208. Fear

What if most of the fear controlling your life is complete bullshit you made up?

Are you a pinball jumping from one anxiety to another without even realizing it? In this episode, the Dennis Rox crew—Eldar, Katherine, Mike, and Toliy—break down the invisible "veil" of fear that acts as a handicap you might not even know you're wearing.

We explore the concept of limiting beliefs and "blind contracts" we sign with ourselves as children, often as a form of ego protection that eventually turns into a self-made prison. From Mike's "no courage" hat on the basketball court to Katherine's anxious driving, we dive deep into how automated thinking prevents self-actualization.

Key Takeaways from the "Dennis Rox" Inner Circle:

• The Illusion of Protection: Why your fears aren't actually keeping you safe—they're protecting your ego from the shame of failure.
• Automated vs. Conscious Mind: How to spot the difference between learned behaviors and your true identity.
• The "Final Boss" Mentality: Recognizing when you've reached the cliff and why you must "shit or get off the pot" to move forward.
• Knowledge vs. Wisdom: Why knowing the secret isn't enough—you have to "do the moves" to get the results.

Most Insightful Moment: "Knowledge is knowing, but wisdom is doing." — Mike

Are you ready to stop watching from the sidelines and finally shoot the ball? Join us as we challenge the logic of our anxieties and start the process of unsubscribing from the fears that no longer serve us.

Ready to stop being held hostage by invisible bullshit?

Listen now. Your future self is already pissed you waited this long.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, you are a pinball jumping from one anxiety to another, to another, to another, to another, to another. Yeah. But you don't even know, 

[00:00:06] you don't even know that this is happening to you. Yes. 

[00:00:08] Katherine: Welcome to my life. 

[00:00:09] Eldar: Yeah. So you're constantly on edge. 

[00:00:11] Katherine: I'm always on edge. Yeah. 

[00:00:13] Mike: You're trying to get like to the perfect place where you think, or maybe you're waiting for this aha moment where everything finally clicks, but it will never click until you start actually doing it, making mistakes, learning on the job.

[00:00:25] Eldar: That's why you were saying like, yo, 

[00:00:26] I just have to do it. I had enough of listening to these people sitting on the sidelines watching somebody else shoot the ball. 

[00:00:31] Mike: Yeah. I play 

[00:00:31] Eldar: the game. Yeah. What am I doing? 

[00:00:33] Mike: You 

[00:00:33] Eldar: know? Yeah. He is I just have to do it. That's the answer.

[00:00:43] We're gonna talk about a subject that everybody always talks about or everybody thinks about, but no one really does anything about, and that's called fear, right? Would you call fear like a our cousin or our brother? Or maybe even our fucking shadow, right? It's so close to us that it's always there 

[00:01:03] shadow, 

[00:01:03] some kind of fucking Bs, holding us away from, actualizing ourselves, from enjoying life, from having fun and um, and really taking, taking, taking everything in that, or, or life has to offer and stuff.

[00:01:15] So, Toliy. You were fucking buzzing about this topic, fear this whole week? 

[00:01:21] Toliy: Yeah. 'cause I feel like it tell us uh, tell us it hit it, it hits home in, in many ways for me from, from a very young age. In general. Like fear. Fear has ruled my life for a long time. 

[00:01:33] Eldar: Hmm.

[00:01:33] Give us some examples. 

[00:01:34] Where, where'd you come from? 

[00:01:36] Toliy: Well,

[00:01:36] Eldar: where'd you start? 

[00:01:37] Toliy: Yeah. Um, fir first off, I was always like, uh, like any kind of like responsibility or something. I was definitely fearful of that. I, I, I don't know. What do you mean 

[00:01:47] Eldar: responsibility of 

[00:01:48] Mike: what?

[00:01:48] Toliy: I don't know, just, just a very um, simple example is like in basketball. Like I definitely didn't want to take shots that mattered in, in any way. I'd rather take the in between shots. 

[00:01:58] Mike: That's funny. He used that as a first example. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:02:01] Toliy: Yeah. Well, it's like a simple one.

[00:02:02] Yeah. 

[00:02:02] Mike: No, no, that's, that's the one that's sparked my whole thing. Conversation with Eldar about fear. Yeah. Yeah. It was a basketball related thing that 

[00:02:10] Toliy: Yeah. So. Yeah. Like I, I definitely Hey, the game's tight. Hey, I'm just gonna not shoot, 

[00:02:15] Eldar: I'm gonna be in the shadows. 

[00:02:16] Toliy: Yes.

[00:02:17] Eldar: Don't look at me, don't pass me the ball. 

[00:02:18] Toliy: Yes. Yes. Which is a crazy phenomenon. 'cause I don't want the judgment, I don't want the look the responsibility. I want the responsibility 

[00:02:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:24] Toliy: Of it,

[00:02:25] Eldar: of taking the important shot 

[00:02:26] Toliy: Yeah. Of the important shot. I'm definitely no I'm gonna pass out the ball.

[00:02:30] Yeah. I'm gonna overthink it. I'm definitely not gonna shoot it sick. Like 

[00:02:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:33] Toliy: That, that was definitely always a thing, but if it's in between Hey, we're up by a lot. Maybe we're down by a lot, then I felt That's 

[00:02:40] Eldar: okay. 

[00:02:40] Toliy: Then it's okay. Yeah. Lot. 

[00:02:42] Eldar: It's safe. 

[00:02:42] Toliy: It's, yeah. Like that, so like that, that's one example. I don't know. I mean, 

[00:02:46] Eldar: you were in your thirties now. When was this? This was like when you were a teenager, right? Like 12, 13, 14? 

[00:02:51] Toliy: Um, yeah. 

[00:02:52] Eldar: When you were younger. 

[00:02:52] Toliy: Yeah. Younger. Yeah. Okay. Now, now I've been, I mean, I feel the complete opposite. I like I want, I want the game on the line shot.

[00:02:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:58] Toliy: I definitely want 

[00:02:59] Eldar: you overcame that, 

[00:03:00] Toliy: that, yeah. Okay. Yeah, just uh, I mean, like an anxiety and fears are like, closely uh, tied, like fears of things happening, of constant like fears of bad things happening, like yeah.

[00:03:11] Like I feel like they've always kind of like, um, what there, there've always been like simmering, like in, in, in, in my life. Yeah. And then times where there have been like, larger fire, smaller fire, simmer, but they're always like, there. Then for, for me at least, it's always been difficult to separate yourself because I be like, I, I, I believe that that fear is almost like a, uh, part of you that you, you almost need to like, kill off, and, 

[00:03:36] Eldar: uh, why, why so strong? What, why such a strong stance? 

[00:03:39] Toliy: The, the thing is that like a lot of times it, it, it's very difficult to, to tackle because you're mo most likely, again, if you tell somebody what it is and like you go over it, it's usually a, um, a logical scenario. So when you try to fight it with like logic, it doesn't really like work, work always, because like you're feeling something that doesn't make sense to begin with, or you, you think about ways and, and, and like that, that don't make sense, but you're going to use sense to, to fight something that doesn't make sense.

[00:04:15] It's usually very difficult to I identify and really uh, catch,

[00:04:19] It like, it's like a ghost, every time you look to find it, it's kind of like, it's hi hidden, you can't see it. 

[00:04:25] But when, when it needs to be there, it's there.

[00:04:28] And it's, 

[00:04:29] Eldar: but it serves a very specific purpose. 

[00:04:31] Toliy: Yeah. Just the, the, the difficulty for the person who's experiencing it is, uh, um, one, like not really understanding the, the purpose for, for most people, at least at in. Times two, not even knowing that this is, that this exists 

[00:04:47] Eldar: because it's so automatic or 

[00:04:48] Toliy: so 'cause it's so automatic of who you are Yeah.

[00:04:50] And how you go about things. 

[00:04:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:51] Toliy: Yeah. I feel um, for, for, for a lot of people, including myself it, it, it essentially rules your life and it handicaps you. 

[00:04:59] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:04:59] Toliy: But the significant part is that it's not a handicap where like you're in a wheelchair and you know that you're in a wheelchair. 

[00:05:06] Eldar: Hmm.

[00:05:07] Toliy: It's, it's like a handicap that you may not see and may not know. So you may not even know that like you're, um, 

[00:05:15] Eldar: are experiencing it. 

[00:05:16] Toliy: You're, you're experiencing it 'cause it become the norm. Yeah. That's a norm. You normalize it. So then when you do that um, you don't know it exists, but you're experiencing it.

[00:05:25] So it's almost not even something to work on, or not even something to, to go about because how can you work on, or how can you fix something that doesn't exist for you in your world. 

[00:05:34] Mike: Okay. 

[00:05:35] Toliy: So it, it, it, it, because of all tho those things, because of how it kind of like hides almost, or is it puts a veil over your eyes.

[00:05:43] Or mind. Um, it's very difficult to, to navigate, but not unless you are being handicapped by it. 

[00:05:52] But you just don't know it. 

[00:05:54] Mike: But, um, fear is like a, is it, do we think that it's protecting us from something? 

[00:06:00] Toliy: I don't know if it's protecting you from something, because it's No. Do we 

[00:06:03] Mike: think that it is though?

[00:06:04] Toliy: Do we think that it is 

[00:06:05] Mike: like the people who are scared of something, it's protecting us from something? 

[00:06:07] Eldar: Well, yeah, I think so. I think in the case of the basketball example, in the beginning when he was younger 

[00:06:11] It protected him from what, it probably protected him from being embarrassed. 

[00:06:14] Toliy: Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:15] Eldar: Right. Responsibility, judged, shame. Right? Yeah. All those different things that actually made 'em feel bad inside. 

[00:06:21] Toliy: Right? Yeah. No, not, not, not even when I was, um, that young. Like I, I, the last time I really re remember this, like this feeling in, in the basketball sense is we were on the same team as uh, Sandy and Pedro, remember?

[00:06:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:34] Toliy: And they were like the stars of the team. 

[00:06:36] Eldar: Oh, so they thought, 

[00:06:37] Toliy: or so they thought, yeah. 

[00:06:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:39] Toliy: And they definitely got the most play time, the most like shine. 

[00:06:41] And like for me, it was like, yeah. Like I almost got like accustomed to Yeah. Like I 

[00:06:46] Eldar: we're the losers.

[00:06:46] Toliy: Yeah. I definitely can't maybe a shout here and there is cool, but that's about it, yeah. 

[00:06:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:50] Toliy: I felt that thing where it was like, 

[00:06:52] Eldar: yeah. You put, put yourself 

[00:06:53] Toliy: down, Yeah. It's almost like if they say it's okay, then like 

[00:06:55] Eldar: that I'm okay with 

[00:06:56] Toliy: taking a shot. Yeah.

[00:06:57] Like that. But if not, then yeah. It was a very weird uh, 

[00:06:59] Eldar: dynamic. 

[00:07:00] Toliy: Dynamic. Yeah. 

[00:07:01] Uh, 

[00:07:01] Eldar: which is a long time ago too. This was probably 10 years ago. 

[00:07:03] Toliy: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

[00:07:04] Eldar: So, 

[00:07:04] yeah. 

[00:07:05] Eldar: This is a long time ago. 

[00:07:05] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. But do, do we, do we, 

[00:07:08] Eldar: oh, no, just, just for the record. 

[00:07:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:07:10] Eldar: Then we play, then we ended up being on a different team and we beat this team easily, 

[00:07:15] Toliy: easily.

[00:07:15] Eldar: And we won the championship. 

[00:07:16] Toliy: Yeah. I would say we embarrassed 

[00:07:17] Eldar: them. We embarrassed them. Okay. Yeah. So just just for the record, I don't want to leave it on you got punked or something. No. You know what I mean? No, no. 

[00:07:23] Toliy: There was specifically also one game, 

[00:07:24] Eldar: we punked them 

[00:07:25] Toliy: where it was the equivalent of, of elder holding, like an electric fly swat.

[00:07:29] And the fly was the size of a balloon and moved at the size of a s like a snail. 

[00:07:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:33] Toliy: And he could just hit it whenever he wants. 

[00:07:35] Eldar: Yes. I shot him down. That's 

[00:07:36] Toliy: what happened. Yeah. Yes. 

[00:07:37] Eldar: Well, I said I was gonna do it and I shut him down. 

[00:07:39] Toliy: Yeah. And you were wearing grandpa wool socks. 

[00:07:41] Eldar: Yes, I was at that time.

[00:07:42] I remember. 

[00:07:42] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:07:43] Eldar: it was wintertime. 

[00:07:45] Katherine: Hey guys. 

[00:07:46] Toliy: Hello 

[00:07:47] Eldar: Kat. 

[00:07:48] Toliy: Toyota's gonna bring you up to speed. 

[00:07:49] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:07:50] Toliy: So the, the, the topic is around uh, fear. Oh, fear. That's the role that plays in your life and how it kind of like, um, it holds you back in a lot of things and it's, it like handicaps you, but you don't realize that you're hand handicapped,

[00:08:02] Mike: is 

[00:08:02] Toliy: Yeah. If someone's like handicapped, like they know they're in a wheelchair and they know, they're like in this is what it is. But with fear, it lives like, in like the background and it, um, um, like you may not know that you're even afraid of something or you have fear in the subject, but you just live that life out and you can never tie the two and two, two together.

[00:08:21] You, you normalize it, more. 

[00:08:23] Eldar: Anxious state of mind for prolonged period of time being unchecked. 

[00:08:27] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, my mike was asking like, if it's if you feel protected like it, it, I I, I, I think it depends on how you use fear. 'cause I feel like some, some, some things where, where you feel fearful about something, I think you get to a point where you feel that you're supposed to be afraid of this.

[00:08:46] This is not like you're afraid you're like, this, this is just a fact. Like you're supposed to be afraid of, for example, a tiger. That is like a, a widely accepted thing. 

[00:08:55] Mike: Sure. 

[00:08:55] Toliy: But there, 

[00:08:56] Mike: but there's, but there's, there's like a difference that's more of like a fear of heights is there's, I think some, something I heard there's only actually two things you can be, like, genuinely fear of, which is a fear of heights.

[00:09:07] And something else, because there's actually a fear there. That's a real thing. 

[00:09:10] Eldar: Well, there's real consequences. 

[00:09:11] Mike: There's real consequences. Yeah. 

[00:09:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:12] Mike: Yeah. So 

[00:09:13] Eldar: you are, you ought to be careful. 

[00:09:14] Mike: You ought to be Yeah. Just a little bit Fearful. Fearful. But most of the fears is all, all made up. I, I forgot those was like some, I don't remember that exactly, but, 

[00:09:22] Toliy: so I was trying to bring the example of you could be afraid of something 

[00:09:26] Mike: uhhuh, 

[00:09:26] Toliy: um, and you just accept that as this is just something that you should be afraid of.

[00:09:30] Yeah. Like challenging your boss, for example, at work. 

[00:09:33] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:09:34] Toliy: Right. 

[00:09:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:34] Toliy: I think many pe people are pre-programmed that they have a fear of doing that. For example, 

[00:09:39] Eldar: of course 

[00:09:40] Toliy: the job's 

[00:09:40] Eldar: on the line. 

[00:09:40] Toliy: For example, and they think that hey, that hey, the boss could be wrong and maybe it would be actually a good thing to challenge them.

[00:09:48] For example. 

[00:09:49] Because you could actually, like if, if the boss has a best interest of the company, maybe you have something that they're not like considering or thinking 

[00:09:55] Eldar: Yeah. But have a good idea. 

[00:09:56] Toliy: Yeah. So, but they're, but they have a built-in, um, fear that like in their program, in, in their like, uh, hard drive 

[00:10:04] The, the code says that this is bad. So they will never even 

[00:10:08] Eldar: consider, 

[00:10:09] Toliy: consider it because you Yeah. Like you can't do this. 

[00:10:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:12] Toliy: So there's a lot of these things that people have that like what you can and what you can't do. For example, 

[00:10:17] Eldar: it's almost like social norms that are bound by your own personal fears.

[00:10:20] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:10:21] Eldar: Right. You shouldn't even doing this, you 

[00:10:22] Toliy: shouldn't 

[00:10:22] Eldar: be doing that. 

[00:10:23] Toliy: But oftentimes these are learned behaviors. So these are not like your own fears. 

[00:10:27] They become your fears, but they belong to the entity of other people that that like perpetrate this, these kind of fears and Yeah. They, uh, they uh, like they give life to them that yes, these are valid fears.

[00:10:40] Yeah. And people adopt them, but I don't think that they're born with these kind of fears, for example. Okay. They're not like, or fears, 

[00:10:45] Eldar: they've been kind 

[00:10:46] Toliy: of brainwashed 

[00:10:46] Mike: into them 

[00:10:47] Toliy: pretty much. Yes. You subscribe to those fears based on what you've consumed, online or in person or 

[00:10:51] Mike: Or 

[00:10:52] Toliy: parents.

[00:10:53] Yeah, yeah. Whatever. Parents. Yeah. Yeah. Like if, if, if, uh, I dunno, like my grandma probably has a fear from Soviet times and then like when like she sees the canned tomatoes that she likes at the, uh, store, she'll buy 30 of them. 

[00:11:05] Now knowing that hey, if they run out like by Friday they'll 

[00:11:07] Eldar: stock again, 

[00:11:08] Toliy: they're gonna stock again.

[00:11:09] She like, for her it's no, no, no, no, no. We need to buy a lot because they could be out of stock. Like she has this Yeah. She's still 

[00:11:14] Eldar: living that out. 

[00:11:14] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:11:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:15] Toliy: And my mom has like a portion of this too. No. 

[00:11:17] Eldar: And you do too. 

[00:11:19] Toliy: No, no. Not that. No. Come on. No, no. Yeah. They actually have a fear that this will be out of stock.

[00:11:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:26] Toliy: And they will never have this 

[00:11:28] Eldar: again. 

[00:11:28] Toliy: So they will, they will do that stock 

[00:11:30] Eldar: up. 

[00:11:30] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So I always told 'em that oh no. When they, when like, when, when people would come over and they would tell 'em about, oh, like these, like these, these tomatoes from like Uzbekistan, like they're the best, like this and that.

[00:11:40] And they'll show them all to their friends. I'm like, Hey, don't worry. You're not gonna be able to buy them anyway, because they're the whole supply breaking, they're sold. Outbreaking is in the basement. 

[00:11:48] Eldar: It is in the basement. Yeah. 

[00:11:49] Toliy: So like, why are you even telling them? 

[00:11:50] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:51] That's funny. 

[00:11:51] Okay. 

[00:11:52] Toliy: So yeah, like the, the overarching I feel like is issue with this sub subject is I feel like the, uh, the invisible veil that gets put on 

[00:12:03] Of the, of the thing that you subscribe to that you don't even realize. So it's almost, 

[00:12:08] Eldar: is it sort of like a glass ceiling for women?

[00:12:11] Toliy: A glass? What? 

[00:12:12] Eldar: You, you heard, you know what I'm talking about? 

[00:12:14] Mike: I never heard of this. 

[00:12:14] Eldar: Never what? You 

[00:12:15] Katherine: never heard of the term? No. 

[00:12:16] Eldar: You never heard of 

[00:12:17] Mike: This is something, uh, 

[00:12:18] Eldar: glass ceiling is, is like a ceiling. Yeah. Right. That it's there, but it's not there. But everybody knows about it. It's if you're a woman, it for a 

[00:12:24] Mike: woman.

[00:12:25] Eldar: I don't know. It just came to me because like in know workplace or whatever, where it's like women cannot supersede men. Okay. In this specific whatever, whatever. Salary or responsibility, power, whatever. 

[00:12:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:12:35] Eldar: There's a glass ceiling for women. Okay. You know what I mean? So it's almost like this is what he's talking about.

[00:12:39] Toliy: Oh yeah. It's almost 

[00:12:40] Eldar: like it's there but it's not there. 

[00:12:41] Toliy: Yeah. Everyone has these kind of like ceilings. 

[00:12:43] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:12:44] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, I guess some people like, like the uh, the buzzword for it is like a limiting belief. 

[00:12:49] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:12:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:12:50] Eldar: I I didn't know that. Okay. Limiting belief. No. 

[00:12:51] Katherine: Yeah. Well that makes sense. That actually like, 

[00:12:53] Toliy: yeah.

[00:12:54] Katherine: It tells me exactly what you're talking about. Limiting belief. Yeah. So are you guys saying that like people with fears, we're just putting, we are essentially creating our own glass ceiling and, and staying a lot 

[00:13:05] Toliy: of the time. Yes. 

[00:13:05] Katherine: Underneath. Yeah. That's what it feels 

[00:13:07] Toliy: like. Well, that's the thing. But what part of, I think the issue is that like a lot of these things, they're not conscious like agreements.

[00:13:13] Like they're not like you going and like for example, I don't know, like you sign a contract for a house. You actually went there and I don't dunno, let's just say your lawyer reviewed the agreement, right. And you signed it. So you agree to this now you know the terms, 

[00:13:26] Katherine: you know the terms.

[00:13:26] Yeah. 

[00:13:26] Toliy: Hey, this is what the interest is, this is what the monthly payment is. Exactly. Are you okay to sign up for this? And you say yes and you are okay. All to a lot of these things. You are binding a lot of these agreements, but you do not, you have no recollection of ever doing this. Yeah. Like you don't know, but, but you signed up for it.

[00:13:45] So if like your parents, for example, raised you a particular way or did things a particular 

[00:13:49] Eldar: way Oh, oh, Catherine is riddled with these things. 

[00:13:51] Katherine: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:13:51] Toliy: yeah, 

[00:13:52] Katherine: yeah. Well, the thing is this is not black and white. You don't just pick up fear on the shelf at like the supermarket. I, I think, I think it's like nature and nurture, like in back in school, like is it nature and nurture? It's both, like you can be genetically disposed to, you could have two very anxious parents. So Yeah. What's gonna happen when you're born? You, you might, develop that and you're gonna grow up in an environment that is very anxious and fearful. 

[00:14:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:17] Katherine: I grew up in that environment.

[00:14:18] Yeah. My mom is very tense, anxious, fearful person, and I'm a lot like her. In many ways. But I also grew up in that kind of household and now I'm, trying to, undo, undo all of these fears and all of these limitations that I put on myself, and they are very limiting beliefs.

[00:14:37] It'll affect everything in your life and how you see yourself. It affect your future, your present, everything. 

[00:14:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:43] Katherine: But it, I, I, I don't think it's maybe, I don't know if it's just, I don't know if you guys are talking about like where it comes from, but I think it's complex. Uh, everybody has a, has a unique.

[00:14:53] I guess family, uh, what do you call it? Genetics and, and environment. Dynamic like nature where they grow up in. 

[00:14:59] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:00] Katherine: But it definitely, it's something you carry with you for a while until you decide okay, this is not what I want. 

[00:15:06] Eldar: When you start on subscribing. 

[00:15:08] Katherine: Yeah. That's 

[00:15:08] Eldar: what totally talking about right now he's 

[00:15:09] Katherine: like unsubscribing from emails basically.

[00:15:11] Eldar: Yeah. I'll subscribe to some of these fears and he, maybe he's unsubscribe from basketball ca, 

[00:15:16] Mike: but, but, but I think, yeah, what Ka was saying, I think it, there's two different kinds of fears. There's the one like the nature 

[00:15:22] Which is I guess your parents kind of 

[00:15:24] Eldar: genes 

[00:15:25] Mike: and then you nurtured like your, yourself, like your fear of taking that shot.

[00:15:28] It might not have came or taking those shots didn't come from your parents maybe, but it's more like you programmed yourself. They're like, oh, this pressure, like some kind of protection. That's why I asked that question. Is it like, the reason we developed the fear is because we, it logically for us to some kind of moment and instead of uh, processing it properly, we made like a protection thing and the fear is like a protector, but it's also like a, it also drowns you at the same time.

[00:15:56] Toliy: Well, yeah, I. I think in like different cases yeah, like it, it's protecting something. 

[00:16:02] Katherine: But can, can I ask you guys something? Yeah. I, I never thought about it as a protection for, for like your example about if, if you're going into a lake that might have alligators, for example. Like it can, it can save your life potentially.

[00:16:14] I never thought it about it though that way. In, in, in terms of having fears for protection. I think it, it's, it's more, I don't know, I don't know if this is the right word. Like ignorance. 

[00:16:24] Eldar: I think that if you, if you actually examine each fear that you do have, it is actually protecting something.

[00:16:30] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:16:30] Eldar: Okay. And a lot of times I think it's protecting you from ego. Ego, maybe 

[00:16:34] Katherine: failure, ego, 

[00:16:35] Eldar: ego, you proud. Right? If totally, for example, disappointing the basketball Right. Thing where Uhhuh, if he took that shot, he's not taking that shot because maybe he observed the coach yell at this other kid that took that similar shot Mm.

[00:16:45] And did something. Right. Okay. And that coach took it very seriously and he yelled at him at the other kid and told us like, oh, I don't wanna be that kid. So you learn really quickly to say okay, cool. I don't want to 

[00:16:55] Katherine: that. I don't, I 

[00:16:55] Eldar: responsibility. That's 

[00:16:57] Katherine: avoid avoided behavior. 

[00:16:57] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:16:58] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:16:58] Eldar: So there's many different Yeah.

[00:17:00] Katherine: I, I was very good at, 

[00:17:01] Eldar: probably still, so there's different, so many different arrays of different behaviors and different learned patterns that we see, and we start to tell ourselves this little narrative of I don't wanna do this, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna mess up here, I don't wanna mess up there.

[00:17:12] Yeah. So you never take accountability for Mike. It was, it was not being able to lose properly. Right. Or process a loss. Yeah. 

[00:17:18] Mike: Not being able 

[00:17:18] Eldar: to process a loss, yeah. So that fear became a protector in order to not have, not 

[00:17:23] Mike: engage in stuff and never, 

[00:17:24] never 

[00:17:24] Katherine: lose, avoid it. And never 

[00:17:25] Mike: lose. 

[00:17:26] Katherine: Um, so how would you describe like that, for example, what, like Mike and totally have described, and then for example my mom's a fear of fo uh, like a phobia of like snakes or me with claustrophobia of like tight spaces, 

[00:17:39] Eldar: uhhuh.

[00:17:40] Katherine: Like, how, how would you, how would you like describe that, 

[00:17:43] Eldar: that I think think one is a, one is a physical one, one is mental. Probably right where you, if your mom tenses up. 

[00:17:48] Katherine: Mine is mental. 

[00:17:50] Eldar: Yeah. Of uh, of of, of seeing snakes. It's because that's probably um, she went through some kind of experience or maybe her mom went through some kind of 

[00:17:56] Katherine: experience.

[00:17:57] Yeah, yeah. My grandma was pregnant with 

[00:17:58] Eldar: her. I was scared of dogs for 

[00:18:00] Mike: 30 years. More than 30 years. Yeah. Probably close to 30 years. And then you guys got arch and then I'm not scared of dogs anymore. And now 

[00:18:08] Katherine: we have Teddy. 

[00:18:09] Eldar: No, I think you should have, I think you should have a healthy fear of certain dogs.

[00:18:12] Right. Because dogs do 

[00:18:13] Katherine: bite protection right there. It's okay, they bite, 

[00:18:16] Mike: which is like experience. Yeah. That's why I developed a fear. It was to protect me from getting caught off guard. So it protected me and I stayed away from dogs. 

[00:18:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:25] Mike: That's the protection. 

[00:18:25] Eldar: The problem is that you overwhelmed yourself with the protection.

[00:18:29] Mike: Yes. By protecting yourself against 

[00:18:31] all 

[00:18:31] Eldar: the dogs. 

[00:18:31] Mike: Right. All it was illogical. 

[00:18:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:33] Mike: And I think when you come combine in fear with protection a lot of times, uh, logical fallacies,

[00:18:38] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:18:39] Mike: Will exist. 

[00:18:40] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:18:41] Mike: Because then you just blanket 

[00:18:42] Eldar: every time and then it becomes a, a limiting belief system where now you can't have a dog because you're scared.

[00:18:47] Katherine: Dog. Is it just schemas though then like Right. We build schemas. 

[00:18:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:51] Katherine: In our, in our minds for 

[00:18:53] Eldar: sure. 

[00:18:53] Katherine: Regarding things and then we just hold onto them. 

[00:18:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:56] Katherine: And they might, we might be very young and we might just hold onto them the forever until we challenge it. 

[00:19:01] Eldar: The problem with the schemas is that when schemas are adopted or adopted, adopted by you.

[00:19:06] Rarely do they go checked afterwards, like totally said. Then they become an autopilot situation where it's like, when I look at a dog, it's fear. You never look at it as okay, can I look at this dog in a different way or can I look at the snake in a different way? What kind of snake is this?

[00:19:19] Right? You don't go through the process of like actually finding out what the truth of the matter is. You just go into fight or flight mode right away. That is the problem with that. We're totally challenging us to say, look, these things have been unchecked for all your life and you are on the automatic pilot and therefore you are in self-made prison that you can't get out of.

[00:19:40] Yeah. You just, you are a pinball jumping from one anxiety to another, to another, to another, to another, to another. 

[00:19:44] Toliy: Yeah. But you 

[00:19:45] Eldar: don't even know, you don't even know that this is what happening to you. Yes. 

[00:19:47] Katherine: Welcome to 

[00:19:48] Eldar: my 

[00:19:48] Katherine: life. 

[00:19:48] Eldar: You, yeah. So you're constantly on edge. 

[00:19:50] Katherine: I'm always on edge. Yeah. Yeah. I feel tense right now.

[00:19:52] I just, I'm tense most of the time. 

[00:19:54] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:19:55] Katherine: See, 

[00:19:55] Eldar: you don't even know why. 

[00:19:56] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:19:57] Eldar: You can't track back and 

[00:19:57] Katherine: say, I'm a tense driver. 

[00:19:59] Eldar: See, there you go. Yeah. 

[00:20:01] Katherine: Where did it, where was it born? I'm sure something happened at some point. Yeah. You have 

[00:20:05] Eldar: a pretty bad attitude 

[00:20:05] Katherine: when you drive. 

[00:20:06] Eldar: Actually, 

[00:20:06] Katherine: it's terrible. I, because I'm so tense, I'm basically certain chemistry makes, I'm stressed.

[00:20:10] Eldar: Oh yeah. You know what I mean? About other people driving or whatever. Yeah. I'm 

[00:20:14] Katherine: a tense, I'm 

[00:20:14] Eldar: a tense driver. That's who is this person, I don't even know this person. 

[00:20:17] Katherine: And you know what, ever since my accident too, I almost brace myself in certain situations. 'cause I'm al almost like if someone is, is tailgating and someone is pressing too close to me.

[00:20:27] It pisses me off because like now I'm on alert. I'm like, if I'm not like, uh, yeah. Anything I do, this guy, this person is just gonna hit me. So you 

[00:20:35] Eldar: made that 

[00:20:35] Katherine: stuff up in your head and I, and I'm, I'm almost bracing and preparing myself Yeah. For the impact. 

[00:20:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:40] Katherine: Yeah. How crazy is that?

[00:20:42] It's every day, 

[00:20:42] Toliy: I'm doing this. 

[00:20:43] Katherine: Every day. 

[00:20:44] Toliy: If you examine what's going on there for, for example, right? If you were to say, okay, well how often do you drive? How often do you get into an accident? If it was like one outta 10 times or two outta 10 

[00:20:53] Eldar: times? Yeah. You should de definitely brace 

[00:20:54] Toliy: yourself.

[00:20:54] You should definitely brace yourself. Yeah. Right. Or you, you probably wouldn't then drive. But if you drive, I don't know out if it's one every, 10 years or five years, right? 

[00:21:02] Then yeah, if you logically go about that, you'll see that. Like you shouldn't have those feelings, but it's also very hard to logically go about it that, that way when you made the agreement in in illogical format to begin with. 

[00:21:15] So it's very difficult to find to, to, to fight your battle here with logic to something that doesn't make sense to begin with. 

[00:21:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:21:24] Toliy: Um, yeah. Again, same thing with anxiety. If you break down any of these things you, they're gonna feel like just, just like magical, like ghost purple elephants too, 

[00:21:34] Katherine: thinking errors right there.

[00:21:35] Right. 

[00:21:36] Eldar: Well, that's, isn't 

[00:21:37] Katherine: that a good saying? Discussion of it 

[00:21:38] Eldar: saying a lot of times, because you've created this nonsense in your head 

[00:21:41] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:21:42] Eldar: Illogically. 

[00:21:42] It is very difficult to fight them logically. Yeah, that's the issue. 

[00:21:46] Katherine: You've made something illogical, makes sense to you, and then you, you have a belief or an attachment to that.

[00:21:52] Eldar: You have a prop. 

[00:21:53] Katherine: So that is what is logical to you. Somehow you made it like your sense, like it makes sense to you. Yes, 

[00:21:58] Eldar: yes. A lot of times you'll create these things, these narratives on your own. So it's never been checked. Now if you in this room right here, you start telling us about this stuff.

[00:22:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:22:06] Eldar: We're clearly gonna say, oh, Catherine, actually we don't agree with you at all. Yeah. And these are reasons why. So that's when, in that moment you can snap out of that automatic thinking and start to rewire your brain a little bit when it comes to your logic or get 

[00:22:19] Toliy: angry, for example. Yes. Right? Like if, if, if in your world, two plus two equals four, and everyone here is no, Kat, it's actually five.

[00:22:26] What are you talking about? Your response would be like, what are guys talking about? Like two and two is four. 

[00:22:31] So then you can go into either that battle or you could be like, these guys are morons. Like you're saying it's five. 

[00:22:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:22:36] Toliy: So that to me is when that happens and it's like your, your whole system's like under attack there.

[00:22:42] So it's a For 

[00:22:43] Katherine: sure. 

[00:22:44] Toliy: Yeah. It's very difficult to apply any kind, any kind of right thinking or any kind of like different ways to go out things. But again, this agreement was made not in a conscious like state. 

[00:22:56] Katherine: It's a blind contract. 

[00:22:57] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:22:58] Mike: It's 

[00:22:58] Toliy: a blind 

[00:22:59] Katherine: contract. Yeah. It's 

[00:22:59] Toliy: a blind contract.

[00:22:59] Yeah. But somewhere along the lines, again, you signed it, you agreed with it. I dunno. You saw that kid getting yelled at so you're not gonna, you don't wanna put yourself in that position. 

[00:23:09] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:23:09] Toliy: For example. So you just go about doing this, but you never know this. 

[00:23:13] Katherine: Yeah. You remember in the movies, like older movies where to make a pact like they would like um, 

[00:23:21] Eldar: cut the hands.

[00:23:21] Katherine: Cut their hand, like bleeding, draw blood. 

[00:23:23] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:23:23] Katherine: And then like a handshake. Yeah. It's like that kind of agreement.

[00:23:26] Eldar: Like a dirty 

[00:23:27] Katherine: one. Like a dirty one. They, they have a dangerous one. 

[00:23:30] Eldar: They have 

[00:23:30] Toliy: that in Harry Potter. 

[00:23:31] Katherine: They have that in Harry Potter. Yeah. I don't remember that. 

[00:23:33] Eldar: Okay. We're watching that now, so, alright.

[00:23:35] Yeah. So Mike your fear give, give us an example of yours, which is a very, also along the lines of what tos talking about how this, your fear is, is affecting you. And how'd you discover it? They're like, Hey what the hell's wrong with me? Why am I glitching too? Why can't I, actualize myself?

[00:23:51] Mike: You mean the basketball, the girls or the rock climbing? 

[00:23:55] Eldar: Well, any of them are pretty 

[00:23:56] Mike: good. 

[00:23:57] Katherine: Or d all of the above. 

[00:23:59] Mike: All of the above. Yeah. Or confrontation. Yeah. I think, uh, I think, uh, I mean, I don't know how I, like they all came to light, but they, I, I think they all came from, from a very specific incident of uh, the competition.

[00:24:14] And that definitely put a lot of fear into me with sports related stuff and the belief in myself. 

[00:24:20] So like that obviously ties into basketball. It ties into rock climbing. 

[00:24:24] Yeah. 

[00:24:25] And it probably ties into rejection with girls. But yeah you want me to tell the story again?

[00:24:32] Eldar: Well, if you want 

[00:24:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:24:33] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:24:34] Mike: I can. Yeah. Where I had that like traumatic loss in tennis. 

[00:24:37] When I went to a tournament I was maybe like 12, 13 years old and I lost, and I didn't know how to process it properly. 'Cause I thought I was like a better player. 

[00:24:46] Yeah. 

[00:24:46] And I was probably a, like if there was, if you take out the emotion side of it or the mental side of it, I was probably a much better player.

[00:24:53] I mean, I was definitely a much better player without that, and I could have played better, but because of the the inability to be competitive and like lack of self-belief 

[00:25:03] I wasn't able to actually do anything at, at a level that I'm at levels actually at. It's like they have that thing of liquid courage right.

[00:25:10] More also like that, like when you're not drunk, you can't go up to girls, but like 

[00:25:13] Yeah. 

[00:25:13] I feel like I was always wearing that, the opposite hat of no courage 

[00:25:17] To do those things, to really concentrate, to focus, to give a hundred percent effort. 

[00:25:21] Yeah. 

[00:25:21] And rather to give up before.

[00:25:23] Yeah. 

[00:25:24] Before I actually there was reason to give up. 

[00:25:28] Yeah. 

[00:25:29] Toliy: But it's actually funny, like that actual thing is like for, for example in tennis as the example, like that's a huge driving factor. Like the, uh, like there could be a younger player who's better than the older player, but the, but they've never been experienced to be on that stage.

[00:25:44] And like all the shirts on you, all the pressure. 

[00:25:47] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:25:47] Toliy: The older player wins because he's been there already bunch of 

[00:25:49] Eldar: times. He's 

[00:25:50] Toliy: there experience, but the other guy's better. 

[00:25:51] Eldar: Yeah. It's not necessarily, yeah. It's the, it's 

[00:25:53] Toliy: experience. Just a practice facility with no fans watching. 

[00:25:55] Eldar: Yeah. He'll wins every time.

[00:25:56] Toliy: He'll, he'll win. 

[00:25:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:58] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:25:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:58] Toliy: So, so again, it's, it's an interesting thing. 

[00:26:01] Eldar: It is an interesting, phenomenal, yeah. Because you're 

[00:26:02] Toliy: not playing a different game, right? Yeah. The rules are the same. 

[00:26:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:04] Toliy: The same racket. 

[00:26:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:05] Toliy: The same things, right? 

[00:26:06] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, the, the example that I wanted you to bring up is the basketball example where we went to the rack to play.

[00:26:11] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike is watching. This is 

[00:26:13] Mike: a, there's a huge 

[00:26:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:15] Mike: Thing. And, uh, I think it's very, very funny. Um, so we're, we're playing on Monday, and you obviously been to the Rec, so, uh. There's a bunch of people that come there and they're all bums. And not just because I'm saying, so go with 

[00:26:31] Katherine: the bums.

[00:26:32] Mike: Catherine's always yo, you guys always judge 'em as bums ball. They always 

[00:26:35] Katherine: beat you. This is, this is a like a default for you guys. 

[00:26:38] Mike: Yeah. I 

[00:26:38] Eldar: usually don't, Mike is 

[00:26:39] Katherine: a crazy 

[00:26:39] Eldar: five star 

[00:26:40] Katherine: player, yeah. But here's the thing is especially when you guys would come out of it as losers, like you would, you would it almost, well, it's a 

[00:26:46] Eldar: ver Yes.

[00:26:46] Katherine: It's, it's like a reverse. 

[00:26:47] Eldar: It's, it's a very interesting phenomenon. Very interesting. Because this one is spot 

[00:26:50] Mike: on. 

[00:26:50] Eldar: And Mike, Mike, obviously I agree. I agree with Mike here. 

[00:26:53] Mike: This one is not for negotiation. Ka 

[00:26:55] Eldar: this is not for negotiation. 

[00:26:56] Mike: Yes. Yeah. So these guys, they're bums, and I'm not just saying because they're like, they can't dribble or they take crazy shots or it's like a combination of things.

[00:27:06] But what's happening is I'm sitting on the bench and I'm watching them play, and they're taking terrible shots. 

[00:27:13] Eldar: Are you 

[00:27:13] talking 

[00:27:13] Mike: about air balls? Totally. Yeah. Like 

[00:27:15] Eldar: chalking up air balls. 

[00:27:16] Mike: Air balls, like from guys that then, then will go and make five out of eight or five out of 10. Yeah. And then they'll just do three air balls, Yeah.

[00:27:24] In the, in the next game. 

[00:27:26] So there's no consistency, but the, the problem that I'm having is these guys, they're just like hitting lucky shots or or whatever, and they playing with confidence through the roof. They're crazy, confident. They 

[00:27:39] Eldar: don't care. They don't even think about it. They don't 

[00:27:40] Mike: even think 

[00:27:40] Eldar: about it.

[00:27:40] They don't think about anything. They just going and they're chucking nonstop. Nonstop. And they keep wearing rebounds, chucking it again, 

[00:27:45] Mike: like terrible shots. Terrible shots. And obviously 

[00:27:48] some 

[00:27:48] Eldar: of them go in. Yes. 

[00:27:49] Mike: Yeah. Some of them go in and, and they're shooting shots. Like they're like nasty and they have crazy confidence.

[00:27:57] But in reality, they don't actually, it's not like they don't possess the skills. It's not yeah, if you put that guy on the free throw line, he misses five. He misses five out of, out of seven. Like they're not shooters like that, but because they feel confident and they're not overthinking it like I am, they're like killing it.

[00:28:17] Versus, 

[00:28:17] Eldar: and they're having fun. 

[00:28:18] Mike: And they're having fun versus, 

[00:28:19] Eldar: well, Michael over there is overthinking. I, every time I pass him the ball, his hands shake. 

[00:28:22] Mike: Yeah. I'm over there overthinking it. I can actually dribble the ball. I can actually shoot the ball. I can, like I have coordination, right? These guys are, most of these, not all, but a lot.

[00:28:33] A lot of these guys, they're not like that. They're not athletic, they're not like coordinated and they're taking these shots extremely confidently. Where I am, the complete opposite. I have some skills, but I'm playing like I've never played basketball in my life with the level of confidence like that.

[00:28:49] They're playing like their Michael Jordan game. Seven MVP of finals. Like 

[00:28:53] Eldar: one, one, uh, one foot shots. 

[00:28:55] Mike: One foot shots, 

[00:28:56] Eldar: yeah. Uh, fading away. 

[00:28:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:58] Eldar: Uh, five, 10 feet, almost half court. Yeah. Half court shots. 

[00:29:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:02] Eldar: It's, it's crazy. Yeah. To watch this, you know this. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. But Yeah. And then Michael over there shit in his pants.

[00:29:07] When gets 

[00:29:07] Mike: up, I'm scared to take one shot while these guys in, in a game. One, the one guy shooting 20 shots in a game, and he's probably missing more than 10. 

[00:29:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:16] Mike: To barrels. 

[00:29:17] Eldar: They have, they have like confidence, like they have the biggest dicks in the world, you 

[00:29:20] Mike: know what 

[00:29:20] Eldar: I mean?

[00:29:20] Mike: And I'm scared to take one shot and, and if I miss one eye start, like beating himself up, Yeah.

[00:29:25] Beating myself up yo, what the fuck is, I'm like, yeah. 

[00:29:27] Katherine: That's why they're called limiting beliefs. Yeah. Right. 

[00:29:29] Mike: Yeah. This is what we're 

[00:29:30] Katherine: talking 

[00:29:30] Mike: about. 

[00:29:31] Katherine: We are, we're the ones in control of limiting ourselves in, in tho in those scenarios. 

[00:29:34] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:35] Toliy: Or so we think, we're actually not even in control.

[00:29:37] Katherine: No. '

[00:29:38] Toliy: cause that's, it's just a, it's just a default response. It's not like Mike is saying, Hey, hell, before the game, I'm gonna be afraid to take every single shot. 

[00:29:45] I'm really gonna beat myself up while doing 

[00:29:47] Eldar: it. Yeah. He surprises himself 

[00:29:48] Toliy: every time. Yeah. And he doesn't like commit to Hey, this is what I'm gonna do.

[00:29:50] Yeah. It just happens. 

[00:29:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:52] Katherine: Well, I think that's, that's how you like, uh, the way I see it is fear can be a very negative thing for your life, for, for your, for your choices. For just the way you live. Because it, it's just keeping you from things. 

[00:30:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:03] Katherine: Ultimately. 

[00:30:05] Eldar: But it's also a path 

[00:30:06] Katherine: we are able to, 

[00:30:07] Eldar: to finally to a self-awareness, right?

[00:30:09] Like 

[00:30:09] Katherine: Mike is Yeah. At some point hopefully you realize Hey, you know what, this 

[00:30:12] Mike: is like not, not he's judging himself and he is like, what's happening here? What whatever's transpiring here is completely off. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. 

[00:30:19] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:30:19] Mike: Yeah. The confidence and the abilities are opposite for both people.

[00:30:25] This is doesn't make no logical sense. If you have the confidence in Michael Jordan, you should be able to back it up as if you are Michael Jordan. That's like, how can you feel so confident? They only took 

[00:30:36] Eldar: one thing from Michael Jordan. 

[00:30:37] Mike: Huh? 

[00:30:37] Eldar: They only took one thing from Michael Jordan is this quote where he says, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take take.

[00:30:43] They took that from him and they took Steph Curry's and they ran with it. Uh, three pointers. That's what they did with it. They combine those two and they do it and they do it. Yeah. 

[00:30:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:51] Eldar: And then when you lose to them, I'm boiling. 

[00:30:53] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:30:54] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. It's boiling factor. Yeah. You know what I'm 

[00:30:56] Mike: saying? Yeah. How do you think I feel when the, the guy who never makes shots and just starts draining in my face.

[00:31:03] Yes. And that's the crazy 

[00:31:04] Eldar: Phenomen has 

[00:31:04] when 

[00:31:05] Eldar: Mike gets 

[00:31:05] Mike: on the 

[00:31:05] Eldar: court. 

[00:31:06] Mike: Yes, yes. 

[00:31:06] Eldar: Totally knows. This is 

[00:31:07] Mike: a natural 

[00:31:07] Eldar: thing. This is phenomenon. This is Mike 

[00:31:08] Mike: Mush thing. Yes. Yes. This is Mike 

[00:31:09] Eldar: Mush. He gets on the court and Mike gets the wor, he plays defense on the worst player on the court. Okay. 

[00:31:15] Mike: Okay. 

[00:31:16] Eldar: And this guy gets the ball all of a sudden and then suddenly becomes Mike, Michael Jordan.

[00:31:20] Suddenly Jordan. And he suddenly has this confidence he's gonna take it to Mike every time. Yes. And shit on him. 

[00:31:25] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:31:25] Eldar: Yes. And we're, we were watching this what the fuck? This guy has two left feet do. Do you remember the guy has one arm 

[00:31:30] Toliy: Spanish team? What, what, what was Spanish team called? 

[00:31:34] Eldar: The 

[00:31:35] Toliy: the, 

[00:31:36] Eldar: that guy.

[00:31:36] Yeah. 

[00:31:37] Toliy: Yeah. This guy was like, he was, he was almost telling his team. He was like, yo, the, I got that guy on me. 

[00:31:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:42] Toliy: Give me the ball. I'm the him. 

[00:31:44] Eldar: Him. Yeah. 

[00:31:44] Toliy: Wow. 

[00:31:45] Eldar: And it happens all the time. Crazy. Yes. So imagine how Mike feels. 

[00:31:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:31:48] Katherine: Well, of course. Like 

[00:31:50] Eldar: I'm, yeah, 

[00:31:50] of 

[00:31:50] Eldar: course. That, that Asian guy that, that, that went at you, I'm like, bro oh, the little Asian guy.

[00:31:54] When he did that to you, I'm like, if that somebody did that to me, I'd be so pissed. You don't say I already fight, bro. Yeah. There's not one more point he ever's gonna score. Is that even gonna touch the ball? And I'm gonna steal it every time. I'm gonna block you every time. Yeah. That's how I feel inside.

[00:32:06] You'll 

[00:32:06] Katherine: become a pest. 

[00:32:06] Eldar: Yeah. Oh, you don't The stand, it's a, it's a dis He has it in the pest. It's a, it's a dis totally knows this. There's no way that this guy thinks he's, this is okay around me. 

[00:32:16] Toliy: Yeah. I, I have this when I was guarding like the big guys who think that they're good and like they're all strong.

[00:32:21] They're, just like throwing me around. Yeah. Like I become five times as strong. 

[00:32:25] Eldar: Yeah. You get the fire. The fire never got the fire. Got the 

[00:32:28] Toliy: fire. 

[00:32:29] Katherine: Yes. Oh, 

[00:32:29] Eldar: he doesn't have the fire. Okay. Even though he has the skill, he has the understanding. Yeah. He don't have the 

[00:32:34] Katherine: fire. Well, do you think that just may, may, could it be that you guys are just more passionate for basketball?

[00:32:39] Eldar: Well, the, no. 

[00:32:39] Katherine: The thing is like everyone has different level of 

[00:32:40] Eldar: grew up. We grew up competitive. Yes. And Joe was listening. 

[00:32:43] Katherine: Oh, I see, I 

[00:32:44] Eldar: see. Joe's competitive too. And we discussed this when Joe was around. 

[00:32:47] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:32:47] Eldar: We grew up around it. Like it's an, it's it's already invited in me. It's embedded. It fires me up when I feel it.

[00:32:53] It's like you don't understand if you are lazy, tired, and he couldn't do shit. But you throw competitiveness in there, that's it. You become Superman. Yeah. You wake up, you wake up. 

[00:33:01] Toliy: Well, yeah. You could be like dead tire in the game. Yeah. And then someone like this is you or like that you, you like become alive.

[00:33:08] Yeah. Like you're, you guys thrive in that scenario. You have infinite, you have infinite like stamina, infinite energy, like you're just like a, uh, 

[00:33:15] Katherine: okay. 

[00:33:15] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:33:16] Katherine: Okay. So then it would make, it makes ex ex total sense. 

[00:33:19] Toliy: Oh, the only fire mic was able to get that is, 

[00:33:21] Katherine: that is 

[00:33:21] Toliy: when you would play against to Yes.

[00:33:24] Yes. He had a personal vendetta. 

[00:33:26] Katherine: It's personal. 

[00:33:27] Toliy: Yeah. I would always be furious when my like he, he, he he's a lot of times like lax like days ago on a defense. And then when we're in that separate team, he's guarding me, he's on me like a fucking, like haw. Well, 

[00:33:36] Katherine: there you go.

[00:33:37] Toliy: See, 

[00:33:37] Katherine: okay. Then he gets the 

[00:33:38] Toliy: fire. He was able to tap inability thing. 

[00:33:40] Katherine: So he, he has been able to tap in 

[00:33:42] Toliy: before this. Yeah. So it's not like he doesn't know what to do and he is oh yeah. 

[00:33:46] Katherine: And Mike, were you like totally conscious, like aware when you tapped in into that and then like that you used that fuel?

[00:33:52] Mike: Of course. Yeah. I was, 

[00:33:54] Toliy: yeah. Yeah. He was like, do you remember when in the movie, uh, in, in Boy or Boy when the guy's like a, a uh, dissing him. And then he pictures him and he is needle dick, needle dick. And he starts picturing him, no, you never seen this 

[00:34:09] Eldar: scene. I've seen the scene, but oh my God, I forgot.

[00:34:11] I definitely saw the movie. 

[00:34:11] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:34:12] Eldar: That's funny. 

[00:34:13] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:34:14] Eldar: Yeah. So stuff like that, right? Yeah. Where it's like you can't tap in, you can't. Actualize yourself. You can't have fun ultimately. So you sit there and you're just in your head. Yeah. You're just analyzing in your head like, what's happening with me?

[00:34:26] Why is this happening? 

[00:34:27] Katherine: I know exactly what that, you 

[00:34:28] Eldar: know what I mean? I had 

[00:34:28] Katherine: my own experience Exactly. With those, with that same situ situation. 

[00:34:31] Eldar: No, that, that day was a crazy experience because we lost those games. 

[00:34:34] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:34:35] Eldar: And then the losers that had had next, they start, they, they got up, they suck. They got up and no, we got next.

[00:34:41] Like that, that's the whole story where nobody knows who got next or whatever. Yeah. This guy has two cross eyes. His eyes are cross, cross-eyed. Yeah. He is terrible. He's looking at me in the eyes like this, no, I got next, bro. I'm like, this is crazy. These people I don't know where they came from, but they have confidence up to like unlimited confidence.

[00:34:59] They're terrible. And they have the audacity to talk like this. Mm. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:35:04] Katherine: So what do you think? So what, what, uh, what is preferable though? 

[00:35:07] Eldar: Well, think about it. I think, I think that spectrum is bad too, because they're gonna find out. 

[00:35:11] Katherine: Well, I think extremes are not good. Right? 

[00:35:13] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:35:13] Katherine: But if you're going onto the court and you're having a good time 

[00:35:16] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:35:17] Katherine: And you're believing in yourself. 

[00:35:18] Eldar: Yeah. No, it's definitely good. 

[00:35:20] Katherine: It's not a 

[00:35:20] Eldar: bad thing. It's definitely good. But you 

[00:35:21] Katherine: know, 

[00:35:22] Eldar: you're gonna hit, you're gonna. Long enough you're gonna hit a, a block the, it's gonna be a wall where it's that's not gonna, that's not gonna work any anymore. Well, especially 

[00:35:29] Katherine: if you're not like moving in 

[00:35:29] Eldar: the right way.

[00:35:30] And they're gonna get very pissed and that's what's gonna happen. People like me told and Mike gonna go there. We're gonna restore order. Yes. And everything's gonna be all right. 

[00:35:36] Katherine: The Archie of the, you guys are the Archie of the, we 

[00:35:39] Eldar: gonna 

[00:35:39] Katherine: restore order basketball. 

[00:35:40] Toliy: Yeah. That we will, that's arch. Because if you play against a bunch of people who are bad and you do good, you definitely can get the feeling that like you're actually good.

[00:35:49] But then you go in the presence of people who are like much better. And then you're just like, what the fuck? You 

[00:35:53] Eldar: don't 

[00:35:53] Katherine: wrong 

[00:35:54] Toliy: and you have to shut 

[00:35:54] Eldar: up. 

[00:35:54] Toliy: Yeah. You suck, but you're gonna act and talk like you're the next, next level. Yeah. Yeah. But that's also because again, you're used to playing pe people who are not good.

[00:36:04] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:36:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:06] Eldar: So Mike, that's the conundrum that Mike is experiencing. Yeah. Fear, right? He's trying to go out there and have fun, 

[00:36:12] Mike: and then he is realizing that he is not having fun at all. Yeah. Because of fear. 

[00:36:15] Mm. 

[00:36:16] Yeah. Because I also know, obviously I don't have it most of the time, but I've had enough times to know when I'm actually focused and I'm locked in and the way I feel about myself matches the results in the game where I hit my shots.

[00:36:28] I do my dribbling, I do my layups. I'm not scared of and I'm not moving like a, like a, like a retard. 

[00:36:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:33] Mike: Where I can't dribble the ball and I start panicking, freezing up, like 

[00:36:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:36] Mike: Putting pressure on myself and then not being able to do anything. 

[00:36:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:40] Mike: Being like 

[00:36:41] Eldar: a loser.

[00:36:42] Mike: A loser. Yeah. It definitely becomes frustrating when you think about it. Hey, what the hell? And you obviously I want to be able to turn it on. 

[00:36:50] Because I demand know it exists. Demand, 

[00:36:52] yeah. 

[00:36:52] So that's what I'm like dealing with, but it's also, it requires to break many, many years of automated thinking.

[00:36:59] Yeah. 

[00:37:00] Automated belief system. Yeah. So, yeah. And that's, it's gonna take time and, to dispel those things and to break through, but 

[00:37:07] Eldar: yeah. That's why I asked you that time when that Asian guy made the la up on you in your face. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, Mike, how'd you make, how'd that make you feel?

[00:37:13] You're like, nothing. Like I didn't feel anything. Yeah. I'm like, if that happened to me, I'd be fucking pissed. 

[00:37:17] Mike: Yeah. No, I, because yeah, I, I was like, yo, I'm like, I know he got lucky and I know he's not yeah. But I, but I also know how many times do they get lucky though, on me all the time.

[00:37:26] Right. That's 

[00:37:28] Eldar: what 

[00:37:28] Mike: I'm saying. 

[00:37:29] Eldar: Maybe 

[00:37:30] Mike: it's that, it's that it's, you give away 

[00:37:31] Eldar: that energy. 

[00:37:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:32] Eldar: Right. And because instead of 

[00:37:33] Mike: harnessing 

[00:37:34] Eldar: it Yes. Instead of harnessing it, they know it subconsciously. They know it. They 

[00:37:39] Katherine: smell fear. People, people can, can smell it off you. Yeah. When, when your a person that is lacking confidence, 

[00:37:43] Eldar: so like, all these guys, he's he's soft.

[00:37:45] Mike: You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I am, I'm definitely not like a physical player. I don't feel like a physical aggressive defense and try to like, like that. For sure. 

[00:37:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:52] Mike: So they definitely can't because they know I'm not like really concentrating on defense. 

[00:37:55] Eldar: Correct. But 

[00:37:57] Mike: yeah, yeah, 

[00:37:57] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:37:58] Katherine: They sense it.

[00:37:58] Eldar: Yeah. But he, the problem is that when you know your own efforts. You know what you have inside of you, and then you don't unlock them or use them. That's when you start beating yourself up internally. That is the worst thing, because growing up at least Right, we always pushed those boundaries. Yeah. Right.

[00:38:16] Every time we wanted a little bit more, we stayed a little bit longer. Right. Yeah. I don't know if anybody, Joe knows this, right. Skateboarding or rollerblading. So wanna jump a little bit higher that time off a step, yeah. Three steps, four steps. You always wanted to push that boundary 

[00:38:30] Mike: to really feel 

[00:38:31] Eldar: like alive and like that 

[00:38:32] Mike: adrenaline.

[00:38:33] The other thing I also, I don't know, did I, I don't know if I told you this or we spoke about this um, the fe the failure thing, it's also tied to the thing with my dad where he would always like, I think I told you this. 

[00:38:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:47] Mike: And I think that kind of prevented me from actually exploring the limits how far I can push.

[00:38:52] Eldar: Well explain it. 

[00:38:53] Mike: Yeah. So a lot of times when I would make a mistake my dad, he would, on one hand, he would say oh, it's okay, you, you tried. At first he would yell at me and then he would gimme like credit good job you tried. So it would always give me mixed messages and I was never able to process it.

[00:39:09] So it's like the participation trophies, 

[00:39:11] Katherine: you almost said don't know what, like how you're supposed to feel. 

[00:39:14] Mike: Yeah, yeah. So I never processed it and I never like, took either side seriously. I was like, oh, well, he said I did not good enough even though I lost. But he said, well, you lost so you suck.

[00:39:23] So I was like, Hey, this is mixed messages. I didn't know how to understand it. 

[00:39:26] Yeah. 

[00:39:27] And I think. That that 

[00:39:29] Katherine: also, it's like a backhanded compliment. No. What happened was you saw, but he didn't, 

[00:39:32] Eldar: didn't stay enough in the fire in order to forge himself, uh, uh, and develop character. 

[00:39:36] Mike: Yes, yes. 

[00:39:37] Eldar: Yeah. He needed to be in the shit for a little bit longer to then come out of it and persevere.

[00:39:42] Yeah. But his dad always through the raft and it's Hey, you good? Don't worry about it. Don't protecting 

[00:39:46] Mike: his feelings. 

[00:39:47] Yeah. 

[00:39:47] Eldar: Yeah. That's the perseverance part. 

[00:39:48] Mike: He wanted 

[00:39:49] resilience. Protect 

[00:39:49] me from the 

[00:39:49] Eldar: perseverance, 

[00:39:50] Mike: from like the pain. 

[00:39:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:52] Eldar: But the importance was in the muck. 

[00:39:54] Mike: In the muck.

[00:39:54] Yeah. And I, and then in that and that stuff, I never, uh, 

[00:39:58] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:39:59] Mike: Never was able to evolve or push limits 

[00:40:01] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:40:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:40:02] Eldar: And then you, you grow up always pretty much pedaling to the crowd, right. Like your dad, you know what I mean? Like you always want to maybe satisfy him instead of going out there and playing for yourself.

[00:40:12] Katherine: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:40:13] Eldar: Yeah. Right. And having fun. 

[00:40:15] Katherine: Well, that's where the, the people music comes in. People music 

[00:40:17] Eldar: comes from that too. Yeah. 

[00:40:18] Katherine: Yeah. Just wanting, it's oh, okay, well if I do this, maybe I'll be likable. Yeah. My, my mom or my dad will love me, or, 

[00:40:24] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:40:24] Katherine: Because especially I'll be accepted when you growing up, 

[00:40:26] Eldar: you always steam who your parents, 

[00:40:27] Katherine: of course.

[00:40:27] Yeah. 

[00:40:28] Eldar: This is 

[00:40:28] Katherine: the people that you see and you want their love, and their attention. 

[00:40:30] Mike: Correct. Yeah. 

[00:40:31] Katherine: Yeah, yeah. Hmm. 

[00:40:33] Mike: Yeah. So I think, yeah, it's like definitely very, very much tied to the competition. I was never able to push. Uh, push myself to the boundaries to really see what I'm made of and, and not, 

[00:40:45] Eldar: yeah.

[00:40:45] Mike: So I think, 

[00:40:46] Eldar: and that's why I think rock climbing right now is so important for you because you can actually push yourself there if you want to, and discover some, some, some parts of yourself there. 

[00:40:53] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:40:54] Eldar: And what you've been doing, which is great. Yeah, 

[00:40:56] Toliy: for sure. 

[00:40:57] Eldar: All right. So forget about sports. Totally.

[00:40:59] What else? Let's move away from sports. 

[00:41:02] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:41:03] Eldar: You graduated from sports, then you went into anxiety. Yeah. Which is also based on fear. 

[00:41:09] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think just overall, like the, um, the, the concerning part is it's like the amount of things that basically prevent you from doing things in your life because you have fear.

[00:41:22] And you it's really difficult to identify. It's really difficult to make sense of, and it's really difficult to, yeah. Just examine the whole scenario. It's, it's much, uh, more automatic for you just to live out whatever. It's, 

[00:41:38] Eldar: when do you, when do you finally say, I had enough? When does that moment hit you?

[00:41:42] What, because this whole week you like, I had enough of this shit. I, I gotta do 

[00:41:45] Toliy: something. Well, yeah. I'm pissed, you're 

[00:41:46] Eldar: pissed. 

[00:41:46] Toliy: I'm pissed. Over all, I'm still am like I'm over. Overall I'm pissed because I've thought about accomplishing something for a long time.

[00:41:53] Katherine: Wait till, 

[00:41:54] Are you mad at yourself? Is that what you're saying? 

[00:41:56] Toliy: Yeah, I'm mad at myself, his automatic 

[00:41:58] Eldar: self. 

[00:41:58] Toliy: Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm mad at this situation, I'm frustrated at times. And um, are you, are you 

[00:42:06] Eldar: at the, 

[00:42:07] because my, my breaking breaking point, boy, 

[00:42:09] Toliy: are you at your breaking point?

[00:42:11] I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I can't I can't say I am or I'm not, but yeah, overall I'm pissed. I've been trying to like like I'm, I'm, I'm trying to build like, like a, a a, a sales process and a, uh, better revenue stream for, for, for the company. And I'm trying to do these different things and I've had a, for a long time, all these different visions that now I'm like trying to kill 'em all off, like fucking so they, like the, the whole process bothers me, but I also like, I can't like not commit to working on it or like doing things because I'm also pissed on the other side of the things that are, have been going on that I've been pissed about for a long time.

[00:42:52] So, yeah, like overall I'm pissed, mm. And 

[00:42:55] Eldar: fed 

[00:42:55] Toliy: up. Um, like to me, I'm pissed on both sides if I don't do anything about it and I just go resort back to what I've been doing and how it's been working. You're pissed 

[00:43:03] Katherine: about 

[00:43:03] Toliy: not doing anything. I'm pissed there, and then while doing this new stuff, I'm pissed there too, so overall it 

[00:43:09] Katherine: almost sounds like you, you can't win either 

[00:43:11] Toliy: way. Yeah, I can't, I can't I, I, I can't connect the the, like the, uh, the vision in my, my head to reality. 

[00:43:20] Katherine: Mm. 

[00:43:20] Toliy: So it, it's a very frustrating Yeah. It's a, were a very frustrating feeling as to like why that's happening. And I've had plenty of times where okay, I'm like, okay, hey, it sounds like, I don't know, like information or there's something I'm missing. And then I go and I go into that world and I go and I go okay, I'm just gonna stop doing this. I'm gonna go educate myself more.

[00:43:40] You 

[00:43:41] Toliy: know, and I find out more information, and then I keep getting these points where I'm like, I already know all the stuff that I'm like, re learning.

[00:43:47] Katherine: It sounds like you almost kind of like lose the point, or, or, or Yeah. The, the, the initial reason why you're doing it, you get lost in that. Right. And just, uh, learning and learning and learning and then just not, 

[00:43:59] Toliy: Well, no, when I get the, the frustration I'm like, my, my like thing is Hey, I don't know enough information.

[00:44:05] I need to go learn. 

[00:44:06] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:44:06] Toliy: And then the learning is like a pausing of things. It's like a 

[00:44:09] Katherine: Right. 

[00:44:10] Toliy: Well now you have a buffer. You put an in it like, hey, your excuse is that you need to learn more, mm. So you just go in that, it's like a, yeah. It's like going back to school, you don't have to know how to operate.

[00:44:20] Right. 

[00:44:21] Katherine: Oh, Tommy should be in this 

[00:44:22] Toliy: episode. No way. Pause. So, yeah, like that. That's what happens. And then I go into the learning. And I almost get frustrated because I'm like, I already know all this shit. I know. The fuck am I learning this basic stuff or like doing this or like that.

[00:44:35] Katherine: I understand it. Maybe it's like a form of procrastination. If you are telling yourself well oh no, I don't know enough. I have to go back and learn. It's just a way of you delaying the execution part, well, he's like a form. Well, 

[00:44:47] Eldar: she's tying you to fear. That's why we're having this conversation in the first place.

[00:44:50] Not necessarily procrastination. Okay. 

[00:44:52] Katherine: Procrastination then Fear of executing in what? Failing '

[00:44:55] Toliy: cause there because of fear. Yeah. And all like there. 

[00:44:58] Katherine: What is the fear? 

[00:44:59] Eldar: Well, there you go. 

[00:45:00] Toliy: Well, there's been plenty of times where okay, I'm like, Hey, let me reach out to somebody that like knows their shit.

[00:45:05] Based on what? I guess like the societal things of like they know their stuff or okay. Maybe what they've accomplished, right? And I go and I talk to them and I explain to them and I tell 'em everything. And then like they walk away with me. They're like saying, they're like, oh, like it sounds like you know what's going on here, and I'm like, no, no, I don't. Like I need 

[00:45:20] Katherine: to help. So he's looking for something from someone else. 

[00:45:22] Yeah. 

[00:45:23] Toliy: And then every time I do that, then I leave the situation where, where be, because like I feel like I'm able to properly articulate myself to them. And then they're almost well, what do you need help with here?

[00:45:34] Yeah. The guys, you already 

[00:45:35] Eldar: thought about everything. 

[00:45:36] Toliy: Yeah. Like I, I've already thought about everything so many times, yeah. Like I've already gone in all these circles all these times. Yeah. So when you tell somebody, it like. It's almost like the person is, is expecting like someone to come in and not know anything.

[00:45:49] But then like I, I talk to someone 

[00:45:50] Katherine: who actually like, is Yeah. Needs some guidance. 'cause they're so lost. 

[00:45:53] Toliy: Yeah. Like completely lost. And then I tell 'em, and they walk away. They're like, it, like they gimme similar reactions and then I end up being like, Hey, it's actually kind of like, yeah.

[00:46:02] I'm not gonna reach out to 'em anymore. It's kind of like,

[00:46:04] Mike: dead. 

[00:46:04] Toliy: Yeah. It's dead. 

[00:46:05] Mike: I'm, I missed something completely. Well, when I stepped out. 

[00:46:08] So what, what were you saying? You were having some kind of meetings with somebody? 

[00:46:12] Toliy: No, I'm saying that there's been plenty of times in, in the career in in the process of doing this, where I'm like, Hey, I need to go seek help from someone, Uhhuh who, who's been there and, and done that.

[00:46:20] Mike: Okay. 

[00:46:21] Toliy: In whatever that they do. 

[00:46:22] But I also know that Al Al also at times, people work in like at times in large companies for example, right? Where there's a lot of hiding going on 

[00:46:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:34] Toliy: Of resources and money and like things yeah. Where you could grow something, but no one's expecting, for example, profit or people don't actually care about what actually happens.

[00:46:42] They may not even know what's actually 

[00:46:44] Eldar: tying it 

[00:46:44] Toliy: all together. 

[00:46:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:45] Toliy: Going up, because they're, they're right. So, so, but, but the, so the main thing is I'll go and out, reach out to these people now. I'll explain to them 

[00:46:51] Eldar: These 

[00:46:51] Toliy: leaders 

[00:46:52] Mike: and these 

[00:46:52] Toliy: leaders, yeah. 

[00:46:53] Mike: Okay. 

[00:46:53] Toliy: And I'll talk to 'em about this, I'll talk to 'em about that.

[00:46:56] And lots of times they, we, I walk away with a conversation where they hit me with the, like things where they're, they're like, Hey, it sounds Yeah. What you're saying makes sense. Yeah. And then what I'm trying to, what I wanted to get out of the conversation, uh, I wanted to find out that secret that I don't know.

[00:47:10] You almost, I wanted to find out that breakthrough uh, 

[00:47:12] Katherine: you, and that's, that's, yeah. That's it. 

[00:47:15] Toliy: I wanna find out something and then I, I, what, what I do is I have the conversation with them and I, and I find out that Hey, this person's not gonna tell me the secret. 

[00:47:23] Katherine: The totally.

[00:47:23] You, you believe. 

[00:47:24] Mike: Yes. 

[00:47:24] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:47:25] Katherine: You, you believe that you're lacking something. He's, 

[00:47:27] Toliy: yeah. Well, no, I know. Like, why 

[00:47:29] Katherine: he's not able to say I know all this shit. I'm just gonna ex exit. I'm gonna go ahead. Well, that what he's been saying that 

[00:47:33] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:47:34] Katherine: yeah, yeah. Then you're not been believ in yourself. 

[00:47:35] Toliy: Um, before I talk to, I'm like, oh, shit, I'm gonna speak to this person.

[00:47:39] They've already done this a hundred times. You put them 

[00:47:40] Katherine: on 

[00:47:40] Toliy: a pedestal, possibly, they're gonna be like, oh no, you actually just, do this, do that, do that. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go do that and it's gonna work. 

[00:47:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:45] Toliy: And then yeah. I walk away with her. I'm like I gotta find someone else now, because they didn't tell me the, 

[00:47:50] Katherine: the only difference, they're all keeping 

[00:47:51] Toliy: the shit 

[00:47:52] Katherine: Yeah.

[00:47:52] Between you and the person that you're talking to is that they went out and tried, tried something. They and did 

[00:47:57] Toliy: it. They did it. Yes. 

[00:47:58] Katherine: You're, you're, yes. You're just not launching. 

[00:48:00] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:48:01] Katherine: In that 

[00:48:01] Toliy: sense. And oftentimes like, I mean like, uh, elder has obviously experienced this, plenty of times.

[00:48:06] And we, we've also mu mutually seen it too, where like people could be what's considered successful at something, but they're fucking terrible,

[00:48:13] Mike: yeah. 

[00:48:14] Toliy: Like they're actually like, yeah. Like they're getting what's considered good outcomes from not being like creative or good at all, for example. 

[00:48:21] Katherine: Yeah.

[00:48:21] That's possible. 

[00:48:22] Yeah. 

[00:48:22] Toliy: Um, so 

[00:48:22] Katherine: And you could be good at something and fail as well, like 

[00:48:25] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. You think you can go both ways, so Yeah. Like when I walk away from those conversations Yeah. I'm like, like I'm, uh, I'm thinking that I'm talking to somebody that like, is gonna have a hundred times more information than like I have right now.

[00:48:37] And if they even gimme 10% of it, or something. Then I could learn a lot. I'll unlock and then like I'll unlock something. I don't know. 

[00:48:43] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:48:43] Toliy: And it almost, yeah, at the end of it, I'm just like, fuck, we just spoke for two hours. Wow. 

[00:48:48] Mike: And 

[00:48:49] Toliy: we talked about nothing, basically.

[00:48:50] We just went in a circle and we just went back to

[00:48:52] Mike: yeah. 

[00:48:52] Toliy: Now they leave and Yeah. We just, were all in the same place. 

[00:48:56] Mike: So Did you figure it out or no? 

[00:48:58] Toliy: No. 

[00:48:59] Mike: No. What the hell? He 

[00:49:00] Eldar: came to the conclusion that he actually has to do it. 

[00:49:02] Mike: No, I was gonna give him his own Yes. His own movie reference just now.

[00:49:05] Mm. 

[00:49:05] Eldar: Uhoh 

[00:49:06] Mike: the Mr. Miyagi, he said, just go do the Swirlies, man. 

[00:49:09] Eldar: Yeah. The Swirlies left, right, left, right. 

[00:49:11] Mike: I think that's what it is now. It's just a doing, yeah. 

[00:49:13] Toliy: Yeah. But the pro, the the, yeah. 

[00:49:16] Mike: You don't, you're looking at it like, oh, I understand how to do karate. I gotta go. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[00:49:21] Whatever, all these moves. 

[00:49:22] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:49:23] Mike: And you come to the master and he is he tells you something differently, but that's actually what's needed is to actually do the moves and then you're gonna get the, the results. There's nothing else to learn. Yeah. It also even in the peaceful warrior, he is you know what this is?

[00:49:37] He's yeah. He's okay, go fucking watch the windshield. 

[00:49:40] Something like that. Yeah. Some kind of thing. It's knowing is knowing, but doing, doing like knowledge is knowing wisdom is doing. 

[00:49:49] Eldar: That's right. Knowledge is knowing. Yeah. 

[00:49:51] Mike: And wisdom is going, and wisdom is doing. So it's, 

[00:49:53] Toliy: it's the same thing, but there's also, but, but there's also things that I do in the process, just they don't end up being I I don't get out of the, um, 

[00:50:02] Mike: I think what you're saying is you're saying you're looking for a secret.

[00:50:04] You're looking for a big thing. 

[00:50:05] Toliy: No, no, no. That, that's how it feels. Like I'm saying in those conversations Uhhuh, where they're gonna hear me out and tell me like, Hey they're almost gonna tell me, Hey you're dead, dead wrong and all this stuff,

[00:50:14] And then I'm gonna reeducate myself and

[00:50:16] Uhhuh, 

[00:50:16] Mike: that's what you're looking for, for 

[00:50:18] Toliy: them 

[00:50:18] Mike: to 

[00:50:18] Toliy: tell 

[00:50:18] Mike: you that 

[00:50:18] Toliy: You're right.

[00:50:19] No, no, no, no. It's almost I don't know if I'm looking for that, but I'm looking for someone that like, they, they like, um, they'll be able to lap me com completely. In what they're saying. 

[00:50:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:50:28] Toliy: Almost. And then I'll be able to have that feeling of Hey, like 

[00:50:31] Mike: this is the 

[00:50:31] Toliy: guru.

[00:50:32] I gotta follow him. Yeah. It's all, yeah. It's all almost like getting Yeah. Validation that like. It's actually correct that you don't know something and you need, and you need to learn way more. I'm almost like seeking that. 

[00:50:42] In those moments, 

[00:50:43] Katherine: a masochism, 

[00:50:44] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:50:45] Toliy: I'm hoping they tell me that everything I'm saying is incorrect, kind, yeah. So that I have then an excuse as to why I'm not succeeding, 

[00:50:52] Mike: but that you go, 

[00:50:53] Katherine: it's an excuse. There we 

[00:50:54] Mike: go. Yes, 

[00:50:54] Katherine: yes, yes, yes. 

[00:50:55] Mike: Oh, you're 

[00:50:55] Toliy: looking for 

[00:50:56] Mike: an excuse. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:50:57] Toliy: yeah. Not well, well, obviously not in those moments, but that's when I'm thinking about it now. That's almost how it feels like.

[00:51:03] I like, I like yeah. I almost want them to be like, Hey, like you're saying, it makes no sense. You 

[00:51:08] Mike: gotta learn all this. It's again, it's gonna uh, oh. Sorry, Kat. No, 

[00:51:11] Katherine: no, it's okay. 

[00:51:12] Mike: It's, it's again gonna tie into like at least how I feel, at least what I'm hearing. What I'm thinking is it is gonna tie into that same thing we were talking about last week.

[00:51:23] The small stuff is the big stuff. You are like, yeah, this guy's telling me like, Hey, go watch this windshield. You are like, this is irrelevant, man. I want to fucking, no, but that's not, that's not, not what I'm, detail this. Fuck. No, no. But maybe not saying it, but maybe that's how it feels like, yo, wait, this sounds like nothing to do is this is too simple to be so successful.

[00:51:41] Because you're, you're saying you aiming for this huge thing, this huge unlocking thing, this huge secret, but, which sounds like a huge thing, but ultimately the secret is in the small thing, it's not about losing a hundred pounds. It's about losing point is 0.01 pounds. Every single day consistently for a thousand days or whatever.

[00:51:59] Toliy: No, no. Like I understand that, but I'm saying that like, when I go into those conver conversa, like obviously I'm looking at this now, like in hindsight. So when I'm thinking about it now, I'm saying that I'm almost looking for something that like I'm completely missing where when s says I'm looking for the portal, 

[00:52:14] Mike: yeah. 

[00:52:14] Toliy: Uh, there's no obviously portal. 

[00:52:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:16] Toliy: So like the, that's how I'm looking at it now. Obviously I don't really do that stuff anymore. 

[00:52:21] Mike: Mm. 

[00:52:21] Okay. 

[00:52:21] Toliy: But yeah, I mean, I, I definitely understand that, that, that, that, that it's in like the small actions is what make it, makes up the larger one.

[00:52:29] But I feel like still somewhere throughout the process right now there's something that like, I'm not able to like, see or understand. Or there's, there's some kind of veil over my eyes that's um, yeah. Pro pre preventing me from connecting like the, like the thoughts I have and the actions that come out of it, that, that's almost how I feel.

[00:52:51] Eldar: Yeah. Makes sense. 

[00:52:52] How do you tie fear into it? 

[00:52:55] Toliy: Yeah. It feels well, I mean, it feels like fear to me. It feels like some kind of there's something that I'm like almost like afraid of, or I don't even, but I don't even know that I'm afraid of it almost, and it's just yeah, it's bothering me, throughout, throughout the process. But I can't like, first off, my, my, my, my personality is definitely not to be like, all right that person's I don't know, like they're, they're a good score. I'm just not gonna play d defense on them.

[00:53:16] Like 

[00:53:17] I can't have that. I I can't just put it down, but then I also can't ignore it because I it creates a lot of suffering for me by ignoring it 

[00:53:25] Eldar: of course, 

[00:53:25] Toliy: as well. 

[00:53:27] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[00:53:27] Toliy: know, 

[00:53:27] Eldar: because on one hand you know that you can actualize yourself in that, in that fire. 

[00:53:31] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:53:31] Eldar: But you just don't know what to do. And you think that you're just not big enough or ready enough for that. 

[00:53:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:37] Eldar: That new identity. It does 

[00:53:38] Mike: fear. Maybe you feel like you're not prepared and you're like, uh, you are like, you wanna prepare for every single possible outcome for forever, for the rest of your life, but never uh, what is it?

[00:53:49] What's that move? Failure you Like, you, you want failure to launch. You want Yeah. Failure to launch. Yeah. You want to cut a thou you wanna measure a thousand times it never cut. Yeah. 

[00:53:57] Katherine: Fear or failure. It is just afraid of failing, I think. 

[00:54:01] Mike: And you're trying to get, like you said this before, this perfection thing.

[00:54:04] You're trying to get like to the perfect place where you think, yeah. Or maybe you're waiting for this aha moment where everything finally clicks, but it will never click until you start actually doing it. Making mistakes, learning on the job, fixing those mistakes and improving while you're on the thing, 

[00:54:20] Eldar: yeah, yeah, yeah. But. Yeah. What, what, 

[00:54:24] Toliy: what were you saying? 

[00:54:24] Eldar: I mean, if everything is tied to one thing of the outcome of he doesn't want to actualize because there's some kind of fear, then he's just not ready for the moment. 

[00:54:33] You know what I'm saying? 

[00:54:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:34] Eldar: Whatever that moment requires him to be ready.

[00:54:37] He's not ready for it. 

[00:54:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:38] Eldar: You know what I mean? And that's gonna continue to show that you're not ready for that primetime moment to shine. 

[00:54:43] You know what I mean? To take that winning shot. 

[00:54:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:46] Eldar: And that's it. Yeah. And if you start examining, I mean, which we did, which I did a little bit, right.

[00:54:53] I mean, the stuff that's going out or like the things that he's actually did as an output from a person, a physical output, it's weak. 

[00:55:00] That person will never win in my eyes. 

[00:55:03] You know what I'm saying? 

[00:55:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:05] Eldar: That's how I feel. But that's the translation of what's actually going on on the inside and on the inside is fear.

[00:55:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:12] Eldar: And it's, the output is it's correct. 

[00:55:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? The logic is logic. The logic is loging. 

[00:55:19] Yeah. He's exactly where he's supposed to be. 

[00:55:21] Mike: Yeah. No, I think that's comforting. Well, in a, in a bad way. 

[00:55:26] Eldar: Well, at least you know the culprit. Yeah. The thing is, now that the conversation has been had, now you have to kind of like, either you, shit or get off the pot, they say, right.

[00:55:35] Mike: Oh yeah, I heard that before. 

[00:55:37] Eldar: You shit. Or you get off the pot. 

[00:55:38] Mike: Yeah. Well, somebody else else have a turned. 

[00:55:41] Eldar: Yeah. And that's what, that's what it is. 

[00:55:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:44] Eldar: Now he has to face the music. 

[00:55:46] Mike: He's pulling a tommy on that V one where he wants to climb to the last, last, last first to last hold. And that's you and that 

[00:55:54] Eldar: finish shit.

[00:55:55] Yeah. 

[00:55:57] Mike: He just wants to touch the starts. He doesn't want to climb. 

[00:56:00] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the same belief in yourself of taking that shot or any other thing. 

[00:56:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:56:06] Eldar: If you don't have that thing, you know what I mean? It'll translate everywhere else. Yeah. It'll touch everything 

[00:56:13] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:56:13] In 

[00:56:13] Eldar: your life. 

[00:56:13] Toliy: But ag but again, it's hard because I also know the feeling of for example now and that I do want the last shot and I'm very confident in making it. And there's there's no feeling that, that, that's better in that realm at that time than making that shot and doing that.

[00:56:27] And

[00:56:27] Mike: yeah. 

[00:56:28] Toliy: But 

[00:56:28] Mike: that's a fantasy. But that's, 

[00:56:30] Toliy: but that's also 

[00:56:30] Mike: in that realm. 

[00:56:31] Toliy: No, no. It's not a fantasy. I'm saying that I have felt that already, 

[00:56:34] Mike: but that's, yeah. But those things are not related. I, I can I have fear of maybe taking that shot, but I can do something that you, you guys would be like.

[00:56:44] I'll never wanna do this in my life. This is scary as fuck. 

[00:56:46] Yeah. 

[00:56:47] But I take it on because I feel more confident in that area. Like you want to say, somebody's yo, you gotta give you a hundred million dollar loan tomorrow, to do this, do that now. Okay, I'll take it. I'll do it. Yeah. Or you'd be like, I don't wanna get involved in this.

[00:56:58] This sounds scary as shit. I'm willing to take on risk in that. I'm willing to take on the pressure in that because I feel more confident in that area. 

[00:57:04] Eldar: Correct.

[00:57:05] Mike: You feel more confident in basketball than you doing this, for example. That's why you feel like that. 

[00:57:09] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:57:09] Mike: But you didn't get to the basketball thing and it didn't give you, it didn't, doesn't, like one key doesn't lock all the, unlock all the doors.

[00:57:17] Toliy: So it doesn't unlock all the doors, but the reason I one, well, one of, one of the reasons why I brought this topic up, I think to be, to begin with is because I feel like, I think there is a, um, a, uh, a general mindset that that pe that people do grow to have where they do even on different topics like attack things in similar ways, like it, it's, it more becomes an a, um, like an identity of who you are and your identity gets plugged into.

[00:57:49] Sure. But 

[00:57:50] Mike: when, when will that translate over? Also, how many, how many level, how many other things you have to have that mentality that you have in basketball, do you have in other areas? And then how many of those have to all come together so you can have a much more. Confident approach to anything that you're gonna 

[00:58:05] Eldar: face.

[00:58:06] Mike: Yeah. It's it's not just 

[00:58:07] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:58:07] Mike: just 

[00:58:07] Eldar: throwing the basketball into the fucking hoop. It's like that's You've been graduated. That's fucking 

[00:58:11] Toliy: first grade. No, I'm saying that it's a, um, that what, what, what to me here is like the, uh, the, um, the, the change here is that it's like an a, a, uh, identity change that anything that you get into or participate and do you carry that same type of a attitude and mindset into it.

[00:58:30] Versus you're not gonna I I, I would think at least right, you, you don't wanna live your life like restarting the whole process of progress. Right. Oh, but that's what it 

[00:58:38] Eldar: sounds like. 

[00:58:39] Toliy: No. Well, no. Sure. But I'm there like in 

[00:58:42] Mike: a different realm. It's almost so Sounds you starting from level, from the ground zero.

[00:58:46] If I tell, they're like, all right, elder, I'm an expert in this. Yeah. You need to learn this. Yeah. Have to start, start from zero because you don't 

[00:58:53] Toliy: have any 

[00:58:54] Mike: base 

[00:58:54] Toliy: start. Well, no, you could start to from zero, but that, but the attitude in the mindset and the way that you go about doing it, I think that, that, that can carry over from things 

[00:59:03] Mike: to think.

[00:59:03] Yeah. I think some parts of it can, but not, not enough to like feel like, I'm not sure if you can feel instant confidence in front of any task that you can, the thing is 

[00:59:13] Eldar: the, the requirements. I think that the requirements that are necessary in order to be able to lock in and actually extract that, exactly what you're imagining in your head is immense.

[00:59:26] This is not like, all right, cool. Yeah. Once in a while, like i'll tinker here and there, I'll do this, I'll do that. This is a lifestyle, like change completely. Exactly. This is a lock in change. Yeah. This is not a

[00:59:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:59:36] Eldar: On basketball. Yeah, sure. 45 minutes I can lock in, you know what I mean?

[00:59:39] In a lifestyle change. 

[00:59:40] Toliy: Yeah. That's what I'm saying though. 

[00:59:41] Eldar: Like you gotta lock in like even the weight loss thing, right? Like that you're doing, how many months do you have to go in order to actually say, okay, like these are some results. And I actually feel exactly where I want it to be, like this months, but you have to lock in.

[00:59:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:54] Eldar: You can't just like, oh yeah, today I'll eat pizza. Like tomorrow, oh, I'll pick this up tomorrow. You know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. You, you never gonna get anywhere. Yeah. It requires like a step by step focus, zero in on it. To be able to really alright, cool.

[01:00:09] Mike: Yeah.

[01:00:10] Yeah. 

[01:00:10] Eldar: I, I know what I'm doing, I know what I'm progressing. Where it's like you creating the reality step by step, step-by-step. And any, any of those fears have to be left behind because they just don't have any room. I mean, they don't have any time. 

[01:00:21] Mike: Yeah. Yes. 

[01:00:22] Eldar: That, that there's no time to even think things through.

[01:00:25] Yeah. Or like you, you have not even time to think about other people or other people telling you what to do and you want some shit. 

[01:00:32] You know what I mean? 

[01:00:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:33] Eldar: And that requires a, a specific lock in and I don't think that you break any old identities or habits without doing that. 

[01:00:38] Toliy: Yeah. No, no, I agree with that.

[01:00:40] And I'm trying to figure out is how do I get. How, how, how, how can I lock in in that kind of way? 

[01:00:47] Mike: I think, I think like to me, 

[01:00:49] Eldar: I mean that's, that's, I mean Go ahead, Mike. 

[01:00:52] Mike: I think to me, what, when you were saying about the lock in, I think about the opposite, right? If a person doesn't have patience, if that's one of their weak qualities, I guess, something, you don't just develop patient, you don't just have oh, I'm extremely patient and, and impatient and everything, but one thing I'm patient in.

[01:01:10] I don't think that's like how it works. I think you're just generally an impatient person and you have that trait of being impatient. And I think that spills over into all areas of your life, right? 

[01:01:21] Toliy: Well, yeah, but, but see, I was saying the same thing. You, you were just disagreeing with me. I, I, I, I was saying that like the mindset change or the, or the, if you adapt that kind of attitude or personality. Yeah. It spills into anything good or or bad. 

[01:01:34] Mike: No, the thing is, bad things happen a lot of times without our choice. You can't accidentally do. Right. But you can accidentally do wrong. Like more like that. Like where it's not a very conscious choice. You're not really like

[01:01:53] making the, like making a logical choice. A right choice requires thought and calculation and, and processing, 

[01:02:00] Toliy: right? Well, no, not necess, not ne necessarily. 

[01:02:04] Mike: Uh, if you, if you're, if you, in the beginning. When you develop the ability to use logic? 

[01:02:09] Toliy: No, I think later on can you be that kind of uh, 

[01:02:12] Mike: then you can become automated?

[01:02:13] Toliy: No. Later on you actually can I mean, like PPP people can do like right or wrong things. I, I think like without having the conscious thought, like on, on both sides, 

[01:02:26] Mike: no, I don't think so. 

[01:02:27] Toliy: To, to, to me, like your attitude and how you are and how you go about things in good and bad ways. Very much so.

[01:02:35] I think spills, spills into the different things that it should do. 

[01:02:41] Like I, I, I don't see how you wouldn't be able to carry over those things. 

[01:02:46] Mike: Yeah. I, I don't, I don't I don't think that that's how it works. I don't think you could like, uh, accidentally do the right thing. I agree with that.

[01:02:56] Toliy: Well, for like long sustained periods of time Sure. But not for, for uh, for one-offs. I think you can 

[01:03:02] Mike: How would that, how would that look? You just like randomly guessing okay, cool, this was like good decision. I guess doing the right thing is a calculated effort. You have to like, think about the process, think about logical steps, think about how it's gonna affect, I think 

[01:03:15] Toliy: it has to be that way.

[01:03:16] Like someone could do the right thing because I, I dunno, let's just say they were taught something and that, and that thing was right. Yeah. 

[01:03:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:22] Toliy: But the process was already done. Taught it was No, but they but they're not consciously thinking about it 

[01:03:25] Eldar: anymore. Anymore. 

[01:03:26] Toliy: Yeah. No, they never have. Because like for example, if they were taught, well, they were raised, let's just say from a young age to do things a particular way.

[01:03:33] See, 

[01:03:33] Eldar: I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm not sure if the raising part is, uh, you minimizing the raising part. I think that a person or a parent who's teaching their kid like, okay, we're, we're not gonna hurt these animals or these bugs or whatever. Yeah. I, I don't think they just said, Hey, just don't hurt those animals.

[01:03:46] Don't step on them. 

[01:03:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:47] Eldar: And walked away. I think they explained reasons behind as to why shouldn't 

[01:03:51] Toliy: No, but I'm 

[01:03:51] Eldar: saying we shouldn't do this. 

[01:03:52] Toliy: That that kid is not consciously, I don't think turning on that. Like they, they, well, 

[01:03:56] Eldar: I think then you underestimating our, I mean, our abilities completely. 

[01:04:00] Mike: The kid is actually very much absorbing everything that's being said.

[01:04:04] Hyper and the view can process. No, 

[01:04:07] Toliy: sure. But I don't think only, only You don't there 

[01:04:09] Mike: a reason to that? 

[01:04:10] Toliy: No. I think when you're an adult like when you're a kid, I think that you're more likely to faster adopt automated ways of doing things than conscious. 

[01:04:20] Eldar: Sure. And most, and most of them are wrong.

[01:04:23] Toliy: Sure. 

[01:04:23] Eldar: Yeah. Well, that's what Mike is arguing for and I think that you can't just come across 

[01:04:27] Toliy: No, but it could also be Right, but they're not consciously like saying that 

[01:04:29] Eldar: Because they've already automated it by first, the first thing was to understand it and okay, like this is the right thing to do.

[01:04:37] And then it became automated after repetition. 

[01:04:40] Toliy: No, so you, you don't think that for example, there's kids who are like hey, they're like respectful and they would just grew up to be like their parents. 

[01:04:47] Eldar: No, it's impossible. This is impossible just to be respectful. Just 

[01:04:50] Mike: because it would never last.

[01:04:52] Yeah, it would 

[01:04:52] Toliy: never last. Not not just because, just because like you, you were raised in that kind of way to do things, but you may not even know that. Like 

[01:04:59] Mike: you, your parents would quote unquote respect, but there's no guarantee that you'll actually respect other things, beings, other people. It, it could be just to act in your family.

[01:05:08] I mean, plenty of families act all the time. 

[01:05:10] Eldar: No, I don't think it just, just a random thing where it's okay, they're just doing the right thing. Just because. No, absolutely. I 

[01:05:16] Mike: don't think so. 

[01:05:16] Toliy: I, I think that you need to be an adult to like, to, to con consciously, set out to do something almost, 

[01:05:25] Eldar: uh, 

[01:05:26] Toliy: con like consciously, 

[01:05:27] Eldar: I think that we're conscious beings when we're born. Most of the time when you start talking, start reading, start, start deducing shit. We're conscious already. 

[01:05:36] Toliy: Well, you 

[01:05:36] Eldar: know what I mean? 

[01:05:37] Toliy: I'm sure, but I'm, but there's difference between absorbing 

[01:05:39] Eldar: information, a child processing information versus a, an adult.

[01:05:42] I, I, I 

[01:05:43] Toliy: think so. Yeah. I, 

[01:05:45] Eldar: I think that adults by far are the disadvantage. 

[01:05:48] Mike: Yeah. I have too many years of going the wrong way. 

[01:05:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:52] Mike: And too much automated. Again, the automations are the automations. 

[01:05:57] Eldar: Sure. So how do we get here with this kids and fear? 

[01:06:02] Why are we talking about it?

[01:06:06] Mike: I don't remember how we got here. 

[01:06:08] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about TOS locking in. 

[01:06:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:06:13] Eldar: Right. How do you actually lock in? 

[01:06:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:06:16] Eldar: For him, I think that without actual obsessive dedication 

[01:06:22] To, to execution, there's no, there's no way you can, you can just come about some success. 

[01:06:29] Mike: Oh, we, we got to this point because he was saying like, Hey, I'm locked in on basketball.

[01:06:33] Yeah. I should be able to lock in on anything else. 

[01:06:35] Toliy: No, no, no, 

[01:06:36] Mike: no. I'm saying that I 

[01:06:37] Toliy: think it's possible to have a certain way that you go about things. And when you do new things you can carry over that attitude and that, that mindset, it does not mean that you would need to, I'm not saying that like you automatically just become an expert at everything.

[01:06:51] But I'm saying that for, for example,

[01:06:53] Eldar: Yeah. If, if and I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna beat you to the analogy. 

[01:06:55] Toliy: Okay? 

[01:06:56] Eldar: Okay. If you know how to, how to ride a horse, but you don't know how to swim, you're not just gonna jump over the docking, but like with the same confidence you rode the horse, right?

[01:07:03] Toliy: Uh, yeah. 

[01:07:04] Eldar: If you do, what happens? 

[01:07:06] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, 

[01:07:07] Eldar: you drown, 

[01:07:07] Toliy: you're gonna Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna fail. 

[01:07:09] Eldar: There you go. 

[01:07:10] Toliy: Yeah. No, my, my, no, my ex, my, my example is that for example, if you do stuff, uh, I dunno, if you're a person that does something with like if you're a resilient person right? And you do stuff with a particular grid or something, right?

[01:07:23] I think that you can go do new things and bring the resiliency and the grit into those things while learning them. 

[01:07:30] Mike: Oh, wow. 

[01:07:30] Toliy: And

[01:07:31] Mike: that's possible. 

[01:07:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like why, why 

[01:07:33] Mike: not? You can maybe have, be more resilient, have more grit than some people, but you can't, like being, being like an expert mechanic 

[01:07:44] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:07:44] Mike: Is not gonna help you at, uh, yeah. That's breeding catfish. That's what I'm saying though. Breeding catfish. 

[01:07:49] Toliy: Yeah. But that's not what I'm saying. 

[01:07:50] Mike: He's just saying a mindset. He said bring over the, like the, yeah. 

[01:07:53] Toliy: Resiliency, resilience, for example, right? Like if, if like failing, if, if yeah, if if you're not n notoriously bad, for example, at like failure uhhuh, I think in the different things that you do, they'll, they'll if you do fail, you will probably struggle, for example.

[01:08:07] But if you're notoriously for example, good. Would failure or if you're like resilient or does for example, how 

[01:08:12] Mike: does, how do you think like a resilience get built? 

[01:08:17] Toliy: How, how, how does resilience gets built? Built? 

[01:08:20] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:08:22] Toliy: How does resilience get built? 

[01:08:24] Eldar: Yeah. Because also resilience is sure.

[01:08:26] You might have, resilience for basketball is one. Resilience. Yeah. But resilience for building a rocket is another resilience. 

[01:08:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:08:34] Eldar: So, no, it 

[01:08:34] Mike: gets built in the action. You cannot No, what I'm talking about get the confidence or the resilience or the grit without going and doing that action. 

[01:08:41] Toliy: No, but I'm 

[01:08:41] Mike: saying is so coming into it and feeling yo, I'm resilient.

[01:08:44] I'm gonna fucking ace this rocket building thing is, is like a no. 

[01:08:47] Toliy: But that No, but that's not 

[01:08:47] Mike: what Wrong mentality. 

[01:08:48] Toliy: I think you're defining the word resilient wrong here. 

[01:08:51] I'm saying, yeah. I just don't see how tying something to acing it and saying that you're just gonna ace it, make, makes any sense here.

[01:09:00] To, to me it's for example, if you're resilient at something 

[01:09:03] I think it means that like you can go through the failures and you can kind of like bounce back and you have grit and say, but what 

[01:09:11] Mike: does it mean to go through the failures? 

[01:09:14] Toliy: What, what does it mean? Say 

[01:09:15] Mike: what is actually going through the failures fail.

[01:09:17] Toliy: What does that 

[01:09:17] Mike: mean? 

[01:09:18] Toliy: Well, failing. Well failing. And, and so 

[01:09:19] Mike: in order to fail, you have to try. Right? 

[01:09:21] Toliy: Of course. 

[01:09:21] Mike: So how could you, how could you be resilient in one thing that you have never tried before? If you've never 

[01:09:27] Toliy: failed that you could have, you could, you could be okay with the failing process of, of it and not let that deter you.

[01:09:33] Where some people will get deterred at the failing. 

[01:09:36] Mike: Some people will get the try to failing. Okay. 

[01:09:38] Toliy: Yeah. If you're a resilient person, for example. Someone's Hey, I'm gonna task you with learning. Ping pong. Right? And let's say ping pong is very hard. And you're, and you're terrible at it.

[01:09:48] Right. A resilient person can get through the failures and put, and then eventually get, put themselves in a position where they succeed. Where a person who's likely to give up, for example. Or like they, I don't know, let's say they have low self-esteem, right? They, they're more likely to give up in the process, or they're more likely to like get frustrated faster.

[01:10:08] Eldar: How do I, I think that you underestimate the, how resilience translates from one task to another. 

[01:10:13] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:10:14] Eldar: I think that just because I'm resilient in basketball, well, sure, I can be resilient in basketball, but I don't give a fuck about breeding turtles. I don't give a fuck about that. Yeah. So, 

[01:10:26] Toliy: yeah. But that 

[01:10:26] Eldar: if you're gonna me a non thing, if you're gonna task me to do that.

[01:10:29] Right? I like, I'm sure my resiliency is gonna be like very short. Like it's gonna have be a short fuse there. Yeah. Right. Where I give you a little bit No, bringing 

[01:10:37] Toliy: a bad example. 

[01:10:39] Eldar: No, but I'm saying that there's, there's 

[01:10:40] Toliy: one thing you want to do and another thing you're being forced to do. For 

[01:10:43] example, 

[01:10:43] Eldar: you No, but there's, I think there's different variables, right?

[01:10:46] I think there's different variables 

[01:10:47] Toliy: that play well. No. For example, you're a competitive person, right? 

[01:10:49] Eldar: Sure. 

[01:10:50] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:10:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:51] Toliy: You, you're gonna bring in your competitive mindset in the different things that you, that you want to do. 

[01:10:55] Eldar: If yes, if there's actually, that's what I want to do. 

[01:10:58] Toliy: That's what I'm saying. 

[01:10:59] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:11:00] Toliy: You're 

[01:11:00] Eldar: never, if I wanna do 

[01:11:01] Toliy: it, you climb and be like, Hey, 

[01:11:02] Eldar: maybe yes, 

[01:11:03] Toliy: I'm just gonna get shit on here. 

[01:11:03] Eldar: Right? But 

[01:11:04] Toliy: you, you're 

[01:11:04] Eldar: not that guy. But Totally. But it's also I can bring that stuff, but i'm, I'm also limited in the variables that are inside of me just because I, I brought maybe my competitive spirit to rock climbing.

[01:11:14] I, maybe I couldn't bring it to biking, you know what I'm saying?

[01:11:17] Well, 

[01:11:17] Toliy: no, 

[01:11:18] Eldar: but you bring it. But 

[01:11:18] Toliy: You didn't wanna to biking. No, but unless you really wanted to do it. 

[01:11:21] Eldar: Well, that's a big factor. 

[01:11:22] Toliy: Well, that's what I'm saying though. Factor that you want to do, right? 

[01:11:26] Eldar: Yeah. But then, then resiliency doesn't matter.

[01:11:28] Yeah. But 

[01:11:28] Toliy: No, but it's an attitude that you have because, but there's also people that want to do particular things. 

[01:11:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:11:33] Toliy: But they fail at them and then they can't handle like the, like the failure. They can't handle those kind of things and they're very fast to give up. 

[01:11:40] Mike: Okay. I, um, I think that I think also a factor here is, I think what you're talking about is there's a person who's fundamentally, who's like the foundation of that individual is maybe these good qualities, these virtues or values you're describing, right?

[01:11:57] I think that, that, that's um, a foundation of that person 

[01:12:02] Toliy: and Absolutely. 

[01:12:03] Mike: And I think that's a very, that's a very difficult thing to do. 

[01:12:06] Toliy: Well that, that, that's what I'm saying here is that

[01:12:08] Mike: what, 

[01:12:08] Toliy: what, 

[01:12:09] Mike: but the problem is people don't go and build the foundation. They go and I'm gonna go try this.

[01:12:15] I'm gonna go try that. I'm gonna go do this, I'm gonna go do that. You bring in your bad habits with a, but just because you have a good foundation in basketball. It doesn't mean you have a good foundation everywhere. And 

[01:12:26] Toliy: I'm a hundred percent 

[01:12:27] Mike: agreeing with that. And that's what, that's what's happening. So I don't believe they translate because the foundation, it has to be in just your foundation of who you are as an individual, and to make that, that's like a complete dedication and focus on to build that.

[01:12:40] Yeah. So like you, it's the example, the the analogy is you're not gonna build a house and start doing the roof or the walls before you do the foundation. And I think a lot of times that's what people are trying to do. 

[01:12:54] Toliy: Trying to, yeah. I'm not saying that here. I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm in agreeance with, with, with that I'm saying, is that like what, what what I'm thinking about and what I'm trying to, to, to do is to I don't want to go go my life trying to solve or go on the new quest and start from zero at like every, every everything I do.

[01:13:12] I wanna try, try, try to figure out how to put myself in a position where I, I just I'm a particular type of person 

[01:13:18] And I can bring that, uh, attitude in the things that I want to do. 

[01:13:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:13:23] Toliy: So I'm definitely acknowledging that. Um, yeah. That's a fundamental shift and that's who you are as a person, and then you can bring that who you are into the different things that you do.

[01:13:31] Mike: But, but the thing is, yeah. See, you're like, right now you are, let's just say you're working on outbound sales, right? This is what you're doing. But you are building the walls of the house. You're not building the character that is required to be to have the foundation, to have the, the, the, the character traits.

[01:13:52] Toliy: No, but what are you 

[01:13:53] Mike: that just apply themselves in that? No, 

[01:13:55] Toliy: no. But are you telling me that? Are you asking me? 

[01:13:56] Mike: I'm, yeah, that's, well, that's what I'm asking, but I'm also saying is that's what's happening. 

[01:14:00] Toliy: Well, no, what I'm saying is that, like my whole life Yeah. But that, that, that, that to me is not, not what's going on.

[01:14:06] Because like my whole life and the different things that I've done 

[01:14:09] I've been trying to build that, that that which which is required to then actualize a different things that I want to do. It's not like I'm trying to do things that I wanna do, but not addressing the underlying I issues behind it to, yeah.

[01:14:23] To, to me, like my whole life progression has been um, trying to do those things. Which then I, I've always said that like my, my, my self-development has always translated into old different things 

[01:14:35] That like I touch and that like I do. 

[01:14:37] Mike: But the thing you're approaching now, are you looking at it again from a foundational point?

[01:14:41] Or are you looking at it from the, of the different point, is what I'm asking? 

[01:14:44] Toliy: Well, so I, I've looked at it in both ways. Okay. And I've gone the other route. 

[01:14:49] Right. I've find myself always landing back in the same place. Where it's not like that, and I, and, and like what, what I said like this time around, I'm trying to figure out like.

[01:14:59] What's blocking me and what's going on. So I, I I, I, I feel like at least that I am trying to approach it from the, um, the foundational like way. 

[01:15:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:10] Toliy: Because I've also tried It's 

[01:15:11] Eldar: not, but it's not showing. Yeah. 

[01:15:13] Toliy: Well, yeah, sure. I'm trying to figure out 'cause you 

[01:15:14] Eldar: calling those guys Yeah. For 

[01:15:16] Toliy: example.

[01:15:16] Well, no, I don't do that now I'm saying that before I did that. 

[01:15:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:20] Toliy: Right. And, and I've gotten that place and I've went back in that circle and realized that hey, this is what happened. 

[01:15:25] But I don't do that now, is what I'm saying. 

[01:15:28] Eldar: Okay. So you're trying to do it, do it now 

[01:15:31] Toliy: what?

[01:15:32] Eldar: From the foundation? From from the foundation? 

[01:15:34] Toliy: Well, no, but I feel like I've been building foundational things over like the years, but I have veered off in, in, in those other, uh, side quests, I guess, if you wanna call it. Yeah. And then I return back from the side quest and I'm like, Hey, it's not it.

[01:15:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:49] Toliy: Yeah. And then it, and then it leads me to obviously question why, and then I go into figuring out, trying to figure out why. And I go and I go and I go and I rule out different things along the way. 

[01:15:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:00] Toliy: Um, 

[01:16:00] Eldar: yeah. You, you, you just, you just have to set yourself and that, and now you're setting up a trap for yourself.

[01:16:04] Toliy: Well, well, 

[01:16:05] Eldar: you, well you can't leave. 

[01:16:06] Toliy: Well, yeah, sure. So then that, that's what I'm saying is that like the, the topic of fear to me was big because I feel like I circled around and I can only resort back to thinking about only res uh, come back to thinking about foundational issues. 

[01:16:20] Right. As to what's going on here and yeah. 

[01:16:23] Eldar: And what is going on then? 

[01:16:25] Toliy: I don't know that, that, that's what I'm trying to figure out. And to me, if it the feeling was, was that it was a fear re related thing. 

[01:16:34] Eldar: Well, yeah. That's why you were saying like, yo, I just have to do it. I just have to do it.

[01:16:38] Like you kept saying that. 

[01:16:39] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:16:39] Eldar: Yeah. Like I had enough of listening to these people, had enough of researching them and following them. 

[01:16:44] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:16:44] Eldar: Right. And, and taking like a, like a spectator's, uh, job. 

[01:16:48] Mike: Mm. 

[01:16:48] Eldar: Sitting on the sidelines watching somebody else shoot the ball. Yeah. I'll play the game.

[01:16:51] Yeah. What am I doing? Yeah. He is I just have to do it. 

[01:16:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:16:54] Eldar: And that's, that's the answer,

[01:16:57] Mike: yeah. 

[01:16:58] Eldar: Right. But but the thing is just to do it is also okay, apply, apply that what you, what, what do you mean by that's what you know to doing it. 

[01:17:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:17:07] Eldar: And then when you start getting the, when you start seeing what you've done and you start seeing the results, they don't add up.

[01:17:14] So you don't know shit. 

[01:17:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:17:16] Eldar: So then you have to go back to the lab again 

[01:17:18] And restart everything again. 

[01:17:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:17:19] Eldar: To prove yourself wrong again. 

[01:17:21] Mike: Yes. Well, if you're proving yourself wrong, then that's, that. That's, that's a very, 

[01:17:25] Eldar: yeah. I mean, it's thing, tell, tell. It's a tell telling thing. It's tell, tell, tell thing.

[01:17:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:17:30] Eldar: That's it. I mean, I mean, to me at least the picture is pretty clear. 

[01:17:35] Or to you is not clear. 

[01:17:38] Toliy: Like clear what? And 

[01:17:40] Eldar: like what needs to be done or like what you've been like after and what, what you're not doing. 

[01:17:44] Toliy: Well, I'm definitely like, I, I think I mo I like, I think every time we, we talk about it, I think I agree with you.

[01:17:53] Eldar: Yeah. You definitely, you, you like, yeah, I agree with you. And like you say, like this is what needs to be done. 

[01:17:57] Toliy: But yeah, I feel yeah, I probably need to be, um,

[01:18:03] Um, reminded prob probably and like address more frequently so that I then don't, don't, don't need to 

[01:18:09] Eldar: see the thing is that's the problem. What'd 

[01:18:11] Mike: he say? 

[01:18:12] Eldar: He's I need to be reminded not to weer off onto the, and to being a pussy. Yeah. That's the problem. And not a starter. You know what I mean?

[01:18:18] That's 

[01:18:18] Mike: the, that's the same thing 

[01:18:20] Eldar: we 

[01:18:20] Mike: spoke about 

[01:18:21] Eldar: earlier. He's just, he's on the bench. 

[01:18:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:23] Eldar: I'm always gonna go to the bench. I'm gonna be the 11th man on the bench. Yeah. I'm not gonna be a starter here. 

[01:18:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:28] Eldar: Self-starter who's gonna always gonna be picked by the coach. 

[01:18:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:31] Eldar: You know what I mean? I need to be reminded.

[01:18:33] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:18:34] Eldar: If you if you don have that mindset that you need to be reminded, like you don't get the point. Well, I'm trying. What that means is that you, what you're telling me, you're telling me that you're not a leader and you want, you want, you need me to tell you what to do. 

[01:18:47] Toliy: No, I like, for, for me, I feel um, for 

[01:18:54] Eldar: You don't have it.

[01:18:54] Like you're not it, you're not him as they say. You know what I mean? 

[01:19:00] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, look, obviously right now, but I feel like I can be, uh, well, 

[01:19:04] Mike: now we're talking about potential. 

[01:19:07] Eldar: Yeah, 

[01:19:08] Toliy: yeah, 

[01:19:08] Eldar: yeah. Sure. Yeah. 

[01:19:11] Toliy: Well, no, not, not, not potentials that, like I'm trying to get to that point, but I don't know, like 

[01:19:17] If you can get to that point, obviously without going through the progressions of, uh, 

[01:19:23] Eldar: of what 

[01:19:25] Toliy: Well, of, um, of, of, of putting like your, your thoughts into actions and then having them prove, prove out. 

[01:19:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:37] Toliy: Right.

[01:19:42] Eldar: Yeah, yeah,

[01:19:51] yeah. The results 

[01:19:52] are the results. You know what I mean? 

[01:19:55] Yeah. 

[01:19:57] Another problem is, is you might have not seen enough data yourself to see that it's possible. So therefore you can't be a pioneer and that yourself, you can't pioneer it. You know what's a pioneer, Mike? 

[01:20:10] Christopher Columbus was a pioneer. 

[01:20:12] Mike: He broke through the rock. So discover. Yeah. 

[01:20:15] Eldar: Discover it.

[01:20:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[01:20:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:17] Eldar: Your own success. 

[01:20:18] Mike: Oh, yeah. 

[01:20:19] Eldar: So you always gotta look up to the next man, 

[01:20:22] Mike: of course. 

[01:20:22] Eldar: For direction. 

[01:20:23] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:20:25] Yeah. And, 

[01:20:26] and the times again that, that, it goes back to the same thing of like the foundation of knowing your own identity. Who are you? Are you a person who's just gonna, gonna pioneer it because you are gonna, you set yourself a goal and you're gonna crack it, whatever it takes.

[01:20:42] Figure out what's you're gonna figure it out and learn on the job. Fail, succeed, fail, succeed. But on your own kind of terms and with your own accord, and break through that fucking problem. Well, that's 

[01:20:52] Eldar: been happening though. Yeah. That's the thing. He's been on his own accord. 

[01:20:54] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:20:55] Eldar: And he keeps coming back to the same thing.

[01:20:56] He keeps saying that I have to keep, asking someone else. 

[01:20:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:59] Eldar: Externally for myself. 

[01:21:00] Toliy: No, no. Then for 

[01:21:01] Eldar: direction, 

[01:21:01] Toliy: no. Then I don't feel that way now. 

[01:21:03] Eldar: Oh yeah. You broke that recently. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 

[01:21:05] Toliy: Yeah. I don't feel I 

[01:21:06] Eldar: remember. Yeah. 

[01:21:07] Toliy: Yeah. I don't feel that way now. Um, but I, I, I do agree with the lock-in and the dedication of what?

[01:21:13] Of what, of what you're talking about. And I, but 

[01:21:15] Eldar: that only also comes from like Right. The type of lock-in that I'm talking about. Yeah. I'm not talking about sitting here fucking working 12 hours a day. I'm not talking about that kind of shit. 

[01:21:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:26] Eldar: I'm talking about a curiosity type of quest. 

[01:21:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:28] Eldar: That requires you to be like, oh shit, I'm having fun here. Time is going 

[01:21:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:34] Eldar: It's passing by. Yeah. You creating shit, you sending it out there into the world and making an impressionable statement 

[01:21:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:42] Eldar: Upon the world. 

[01:21:43] Mike: Yeah. And the thing 

[01:21:43] Eldar: is, and, and, and the time just goes because, yeah. But you are in it.

[01:21:47] Mike: But what you're saying is, again, it's uh. 

[01:21:51] Eldar: I'm telling you, this is the fucking answer to the fucking whole thing. 

[01:21:53] Mike: I agree. But that the thing is that curiosity only exists in that place. 

[01:21:57] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:21:58] Mike: In that foundational place. It doesn't exist in 

[01:22:00] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:22:00] Mike: In making sales or learning about sales strategies No.

[01:22:03] Or sales calls. No. Yeah. Or basketball or getting a better shot. 

[01:22:07] Toliy: I, I, I, I completely agree with that because I've also gone the other way and I've proved myself wrong. 

[01:22:12] Mike: Yes. 

[01:22:13] Toliy: On, on, on trying to attack it a different way. 

[01:22:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:17] Eldar: Yeah. The tools, the tools are here. 

[01:22:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:20] Eldar: The resources are here. 

[01:22:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:21] Eldar: Everything is readily available.

[01:22:23] Mike: Ready? Yeah. 

[01:22:23] Eldar: Just like AI is, right? If you are dumb ass is gonna engage with ai, you ain't never gonna get anywhere. 

[01:22:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:29] Eldar: It doesn't matter what AI is, you know what I mean? Yeah. And how helpful it is and shit. 

[01:22:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:34] Eldar: If you're a dumb ass, you're a dumb ass. 

[01:22:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:35] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[01:22:37] Doesn't matter what kind of fucking sneakers you have on, you're not gonna be good at basketball just because you have Jordans on. No. So it's the same thing here. The type of lock-in, it's like, it's a combination of losing yourself completely 

[01:22:51] Mike: Yes. 

[01:22:51] Eldar: Of, of who you are. Letting go of that identity and having fun in the present moment.

[01:22:59] Being in the moment, yeah. For as long as possible to, to be able to then see for, and see and foresee the, the successes that come your way from it. 

[01:23:08] Toliy: Yeah. I guess that, that, yeah. That, that, that, 

[01:23:10] Eldar: but that requires, that requires a fucking aoc cult religious like fucking. You have to be a fanatic.

[01:23:17] Mike: You have to have 

[01:23:17] Eldar: for your own shit. 

[01:23:18] Mike: You have to have a a, a sword that's gonna dispel all your bullshit. That 

[01:23:21] Eldar: Yeah. You've been feeding yourself. 

[01:23:24] Toliy: Yeah. That's for your life. What I'm trying to figure out, I guess, is yeah, how, how to let go of that stuff that I'm holding onto,

[01:23:31] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. But if you don't have enough reasons to tell yourself that like enough is enough, then what, what else are you looking for?

[01:23:38] Who, who? What, what other words are you looking for? What other like motivational factors are you looking for? To be able to finally say, you know what, I'm breaking through and fuck everything else. Yeah. 

[01:23:48] Toliy: Yeah. And that, that's how I feel at times. 

[01:23:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:23:51] But 

[01:23:52] Toliy: that's 

[01:23:52] Eldar: like a short-lived like 

[01:23:53] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:23:53] Eldar: Like a little burst of oh, I got it. Like 

[01:23:55] Mike: in 

[01:23:55] Eldar: the middle of nowhere.

[01:23:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:23:56] Eldar: That does not 

[01:23:57] Mike: follow action. That's not, there's no like a, it's not as sustained and Yeah. Calculated like thing where you can, like elder with, uh, again, we use a sports as an example. We can, but elder doesn't need to say, okay, right now I'm in the basketball court.

[01:24:11] I need to lock in. I have to, I do that. I gotta come in, be like, yo, I have to set the intention elder's an autopilot and the way he approaches that. 

[01:24:18] Yeah. 

[01:24:18] And I think that's what, that's what we're talking about, an autopilot mentality. You don't need to lock in. You just are locked in because 

[01:24:28] Yeah.

[01:24:29] You have, you like the reasons 

[01:24:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:24:31] Mike: For, for you to lock in. They're not like, you don't even you can't even use words to describe why you have those reasons. There's no other way you can live your life without, other than doing this way. No, but this way. Yeah. 

[01:24:42] Toliy: No, for, no, but for, for, for sure. But I'm saying that 

[01:24:45] What we say in rock climbing?

[01:24:46] He 

[01:24:46] Mike: just 

[01:24:47] Eldar: don't want it. 

[01:24:48] Mike: Yeah. He just don't want 

[01:24:49] Eldar: it. You don't want it. 

[01:24:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:24:50] Toliy: Okay. Sure. Let's say I don't want it. How do I want it? Then? Can, can we get to there? 

[01:24:54] Eldar: I think, I think that's, you have to answer that to yourself. 

[01:24:57] Mike: Yeah. You 

[01:24:57] Eldar: have to figure out my, my, my, my job is to judge you. 

[01:25:00] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:25:01] Eldar: Right. When the kid goes on the wall.

[01:25:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:03] Eldar: And I see them like, ah, you know what I mean? Like completely jumping off. 

[01:25:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:06] Eldar: On the very you don't want it. Yeah. I can tell you don't want it because I know your skills. I've seen you, I've, I've watched you. 

[01:25:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:12] Eldar: I know. You can do it Uhhuh. You just don't want it. Yeah. I, I applied the same thing to me when I was working on that black one.

[01:25:17] Right? 

[01:25:17] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I 

[01:25:18] Eldar: remember. I know what I wanted. 'cause my stomach was pitting. 

[01:25:20] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:21] Eldar: I had a pit in my stomach. Yeah. I didn't want to touch the wall. 

[01:25:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:23] Eldar: I know. I don't want it. 

[01:25:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:25] Eldar: I'm a pussy and I call myself. Every time I get off, I'm like, I'm a pussy. 

[01:25:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:28] Eldar: And I got it because I then I wanted it. 

[01:25:30] Mike: Yeah.

[01:25:30] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because I applied that pressure upon myself. Uhhuh, but only you can, you can do that. You know what I mean? 

[01:25:35] Mike: Yeah. The ultimately it, it, what what it is, is again, is bringing out those demons that you thought, you might've thought. I don't know if you did think, but you might've thought that you already beat 

[01:25:47] Eldar: bro.

[01:25:47] Those things don't exist, 

[01:25:48] Mike: but for that person, they do exist. 

[01:25:51] Eldar: They don't, but they don't exist, so you can't even bring them out. 

[01:25:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:54] Eldar: To speak like that is to say like we have to give some kind of a lip. They don't exist. None of it exists. 

[01:25:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:01] Eldar: That's it. The desires and the curiosity to find out.

[01:26:05] You know what I mean? Yeah. What that feels like or what that looks like. 

[01:26:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:09] Okay. I, I agree. 

[01:26:11] Eldar: But that's, that's being him again. 

[01:26:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:14] Eldar: That's being that 

[01:26:15] To actually go and do it. 

[01:26:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:18] Eldar: There's not, the world doesn't exist at that point. 

[01:26:20] Nothing exists. 

[01:26:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:23] Eldar: It was just you.

[01:26:25] I don't know how you get that attitude, you know what I mean? 

[01:26:28] Mike: You can't like, uh, fabricate 

[01:26:29] Eldar: curiosity. You cannot, you cannot fabricate that. You know what I mean? 

[01:26:32] Mike: And you can't force it. Yeah. 

[01:26:34] Eldar: I told you when I saw that thing, I was gonna create a new business. 

[01:26:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:37] Eldar: I'm in the middle of it. I'm stalling a little bit, but I'm gonna do it, and I have that fire and I'm gonna fucking do it.

[01:26:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:43] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? It's gonna work. It's gonna be fucking sh crazy good. 

[01:26:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:47] Eldar: Because I believe that. 

[01:26:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:48] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:26:49] And there's nobody can tell me otherwise. It's, it's there, it's burning and I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it. 

[01:26:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:54] Eldar: Like, how can you transfer that over to someone else?

[01:26:58] Like I, I, that's a belief in self. Yeah. That's an esteeming of self. 

[01:27:07] Mike: Yeah. Oh, it, it's very, it's a very strong stance. It's a very, like a, it's a very strong stance and.

[01:27:20] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like in the rock climbing, some days I feel like very confident about myself and I have a strong stance and some, sometimes, I'm like, you ask me that you're gonna finish. I'm like I, I tell you right away, I'm gonna finish this day. I'm gonna do it. Yeah. And I feel like I know it.

[01:27:35] I like, 

[01:27:36] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:27:36] Mike: I set my mind, but that's not always the case. That's not how I feel every time. It's probably not how I feel most of the time 

[01:27:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:42] Mike: When it comes to that, but Yeah. 

[01:27:45] Eldar: But you know it, 

[01:27:46] Mike: but I know it exists. I know it's possible. 

[01:27:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:48] Mike: And I want, obviously I'm keep pushing, keep pushing myself to face whatever's coming out, yeah. But I think that's ultimately what it is. Yeah. You want to, I dunno, free yourself. 

[01:28:02] Yeah.

[01:28:06] Free yourself and be yourself, I guess, who you actually want to be. 

[01:28:10] Toliy: Yeah. The, the, the thing is that there there's been multiple things. I feel like, similar types of feelings I've had, and I feel like I've, um,

[01:28:23] like I've been able to figure out what I've been missing in those things. 

[01:28:27] Eldar: Well give some examples then, so we can roll off those. 

[01:28:29] Toliy: I, I, I don't know. 

[01:28:31] Eldar: Well, what do you mean you don't know? You just said 

[01:28:32] Toliy: you Well, no, no, I'm saying that I, I.

[01:28:38] The recent one, I feel is like the weight loss thing. 

[01:28:41] I felt like that that was like a, uh,

[01:28:46] at one point I felt like it was a insurmountable, like there was too much to do, too much to change. Like it was impossible. 

[01:28:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:28:54] Yeah. 

[01:28:55] Toliy: And then it slowly became very possible. 

[01:28:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:28:58] Toliy: And then, and then after a while it also became like, it's not even possible. It just is very easy.

[01:29:06] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:29:07] So how did that you have, well, okay, then you have to examine how did it go from impossible to possible? 

[01:29:13] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well that, that for example is one example, another example.

[01:29:16] Eldar: But, 

[01:29:17] Toliy: um, 

[01:29:17] Eldar: okay. 

[01:29:17] Toliy: Well, but, but, but just wanna bring, bring in a few. When I was younger and you started to in, introduced me to philosophy for example.

[01:29:25] There was plenty of things that I viewed in life as impossible or not doable or things are supposed to work a particular way or, or like that kind of stuff. And then all those not all of them, but a lot of those things got completely dispelled over time.

[01:29:40] Um, where I felt so strongly about it one way and then then over time I grew to feel the complete opposite of, of that and the things that I felt were impossible were very possible. 

[01:29:54] Eldar: Yeah. But like, how is that an example of wanting something like like that's not a really good example of wanting that was just you, you ran into a wall, which was me at the time.

[01:30:03] I was the variable of not listening to your bullshit or challenging your bullshit of what you were saying. 

[01:30:09] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:30:09] Eldar: And we had a dialogue at which 

[01:30:12] Toliy: no, I wanted, no, but then I had a desire to to find out about all of these different things and then learn how they, like, how they what's actually true and what's not, not true.

[01:30:22] Okay. And 

[01:30:24] Eldar: why 

[01:30:24] Toliy: I felt like I had a relentless curiosity. 

[01:30:26] Eldar: Why? 

[01:30:28] Toliy: Because it was so interesting, it, it, it was 

[01:30:30] Eldar: just, and, but what were you getting out of it besides the fact that it was interesting? 

[01:30:34] Toliy: My life was changing 

[01:30:35] Eldar: for the better. 

[01:30:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:30:36] Eldar: Okay. So is that the remedy then? 

[01:30:44] Toliy: Yeah. Like same thing with the weight loss stuff.

[01:30:45] Thought it was impossible. 

[01:30:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:30:47] Toliy: Not gonna happen. 

[01:30:48] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:30:49] Toliy: It was, it was just, it was growing closer towards just like a, a acceptance with how things are versus any kind kind of change. I, I was definitely way more like there 

[01:30:58] Eldar: pessimistic, 

[01:30:58] Toliy: Yes. And then it turned around like probably a hundred times the speed as to what I thought it would take.

[01:31:05] Like beforehand, if you told me like, Hey, what is this scope gonna look, look like to get to this or to that. I scoped out a hundred x more difficulty than what it was. Probably, probably even more than that. 

[01:31:17] Eldar: Which you were doing the same thing with this process, with building your process. 

[01:31:22] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:31:22] Eldar: You're thinking about it, you are overthinking it, you are doing so much stuff and it's, yeah. Okay. 

[01:31:27] Toliy: Yeah. Um, that 

[01:31:29] Eldar: well then, okay, so then why did you want all these things? Like why did you wanna lose weight? Why did you wanna make your life more interesting or better? Like why, maybe it's the why, maybe you don't have a good enough why for this process?

[01:31:41] Like why do you want to build this? 

[01:31:43] Toliy: But I didn't, but I didn't have wise for those things until I feel like particular things like, uh, clicked. 

[01:31:50] Eldar: Like what? 

[01:31:51] Toliy: I don't know. And then I had it. So 

[01:31:54] Eldar: then, so then you're just shooting in the dark and just seeing I'm what's gonna stick? 

[01:31:58] Toliy: No, I'm not shooting in the dark 

[01:32:00] Eldar: if you don't know.

[01:32:01] Toliy: Well, no, I'm saying that I'm trying to recall as to what attitudes or mindset shifts happened and then the, the difficult things just became so effortless before I, and, and my mind did not catch up that hey, this is becoming effort. I wasn't like, um, it didn't feel like a gradual like thing of okay, this is like not that hard. Well, this is like moderately hard. Like it, it, it just became way easier than, um, I anticipated to, to be one once I got started. One once I, but what's the, 

[01:32:36] Eldar: what's the ingredient? 

[01:32:37] Toliy: Well, that's what I'm trying 

[01:32:38] Eldar: to figure out. Is the ingredient, the want and what's, why want it?

[01:32:41] Then to which degree do you need to actually want it to be, for it to be actually an effortless effort where it's oh, it's this is pretty simple. I got this. I'm just gonna keep going. 

[01:32:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:32:53] Eldar: Or you have to be, like we say curious, right, where we're talking about. Yeah. That's part of it. 

[01:32:58] Mike: But

[01:33:01] how do you get curious? Like 

[01:33:05] if, I guess how do you get curious if you thought, if you thought the answers was in one thing, but it's turning out that it's not.

[01:33:17] Yeah.

[01:33:21] Like you went on like a different route. Even though you already, let's just say quote unquote, you knew about this other formula, this o other way of approaching things, but you still went this way, right? Like, how do you, how do you go around that now? Because you already you went on this journey, you came back to this, now you're trying to reanalyze it.

[01:33:39] Toliy: Well, no, it wasn't, um, I mean, it was an ongoing journey for a while. 

[01:33:43] But just like over the course of the journey, my, my like mindset and ways of doing things have have changed. 

[01:33:50] But yeah, like I, I, I know, like I know towards this thing that I have felt this kind of way before where it's like a bit of a, um, at, at times, like a lost feeling, and then there were things that like 360, like the, the, the, the, the, the lost and like the feeling of lost or like frustration or difficulty to just like the complete opposite, 

[01:34:14] Eldar: So you're waiting for that moment? 

[01:34:15] Toliy: No, I'm not waiting for that moment. I'm trying to create it, I guess 

[01:34:19] Eldar: that's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking you to give details with the ingredients behind the other journeys, so you can see what's the pattern here. And why does it finally shift, like you said, right?

[01:34:28] Like what's the actual motivation behind it? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. The one thing part. 

[01:34:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:34:35] Eldar: When you wanted it. I think that obviously the, the best ingredients to want to do something. Then you bring the grit and all this other shit, focus and determination and all this other stuff because you actually want it.

[01:34:46] I think that your mind is set to actually we got this regardless of what it is, he's fucking fasting and shit. Like when did totally fast. You know what I mean? Like 

[01:34:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:34:53] Eldar: Yeah. Because he's he amped up his mind and his mind is now dictating the fucking behaviors and not his body. 

[01:34:58] Toliy: Yeah. Like I, I remember vividly at times I was like, Hey, like Monday, we're gonna just juice her fast.

[01:35:04] And it was like the most nightmare day of my life. Fucking drinking these juices and like this and that. He was doing it ea easy, yeah. I went to go buy the box from whole, whole foods of those fucking, 

[01:35:13] Eldar: I remember, 

[01:35:13] Toliy: Six ju juices. Yeah. That part I was excited about, uh, like volunteering for 

[01:35:17] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:35:17] Yeah. 

[01:35:18] Toliy: Then I'm just like, this fucking sucks, I can't do it. Do this. Yeah. I I remember feeling that and it was easy for eld and he is what do, well, it's one day, it's one day stop it,

[01:35:26] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:35:26] Toliy: Like that. And then I remember getting it, I almost felt like I was like, gonna die or something.

[01:35:31] I like 

[01:35:31] Eldar: Yeah, because you wasn't ready. 

[01:35:33] Toliy: Yeah. And now I'm voluntarily doing 

[01:35:35] Eldar: Yeah, no, 

[01:35:35] Toliy: you're 

[01:35:35] Eldar: like, no, I don't wanna do it. Yeah. 

[01:35:37] Toliy: That's it. Yeah. And, and I don't like, again, like 

[01:35:40] Eldar: Yeah. So again, he, well, that's the thing. It seems like there's a process of buildup for him, for all these different things that he's kind of like amping up for.

[01:35:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:35:48] Eldar: And then he finally takes that step that he needs to take in order to break through. 

[01:35:51] Toliy: And, and it never feels, it never feels, it never feels like there was like. Once it actually clicks. 

[01:35:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:35:59] Toliy: It like, it, it, it, it, it, it feels like a turbo boost, yeah. It doesn't feel that it doesn't feel like, Hey, this was like a slow, gradual process can All 

[01:36:09] Eldar: right, so that's it.

[01:36:10] So there's no fear, there's no nothing. There's no, you have no conversation here. We'll just wait. We'll just wait. 

[01:36:17] If he has no answers, he has no ingredients. He doesn't know when 

[01:36:20] Toliy: May, maybe there is, there is. 

[01:36:21] Eldar: I'm not like, there is no forcing this, yeah. You can't force, well, the thing is you cannot force this.

[01:36:25] This is impossible. Yeah. What's required 

[01:36:26] Toliy: Yeah. Is like the anxiety. We went in, in circles around it and we kept going to the same place. 

[01:36:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:32] Toliy: Right. And then I, I didn't know what I can actually do. 

[01:36:35] Eldar: Well, no, no. Anxie anxiety. There was a big piece where like at some point you got to a point where you started offending me and I unsubscribed, and then you had to deal with it by yourself.

[01:36:44] And then you realize that like you don't wanna deal with it by yourself anymore. You used to have friends us 

[01:36:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:36:49] Eldar: To bounce off of. And then we're like, yo, you know what, like I can't listen to this anymore. Enough is enough. 

[01:36:54] Get away from me. 

[01:36:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:36:55] Eldar: You're pissing me off, I'm off of it.

[01:36:57] We've digest just like certain conversations that we have with you. Of 

[01:37:00] Mike: course 

[01:37:00] Eldar: I'm off of it, Mike. 

[01:37:01] I don't want you to just keep telling me, oh, now I'm ready. Or no, that's it. Now you either do it or you don't. You know what I mean? No. Suffer by yourself. 

[01:37:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:37:08] Eldar: A lot of times people don't wanna suffer by themselves.

[01:37:10] You know what I mean? And if they do, they're gonna have a really hard time. 

[01:37:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:37:12] Eldar: I think that's what happened with the anxiety stuff, at least. It's I don't wanna fucking hear it. Figure this shit out. We already, we went in circles with this shit, we've realized that these fucking ghosts don't exist.

[01:37:23] Yeah. That said, we came to the same conclusion. Enough is enough. 

[01:37:25] And that's what happened. But these types of things are internal things that you do, you wrestle with by yourself. So you have to come to that same conclusion, just like you did with the weight stuff. Right. It finally switched.

[01:37:37] And whenever it's switched, it's finally now I have that grid determination. All that stuff just comes in organically. And you had enough. 

[01:37:45] Toliy: Yeah. And like when, when I look back at it right now for, for example yeah. I do remember going through all the stuff throughout the years of trying to do different things like diets and this and that.

[01:37:56] Like I can recall that. 

[01:37:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:57] Yeah. 

[01:37:58] Toliy: But I can't sit here and tell you that like the more I build up of the good, I almost don't remember that process anymore.

[01:38:05] Eldar: Well that, that's, that's the funny part. If you go back to these podcast, if you go back in the podcast, we had extensive conversations about this stuff.

[01:38:12] Yeah. And we talked about losing weight as a byproduct of something else. 

[01:38:16] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:38:16] Eldar: Of gaining enough knowledge of understanding yourself. Right. And then you are finally gonna take that leap of faith into yourself where you can do this organically. You know what I mean? Versus force. And I think he clicked that, finally clicked.

[01:38:28] But that was years ago. 

[01:38:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:38:30] Eldar: That's been building up. So if you're looking to lose 50, 60 pounds, go back to all the other episodes that we talk about. We have the answer without any diets. Yeah.

[01:38:38] Toliy: Yeah. So like when, yeah, when I look at it now, 

[01:38:41] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:38:41] Toliy: I'm, I'm not like, like I don't feel like we just climbed uh, Mount Everest?

[01:38:45] No. We just free solo that uh, what, what's that thing called? The, uh, 

[01:38:48] Eldar: cap. Oh, capper. 

[01:38:49] Toliy: Yeah. I don't feel that way. 

[01:38:50] Eldar: Oh, cocker 

[01:38:51] Toliy: like that.

[01:38:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:56] Toliy: I, I, yeah. Like I don't feel like it, it doesn't feel like they're like, I can remember you always have the same 

[01:39:01] Eldar: testimony, bro. 

[01:39:02] Toliy: No, I know. 

[01:39:02] Eldar: But every time you finish the shit or you in the middle of it where it's it's baffling to me that I was that fucking fat person. You know what mean, 

[01:39:08] Toliy: Some 

[01:39:09] Eldar: other 

[01:39:09] Toliy: shit.

[01:39:09] No. Because I also like on a lot of these topics, like once I actually conquer them. 

[01:39:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:39:14] Toliy: I remember you telling me for a long time of yo, this is not a big deal. This is not a big deal. Yeah. And I remember me saying, no, this is a big deal. This is a big deal. Yeah. Yes. And then when I actually do it, I'm like, right.

[01:39:23] It wasn't that big of a deal. 

[01:39:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:39:25] Yes. 

[01:39:25] Toliy: But then I, then I have that, then I have that mindset of okay, I'm in full agreeance. I completely understand that it's not a big deal. I almost don't remember even feeling that it was a big deal to begin. 

[01:39:35] Eldar: That's right. You lose that identity very quickly.

[01:39:38] Toliy: That's what I'm saying. 

[01:39:39] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:39:39] Toliy: And I don't feel like, again, with this, with this stuff, I don't feel like it was a, I know it was a gradual buildup of different things. 

[01:39:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:39:46] Toliy: But it doesn't feel that way after a period of time. 

[01:39:49] Eldar: Yeah. And I think that you are probably standing at that same cliff where you doubt you have to make that jump.

[01:39:54] With this stuff as well, with this outbound stuff. 

[01:39:56] Toliy: Like I remember 

[01:39:56] Eldar: that. And when you do and when you do do it, yeah. I think that you'll, you'll finally get yourself over that thing and then you're just, it's just gonna be a lot easier. 

[01:40:03] Toliy: Yeah. I remember that first week of starting to I dunno, eat differently or think differently or just go about things differently.

[01:40:09] Eldar: And 

[01:40:09] Toliy: then I also remember throughout the, throughout the time of feeling anxiety or or do doing different things or, or and then I just remember getting into it and it really was not that hard. Yeah. It, it, it just really wa wasn't, and then after a while I almost couldn't believe how hard I thought it was.

[01:40:26] Eldar: So who was the know in comparison? Who was telling you that? Is that hard? What do you mean? The, the, the person that has took hostage of his imagination. 

[01:40:33] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:40:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:40:34] Eldar: That crazy guy. Yeah. So 

[01:40:35] Mike: who is that guy? What's his name? 

[01:40:36] Eldar: He's a nutso. 

[01:40:37] Mike: Yeah. Is this the same guy that's hijacking you right now? If 

[01:40:41] Eldar: it's always the same?

[01:40:42] Mike: Well, I know 

[01:40:42] Eldar: it's always the same guy. I 

[01:40:43] Mike: know. 

[01:40:44] Eldar: He just comes in in different forms. Yeah. Installing fears and doubts and everything else in yourself. Yeah. Where like the shit that you need to do. Are you kidding me bro? 

[01:40:52] Are you kidding me? You know what I mean? Like it's stupid. 

[01:40:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:40:58] Eldar: It's easy, easy stuff.

[01:41:00] Especially the way the world, the way the world is right now, bro. There's like free money everywhere for him. 

[01:41:06] When it comes to this. 

[01:41:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:41:07] Eldar: But he don't want it. He don't want it. He don't want it. He don't want 

[01:41:12] Mike: it. 

[01:41:12] Eldar: Can I 

[01:41:12] Mike: change your name in this phone? 

[01:41:14] Eldar: Yeah. He don't want it. Yeah, totally don't want it.

[01:41:16] I'm gonna write, I'm gonna change it right now. Totally don't want it. 

[01:41:19] Mike: You 

[01:41:20] Eldar: just Kat Kat doesn't want it too. She's oh, I wanna lose weight. No, you don't. Yeah, 

[01:41:23] Katherine: yeah. You don't lose it until you actually 

[01:41:26] Eldar: Yeah. She don't want it 

[01:41:27] Katherine: already. 

[01:41:28] Hey, I am losing weight, 

[01:41:32] First time ever.

[01:41:34] Eldar: Yeah. So, babe, do you think totally. Just old doesn't want it? We just have to be patient with him? 

[01:41:39] Katherine: Yes. 

[01:41:40] Eldar: How many more decades? 

[01:41:43] Toliy: Hmm. Decades. 

[01:41:43] Katherine: Whatever 

[01:41:43] Eldar: it takes. 

[01:41:44] Katherine: Well, 

[01:41:45] Eldar: what it mean? It's been, it's been a decade plus. No, you've been fani more decades. You've been ga ishly, fantasizing this shit for a very long time.

[01:41:55] You know what I'm saying? 

[01:41:56] Toliy: Yeah. But you're saying decades, like that's more decades. 

[01:41:58] Eldar: I don't know. This is your final boss. It's gonna take a couple decades. Yes. 

[01:42:01] Toliy: I'm not prepared for another decade. No. 

[01:42:03] Eldar: Yeah. What do you think, babe? 

[01:42:06] Katherine: I said it. 

[01:42:07] Eldar: How, how long? 

[01:42:08] Katherine: As, as long as it takes. 

[01:42:09] Eldar: Oh, as long as it takes.

[01:42:10] Well, you, you're not, you are right though. You're right about that. 

[01:42:14] Katherine: Okay. It will be what it will be. 

[01:42:17] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:42:18] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:42:19] Eldar: Mike, 

[01:42:19] Mike: what do you think? How long does it take? Yeah. Or what do I think in general? 

[01:42:23] Eldar: In general. What do you think? 

[01:42:26] Mike: I said this Is this, this picture, is this picture clear to me? Very clear. Very clear.

[01:42:30] Yeah. 

[01:42:30] Katherine: I think it's clear. Yeah. 

[01:42:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:42:32] It's his final boss, just this is my final boss. Oh, 

[01:42:34] Eldar: Nice. 

[01:42:34] Mike: It's that big thing. Yeah. That you've been avoiding your whole life. Yeah. Damn. That's right. And that has his hands in everything. Yeah. It's like, it's uh, it's like ler at the, when he is doing octopus arms.

[01:42:45] Yeah. 

[01:42:45] Toliy: The octopus arms in the, in the, what's his name? 

[01:42:47] Mike: In the hot pot? Yeah. The hotpot. That guy's everywhere 

[01:42:50] Toliy: at the, uh, soccer field. 

[01:42:51] Eldar: Yes. Yeah. 

[01:42:52] Katherine: Are you excited to, or is it scary? Both. 

[01:42:57] Eldar: Oh, that's a very 

[01:42:58] Toliy: good question actually. Yeah. Yeah. I have I, I, I have the, the, and the truth is I have pockets of both. I have, I have pockets where I'm like, yo today's fucking it's day.

[01:43:05] Today's like that. And I have that. Yeah. And then I have pockets of, of I, I want to go in one of those wrecking rooms and just slam everything. The slash him. 

[01:43:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:15] Toliy: That times 

[01:43:15] Mike: that's that sounds about normal. That's the, that's the whole thing. Yeah. It's for, for obviously I'm dealing with that same You haven't decided who you I haven't decided who I want to be.

[01:43:23] Yeah. I wanna be a pussy on that wall. Yeah. On that basketball court with the girls. 

[01:43:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:27] Mike: Or do I want to be like, oh yeah, today I feel good. It's fucking sunny. I feel good. 

[01:43:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:31] Mike: Lemme go, bully somebody. 

[01:43:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:34] Mike: You didn't decide who you want to be. This is what you in for. This is your gift 

[01:43:38] Eldar: is what you've 

[01:43:38] Mike: made for yourself 

[01:43:40] Eldar: and feel very deserving.

[01:43:41] Mike: Yes. 

[01:43:42] Eldar: Yeah. It's justice. 

[01:43:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:44] Eldar: That you're doing to yourself. 

[01:43:46] Mike: It's quick math. 

[01:43:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:48] Mike: The equation is correct. 

[01:43:50] Katherine: I think the, the, the, the plus side is like when he tackles this, when he has a break, like the breakthrough 

[01:43:56] Eldar: uhhuh, 

[01:43:56] Katherine: whether for for for good or for bad, but just like executing and doing it is gonna feel really good, 

[01:44:04] Eldar: even if it's at 90 years old.

[01:44:06] Katherine: Of course. 

[01:44:07] Eldar: You good? Of 

[01:44:08] Katherine: course. 

[01:44:08] Eldar: It's never too late to start. Yeah. It's never too late to start. No, 

[01:44:11] Katherine: no. It's, it's, yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be good. 

[01:44:15] Eldar: Yeah. No, of course. I think it's this type of, if you're standing, at that crossroad or at that cliff where you need to jump for anyone, that's, that's a very good place to be, I think.

[01:44:25] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:44:26] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because 

[01:44:27] Katherine: it's the most important place to be, 

[01:44:28] Eldar: even though it feels so, yes. 'cause I think all the conversations been had. 

[01:44:31] Katherine: It's frustrating. 

[01:44:31] Eldar: Everything's been imagined. 

[01:44:33] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:44:33] Eldar: You've prepared so much. 

[01:44:35] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:44:35] Eldar: And, uh, now it's just a moment of I gotta jump. 

[01:44:38] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:44:39] Eldar: And if you don't jump, you never, you never, you never find out.

[01:44:41] And this is 

[01:44:42] Katherine: basically that cliff jumping park that you guys like in Bermuda so much. Yeah. And tole and I usually like creep in on the lowest one while you guys are on the highest. 

[01:44:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:44:52] Katherine: It's that, it's like creeping up and like that pit that you feel in your stomach when you jump and ah, yeah. This is it. 

[01:44:58] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:44:58] Katherine: this is it. 

[01:44:59] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:45:00] Katherine: It's exciting. I think it's exciting. Yeah. But I know that being in your position, obviously 

[01:45:04] Toliy: no, but to me has, to me it's both at times. Yeah. At both times. I'm like, that's it. Make this thing my bitch, like that, that's it. I'm gonna do this.

[01:45:11] And then at times I'm just like, 

[01:45:12] Katherine: and then you're, it's bitch, 

[01:45:14] Toliy: Yeah. Like that. And then Yeah. When that happens, obviously, then, then it goes into like self-reflection. Yeah. And then it goes to like that. 

[01:45:21] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:45:21] Toliy: And I don't, well have, well this 

[01:45:22] Katherine: is overly important. 

[01:45:23] Toliy: I don't, and I don't have the attitude like, Hey, this is someone's fault.

[01:45:26] Someone else's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Or like that. I definitely def definitely resort back at myself. 

[01:45:31] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:45:31] Toliy: Whi which is, I mean, I feel like it's good, but then it's very painful always, but I also like, yeah. I don't wanna feel like this be, be, because it's very painful when it happens. I don't wanna forever feel like this with this, like 

[01:45:46] Mike: Yeah.

[01:45:46] Toliy: Like going back to the same, same place. But but I've, no, I've, but I, but, but I also know I've done this before. 

[01:45:53] And, um, 

[01:45:55] Eldar: well, no, 

[01:45:55] Toliy: I, I think that you 

[01:45:56] Eldar: can't, I'm not sure if you can just apply, I've done this before. I think that the magnitude of what you set out to do has a lot more stakes, I would say.

[01:46:05] You know what I mean? Yeah. Where if you did something for yourself, like losing weight, for example, or doing better on the basketball court. Yeah. That's for you. 

[01:46:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:46:12] Eldar: Here you talk, for example, the person, one of the people that are listening is James, for example. 

[01:46:16] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:46:16] Eldar: So you have other people's lives are at stake or our lives are at stake, right?

[01:46:20] Yeah. So there's a lot more at stake here. Yeah. It's not just okay, cool, like I'm just gonna go and fucking, do whatever for myself. Go, 

[01:46:26] Toliy: yeah, 

[01:46:27] Eldar: do something, for yourself, whatever. You could do that. But when other people's lives are at stake, right? Where like your actions are directly impacting how other people's lives turn out.

[01:46:37] It's a lot, it's a lot more, it's a lot more to it.

[01:46:40] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:46:40] Eldar: Um, obviously there's a lot more consequences, but there's a lot more o obviously a reward as well, so like the, do you take that into account? 

[01:46:51] Toliy: So like actively when thinking about it? No, 

[01:46:53] Eldar: but that, that's what's on, on 

[01:46:55] Toliy: the line. Yeah.

[01:46:55] Well, overall yeah, I do understand that. Okay. 

[01:46:57] Eldar: Yeah. So I mean, you, you can't be oblivious to that fact. No. That

[01:46:59] Toliy: yeah. 

[01:47:00] Eldar: This is, uh, I mean, I mean this is what you always dreamt for. 

[01:47:04] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:47:04] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Where outside of your own dreams, these types of dreams have impact on many different lives.

[01:47:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:47:12] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? And that's what you always wanted to do is do this whole philanthropy thing too, to kickstart that, off of your knowledge, your understanding and your success. Yeah. Not to say that you haven't been successful up to this point, obviously. You know what I mean?

[01:47:26] But based on your knowledge, based on understanding, based on your growth and where you are at. 

[01:47:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:47:30] Eldar: If you still fucking playing in the G league, I mean you, you're a loser. 

[01:47:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:47:35] Eldar: And that's what it is. You obviously know that, 

[01:47:37] Toliy: so Yeah. You 

[01:47:39] Eldar: know? Yeah.

[01:47:43] You know what I'm saying? 

[01:47:45] Toliy: When you started to say that Archie started to stare at me, literally left inside, 

[01:47:49] Eldar: she sees the fear in you. All right. Give us a final, final thoughts then Totally. On this fear. Shit. Is it fear or you just made shit up? 

[01:47:56] Toliy: Probably made shit up. 

[01:47:58] Eldar: See, again, it's made up bullshit. It doesn't exist.

[01:48:03] What fear? 

[01:48:03] Katherine: It's funny. 

[01:48:04] Eldar: Gimme something 

[01:48:05] Katherine: once you, once you break it down that well, 

[01:48:06] Eldar: gimme something concrete. Something 

[01:48:07] Katherine: like that. 

[01:48:07] Eldar: Gimme something concrete. What fear 

[01:48:09] Katherine: there is nothing 

[01:48:09] Eldar: concrete. What are we afraid of? You. Afraid of for your life? 

[01:48:13] Katherine: What 

[01:48:13] Eldar: are you afraid for? Your job? This is 

[01:48:15] Katherine: where we tie in V Who put that pressure V for vendetta, right?

[01:48:18] Eldar: Hmm. 

[01:48:18] Katherine: This is where we tie in V for vendetta. 

[01:48:20] Eldar: Oh yeah. That's, 

[01:48:21] Katherine: isn't that like the best movie? 

[01:48:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:48:23] Katherine: About breaking fear. 

[01:48:24] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. There was a good, really good moment in that. Well, 

[01:48:28] Katherine: true. Yeah. 

[01:48:28] Eldar: Because there's a person who, who, if you guys didn't see it, obviously right? There was a person who was uh, facing the fears.

[01:48:36] But what, over, over overrid It was love, right? It was pure love, right? Remember? 

[01:48:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:48:43] Eldar: They were talking about the cell moment, right? 

[01:48:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:48:45] Eldar: Where the person realized that nothing matters. Nothing like 

[01:48:50] Toliy: I don't even remember this. 

[01:48:51] Eldar: Yeah. Based on what? Know, it's 

[01:48:53] Katherine: one of my favorite movies, but it's been a long time since 

[01:48:55] Eldar: I watched I'm, yeah.

[01:48:56] I don't remember a hundred percent to it, but the whole point was 

[01:48:57] Katherine: that like, but it was the moment in the cell. 

[01:48:58] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. The moment in the cell where she was like, love is the most important thing. 

[01:49:02] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:49:02] Eldar: And nothing else is that she's got fearing 

[01:49:04] Katherine: About her life. 

[01:49:05] Eldar: Yeah. If you can't pursue the, the, the moment for love or the life of love, then none of it matters.

[01:49:12] She doesn't even care about anything. Right. Right. So she broke all her fears in that moment and said, you know what? And uh, that's what she finally was let go and was free. 

[01:49:20] She realized that like nothing exists and everything else was just a imaginary things. There was no real guards.

[01:49:25] There's no, it's not a real jail. 

[01:49:26] Katherine: Wow. That movie is perfectly is a, is a 

[01:49:29] Eldar: Well that's what it is. Perfectly 

[01:49:30] Katherine: ties into 

[01:49:31] Eldar: We're ta Yes. We're talking about imaginary things. Imaginary jail. 

[01:49:35] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:49:35] Eldar: That we put ourselves into, 

[01:49:36] Katherine: we create the prison. We are the, the prisoner and the guard. 

[01:49:40] Eldar: Yes. Well, P right? Yes, that is correct.

[01:49:43] Yeah, that's what it is. So what are the final thoughts? No, there's no fear. 

[01:49:48] Katherine: No, I think you've perfectly summed it up right there. 

[01:49:51] Eldar: You wanna keep playing in the, in the sandbox with fear. That's your choice. Fear is queer. Fear is queer. 

[01:49:56] Katherine: No guys. No. Please 

[01:49:57] Eldar: be nice. Hey, 

[01:49:58] Katherine: delete this, please. 

[01:50:00] Eldar: Uh, bran, uh, wife, uh, what's his name is requesting for it to be deleted.

[01:50:04] Katherine: Thank you, 

[01:50:05] Eldar: but there's some nerd out there right now on Twitch. We recorded this. Isn't gonna use that against Totally. When totally runs for president. 

[01:50:09] Katherine: Oh no. Yeah, this will get you canceled The video. 

[01:50:13] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:50:14] Toliy: No, the, the, um, yeah, the, 

[01:50:17] Eldar: wait, wait, wait a second. Do we give a fuck? 

[01:50:22] Toliy: Okay. You just asked for, huh?

[01:50:24] Eldar: No, we don't. No, no, no. No. Catherine's yo guys like, yo, there's fear here. You know what I mean? We might get I 

[01:50:29] Toliy: plan on, on a, on on streaming, on a kick, and, uh, in general, 

[01:50:33] Eldar: no, 

[01:50:33] Toliy: probably no. 

[01:50:34] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We, we don't care, babe. Yeah. I don't think, uh, I like if at this point, if you listening to this podcast and if you don't really understand our intentions and that a lot of times we use these types of words or whatever to make a joke or whatever, that if it's coming across in the, in the offensive way, then you shouldn't be listening to the podcast in the first place.

[01:50:51] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. If you, 

[01:50:52] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:50:52] Well, your 

[01:50:53] Katherine: people these days are offended easily. 

[01:50:55] Eldar: Yeah. We don't care. Don't benefit from the podcast. Those people need to be offended. Mike's gonna say it's justice. And, uh, they, they probably would never listen to this podcast in the first place. And if you don't, okay, let me, you know what, I'm gonna say this right now.

[01:51:06] Sounds like 

[01:51:07] Katherine: you're going on a rant. 

[01:51:08] Eldar: I'm gonna, no, I'm gonna be gonna land this plane here. 

[01:51:10] Katherine: Okay. 

[01:51:10] Eldar: This podcast is the best podcast that promotes you, actually, you as a listener, as a human being. 

[01:51:17] At its core, no other podcast out there is promoting self-empowerment like we do. Yes or no? 

[01:51:23] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:51:23] Katherine: Yeah. So you're saying we love all people 

[01:51:25] Eldar: a hundred percent.

[01:51:26] Toliy: Exactly. More than they love 

[01:51:27] Eldar: themselves. Thank you. You see that? So, to to, to get stuck on a word here, award day, like we had the, we had the whole podcast on the, on the award retard. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Are you kidding me to get stuck on that? And what these people are just gonna miss out on something that's very good, which is who, like I said, we're talk about empowering you, like we care about these people more than they care, uh, about themselves.

[01:51:48] But yeah, let's get back to that point, 

[01:51:49] Katherine: period. 

[01:51:49] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The fuck. Yeah. The interesting thing, I think in, in, um, in general, I think about, again, like all these fears, is that once you, I dunno if you wanna call it conquer them, or once you just like, think, think about them

[01:52:04] the, the, uh, it, it's, it's always comical, obviously, when you look back at it. 

[01:52:09] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:52:09] Toliy: And you can't rightfully so it should be no. Yes. But you can't have that same energy when you're looking back at it because you're like, yo, what was this? Or what is this? 

[01:52:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:19] Toliy: But in a moment in time, you felt the opposite way, which is always it's such an interesting phenomenon, and I feel like the question is, why, why did you feel about it in this in one moment in time, one way to the same thing, and then a, and then the same thing in a different moment in time, you could feel completely opposite, you, you can't like like a sneaker's, a sneaker. I mean, I guess one moment time, it's gonna be a sneaker and a different time. It's gonna be a sneaker. You're not gonna be like, oh, I thought that was a sandal for, for example, right? Yeah. And now, now, now it's a boot, right? 

[01:52:51] Um, but to to, to these, to these different things that affect us internally, it's, it's like a lot of it's yeah.

[01:52:58] What your attitude is when you, when you go about it, and probably like what your level of arrogance is when you inspect it. And oftentimes when you make those conclusions about something being very hard or too difficult or like this or that, you're, you're, you're being too arrogant at, at, at that time at because you have this strong conviction of something that you, you prove to yourself that wasn't true.

[01:53:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:53:22] Toliy: So if, if that, if if that happens to, to, to you, like that, that should be an important thing for you to, to examine, for example, about yourself. Because if you're one to make these conclusions on these different things, it probably means that you're not you're not thinking about it correctly and you're being too, you're, you're, you're too sure of yourself about something that you shouldn't be too sure up.

[01:53:48] Eldar: Yeah. I'm gonna roll off of what you just said with my final thoughts, and I think this is a very important fact here. It almost feels there are two different people alive internally, inside of us at all times. 

[01:53:59] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:54:00] Eldar: Okay. And obviously the one that we summon during Friday nights during our episodes is the thinking one, the one that wants to rationalize, understand, be logical, be helpful, be self-loving.

[01:54:16] Right? Guardian angel, let's just say this. For the lack of better word. Right. But then we step out of this podcast and go to that door and we have to live our life 

[01:54:25] Katherine: fight club. 

[01:54:26] Eldar: Yeah. And then there's a thousands, millions of presenting variables that we didn't and prepare for. And they, those variables right, will summon something else in us.

[01:54:40] The non-thinking mind, the irrational mind, the fearful mind, and all those things also living in us for one reason or the other. Like totally says for the arrogance, for the pride, for the ignorance, whatever reason. It's also part of us as well. I mean, shit, I don't like to preach, but I think a way out of something like this is to have these types of conversations where they're inquisitive, philosophical conversations in nature to try to make these types of conclusions that totally just made about the fact that there's some kind of duality about our existence.

[01:55:14] That on one hand he wants to fucking seize the moment and kill it, but on the other hand, he wants to tuck his tail and run away. So have more pH. It just depends on the day. So, so have more philosophy, have these conversations. And really make that distinction. Understand that there's both sides in you, and raise more awareness to be able to overpower one side versus the other so you can actually enjoy your life, have fun and actualize the things that you do want to actualize for the, for the betterment of your life and the people around you.

[01:55:49] Baby, what are your final thoughts? 

[01:55:52] Katherine: No, you, you did a great job. I agree with you. Thank you. No final thoughts for me. 

[01:55:57] Toliy: I, I, I, I feel like just overall, based on what, what, what you said, I feel like the, the, the crazy phenomenon about, I think all this in general is that there's so much talk about making a choice or like doing this or that.

[01:56:11] But I think the goal with all this, and lots of times I think the goal, the goal of life is that to, to to, to get yourself in a position where there is no longer any kind of choice make 

[01:56:21] Eldar: in 

[01:56:21] Toliy: the matter to make. That's why in that moment, there could never be any arrogance or there, there's never a need for anything.

[01:56:29] There's never a need to be, you don't need to be humble. You don't need to be like, you can't be, for example, evil. You can't be like you, you, you need to summon anything. There, there, there, there's no one side or the other. There's no this or that. There, there's just that, that thing. 

[01:56:47] Eldar: Spoken like a true philosopher.

[01:56:48] When you, when you do so much right, and you understand everything. That's right. What's good that you no longer have the choice in the matter. You just is 

[01:56:56] Toliy: because the, the 

[01:56:56] Eldar: just are You just are and you, you are in that enlightened state of bliss, I guess. 

[01:57:03] Toliy: Yeah, because the, the need to be humble or the need to, uh, be patient for example, or like the need for these things.

[01:57:09] Only a thing occurs when there's like the opposite happening. 

[01:57:14] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:57:14] Toliy: But then there is no need for any of it. 

[01:57:16] Eldar: Correct. Because none of it exists. Yeah. Mike, you good? No, I'm good. Alright guys, this was great. Thank you so much.