there, what's the difference between, like, why, why is there, um, like, is, is there one, one, is there a difference between ignorance and arrogance and like, um.

[01:23:15] Why? Can it just be the word ignorance? Why? Why does it, why, why do you think that there has to be the word a arrogance as well? Like why, why? I think arrogance is just call it ignorance. 

[01:23:23] Eldar: I think arrogance is doubling down and defending ignorance. 

[01:23:27] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:23:27] Mike: Mm. Well, because just asked the arrogant question. Yeah.

[01:23:33] Hmm. So 

[01:23:34] Toliy: what, what, what a fucking life can you imagine? Like, um, like you, you were a defense attorney for, for, for ignorance, you know, like, yeah, yeah. Like, see, yeah. See, like that, that makes sense. Be be because when I think about a arrogance, ignorance is easy. Yeah. It can be 

[01:23:49] Eldar: wiped off. All you didn't know.

[01:23:50] Okay, well, I'll tell you now, you'll know better. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But arrogance now is like, not only do 

[01:23:55] Toliy: you not know No, 

[01:23:56] Eldar: but you're defending, you are fighting. Prove. 

[01:23:59] Toliy: But it's also a form of ignorance, right? Like that's what it Well, it's just the next level behavior. 

[01:24:03] Eldar: It's just No, it's next level.

[01:24:04] And now, yeah. And now arrogance also carries a level of attachment to proving the point of your, your ignorant point. So there's attachment level to it as well. 

[01:24:14] Toliy: Okay. So it, yeah. Basically a arrogance is like ignorance with attachment. 

[01:24:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:20] Toliy: Yeah. What a terrible thing to have, right? 

[01:24:24] Eldar: Oh, yeah. Arrogance is crazy.

[01:24:26] Can you 

[01:24:26] Toliy: imagine if you're wrong about something and then you have like a strong desire to defend it? 

[01:24:30] Eldar: Yeah. Total for you. 

[01:24:31] Toliy: Yeah. It sounds terrible. 

[01:24:32] Eldar: Yeah. That's why we talk about the wrong perceptions and how long somebody's wrong. Perceptions, what's their time, timeline, shelf life. Yes. You know, in 

[01:24:39] Toliy: your mind.

[01:24:40] And it's significantly longer if you don't have the right people to bounce. Yeah. Your wrong perceptions against. 

[01:24:46] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. You know, imagine the individuals like celebrities, right? Okay. Yes. The ones that are under the impression that they're Right. Yeah. 

[01:24:53] Toliy: I already know you're gonna say 

[01:24:54] Eldar: they're in a, in, in a, in a lifetime of jail.

[01:24:57] Yeah. The mental jail. 

[01:24:58] Toliy: Because all, like, no one around them will 

[01:25:00] Eldar: No, everyone is a yes man. 

[01:25:02] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:25:02] Eldar: Nobody's gonna say, yo, you're fucking wrong about this. What the fuck are you talking about? Mm-hmm. Right? So they have to look at us, the peasants Right. Look down to, to, to look for answers. Which they, which they do.

[01:25:12] You know, they go into social media with burner accounts like bunch of pussies. Mm-hmm. And they stalk regular people because regular people have the answers because nobody around them actually have them or will give them to them. Which is a crazy prison sentence. It's a mental prison sentence. 

[01:25:29] Dre: That's why if you wanna befriend a, a celebrity or billionaire, you just treat them like a normal person.

[01:25:36] Eldar: Well, 

[01:25:36] Dre: yeah. No, no. We're 

[01:25:37] Eldar: gonna treat them as a sinner. Tell, well have to. I mean, 

[01:25:40] Dre: like, yeah, call them out, but don't, don't elevate them to anything past them. Just an of course, infallible human. Well, no, that's the thing. Like if you live 

[01:25:47] Eldar: in an examined life and you know your self worth and you know who you are, you know yourself, there's no way you're treating a celebrity as something else.

[01:25:54] Toliy: Well, uh, look, question. Um, it, it, it, it sounds wild in my mind, you know? Mm-hmm. I'm gonna try to try to like, make, make, make it make sense. 

[01:26:06] Eldar: Digestible. 

[01:26:08] Toliy: Do you think people who are like, you know, for example, like they're genetically talent talented at something that, um, is in like, um, the field of entertainment 

[01:26:21] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:26:21] Toliy: Which we've been talking about, distracts people from the truth. 

[01:26:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:27] Toliy: They're like, they're basically doing something, they're contributing towards masses of people being distracted from the truth. Mm-hmm. Right? So are they bound to then suffer their whole lives? 

[01:26:39] Eldar: Because Depends, I think depends the way, how they engage in it.

[01:26:43] Because, like, that, that to me played the individual, the, the basketball players that come out and say, look, I, I play basketball when I entertain. That is you have to give them grace. Right? But those, those some basketball players that go in there and they start into the politics and the social issues and they become these social justice warriors.

[01:26:58] Toliy: No, no. But nonetheless, even if they're saying that they're still contributing towards like, you know, fandom and like. Um, but, but I think 

[01:27:06] Eldar: that they have a chance to at least redeem themselves when they have conversations on the mic, when they're being asked questions that can be humble and they can carry themselves in a very specific way to be able to make sure that they at least, look, I'm just playing basketball.

[01:27:18] You know? I love the sport and I, I, I'm grateful for be, to be able to get paid for it, but don't think that I'm so important because I'm playing mm-hmm. Playing basketball. 

[01:27:25] Toliy: Mm-hmm. But, but still, I think because they're in the spotlight, they're, they're creating like fandom, they're creating mental illnesses.

[01:27:32] Right. A delusion Yeah. Delusion and, and, and delusions. Yeah. Whether they like, no matter how they're contributing to it. Yeah, yeah. No, no matter what route they take, they're still contributing towards it because they're gonna have those fans. Yeah. They're gonna create mentally ill kids that's gonna misunderstood, misunderstand everything.

[01:27:47] Yeah. Who grow up to be mentally ill, um, adults. Yeah. And because they're in that entertainment business, they're, they're breeding this no matter, no matter what. I, I, I definitely agree that it's better. Like, like the people that you're talking about. 

[01:28:02] Eldar: Yeah. Right. No, I think that the individuals that are there and they, and they're honest with their, who they are and why they are, and they're not boasting themselves and they're not really allowing the money or the fame to blow up their head, I think they're fine, you know, but that's not enough of them.

[01:28:18] Right. 

[01:28:19] Toliy: Yeah. Do, do you, do you think that it's possible to be in that like, world re renowned, like iconic light, but also still like, remain humble or do that Yeah. Where the person who's just good will just maybe, you know. Play at the park or just like, do it as like a hobby. Mm-hmm. Like, do, do you think that that person that like takes like takes the journey of like, this, this is the main thing and I'm gonna go on the stage and do this, that it's possible for them too, 

[01:28:49] Eldar: to be like that?

[01:28:50] Maybe. Maybe

[01:28:56] cause had a question. Yeah. 

[01:28:58] Mike: He said, so what I need to do to feel fulfilled?

[01:29:09] Eldar: How old is he? Uh, 

[01:29:11] 62. 

[01:29:12] It's 30. 

[01:29:13] That's, I would say that's your father. 30 years old. 

[01:29:16] Dre: 30 I, I would still say ask your father if you, if you don't know on that page, 

[01:29:24] Eldar: ask your father. You said, 

[01:29:25] Mike: oh, ask your father. Oh, okay. Well, to be, I think he's asking his fathers. Yeah. I think his f Yeah. 

[01:29:29] Eldar: We are his 

[01:29:30] Mike: fathers. We're the three of us.

[01:29:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:29:34] Mike: Yeah. Harris and Harris at times. Iris is the hook. Those are the best times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think like, that's a funny question. 

[01:29:44] Eldar: Well, 

[01:29:45] um, again, you know, fulfilled, right? Like, it's almost like, Hey, I want to, I want I, I want, you know, I wanna be better, you know? Well before competence the question, 

[01:29:57] Dre: huh?

[01:29:58] Only way is competence. Yes. But that's why I make the distinction. Yeah. 

[01:30:02] Eldar: How long does the competence take? Decades. There you go. Right. And I was gonna say that, right? Like, the question is what do I do in order to be fulfilled, right? It's automatic like, hey, I gotta do something to be happy or to to get pleasure.

[01:30:19] Like just the question probably would have to be first framed as what should I stop doing? You know what I mean? Hmm. To not continue on this trajectory. Mm-hmm. Right? What, what, what are some things that I'm currently doing that I should stop? Yeah. You're still driving 10 hours in the wrong direction.

[01:30:37] That's right. You're still driving blindly speeding. Yeah. Into the wrong direction. Yeah. See, 

[01:30:42] Toliy: that's interesting. It's never talked about in, in that kind of way. It's always what, you know, what, what should I do? Should I go, what should I do? 

[01:30:48] Eldar: What should I do? Not 

[01:30:49] Toliy: what should I not do? 

[01:30:50] Eldar: Correct. Like the, the que the question is really like, it's a very arrogant question.

[01:30:53] Right? Like, I agree. Yes. You know, it's like, so what do I do? You know what I mean? Like, just gimme fucking direction, you know? Like what mm-hmm. You know what I mean? There's so many things that you're currently doing that you're hurting yourself. Right. But in order to do that, in order to actually see that, the cliche statement is to slow down Right.

[01:31:12] And examine what the fuck is going on. 

[01:31:15] Toliy: You're saying that, uh, 'cause is trying to, uh, walk in the escalator the, the wrong way. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Except the escalator goes faster than hi. He's like, he's able, if it's going down faster than he's able to go up, 

[01:31:28] Eldar: go up. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So. Hmm. What are some things should I remove in order to be able to start thinking, to slow down, right?

[01:31:37] To be able to see things for what they are. 

[01:31:39] Toliy: So what, what should cause, uh, 

[01:31:41] Eldar: remove, do? What should you remove? I mean, desires, you know, 

[01:31:47] Toliy: so what do you want me to do? Just lay down and die. 

[01:31:51] Eldar: They always say that all 

[01:31:52] Toliy: because like Yeah, because Yeah. Temporarily. Yeah. 

[01:31:56] Eldar: Oh, okay. We can play this if you want. 

[01:31:57] Toliy: Yeah. Or you want me to just do nothing?

[01:32:00] Eldar: Yeah. Just stare at the wall. Yeah. Well, I mean, if, again, if you've been doing wrong things for a very long time, probably slowing down is the first step is to do nothing in order to make room for what? Examination. 

[01:32:13] Toliy: But how can I do nothing if I'm thinking about all these things? 

[01:32:18] Eldar: Well, then what is it that you actually wanna do?

[01:32:21] Toliy: Live normal, normal life, you know, 

[01:32:25] Eldar: doing 

[01:32:26] Toliy: good or, no, that's 

[01:32:26] Eldar: pretty 

[01:32:27] Toliy: good. 

[01:32:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:27] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:32:27] Eldar: He does complain like that. 

[01:32:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:32:29] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:32:30] Toliy: But live, normal, normal life like person, you look at them, they're happy. See, you then 

[01:32:33] Eldar: have to tell me what it means to live a normal life. What is the definition of normal life?

[01:32:38] Right? Because clearly you have one definition of a normal life that you've been trying to live, and for some reason it's not working for you. So clearly something is wrong, right? Or not. 

[01:32:50] Hmm. 

[01:32:50] Yeah, but what, what should I do? You see, you, you're not, you're not gonna be able to talk for him. I'm saying what he would say, he would say it, but I'm, I'm giving you the answers and you're not having a conversation with me.

[01:33:03] You have to redefine your life. Right. Your normal life. You just said, Hey, I just wanna have a normal life. What does that look like? You know, you would have to then explain to me what does a normal look like? Right. And then we have to digest all those things. 

[01:33:16] Toliy: So do you, do you think that Al also causes idea of a normal life is actually like a very, uh, 

[01:33:22] Eldar: correct.

[01:33:23] Lavish one? It could be lavish one, it could be. Yeah, it could be whatever. It can be so many different things. I don't know. You know? Yeah. It might be a life where like, like Dre said, it's like, uh, you might think that you want this, but you only cut out for this. You know what I mean? Like that, that those two things are not compatible.

[01:33:41] Toliy: So how do you, how do you figure out the, like, the gap between what you want and what you're, uh, cut out for? 

[01:33:47] Eldar: Yeah. That's a very good question. This is what you need to sit with. This is the question that you need to, uh, think about. Right? One thing we talked about is that he really likes about gaming, right?

[01:33:58] Mm-hmm. Likes playing video games. Mm-hmm. Right? But then he wants to live a normal life. Uh, a gamer for rest of your life is not a normal life. Mm-hmm. But the truth of the matter is it is nowadays. It is, yeah. It is possible to be a gamer, right? Yes. 

[01:34:14] Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:14] Right. You can be in the industry doing, I don't know, those weird things that gamers do.

[01:34:18] Yeah. You know what I mean? But they're not so weird anymore because there's a whole community 

[01:34:22] mm-hmm. 

[01:34:23] Of. Gaming area. Think wherever the fuck they thrive, these fucking gamers, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And then their own Web3 world, you know, but he's not willing to kind of maybe, um, explore that a little bit more to find his way in that world.

[01:34:39] Right. Well, yeah. I think even though it's the closest thing to what he actually likes to do, 

[01:34:43] Mike: I think those questions are always gonna be hard to answer until you actually find yourself and then learn to believe in yourself. And those are just like secondary things then it doesn't really matter what you do.

[01:34:53] Yeah. You know, like he's never gonna be able to like accept that gaming thing because you don't have any faith in yourself that you can. Yeah. But when you get to anything like 

[01:35:01] Eldar: that is even possible. No, it's not possible. Right? Because it's clashing. It's what's clashing, right? It's says love for gaming, love sitting there in front of the screen, and then the whole world's thing telling him that gaming is for losers and like that you should get a real job and live in a real world.

[01:35:17] Well, why? Right. Challenge that. Like, why, why should you? You know what I mean? But, 

[01:35:22] Toliy: but if 

[01:35:23] Eldar: you, if you are antisocial, you don't like people, like, you like the internet world, well you think you should definitely start creating your avatar and you start fucking promoting your brand out there or something like that, you know?

[01:35:33] Toliy: But do, do you think that the, um, the person who's suffering, um, uh, like obviously like they don't actually know why, for example, right? Um,

[01:35:50] I feel like when they're looking for advice. The advice that you give them has to involve like, um, like almost like hardships and like difficult things that like creates more suffering. Right. Like they, they, like you can't tell people who are suffering to go do good things. That's 

[01:36:06] Eldar: the problem with what I usually do.

[01:36:08] Right. I usually don't tell people to go over there and start employing discipline in your life and fucking grind Yes. In order to get there. But, 

[01:36:15] Toliy: but this is the, the language that 

[01:36:17] Eldar: they speak. 

[01:36:18] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. And like, I, I was, um, I was re recently in like a space I was telling you where, where, I mean, I somewhat agreed with what they were saying where like, like they could first start with discipline and then they could, um, like doing it out of like fun and like out of love is a more advanced like, uh, of 

[01:36:41] Mike: course skill.

[01:36:42] You know, when you have like a poor foundation, you could use discipline to give, to start, but Oh, no, no. You have to, you have to. Sorry. You have to use discipline to have a, to get a start. But when you have a good foundation, you don't have to use it because everything is open to you. Correct. The world is you're oyster for real.

[01:37:04] Eldar: Correct. And then you have a choice in the matter. I don't go rock climbing because I, I have to, or there's discipline involved in there. Mm-hmm. I don't go to rock climbing. I'm telling you right now, I don't. I actually like it. Yeah. And the days that I don't go rock climbing, I don't fucking go. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[01:37:24] Yeah. But what do I get from it? I get stronger arms, I get stronger back, I get more confident. I'm learning a skill. Mm-hmm. I'm proud of myself. I'm exploring new things. Yeah. I'm having fun. Yep. I'm getting all these things. Mm-hmm. Right from it as byproducts. Yep. Of the fact that I'm choosing something to do.

[01:37:49] Mm-hmm. That actually is enjoyable. Mm-hmm. Like toll's walking for example. Right now you got into that Right. Finally, where like mm-hmm. You enjoy walking. Yeah. You open your eyes, you look around, you're like, oh shit. Like, I like this neighborhood. I like that he's exploring. 

[01:38:02] Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:03] And the byproduct of that is what?

[01:38:04] He's breathing fresh air, he's losing weight, he's active. Right. And all this other stuff. 

[01:38:10] Mm-hmm.

[01:38:14] But that takes, that takes some, I guess. Yeah. Knowing yourself to get to before you can find these types of things that can, you can do. Right. But also serve as a, as byproducts. 

[01:38:28] Toliy: Yeah. It's almost like that are benefiting you mo Most people don't, don't do something for long enough to learn like anything from they, they just do something for long enough to make an assumption about it.

[01:38:38] Eldar: Yeah. You're probably right like 

[01:38:40] Toliy: that, that, that's usually like the uh, um, because like. Finding out what you don't like is, is like, I guess like just as good as finding out what you do like Yeah. 'cause like if you know that you clearly don't like this or you do it, well, that's the easy part. Something like long enough, right?

[01:38:58] Yeah. No, no, no. I don't think it's the easy part. 

[01:39:01] Eldar: Well, finding out like, 

[01:39:02] Toliy: what, what, what you don't like, because Well, no, actually that's the easy part. What? It hurts. Well, no, I feel like people have a hard time of of, of like recognizing the pain. Well, yeah, it can hurt, but they may not know why or how or like, 

[01:39:16] Eldar: mm.

[01:39:16] Yeah. 

[01:39:17] Toliy: From, from what actually rec recognizing and saying like, Hey, like, doing this does not serve me. 

[01:39:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:39:23] Toliy: That's like a, that's great, right? 'cause now like, um, it, it's, it's the same thing about like sharing like, um, like, like if, if, if, if you have a particular truth that you're operating on, and let's just say that you think it's the truth, right?

[01:39:39] You sharing it without either you're gonna speak with somebody ignorant who's not gonna be able to explain themselves and not gonna be right and going to say, I ignorant things. And eventually probably like, want to get out of the conversation. Well, like, then you're, you're just like that, that's great because now you like, you're just upholding your truth.

[01:39:58] That like, you're, you're, you're kind of like, you almost helping yourself validate, like, right. Like what you know or like do Yeah. So like, that's, that's great. Like, you're, you, you, you're right. You're, you're on the right path. You're doing well. 

[01:40:12] Yeah. 

[01:40:12] Um, you, you obviously saw a glimpse of like what the, the not right path looks like through, through this conversation.

[01:40:18] Oh, that's great. Yeah. Or maybe you meet somebody a bit wiser than, than you and smarter and they're doing something better, and you also then share, and then maybe you look a little stupid in the process, but nonetheless, like, well now you found out like what's actually true and good 

[01:40:32] Eldar: too. Yeah. 

[01:40:33] Toliy: So it's like you, you win no, no matter what.

[01:40:35] But I, I think there's a lot more when, when there's these things done, there's a lot more just assuming and guessing versus actually testing and, and validating, right? Mm-hmm. Like prop, like, it's like saying that like, like, you know, like when like, um, um, like a drug has to pass, I guess, like, you know, FDA approval or something, right?

[01:40:59] Or like, they have to, like, they have to study it for a long time, right? 

[01:41:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:41:04] Toliy: They can maybe like make some early assumptions or like Yeah. Make some good guesses or some educated guesses, right? Or like mm-hmm. Some initial studies, but, um, like how do they find out later, after like 20 years for example, that like, Hey, this actually, oh, you've been taking this, 

[01:41:19] Eldar: actually it's gonna cost this cancer.

[01:41:21] Yeah. Call us. We'll sue them. Yeah. Right. 

[01:41:23] Toliy: So, so it's like things need to get studied 

[01:41:25] Eldar: for data 

[01:41:26] Toliy: a long time, time long enough Yeah. For sound conclusions to, to come out of it 

[01:41:30] Eldar: and still, yeah. Right. Most scientists, right, or doctors, whatever, right. Will leave room for error. And that's the wise thing to do too, right?

[01:41:37] Like, okay, look, we started all this, but. There's certain variables that we didn't account for, yada, yada, yada. So be careful, you know what I mean? If you fall into that category, you as might be grass. 

[01:41:50] Toliy: Yeah. It was 

[01:41:51] Eldar: don't see what, yeah. It was like, 

[01:41:52] Toliy: uh, growing up like, milk is healthy for, for kids. Good. Yeah.

[01:41:56] Then it was like bad. Good. Then there was like almond milk and oat milk, and then now it's back to being good, right? Yeah. Like, it's like there's like a, like a seesaw of like what growing, what's going on here. Growing up 

[01:42:07] Eldar: Pluto was, 

[01:42:08] Dre: uh, a, a 

[01:42:09] Eldar: moon, a 

[01:42:10] Dre: star, a moon of moon, a moon of no. Pluto was a planet. And then it got demoted to a dwarf planet.

[01:42:16] No, no, no, no, no. Before it was a planet Dre. Ah, I think, when was that? Think it was a moon. Uh, they thought it was a moon Of Neptune. Yes. Of Neptune. Yeah. Because it crosses the, the Yes. But then they realized, but then they gave 

[01:42:25] Eldar: it to the planet and then they downgraded to dwarf planet. Correct. You see? Yeah.

[01:42:29] What's going on here? Like, is there absolute truth or is it just, you know, we just revise as we go. 

[01:42:37] Toliy: Yeah. That's also why that like, um, one, one of the best skills that, that you can have is not to adapt ideolog that are not absolute truths 

[01:42:49] Eldar: or make conclusions and keep, keep it open, keep, and I think keep it open.

[01:42:52] Soccer, going back to Socrates, I think he had that ability, right when he said, look, I know one thing is that I know nothing. And that's he opened and left the door open to continue to learn. 

[01:43:02] Yeah. 

[01:43:03] You know, and I think that's the wisest thing to do. Right. He might, he probably knew more than anyone, you know, in that sense.

[01:43:10] Right. But he was wise enough to know that like, look, I'm not gonna make any conclusions because I'd like to continue to learn. There's a vast amount of knowledge to be gotten. You know, and one thing he was sure about is that he knew that he knew nothing. 

[01:43:26] Yeah. He 

[01:43:27] definitely knew how to ask questions.

[01:43:30] Yeah. And I think he had fun. He had fun. Yeah. I think he had fun. They, they said that he was a big troll. Yeah. He was fucking around with people. Yeah. You know, and people used to get pissed at him. Yeah. Rightfully so. Yeah. Rightfully so. Yeah. You know, where you co you know, you living your life. I mean, what cousins not pissed at us, right?

[01:43:47] Yeah. Right. With the way even the questions are being asked. Right. It's like, yo, what the fuck? You know what I mean? Like, ah, you know, you remember 

[01:43:55] Yeah. 

[01:43:55] Listen to, listen back to those episodes, those were great. You know, these are all the different dogma. Right. Wrong perceptions has been instilled in him for many years, and now they took form a physical form of suffering, of walking, talking, suffering.

[01:44:12] Toliy: Why, why do you think that? Like, like a person, like for example, like 'cause who's like, you know, right now he's asking questions or like, you know, wondering particular things. Why, why do you think that there isn't that like. Active daily persistence. Like, what, what? Or, or like, you know, oh, either in cousin's case or philosophical 

[01:44:29] Eldar: inquiry, you have to have stamina for it.

[01:44:32] Toliy: Yeah. So like, so why do you think that? Mental stamina. So, uh, okay then two questions. Why do you think that that kind of persistence, um, like, like people don't, don't have stamina for it. And then two, what do you do to build stamina so that you can have that active persistence? 

[01:44:47] Eldar: Well, we talk about building thick skin.

[01:44:49] That's a big one. That's huge. Building thick skin is all about this. They having the ability to be criticized, questioned, and, uh, made fun of, right? In order to be able to withstand in the fire for longer period of time because each conversation hurts so much because of what? Because you've attached yourself arrogantly and now you have to let go of it.

[01:45:10] And that ego is not trying to do that. 

[01:45:12] Toliy: Okay. So you're saying that people don't, don't have the stamina to ask questions on a persistent way 'cause it hurts too much. 'cause it hurts too. Too much hurts the ego too much. Okay. And to build up that stamina, you have to, 

[01:45:27] Eldar: you have to, you know, slowly kind of, you know, put yourself in the fire, you know, build a thick skin, realize and start seeing things for what they are.

[01:45:34] That when you do put yourself in the fire, you realize that, like, Mike realized that like, we don't want bad for him. We want good for him. 

[01:45:40] Toliy: So, so, so then what, what, what you're saying it's almost like a, uh, conversion, right? Of like, um, yeah. In, in the early stages. Um, you're saying like. Put yourself in the fire.

[01:45:55] But the way that you build like the, um, the stamina for it is realizing that it's not fire, right? Mm-hmm. But it's like the safest and best thing ever, right? 

[01:46:03] Eldar: So you're not building stamina. You, you're building a liking to that, what you're experiencing. When he started the podcast, he said, what? 

[01:46:11] Toliy: Ah, I'm not talking.

[01:46:12] This is like a take me home. By the end, 

[01:46:14] Eldar: by by by week eight when he was here, he said, yo, I look forward to the podcast. Why? He came to realize that this is a safe space, quote unquote, whatever the fuck they say about safe spaces nowadays. Right? You realize that we're not here to hurt him. We're trying to understand.

[01:46:28] And when we together collectively understand and come to find the truth about life in ourselves, it feels good. It feels good. So, so you, so you think that like, so over time you are like, wait a second, I like this. Like, I wanna do more of it. That's why you become a persistent fucker, you know what I mean?

[01:46:44] To ask a lot of questions and you wanna be a pest. 'cause you, you realize that like, this stuff feels good. I wanna change my life for the better. Why not do it more? It becomes a very natural thing. And the ego and pride and the arrogance and all that stuff is now subsided. It's like, yo, come the fuck down.

[01:46:58] I want to learn. You know? So, and you become the beginning, become a wondering child again. The child that asks the questions, you know, when they're, how old the kids, when they start questions you doc, when they 

[01:47:07] Dre: start asking questions. 

[01:47:08] Eldar: Yeah. Like, Hey, why this? What's this? Curious? I think around two, two, right?

[01:47:12] Dre: When they have enough vocabulary, there you go. 

[01:47:14] Eldar: When they start asking like, how's the world? Like, they want mom and dad to explain this. Why this, why that, why they, they're looking for answers, looking for questions. So it almost becomes that. Living, you become a child again for, for that moment in order to relearn the world in a different perspective.

[01:47:27] Toliy: But his attitude towards, in the beginning, for example, is bad because what he has, um, like 

[01:47:33] Eldar: you are attacking everything he believed and lived for all his life. But Andrew Tate to him is, is God. 

[01:47:39] Dre: Who? Harris? No, my cousin. All those cousins. Yeah. From 

[01:47:43] Eldar: Greece and Harris too. I mean, like, you know, these people subscribe to these, to these, to these losers.

[01:47:49] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And now I have to tell him, he asked me the other day, he goes, because you, you think this guy's an idiot. Right? I'm like, this is the big one of the biggest idiots of them all. You know what I mean? Like, I have to like reiterate myself and tell him like, yo, this guy has no idea what he's talking about.

[01:48:04] You know what I mean? 

[01:48:05] Yeah. 

[01:48:07] He, he, he, you know, my cousin's suffering, uh, and I'm a proponent of talk therapy. Go talk, have a conversation, release all the shit's. Go to therapist. You know, Andrew Tate is sitting there saying, therapist is the worst thing that you can do for yourself. Go punch somebody in the face.

[01:48:22] The fuck you stupid. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's ridiculous. He's trying to make those barbaric men that, uh, Dre was talking about. He's trying to take us to the caveman days. Yeah. You know what I mean? Are you an idiot? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's his form of like whatever it is that he's trying to peddle, like mm-hmm.

[01:48:41] Be tough and all this other shit. The fuck. 

[01:48:43] Yeah. 

[01:48:44] He's the biggest punk of them all. He's the biggest simp, even though he is, he's preaching non simp shit. Mm-hmm. He's the, the king simp. 

[01:48:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:48:52] Eldar: I'm telling you, of course. You know, and my cousin is subscribing to this shit, you know, because he has a nice watch and the cigar in his mouth.

[01:49:02] Mm-hmm. 

[01:49:04] Dre: What, you know, that like, fuck manosphere dating coaches, they're the biggest sipps of the mall because they Yes. Put, they put women in front of everything else in life. Yes. And they, they act like, oh, women are, it's all about that. But, but actually they're, they're, they're the most affected by it.

[01:49:20] And they're putting that as a such a priority because they had the, and ironically, the biggest problem with those in that area, ironically, if you were just, they're living your life and you're like, okay, good. And then you're actually good with that. You wouldn't, you wouldn't be. So No. Putting that at the front and center obsessed about it.

[01:49:35] Yes. That's the the thing you, early on you can see It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. 

[01:49:39] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:49:44] Yeah. So 

[01:49:47] that's why it hurts, bro. I have we attacking all their idols hundred chase's. No good. LeBron James, no good. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, who else is he? Is he like, oh, he said, oh, those fucking streamers, sacred 

[01:50:00] Dre: cows. Right. Attacking sacred cows. 

[01:50:03] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Of course it's gonna hurt.

[01:50:08] Now it's like, yo, like my whole world view has to go upside down. You know? Upside. 

[01:50:13] Toliy: But why, why don't they like, um, like look up online or try to figure out like what, what they would do in their situation. Like, why, why don't they like, you know, like a ask them that 

[01:50:26] Eldar: they can't, they don't have access to them.

[01:50:29] Toliy: No. But Andrew Taylor is constantly telling you like, what, what to do. He has like a whole course, right? Well, he 

[01:50:33] Eldar: does listen to it. That's why like it's something's not sitting. Yeah. Why doesn't he just, yeah. Why is he asking? Something's 

[01:50:37] Toliy: not sitting. Why, why doesn't he just follow what? 

[01:50:39] Eldar: I don't know. We have to ask him that.

[01:50:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:50:41] Eldar: You know, because let us know. Let us know why you wanna follow Andrew Tate and not your own cousin. Yeah. Well, I also don't want him to follow me. Like, I want him to use his own faculty. At the end of the day. I, I think that, you know, when you start to think you actually become your own man, an actual man.

[01:50:59] You know what I mean? Where no man can tell you what to do actually. You know what I mean? And that's what you, you want autonomous individual who has the ability to fucking think do. Yeah. But see, you're, you're, you're 

[01:51:10] Toliy: trying to promote thinking, you know? 

[01:51:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:12] Toliy: And, um, promoting think thinking doesn't sound like, uh, sexy.

[01:51:17] You know? It's like a, 

[01:51:19] Eldar: I mean, it's a, like he said, it's a fucking decades long journey. I agree with him. Yeah. That sometimes that's, maybe it's not in its lifetime. Maybe you fucking have to try again next life. 

[01:51:26] Toliy: Yeah. That, that's also why, like, uh, material materialistic, like achievements right, are like shiny and they're like tangible, I guess, right?

[01:51:38] Yeah. But, um, like, I mean, we, we spoke about this many times, but how, how do you explain to somebody like, Hey, you know, if you do this, like you're gonna get self-respect. 

[01:51:50] Eldar: Yeah. You gonna get 

[01:51:50] Toliy: dignity. Yeah. You are gonna have character 

[01:51:53] like, thanks skin. They, 

[01:51:55] they can't, like, they, they can't value that. They can't envision what you're preaching for them to like do, or like, they, they're not tangible objects.

[01:52:02] See, they don't understand what Lamborghini Yeah. Like, they don't understand what the actual best things are, you know? So it's like to work on those kind, like Yeah. To make the commitment to do something for yourself that's gonna be good. That you don't understand. 

[01:52:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:17] Toliy: That, that to me is like the, um, because like when you're in that process, like, yeah.

[01:52:22] You, you have to, you're like, you're working hard and you're suffering towards something that you don't understand, but you're still persisting in doing it. And I think that that, like, that whole process in itself is what builds the character that, like all, all those kinds of things. Yeah. You know, like, you actually doing that so you're not actually like, just you doing the process gets you what you need 

[01:52:48] from, from 

[01:52:48] Eldar: it.

[01:52:49] Hmm hmm. Yeah. 

[01:52:53] Toliy: You know? Yeah. But not many people are, um, willing to like, go through that g gauntlet to achieve something that's not tangible and something that they, they don't like understand why, why are you gonna go through all this, all these attacks and suffering and like, uncovering and doing all these things.

[01:53:11] It's much easier to strive towards a number or like an item. Right. Or like a, yeah. Oh, 

[01:53:16] Eldar: 100%. 

[01:53:17] Toliy: Or like a particular like, yeah. S uh, situation. 

[01:53:20] Eldar: Yeah. Like a clear path 

[01:53:21] Toliy: you can buy into, you know, a nice house and a car. 

[01:53:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:53:26] Toliy: A like steady job, 

[01:53:28] Eldar: you know, make this amount, work this much, get this. Yeah. Simple 

[01:53:32] Toliy: like that.

[01:53:33] That's a very simple, 

[01:53:33] Eldar: simple. Well, but our attempt here, at least at this podcast, is to find the most simplest terms and words in order to describe what we're talking about and make it, not make it, but I mean, accurately depict it. 

[01:53:44] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like the simpler terms that are like used, the less, but like, I, I like, I think more people are attracted towards complicated, like crazy.

[01:53:56] Like the simpler things make it less non believable. 

[01:53:59] Eldar: I 

[01:53:59] Toliy: agree with that a little bit, maybe. Yes. You know, like, because 

[01:54:01] Eldar: the shit is backwards nowadays. Yeah. When 

[01:54:02] Toliy: you give people basic steps to do Yeah. They're thinking like you're, you're trying to scam them or something's crazy, you know? Yeah. I told, I told, 

[01:54:09] Eldar: I told them, get star, you want fast internet?

[01:54:10] Get Starling, pay $30 a month. Enjoy yourself and play video games. Like 

[01:54:14] what? That's the answer.

[01:54:21] Yeah. Yeah. Like, 

[01:54:24] Toliy: yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there, there's some kind of like thing that people are attracted to, like, you know, something that sounds complicated and like crazy almost, where like those simple things like, oh yeah, just go for a walk. Or like, Hey, just like think, you 

[01:54:40] Mike: know. No, but I don't think that they're attracted to it.

[01:54:42] They just, they arrogantly believe that, oh, what you're suggesting is not. It's not gonna get me there. Yeah. Yeah. The arrogance 

[01:54:49] Toliy: is 

[01:54:49] Mike: telling 'em that. 

[01:54:50] Toliy: Yeah. But a, but like their arrogance can't hop over something that they completely for sure don't know. 

[01:54:58] Eldar: Right? Yeah. Correct. They can't 

[01:55:00] Toliy: like that, that's why they can't act that way towards like, um, like that's also why that when, when like influencers or those people that are trying to convince people to do things, they speak a very particular way.

[01:55:12] Right. Well, if you pay attention to how they speak Yeah. Like Yeah. Say like, have all this for just a dollar, you know, or like, yeah. Come like, attend this course and you're gonna get something that no one else is gonna get. 

[01:55:22] Eldar: Yeah. Some secret magic thing. 

[01:55:24] Toliy: You're gonna get this formula. Yeah. It's a five step formula, you know, to like, and people are like, I wanna get this formula.

[01:55:31] Eldar: Yeah. Fountain of youth, 

[01:55:34] Toliy: you know? So then they, they continue to buy into these kinds of concepts that they can't like, uh, comprehend. Can, can you make it a bit more confusing for, for a cause? Like, 

[01:55:44] Eldar: I can't, that'd be wrongdoing. Mm-hmm. Hmm. No. Yeah. The thing is you can't, it's like, can 

[01:55:52] Toliy: can you just say like, hey, like, you know, like, I had like a, God came to me and he told me exactly what you need to do.

[01:55:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:59] Toliy: And then you started talking about these visions that happen, but a 30 step 

[01:56:01] Eldar: program. 

[01:56:03] Toliy: Yeah. And 

[01:56:04] Eldar: you have to go to the desert. 

[01:56:05] Toliy: Yeah. Like, hey, like we're, we're gonna make a plan for you 'cause, but it's, it's gonna have, you know, like, uh, 16,432 steps to, to follow. 

[01:56:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:56:18] Toliy: You know, 

[01:56:19] Eldar: but those, like, you wanna dress it up a little bit.

[01:56:21] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:56:25] Toliy: Because then when people, like, I, the thing is, 

[01:56:26] Eldar: I can't sell it if I don't believe in it, you know? Yeah. But you 

[01:56:29] Toliy: can like, you know. 

[01:56:31] Eldar: No, I don't wanna trick anyone. 

[01:56:32] Toliy: You don't wanna trick 'em up. Okay, fine. 

[01:56:34] Eldar: I, I don't think I wanna trick anyone. I don't think that's what we're here for. Sure. I think that the realistic thing is that, like, the truth of the matter is you want to better yourself.

[01:56:41] Uh, you have to re-listen all almost to 200 episodes of Dennis Rock's podcast. 

[01:56:44] Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:45] Go, 

[01:56:46] yeah. 

[01:56:46] Three hours each. 

[01:56:48] Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:49] You're not gonna get anywhere until you do what? 

[01:56:54] Mike: That's a lot of hours, bro. 

[01:56:55] Eldar: Yeah. Or go to school, right? Yeah. Study philosophy. Yeah. You know, finish your doctor's, you know what I mean?

[01:56:59] Like, go put in actual work. Yeah. You know, become someone like really study, you know, what do they say, 10,000 hours into some shit, or whatever the fucking thing is, you know?

[01:57:12] Until then, like, yeah. Like, uh, I mean, I think you've earned the suffering that you probably are experiencing, you know, because of the conclusions that you've made and how you're 

[01:57:22] defending delusions in your life.

[01:57:31] So that's why I think Socrates 

[01:57:33] was so adamant about yo know yourself, know thyself. 

[01:57:37] Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:38] This is very important. You wanna have a good life. What's a good life? This is not the life that my cousin or your dad or anybody else that's not doing an examination. Mm-hmm. On leading. Mm-hmm. It's turmoil. 

[01:57:51] Yeah.

[01:57:52] They're bouncing off the walls. Left, right, left, right, left, right. Mm-hmm. Constantly, you know, A-D-D-A-D-D, all those conditions, you know, that's just a chaos in your, in your mind that's not filed, nothing's filed properly. You know, you are all, all over the place. You have no direction, you have no purpose and every influencer just kicking you back and forth.

[01:58:14] Mm-hmm. Um, kicking your emotional, selling your emotional attention. 

[01:58:18] Yeah. 

[01:58:19] Oh, this guy subscribed here, buy this, do that. You 

[01:58:22] know what I'm saying?

[01:58:28] They make money off of you. Mm-hmm. You know, 

[01:58:32] you don't even know. And then you rave them for it. You rate them. 

[01:58:37] Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:39] You rave about them. 

[01:58:40] Yeah. 

[01:58:41] And then when you look, you lay down at night, you don't have a pot to piss in. You really didn't do it. It didn't amount to anything. You're not happy. You start reflecting like, what the fuck?

[01:58:53] I'm depressed. Mm-hmm. What do I do? Who am I?

[01:59:02] Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, so, so suffering is always the 

[01:59:06] fucking, uh, prescription. 

[01:59:09] Suffer 

[01:59:09] more. Yeah, 

[01:59:12] you go to the doctor, the doctor's sitting here, right? Doc, you know, this hurts, that hurts, this hurts, that hurts. You know, doc asks you what kinda lifestyle you living. Oh, I drink, I smoke. I fucking do this. I don't eat healthy, you know, I'm fat.

[01:59:26] I don't exercise, you know? All right. You know, here's the pills. That's the easy way out. No explanation or nothing, you know what I mean? Like, 

[01:59:34] the fuck, 

[01:59:36] stop doing this, stop doing that. You're like, ah, I don't take it seriously. You know, I, I can't do this. I can't change my lifestyle. I do this because I'm in pain.

[01:59:43] So just relieve this pain right here for me. Here's the quick 

[01:59:45] Mike: wrap. The doctor gives you the prescription. Yeah. Because, you know, the, it helps you to get over the things that you don't value. Yeah. It's like a quick solution. 

[01:59:56] Toliy: But they also, like, they're not like, um, they, they get, I guess like the system, if you wanna call, it doesn't feel like they have a scalable or understandable way as to actually how to actually help people, right?

[02:00:08] Like, if you're, if you have like your, your mind's running, you have crazy thoughts, they're gonna sedate you, right? Yeah. 

[02:00:16] Eldar: I went to the doctor, I said, yo ion in my head, doc, you want me to send you a psychiatrist, prescribe you some pills? I'm said, what? Hmm. He's got, he's gotta go to the next client. Five minutes later he's got no time to sit down with me and say, of course Elder, what's going on?

[02:00:28] Mike: Well, there's not enough doctors in the world to, for every single uh, sick, sick individual too. That's true too. We're all, everybody's sick 

[02:00:35] Eldar: and there's money to be made and there's money made. Yeah. You know what I'm 

[02:00:37] Mike: saying? They just wanna put you back into the like, you know, into the wheel. Yeah. So you can function at least.

[02:00:42] Yeah. Instead of being depressed or like, you know, suicidal, whatever. 

[02:00:45] Toliy: Yeah. That's why like tho tho, yeah. Like those pills and all that is like, they're like, I don't got time for you. I also don't want you to go and like bomb this next school school, but it's school shooting. But it's also, you're gonna find a doctor 

[02:01:00] Mike: that's suitable for you.

[02:01:01] If you don't have time for you, why do I gotta have time for you? Here's the pill. Fuck off. Right. 

[02:01:05] Eldar: Yeah. That's true 

[02:01:05] Mike: too. If you have time for you, you go, okay, how do I actually get help? You go to psychologist, 

[02:01:09] Eldar: psychiatrist, 

[02:01:09] Mike: therapy, right? 

[02:01:10] Eldar: Yeah. But you go to the general things because that's a society purchase.

[02:01:14] Yeah. You go to the general doctor and 

[02:01:16] Toliy: Yeah. What if the doctor like gave you a choice? Like, hey, like I know you have a lot of running thoughts, like, you know, you have two options. I can either prescribe you something and you take pills for the rest of your life, or, um, send you to college. I'm gonna send Yeah, no, I'm gonna send you to a, uh, therapist.

[02:01:34] Mm-hmm. And you have to go talk to them one once a week for the next five years. 

[02:01:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:01:40] Toliy: You know? 

[02:01:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:44] Toliy: Pill sound. 

[02:01:46] Mike: Much easier. Yeah. You got bills to pay, man. You got kids to feed, you know, you got no time for this shit. You got cars to drive and houses to buy. 

[02:01:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:52] Mike: And you got time for that kinda shit. 

[02:01:54] Eldar: And Andrew t told you that therapy is bad.

[02:01:56] Yeah. Yeah. The therapy is for punks. All right guys, final thoughts. What do we got? Know thyself. Again, recognizing your own ignorance, your own limitations, and the true nature through constant self-examination, which is the foundation for achieving wisdom and virtue. Hmm. 

[02:02:18] Mike: Yeah. Well, was Socrates onto something or what?

[02:02:20] When you said no yourself? What it, first thing it made me think about is for the first, I don't know, 15, maybe more, maybe less years of our lives, we know ourselves through our parents, right? Mm-hmm. And like, like Dre said, they installed a lot of their own things Yeah. On us. And things that we probably, if examined, we probably wouldn't want, you know, the bad stuff.

[02:02:49] For sure. Only when you start examining. Only when you start examining. Yeah. You're like, what the fuck? So I, I think that's like a big thing to really know yourself is to understand the scope. I don't know if to understand it, but is well, at least what I thought is like you really gotta understand that you fighting against things that you not even on your radar.

[02:03:06] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[02:03:07] Mike: got problems that are not even on your radar. They've been caring for multiple decades, you know? Yeah. So. I think that's pretty sick, but it's also very interesting. Like, but once you uncover them and you start uncovering more, that's the true like, uh, salvation to really getting to know yourself.

[02:03:26] Yeah. 'cause now you're actually getting to know yourself, not a program that was installed on you. Yeah. Not to sound like in a computer sense, but like something that your parents installed and you're not knowing any better and you're carrying and not knowing any better. 

[02:03:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:03:38] Mike: But once you start knowing better, then you really get to know yourself.

[02:03:42] So be stupid as much as possible, as fast as possible. Mm-hmm. Right. That's like my advice for myself and mm-hmm. And, uh, others. And because, so 

[02:03:57] Toliy: yeah, I would say that like as far as what, what I would recommend maybe for cause or, or just for people who wanna change, change this kind of things, is that like, um,

[02:04:10] um, I would recommend for them to, in like, to buy in as much as they can in, in like, um, themselves versus buying into like, others, you know? And like, why people I think idolize others or like look up to others in that kind of way is because like, they probably don't have like, like if you, you wanna call it faith, they don't have faith in themselves.

[02:04:34] Mm-hmm. So they need to have faith in someone else to do something for them or to change something for them. Now, that's not to say that like that you should just like, you know, buy into what you like, think only, or do, but I'm saying more, more, more of like, um, like you have all the tools, you have all like the, uh, the ability to learn and to understand and to apply a lot of like these concepts and these things.

[02:05:00] Um, but you should, you should also share them, um, with, with, with maybe people that, um, have like some things I guess figured out May maybe or something, or some, some people that you can bounce these kind of things up against. But like, you have to, um, I, I think it's great to have someone to, to like to check your work, you know, and to check you, you know, but you have to like invest in yourself and you have to buy into your, you like yourself.

[02:05:29] Like you have to invest into yourself versus continuing to, um, like wait for something to happen. 'cause like nothing is gonna happen. 

[02:05:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:05:38] Toliy: Like there, like no, no change is g is gonna just happen. Like no, no portal's gonna open. Mm-hmm. You know, as, 'cause as always saying, you know, like not nothing's gonna act actually change.

[02:05:50] Mm-hmm. Until you actually put a concentrated effort to change it yourself. You're the only one that's gonna be able to impact yourself in that kind of way. 

[02:06:00] Eldar: Yeah. And that begins the process of empowerment. 

[02:06:02] Toliy: Yeah. And I think that as you feel stronger about yourself and your change, you buy much less into.

[02:06:09] External world there, the external world and into celebrities and society, and you start buying into yourself and what you have to offer and who you are. Yeah. And you start to value like, you know, character and like, um, um, doing the right thing and 

[02:06:26] Eldar: yeah. Standing behind what you believe, standing behind 

[02:06:28] Toliy: it.

[02:06:28] And, and, and then you also have a natural desire to help others behind it. Like, like, like after it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think always like when your cup is full or it's full, that time you give back or you have a natural desire to just like, you don't want that just like extraness to just like fade into abyss.

[02:06:45] You wanna give it back, you know, and help help others. 

[02:06:50] Eldar: Yeah. Like Dre said C one, B one. What? 

[02:06:54] Dre: Yeah. C one. Do one, teach one. 

[02:06:56] Eldar: There you go. 

[02:06:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:06:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:06:59] Toliy: So you might have to first C one 'cause 

[02:07:03] Eldar: Yeah. C one. Yeah. 

[02:07:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:07:05] Eldar: Yeah. I agree with what you guys are saying. And my final thoughts, obviously, you know, I mean, I agree with Socrates, right?

[02:07:10] Socrates saying, I think that he definitely left some gold nuggets of wisdom for, for, for of us all. For all of us, you know? Mm-hmm. To be able to 

[02:07:20] Toliy: pick up, 

[02:07:21] Eldar: yeah. Pick up the pieces and, and really, you know, uh, inquire within ourselves. 

[02:07:26] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I, I, I, I told you this I think like months ago, um, but like, it, it's still like, it always fascinates me that like.

[02:07:35] You know, these things were all talked about like thousands of years ago sitting there. 

[02:07:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:41] Toliy: All this stuff has already been discussed. 

[02:07:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:43] Toliy: And like, it's not like Sure. Like it's mainstream, but not mainstream still. 

[02:07:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:48] Toliy: You know, and like so many answers to so many questions and problems 

[02:07:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:52] Toliy: Are just there that were talked about thousands of years ago.

[02:07:55] We're not talking about five years ago or 10 years ago. Yeah. We're talking about thousands. 

[02:07:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:08:01] Toliy: And most people have not picked up what is free available and left. And with current technology like this, like, like it's free money, you know, it's like, uh, yeah. Like that's gold. Yeah. Like, may, may, may, maybe like that.

[02:08:15] That's what they were talking about in Amer, that America is paved with gold. Right. That like you have the freedom to look up all this information and have access to all this information. 

[02:08:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:08:24] Toliy: And like the streets are paved with gold in, in that kind of way. Right. Um, so yeah, it always baffles me how, like, I cannot believe that they were talking about this two, like 2000 years ago.

[02:08:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:08:35] Toliy: How is that possible? And people still can't, can't 

[02:08:39] Eldar: just take what, what, what they left. Well, you can't say, you know, we don't, I mean some people definitely do. I mean, obviously some, 

[02:08:45] Toliy: but, but, but it's like, it, it's not like the, like the main, the masses. Yeah. I don't think the 

[02:08:49] Mike: evolution is like a slow process too.

[02:08:51] It is a so process. We were just, uh. Think about what was happening in World War a couple years ago. They were doing, oh, it's happening 

[02:08:57] Eldar: right now in Ukraine. Yeah. There's World War. It's, you know, there's wars happening right now where people are chopping each other up. Like, for what? Like crazy shit, you know?

[02:09:04] Yeah. We are over on one side of the world, we're fucking doing autonomous driving and robots on the other hand, we're still killing each other. Yeah. Like, so, like, what are disparity? Like, you know, and obviously, you know, we, our streets might be pave with gold because we have access to, you know, the informational world mm-hmm.

[02:09:19] Of information and, you know, we have free speech and all this other shit. You can't even go on the internet in some countries. Yeah. You can't even have, uh, clean water in some, in some other ones. So like Yeah. The Maslow hierarchy of needs there, you know, like they're, they're below the fucking safety level, you know?

[02:09:36] Yeah, 

[02:09:36] Toliy: yeah. So, so, so, I mean the, like the countries and the areas that do have access to these amazing teachings that were like 2000 years ago, they should be advancing very fast. 

[02:09:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:09:49] Toliy: You know, then Yeah. Like find the people that don't, don't have the access, but you know, like we have the access. Yeah. And it, it, it's still not looked upon as like, like, it's like it's all looked like it's, it, it's still looked upon in strange ways.

[02:10:05] It's not looked upon as like, yeah. Wow. Like this is like equivalent to like the Bible, right. Or like Yeah. To, to like, like the, the greatest thing ever. 

[02:10:14] Mike: Yeah. But everything is going to according to plan. Right. It is. Who's plan? The design. Design, we just talked about this. Yeah. Skip the class. Like it's, everything's happening.

[02:10:25] It's supposed to happen the way it's happening, the design, you know? Yeah. So like, yeah. Those, this has been around for thousands of years, but 

[02:10:32] Eldar: well, even example he said about, you know, the fact that thousands of years ago, you know 

[02:10:37] Yeah. 

[02:10:37] The reproduction and the way we were producing who produced Yeah. And who passed on the jeans were this.

[02:10:42] Mm-hmm. 

[02:10:43] And the, the design and the continues to do, it's, the equilibrium is still there. 

[02:10:47] Yeah. 

[02:10:47] And everything is exactly where it's supposed to be. Of course. Whether you like it or not. 

[02:10:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:10:51] Eldar: What's that? God, God's 

[02:10:53] Mike: design, that's God, that's the universe. Whatever you wanna name it. 

[02:10:56] Eldar: Yeah. You know, so, yeah. It's true.

[02:10:59] But yeah, my final thoughts on this is that Yeah. Because, um, you know, if you think that something is actually wrong, you're suffering. I think that, you know, take your time and actually find out, because I think it is, something is wrong. 'cause you know, not just in your life. I think in, you know, in general, I think a lot of people got it wrong, you know, and you ought to go out there and find out what, what did they get right and what did we get wrong?

[02:11:25] And if you really, really are serious about this inquiry, I think you'll be able to find yourself within it. 

[02:11:30] Mm-hmm. 

[02:11:32] Within this journey of finding out, how does that journey look? Cause Well, it can look in many different ways. My journey looked at, as, you know, I was also depressed when I was a teen, you know what I mean?

[02:11:42] And partied and hung out too much and did stupid shit. And then I ran into a fucking philosophy class. You know, I, you know, my mom gave me a book, Anastasia, to read. Right. Like, there was some things that happened where then I was like, whoa. Mm-hmm. You know, my mind exploded. I was like, yo, wait a second.

[02:11:57] There's different ways to live. 

[02:11:58] Yeah. 

[02:11:59] Not the way I'm feeling and what I'm experiencing. Yeah. And I, and I discovered a new world of possibilities. 

[02:12:05] Toliy: Yeah. Like us is sitting there and like a, uh, paid for apartment. Yeah. It's got all the time in the world. 

[02:12:10] Eldar: Yeah. Fuck. Exactly. 

[02:12:13] Toliy: It should be nonstop, uh, reading things.

[02:12:15] Yeah. Read, read, reading and saying, what, what's next? What's 

[02:12:18] Eldar: going on? What's next? Yeah. What's going on? You know? So go out there and take that seriously. If you don't take it seriously, then, then all the pain that's coming your way is deserving and earned. 

[02:12:28] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:12:29] Eldar: You know, don't cry, you know. But those are my final thoughts, Dre.

[02:12:33] Thank you so much for coming. Do you have any final thoughts on the subject? 

[02:12:37] Dre: No. 

[02:12:37] Eldar: Good. Good discussion. No. All right. Well said. Awesome. Alright. Thank you again guys. This was great as always.