WELCOME TO THE ITALIAN AMERICAN MUSEUM (2)

FR LOU CONTINUES TO  INTERVIEW DR SCELZA

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hi, this is Father Lewis Skurdy with the second edition of our introduction to the Italian Museum, Mulber Street, Little Italy. Dr. Skeltzer is my uh guest, my main guest. He is the founder of the museum. We'll talk more about that, as you heard in the first uh segment. But we have a guest here, Christian. Christian, what do you have to say to the audience?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Hello and welcome to the Italian-American Museum.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

We told him he doesn't have a mic, so he has to speak and enunciate loudly. Uh if someone comes to the front door, what should they expect?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Well, certainly they should expect uh a few unique exhibitions that we have on display here. Um very unique that's uh actually local, that was made here locally on Mulberry Street is uh Sicilian American marinettes. They're made here about a hundred years ago, Mulberry Street, and we have them uh for another year round on display upstairs in our mezzanine area.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Thank you. Thank you very much, and thanks for helping out. Of course. You have a great day. So you got a little little piece of of uh of interest. Uh we're gonna be talking about that. You want to start with that? You want to talk talk about the marionette? We could do that up later and go upstairs with the marionettes.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Okay, so we left at the history. Uh give us an overview of some of the exhibits that have been here.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Okay. Well, from the very beginning, we wanted to concentrate.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

From the very beginning, we wanted to concentrate on the Italian-American experience, particularly in New York. So everything from Cesare Pietro Cesare Alberti, who was the first Italian to arrive in New York Harbor in 1634. Oh, really? What's the name again? Pietro Cesare Alberti.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Wow. He's the first Italian.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Well, it wasn't really Italy at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was but he was the first one to come. As a matter of fact, there's still relatives that they have in America. They don't call themselves Alberti, they call some, they they changed the name to Bertie. But there's still relatives there from him. He, unfortunately, was killed by Native Americans. He had jumped ship on the Dutch East India Company, and he had started a plantation or a farm in Brooklyn, and but unfortunately, Native Americans killed him, but the family survived. So they can they continue to go on. But he's the first known person from the boot, so to speak, in it in to come to the city. As a matter of fact, it wasn't me who discovered him, it was John LaCorte. John LaCorte was the founder of the Italian Historical Society of America. And I knew John, and he was a very tenacious man who got a lot of good things done, one of which was the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge named Verrazzano. That was John Lacorte. He went to five governors to get that bill passed in Congress so that we would have that bridge named Verrazzano. And he did a good job. He did a great job. He's a very tenacious guy. But, you know, it in terms, in terms of, you know, the back background, he also was one who believed in having plaques and stones. So he made a monument to Alberti, and he had it given to the city, and they placed it in Battery Park. Now, a number of years ago, not that many, maybe, maybe 10-15 years ago, the city decided in their infinite wisdom that they wanted to unify all the plaques. So they do have a plaque there that was now sponsored by the National Italian American Foundation and the Columbus Foundation, but it's a bronze plaque instead of this granite plaque that they made. Well, they didn't know what to do with the plaque. They didn't know what to do with the bronze the granite one. So they called me up.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Oh, thank god.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

And I took it.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

So I now have it here. But it's important for two reasons. Not only does it indicate Pietro Cesare Alberte and John the Corte, but it talks about the struggle we have in America making sure that all of our ethnic groups are recognized.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Unfortunately, today, a lot of people are forgetting about the ones that came earlier and how much they've contributed to this country. You would not have a New York City today, the skyscrapers, the subway tunnels, the water tunnels without the Italian.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

The Italian builders, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

You wouldn't have it. It wouldn't exist. Not only the contractors who did make money, but like, you know, but the laborers who came here and worked worked so hard to build this city. But stonemasons. Stonemasons, exactly. And as a matter of fact, we just translated a book about the stonemations from 1900. It was written in Sicilian. It was by the stonemasons, was the president of the Stonemason Society that that that you know that that wrote the that wrote the book in Sicilian, which had it.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Oh, so they had to translate it into Italian and then into American.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Exactly. Exactly. So it's so we so those are the kind of things that we do. But you know, so we have we had that on exhibition for a while. We also had something that you'd be interested in, too, the the Madonna de Petronico. The Madonna de Petronico was given to us to be on loan from the Italian government because we raised during the night in 2009 when the earthquake hit in in Abruzzo, we raised $110,000 for them to be able to give to them. So what they did with the money, they took this icon that they had for the town and they had it restored. We have a beautiful video that shows the whole restoration process of the statue, and then they put it on display here.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Can that video be seen by the public? Like the YouTube video.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

We haven't put it on YouTube, but we we can. We've been waiting to do that with to them all at once. But yes, we will be have we will have it on YouTube. It's a w and it's it's a it's not only a story about the art, but it's also a story about the basic connection between Italians and and and their religion. And which is which is which is it's inseparable.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

You know, you cannot say one without the other.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Now some of them, some of them may not be fully practicing Catholics, but they all have the fervor and the love for these for these for these statues and for these and for these for the towns that they come from, which they will indicate, which indicate.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

And their patrons.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

They came over, their patrons came over.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah, whoever they were. You know, this year we were going to be celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Feast of San Gennaro. Oh, really? Right around the corner. Right here. Yeah on Mulberry Street. And this will happen this year, and we will have a display of the not the whole history, but segments of the history of the different different objects and ways in which Italians celebrated this feast day here on Mulberry Street and exhibition in the museum during the month of September.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Okay, we're gonna really push that. Uh give me the dates of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Well, the feast is the actual feast day is September 19th, September 19th, but it's for 11 days. So it's for about eight days before and about two days, two days after. So it's like, you know, it's it's that that's that's that's the feast, that's the feast of San Gennaro.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

So Google that information and come here for that. That's gonna be beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah, well, you can go online and find it. If you just go Feast of San Gennaro 100th anniversary, it'll it'll pop right up.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Excellent. You heard that. All right, excellent. I'm gonna put that in the body.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

So I mean, these are some of the these are some of the types of things, the some of the types of things that we've done. You know, then we recently had an exhibit also here on the Andrea Doria, uh, and which was which was which was on which was on display. Um we had some of the original artifacts that had been retrieved, and we had about seven or eight of the actual survivors come and come to the come to the exhibit.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Really?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Which was quite which was quite remarkable. I mean it after all this all this time. It's 70 years this year that the Andreodoria was was hit by the Stockholm.

unknown 8:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

It wasn't the other way around. It wasn't the Andrea Doria that hit the Stockholm, it was the Stockholm that hit the Andrea Doria.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

The port the Get that straight.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah. Well, I unfortunately it was it was not too long after World War II, and the Italians were still, unfortunately, not always thought of in a good way. So with the two ships were coming across the Atlantic, the Stockholm had left New York and it's going this way, and the Andreodoria is coming this way. Now they saw each other and knew each other. The Andreodoria turned this way, but the Stockholm, instead of turning this way, which was supposed to do by maritime law, turned this way. And that's how the Andreodoria sung. So we told we told the story, we had it had it here. It was a very, very good exhibition. Uh John Moyer, who was a lot of the artifacts, had loaned them to us. We had them on display. He went, he was a diver. Went down, we had the bell from the Andreodoria. You had dishes. Dishes and plates, all that. And menus and all different types of artifacts from the from the uh from the ship. So that was a later immigration. There was a that from that was from the you know after World War II. And it wasn't the largest immigration. The largest was from 1880 to 1919 twenty.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

From so from southern Italy. Um and then we also explained to people why the Italians have lost their language in America, lost the Italian language. You know, a lot of discrimination.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Yeah, that's that's important to realize that we were uh as an Italian I'm Italian American, my parents and grandparents were born there. Um heavy discrimination. Italians need not apply. If you're Italian, don't and and all those names and those nicknames that went with being an Italian. Disgraceful.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

No offense, Father, but I think you'd probably know that Italians were not always allowed to receive the sacraments at the main altar.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

I didn't know. No Italian. Well now you Well, I know they weren't allowed to to practice in Americana churches or like Irish churches, they had to go downstairs, but and they didn't receive the sacraments at the main altar, they had to go downstairs to do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

And it and that that was the reason why most precious blood was built. Most precious blood, which is which is not the blood of San Jennero, it's the it's born of Jesus Christ. You know, it's it was they built that church in the 1880s because they were not allowed to go on the main altar and receive sacraments in in the in the churches around, like Transfiguration was down here, Old St. Patrick's, which of course is a beautiful church. I have like well, actually, my grandparents were married there in 1908. My father was baptized in 1910 there. But that was another, it was this was dominated by the first wave of Catholics coming to America, which were the Irish. That's changed.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

And Mother Cabrini was so instrumental with helping those Italians, and there are so many movies, and one I assisted with the Cabrini, gives a good overview of the challenge.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

That movie is very, very, very realistic. Also tells a story that people don't know. And not only, not only non-Italians, but Italian Americans. You know, I know. But a lot of them, a lot of the uh Italian Americans wanted to keep these hardships quiet and not not let the children know about them.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Oh yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

They would just take it on the chin and just do like other immigrants do too today. But like, you know, but even more so than today, it's a little different. People speak up more, you know, um, and they're not afraid to. You know, in those days, if you spoke up, you didn't get a job, you know, or you were were kicked out of your apartment. You know, so like you know, and they can't you can't do those types of things today, it which is good.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

You know, but you know, so there was a different different climate in the country. Um some places weren't considered white.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Italians Oh oh yeah, no, no, I know.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, in the South, and particularly in the South. I mean, in Mississippi, the Italians went into they had to be going some of them went into black schools. The largest mass lynching that ever took place in America in 1891 was of the Italians. So I don't focus only on the Italians. The negative on the hardships and the that we that we endured, but it's also good to know the whole history so that you know, maybe not only for us, but for other immigrant groups, so they could have empathy, but not only empathy, but understand that this is a an evolving process in America. That you bec as the longer you're here, the more you are, they say Americanized, but the more you become part of the system and that you move up. You know, it's the first first generation has it really hard. Right, right. Really hard. Second a little bit easier. By the time the third generation comes around, they're pretty much established.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

You know, so it's it's that's that's that's usually the that's usually the trend. And unfortunately, not everybody, not everybody knows that. So we do we do a lot to try to tell that story.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

It's such an educational experience here.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Well, the purpose of this museum is for that. You know, um I got tired of protesting. I did a lot of protesting in my years. For for Italian Americans and others. But like, you know, and I I realized that maybe a better way to do it, at least the way I felt I wanted to do it, is to make a statement that people would would enjoy. So when people come to museums, they get educated, but they don't realize they're being educated. So they, you know, they under they get to know more about a culture. You know, if you'd ask Italian Americans, you know, if you'd ask Americans, what do they think some American what do they think about Italian Americans, they're gonna give you the M-word.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

That's what they're gonna give you. But with so much more than that, one tenth of one percent is was involved in has been involved in organized crime. So it's it's such a small number. But that's what they that's what the media and that's what people focus on. So will I do I do I not mention that? No, I do. Yeah, you know, because it's we're dishonest, disingenuous not to. So I we talk about it, but I don't focus only on that. You know, I mean, you know, there's there are a lot of a lot of things that people need to know about, and that's just some of them. But the successes it's it's immense. The amount of success that Italians and the contributions that we've given to this country and to the world is just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

And some of those who are right behind me are the authors of these various of course the Michelangelo's and Da Vinci's, we know, but those local people we we we intend we intend to focus on the local ones as well to tell the whole story.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So this is a place where they can come together, they can share their stories collectively. And as time goes on, we'll make a more and more of an impact in terms of society. That's my attempt anyway.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

A friend of mine who's the editor of the Italian Tribune, you know him well, Buddy for Fortunata, they always feature the accomplishments of Italians in that Italian Tribune. And it's always an education to read about it. And people you never knew. And a lot of Italians, because of social pressures, changed their name so there was no vowels at the end. But they're accomplished and have given a lot to American culture.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Absolutely. One of the best exhibits we had, thanks to you.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

And we'll talk about this at a next episode. Can I just mention the perception? Sure. Just a little taste.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Is the percepio that you've donated to the tank?