209. Engineering Good Days

Are you sick of good days feeling like pure luck while bad days seem to come out of nowhere?

In this brutally honest episode of the Dennis Rox Podcast, Eldar, Toliy, and Katherine expose why most people live as pinballs in life — constantly bouncing between emotional highs and lows with zero real control.

Toliy delivers one of the most powerful lines of the entire conversation:
“You are guaranteed to have good days if you do what you want.”

They break down how tracking the real cause and effect behind your mood (starting with sleep, daily routines, people-pleasing patterns, and ego resistance) can shift you from reactive chaos to true empowerment. From family betrayal triggers and the pressure to be the “hero” to why most people self-sabotage the moment they string a few good days together — nothing is off the table.

But here’s the part that will completely rewire how you see your life…

Listen now and discover the exact mindset shift that separates people who occasionally feel good from those who engineer consistent good days on demand.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode 

[00:00:01] Ultimately, you always wanna be able to track back why you having good days and why you having bad days. Link it all back and understand what steps you took in order to get there. If you can't, then you're just a pinball in life. 

[00:00:13] Toliy: You are guaranteed to have good days if you do what you want.

[00:00:17] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:00:17] Toliy: Guaranteed. 

[00:00:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:00:18] Toliy: So doing what, what you want contributes towards very planned recurring good days. 

[00:00:24] Eldar: the smallest things that can actually provide the biggest results. 

[00:00:28] Katherine: I definitely believe that, for sure. Yeah. 

[00:00:30] Eldar: But a lot of times we're not humble enough to be able to zoom in on the smaller details.

[00:00:43] All right, guys, yet another week, another- Banger ... another banger. Uh, today on, on this episode or this, uh, tonight, we're gonna be chasing an elusive bugger, uh, but how do I describe it? Uh, I guess we're constantly, a lot of people at least, right, a lot of people that we know or we don't know, have good days and have bad days, right?

[00:01:09] Constantly. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. It's kinda like luck of the draw every time. We never know what we're kinda g- gonna get, right? It's like a, what does it say, box of chocolates? Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know h- what you're gonna get. What you're gonna 

[00:01:22] Katherine: get. 

[00:01:22] Eldar: Yeah. And that's kinda fucked up, isn't it?

[00:01:26] Toliy: No. 

[00:01:28] Eldar: Well, sure. You, you, justice police. Keep it down over there. Like Mr. Justice over here. Justice police, you know? Um- 

[00:01:33] Toliy: Everything's good with a glass of Milo. 

[00:01:35] Eldar: A glass of Milo. What a little Milo kid, right? Uh, if you guys, if, if you gu- if there's Colombian listeners, they'll know what Milo is. But if you're not Colombian, 

[00:01:46] Katherine: if you 

[00:01:46] Eldar: don't know what Milo is- In other 

[00:01:47] Katherine: parts it's called Milo.

[00:01:48] Eldar: Milo, yes. 

[00:01:49] Katherine: Yeah, it's just in Spanish it's Milo. 

[00:01:51] Eldar: It's, it's a little bit, a little bit like, uh, let's just say it's a PG-rated hot chocolate, right? Can you say it like that? Sure. Imagine hot chocolate, it's like a little darker, I guess, and Milo is a little bit on the lighter side, right? It's closer to like a- Yeah, it's 

[00:02:03] Katherine: just a chocolate, like, drink, right?

[00:02:04] Eldar: Yeah, chocolate drink, yeah. So Mike really likes this. Like 

[00:02:07] Toliy: a hot 

[00:02:08] Eldar: Yoohoo. Yeah, a hot Yoohoo. So all right, so a lot of people- Hot 

[00:02:11] Katherine: or cold. Yeah. 

[00:02:12] Eldar: So a lot of people, we have these things called good and bad days, and a lot of times we don't know what to attribute that to. You know what I mean? One day we're buzzing, we having a good time, we're ready to mingle with people, have a, you know, like, have parties, relax, chill, and everything's great.

[00:02:29] And other days we're just fucking like, "Don't bother us." Or like a, "Don't bother me." You know? You're in your own shell. It's raining in your head, you know? What the fuck? You know? And the interesting thing about synchronicity is that Mike actually, we were talking about this yesterday a little bit coming back from the gym.

[00:02:46] Mm-hmm. And 

[00:02:47] now we talk a little bit about the same thing with Catherine. 

[00:02:50] Mm. 

[00:02:50] Right? And the topic is ultimately gonna be empowerment, the elusive nature of being truly empowered. And how is the, the two tied together? I'm not, this is not a question to the public. I'm gonna answer. Um, the truth of the matter is because we have good and bad days all the time, we can't really track down or have a choice in the matter, right?

[00:03:15] But with empowerment or actually being, I guess, in control of our days, we can maybe predict a little bit better when it comes to something like that, right? Obviously not... We can't predict all the different variables that can come our way throughout the day in order for it to be swayed one way or the other.

[00:03:31] But a lot of times we can pre-plan maybe a little bit or be mindful about certain things, right? Uh, in Catherine's case, right, in Catherine's, um, example, a lot of times she's, like, up and down, right? She's maybe not in the mood to host a party or do something, right? But sometimes she snaps out of it. She has good sleep.

[00:03:50] She goes to the gym. Everything's kind of flowing. And then she wakes up. She's like, "You know what? I wanna have people over. I wanna have, you know, my family over, my cousin, whatever, whoever." Um, and she's like gets this bug, and she feels good about it. But a lot of times she's like, "No," she's off of it completely, right?

[00:04:08] And this time around, we actually were able to track it back- Mm ... to say, like, "Okay, well, why?" Right? What's the reasoning here? Because ultimately, you always wanna be able to track back why you're having good days and why you're having bad days. If you can't, then you're just a pinball in life. 

[00:04:24] Yeah. 

[00:04:25] Right?

[00:04:26] Same thing with you, Mike, right? We talked about that, right, where it's like a lot of times, um, you weren't able to maybe attribute certain successes in your life to giving yourself some credit, right? So those things never built into a level of empowerment and confidence to be able to then bet on yourself to know like, "I, I know exactly how I'm gonna feel- 

[00:04:43] Mm-hmm

[00:04:44] at any time." So let's talk about it, guys. What do you guys think about this topic? How important is it? Why is, why is being in power so elusive? Why can't we have more control over our days and decide how we feel? Is it because we can't actually see the cause and effect behind our actions throughout the day, right?

[00:05:04] In your case, right, you said, "Hey, I worked out. I did exactly what I wanted this week," right? "I got pretty good sleep. You know, I'm pretty... I was pretty proud of myself." And today she's like, "Yeah, I'm feeling actually lighter, better- Mm ... and I'm willing to host, and I'm willing to give back to people," because obviously you filled your cup.

[00:05:22] Katherine: Yeah, which is like a total, like, 180 from last week. 

[00:05:25] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:05:26] Katherine: Um, you know. 

[00:05:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:28] Katherine: So, yeah, it's weird, you know? 

[00:05:31] Eldar: You see? It's weird. 

[00:05:31] Katherine: It's interesting. Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:32] Eldar: It's weird and interesting because- Yeah ... a lot of times it's just a fog. It's foggy. You can't really track back the cause and effect of things, and ultimately you're not in control.

[00:05:42] Yeah. But I think through these types of conversations, I think we can get to a place where we can be a little bit more in control to be able to then decide and lead a life of choice rather than a life of, uh, chance. 

[00:05:54] Toliy: Mm. 

[00:05:54] Eldar: Well, damn, that was pretty good. 

[00:05:56] Toliy: Mm. 

[00:05:56] Eldar: Toliy? 

[00:05:57] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:05:58] Eldar: What do you think? 

[00:05:59] Toliy: Um, well... '

[00:06:01] Eldar: Cause you know you had a lot of thoughts.

[00:06:02] I just gave you, like, crazy amount of thoughts. 

[00:06:04] Toliy: Yeah. Um- 

[00:06:05] Eldar: You know what also- I- Do, do you understand everything I said? 

[00:06:07] Toliy: Uh, I understood it very clearly. 

[00:06:09] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:06:09] Toliy: Yeah. Well, first off- 

[00:06:11] Eldar: I was gatekeeping the subject from you, the topic, and now you know. 

[00:06:14] Toliy: Yeah. So, I guess first off to, uh, start, I feel like, yeah, I feel like most people prob- pro- probably, I think, suffer from this, you know?

[00:06:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:26] Toliy: Um, I also think that, um, a lot of people who suffer from this and are aware of this, but I also think there's a huge population of people who suffer from this but have no idea, like, why. 

[00:06:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:42] Toliy: Or, like, they, they're, they just kind of also, like, think that, "Hey, this is, like, part of life." 

[00:06:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:47] Toliy: That, like, there's good days, there's bad days.

[00:06:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:49] Toliy: That's it. 

[00:06:50] Eldar: 100%. 

[00:06:50] Toliy: You know? So they don't even go through the effort of even trying to figure out why or working on it. They kind of have just accepted it. But to me, there's, like, a combination of things happening, and you c- you pretty much said, I think, both, both of them. One, one thing, um, one, one clear trigger to me is, um, you are guaranteed to have good days if you do what you want.

[00:07:13] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:07:14] Toliy: Guaranteed. 

[00:07:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:15] Toliy: So doing what, what you want contributes towards a, uh, very planned recurring good day, like, good days, because you're doing what you want. Or the opposite, doing what you don't want contribute towards, um, constant bad days. Like, it just ma- makes sense. 

[00:07:32] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:07:33] Toliy: And then the second thing is, um, of course, like, um, I'm sure for example, like, Kat wants good days every day, obviously, right?

[00:07:43] Eldar: We'll get to that. But also- That's what she said. She's like, "I wanna be more consistent 

[00:07:46] Toliy: with this." 

[00:07:46] Eldar: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:07:46] Toliy: But also, I think that, um, Kat probably doesn't know, like, what is actually important for her and probably doesn't prioritize those kinds of things. 

[00:07:54] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:07:55] Toliy: Right? Um, so, like, she may want good days, but I don't think that she may connect as to, like- 

[00:08:01] Eldar: The dots.

[00:08:02] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. The dots as to what's contributing towards more bad days and what's contributing towards more good days. 

[00:08:07] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:08:08] Toliy: Because if you obviously knew, then, and you were for sure sure about it- 

[00:08:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:08:12] Toliy: then my guess is that you would do more of the stuff that is good, and you would actually put a priority on it.

[00:08:18] But, um, lots of it, to, to me, like, there, there is no, like, um, there's no floor of this that doesn't start with good sleep, for example. Absolutely not. 

[00:08:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:31] Toliy: Like, you, you, you could have whatever plans, whatever desires you want, you can do what- whatever you want- You can have whatever you want. If you don't have good sleep, for example, everything else- 

[00:08:41] Eldar: Is erased

[00:08:42] Toliy: in my opinion, get, gets erased, right? 

[00:08:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:44] Toliy: For me, like- 

[00:08:45] Eldar: Or becomes- Yeah ... not, not that it becomes erased, it becomes a lot harder. 

[00:08:49] Toliy: Well, it becomes a lot harder, and what happens- It becomes 

[00:08:50] Eldar: like a, you have to push through- 

[00:08:52] Toliy: Well, yeah, and again- ... force something ... words like, yeah, force, pushing through, doing any of that kind of stuff, that will definitely lead towards bad attitudes.

[00:09:00] That will definitely lead to a lack of, like, open-mindedness. 

[00:09:03] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:09:03] Toliy: That will lead to, that, that will lead to a lack of, of patience, of understanding- 

[00:09:07] Eldar: Mm ... 

[00:09:08] Toliy: of, like, being able to give grace. Like ev- everything just gets, um, like worse and worse and worse throughout your whole day. If there's any, um, like chall- challenges or unplanned things that happen especially- 

[00:09:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:09:21] Toliy: it's over for you if you get bad sleep. Because you just don't have- Yeah ... the energy required to, to think about things properly, to do things properly, to do any of that. 

[00:09:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:30] Toliy: For me, like, I definitely don't have, um, incredible days every single day. But for the most part, unless, like, you know, something's out of, like, left field or just, like, completely unexpected, like, um, I generally know for the most part if it's gonna be a good or bad day as soon as I wake up and as soon as I have my morning, like- 

[00:09:49] Eldar: Mm

[00:09:49] Toliy: rou- routine. Like, I have a pretty good i- good idea of how I feel. 

[00:09:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:53] Toliy: And if I'm feeling good, I have very good abilities to, to extend that feeling of good. 

[00:09:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:58] Toliy: If I'm feeling bad, then I'm already going from, like, a deficit, and I kind of know that, like, hey, like, you know, today might not be very productive, or I might not feel good, or, like, you know, just overall.

[00:10:09] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:10:10] Toliy: So- Yeah ... like, I, like, I, I generally don't have a lot of inconsistencies, but I also know that, like, um, like, I generally also have a good feeling of what's gonna happen. But to me- Yeah ... yeah, like, the combination of, um, first figuring out, um, what actually contributes towards you having these good days, um, and then doing what you want to do, that combination guarantees way more good days than bad days, for sure.

[00:10:40] Eldar: You see, babe, you said the word guarantees. You w- you wanted to use the word hope, right? Where like, "I hope that I get into a rhythm or some kind of consistency of this stuff." And remember what we talked about. 

[00:10:53] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:10:53] Eldar: What did I say? 

[00:10:55] Katherine: It's, it's, there's no ho- it's not a matter of hope. 

[00:10:58] Eldar: It's not a matter of hope.

[00:10:58] Katherine: You said it was more a matter of, um, like, empowerment and, like, just... How did you phrase that? You said it really well. Um. 

[00:11:07] Eldar: Well, yeah. I leaned on the fact that, like, we don't have to have this crapshoot every time. Yeah. But the crapshoot is, like, that means that you actually don't know. You don't understand.

[00:11:15] Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:15] What you need is an actual understanding how you got here. When you have that understanding, you will lead yourself in each moment of your life, right, in order to make a proper decision. 

[00:11:26] Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:26] As you start making proper decisions- Mm-hmm ... in those moments, you start to develop clarities, like, oh, okay, accumulation of proper decisions- results in me feeling this way.

[00:11:37] I like it, right? Right, yeah. And you start to slowly get empowered- Yeah ... as you have repetitions, as we talked about, all of that empowerment. And slowly you start embodying that confidence versus, "Oh, I hope I have a good day. Oh, I hope I have this." 

[00:11:52] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:11:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:11:54] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:11:55] Eldar: So tell me or try to deconstruct that, what, what have you done that, to, to lead you to have this, let's just say a flare- I guess-

[00:12:02] of, of, of a good moment ... 

[00:12:03] Katherine: I, like, it's, it's definitely been, like, a 180 from, like, last week. 

[00:12:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:07] Katherine: Last week, I, I had a headache like three days in a row. I also had bad sleep multiple nights, and I, I think, like, that probably, like, kicked it off for me. So, like, when I'm not feeling well, then that impacts me going to do some kind of fitness for myself, whether it's, like, yoga or Pilates.

[00:12:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:27] Katherine: Um, it kinda definitely throws, like, a wrench in, in, like, my, I, I guess I can call it, like, routine or day, and then having multiple days like that, um, kinda just has, like, a spillover, you know? 

[00:12:40] Eldar: Yeah, but see, again- 

[00:12:41] Katherine: I think maybe. I don't 

[00:12:42] Eldar: know ... yeah. Yes, yes. I'm not sure. But I think that, again, you're, uh, describing not the causes but the effects.

[00:12:49] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:12:49] Eldar: Okay? And one big thing at least that was weighing on you was a very specific engagement that you had with your sister. 

[00:12:58] Katherine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:12:59] Eldar: Okay? Mm-hmm. Which you didn't know how to process. 

[00:13:02] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:13:02] Eldar: Which was making you feel a certain type of 

[00:13:04] Katherine: way. Yes, I'll explain that. Yeah, so initially, um, early April is my niece's birthday, so I reached out with my s- to my sister.

[00:13:12] And, you know, my niece is sev- she turned seven, so she likes these bouncy houses. So, um, I, I, I said, like, "Hey, you know, what would be, um, like, more convenient for you? I can come over to you guys, and I, you know, take Ella to a bouncy house, or I can have a-" 

[00:13:30] Eldar: With or without Milo. Oh 

[00:13:33] Katherine: my God. You're confusing us.

[00:13:35] And, and, or, um, like, "I'll have a get-together at the house. Like, what's more convenient for you?" Yeah. My s- my sister's been dealing with some health issues, so I was like, you know, giving her two options to see, like, what, what works for her. Um, and I send that. O- so her birthday was on a Sunday. I send that a week before, so, uh, a week before.

[00:13:56] And, um, she did not get back to me at all, which is very strange because, you know, she usually, she typically gets back to me, like, pretty, pretty fast. She's always on her phone. So I didn't get a response from her, um, until, like, next Sunday, which is the day of her, of her, of her, you know, of her daughter's birthday.

[00:14:13] Um, so obviously I took the hint. I'm like, okay, you know, you know, that doesn't work for her, whatever, you know. 

[00:14:19] Eldar: Did it make you feel a certain type 

[00:14:20] Katherine: of way? Initially, I, I just thought, like, any, any response would have been better than no response So 

[00:14:27] Eldar: it did make you feel a certain type of 

[00:14:28] Katherine: way ... um, just 'cause, like, I also, like, know her.

[00:14:30] Like, she's very responsive. She's always on her phone, so I just felt like, "Okay." But I also did, like... I also did consider that maybe she didn't feel good. Like, maybe she's not, just not feeling good this weekend. But anyway, um, so then that happens. So then, um, I think, like, I g- I get a text for her, from her, like, the day of the birthday, um, saying, like, "Hey, you know, I, I didn't reach out to you because I, I wasn't feeling good this week."

[00:14:54] So I said, "I understand," like, "No problem," you know? Um, so then later that day, I, I spoke to my mom. My mom's like, "Oh, hey, you know, we, we just got off the phone with Ella. We finally reached, reached," you know. I remember that when I reached out and I called my sister so I could speak to Ella, um, my sister didn't answer the phone, and she never called me back or anything, so I never got a chance to speak to Ella.

[00:15:16] That's fine, too. But I speak to my mom. Then I find out through my mom that my sister, uh, is at an event. Like, she's... Her friend is hosting a birthday party for Ella. So I'm like, "Oh, okay, that didn't add up to what I got with- 

[00:15:31] Eldar: Static ... 

[00:15:32] Katherine: you know, what I got. So that made me feel bad, you know? I'm like, "Okay, like, one, like, do we, like...

[00:15:39] Like, we can't, like..." I, I guess, like, not having, like, open communication, like, or honest communication, like, there's absolutely nothing wrong. Like, I'm actually happy that she would have... she has someone else in her life that would wanna celebrate my niece. Like- But tell me ... that's a good thing. Huh? 

[00:15:52] Eldar: Yeah, but tell me 

[00:15:53] Katherine: about it.

[00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think that's a great thing. I think it's, it's the not telling me part or, like, saying one thing to me- Yeah ... but then I hear something else. Like, that hurt me, you know? 'Cause, like, also, like, is, is that also, like... It is, is, is, like, uh... I just felt, like, u- unappreciated, like, in the moment, like, of me, me offering these things.

[00:16:13] Uh, and also, like, um, it's time with my niece, you know? I don't see them often, so, you know, I guess maybe, like, a couple of things happened for me. And so then I'm okay with, like, letting it go. Like, okay, the birthday passed. Everything passed. Like, she celebrated it elsewhere. That's fine. Um, but then, like... Uh, so I'm off it at this point.

[00:16:34] Like, I'm off it. I'm like, "Okay, it passed. I'm off it." But then she comes, she comes back around, and she's like, "Hey, um, so I told Ella about this, you know- Rain check ... I told Ella." So basically she takes the rain check on her own, and it's like, "I told Ella." So basically what happens when you tell a child something, you, you, you make a promise, uh, uh, my niece is not gonna forget.

[00:16:55] So now Ella's asking all the time. So now my, now my sister is texting me, you know, like, suddenly I'm getting more texts from her than I usually do because now the ball is in my court. Like, now, you know- Mm-hmm ... it's expected for me to, like, give her a day. Like, you know, so init... So I had said, like, "Oh, okay, yeah, so we can...

[00:17:13] We'll, you know, we can find a date that works," but I didn't find a day. Like, I just said that, and she said, "Yeah And I find her reaching out to me, and then, then what I, what I started feeling was, like, pressure. Now, like, the moment is gone for me. Like, where that I organically wanted to have her over, now the moment is gone.

[00:17:31] You know, so I was trying to digest that. Like, "Okay, what's going on?" Like, the moment is gone. Like, I'm not feeling it anymore, but am I not feeling it for what reason? What are the reasons that I'm not feeling it? Is it because, uh, I didn't feel appreciated once, like, you know, uh, I- You were off of it ... didn't get a response?

[00:17:46] I w- I was just completely off of it, you know? And then it was... I, I was feeling funny. I didn't know, like, so do I follow through even though I'm off of it, uh, just so that, you know, my niece isn't disappointed? You know, she's a kid, I don't wanna disappoint her. Or I don't know. Like, I, I was, like, you know.

[00:18:03] Toliy: But yeah, uh, like, in that example, like, I, like, at, at least I don't think that you're feeling, um, like, not appreciated. Like, like, to me it's probably more of a feeling of, like, betrayal. 

[00:18:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:15] Katherine: Yeah, you're right. Yes, absolutely. 

[00:18:17] Toliy: You know? 

[00:18:18] Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:18:18] Toliy: And when you feel that kind of betrayal, then yeah, you're completely off of it.

[00:18:22] Yeah. Because, like, you can get over easier, I think, like, not appreciation from someone that's probably not a very appreciative- Yeah ... person. 

[00:18:28] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:18:28] Toliy: For example. But betrayal, I feel like from anyone, like, you, you definitely feel like- Right ... until you address it, like, you probably feel a very strong way about it.

[00:18:38] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's hard to get over 

[00:18:40] Toliy: that. 

[00:18:41] Katherine: And then it also kind of, it kinda, like, also reconfirms that it obviously, like, there's a lack of communication there. You know, like, may- she didn't feel comfortable enough to, to just tell me, like, "Hey, I'm, I'm celebrating Ella at her friend's. Uh, maybe we can do this another time.

[00:18:57] Like, how about, you know, we talk about, like, another weekend or something?" You know, any, any- She felt 

[00:19:00] Eldar: it was shady ... 

[00:19:01] Katherine: literally- You know what I mean? Though, yeah ... any excuse. Yeah. Like, literally anything. Yeah. But you don't have to, like, hide it, omit it, or lie about it. That's the part that hurts. Like, I just don't see, like, why that needs to be...

[00:19:13] Like, like, like, I don't know why that, that is even necessary. Not only that, but, like, when I did call to speak to my niece to wish her a happy birthday, and I, and I got her a gift, like, you know, and then I decided to, like, ship something from Amazon since I realized I- Yeah ... wasn't gonna see her. Like, she also, like, didn't respond and, like, didn't, like, call me back, so, like, I also didn't get a chance to...

[00:19:35] But I know that she responded the phone for other family members, obviously- Mm-hmm ... because my parents spoke with Ella, and I spoke with my parents later that night. 

[00:19:42] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:19:42] Katherine: So, like, that part hurt. It's like, okay, so, like, on, you know, on multiple, like, ways, like, I just felt, like, a little, like, slighted. Like, I feel like- 

[00:19:51] Toliy: Yeah, I think it 

[00:19:51] Katherine: was-

[00:19:52] Toliy: it wasn't, like, nice ... in those kind of scenarios it's also okay to, like... I guess, like, I don't know if the word is be honest or what, but be like, "Hey, I was planning on doing it that weekend, but it didn't work out," so you know. 

[00:20:03] Katherine: Yeah. Like- Not only that, but she totally rain checked without telling me. So, like, the moment has passed- Yeah

[00:20:10] and then she goes and she tells her daughter, and now her daughter is asking all the time But like you, you didn't really even check with me, like, "Hey, how about we do it another weekend?" You know? Like I was off of it. 

[00:20:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:20:21] Katherine: But now I have no choice because now, like that's been promised to her. 

[00:20:24] Toliy: Well, no, I, I think, uh, like I still think you have a choice or- 

[00:20:27] Katherine: Yeah, I just-

[00:20:28] a choice ... I wouldn't wanna disappoint like a child. Like, you know? Yeah, like it's- Like if it was like an adult, like hey, you know, like I'm not feeling it, but like- 

[00:20:34] Toliy: Yeah, but also like- ... you know how it is ... I don't think the disappointment necessarily has to come from your end, you know? Like her mom should like, you know, like she could also explain like, "Hey, I was planning this for your birthday.

[00:20:42] Your mom wasn't responsive," right? Like, "We can try again next year." 

[00:20:48] Eldar: Static. 

[00:20:49] Katherine: Static. 

[00:20:50] Toliy: Right? Like, 

[00:20:52] Eldar: well, um, I know why, I know why obviously Toliy is, Toliy is, um, making, giving you that advice. Well- 

[00:20:59] Katherine: But- I, I, yeah, I see ... 

[00:21:00] Eldar: but- 

[00:21:00] Katherine: I, I get it ... 

[00:21:01] Eldar: run him through what you had to process and how you needed to process in order to not feel those feelings, right?

[00:21:06] What did you, what did we come, come, you know, to 

[00:21:09] Katherine: conclude? Well, I, I think ultimately, like as, as I was feeling, like I was feeling the pressure- 

[00:21:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:21:15] Katherine: of like now like having to do this, and suddenly that just kind of removed any actual organic- 

[00:21:21] Eldar: Want ... 

[00:21:22] Katherine: want to actually do it. Um, but also I think that like I had to like kinda really dissect like really just my feelings ab- on, on it.

[00:21:32] Yeah. And I feel like sometimes what happens is that like I, that the dis- the disappointment that I get when I have an expectation or I want something to go a certain way and it doesn't- Yeah ... like that usually is a bigger disappointment for me than maybe it should be. You know? Like I get upset about that.

[00:21:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:50] Katherine: So I think I wasn't catching that part, but like I had an expectation. Um, generally when I invite them they're, they're r- they're ready to drop everything and, and come because they always have a nice time with us. 

[00:22:01] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:22:01] Katherine: Um, we always have a good time. So like, um, I had an expectation maybe, or also like an expectation or, or, or attaching myself to, to being like a good aunt or a, a, a, a, a good aunt or a good sister.

[00:22:17] You know, my sister- Yeah ... again, like I said, is going through some like- There you go ... some serious health stuff. So like trying to be like that person, you know, that, that, I don't know. So do 

[00:22:25] Toliy: you feel like you were over, trying to overcompensate throughout that 

[00:22:28] Katherine: process? I, you know, I don't think that like offering to celebrate my niece's birthday, uh, especially 'cause my sister's like, uh, having like a hard times like financially, I, I don't think that like it was an overextension, but maybe sometimes the way I attach myself to, to a certain...

[00:22:43] How would you call that, babe? Like to- 

[00:22:44] Toliy: Uh, she wants 

[00:22:45] Eldar: to be a hero sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:22:46] Katherine: Yeah, no, I know. Especially when it comes to my family- Right. It's something, yeah ... I, I, I, I realize I, I have tended to, to fall in that category. Do, 

[00:22:55] Toliy: do you, do you feel like, um, I don't know if this is like a weird question to ask or not, but like- 

[00:23:01] Katherine: I guess we'll find out

[00:23:02] like 

[00:23:02] Toliy: it... Yeah. Yeah, I almost feel like in the way that you're phrasing things or talking about things, like do you feel like you have like, I don't know, somewhat of like... I don't know if it's the right word, but like somewhat of like- either, like, a guilt or a duty. Hmm. 

[00:23:16] Eldar: You know 

[00:23:17] Toliy: what I'm saying? Like, because it feels like Kat is maybe in a much better position, right?

[00:23:22] And maybe when these things happen, maybe she feels like, a little bit, I don't know, maybe like- 

[00:23:26] Katherine: That's a 

[00:23:26] Toliy: really good question ... guilty or, like, a, like- That's good ... you know? I 

[00:23:30] Katherine: have 

[00:23:30] Toliy: to, like- Because, like, she's in a- ... explore that 

[00:23:31] Katherine: more ... 

[00:23:32] Toliy: sh- she's obviously in a much better position than her family in a lot of things, right?

[00:23:37] Eldar: Well, to a naked eye. 

[00:23:38] Toliy: To a naked eye, yes. 

[00:23:39] Eldar: Yeah, but- Right? But, uh- So that, like- ... like, I wouldn't say so. I, like, a lot of times Katherine's behaviors, the way she acts is, like, actually Katherine's very poor on the inside. 

[00:23:46] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. Yes. But I'm saying that, like, in, like- 

[00:23:49] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[00:23:49] Toliy: So, like- In, in the realm of the things that she's talking about, to me it almost sounds like, like the way- She's ahead

[00:23:54] she's taking it... Yeah. She, she like, she- Yeah ... she fe- she, she maybe acknowledges that she's in a better position or a better just scenario- 

[00:24:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:24:01] Toliy: than others. 

[00:24:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:03] Toliy: And maybe because those other people are also probably complainers of their positions, right? 

[00:24:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:07] Toliy: Like, you could feel probably like that you, like, you, you have to, like, cheer people up almost, right?

[00:24:12] Eldar: To be the hero. 

[00:24:13] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:24:14] Eldar: Yeah. To be their hero. Yeah, because you feel- And to 

[00:24:15] Toliy: solve 

[00:24:15] Eldar: their 

[00:24:15] Toliy: problems ... a little bit of, like- 

[00:24:17] Eldar: Maybe ... of guilt maybe. Maybe. Well, she- Yeah ... she would have to obviously answer for that. Yeah. But- 

[00:24:20] Katherine: Yeah. I, you know, I think that definitely, like, growing up, um, like i- in, in, like, in my household there was definitely, like, as, as like a, you know...

[00:24:32] I'm first generation. My parents were immigrants, and there were, like, s- there were so many things- Yeah ... that, like, I needed to be a part of. 

[00:24:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:24:41] Katherine: Like, even as a child, like, that you, you kind of have to, like, translate important documents- Yeah ... or, like, "What did this doctor say?" Or these, these little things that always build up into, like- Yeah

[00:24:51] needing me or needing my input in- Yeah ... in decisions or, or in, in things. And I think that, I think sometimes, I think my dynamic with, like, with- within my mom and my family has kind of led that way, I think. But, um- 

[00:25:10] Toliy: But, but, but it's, like, changed now, right? 'Cause, like, you don't do that kind of stuff now or?

[00:25:14] Um. 

[00:25:15] Eldar: No, I still think that Katherine suffers from, like, the- People pleasing ... what soci- people pleasing- Yeah ... what society has deemed to be, like- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the appropriate thing to do, you know? She'll never miss, like, bi- bringing, like, a cake to my family or something, you know? Like- Yeah ... she's always kind of, like, almost feels like she's on the back foot or needing to, 

[00:25:31] Toliy: like- Yes.

[00:25:32] Eldar: That, that's, 

[00:25:33] Toliy: that's 

[00:25:33] Eldar: that feeling ... show that she cares. 

[00:25:34] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:25:34] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like- Yeah. 

[00:25:36] Katherine: I think, I think, uh, showing that I care, I think that one, that's pretty big for me. 

[00:25:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:41] Toliy: Yeah. To, to me it's, like, in, it's, like, in the realm of, like, feeling not, not, like, enough. Mm-hmm. Right? 

[00:25:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:46] Katherine: Yeah, 

[00:25:46] Eldar: yeah. '

[00:25:47] Toliy: Cause then- She's not enough

[00:25:48] then you, then you do the societal- 

[00:25:49] Katherine: Yeah ... things of, like- I've, I've struggled with that ... 

[00:25:50] Toliy: yeah. It's like, uh, who, who, who was saying that, um, um, um, Billy was saying that, right? Mm-hmm. That, like- Yeah ... he wanted h- his wi- his, his, like, girlfriend's or fiance's parents- 

[00:26:01] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:26:01] Toliy: to- 

[00:26:02] Eldar: To esteem 

[00:26:02] Toliy: him higher ... to, to esteem him in a certain way.

[00:26:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:04] Toliy: Even though he, like, he, he, he, like, yeah, he, like, he needed people to, like- Like, it's like a- 

[00:26:11] Eldar: Approval ... 

[00:26:11] Toliy: y- yeah, yeah. It's like doing the right thing, but only if someone's actually watching so that they can give you the credit for doing it. 

[00:26:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:17] Toliy: Mm. Like, he needed that feeling of, like, like it's like- He's a good guy

[00:26:20] yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like if you need to do s- do, do something- Almost like someone- ... but no one sees it ... 

[00:26:24] Katherine: but like someone telling you, like, "Hey, y- you're doing okay," like, you need the reassurance- Well, 

[00:26:28] Toliy: like for example- ... from someone else ... like you, you could do good things maybe for yourself or, or if, or for, like, other, others, but, like, when you do them, you don't need that, like, like, "Hey," like, "good job," or, like, that, like, appreciation maybe or, like, that, like, thank you or, like, like I, I'm, I don't even know, like an expectation from them.

[00:26:45] But you just do them because, like, this is what you believe in and this is who you are, right? But then you could do stuff where, like, you need, like... And, and that's usually those societal things. People, I think, do them because they typically do return. They feel like they get that in the m- in, in the moment, where, like, I don't know, like, like parents could be crazy thankful for, like, a cake, but not acknowledge just, like, good interaction and proper behavior.

[00:27:09] Correct. Like, because most people don't acknowledge or value those things in their kind of ways because they themselves don't operate in those kind of proper levels to begin with. Like, they disrespect each other in their marriage. Like, they, like, talk nasty to each other, to n- talk, like, like poorly and stuff.

[00:27:23] But my 

[00:27:24] Eldar: dad buys the flowers 

[00:27:24] Toliy: on March 

[00:27:25] Eldar: 8th. You know? Of 

[00:27:26] Toliy: course. 

[00:27:26] Eldar: Women's Day. Yeah, Women's 

[00:27:27] Katherine: Day. 

[00:27:27] Toliy: Of course, you know? So like that. He's 

[00:27:29] Eldar: for- g- forgiven for 

[00:27:30] Toliy: that moment. Yeah. Yeah, and then there's plenty of times your dad, like, like I, I mean, I mean, I hear it all the time when he, like, when he messes up something and then he wants to do something for mom or, like- 

[00:27:38] Eldar: Yeah

[00:27:38] you 

[00:27:38] Toliy: know, like this- Yeah ... or like this. Yeah. Can you do this? Or he wants a- A piece ... or like a- He wants a piece of it ... like a car, you know? Or- 

[00:27:43] Eldar: It's, it's like, yeah, that's like- Yeah ... what is it called? The language of gift-giving. 

[00:27:46] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. It's a language that more, like, that kind of people please- 

[00:27:49] Katherine: It's called a love language now.

[00:27:50] Yeah. 

[00:27:51] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, the people- The different love 

[00:27:52] Katherine: languages ... 

[00:27:53] Toliy: the, the people-pleasing and stuff like that is more of the common language that, like, you just see out there. So oftentimes I think a lot of people- Yeah ... resort towards- Yeah ... trying to fit into that mold and act in that kind of way. 

[00:28:04] Eldar: That is the most primitive way of communication.

[00:28:06] Toliy: Yes. Yes. But also, like, the more, the most accessible one to- It's easy ... to most people. It's 

[00:28:11] Katherine: accessible. Yes, yes. Yeah. And I guess a person like me who struggles with communication- Yeah ... I guess, like, that has probably become, like, m- uh, a way of, for me to- 

[00:28:20] Toliy: Yeah, 'cause everyone understands a gift, for example, right?

[00:28:23] Like- Yeah ... getting someone something. Yeah. Like, that's just, like, you don't even really have to say anything. 

[00:28:26] Eldar: But there's a reason why I'm the celebrity in Colombia. 

[00:28:30] Katherine: Which is where my family is, my extended 

[00:28:32] Eldar: family. Okay. Every time I go over there, they give me Milo. Really. 

[00:28:36] Katherine: What is this Milo thing? What do you- Why, why, 

[00:28:38] Eldar: why I didn't get invited?

[00:28:39] Katherine: What, what, what's going on with Milo? 

[00:28:41] Eldar: I'm just saying, right? I didn't come there with, like, a ton of gifts. Yeah. You know, but I left an impression. Yeah. You know what I mean? Why? Because- 

[00:28:49] Katherine: Yeah, 

[00:28:50] Eldar: everyone loves you ... I came in, I, I gave my attention, I spoke to them, I paid attention to their feelings, needs or whatever it was at that moment, and we had a good time.

[00:28:59] But Katherine has to always, you know, l- you know, haul a whole luggage full of shit. You know what I'm saying? Just to show they're like, "Oh, Auntie from America is here and we, we care." You know? That's a different, it's a completely different language. 

[00:29:14] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:29:16] Eldar: So, like I said, this week, I mean, with slowing down a little bit, I think that you could talk about how you saw some insights where you needed to slow down, and you j- you needed to say, "You know what?

[00:29:26] I'm not ready for this." You know, you processed the whole situation the way you needed to process it properly, see it from different angles. Mm-hmm. Maybe you're just a people pleaser. Maybe you just wanna be a hero in their lives. 

[00:29:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:29:37] Eldar: Um, maybe you're not being compassionate towards your sister. We talked about that as well, where- 

[00:29:41] Katherine: Mm-hmm

[00:29:42] Eldar: your sister is going through something serious right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? In that, um, the way she's pulling her rain check is, is a survival mechanism for her, you know what I mean? Because she wants to do something nice for the kids, because the kids are in the dumps right now. 

[00:29:55] Katherine: Yeah.

[00:29:56] Ultimately, when you ment- when you mentioned that part, when we were talking about it, like that one just kinda like brought me back to Earth a little bit. Like, there's a reason why I did it, you know? Yeah. One, one of the reasons. 

[00:30:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:06] Katherine: And it's obviously 'cause, like, you know, I know that this is something that they would actually look forward to and enjoy.

[00:30:13] Eldar: Correct. But, but going all the way back to- 

[00:30:15] Katherine: But like- ... the 

[00:30:15] Eldar: fact that 

[00:30:16] Katherine: you weren't feeling- But let, but let's also, I just wanna like acknowledge too that like I enjoy when I gather with them collectively, like when I invite my family over or, or when I see them in general. It doesn't have to be- But with an ask direct

[00:30:28] me inviting them. 

[00:30:29] Eldar: With an ask direct. 

[00:30:29] Katherine: Yes. 

[00:30:30] Eldar: To make sure that everybody- Yes ... behaves and all 

[00:30:32] Katherine: of them, they, they behave good. But mo- but mostly, like we, we have a lot of laughs. We have a good time. Yeah. And it just, it feels nice. You know, I see- Yeah ... you know, we don't get together- Yeah ... often, maybe once or twice a year.

[00:30:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:41] Katherine: When I do, I have a good time. Like ultimately I do it because, like we will all enjoy it, you know? 

[00:30:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:48] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:30:49] Eldar: So to circle back is the fact that Catherine went through this whole motion of all these things. 

[00:30:53] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:53] Eldar: Right? She wasn't feeling so well. And she processed them properly. She- Mm-hmm ... also did her gym.

[00:30:58] She did her routine that she usually does. 

[00:31:00] Katherine: I talked to my therapist about it 

[00:31:01] Eldar: too. She talked to her therapist about it. She talked to me about it. 

[00:31:03] Katherine: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:31:03] Eldar: then she came back today. She's like, "Oh, I feel so much better, babe." And guess what? That conversation about inviting the sister came back around.

[00:31:10] She's like, "You know what? I think I'm okay for this weekend. I want them to come up, come by. I wanna throw the party for them. I have the energy. I have that." Right? And I asked her right away on the walk, I said, "Well, why? How do you, what do you attribute this to?" You know? And the whole point of being empowered is to be able to link it all back and understand what steps you took in order to get there.

[00:31:30] So then you can then potentially- 100% ... replicate that- Mm-hmm ... what you've done. Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:35] Toliy: It's not potentially. You, you 100% can. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:38] Toliy: There, there, there's no- Yeah ... like potential there. Correct. 

[00:31:41] Eldar: So then you can get empowered, Mikey- Yeah ... what we talk about. 

[00:31:43] Toliy: Yeah. Right? The, the, the issue is, is that a lot of people, I think, they don't put enough emphasis or value, um, especially I think this often happens when you have unattributed good days.

[00:31:55] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:31:55] Toliy: This, this, this happens where these, now these small things are like, ah, you know, like- 

[00:32:01] Eldar: It's whatever 

[00:32:01] Toliy: It's whatever now. Until 

[00:32:03] Eldar: you need- 

[00:32:03] Toliy: Listen to it as if we're 

[00:32:04] Eldar: important ... 

[00:32:05] Toliy: until you need to fall off the cliff again, and then you start over again, and then you get that opportunity- To 

[00:32:09] Eldar: be able to acknowledge it then properly

[00:32:11] Toliy: to, to be able to then acknow- maybe acknowledge it. You, you might not even know- You 

[00:32:14] Eldar: see what you just said? ... 

[00:32:14] Toliy: not acknowledge 

[00:32:15] Eldar: it You know what we talk about? What we talking about? That you don't have the ability to attribute the good stuff to yourself and give yourself those, those credits. That's the biggest issue.

[00:32:24] That in that moment then to y- to you, it's like, "Okay, cool, I'm having a good day," but you don't really know w- why you having a good day. You can never, you can never link it back to the stuff. 

[00:32:32] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well, yeah, that, but I think even before that, even before the linking of it, like, um, the, uh, the, the value of the lot of, of, of the small things that contribute towards the opportunity for you to feel good- 

[00:32:48] Eldar: Yes

[00:32:48] Toliy: right? Um, oftentimes- Or make the choice to be 

[00:32:50] Eldar: good ... 

[00:32:50] Toliy: yeah, like for example, like if, um, if Ca- like, if she gets bad sleep, right? Mm-hmm. And then she just goes and goes about her day. 

[00:32:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:59] Toliy: Right? Um, like if she, if, if like rule number one in her whole like system is like, "Hey, I need good sleep." 

[00:33:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:06] Toliy: Right? Yeah.

[00:33:06] Then it's like, well, you can't do anything until you get a good sleep. 

[00:33:09] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:33:09] Toliy: For example. You 

[00:33:09] Eldar: can't push 

[00:33:10] Toliy: through. But most- You 

[00:33:10] Eldar: can't force 

[00:33:11] Toliy: anything ... but a lot of people will not act- like, but probably internally, I mean, not, not probably, definitely 'cause she doesn't act on that, right? She does not feel strongly enough internally that like this is actually a real thing.

[00:33:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:21] Toliy: Because then, um, I, I would almost guarantee that one, the one, one thing that would happen is that, um, there would be a huge emphasis on good sleep, and there would be nothing else planned or done until- Agreed ... you actually feel good. Agreed. And then two, I would- 

[00:33:34] Eldar: That would show understanding. 

[00:33:35] Toliy: Yes.

[00:33:36] And then two, I would almost guarantee, guarantee that if there was actually a value on that- 

[00:33:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:33:43] Toliy: there would be a slow progress towards, you would actually know w- like how you can calculate to get guaranteed good sleep every single night. 

[00:33:51] Eldar: Agreed. I agree 

[00:33:52] Toliy: with that. Like there would be a formula that- Yes

[00:33:54] you would know, 

[00:33:54] okay. 

[00:33:54] Eldar: And you would protect that formula at all costs. 

[00:33:56] Toliy: Yes. Yes. 

[00:33:56] Eldar: You would send me downstairs to sleep downstairs. 

[00:33:58] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:33:59] Eldar: Potentially. 

[00:33:59] Toliy: Po- potentially. Yes. Yeah. For example, right? 

[00:34:02] Eldar: For example, yeah. No. Yes. I'm, I'm saying like she'd still get good sleep with me. 

[00:34:05] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, no. My, no, well, yeah, like- 

[00:34:09] Eldar: Yeah

[00:34:10] Toliy: if, if you once say like, "Hey, I don't know how to get good 

[00:34:12] Katherine: sleep- I, I have, I have tried one variable, and that one has not, that, that- Yeah ... that has not been like approved, getting Penny to sleep on, on like her own bed. 

[00:34:21] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, like I, I, I, I think- She's Daddy's girl ... step one- Mm-hmm ... is to acknowledge that like, hey, for e- for example, sleep is the most important thing.

[00:34:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:30] Toliy: But I don't know how to get good at, get good, good, good sleep, which is fine to like say that like that. Yeah. That like you actually feel that, hey, when you get good sleep, day, day is like good or like, you know- Has a 

[00:34:41] Eldar: chance ... 

[00:34:41] Toliy: has a chance to 

[00:34:42] Eldar: be good. The day has a chance of you being able to process 

[00:34:43] Toliy: it 

[00:34:43] Eldar: properly.

[00:34:44] Toliy: Yes. Yes. Then the next step is to figure out what leads you to good sleep. A- and, and I guarantee that that person's life will like fall in place to actually get that. 

[00:34:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:54] Toliy: You know? Um, but I think most people are like, "Hey, like- this isn't that important," or they're just like, "Fuck it, like I have shit to do," or like, you know, I have like the...

[00:35:05] You know, like you'll- 

[00:35:06] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[00:35:06] Toliy: you'll push aside- 

[00:35:07] Katherine: You just 

[00:35:08] Toliy: push ... those core values- 

[00:35:09] Katherine: You push, 

[00:35:10] Toliy: yeah ... to try to get the desires that, that you want, but then you always realize that you can't get what you want out of those things anyway. And then you only realize that afterwards, they're like, "Hey," like, "Yeah, this didn't work out as planned," or like- 

[00:35:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:35:22] Toliy: "I couldn't do this. Like I couldn't have this good workout anyway." Because, well, like, you know, you're not gonna have a good workout if you didn't get good sleep, for example. 

[00:35:30] Eldar: So all those times when you do, you, you do yoga, and your teacher says, "Be in the moment, be in the present," this is what he's trying to force you to be in.

[00:35:38] Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:38] In the present moment, to acknowledge, first of all, what is the most important thing, and then to be able to capture it from, uh, throughout the day. To always remember, to always to come back, what is actually important. Yeah. And then you'll be able to make decisions based on that- 

[00:35:52] Katherine: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:35:52] Eldar: first core, core value, if that's the case, right?

[00:35:57] Because nothing else will be good- 

[00:35:59] Katherine: Yeah, 'cause it affects so many things. It does 

[00:36:01] Eldar: affect many things. Like the 

[00:36:01] Katherine: outcome of, of, of the, my day- 

[00:36:03] Eldar: Now, now look ... you know, in a sense ... if you, if you're a person who does get good sleep consistently, let's just say 90 to 95% of the time, okay, and you do have a shit night one time, and you still have shit to do, I'm pretty sure you can, you can pull through.

[00:36:16] Well, yeah. Yeah, of course. You know what I'm saying? Because- 100% ... you've accumulated enough good and enough energy where you can, you know- You can push through ... be hungover or sleep-deprived, but still get your shit done. 

[00:36:27] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:36:27] Eldar: That's okay. Because you're 

[00:36:28] Toliy: not operating from like a- 

[00:36:29] Eldar: A deficit ... a deficit- Correct

[00:36:30] Toliy: 90% of the time, but like 100% of the time. 

[00:36:31] Eldar: Yeah, but for a person who operates out of a deficit every single time, your priorities are all backwards. 

[00:36:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:36:37] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:38] Eldar: And they continue to show that. 

[00:36:39] Katherine: Yeah. Well, in the past, like, uh, having to push through no matter what. Like, if you had a bad sleep, well, you still gotta get up and, like, go to work, for example, right?

[00:36:47] Yeah. So, like, um, uh, that I haven't had, like, a, a full shift yet, you know? Like, uh- Yeah, 

[00:36:52] Eldar: but that's like a, such a distant past that you can't even relate 

[00:36:56] Katherine: to that. Yeah, like I haven't f- had a, had a, had a, had a full shift of like, you know, I still have to like sometimes I still kind of push through because- 

[00:37:05] Eldar: Because you have to.

[00:37:07] Katherine: I just, um... Yeah, like it just, uh, I haven't figured out, like, like for example- You don't have to ... like if I- You feel like 

[00:37:13] Eldar: you 

[00:37:13] Katherine: have to ... nap- 

[00:37:14] Eldar: No, that's what, that's what I wanted her to say it ... 

[00:37:15] Katherine: you know? 

[00:37:15] Eldar: Yes. She didn't wanna say it. Yeah. You have to? 

[00:37:18] Katherine: What? 

[00:37:19] Eldar: Because you have to pus- push through? 

[00:37:21] Katherine: No, I guess I'm just, I just used to it.

[00:37:22] No, but internally- You know ... 

[00:37:23] Eldar: you do feel like 

[00:37:24] Toliy: you have to, right? 

[00:37:26] Katherine: Well, y- yeah, I guess so, because like- That's why you do it ... w- I'm like, what's the other option? Like let, lay in bed all day? You know? 

[00:37:31] Toliy: Yeah. What's wrong with that? What? Yeah. 

[00:37:33] Katherine: Well, my mental health crashes. Where do you have 

[00:37:35] Toliy: to sign in for like 

[00:37:36] Katherine: attendance?

[00:37:36] When, when I, when I like lay around and don't do anything, like- You know, sign your name into class ... like my mental health takes a, takes a, a big dip. Black, big dip. 

[00:37:43] Eldar: The problem is when you don't have the... The, the thing is, yeah, that's a double-edged sword for her because if you, if you awake- Right? Yeah. But you can't regulate your thoughts and your thinking as well.

[00:37:52] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:52] Eldar: Yeah. Right? If you have not put all those value systems, belief systems in proper places- 

[00:37:57] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:37:58] Eldar: right, everything's mumbo jumbo together- Yes ... and they're fighting one another. 

[00:38:02] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But see, th- there's also, like- It's 

[00:38:05] Eldar: wrong priorities ... 

[00:38:06] Toliy: there's, there's also, like, a poor association it sounds like with, again, laying in bed and, like, you know, sleeping in, sleeping in, for example.

[00:38:14] Well, 

[00:38:14] Eldar: yes. 

[00:38:14] Toliy: So, like, you have a- That's the value 

[00:38:15] Eldar: system ... 

[00:38:16] Toliy: y- so yes, you have a poor association with the most important thing that you need to have any kind of functional life. 

[00:38:21] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:38:22] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So, like, y- yeah, you're, you're, like, a, you're, like, trying to fill a bag with a hole in it. 

[00:38:28] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:38:30] Toliy: And you constantly keep putting stuff in and it just falls out- Falls out

[00:38:32] the other way. 

[00:38:32] Eldar: Yeah 

[00:38:33] Toliy: You know? This is 

[00:38:33] Eldar: true. 

[00:38:34] Toliy: So it's like, yeah, like, you're, like, uh, stabbing yourself in the back. 

[00:38:38] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Yeah. And that's why you can never get to a place where you can reason properly in order to attribute things to the right places. 

[00:38:45] Toliy: Yes. Yes. 

[00:38:46] Eldar: What causes what? Yeah. What's the cause and effect here?

[00:38:48] Yeah. How did I get here? Why is it a good day? Why is it a bad day? You never know. Yeah. You're always just shooting in the dark and pray- Yeah, yeah ... and praying for a good day. 

[00:38:57] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:38:58] Eldar: You're never empowered. 

[00:38:59] Toliy: Yeah. And of- oftentimes I feel like people that can stitch together, like, a few good days- Mm ... I think tho- those people constantly then wanna right away start adding more shit to the, to their life.

[00:39:09] Uh, 

[00:39:11] Eldar: like what? Like 

[00:39:12] Toliy: they're... Well, like, they have almost, like, a, uh- Self-sabotage? ... like a, well, no. Like, they have, like, they're almost on, like, a springboard, but it's, like, it, it's just, like, a, like a, uh, inflatable one that, like, will deflate very fast 'cause it's not a sustainable one 'cause it, they didn't have fundamental change.

[00:39:28] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:39:28] Toliy: And because they start feeling good- So they self-sabotage ... they wanna right a- well, they wanna right away start doing, like, more things- More shit ... or, like, right away- 

[00:39:33] Eldar: Buzzing ... 

[00:39:34] Toliy: versus, like, examining, like, say- saying, "Hey, like, this is pretty good. Let's just maintain 

[00:39:37] Eldar: this." How can I sustain this? 

[00:39:38] Toliy: Yes. Correct.

[00:39:39] Let's just maintain this. 

[00:39:39] Eldar: That's a very good point. Right? That's a very good point. 

[00:39:41] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:39:42] Toliy: You know? 

[00:39:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:43] Toliy: Um, 

[00:39:44] Eldar: yeah. So did you, did you hear what he said in the last point? 

[00:39:49] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah, I 

[00:39:51] Eldar: agree. That, that when you springboard, uh, when you spr- uh, stitch together two or three da- good days- 

[00:39:57] Katherine: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:39:57] Eldar: right, all of a sudden you just wanna do more shit.

[00:40:00] Katherine: Yeah, of course. 

[00:40:01] Eldar: You start f- piling up more stuff. '

[00:40:02] Katherine: Cause you're feeling good. 

[00:40:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:03] Katherine: You're feeling good, yeah. 

[00:40:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:04] Katherine: That makes sense. 

[00:40:05] Eldar: Instead of slowing down, like you said- Yeah ... and then examining exactly, like, how did you get here? 

[00:40:10] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:10] Eldar: How can we stay here and, and, and find peace? 

[00:40:13] Katherine: Mm-hmm. Sustainable 

[00:40:14] Eldar: peace.

[00:40:14] Yeah. But I think 

[00:40:15] Toliy: it's almost because you feel like you're on, when you feel good, and that, like, like... Like, I remember feeling this, and I feel like whe- when you f- felt- Like this, you almost feel like you're on borrowed time, so you need to spend it as fa- as fast as possible 

[00:40:29] Eldar: Oh, wow. That's interesting. 

[00:40:30] Toliy: You know?

[00:40:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:31] Toliy: Because you feel good, but- 

[00:40:32] Katherine: Because 

[00:40:32] Toliy: maybe- ... 

[00:40:32] Katherine: you really need to seize the moment ... maybe you're already- Oh, wow ... you're already foreseeing that you're gonna have- Yeah ... another dip. Yes. 

[00:40:37] Toliy: That's also 

[00:40:37] Eldar: true. Because you're foreseeing the self-sabotage already. 

[00:40:39] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. And remember, I always said to you- That's interesting.

[00:40:41] Eldar: Yes ... 

[00:40:42] Toliy: that I always felt something- The, the, some shoe's gonna drop ... I always felt s- when, and I was feeling good- 

[00:40:45] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:40:45] Toliy: and I, and like, like good things were happening in my life, I would always feel they were like, "Hey- Yeah ... I feel like-" Something bad's about to happen ... "like s- something bad is due." I know. You know?

[00:40:52] I, I- That I always, like, had this, like- I can relate ... feeling, you know? Mm-hmm. Because, and then that's how I always felt. I was always operating on, like, borrowed time and, and I n- and I need to spend it all right now. You were a 

[00:41:02] Eldar: bad sinner, weren't 

[00:41:03] Toliy: you? You know? Like, you know? So, like, yeah. You, you- Yeah ... you could never, like- 

[00:41:06] Eldar: Like a thief.

[00:41:07] Toliy: Yeah. Like, yeah, like you're a thief. Like a thief. You stole stuff and, you know, the cops are like- They're 

[00:41:10] Eldar: coming ... 

[00:41:11] Toliy: like it's like when you're playing, like, a- Yeah ... do you remember, like, if- Yeah ... if you guys played when you were younger? 

[00:41:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:15] Toliy: Uh, like a, like a Grand Theft Auto? 

[00:41:18] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:41:18] Toliy: yeah. And you did some crimes, you start getting stars.

[00:41:20] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:41:21] Toliy: And you know the cops are gonna be coming- Yes, yes ... right at you. Yeah. So you have to fig- figure how do you, how do you get away or how do you, like, what 

[00:41:26] Eldar: do you- Yeah ... what do you 

[00:41:26] Toliy: do? 

[00:41:27] Eldar: Yeah. So you feel that? Yep. 

[00:41:31] Katherine: I do. A, a little bit less now. I used to feel like that more. I'm, I definitely felt, f- feel that less, but yeah, I think once in a while that creeps in.

[00:41:40] Toliy: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's probably, like, the not connecting of, like, that you're, one, like, deservant or that you actually know what's contributing towards, like, these good, good feelings. That's the thing. 

[00:41:50] Eldar: If you, if you never know- Yeah ... if you never know, uh, what's actually the association is between that, those good days and what you've done, your actions, yeah, you just got kind of like a, a gambler.

[00:42:00] You're just gambling every single day. 

[00:42:02] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. That's how I... Yeah. Yeah, it's 

[00:42:03] Toliy: like a roll 

[00:42:03] Eldar: of dice. I'll put my chips on red today. That's, that's how I- Tomorrow I'm gonna put on, on black. There's like no- Yeah, 

[00:42:06] Katherine: it's just a roll of dice ... sometimes it feels very inconsistent. 

[00:42:07] Eldar: It's just a roll of dice. 

[00:42:08] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, it's a roll of 

[00:42:09] Katherine: the dice.

[00:42:09] Yeah. 

[00:42:10] Toliy: You know, ver- ver- versus I think it's, um, very, very, um, doable to have a calculated effort- 

[00:42:18] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:42:19] Toliy: as to what, what, what happens. But I think it's impossible if you don't value those, like, what's, I guess, more in society considered very basic, like, core things. That's right. Very, very, very basic 

[00:42:30] Katherine: things. The first, uh, Maslow- 

[00:42:34] Eldar: Hierarchy of 

[00:42:34] Toliy: needs

[00:42:35] Katherine: yeah, the, the only, like, the very first one is, like- 

[00:42:37] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:42:38] Katherine: food, shelter, sleep. 

[00:42:40] Toliy: Safety. You know, 

[00:42:41] Katherine: I don't have sleep, you know? Yeah. Then there's, like, safety and, you know. 

[00:42:46] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, I felt like I had, you know, I was lacking sleep every single day for, for, for years. That, that's what I, like, actually had. Like, I was actually lacking sleep 'cause I had a lot of anxiety and I, like, could not sleep.

[00:42:58] Like, it was very difficult for me to fall asleep. It was very difficult... Well, the hardest challenge was falling asleep. I was very, very hard for me to 

[00:43:05] Katherine: fall asleep. Did you have difficulty s- staying asleep as well? 

[00:43:07] Toliy: I had difficulty staying asleep as 

[00:43:08] well. 

[00:43:08] Katherine: For me, for me, it was definitely- 

[00:43:09] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:43:10] Katherine: staying 

[00:43:10] Toliy: asleep.

[00:43:10] Um, yeah, yeah, I had difficulties, yeah. Falling asleep, staying asleep, just anything with sleep was, like, a burden, you know? Like, it was not something like... I, I, like, I never had it, was like, oh, I, like- I look forward to, like, sleep, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, it would be like a thing that, like, you almost need to have some of it to, like, be somewhat functional.

[00:43:28] Katherine: You, you almost- 

[00:43:29] Toliy: You know? 

[00:43:29] Katherine: B- you, you... What you do is you just develop a, an anxiety about it. 

[00:43:33] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, you 

[00:43:34] Katherine: have a bad- You know? Because you're like, "Oh, shit," like, "Here 

[00:43:36] Toliy: we go," like- Yeah, you have a bad, like, um, association with it. 

[00:43:39] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:43:39] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:43:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:40] Toliy: Um, but I think it's possible, ve- very possible, I know it is, to like, you know, com- completely, like, 360 that- Mm

[00:43:49] and, like, have a greatest association- 

[00:43:51] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[00:43:52] Toliy: with it, you know? Like- 

[00:43:53] Eldar: So much so that you're yawning. 

[00:43:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:43:55] Eldar: See? 

[00:43:56] Toliy: Well, the yawning is, like, a pressure relief. 

[00:43:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:43:59] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:44:00] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:44:00] Katherine: It's my, uh, frustration. What is it? Uh- Yeah ... when you know when they're like- 

[00:44:03] Eldar: You're getting, you're gonna get good sleep tonight

[00:44:05] tension or whatever You're gonna get good sleep tonight. 

[00:44:06] Katherine: I think so. 

[00:44:07] Eldar: Yeah. So do you see how empowerment is actually baked in in, uh, those types of decisions and- Yeah ... being able to see those things? Definitely. 

[00:44:13] Katherine: Of course. And it's not, like, a chance thing. It's not luck. 

[00:44:17] Eldar: No, that's what you said. You said chance.

[00:44:18] Katherine: You know, it's not a 

[00:44:18] Eldar: chance thing. You know? It's not chance. It's not hoping. 

[00:44:20] Katherine: It's, it's, you know, it's, uh- 

[00:44:22] Eldar: Wishing ... 

[00:44:22] Katherine: it's actionable steps, right, that you take, I guess, in- 

[00:44:26] Eldar: Uh, 

[00:44:27] Katherine: maybe- ... like, your day to day ... 

[00:44:28] Eldar: maybe it's, like, desired choices you wanna call them if you wanna be- Desired 

[00:44:31] Katherine: choices. Okay ... 

[00:44:32] Eldar: you know, make certain desired choices that- Yeah

[00:44:34] are actually gonna lead you to a place where you want to be. 

[00:44:37] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:44:37] Eldar: But the choices have to be, uh, prioritized to, for self-care, right? Mm. The smaller choices that will accumulate. Oh, I don't feel good today? Oh, I didn't get a good sleep. All right, I'll take a nap. 

[00:44:47] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:44:47] Eldar: Number one. I did that- All 

[00:44:48] Katherine: right ... as well this week.

[00:44:49] Remember I said, you know- I know ... the day that I was supposed to... I, I, you know, I did a 

[00:44:53] Eldar: workout- I think that if you start keeping a chart of where you ca- as Catherine, um, identified what things actually make you feel good and how you protect that, that peace, and then see, like, oh, how many times that I've done this today, like take a nap, right?

[00:45:10] Not rush somewhere. Like, oh, I have a class at this, but, like, you're tired and you're sleepy, or you're doing something else. You said no to that, you know? Any time where you, you identified those actions that make you feel like a chicken with no head- 

[00:45:23] Mm-hmm ... 

[00:45:23] you start removing those things. Compare it and you'll see, like, oh, wow, I actually do feel better.

[00:45:28] Toliy: But, but I 

[00:45:29] Eldar: also think- I'm a lot 

[00:45:30] calmer. Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:30] Toliy: But I also think that, like, um, first I think the question is, which I, I, like, I think if you survey a lot of people, one thing that they would say, like, um, yes for, for, for sure. Um, you first I think have to believe that it is, like, that your actions are, like, that, like, you, you, you have to agree and believe that it's possible to do this to begin with.

[00:45:54] You know, like- Well, do you 

[00:45:54] Eldar: believe? 

[00:45:55] Toliy: Well, like, like, for example, like, again, a lot of people, like- Why do you think that's the first step? Like my dad, for example- 

[00:45:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:46:00] Toliy: right? He, he's definitely more... He has actually a belief that life is, like, a dice roll thing, you know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:06] Eldar: So it's 

[00:46:07] like- Yeah, but he has that, but then the, the soul always dictates otherwise.

[00:46:10] Toliy: Well, sure. But I'm saying that, like- You know? ... the, the, the answer in hi- in, in, in his head, for example, is not that like, "Hey- I can actually, I actually dictate all this Mm-hmm. This is all my fault, good or bad, for example. 

[00:46:22] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:46:22] Toliy: Yeah. Right? And then I can actually do things that will lead to me, like, feeling how I want to feel.

[00:46:28] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, like, I, I think first you have to believe that, like, that is actually how things work, which I think a lot of people would not believe that. Because they feel like, again, like that someone else is dictating their life, they're oppressed by like the world- Yeah ... for example. 

[00:46:44] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:46:44] Toliy: They're, they're not happy with their, like, scenario. Yeah. And they just think 

[00:46:48] Eldar: that 

[00:46:48] Toliy: like, 

[00:46:48] Eldar: hey- Yeah. So, so, so at least the, the empowerment has to first come with that, with knowing that 

[00:46:52] Toliy: it's 

[00:46:52] Eldar: possible. 

[00:46:52] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's like, for example, if, if you say like- Well, awareness. 

[00:46:55] Katherine: You need to have awareness first of what's going 

[00:46:57] Toliy: on.

[00:46:57] Yeah, like if you say like, "Hey, um, yeah, while Trump's in office, like, shit's gonna be fucked," for example. 

[00:47:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:02] Toliy: Okay. So now like next two years you already know that like, hey, like- Yeah ... you can't really dictate your own life, 'cause you're saying that like, "Hey- Shit's fucked ... while that person's in office, shit's gonna be fucked."

[00:47:11] Or the opposite way. Yeah. If Democrats are in office, "Hey, until we get a good Republican in- 

[00:47:15] Eldar: Yeah, yeah ... 

[00:47:15] Toliy: yeah, things are gonna be bad." 

[00:47:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:17] Toliy: So, like, if this is how you talk- 

[00:47:18] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:47:19] Toliy: well, how, like, how can you dic- dic- dictate- Yeah ... how you feel going around things? Well, it's, it's 

[00:47:23] Katherine: like, like generally, like, like some people have like, like for example somebody posted that they're gonna throw a party for their graduation, right?

[00:47:32] And then some people in the comments will say, like, "Well, how can you h- throw a party at a time like this?" 

[00:47:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:47:36] Katherine: Right? It's, it's- Yeah ... the, uh, it's the, you know, uh, I guess like small moments can happen, can't happen while bigger things are happening. Like, life still is happening. Like, like- 

[00:47:47] Toliy: Well, al- also-

[00:47:47] things 

[00:47:47] Katherine: are happening ... I 

[00:47:48] Toliy: think mainly for those people who are saying that, like, it 

[00:47:50] Katherine: sounds like 

[00:47:50] Toliy: those- Like, what am I supposed to 

[00:47:51] Katherine: do, bury myself? ... 

[00:47:52] Toliy: those things are way more important for- 

[00:47:54] Katherine: Right ... 

[00:47:54] Toliy: them than the, their own lives. 

[00:47:55] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:47:56] Toliy: You know? Like tho- those things are their lives. Yeah. Like the news and, like, that kind of stuff.

[00:48:00] So yeah, I feel like, yeah, I don't feel that, like, you can start doing these things and be convinced of any of these things until you actually have that, like you, you have to have that, like, um, there, there's like a feeling I think that, like, you have that you, you do have a say in things. Mm. And, like, it is actually 

[00:48:20] Eldar: possible.

[00:48:20] Toliy: Possible. Mm-hmm. And if you're not convinced of that, then the, these, these actions will not add up to you. You, you won't be able to, like, um, to attribute anything. 

[00:48:30] Eldar: I agree. So with that being said, how will your conversations with yourself change? 

[00:48:39] Katherine: Mm. I think it has to start with sleep. 

[00:48:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:43] Katherine: You know? 

[00:48:44] Eldar: Why, why sleep?

[00:48:45] Katherine: Um, it's like I don't, I don't sleep well, you know? But, um, I think my, my self-talk about it, um, I definitely can be more mindful of it, pay more attention and, and, and I th- I don't know, begin there. Like, is, is that what you're saying? 

[00:49:09] Eldar: Yes and no Like 

[00:49:11] Katherine: there's a mindset there. There's a- Yeah, 

[00:49:13] Eldar: but, but- ... there's a shift

[00:49:13] but then, but then we already talked about, you already brought up another factor. Well, I can't sleep because I can't shut off my mind. 

[00:49:20] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:49:23] Eldar: So it's, uh, uh, to me, it's not sleep. To me, it's the argument, the argument of what's in your mind and what's actually keeping you up. 

[00:49:33] Katherine: Nothing important. 

[00:49:35] Eldar: But there's clearly something important.

[00:49:37] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:49:38] Eldar: Something that's keeping you up. 

[00:49:40] Toliy: Yeah, like I was always anxious before I was even anxious. Like, I would be- because I had this association with things and this bad attitude- 

[00:49:46] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:49:46] Toliy: I would always like, like, I would always pre- prepare for like the, like the bad internal feelings I had before they even happened.

[00:49:55] Eldar: With PTSD already. 

[00:49:56] Toliy: Yeah, so like- It's like 

[00:49:56] Eldar: conditioned ... 

[00:49:57] Toliy: like not, not- Yeah ... nothing even happened yet for me to like, feel anxious, for example. 

[00:50:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:02] Toliy: But I was already feeling anxious. Preparing 

[00:50:03] Eldar: for 

[00:50:03] Toliy: it. Yeah. And like- Mm ... because I got so routine-based in it- 

[00:50:06] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:50:06] Toliy: I could never have a good attitude, like, or like a good, like, feeling towards like, um, like sleep for ex- for example- 

[00:50:14] Eldar: Yeah

[00:50:14] Toliy: 'cause I was always anticipating the, the anxiety. 

[00:50:17] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:50:18] Toliy: Even without anything happening. 

[00:50:19] Eldar: So you see? So I don't think that you, he can like even convince himself. Like, if you're already feeling that way, you're so amped up, uh, you going into sleep, then yeah, you first have to combat anxiety. 

[00:50:30] Katherine: Mm. 

[00:50:31] Eldar: And that's a, that's an ar- that's a different argument- Yeah

[00:50:32] that you're having in your head.

[00:50:38] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:50:41] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:50:41] like, like- All right. What questions will you ask yourself to say like, 

[00:50:44] to, to be able to secure good sleep?

[00:50:50] Katherine: Yeah, I don't know.

[00:50:54] Eldar: Hmm? I 

[00:50:54] Katherine: don't know. 

[00:50:55] Eldar: What would you suggest? 

[00:50:56] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and, and I mean, like, I still get, at times, for example, before sleep, like I still get m- negative thoughts, but when I do get them, I'm, I am, um ... It's v- relatively easy, like 95 or more percent chance for me to, to like, to, to get to a point where I actually agree that they're actually not real.

[00:51:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:21] Toliy: For example. 

[00:51:22] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:51:24] Toliy: So then because of that, it makes sleep effortless for, for me. 

[00:51:26] Eldar: No. 

[00:51:26] Toliy: And I can repeatedly go to sleep. I have no issues falling asleep. No. Like all- almost ever. 

[00:51:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:34] Toliy: And I almost ever have no i- no issues staying asleep either. But 

[00:51:36] Eldar: there was one, there was one variable or one thing that you used to do that you said that was also very important.

[00:51:45] I wonder if you still do it. Do you drink a hot cup of Milo before you go to 

[00:51:50] Toliy: bed? I knew you 

[00:51:52] Eldar: were 

[00:51:53] Toliy: gonna say that. Huh? I, I, I, I actually have a, uh, what, what's that thing called where, where you put like the essential oil and it puts like the- 

[00:52:00] Eldar: Oh, yeah, aroma ... 

[00:52:01] Toliy: I have a Milo aro- aromatherapy machine- ... that just has like Milo, 

[00:52:05] Eldar: uh- 

[00:52:05] That smells 

[00:52:06] Toliy: so good

[00:52:06] smells in the room. 

[00:52:07] Eldar: Oh, very 

[00:52:08] good actually. Yeah. So babe? What are you gonna do?

[00:52:13] Because prioritizing sleep is not gonna work. 

[00:52:17] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. I don't 

[00:52:18] Toliy: know. If you 

[00:52:18] Katherine: have 

[00:52:19] Toliy: those thoughts, 

[00:52:20] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:52:21] Toliy: like no soothing soul. No 

[00:52:22] Katherine: chance. I, I, I would say this- You know? ... like I, I don't feel that like e- each night I have like, mm- 

[00:52:30] Eldar: Intrusive thoughts. 

[00:52:31] Katherine: Yeah, like negative thoughts, m- maybe some nights, but like not every night I, I, I, I feel like bad thoughts or negative thoughts.

[00:52:40] Um, but it's almost like, um, it's like doing things during the day, whether distractions or whatever, the things that keep me busy, keep me out, keeps me out of my mind a little bit. And then the moment that like I'm laying in bed, um, and things quiet down, I think that's like my, my, almost like my brain wakes up a little bit.

[00:53:05] Eldar: Yeah, so then maybe- 

[00:53:06] Katherine: So during the day it's a little bit sh- shut off- Yeah ... and then at night it kinda- 

[00:53:12] Eldar: So it means you're just distracting- And- ... yourself throughout the day. 

[00:53:14] Katherine: And what- Yes ... what's happening is that like I, I, I'm not exactly having like negative or scary or like weird thoughts. They're just like...

[00:53:24] But they're thoughts, and they're just going through, and now it's like, like the mall just opened and you have like a bunch of people rushing into the stores. Like now that's what's happening in my, my, my mind. Like, like now it's just busy and moving, that there's all this like- 

[00:53:36] Toliy: Yeah, so maybe then like-

[00:53:38] commotion ... like you need to spend your energy or like- Yeah ... your priorities to address those things during the day so that you can, you know- 

[00:53:44] Katherine: So how do I do that? 

[00:53:46] Toliy: Well, I guess depends, you know, what- 

[00:53:47] Eldar: Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all- Yeah ... I mean, some of the things that you struggle with, you struggle internally by yourself.

[00:53:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:53:52] Eldar: Right? One problem that you were dealing with is your sister situation. When you brought it to light, you brought it to me, you brought it to Hadas, right? 

[00:53:58] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:59] Eldar: You guy- we, we tackled it, right? So that kinda like put that to rest and make you feel f- Yeah ... make you feel a certain type of way. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:54:04] It relieved some pressure. That's what it is. A lot of times you have these arguments or these issues that you're having- 

[00:54:09] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[00:54:10] Eldar: by yourself. And- Yeah ... because of the fact that you're not yet trained or properly know how to go through them, right- Mm-hmm ... reas- reason through them- Mm-hmm ... you get stuck. 

[00:54:18] Katherine: Yes.

[00:54:19] Toliy: Well, you al- I do get stuck ... you almost are suffering with like, like it's like suffering with like a problem that you're not equipped to handle anyway, but you're like- Yeah. 

[00:54:26] Katherine: Right ... 

[00:54:26] Toliy: stuck. Like some- someone's like saying, "Hey, Kat, I need you to figure out how to w- launch this rocket into space," and you're just like, well, like you're not supposed to know how to launch this rocket to space a- anyway.

[00:54:36] But if you ask like an engineer, for example, they could help you without you having the stress of feeling that you need to figure out how to launch these rockets to space like on your own. 

[00:54:44] Katherine: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 

[00:54:47] Eldar: You know? So there's a lot of those, probably those things where you, you put yourself under the gun w- and put yourself pressure, give yourself pressure to try to solve.

[00:54:57] And then because all these loose ends are in, in you- 

[00:54:59] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[00:55:00] Eldar: right? You, you- Yeah, that's right ... you are constantly just kinda like, "Hey, like, what the hell to do?" And you just take them to bed probably. 

[00:55:08] Katherine: I mean, I, yeah, I, I agree. I just, I don't know what else- 

[00:55:12] Eldar: Well, the whole point- I, I don't know what, like, what's the next step here

[00:55:13] the whole point of this conversation is to be able to, you know, um, recognize some of the things that, um, are the variables that help us, help us get good days, and recognize those things, and attribute to those. And then obviously promote those things in your life as much as possible. 'Cause a lot of times we don't know, like we talked about, what is a good day?

[00:55:34] Why is it a good day? What's, what's a bad day? Why is it a bad day? 

[00:55:37] Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:38] You know? So raising that awareness to know that is to slowly to empower you to be able to do it more consistently. 

[00:55:48] Okay. 

[00:55:49] You know? Ultimately, I think that, uh, it's just raising awareness in the beginning, 

[00:55:57] right? 

[00:55:57] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's like, like it's like a raising of awareness of these things.

[00:56:03] Now, um, the, the, like, the thing that I think will happen is that, like, when you're dealing with a lot of these things, like, in your mind, right? You don't, like... You suffer with them, but, like, the... To, to, to me, like, as you raise awareness, you're not gonna be able to stop thinking about that, like, this is actually, like, a thing and, like, an actual possibility.

[00:56:26] But if you bring them to life, I think you'll actually feel initially much worse, and it'll hurt a lot more, but these things will actually then be resolved. 

[00:56:35] Eldar: And then- Do you think she has to get ob- ob- obsessive about it? Does that help? 

[00:56:39] Toliy: Well, I don't know if it, uh, like, to, to, to me the more, the, the thing to me that, that it's, like, natural about this is that, like, again, you can't unsee or unthink these thoughts.

[00:56:49] Mm-hmm. You know? You're not gonna just be able to be like, "All right, never mind." 

[00:56:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:53] Toliy: You might be able to do that, but only for a, well- 

[00:56:56] Eldar: Period of 

[00:56:56] time 

[00:56:56] Toliy: until they come back around ... for some period of time until they come back around and you start feeling the pain again, and then you're not gonna forget about this conversation.

[00:57:02] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:57:02] Toliy: It's impossible. 

[00:57:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:04] Toliy: You know? So eventually, yeah, it's gonna be, like, up to you is like, yeah, do you wanna suffer kind of in your own world, like, o- on your own and just, like, have these things, like, kinda like simmering- 

[00:57:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:57:15] Toliy: you know? 

[00:57:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:16] Toliy: Or just, like, if you bring them out to light, you'll actually be able to get through them, actually tackle them- 

[00:57:22] Eldar: Mm

[00:57:22] and 

[00:57:22] Toliy: then they will no longer, like, haunt you internally, like, anymore. 

[00:57:25] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:57:26] Toliy: And that's what, to me, like, a lot of these things, like, they, like, will bother us for su- such long periods of time, where, like, if we actually address them and we actually did something about them- 

[00:57:36] Eldar: They're gone ... 

[00:57:36] Toliy: they're gone. Yeah. But, like- They're really-

[00:57:38] there's, like, there, there's, like, an internal- Yeah ... fear of, like, actually- Letting go of that shit ... yeah, of that, of actually doing it. 

[00:57:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:43] Toliy: And then you n- you never have to think or suffer about these things again. Yeah. It is definitely a painful experience 'cause you actually have to bring these things to, like, light, and it, it does hurt, but then it actually hurts and it's gone.

[00:57:55] It doesn't, like, just, like, continuously prick you- 

[00:57:58] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:57:58] Toliy: a little bit forever. Like, you just get cut. You have, like, the wound. It heals, and it's done. That's it. And then, like, those things can no longer hurt, hurt you in that kind of way, like, any longer- Mm-hmm ... because it's done. Like, it's done. 

[00:58:12] Eldar: Is that appealing?

[00:58:15] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:58:15] Eldar: It is. 

[00:58:16] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:58:17] Eldar: Is it scary that y- potentially Catherine, as you know it, will be gone forever? 

[00:58:22] Katherine: No, not anymore. That would've been scary a few years ago. 

[00:58:25] Eldar: You had enough of it. 

[00:58:26] Katherine: Yeah. Well, it was, uh ... Like, all these things were scary for me at, at one point. Mm-hmm. You know, tackling this, that. Um, so like, it's not, like, it's not scary anymore.

[00:58:39] Mm. It's just, I know it's, it's challenging. Mm-hmm. You know, I know that these things r- take time, and I know it's challenging, and I'm not so fast to, like, turn on that switch. Mm. Like, in the moment, like, I want to, but it actually takes time for me to, like, get there. So, um, no, I'm not afraid of it, but I know change is challenging, you know?

[00:59:02] Eldar: If change is so good, Toliy- 

[00:59:04] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:59:04] Eldar: and so appealing, why is it so challenging? 

[00:59:07] Toliy: Well, because it's like, you know, I think even though Cat- So who is challenging? 

[00:59:11] Eldar: To the ego? 

[00:59:12] Toliy: Yeah, I think, like, even though Cat is saying that, like, she's not afraid, for example- 

[00:59:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:59:17] Toliy: yeah, I think the ego- In the 

[00:59:18] Katherine: moment. Yeah, right now.

[00:59:19] The n- the next, the next time I have a situation- Yeah ... like this one- 

[00:59:22] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:59:22] Katherine: obviously, is, is, is 

[00:59:23] Toliy: different. Yeah. When you're actually in that scenario- 

[00:59:25] Katherine: That's when the challenge comes ... 

[00:59:26] Toliy: it is, like, the scariest- 

[00:59:28] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[00:59:28] Toliy: thing that you could possibly feel. 

[00:59:30] Eldar: Mm, of 

[00:59:31] Toliy: letting go 

[00:59:31] Eldar: of that 

[00:59:31] Toliy: nonsense. Of letting go of the nonsense.

[00:59:33] Yeah. And, um, i- i- i- in that moment if, like ... I- it, it is almost impossible to, to let it go because it's like you're, you're almost like, like you can't convince yourself to let go of what's actually bad for you. 

[00:59:50] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:59:50] Toliy: And which is like, again, when others on the outside are looking at you, like, they're like, like, "What's, what's wrong with you?"

[00:59:56] You know? Mm-hmm. Like, 

[00:59:57] Eldar: you're 

[00:59:57] Toliy: holding onto what's actually bad for you, and you're, like, protecting what's bad for you at all costs. Mm-hmm. If we all think about that, we're all like, hey, like, in the moment, like, we're morons. We're morons. 

[01:00:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:06] Toliy: Like, we're protecting- Like, what's wrong with us? ... the things that don't serve us, like, or, like, that, like, hurt, hurt us- 

[01:00:11] Eldar: Yeah

[01:00:11] Toliy: more than the things that do. That more- No, because changing is a- ... 

[01:00:14] Katherine: more than things 

[01:00:15] Eldar: that, 

[01:00:15] Katherine: like, actually- ... 

[01:00:15] Toliy: is more, is- Yeah ... can be, is more painful. Yeah. So I think in that mo- moment, you, you're mo- it, like, it's more of, like, an insanity, you know? 100%. Like, you're, you're insane. 

[01:00:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:24] Toliy: Right? Like, who would, who would consciously protect or hold onto something that's not good for them?

[01:00:29] Eldar: Only the ego. 

[01:00:30] Toliy: Only the ego, yeah. So I feel like, yeah, uh, uh, oh, no, like, I think right now it sounds like it's, like you're not afraid. But in the moment where it's like, hey, you gotta push the button, you know- 

[01:00:42] Eldar: You 

[01:00:43] Toliy: ain't got it. Yeah. That's, that's, that's when you'd be like, say, like, "Next time." 

[01:00:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:47] Toliy: That, that's how it always feels.

[01:00:49] Yeah. Like, "Hey, like, uh- Yeah ... I'll, I'll, I'll get to it ... I'll get to 

[01:00:52] Eldar: it." Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:53] Toliy: Yeah. So then the argument is not big enough. The argument's not big enough. That, that's also why, again- You need to be convinced that, like, you actually can, you actually can dictate these kinds of things. Like, it's actually possible- Mm-hmm

[01:01:06] and you have that, like, you don't have to have something figured out, I think. You have to have a, uh, like, a unrelenting, like, belief that, like, it actually is that way. Like, it's actually, like, you, you can actually touch the sand. That's how 

[01:01:18] Eldar: it works. 

[01:01:19] Toliy: Yeah, I, I, I, I th- I think so. It's like, you can't just, like, manufacture, for example, like, touching the sand.

[01:01:25] You have to actually know that, like, you can actually do it. Mm-hmm. Like, it's actually possible to piece these things together- Mm ... and that, like, you have power of that, and like, you can actually do this and dictate your life. Like, this is actually a thing. It's not dependent on others or, like, societal processes or rules or, like, uh, like- 

[01:01:45] Eldar: That's an empowering belief, babe.

[01:01:47] Toliy: Yeah, like- 

[01:01:47] Eldar: Do you have that? 

[01:01:48] Katherine: Say that again? 

[01:01:50] Toliy: Like, the, the, the belief that, like, um, everything is actually your... Like, for example, like, your fault, both goo- good and bad. Um, that like, you have no feelings of, like, that outside forces dic- dictate any part of, like, your life. Like, absolutely, like, like, zero. Um, the only possible things are, like, may- maybe, like, crazy extreme circumstances that are, like, probably unlikely to happen, you know?

[01:02:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:19] Toliy: Um, and if they do happen, like, you don't have control of those things anyway. Anyway, yeah. You know? So you, you don't even have to have them in your head. But, like, you have to have that kind of unrelenting belief that, like- 

[01:02:30] Eldar: You can do it ... 

[01:02:31] Toliy: yeah, that, like, you can- It's possible ... y- y- yeah, like, you actually have the ability to control your own reality for good things and for bad things.

[01:02:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:40] Toliy: And it's all your fault. It's all your fault for the bad stuff, uh, or, like, the negative stuff, or, like, the stuff that you don't like, and it's all your fault for the, for the good stuff, too. I think most people feel like there's something that's, like, stopping them, that only if they had this, then they would get that- External stuff

[01:02:58] for 

[01:02:58] Katherine: example. No, I think, like, I believe it, but I have, like, I have blips and moments where I am not... I, I don't know. 

[01:03:10] Toliy: So, like, what are those things, do you 

[01:03:11] Katherine: think, like- Because, like, I, I, I definitely don't sit here and, and like think that somebody else is, like, in control of, like, my life. Like, I believe that my choices lead me to, you know...

[01:03:22] Unless, you know, there are certain s- circumstances, right? Like, things that happen that- 

[01:03:26] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:03:26] Katherine: are out of your control. But, like, generally, I think that, like, I'm, I'm in control. 

[01:03:34] Toliy: So then 

[01:03:34] Katherine: what are those things? You know what I mean? Like, I have, like, I have the key to the car is what I'm saying, you know? So 

[01:03:38] Toliy: you actually believe this?

[01:03:40] Katherine: Yes. But I think I also have my moments where- 

[01:03:43] Toliy: So what, what leads you actually- ... 

[01:03:44] Katherine: the belief derails ... 

[01:03:45] Toliy: what, like, what leads you to believe that, like, that's actually even, like, a thing? 

[01:03:48] Katherine: Mm. 

[01:03:50] Toliy: Like, like, why aren't there, like- What 

[01:03:51] Eldar: evidence do you have? Yeah. This is what he asking. I'm 

[01:03:54] Katherine: tr- I'm, like, trying to think of, um- 

[01:03:57] Eldar: Like how did you get to this belief?

[01:03:59] 'Cause it's a good one, he says. If you actually know- 

[01:04:02] Toliy: Yeah, if you actually have evidence- ... and you believe this ... as to, hey, like that, like this is 

[01:04:04] Katherine: real I would just say I lean more towards like that frame of thinking- 

[01:04:09] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:04:09] Katherine: than, than not. Because before- I 

[01:04:12] Eldar: know ... 

[01:04:12] Katherine: I wasn't. So how'd you get here? So like I lean more towards this frame, this mindset, but I, yeah, like I, I, it's definitely not perfect, you know?

[01:04:20] I have my, you know, I don't know whether it's just like my emotions like sometimes get the best of me. Mm. Or expectations. Like for example, expectations. I g- I get disappointed or, you know, like I, I still fall. Like I, I, I fall all the time. 

[01:04:34] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:35] Katherine: You know? So I, I can't say that like if I believed it 100% and I was so sure, then that wouldn't that not happen to me?

[01:04:43] Allowing expectations- Well, you would, you, 

[01:04:45] Eldar: you would have- ... and, and things like that to- You would have g- a guard at least, or some kind of guards that protect you from some of the falls, right? You would challenge yourself before you actually fall. 

[01:04:53] Katherine: I just thought of guard, remember? 

[01:04:55] Eldar: Oh yeah, guard, yeah. The, what was his name?

[01:04:57] Yeah, yeah, 

[01:04:58] yeah. I, I don't 

[01:04:58] remember, but guard. Yeah. Yeah, you would have some safekeeping. You know? 

[01:05:01] Katherine: Like I feel like if I was 100% very accurate in that, then I probably wouldn't have these, these hiccups. Ups and downs. Like basically this ups, this down, like the ups and downs of- 

[01:05:11] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:05:12] Katherine: we're discussing today.

[01:05:13] So the 

[01:05:13] Eldar: other side 

[01:05:13] Katherine: is also alive and 

[01:05:14] Eldar: well. 

[01:05:14] Katherine: So then like, that's what I'm trying to say is like, yes, but like also no. Sometimes. You know? Yeah. Sometimes I, I, I, I trip. 

[01:05:21] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's like- 

[01:05:22] Katherine: Trip and fall, you 

[01:05:22] Toliy: know? I, I, I think it's really important for you to have evidence for yourself as to like why you believe this.

[01:05:32] Katherine: Are, are you asking me to like provide that? 

[01:05:33] Toliy: No, no, no. I'm saying that like I think it's important for you to have that, and I think if, if you don't have evidence for it- Mm-hmm ... I think it's difficult to sustain it. 

[01:05:42] Katherine: Yes. I, I think it's difficult to describe. Like I know where my mindset was a few years ago.

[01:05:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:49] Katherine: And I know, um, I can see the so- some changes, um, within myself. Um, I can see changes in my life, um, because of some e- changes that I've implemented with like, you know, the help of a professional. 

[01:06:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:04] Katherine: So like when I sit here and like I think about my life a couple years ago, how I was, um, how I reacted to things, I just, I, so like you know, the math adds up and I would say I used to be a person- 

[01:06:18] Toliy: Yeah

[01:06:19] Katherine: that felt like a victim and that wasn't in control of her life and didn't have en- any empowerment, you know? 

[01:06:25] Toliy: It, yeah. Because like for example, right- 

[01:06:27] Katherine: So now I don't feel like that anymore. I'm more empowered Am I super empowered? She, she definitely progressed. Probably not. 

[01:06:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:34] Katherine: But I'm more empowered than I was.

[01:06:36] For sure. You know? Like, there's definitely been a change- Yeah ... and like a, a progression. 

[01:06:39] Eldar: Well, let me, let me give you one... Yeah, let me give you a very good evidence. 

[01:06:42] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:43] Eldar: That at least she's shared with me, right? 

[01:06:45] Toliy: But I think it's important for her to be able to, like, uh- She, 

[01:06:48] Eldar: she's gonna- I have- She, she shared it 

[01:06:49] Katherine: with me

[01:06:49] I shares with, I share with him a lot- No, but I think she has 

[01:06:51] Toliy: to be able to dig this 

[01:06:52] Katherine: up ... in the moment. Oh, she does. But like, in this- Imma 

[01:06:54] Eldar: tell you. Yeah And she's gonna 

[01:06:54] Katherine: say, "Yeah, I agree." 

[01:06:55] Eldar: Yeah, I tell him 

[01:06:55] Katherine: everything. This is, 

[01:06:55] Eldar: this is her words, it's not 

[01:06:56] Katherine: my words. No, but I just wanna pause. Like, in this moment as he's asking me, like, I can't come up with anything.

[01:07:01] Toliy: Yeah. You see, like- 

[01:07:02] Katherine: But- ... 

[01:07:02] Toliy: I think it's important for her to be able to- Oh ... to, to go, to 

[01:07:05] Katherine: find this- In this moment ... 

[01:07:06] Eldar: this- Without me reminding her of 

[01:07:08] Toliy: it ... yeah. 

[01:07:08] Katherine: Yeah. Oh. But in this moment- Yes ... I don't have it, but a lot of times when I do feel these things in the moment- Mm. Yeah ... I share them with him. Yes. This is why he's, he's right now- That's why I can reference it

[01:07:18] going to reference something- Yeah, but it's important for her ... that I don't remember 

[01:07:20] Eldar: right 

[01:07:20] Katherine: now ... to find 

[01:07:21] Eldar: that. I, I agree with Toliy here. Yeah. 

[01:07:22] Toliy: But, 

[01:07:22] Katherine: but he's 

[01:07:22] Toliy: referencing- Because even if you look at, for example, like, I mean, we can give an example which we've all heard many times. 

[01:07:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:27] Toliy: Super religious people.

[01:07:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:29] Toliy: Right? They'll tell you why they believe in God, right? 

[01:07:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:32] Toliy: Mm-hmm. They have their reasons. Yeah. They'll say like, "Hey, I constantly get his gifts," you know, of like- 

[01:07:36] Eldar: Mm, yeah, 

[01:07:36] Toliy: yeah ... whether it's true or not- 

[01:07:37] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:07:38] Toliy: they have an explanation. 

[01:07:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:40] Toliy: Right? They have an explanation that they could tell you, like, "Hey, this is how I know it's real," for example.

[01:07:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:45] Toliy: Right? 

[01:07:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:46] Toliy: Like, they have feelings. Like, they, they have something that they can share to tell you- 

[01:07:49] Eldar: Yes ... 

[01:07:50] Toliy: why they have this unrelenting belief- 

[01:07:52] Eldar: 100% ... 

[01:07:52] Toliy: for it. 

[01:07:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:53] Toliy: Right? 

[01:07:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:54] Toliy: Like, can you convince Josh of that, that it's not real? 

[01:07:56] Eldar: No. No. 

[01:07:58] Toliy: Yeah. He's gonna give you his reasons. 

[01:07:59] Eldar: I mean, with enough time, I think I will.

[01:08:00] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that, like, he can give you right now whether they're real or not. 

[01:08:04] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:08:04] Toliy: He can give you his reasons as to why, right? 

[01:08:06] Eldar: 100%. 

[01:08:06] Toliy: He'll clearly explain 

[01:08:07] Eldar: it. And he stands on it. 

[01:08:08] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:08:08] Eldar: He's confidently standing on 

[01:08:09] Toliy: it. That's why I think that, like, that's what he needs to breakthrough. 

[01:08:11] Eldar: That's what you, that's 

[01:08:11] Toliy: what you need.

[01:08:11] Yeah. Yeah, like, if you can't do, do that- 

[01:08:15] Eldar: You're not about that life yet ... 

[01:08:16] Toliy: you, well, you'll never be able to connect these things, no. 

[01:08:19] Eldar: Ah. You see? This is what we're talking about. We're talking about connecting these things, having the ability- Yeah ... to connect these things as to know as to why you are the way you are, why your day is the way your day is, without needing to, like, not know or, like, like, shooting in the dark every time.

[01:08:36] Mm-hmm, okay. 

[01:08:36] And then you start to know and have confidence in yourself because you've actually walked it, uh, you did it, you felt it- Mm-hmm ... and you have evidence that you can back it up with. 

[01:08:49] Okay. 

[01:08:50] You know? 

[01:08:51] Yeah. 

[01:08:53] Yeah. Well, you want the, you want the example? Sure. The example is an interesting one because I think it definitely shows that she's progressed in, in the things that she, she's talking about, is that any time now she's, um, she's around people that she used to call friends or ve- she used to be very close with- 

[01:09:12] Toliy: Mm-hmm

[01:09:12] Eldar: and they display the type of anxieties that she used to bond over, okay? Yeah. With those people. 

[01:09:18] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:19] Eldar: They used to be close. She gets an ick from it. 

[01:09:21] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:09:22] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. She's like, "Yo," like, "These people- That's 

[01:09:24] Toliy: bad. "

[01:09:24] Eldar: That's bad." 

[01:09:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:25] Eldar: Like, "I can't be around that." Yeah. "I don't believe in that." And she wants to stay away from it.

[01:09:30] Yeah. Right now she doesn't have the ability yet to actually challenge them yet- Yeah ... or to, like, change the trajectory of the conversation maybe or whatever. Yeah. But she at least knows. She's like, "Yo, like, I can't fuck with these people no more because, like, they're just doom and gloom. I used to be- Yeah

[01:09:42] I used to be there. We used to bond. This used to work. I can't do this anymore." Right? Yeah. 

[01:09:47] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:09:48] Eldar: She has that. 

[01:09:49] Katherine: Yeah. I just recently went through that, like, last month with an old friend. 

[01:09:53] Toliy: Mm. 

[01:09:53] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:09:53] Eldar: You know? Where it's like she's progressed. She sees it. 

[01:09:56] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:09:56] Eldar: They're still stuck on those same arguments that she had 10 years ago, that used to work on them- 

[01:10:01] Katherine: Yeah.

[01:10:01] Eldar: Yeah ... through bonding. 

[01:10:03] Katherine: Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, like, what... The, the, the, the interesting part about that is that a lot of my bonds were like that. 

[01:10:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:10] Katherine: If I look at most of my old relationships- Yeah ... I don't have many, but the ones that are still around, they have a common factor, and that's the common factor, you know?

[01:10:19] So the challenge... Uh, I find it challenging because, like, um, you know, reconciling the old Catherine with the new Catherine with old relationships is much harder than just making new relationships, you know? Uh, and also challenging these people, you know? 

[01:10:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:10:36] Katherine: Um, so yeah. Yeah. 'Cause again, I think- 

[01:10:38] Toliy: I'm finding this an interesting case

[01:10:40] yeah, I think a lot of people pro- probably a majority are like, they bond over, like, shared pain. 

[01:10:45] Eldar: Yeah. What do they call it? 

[01:10:46] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:10:47] Eldar: Uh, trauma bonding 

[01:10:48] Katherine: or something like 

[01:10:48] Eldar: that? Trauma bonding. Trauma, trauma bonding. Yeah, they have a word for that even. 

[01:10:51] Katherine: It's... Yeah ... which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's, it's a good w- term.

[01:10:53] Eldar: Yeah. "I hear you feel that. I feel the same way. Oh." Yeah. "

[01:10:56] Speaker 5: Yeah, shit's fucked up." "Yeah, I agree, shit's fucked up." Yeah. "Life's just all fucked up." 

[01:10:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:59] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:11:00] Eldar: That's it. 

[01:11:01] Katherine: Yeah. I have a friend that, uh, was as equally anxious or even more, uh, than I was, like, in my early 20s. Um, I didn't have, like, full awareness of anxiety.

[01:11:11] It just, I thought just that's just how I am, you know? Yeah. Like, I didn't know. I hadn't have any, any awareness of it. Um, and that was, like, our thing. We just bonded over that, you know? So she gets me in a lot of ways, and I get her in a lot of ways, but I have changed. She has changed some- 

[01:11:28] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:11:28] Katherine: but I have probably changed more than her in, in a sense.

[01:11:32] Yeah. You know? Um, and so sometimes, uh, I can see how limiting, how limited this person views the world and views herself- 

[01:11:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:11:43] Katherine: because she's so afraid. She's such a fearful person of the world. 

[01:11:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:46] Katherine: And, like, everything is scary. "Oh, no, I, I would, I would never f- fly there. I would never travel there. Oh, no, I would never do that."

[01:11:52] And it's this, like, constant negativity all the time. Yeah. And it's just like I don't... Like, I, uh, I wouldn't have a good time if I traveled with you, for example, you know? Like, we're not gonna have a good time because we don't have, uh, similar interests anymore. 

[01:12:07] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:07] Katherine: Um, uh, for example. Like, you know. But just in general, conversation becomes difficult with a person that is so negative, that is so fearful, and, uh, just close-minded, you know?

[01:12:18] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:19] Katherine: So, like, I realized then that I was like, "Okay, like, this, this relationship has changed. Like, my, the way I connect with this has changed." 

[01:12:28] Toliy: So? Yeah, I mean- You believe her? On, well, on, on, on this, yeah 

[01:12:33] Katherine: Oh- If, if not, like- ... like, like if I made a list of all the, like the, the changes that I've seen in like my- 

[01:12:37] Toliy: Yeah

[01:12:38] Katherine: day-to-day, I can make the long one. I still can g- like I still know that I, I, I- th- there's a lot of things that I'd like to work on, but like it's a long list. 

[01:12:48] Eldar: Um- 

[01:12:48] Katherine: Right? 

[01:12:48] Eldar: It is a long list, but- 

[01:12:50] Katherine: Because I had so because I was so 

[01:12:51] Eldar: messed up ... 

[01:12:51] Katherine: you had a lot. 

[01:12:52] Eldar: You definitely had a lot. You know? For sure, and that's a long period of time.

[01:12:55] Katherine: Yeah, it's, and it's been years. 

[01:12:55] Eldar: Now you're trying to, you tr- y- now you're trying- Yeah ... what you're trying to do I guess is zoom in a little bit more- 

[01:13:00] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[01:13:00] Eldar: on a daily activities and daily life in order- Right ... to be able to extract that. 

[01:13:03] Katherine: Exactly. 

[01:13:03] Eldar: Not on a, on a grand scheme of things and to where you can just reflect, sit there and reflect like- Yeah

[01:13:08] "Oh, I've gotten to a better place," but more so be able to control your day-to-day moments, and that's what ultimately I think- 

[01:13:14] Katherine: Yeah ... 

[01:13:15] Eldar: these types of conversations lead to, is the challenge is to be able to control every single moment that's either painful or pleasureful. You know what I'm 

[01:13:24] Katherine: saying? 

[01:13:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. You like it?

[01:13:27] Katherine: I don't know if that's a word, but you like to use it and it's very cute. 

[01:13:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:32] Katherine: Yeah. No, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I fully agree. Like I need to learn how to extract it on a daily basis. 

[01:13:39] Eldar: Yeah. Close it in a little bit. 

[01:13:40] Katherine: Learn, learn the sauce. 

[01:13:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:41] Katherine: You know? 

[01:13:42] Eldar: You know, and I think when- Yeah ... you actually do that, then that's when you will safe keep certain things that are very important to you that are on top of your list.

[01:13:49] Let's just say sleep- Yeah ... being one of them. You know what I mean? You'll do that easily in order to then kickstart any other activities that you wanna do throughout the day. Yeah. And o- we'll have only one thing that's more important is, is just to have fun. 

[01:14:04] Katherine: Fun, fun, fun like Ben. 

[01:14:05] Eldar: You know, and where you can then also, um, have as much fun as possible and protect it.

[01:14:11] Toliy: Yeah, 'cause it's also like if you acknowledge that like some of these core things are like without them, the things that you like, you actually don't like- Mm-hmm ... then like you, you'll, you will do everything that it takes to, to protect those things. But you have to be convinced of that, and most people I think are not convinced of it, which is why they obviously don't like, uh- 

[01:14:31] Eldar: Yeah

[01:14:32] Toliy: value it- 

[01:14:32] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:14:33] Toliy: so long. 

[01:14:33] Eldar: Yeah. And that's, I, I agree with that, that, that there has to be a value proposition there where you actually value those things. And when 

[01:14:40] Toliy: you- Yeah, like you could say like, "Hey, Eller, like do you like to climb?" 

[01:14:43] Eldar: Oh, yeah. 

[01:14:43] Toliy: For example, yeah. Okay, do you like to climb when you're sleep-deprived?

[01:14:47] Eldar: No. 

[01:14:47] Toliy: No. Do you already know that like- 

[01:14:49] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... I don't 

[01:14:50] Toliy: know, if Mike's at your doorstep at 6:00 AM, probably not gonna have a g- good climbing session. 

[01:14:53] Eldar: Nope. Correct. 

[01:14:55] Toliy: So okay. So then if that's the case, you obviously know that you have to- 

[01:14:57] Eldar: I like to watch UFC. 

[01:14:59] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:14:59] Eldar: But tomorrow UFC card starts at 4:00 in the morning you told me.

[01:15:02] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:15:02] Eldar: I don't like UFC that much. 

[01:15:04] Toliy: Yeah. You see? 

[01:15:06] Eldar: I'm not waking up at 4:00 in the morning to watch that shit. 

[01:15:09] Yeah. 

[01:15:10] I'll wake up at 9:00, and if I can catch the t- tail end of it, I'll do it. 

[01:15:14] Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:16] You know?

[01:15:20] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:15:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:21] Toliy: So, so it's like- Yeah, sure. You can like different things. You may like to, you know, host your family or like, you know, I don't know, do, do different things. But I'm sure you don't like to do any of those things if you had bad sleep, if you're not feeling good, if you have this or that. So it's like protecting, I think, those things is the, uh, you know- The ultimate

[01:15:40] yeah, the, uh- Mm-hmm ... the, uh, priority. 

[01:15:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:43] Toliy: But to buy into that, again, you have to believe that, like, you have to eventually make the connection that, like, this equals this for sure. 

[01:15:52] Eldar: I agree with you, Toliy. 

[01:15:53] Toliy: You know? 

[01:15:53] Eldar: I agree with 

[01:15:54] Toliy: you. You, you have to do, do that. Otherwise, like- 

[01:15:57] Eldar: You're, you just kinda, yeah ... 

[01:15:58] Toliy: like, you can't do like...

[01:15:59] Like, it's always like, again, it's like, like you can't do little things because the little things often are not as appealing as like, hey, like a deep breathing session here, you know? 

[01:16:08] Eldar: Oh, yeah. 

[01:16:08] Toliy: You know this? 

[01:16:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:09] Toliy: Like, that- Yeah ... that, like, maybe sounds more like official or like- 

[01:16:13] Eldar: Yeah, appealing ... 

[01:16:14] Toliy: appealing.

[01:16:14] Eldar: Like, oh yeah. 

[01:16:15] Toliy: Than like, hey, like, you know, I'm gonna lay down and sleep, for example. Yeah. You know? 

[01:16:18] Eldar: While sipping on a ashwagandha milo tea. You know what I mean? Or somebody plays the dr- uh, the, the sound bowl, you know what I mean? 

[01:16:28] Toliy: With, with, uh, with the, uh- 

[01:16:30] Eldar: With tea leaves falling ... powdered milo scattering everywhere

[01:16:32] tea leaves f- yeah, tea, tea leaves are falling from the fucking ceiling. Don't eat on sound bowl healing. You 

[01:16:36] Toliy: know 

[01:16:36] Katherine: what I'm 

[01:16:36] Toliy: saying? Yeah. 

[01:16:37] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. All right. Well, I think we did a good job. Do we have anything else? No. I, I- 

[01:16:44] Katherine: Should 

[01:16:44] Eldar: we 

[01:16:44] Katherine: go 

[01:16:44] Eldar: to 

[01:16:44] Katherine: final thoughts? I, I agree with you guys, and I, I like all the points that were brought up.

[01:16:48] Like, they all, it all makes sense. 

[01:16:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:50] Katherine: You know? Yeah. I don't think I have anything else to add, I don't think. 

[01:16:54] Eldar: Okay. Mike? 

[01:16:55] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:16:57] Eldar: Toliy? 

[01:16:58] Toliy: Um. 

[01:16:59] Katherine: Penny said her final thoughts. Yeah, I 

[01:17:00] Toliy: don't know. Like, um, yeah, I think this top- topic is very interesting. Mm. But I also think it's very easy to- Overlook ... to overlook it.

[01:17:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:10] Toliy: Yeah. Uh- Yeah. And ev- every time I- I've thought about this for many years, I, for many years, continue to overlook it. Mm. You know? 

[01:17:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:19] Toliy: Um. Mm. 

[01:17:22] Eldar: Yeah, we've been talking about k- um, zooming in on the details. 

[01:17:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:26] Eldar: And, uh, since I've been, you know, kind of going back on the throwbacks of some of our episodes from the beginning, a lot of times you mention this, that like, uh, it's the s- it's the smallest things that can actually provide the biggest, uh, results or biggest, uh, return on your investment.

[01:17:41] Katherine: Oh, I definitely believe that, for sure. Yeah. 

[01:17:43] Eldar: Especially 

[01:17:43] Katherine: when, when you, when you break it down. 

[01:17:44] Eldar: But a lot of times the small details are like they're below us. Yes. We're much, much higher 

[01:17:50] Toliy: than 

[01:17:50] Eldar: that. Yes. We're, we're- That, 

[01:17:50] Toliy: that's 

[01:17:51] Eldar: the big 

[01:17:51] Toliy: thing. 

[01:17:51] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. We're not humble enough to be able to zoom in on the smaller details.

[01:17:55] Mm. 

[01:17:56] Toliy: So- Yeah, because we, we want something- Mm ... that's, like, more appealing and sounds hard. Yeah. Like, yeah, it needs to sound- Well, 

[01:18:02] Katherine: I think it comes from you having to be humbled in the- Yeah ... uh, uh, uh, in the, in just in general- Yeah ... from the position of, like, fin- like, I'm suffering or I'm not feeling good and something has to change, right?

[01:18:14] Yeah. Like, it has to come from, like, a humble, um, perspective 'Cause then otherwise, the little steps, the things that you're talking about, the details don't fall, don't fall into place, right? 

[01:18:28] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I also feel that like, um, like, just like if we start sharing our problems to some people, they're gonna be like, "What are you talking about?

[01:18:38] Like, you can't just sleep?" Like- Yeah ... well- Yeah ... do you have a to... Like, I don't know. Do you have to be at work early in the morning tomorrow? No. All right, so just go to bed and sleep. 

[01:18:46] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, 

[01:18:47] Toliy: they, they would almost like laugh at you, right? 

[01:18:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:49] Toliy: You know? 

[01:18:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:50] Toliy: So I feel like, yeah, and, and like e- even in like the most like chi- like, uh, like, um, cheesy things like in sports, for example, like the, the best people always talk about everything is in the fine details.

[01:19:03] Everything. 

[01:19:04] Eldar: Yeah, really. 

[01:19:05] Toliy: Ev- I mean, yeah. Like the- Mm-hmm ... this we always hear though, like the, the- Yeah ... the best people- Devil's in the detail ... are always like, like they're obsessive over the small- 

[01:19:12] Eldar: Small things ... 

[01:19:13] Toliy: small details. 

[01:19:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:14] Toliy: You know? And they always talk about, "Hey, it's all in the details." 

[01:19:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. "

[01:19:18] Toliy: It's all in this."

[01:19:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:19] Toliy: But people always want this like- 

[01:19:21] Eldar: Bigger, 

[01:19:21] Toliy: grandiose 

[01:19:22] Eldar: picture ... 

[01:19:22] Toliy: big, grandiose... Yeah, yeah, and they think that like the- Yeah ... like the salvation's in there, but it never is. 

[01:19:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:28] Toliy: You know? 

[01:19:29] Eldar: So I'm gonna leave you guys with this. A lot of times we talk about these things, and like Toliy said, a lot of people like, you know, they might not even understand what we're talking about.

[01:19:39] Mm-hmm. You know? And if you got to the end of this podcast and something is not clear, something that you're confused about, something maybe you're pissed about, now you have the option to actually have a conversation after the podcast and directly with us. We have a Telegram channel, DenisRoxPod. So join us to continue this conversation and potentially have one-on-one conversations with, uh, with all the speakers that are here.

[01:20:06] Questions, comments, concerns, we're here for you. Thank you, guys. This was great. 

[01:20:11] Thank you.