The Power We Hold - Season 2 Episode 6: Tiffany Elle Burgess

Thank you for joining me, your host  eco-visual artist and spiritual coach Vanessa Albury, on my journey to becoming a better ally to people of all diversities (bipoc, LGBTQAI2S+, non-normative brained and embodied +) and steward of the environment in podcast form as The Power We Hold! This is part of Coral Projects' work in eco-consciousness healing. In this space we have in-depth conversation together with people of all backgrounds and diverse perspectives about difficult topics full of love, healing and what it is to be a human loving on planet Earth, our only home for now.

Today's guest is someone I have known since the 7th grade. We went to high school together at Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Magnet High School for the Health Sciences and Engineering in Nashville, TN. She's taken up the challenge of our principal Dr. Spence to be Excellence as a writer, actor, producer and a public health worker. She's one of the kindest people you'll ever have the pleasure to know and very creative. She plays in the new The Color Purple film producer by Oprah Winfrey and is just shines in her role.  Enjoy this conversation between two old friends and creatives!

Show Notes:
Tiffany Elle Burgess's website
Tiffany's IMDb
Tiffany's IG
Her books Skin Like Mine, Decisions, Decisions, Adventures of Junior and Baby Brother: Spencer's Gift
Her production company: Tyler Street Films, LLC

 The Power We Hold Podcast website
Vanessa Albury IG, website
Coral Projects IG, website + Make a tax-deductible donation
Get your Custom Sea Coin
Learn more about the doc film Coral Projects in Italy + Hyperallergic
Book an Akashic Records reading with me here or via my website

Music Clear Skys by Wael Elhalaby IG, Soundcloud
Audio Editing by Bryan Klausing Rain Junkies website, LinkedIn

Recorded Jan 16, 2024 in Nashville, TN

Transcript

I can't hear you up, but it might be be because of me. Give me two seconds to get these earbuds on. Oh, look. - Hi. - How are you?

 - Wow. (laughing) It's so cool. Long time no see. - Oh my gosh, wow, it's been ages,

 huh? - Yeah, it might have even been, have we seen each other since 1997? Did you go to the reunion I So the last one I missed the one like the 10 year I went to the one in like 2018 or something like that.

 That's the one I went to. Okay, so then you for two seconds. Yeah. Yeah, well then that counts It's so good to see you And,

 wow, you've done a lot since then. - So have you. (laughing) - Well, that's true. - But you're not my way.

 - I won't deny it. - Yes, oh my gosh. Can we talk about that? Dr. Spence, right? Wow. Wow. - Yeah. - So for everyone who's joined us,

 I talk about my high school experience kind of regularly, just FYI, because it was so beautiful and inspiring and I had no idea the extent of how beautiful it was.

 And so Tiffany and I went to, this is Tiffany Elle Burgess, by the way. (laughing) We went to high school together, seven through 12, at Martin Luther King Junior Magnet High School for the Health Sciences and Engineering,

 right? - Yep. - And Dr. Spence was our principal who started the school. And one of her mottos for us was excellence. I think that was the motto.

 Do you remember? - Yes, I think it was like something like the standard of... excellence or excellence is our motto, something like that. Like, it's like excellence. Like, don't forget.

 Yeah, exactly. And I just remember so many speeches that she gave us in the auditoriums and in those broken wooden chairs, telling us about how we how we rise together,

 how we come together, how excellence of it is expected of each of us, no matter what our difference is, what our backgrounds. And she handpicked everybody in that school from the teachers to the students.

 And then just was like such a powerful motivator. So I'm so glad you said excellence because, - Yeah. - Yeah, that's totally the thing. Yeah,

 have you seen her? Have you been in touch with her at all? all? I have not I mean I'm trying to think I feel like my mother saw her at some thing Because my home church isn't too far from the church.

 She's the 10 I'm not sure if she still attends that church, but I think my mother saw it at some event But I have not seen her. I'm trying to think when the last time I've seen her.

 It's been years. Yeah, it's been years. Yeah Same yeah Yeah. I saw a picture of her at the library. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

 But her, like you said, her legacy and her teachings continue, you know, throughout all of us who were able to matriculate it and,

 okay, under her before she retired. And yeah, she just had a certain standard that she held a us to starting in seventh grade,

 which is a testament to how a lot of us have moved throughout our lives from college and beyond. I definitely give her her credit.

 Totally agree with these rules. And yesterday was MLK day. So happy birthday, Dr. King. Right, exactly. Wow.

 Wow. So first off, congratulations on the success of the color purple. And your beautiful scene at the end,

 your face on the screen is just like, oh, thank you. It's a very powerful one of the most powerful moments of the film.

 Yeah. Yeah, it's like Celie’s final, I feel like moment that she,

 you know, she's gotten all of these wonderful things that have been able to transpire after she turned, always talk about this turning her trauma into triumph.

 But like the key, like that pivotal moment, she missed her sister. And she missed her children. So it was like that final moment, that final win,

 that final, you know, triumph for Sealy. And it's just like you said, in the 1985 version, it was such a pivotal moment.

 And it's the same in this 2023 version, which is the big screen version of Broadway. Broadway musical. I always have to tell people it's not a remake of 1985,

 but yeah, it's the big screen version of the Broadway musical. Yeah, because it's actually what I understand is truer to the book. I didn't read the book,

 but I've seen the original movie and the current film, and yeah, and they're different story lines really. So, So,

 wow. I feel like I have so many questions swimming in my mind. That has to do with, like, what was the experience like for you in coming into this role?

 - It was an amazing, it has really been an amazing journey. I got the audition in, February of 2022 for my agent.

 I'm represented by the People Star Agency here in Atlanta. And, you know, it's The Color Purple, which is a classic. And it's one of my, like, favorite films,

 you know, already. It's just so iconic. So, yeah, I was excited and I was thinking through, you know, what I needed to bring to the audition for this scene.

 scene. And then I turned in my audition, three weeks went by and then my agent Tom called and was like, congratulations. You won the role of Olivia in the color purple.

 And it was just kind of, it took off from there and I was just ecstatic, like, you know. - Just one audition on a tape. - Yeah, just my, because the audition process,

 especially coming out of 2020. It's a lot of self -taping There's a lot of you may have like a zoom call back or you may you know to me But like a person wasn't taking place right and so For this I had a quick turnaround.

 I had like a day It was very quick and I was just like oh, oh It was like a weekend when I saw the Because your breakdown will give you like the film and the producers and all that good stuff.

 And casting was amazing. And, you know, they, I think, I know they are up for, they have an award nomination trying to think of what award show for like best casting.

 But I know the process was very intense. I'm sure for them, what I was told, I think they have to run everybody by the producers. But yeah, three weeks later got the call and then,

 then um I think it was a couple weeks later got like in contact with they put me in contact with production and I had to talk about um the music the final number which is called the color purple and um fittings and what studio I need to get to and my COVID testing and it just took off from there.

 Wow. Yeah it was but I had a great time on set everyone was amazing. The crew was amazing. Oprah was amazing. - Oh my God.

 - Yeah, I had a really good time on set. It was a great experience. - What is it like to be in her presence? - Wait. Everybody asked that. - I know they do.

 - That was me too. That was me too. - Right, until you're in it and you're like, "Oh, it's like this." She just, you know, she was so down to earth. earth and accessible on set and like giving,

 you know what I mean? Like she sat down beside me in the casting tent, we were doing a reshoot in March of 2023 and she was just chatting and after we shot the scene because you know,

 you have different takes and they take what they're going to take and then they make, you know, the masterpiece that they make when you're shooting films or television, etc.

 And I remember I finished shooting with Fantasia and I walked off because I was still emotional so I was still crying. And she tapped me on the shoulder and she was just like,

 "Good job !" And she gave me a hug and it was surreal, it was surreal, the entire experience. So yeah, she to me has just... a very, I felt like down the earth spirit.

 - That's so great to hear. I imagine, so I coach people, I'm a spiritual coach as well as an artist and I help people with boundaries.

 And whenever I'm giving someone an idea of what strong boundaries are, I'm like, picture. Oprah walks in the room, everyone knows Oprah's in the room.

 Everyone wants to talk to Oprah, but they don't rush her. They don't all just pack around her. She has strong boundaries. She's approachable in the way that she allows people to approach her.

 And I imagine in the film set that you were on, and she actually curated that environment. So I imagine that, that, um, yeah, that, that she would feel extra able to engage with everyone in a really warm,

 warm way without that. I guess like a neediness coming from, you know, others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And,

 and a lot of folks on set were just, I mean, having fun and having fun and having fun and having fun and having fun and having fun and having fun and having fun and the process. And she joined in on that. And I feel like that's made for,

 you know, an enjoyable experience. - I bet. - Yeah. - There's a cast member who I am just in total all, I mean, money, I'm in total all of,

 but Taraji Henson. - Mm -hmm. - Oh my God. Her Shug, everybody. - Yeah. - Yeah. Yeah. Holy smokes. Powerful,

 right? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. She was in that scene with you as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was there. Yeah. The Easter dinner scene throughout.

 Sug, Taraji P. Henson, like you said, played sugar and she's there with Danielle Brooks who plays Sofia. and-- - Oh my God, Danielle Brooks, God. - Another, right,

 so many powerful performances. - I was introduced to her via Orange is the New Black. - Yes. - And she's just been, yes, she's just been blowing my mind since,

 you know. - I watched that show too, so I totally feel you on that. I was like, "Oh, Orange is the New Black," which I'm sure she's started. - She's heard it. - Yeah, she's heard it.

 - I'm like, "It's tasty." It was such a good show and you know, her, I don't know if she would consider it her springboard, but for a lot of us, that's how we were introduced to her.

 Her acting ability and then Corey Hawkins and Colman Domingo and like everyone. And then my Terrence J. Smith plays my brother and Aba Arthur plays my sister Lonnie,

 both are amazing. And so it's just like, then you have the dancers and some of the background folks who helped fill out that table and it was just, you know,

 in that big tree. - That tree was amazing. I wanted to ask you about that tree. So I went to the College of Charleston in Charleston, South Carolina. - Okay, okay.

 - We have a lot of those angel oaks down there too, but I know you guys were filming in Georgia, right? - Mm -hmm. Were you on the, was it on the coast? - Yep, Savannah. - Yeah. - Yeah,

 it was a, the surrounding area of Savannah. So I flew from Atlanta to Savannah and then our set drivers drove us out to that tree.

 And I remember when we went out there for a rehearsal and I was just like, this tree is amazing. And then like our director is just phenomenal. and Blitz was like isn't it great?

 Like you know it took forever to find it but isn't it perfect? And I just feel like it it was just the perfect setting for that that final scene for Celie and it just evoked a lot of emotion just as you know just in background you know as our background as our setting um it evoked a lot of emotion.

 It's setting as character like like, you know, so beautiful. And the way the sun came through in the scene that you guys had in the film, ugh. So you were saying you had a reshoot on that.

 - Mm -hmm. - Okay, so was that two visits to the tree or one visit? - Two visits, actually, I'm trying to think, do we have three visits to the tree? But that last visit was March of 2020.

 2023. So like my first visit to the tree was March, 2022. Yeah, and it's just - - Oh, wow, a year later. - And so then I was like,

 'cause we also did some work at Black Hall Studios here in Atlanta. There are a lot of like film studios here in Atlanta. There's a lot of things here. - And see the Georgia Peach at the bottom of a lot.

 lot of that made in Georgia logo and so we went there for you know rehearsals and just a lot of prep took place there and then the rest in Savannah so it was a long process a lot goes into is anybody can imagine any big budget film think for one of others this was a hundred million and so a lot goes into it.

 But I just think what was made was just very powerful and cinematically beautiful. So I'm very proud of it. Yeah,

 it's stunning. It's stunning. Yeah. Going back to the 1985 version, are you a 1978 or 1979 baby?

 79. - Okay, so I don't remember it coming out in theaters, but I remember it coming on TV. Do you remember that?

 - I watched it on TV. I'm trying to remember when I was, 'cause I was young. - Yeah, me too. - I first watched it. But, you know, my mother's a retired English teacher. She was head of the English department at Maplewood High School for years.

 - My mom ended up being an English teacher at MLK when she applied. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So, you know, my mom loves classics. And so I say that to say,

 like she didn't shelter us from a lot of things that she considered classic. Like she exposed me to, I know why the Cage Burst sings, Maya Angelou and a lot of these books that were like band that she didn't believe in like book banding and all of that.

 So. So I say I like to say, I remember being able to watch it at a young age, but I watched it several times throughout my life and was able to like understand it better as I got older.

 And then different themes started to resonate with me as I got older. - So I saw Oprah on the red carpet talking to the kids from recess therapy, which is one of my favorite YouTube channels where it basically,

 four or five, six year old kids like share their opinions about things. And it's pretty amazing. Okay, recess therapy. And Oprah was interviewed on the red carpet for I must have been y 'all.

 Oh, it must have been the, the Golden Globes. Golden Globes. Yeah. And the kids were like, seven and eight. And she, she out. asked them if they had seen it and they were like,

 no, and she's like, yeah, you're probably too young, like wait till you're 13 and then, then you have my permission to watch this powerful film and you need to watch it, like it will be good, but wait till you're a little older. Yeah,

 I think, I think it came on, I was trying to look up like 1980s, when did the color purple come on in Nashville, Tennessee TV. Yeah, and I couldn't find it,

 but it must have been like 87 or 88. So we were, if we saw it on TV, and I, we were under 10 probably when we saw it. Yeah. And I remember,

 I remember my mom on the love seat in the den area. And it's, she's like, telling me about it. She's like, cut the color purple's coming on. It's a very important film. This is very important.

 I didn't see the whole thing through with her. But I remember her stressing like this is, this is important work that, you know, and I remember being like feeling the attention feeling the the emotional power of the film.

 Even if I didn't fully grasp it like kids are really intelligent right like they understand the underlying themes. Like what's going on in essence,

 even if they don't know. you know, two plus two is four or whatever. Right. Yeah, wow. So now that we got the color purple out of the way.

 Just kidding. It's very, it's really good. It's really powerful. And it's, you know, what brought us back together to this conversation for the Power We Hold podcast. I want to talk about your books,

 your beautiful books. Yeah, so you've got, was it, how many books do you have? Three. Three books, okay. Three children's books. Yeah.

 What, are you writing more children's books? Are you in that process or what? So I'm always like, my mind is always working and things are always,

 I'm always coming up with ideas, but I haven't, you know, thought through. what my next children's book will be. I kind of wanted a follow up to skin like mine.

 I had already named it like the Britney Chronicles, and I kind of wanted to take it, take us through her like junior high type of experience, but I haven't really put in the paper yet.

 Um, so "Skin Like Mine" was the first book in 2016 on colorism. And then, 2019 was the "Ventures of Junior Baby Brother," Spencer's special gift,

 and that's for younger children, um, especially those kids that are dealing with being a first time big brother or big sister. And then, uh, 2023 was "Decisions, Decisions," which is really for older,

 like, more fifth grade, because I feel like I'm a lot of children are asked what they want to be when they grow up, especially children of color, but you're not really made to feel like you can be multiple things.

 Then I feel like children are asked to choose what it wants to be, a teacher or an astronaut, but it's rare that we tell children,

 "Okay, well, let's say one wants to be... a teacher and an artist and a painter." I feel like growing up for me was rare that children were told,

 "Okay, well, you can do both." Now, it's going to take hard work. It's going to take time management. But I'm doing both. I have multiple hats that I wear, and that was just the catalyst behind that book.

 So now, just thinking through... like what other story, because I like for all of them to have a theme and a lesson. So I'm just thinking about what other lessons do I want to share or did I learn growing up that I think children nowadays can benefit from.

 Yeah, that's beautiful. Skin like mine was your first one, right? Yeah. When you wrote it, did you,

 I don't know about the publishing background. Did you try to, is it, is it self published or published with a house? It was, it was published with the independent publisher here in Atlanta.

 Okay. He used to be a Turner executive. And she owned with her brother, who is like a Emmy winning or Emmy nominated. poet. They owned at the time,

 Good Stuff Publishing. And I took it to them and went through the process with them. - Was that the only place that you took it to? - Well, I'm trying to think now that you say that,

 I feel like I sent out query letters, but it's so hard without like a publishing agent, a writing agent. That's something that I've always been interested in getting.

 I'm like, oh, I need an agent. agent for my writing I have an agent for acting um but I have not been able to do that thus far so I'm pretty sure I did send it out and it's been so long but um talking with Tiffany Good who owned the stuff publishing and she just helped me think through it and she took on the process and you know got it published for me and then the second two I published myself >> And

 that was some collaboration. And then it sounds like an editorship kind of element. >> Yeah, yeah, publishing element. >> Yeah, okay,

 not quite editing, okay. >> Well, yeah, so it was funny because her brother did some editing, but my mom has edited my books. And she's edited national books when I was younger.

 So she's always like my first editor, my first mother. pass goes to her, but Alice King, this is so MLK, with MLK with us, who has edited New York Times bestseller books.

 She edited the third book for me. - Oh, she's ghostwritten some very, very big sellers, too. - Yeah, she is ghostwritten. - The powerhouse. - She is the powerhouse, and I feel like Alice is one of those under the radar powerhouses.

 - Yes. - Eventually she's going to be thrown into the forefront. - I think so. No more ghost riding. - Right. What she belongs, what you'll probably like, cringe or cower. - Spotlight,

 like oh, spotlight, but hey, sometimes you got to get in that spotlight and own it. - It's time. - Right, it's time. - No more hiding, no more. - Right, exactly. - Exactly. - I feel like that's a theme for me of this year.

 It's just get out there. Just do it, do it, do it, do it. it. So self publishing, the last two books,

 and then you place them on the different outlets where people can find them, like I know they're on Amazon, for example. Do you find,

 like, have you, are you in touch with the readership of your books? Like, have you you have you been able to experience the impact of these beautiful books that you've written But I have especially with skin like mine Skin like mine ended up being featured as this magazine Yeah,

 so that helped to propel that book So I did a lot of like book signings and readings with children Here in Atlanta and Nashville virtually it's at a local bookstore here called The Listening Tree.

 And then it's also in the Barnes & Noble in Buckhead. So it's, you know, it's, I've definitely been able to witness its impact.

 I've had people tell me about the second two book, the, you know, The Adventures of Junior Baby Brothers. and Decisions, Decisions, so the feedback has been great. I think when you're self -publishing and you don't have like a powerhouse behind you,

 it can be difficult to really like get the feedback you want to get from your audience, but I will say thus far what I have heard in the children that I've been able to interact with when I have done,

 you know, book signings and live readings and just been, it's been great, especially with them, like you said, children are intelligent,

 they're smart, like understanding the topic area from colorism to with the Avengers of Junior Baby brother, like, oh,

 I'm a big brother and things like that. And what may happen at times with children when they're having to share their parents' attention. And then, a friend of mine was in DC and she sent me a picture with her children or son reading Decisions, Decisions.

 And she was like, ooh, so appropriate, you know, like. So I would like to be able to get like more. Now as you say that really makes me think about it.

 I would love to get more in person interaction and feedback from children, especially on the last two books. (upbeat music) but so far what I have gotten has been positive. - I'm not surprised.

 I'm wondering, 'cause I'm just imagining some of the difficult experiences that I went through as a child. And if I had written a book about those experience,

 and then I watched little kids learning through my mess, the impact that might have on me.

 And I'm curious, like, what's that impact on you? And how does it color your experience of yourself and the people around you growing up? I mean,

 honestly, and I'll go back to again, skin like mine, because it was so personal about colorism. And then I have a darker skin, African -American woman. I have a lighter skin,

 African -American woman for a mother and my brothers now are all my father's skin tone, you know dark skin and I was in my household I was told that I was beautiful and dark skin was beautiful just like light skin and like all the shades are beautiful and my mom would always talk about a person's inside and happiness comes from within and all of that but it was like when I got outside of my home in school and

 other areas, that's where my self -esteem suffered a bit when it came to colorism. So to be able to talk about it with children now and hear them say,

 oh, I dealt with that, right? Somebody making fun of me, Ms. Tiffany, and feeling like they at least felt empowered by the book. book, of course, warms my heart,

 makes me smile. I feel like that accomplishes the goal that I set out, the number one goal that I set out for myself with this book for it to be inspirational.

 I think we've all dealt with the bullying, I certainly did. And watching in the book or reading rather, there also did an animated short film based on this. book.

 So for some children they watched it. Oh cool. Oh you didn't see that. Yeah, that's been super cool that came out 2023 or 2022.

 My years are running together but it did pretty well on the circuit skin like my animated short film. Is there like a link that we can put in the show notes for people to see it?

 Yeah okay good okay good. I'll send it to you. Yeah. And so, at least we should have at least a trailer out there on things still on Mimeo,

 but to watch their reaction when they see Brittany stand up for herself, or when they share that, you know, they read the book and how she stood up for herself and they've been through similar situations and there's some of their key takeaways like,

 you know, everybody has something to offer. so everyone's beautiful in their own way, you know, that's what I wanted them to take away from the book, yeah. - I just think about inner child,

 inner child healing too here. Like I imagine there's a full circle that gets kind of completed within where, you know,

 a little Tiffany. little Tiffany gets that observation. Like, adult Tiffany gets to see it, but also the little Tiffany inside of you gets to see children saying that,

 you know, it was helpful to them and that they find all skin tones beautiful and that, yeah, it's to be celebrated. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

 So I wanted to ask you like maybe a little more on the personal note in high school. So we had a very diverse community.

 Yeah. But there were still, there was still a little bit of clickishness between, yeah, the African -American kids, the white kids, and the, I guess, the Asian kids.

 were kind of with the white kids a lot. Yeah, I was trying to think like, 'cause my best friends were Persian and Indian. Yeah,

 what, and like, you know, don't worry about, like, I'm just curious, what was your experience of race through,

 like, that? that culture that we had where everyone was friendly, but it was still like separate, separate paths in a way.

 Mm hmm. Yeah. No, no, you're exactly right. I love my experience at MLK, but I also, I did experience some of my like,

 you know, growing pains and hardships when it comes to. to, um, you know, the social aspect, we're all super intelligent kids, you know, we're, we're,

 you know, handpicked because our T cap scores and, you know, it will see the best and the brightest. And we come from such diverse backgrounds, whether it is economic, you know, your social economic status or your race,

 and we're thrown into this school and it's a melting pot in this competitive melting pot. Yeah, and I felt like the African -American kids were a minority,

 you know, they're with there weren't as many of us and some of us Talked more with one another. One of my good friends was still a good friend to this day.

 We live here in Atlanta together. It's Purnima Patel Yeah, I met Purnima 7th grade and I just you know adore her. And-- - She's so sweet. She's the best, yeah.

 - And it's like, I wouldn't have met, I don't think I would have met Purnima if I didn't go to MLK, right? - Oh yeah. - I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood, grew up in a little class,

 went to a wonderful predominantly black church, but my elementary school was good as hell. and it was more like MLK. And then went to Brick Church,

 which was predominantly black, and then MLK. And it felt like I had a little bit of that culture shock. And we did, we definitely had those clicks. And then you had some black kids that,

 you know, maybe at the time were more comfortable and felt more accepted, than hanging around, you know, white kids or kids of other nationalities. outside of acting American because they didn't typically,

 you know, grow up in a black neighborhood, etc. So it's like all of us, I think, we're figuring out our social lives and our social, our social circles,

 and finding our voices and finding out, like I play basketball, I was going to talk to you about that too. Yeah. So like that was on the team.

 together. And so yeah, I'm going to divert like I'm meeting people outside of my black girl clique. And I'm playing ball with Heather and Hilary and CeCe and Keisha and you and Kim Shin at one point play.

 Yeah. Robin Stinnett and you know, social diverse group of young ladies, right? So I feel like that. helped me with socially getting to know people outside of my demographic,

 but I will credit MLK and they don't, so I will say this, my niece at three nieces, my oldest niece went to MLK, my little niece went to MLK,

 and now my youngest niece is 16 and she's a junior at MLK. - Oh my gosh, one of them probably had my mom as an English teacher. - Oh, I have to ask, yes. yeah. So, Tresley graduated, my oldest niece graduated,

 she's 31, she graduated like 2011 or 12. - Yeah, my mom would have been teaching English in that era. - That's a fast car. - And then my nephew,

 four nephews, but one of the four went to MLK. So like, we're definitely an MLK family, and I was telling my niece, the 16 -year -old, and her wife,

 at New Year's Eve brunch, or New Year's Eve brunch in Nashville that we had a heritage day where we would celebrate everyone's cultures.

 Like you would dress up, you would bring different dishes. And I thought that was simply brilliant. Like in hindsight, that was so important to us learning about one another and finding connections.

 connection where there's a cultural connection through food or you're you know a tire because my mom would run out and find me something that was African -inspired for Heritage Day. They don't do it now,

 but my niece was like, "Oh, that would that would be awesome." Why wouldn't they carry that on? I don't know. She was like, "We don't have Heritage Day." And I was like, "You don't have Heritage Day? We don't have Heritage Day anymore,

 okay?" And I do, so I say all that to say, I feel like the were some things in place to kind of help us celebrate one another and our cultural backgrounds and our differences,

 but it was definitely an environment where most of the time I felt like a minority. Yeah. Yeah.

 Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. you touched on something, I think key, not only for like kids that are seven through 12 years old,

 but for me and obviously for you as well because you said it, you're learning how to socialize but also how to relate to yourself and relate to yourself in the context of others.

 It's like zero through five, it's just you and you. you and you're awesome and life is like mostly good, probably. And five to 15,

 20 is like, Oh, how do I still be myself? What is myself in the context of other people and what are other people? And like, you know, all those things get worked out.

Mrs. Cox, our basketball coach and amazing math teacher. I'm not teacher. I'm like,

 I told the eighth grade is when I started playing. By that time we had coach. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. Switched out. I forgot about that. Okay. So Ms. coach was Ms. Cox was seventh grade. And so I had her as a math.

 Yeah. Yeah. She was a great math teacher. She was. Math was one of my subjects, like one of my better subjects. And I definitely credit it to teachers. like her. And yeah,

 I quit basketball in at the end of eighth grade. Like I started the first week of ninth grade. And then the commitment was so intense that I was like,

 I can't handle it. Handle this. It's like, whoa, it's like it's a lifestyle, really. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, and hats off to you for like going all the way through it.

 But I did notice and I'm curious about your experience, like, I was rather quiet as a, as a kid, and smart,

 just like the rest of the class. And so whenever I would speak, I would know exactly what I wanted to say, I would say it, and then I would shut up again. And, and later in life, some classmates told me that they thought I was a bit mean.

 Really? Yeah, thank you for that reaction. No, I didn't have that. They're brilliant. I appreciate it.

 Well, I mean, but I understand why someone would think that because when someone's quiet, you project. You know, know? But basketball was really key for me to learn about my power,

 to learn like how to use power in my body. Going from like, I would barely made the team in seventh grade, like I was like third or fourth to last pick,

 you know? Other kids were cut, there were cuts. - I'm like, there were cuts, you had to make it. - I definitely warmed up. that bench. Nice and cozy.

 And Miss Cox would put us in when the stakes were so, were gone. Like either we were winning by a crazy amount or we were down by a crazy amount. She would put us bench warmers in.

 And one of the last games of the season against Iselle Harding, who were very good. - Ezell Harding, yeah. - They were, they were way up, you know,

 they're way up. We weren't catching up and there was like two minutes left and we were like 20 points down, you know, it was just not happening. So I got to go in and I, it was the first time because there was no pressure for us to win.

 I stole the ball and I got it down to our side of the court and I, I did an assist because I have the guts to try to lay it up and not land. land it,

 but it was like the last seconds of the game and I was like, oh, like that's what that is. Like that's what Keisha and CeCe are doing all the time and Heather and Hillary. - You're like,

 oh, I can do it too. - Yeah, like, oh. - It's a sense of accomplishment. - Yeah, it's like tapping into something that I didn't know was there. - Right. - What did you learn from being in basketball?

 - I love basketball. sport. I have fun with like you. I still think I, it's funny, my mom will tell people even now at 44 years old, I still can be shy.

 I can still, at times, you know, kind of worry about saying the right thing or et cetera.

 And I'm very tight, I am type A. - Thank you. so I like for things to be done a certain way. I like to present myself a certain way. And I, you know, so that also contributes to some of my,

 I feel like shyness at times, but like you, I, I think I came across to some people as mean because I was shy. And it's because I didn't know what to say. I didn't,

 and then I would come home and my mother was like, anybody this, I would be like, Oh, I tried to see if someone so would talk to me or maybe like me or like I was struggling socially when I got to love it.

 Oh man the struggle was with her. She was like anybody. Little Tiffany. It was hard seventh grade seventh and eighth grade but seventh especially um because my cousin and I grew up as sisters or mothers um sisters and she and I go to school together the entire time.

 We dressed alike all those things and she went to meds. - And I would say, "Okay." And then she went to human frogs. And I said, "You're okay." So I had to go-- - Human frogs.

 - Yeah, right. (laughing) And she, I was a little codependent on her and going to school without Amber was very hard at first because I was doing exactly what you said.

 How do I, how do I, Tiffany? How do I make friends? How do I come out my shelf? My answer to your question, very long -winded answer was that MLK helped, I'm sorry, basketball helped that.

 I love basketball. I love sports. I have three older brothers and it helped me to have some confidence. I still was struggle at first when I was,

 you know, out there, like you said initially, but it, it boosted my confidence. my self -esteem. It gave me a sense of like, belonging. I made new friends,

 you know, my teammates become, they become your friends. You see each other, like you said, a lot. You're practicing, you're doing summer camps. You're, it's a huge commitment.

 But I felt like basketball helped me get out of my shell. more and um helped me to get to know other young ladies at MLK who didn't particularly look like me but we're all like we have like this sisterhood and bond and we're all there for a common goal which is to play ball and win games yeah definitely helped me you know making the team was a huge confidence booster because I actually tried out for I

 tried out for cheerleading in seventh grade because I thought people will like me if I'm a cheerleader you could wear the cute little skirt and my mom was just like you did ballet and modeling at these you were younger you're 12 at the time but you've never you love sports like she kind of looking like you want to play you want to cheer and I was like well everybody like likes to cheerleaders.

 And then I didn't make the squad. Coach Bass was so sweet about it when he talked to you. Redirection. Yeah, like, it's something like he knew. He was so good.

 Yeah, he was amazing. Like, you know, Tiffany, what do you really want to do? Because I got a feeling that, you know, you go out for basketball, you're going to make the team. But eighth grade is when I went out,

 and I play eight through 12. 12, see? - Wow. Did you go to his funeral? - I did not, I did not. I saw everything online and we used to correspond on Facebook and in Messenger and things and he knew he had my nieces and nephews in class and he was talking about my oldest niece looking just like me,

 so when he saw that he was like, like, Burgess, Burgess. So I told you, I was like, that was one of our favorite teachers.

 He was the reason why Meredith and I took home third place in the middle Tennessee science fair, because he was adamant that our project deserved to go. Yes. From MLK.

 And our teacher, our science teachers, wow. Like, because I went, I, my my team project was Tennessee State winner in 95.

 I did a team project with Doris McClaren. Yeah. And we were runners up to go to the International Science Fair in the team category, which is like all the,

 all the different ones competing against each other. Yeah. And like every year, the science fair was like exciting, right? It was. How good can I be? this? What can I do?

 Yeah. Yeah. Where can I innovate? Right. Right. No, it was. And most people in high schools are like, yeah, you would just have two plants and you say nice things to one and mean things to the other and see what happens.

 Like, I mean, that's good science, too. But ours, or the solar system. Yeah. Yeah. But our, no, since like they start in seventh grade. and I told Merida like we're gonna win Competition I was like game on so by senior year We're over at Vanderbilt and we would be over there in that lab after school She was the wrestling cheerleading captain And then I had ball and then I mean my mom would take us over there and

 like her mom would come over there and pick us up and etc and We did we got honorable mention at MLK and coach Bass called my mom 'cause he had the teacher's directory. And I just remember him saying,

 "It's going to the middle of Tennessee." - Oh. - Like it's going. And I was screaming like, "Yes !" And so we go and we took home third in team project.

 - That's awesome. - Yeah, I have all those years, seventh, eighth, ninth, eight, to the level like I have. have to win something in this science fair. And Mama would tell you, I just would-- every year,

 I was like, what can we do? And so senior year was a project on gene therapy. Yes. And how we can aid Parkinson's disease. Wow. And it was such a great project with-- I don't know where she is now,

 but her name is Nanette Hale. And she was our supervisor and sponsor at Vanderbilt. Wow. - Wow. - And she helped us with that project. - Amazing, wow.

 Yeah, so in '95, so I had physics and biology at the same time, 'cause I was like, what more, can I take more AP classes,

 please? - Right. - I think I had nine APs by the end of, I know. - Oh my God. (laughing) - I got to college in '95. was a sophomore. Oh,

 cool, I get better housing. But Mr. Brooks, the physics teacher, I remember him saying, like, if anybody needs an idea for a science fair project,

 like, here's one for you. And so I went up after class and like, yeah, I, you know, I want to do something cool. I want to, I want to do something interesting. What, and he's like, well, you know how ergonomics are starting to be a thing for like chairs were ergonomic,

 it's like keyboards are going to start going ergonomic ergonomics is a thing now. And nobody's working on an ergonomic mouse. And I was like, Oh, okay, I got this.

 And then Miss Lee. Yep. So good. She are chemistry or IPS? What was she? She did physical science. science? - She did bio and she might have done chemistry too,

 actually. - Okay. I had Mr. Woodbury for chemistry. - Oh, Mr. Woodbury. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I didn't have him. - Oh, he was all of them, like you're saying,

 but Mr. Woodbury. - Carol. - I have Woodbury. - He's so sweet. - He was and he told me to apply for the NIH. Some are minority institutes. Institute program. And I got in,

 and that's how I, at Vanderbilt, and that's how I made that connection with the NET to continue like, you know, and keep my foot in the door. And that was in 1995,

 the NIH Summer Minority Institute apprenticeship or something like that. And then, but he was the one that was telling me about it. Like, he should apply for this. And I was like,

 okay. And he was the one. really good chemistry teacher who, I feel like, sought out opportunities outside of MLK for his students. Yep.

 Yeah, I feel like that's a running theme, because Sue Fenton was that way for us in the French department. For French? Yeah. Yeah.

 Wow. This isn't just all about MLK. [INTERPOSING VOICES] MLK podcast. We can take it all on forever. I want to ask you about, because I know you have a job that's,

 is it nine to five kind of thing? And then you're also doing your creative work. And what does, what does like a day look like for you? Because you're, you're, you're juggling a lot of projects.

 Mm -hmm. How do we some days are easier than others? I mean, I'm at my I'm a public health professional consultant By day and so that's pretty busy Um,

 and then imagine. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but I I mean you still have like your lowest like you have your lunchtime When you need to go out and get some fresh air and for me, that's when my mind is turning wheels are turning and Then I'll jot down something that I know I want to work on in the evenings or the weekends.

 I'm definitely a insomniac sometimes. I'll be up writing and the other night I had to finish this script and I was writing it at like one o 'clock in the morning and I text my mom and it's like I finished and you know she's just fine because she knew I was like okay go to sleep now like do some rest but she knew when I was home in Nashville.

 Nashville for the holidays, I was working on it. I've been contracted to work on this script. So. - Amazing. - You know, you do it at night and then I'm a coffee house junkie. - Mm -hmm. - I am too,

 but I don't drink coffee anymore. So I'm like, just, yeah, caffeine was my spiritual awakening journey, like caffeine just like, just too much. But I will sit in a coffee house and have a nice chai.

 Yeah, some tea all the way. Yeah. Yeah. So then I mean, you you get the atmosphere that I'm talking about because I'm like, I just keep talking.

 The atmosphere for me and had everything on do not disturb. But the atmosphere for me is just calming yet energized. You hear all these people talking and buzzing around.

 and um but nobody's in your business. I was like yeah. Where am I going? Okay so I for me, sorry my computer is losing craziness,

 um I'll sit in the coffee house and brainstorm and write and type and write and type and sip and people watch and it's when I um was working on skin like mine that was my go -to and on the the weekend.

 I get up on a Saturday morning, do what I need to do, go to Starbucks, hang out, right. You know, after church, go to Starbucks, hang out, right. There's a couple of other like cool coffee shops downtown here in Atlanta.

 One is called Urban Grind. I just, I like the whole atmosphere. It's super cute and just, yeah, you know, and you have all these different folks. who talk about diversities that diverse folks sitting in there and some are listening to music.

 Some just want to read books. Some are like me, because I remember talking one time this young lady and she was a creative as well. And I beat off of that. So I do I feel like,

 you know, that's one of my outlets that help that has helped me balance wearing all these different hats at times. It can be uh, overwhelming or, you know,

 I'm a little anxious, but I know that I have a passion for so many things. So until I move fully into creative, then I have to.

 That's what was my next question. Yeah. What is our, what is our end game? Like what, what's your goal that you're working towards right now? Like in six months to a year, everything goes Tiffany Burgess's way?

 What is the world look like for you? Yeah. Okay. I am engaged. I am.

 Yeah, yeah, I'm engaged. Like six months a year. I'm engaged. Okay. I'm looking for a new home that's gonna have like my office in my audition room, but also a sunroom where I could sit outside and enjoy water and fresh air and write and do all these creative.

 I am working on a beautiful film project like I'm on set. If I want to pick up any additional public health work from a consulting standpoint,

 I can, but I don't have to. I've done it for 20 years. I've moved fully into my creative being in space and I, you know,

 my partners and I who own touch. Tyler Street films, we're trying to pitch this show and our show gets sold. And now I'm like, getting ready for that. And I, I mean, just all the, all of that just makes me like,

 get so excited. I'm excited for you. I'm like, yes, yes. You're a partner in a production house. Yes. Yes. And where are you guys with your,

 your projects? Yeah, what do you work here? So we, um, my partners went to Hampton University with me and, um, we own Tyler street films. And one,

 um, went to film school in his base in New York. That's Lawrence Law Wofford. And then, and he's like kind of our like director, but he's also a writer, but he's just all things film,

 super dope human being. And then Jack, man, the third is just. our visual genius. He also went Hampton with me. He's a photographer by trade. But we, I'll send you the link for it.

 He shot a film called "Flip" that did extremely well that I think you may enjoy. - That was good to see it. - Touches on race relations. And it was all Jack's brain shout.

 I wrote the screenplay for it and law directed. But we started to put together other projects. So excuse me, we had a follow -up film that's done pretty well called "Catharsis." And then we brought in another partner.

 His name is Stanley Alter. He is an actor, went to Hampton as well. And he and I did skin like Miami short film. And then the guys and I went back into the lab.

 for this show that we want to that we pitched in that we were able to sign a agreement around. It's just we just got to get this sold. But the guys and I,

 we're like, doubting, we want to get it sold this year. We think it's a great show. We have folks on board who have read the concept and love it.

 So I just I would love to see that happen this year. Yes, I would too. Will you act in it? Are you going to be in it too? I told the guys, I was like, I just, I got to ease the raid this thing,

 right? I love you. Yes. Oh my god. I literally, so I'm working on a film too. And I made a short list of the celebrity persona that I would love to join me on the project as a person.

 And it's a documentary film that I'm working on. And she's like, she's my top woman, like my top female. She's amazing. Oh my god. I've been a fan since "Opera Black Girl," her web series.

 I used to sit in like, I literally would be with my kindle, watching it. I could be like downstairs in my house or like in bed, just cracking up. And I remember once I was at home in Nashville,

 and I'm in one of the guestbearers with my mother's walking pal. and she was like, "What is this, particularly you, so?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm a black girl. It is hilarious." You know, so it's just like, she's just all things like writing and producing and acting,

 and I just, I would love to be able to step into that and write, be a part of a writer's room for the show that the guys in our pitching, but also have a role in it.

 And then, you know, we're also trying to make sure that we maintain some producer credit. Yes. And it's just a long process. Yeah, I know,

 right? I'm like, I thought this was going to be done this year. No, I got another like two years ago. What is it about? Oh, okay,

 sure. My audience, I talk about it. So it's called, oh, it's a document. about my project called Coral Project. So I'm an eco -artist,

 an eco -friendly visual artist, and I'm making artworks to heal the human -ocean relationship. So it's both like a spiritual healing with intention,

 making objects out of eco -friendly materials from love and giving them to the ocean. And then for filters. species because science always science. So filter species can grow on the sculptures,

 like corals, oysters and mussels. Yeah, so I partner with marine sanctuaries and marine scientists who, you know, do the science side.

 I'm science adjacent. So the documentary is about our first permanent site, which is is slated for southern Italy,

 uh, where they have overfished the muscles and people have like, they just go in and they hack away the whole rock of the ocean and take not only the muscles,

 but also the corral G and, you know, the other organisms growing there. So they kill like 20 years of growth with one meal kind of thing. Really? Yeah.

 Um, and the muscles, or, you know, the bones. and corals, they clean the water. And like, because we're so good at polluting the water, we really need, we really need extra needs.

 - In the air, yeah. - We need these species to do their work. So, the documentary follows that first sighting, and I'm in the process of writing the screenplay for it now.

 - Oh. - I have an executive... producer, Marco Robson, who did Legacy of Lies, which was a number two on Netflix a few weeks ago. Yeah,

 it's it's an exciting, it's an exciting project. And I'm going I'm aiming for an all underrepresented cast and crew,

 which is always a challenge because actually for almost every every every role either as crew or cast like a white man is put forward first.

 I'm like I know he's awesome but I know somebody else is awesome too. Right and if this is going to take me two years I'm going to find the right awesome person. Right that's super hot that is dope I love it I know that you like had exhibits and like all these art shows and things in New York and then and I Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't like I'm representing it the way I want

 to but you're kind of like on this eat pray love journey So like you I was watching when you were getting rid of your plants and I was like not getting rid of them But finding them new home Yeah,

 I've been trying to be have more of a read the thumb and feel my home more with plants than I buy myself flowers every two weeks, the next years.

 But I saw that you were like, you're planting, and I was like, Oh, I need those. Yeah,

 you know, I think Elizabeth Gilbert has off to her for really paving the path of like creating a vision. vision of what it looks like to have a spiritual awakening and bet on yourself.

 If it's eat, it's eat a lot less and a lot healthier. Pray, yeah, lots of prayer and love, yeah, absolutely. So much self -love.

 That's really my new religion. And because love is infinite, it's a forever journey. Whereas a bubble bath might be part of self -love,

 that's not where it stops. That's hopefully just where you get your toe wet. Because it's so much deeper. The books that you're writing are about love.

 And this is a deeper level. And being able to share this... what you're up to with my community, that's for me,

 self -love. I think we take for granted that the love that we're able to give is based on the love that we have for ourselves.

 I think a lot of women in particular are really good at putting other people first, especially moms. moms, lovey moms, but please take care of yourself.

 But it's like, you know, you can only give to the extent that you've given to yourself first, and especially if you want to maintain a capacity to give.

 So yeah, so the pandemic really like next leveled my, as you said, eat for a love journey. journey. - No, I'd love it. You hit the nail on the head with self -love and I think a lot of us as women struggle with that.

 We're always looking for it externally. And I think that's just, I know that's been one of my issues and that's part of my journey. Because even in our relationship or in marriage,

 you have to love yourself first before you can properly love someone else. And then, then you have to have so much love for yourself that you set those boundaries and it's like I think about my girls,

 my nieces and I'm like I love my nephews we talk to them about you know things as well but and I think about the girls I think about what um type of example I want to be and continue to be as I figure out myself and my life in my mid 40s and boundaries and self love are like two major things that I have to focus on.

 My women's prayer group is tonight. It's every Tuesday night and one word that we have to come up with one word for our theme for 2024. One word that we're going to do in mind was fearless because I do feel like I operate a lot of fear.

 What I've learned about fear, can I share? with you what I've learned about fear? Okay. Like I don't like to push stuff on people. They don't want to hear is that it's your doorway.

 It's your threshold to the good stuff. It's like we move away from our fears. It's like, oh, I'm afraid of that. Like, don't do it. But actually, everywhere there's fear,

 that's the place to go deeper. That's the place to, like, hug a shark. It's kind of like my metaphor for it. Like I used to have nightmares about sharks and I work with the ocean.

 So I really have to like clear that up. So whenever I see a shark in my dreams, I'm like giving it a hug now because it's like, I mean, I love sharks,

 you know, mentally, emotionally. Like, but I have a subconscious. Thank you, Jaws. Thank you. 1980s child. Thank you for that trauma.

 But it's like, you have to go into that place deeper to the part of you that's so scared and sit with that feeling of fear. And then do it anyway,

 it's like not deny that part of yourself, right? Because so many people are like, trying to shut that part down, or just not look at it.

 it. - Right. - Also. - Right, right. - So how are you approaching fearless? I love that word for you. - I think I'm still figuring it out. And I'm trying to,

 from a faith perspective, trust that God will work it out for me and has my best interest as he's already shown me. It's like my women's group they talk about.

 go to your faith file. And your faith file basically shows you what he's already done, what he's already brought you through, what he's already provided. And I,

 because I feel like I can be controlling the unknown. Like if I stop doing this, what is what am I going to do? You know, it's always like, I don't hear that in the type A.

 - I've got to stop operating in fear if it's not serving me and it's not helping me grow and take me to the next level, then I have to be able to step out on faith and like move on or like explore other opportunities or like,

 you know, write that next script and get it out there and try to pitch it. you know, this next book, like those type of things. - Like take one less consultant gig so that you can do one more day on the production work and the script work.

 Like it's like, well, that's my bread and butter, but like this is where my heart is. When you were talking, remind me of that phrase when one door shuts.

 God opens a window. I don't remember the exact something like that. But it's like, you have to shut the door first. Right. Before the window is going to open. You cannot,

 I'm the one that's trying to go right. Are you sure you're going to open the window? Yeah. Now on the head, and that is me. Like,

 he's looking at me sometimes like, girl, if you don't, just close that door or that window, I can open up this next door or this next window, but I cannot do it until you trust me enough to fully shut the door.

 And that's what I'm working on. I feel that for you. It's, I like, we're in such a beautiful moment in the arts, in the visual arts and in the film industry and the movie industry like,

 I was just on a call yesterday with um Scott Pickers who produced and directed a film in 12 days on a $40 ,000 budget,

 a feature film that Lionsgate picked up. Yeah, yeah, like we're in a magical moment where it's just the right the right shifts,

 the right moment. It's all energetic and like as soon as you as soon as you put, you know, your money on the table, yeah, God 10, 10 x 100 x is it,

 like immediately, that's, that's what I'm seeing happening. Like, it's a beautiful moment to bet on yourself. You're right.

 Yeah, that's further confirmation. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah. When I thought about the word last week. week, I was like, I think I'm tired of operating in fear.

 I'll be 45 years old or willing in August. And I feel like I have always had faith, but also a significant amount of fear in my life,

 fear, failure, fear, waiting, you know, waiting for the other shoe to drop fear. This relationship ends, I'll be, you know, die alone. Like I always go to the most extreme. Die alone. Well, you what?

 You are gonna die alone. We all die alone. (laughing) - Exactly. And I wish we would stop like, you know, painting those pictures of like what that looks like because we came in here alone,

 right? We come in on both unless you're a twin, but you're still coming out one at a time. - Yep, you're still, you got your minute. She got her minute. - Exactly. So you're exactly right. Like when I leave. here I'm gonna leave alone,

 you know, or be in that box in the ground, you know Just me so I'm trying to make the best of my time here. Like people say What are you doing during that - so my 827 79 - whatever my end date is - the - is what matters.

 Yes, still I've done some things with the - I'm very proud of, but I'm also still figuring out the rest of my dash. And I want it to be impactful. Well,

 you're off to a beautiful start. I hope you milk your, your beautiful position on the big screen with to the best of your ability,

 please take it all away. I mean, cut that script in front of open. I don't know how you can do it, but do it. I mean,

 really, like, you know, it's like just the right the right person just mentioning to them like, I mean, I would love to hang out with Easter Ray. I would love to get this in front of her. And they're like,

 oh, I know her, you know, it's like it's like that. Or she was just telling me that, you know, she she dropped a project. She could pick something up right now. I don't know. Oh, okay. You know,

 thank you. Because that's how it works. And if you let God show you the way, it's the most magical astounding below your mind,

 you could have never thought of way, you know, that it comes together. That's what I've been living. Yeah, these last six months, like, I don't have a home anymore, anywhere. I'm in Nashville currently. dog sitting for a lady,

 the dog is staring at me. - But you have family still in Nashville, right? Your sister? - Yeah, both of my sisters, my dad, and because my mom passed last year,

 well, now two last years ago, 2022. - It was 2022? Okay, I think it was, I thought it was 2023. Yeah, I know I expressed my condolences. Yeah, and you did it again.

 Thank you. It was the most beautiful experience I could have had with her. I have to say, I feel very blessed with, because it coincided perfectly with my journey and my healing work.

 And because whenever you change, inevitably, all your relationships change, and she was able to come with me in this really beautiful way. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I saw her,

 I flew down seven times, uh, in the last year she, she was alive and I was with her two days before she died. Um, and like, I got to hold her in her,

 in her bed and, um, tell her that like she didn't owe anyone anything. She gets to go whenever she needs to go. Don't hang on for anybody here. We're going to all be fine.

 And two days later, she was gone. But now that she's gone, she's with me on a whole other level, which, you know, I heard people say stuff like that before,

 but like, it didn't really, I'm like, how do you figure like, how does that work? But like, I see her in my dreams, very lucid dreams where I hug her and I feel her hugging me.

 I feel it in my body. Yeah. And we talk not like long conversations, but you know, I'll say something like I missed you. And she's like, I'm right here with you. Of course you are.

 So yeah, we had a great first few years together and a great last few years together. And that's to me is everything.

 - Yeah, yeah. - I think everyone can have a beautiful experience of someone else's passing. And I actually, I try to help people create that for themselves because I want everyone to have that experience of death.

 You know, death doesn't have to be a dirty word. It doesn't have to be some kind of end that's, that's painful. I mean, yeah, there's yeah, I cry, you know, yeah, like lots of tears are coming.

 But also like so many beautiful elements that like so many other people I see don't have that part of the experience. Yeah, that for everybody. Yeah,

 if I were to write a children's book, it would be about that. Yeah, I feel like now I'm like, hey, you should look at what gaps we have.

 I think children need to have, I'm sure there's something out there that explains it the way you're explaining it so that it does come with some peace and calmness.

 I think that would be, you might have just come up with something there. I can't sleep. landed on something because I'm like it's about how hard it can be for us to find the peace and the experience that you're describing.

 Good, yeah. And I know when I lost my grandparents in 2015, they passed away 11 months ago. They've been married 71 and a half years in West Tennessee and my grandfather died January 2nd.

 and my grandmother died November 29th. And I remember speaking, they asked me to speak at her funeral and it was cathartic for me to like write out my speech because I was crying,

 laughing, you know, and I think to your point, um, we don't, and I know I still have a lot of work to do when it comes to death, but what you provided for your mother is what I watched.

 my mother provide to my grandmother. And I just, I didn't want her to go. But when my mother hugged her and said, we're going to be okay, you can go. Like she said that to her.

 And when we left, my grandmother was still alive. But before I even got back to Atlanta the same day, she was gone. - Listen, that is a powerful, like this is something telling people that it's okay,

 that they don't owe you anything, that they don't owe anybody. any, it's important. People hold on for other people. And we don't know it because when you're that close to death, most of the time you're not talking anymore.

 Most of the time you're not, or you're like, if you are, you're somewhere else, you know, you're on a different plane. But that's not the first person that I've, well, it's the first person.

 I also told a dog, my family dog, because I saw her suffering, you know. know, you're not meant to suffer here. You know, so if you got to go,

 go, everybody's gonna be okay. Like, if, yeah, if everyone got to hear that, we would have I think a lot fewer people on life support,

 like a lot fewer people, you know, in that, because they hold on for us, you know? Yeah. Yeah. you might have hit on something.

 Something to explore. I know you have a lot that you're already doing. - What's one more thing when you have a dozen? - You're still, you say you're still just kind of being like a nomad right now or yeah,

 oh, I love it. - Yeah, so I started July 3rd. It wasn't a choice at first. It was like a force, like the wind shut the door. Like I didn't shut it.

 The wind did it. But the window that opened was this beautiful last six months going on seven months of traveling the world. Paris for eight,

 for eight weeks, Dubai, South Africa, Cape Town, Johannesburg, Kruger National Park, Kenya, with orphans, they're beautiful,

 beautiful experience. experience, Egypt. And at the end of December, when I was in Kenya, I was like, I'm sick. And I hadn't ever experienced that like,

 Oh, I want to go home. So that's why I'm here. And now I'm snowed in. I spent some time in the snow,

 which, you know, is, I'm sure healing within itself. Anytime I'm home, I feel a certain amount of peace and less stress just being home in my mother's house.

 There's something about a mom's house, right? I'm not necessarily invited to my mother's house, my stepfather, I'm not his favorite person. I know this is one of the relationships I'm working on.

 And there's nothing like being in the space that your mom made, right? Yeah, it's beautiful, even if somebody there doesn't like you,

 it's still really nice. Yeah, like it's still your home. My parents are divorced and my father went back to South Carolina, so I've had to adjust there. But it's,

 like you said, like when I'm home. in my mother's house in Nashville it's just it's home it's there's a piece even if I bring a bunch of noise in my head with me um it's just like um at some point I'm gonna just be able to let it go have that piece that I need and then it re I feel like re -energizes me when I come back to Atlanta to whatever some of the noises and now you know I'll talk to my dad and I've

 gone to South Carolina because he's a very small town because he's from South Carolina. He just moved back. What town is he in? Blythewood. Okay, I don't know that one. Yeah. It's not just 30 minutes from Columbia.

 Oh, okay. Okay. But he's from Georgetown. So like I'll talk to him on the phone and things like that, but I don't go like stay. Yeah.

 Yeah. If I live with him, I stay, you know, in Nashville. And my mom's home, so. Yeah. Yeah, so now this is my first experience of Nashville staying not in my mom's home.

 But it's a beautiful transformation of my relationship with the city. I still feel all the love from the city. I talk-- I talk to it. You know, I talked to it. I'm sorry.

 That's how I feel. I roll now. I talked to New York. I talked to Cape Town. And it's fun. But I love that my nieces and nephews are here.

 And everywhere I go, I bring them something back. So I've brought them back these amazing dresses and hoodies from Kenya, from Masai. People made them.

 Yeah, they're really beautiful. beautiful. - They're beautiful. - Yeah, I love like, I love inundating them with, you know, magic from around the world. And my nephew,

 yes, it's a blessing for me to be able to get into them. I see them, yeah, I see them doing beautiful things when they grow up and I'm excited for it. So it's like a whole new life here in Nashville for me.

 Well, it's like a whole new life here in Nashville okay. So before we say I do a couple of like speed questions, if that's cool. Okay. Yeah. Give me one second.

 Yeah. Because of my batteries now, I think. Give me two seconds. Okay. I'm gonna go off and I'll be right back. Okay. - Okay,

 I clearly should have had that plugged in. - No, well, we've gone, I do long enough. conversations. Like that's just the form. So, all right,

 just three quickies. I have like a list of speed questions I like to pick a few for each person I talk to. So what is the best advice you've ever been given?

 - Happiness come from within. My mother has always poured that into me. I'm still learning it. but she's right, can't get it from external factors, people,

 other people who has to come from within. Beautiful. What's the worst advice you've ever been given? I would say,

 well, it's more of this idea of always choosing the safe route. I think life is not meant for us not to take risk and chances.

 That's this whole fearless thing now. It's fearless journey that I'm going on, but I feel like if I had not have taken some risks and some chances, I wouldn't have experienced some of the lovely things I've been able to experience in the creative parts.

 Yeah, I'm like, take risk. Maybe that's your next book title Fearless. Yeah, maybe know, it may be. I'm gonna figure it out. - Given each other books. You write this one,

Beautiful. And then what's something that you've taken away from your 44 years on this planet that you think maybe other people haven't necessarily,

 maybe that isn't for you. maybe necessarily obvious, that's like really supported you up to now, that you think other people could really benefit from. - Good one.

 I'm learning that there, or I've learned, no, I'm still learning it, but there are, there is some power in acknowledging your worth.

 because I feel like if you alluded this earlier if you're like this then you can't own it address it in whatever it is handle it manipulate it get it out of your way or live with it but I once I've learned to acknowledge some of my weaknesses because the strength is are easy,

 and be okay with that, I feel like I've then tapped into some additional power that I would not have been able to if I continued to be like,

 "No, I don't see it. I don't hear it now." You become a bigger, fuller person when you take those parts back. Yeah, because you're taking the power back.

 back. Or you're becoming a survivor, an overcomer. It's all these different terms that can be used, but before you can do that, you have to address.

 And for me, it's like dealing with the anxiety and things like that that I used to run from or be ashamed of. And then now it's like,

 oh, this is what it is. I know. how to handle it. And then I'm going to use it. I'm going to turn it into a strength. I'm going to not be ashamed of it, which is,

 to me, gives you more power. Yeah. Wow. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on The Power We Hold. You're such a generous,

 lovely soul. And I'm so, I'm so glad to have this conversation with you. you. Thank you for having me. This was great. It was much needed. So I appreciate the conversation.

 Thank you. I'm going to end the recording part now.