Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, we methodically teach verse by verse, even phrase by phrase.
We have completed many books of the Bible and offer free lesson plans for teachers. If you want to browse our entire library by book or topic, see our website www.ReasoningThroughTheBible.com.
We primarily do expository teaching but also include a good bit of theology and apologetics. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity must address both the ancient truths and the questions of the people today. Join Glenn and Steve every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
Unraveling the Threads of Original Sin and Federal Headship of Adam || Exodus 20:5-11 || Session 35
Can a loving God truly punish the children for their father's sins? How does this idea connect with original sin and our relationship with the Holy Spirit? Join us as we grapple with these questions and more, diving deep into the phrase in Exodus 20:5, "visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and fourth generations of those who hate me."
We also explore the complicated concept of 'Federal Headship of Adam' and its implications on humanity's inherited sin. Investigate how the Pelagianism doctrine, which claims that we are all born innocent and don't require the Holy Spirit's guidance, has been historically condemned. Learn about the significance of the Holy Spirit in our lives and how our beliefs impact our relationship with God.
Lastly, discover the importance of honoring God's name and the long-standing tradition of Sabbath keeping. Uncover the consequences of using the Lord's name in vain and the central role of observing the Sabbath as a way to express reverence for our Creator. Tune in to this thought-provoking episode as we continue to reason through the Bible and unveil more of God's teachings in the Ten Commandments.
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May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve
What are we held to today? Are we legally required Like, okay, this is in again the top 10 list and we already said this isn't the 10 suggestions And so we're not going to sit here and say, oh, it's okay to lie, steal and cheat and murder people. So the Sabbath keepers out there that are our friends are going to say how are you going to say you can, you're still wrong to lie, cheat and bear false witness, covered your neighbor's wife and adultery, but now you're, you're fudging on the Sabbath. Hi and welcome. My name is Glenn and this is Steve, and we are reasoning through the Bible. We do, verse by verse, bible study explaining the Word of God, and right now we're in the 10 commandments, which is Exodus, chapter 20. So if you have your Bibles, you might want to turn there, and one of the things we're doing, we're right in the middle of, is going through these 10 commandments. But as we do so, as we do in all of our, all of our studies, we explain the text, but we also explain some of the theological issues that have arisen over the centuries And we also try to answer some of the questions that arise amongst different people. So we that's what we're in the middle of doing, and last time we had gone through a couple of the commandments out of the first 10, and at least the top, the top 10. We could always call it the top 10.
Speaker 1:But we're down to Exodus, chapter 20, starting in verse five, which is part of the second commandment here, and so let me just point this out. It's talking about idols and it says in verse five this is again God talking to Moses. It says in verse four you shall not make for yourself an idol. And then in verse five you shall not worship them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God. And then here's the part I'm going to talk about today visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, right? So that part of there about visiting the iniquity and iniquity just means sin and guilt around sin. And so that's what iniquity means. It means the guilt based on sin. And so what he says there again is I visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.
Speaker 1:And so that phrase there, as you might imagine, has generated more than a little bit of consternation in a couple of areas, and one question that arises is well, how could that be? How could it be at all fair if the guilt or the responsibility of a father could be held or given to children, three and four generations down the line? How could that ever be fair? And then the other is what difference does it make in regards to our salvation? because those of us that are Christians make a it's an essential doctrine of the idea that we are indeed guilty for our sin, but yet we have to be made right before God through Jesus Christ, and so that act of being made right, starting out in a position of being separated from God because of sin, then being made right again through Jesus Christ, all comes into play around this visiting the iniquity of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. Quite a little bit of nugget of teaching here, steve, but any thoughts on this before we get too neck deep in it.
Speaker 2:The one thing is there that he says it's for those who hate me. Yes, that's the first thing, and then we'll get into a little bit more. But the next verse, verse six, says but showing loving kindness to the thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments, even those third or fourth generations, if they love God, then there is not an iniquity. visitation to him.
Speaker 1:Right. So let's look at that again, because that's an excellent point and we can start there, because it's it's a little simpler. The end of verse five of those who hate me, contrasting that with what's in verse six, but showing loving kindness to those who love me and keep my commandments. Here's a. Here's a question Steve, we'll get this out of the way first which is what does it mean to hate God And what does it mean to love God? Well, he gives us a clue there, in verse six the ones that love him do what.
Speaker 2:They obey his commandments.
Speaker 1:Obey his commandments, right And so if you love God, you're going to keep his commandments. Likewise, if you hate him, you're going to not keep his commandments. So there are, there are many people walking on top side of the earth that you say oh, i don't hate God, i just don't think he's relevant, or I don't think he exists. Think of a teenager. Oh, mom and dad, i don't hate you, i'm just not going to follow your rules and I'm not going to clean my room and I'm not going to treat you with respect.
Speaker 1:I'm going to ignore you when you talk to me.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And well, wait a minute. After all I've done for you, you hate me, and so that's what God's saying here. He's clearly contrasting, saying if you're not keeping his commandments in love, then if you're saying God is not important enough for my time, that's hatred, and so that's what he's saying. Is that that this, whatever this iniquity that he's visiting, it's for people that aren't loving him and aren't keeping his command?
Speaker 2:And this Hebrew word here for hate is an antonym to the Hebrew word for love. So that's what you pointed out by not loving your hating Right.
Speaker 1:So now the third and fourth generation part, and it actually becomes very serious And we'll get into some of the historical doctrines here and try to move through this quickly so we don't lose too much of the audience. But when it says there visit the iniquity to the third and fourth generation, there is a doctrine that the name of the doctrine that the theologians have come up with is called the federal headship of Adam, the federal headship of Adam, and the explanation for it goes something like this My ancestors came to North America way before I was born. When they came, i came When they came to North America, i came to North America even though I wasn't born for many generations down the line. And so that's the idea. Is that when Adam sinned, we all sinned, and that's what he's talking about. Is that when Adam sins, the human race sinned. And the reason why it gets important is this Because the other way the theologians will explain it is that we are born with a sin nature. You're born with a sin nature, that is, a proclivity or a bent towards sin, and if that were not the case, there was actually a man in history named Pelagius who believed and taught that, and Pelagius was what we would now call Pelagianism. And Pelagius taught that that Adam sin only fell on himself and not any of his children, and they by, by consequence. If they did not, if Adam's descendants did not inherit a sin nature or a proclivity towards sin, that means they are born in the exact same state of innocence that Adam was in the garden. This is what Pelagius taught is that all human beings are born in these because they don't inherit sin. They're not again.
Speaker 1:The Pelagius would deny this, this doctrine here in Exodus 20 that the, the iniquities, visited to the third and fourth generation. And so Pelagius would then say we're all born completely innocent, blank slate. We have complete, total human freedom to either obey God or disobey God, and so we're at least, at least neutral, completely, totally neutral. And because we are born neutral, we don't need the Holy Spirit to draw us to God. And because of that Pelagius would say it's that coming to God is a complete and total free will decision to man. It's free will gone to seed, because it ends up denying the role of the Holy Spirit and ends up denying the need of the Holy Spirit to draw us to God Or convict us of sin. And because of that Pelagius was condemned in not one, not two, but three ecumenical councils in the early centuries of the church, was roundly condemned.
Speaker 1:Because if you deny this doctrine, that that the in again, the iniquity is visited on the foot from the fathers to the son of the third and fourth generation, therefore we inherit a sin nature, therefore we're born in sin. If you deny that, then you're forced into Pelagianism, which says that that we're born blank slate, complete innocence We can do. All we have to do is decide not to sin and we can live perfectly sinless lives And just like Adam could have. And because of that then we don't really need the Holy Spirit And then that ultimately denies the need for God in salvation. And that's why Pelagianism was condemned And that's why, right here in Exodus, when it says again, the iniquity of the fathers to the children on the third and fourth generations, of those who hate me showing the loving kindness to thousands, it's, it really does mean that when Adam sinned, then the human race is is inherited a guilt for it. It's called the federal headship of Adam And all those other heresies fall from it.
Speaker 1:If you deny that, the verse where the Pelagians try to come up against us is in Ezekiel in its chapter 18. And it says 18, verse 20, which says this quote the person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity. The righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself. Close quote.
Speaker 1:And so the Pelagian would say well, see, says right there in Ezekiel that you don't punish the son for the guilt of the father. Well, what Ezekiel is talking about is God and Ezekiel. What he's saying is that, well, if, if the if the father robs a bank, you don't go through the kid in jail. You know, if the father steals something, then the crime you can't go punish his descendants. That's what he's talking about. He's not talking about this idea of. Again, if you end up denying what Exodus 20 clearly teaches, which is the iniquity is visited on Generations down the line, if you deny that, then you're ultimately Fall into belagianism, which says that the Holy Spirit is not needed to draw us to God because we're born innocent. And that's a heresy.
Speaker 2:So let me ask a question in regards to because part of that you were. You're saying that the Pelagian would say well, if we just make a decision not to sin, then we can do that. But scripture is very clear That even if somebody were to say, oh, i'm not going to sin, it's very clear that we cannot keep these Commandments and that so, therefore, we're missing the mark with God correct and falling short of his glory. So the decision That somebody would make in order to not sin Doesn't really mean anything. Correct, correct?
Speaker 1:in the end, right, right, right, right and again these, these teachings, not just my opinion, it's not just our opinion. New Testament support for this first Corinthians 1522 quote. For in Adam all die, even so, in Christ all shall be made alive, close quote so in Adam all die and in Christ will all be made righteous. And so it says that right there in first Corinthians 15. So if, if we were to deny that in Adam we have the entire human race, is inherited guilt, then we have no explanation for when Christ dies, then he could die for the whole human race as well. That's the counterpart. If we're like Pelagius saying that, oh, i'm guilty because I decided to sin and not because of anything I inherited from Adam, that's Pelagianism, that's the heresy. Therefore I'm only responsible for my sin. I'm born a blank slate, i don't need the Holy Spirit to draw me and therefore Jesus Can't pay for the whole human race. That's the consequences. Because, again, first Corinthians 15, for an Adam all die, even so it means that he's drawn. The same parallel in Christ also be made alive. You can't deny one without denying both of those.
Speaker 1:Another one in Hebrews, chapter 7, and so and so to speak, through Abraham, even Levi paid tithes, for He was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. Close quote That's in Hebrews 7, verses 9 and 10, and what it's saying there was, if you remember the story, abraham met this priest called Melchizedek and paid him a tithe. Well, levi Wasn't even a born yet. His Levi's father wasn't even born yet Levi was the grandson, great grandson, and so In that verse in Hebrews said that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek when Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek. And so the concepts clearly taught in scripture. And so it may be kind of long way around the block because of the Ten Commandments here, but when we get to again visiting Exodus 20, verse 5, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation, it gets into a very major problem if you deny that.
Speaker 2:Now that, all being said, the sin debt that we have, which Jesus pays for, which is all scriptural as well is the sin debt that we have created ourselves. It is our own sin debt. It's not something that's inherited. from a standpoint of guilt, we have committed the sins ourselves and built up this debt that needs to be paid for in some form or fashion, correct?
Speaker 1:Well, here's what I would say, and I would disagree with that slightly, in the sense that the part where I think you would agree is that nobody can stand before God and say you're only blaming me because of Adam. No, no, you sin, and if nothing else, if you get tangled up in the theology. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3, 23,. Every last human has sinned, and so all of us have guilt because of. We made a conscious choice to sin, and so that's clearly established. But it's also both true that we have to pay for Adam's sin as well Again, that's what this is saying is that the iniquity, the guilt falls.
Speaker 1:When Adam sinned, we all died. That's what it said in 1 Corinthians 15, 22,. When Adam sinned, we all died, and therefore we all need Christ. So it's both true that we inherit the human race inherited Adam's guilt, but it's also true that we all chose to sin, and we have no grounds before God to say it's not my fault. So that's again a long way around the block. But so we should probably get on to other parts of the 10 commandments.
Speaker 2:How about the next one? How about the next one?
Speaker 1:And so what is the next one, Steve?
Speaker 2:The next one is there and starts in verse seven. It says you shall not take the name of your Lord, your God, in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes his name in vain.
Speaker 1:So what does it mean in our day to take the Lord's name in vain? The word vain just means useless, right, Emptiness. So what does that mean to use the words the Lord's name in vain or in emptiness?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that the first thing that comes to people's mind is whenever the term GD is used. I don't wanna say it, Please don't. Right, but that that's using the Lord's name in vain, that you're cursing somebody else and you're invoking God's name in association with it.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'd add to that, not just that as a curse word, but just using Jesus Christ as an expletive as a curse word. Right, It would be included in it.
Speaker 2:Right because it's not being used in the right, in the proper form, correct, in the way it should be. So that's one thing. I think another way is also is that we are all born in God's image. We are, in essence, imagers of God. We are representatives of God And so, as we go about through our life, well, we have two classes, right, we have non-believers and believers.
Speaker 2:Regardless of whether we're believers or non-believers, we're still imagers of God. Even though the people don't acknowledge it, we're still made in God. Those people that are non-believers and don't believe in God they're still made in God's image And so we're representative. So those people that are non-believers that are going and representing they're not representing God at all, in a way, or taking God's name in vain. Correct For those people that are believers, that are actually expressing that they acknowledge God and that Jesus Christ is God and that they are followers of Jesus Christ and they have belief and trust in Jesus Christ, and then they do useless things as representations of God-believers. That, i think, is another way of taking God's name in vain. You're doing things and not being a true representative of as a believer in God.
Speaker 1:Right, so you shall not take the Lord's name in vain. The first thing I think of is how often in the Western world we hear this, and what you're saying is true. But the very first part is, using the Lord's name as a curse word to me is very offensive, and we as Christians are forced in the Western world, at least in our day, to hear daily our Lord's name used as a curse word, and so I find it very offensive. And there's a part of me, i'll confess, that wants to have mass protest in the street, demanding that other people not offend us. But yet we're supposed to sit here mildly and just take it. And so part of me wants to rise up in anger and say and demand that the culture stop using my Lord's name as a curse word.
Speaker 1:The next thought that enters my head is we as Christians need to follow the same advice, in the sense that we need to be very careful with our language. These aren't the 10 suggestions. Those are not the 10 suggestions. These are the 10 commandments. And right there. Do not use the Lord's name in an empty way. That's what he's saying. Don't use it to falsely say how many times have we heard oh, in God's name I'm telling the truth And when they're not, they're lying. And how many times have we had to be subjected to people besides the curse words, but just saying as an expletive as this, casually throwing it out? And we, as Christians, need to be very careful with our language. I think God takes this much more seriously than we do.
Speaker 2:I totally agree with that, and there's also the second part of this is that there's gonna be consequences for it. There's gonna be some sort of a punishment for it as well. Here's another way, i think that is taking God's name in vain. We have people that goes back to what I was mentioning as far as imagers of God as supposed believers, and they're out there teaching false doctrine and leading people astray with this false doctrine. They're totally misrepresenting God and even fleecing some people, taking advantage of them, and I think in some of these people they're nothing more than charlatans themselves. They're really not believers at all. They claim to be believers but yet they're just fleecing the people. On one of our other sessions, you mentioned this one person. What was his name?
Speaker 1:There was a documentary. The name of the documentary was Marjo. The man's name was Marjo Gortner. It's an old documentary. Look up an old documentary named Marjo. He goes into all the tricks that he used to just get money out of people in religion name.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you think about that Here? he is out there and he's fleecing the people. He's taking the people's money while representing God. To me, that's a clear, direct violation of this. He is taking God's name in vain because he's representing God, yet the whole time he's taking advantage of these people and he really doesn't believe and have trust in God himself.
Speaker 1:The other extreme is to have some of the ancient Jews wouldn't put the vowel points in the Hebrew around God's name, so nobody would say it. You'll even see some people in today's world where they won't type in English G-O-D, they'll leave the O out and put a dash there. See this fairly often. That's all because of this, not wanting to use the Lord's name in vain. Now, i don't personally think that's what this is talking about, because we can talk about God, we can talk about Yahweh, as long as it's in a reverent way. It's just not a vain way. That said, i would rather see somebody err on the side of carefulness than to err on the side of casualness, because this is just so important. Too often we err on the side of casualness. The next one is the Sabbath, which is verse 8. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days you labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord of God. And then he says don't do any work and nobody, any of your slaves or servants, are going to do any work, and even your cattle.
Speaker 1:This brings a big picture point here about the Ten Commandments. The first three commandments are focused on God. The last five are focused on mankind. The first three don't have an idol, no other gods before me, don't take my name in vain. The last ones don't do things against other people, don't steal, don't bear false witness against other people, etc. The Sabbath is the hinge point and the Sabbath is really both for God and for man. It's to take one day and seven as a day of rest and a day of worship. It's really for us to rest. It is a human need, but it's also a day to set aside to worship, which is a heavenly need. The Sabbath is sort of the hinge point. That covers both of the first ones and the last ones. These Ten Commandments are not in haphazard order.
Speaker 2:What can we learn, steve, about the Sabbath keeping It is a day of rest and it's something that, by doing it, we acknowledge as God is the Creator, because He links it there too. In six days, He created and on the seventh day He rested. By taking that day of rest, you're acknowledging that God created everything and that you're also supposed to do it in order to not just rest your body, but also to worship God and meditate on Him as well.
Speaker 1:Yes. So here's a question, Steve What day is the Sabbath? Is it Saturday or Sunday? Why is it that traditionally, the Jewish people worst upon Saturday and Christians have held Sunday? and do we get legalistic about which day it is? Is it?
Speaker 2:important, the Jewish and religious worship on Saturday, because that's what instructed is the day that they're supposed to. But the Saturday, their seventh day, wasn't just the only Sabbath, there were also Sabbaths after high festival days, so you could have a Sabbath, a day of rest that was instructed to have in the middle of a week, for example. So it wasn't just limited to do, but the main one was was the seventh day, and it goes back to God. God made, created everything in six days, and on the seventh day He rested. So that traditionally has been why that the Saturday was the day of rest in the Jewish religion.
Speaker 2:For us, as Christians, we traditionally do it because it was on the first day of the week, or what we call Sunday now, with Christ rose, whenever Jesus rose from the dead, and it was the first day He was discovered that He was resurrected, And so that has traditionally been the day that we take our worship of Him and our day of rest in relation to Him as well. But, that said, we are free from the law of becoming legalistic as far as which day, and so, depending upon where you are and what your work schedule might be, i think if you set one day aside per week, for sure, and focus on worshiping God Not just taking a rest, but focus on worshiping God then, then, that could be your own personal Sabbath.
Speaker 1:And so what you said correctly, steve. As far as which day it is, the reason why Christians have traditionally Held to be Sunday was because that's the day Jesus rose from the dead And it's the day over in Acts 2, the day of Pentecost. When the Holy Spirit came for the first time was on a Sunday, which was the day of Pentecost. It's when the church started and so, since it was the new covenant, the church just picked up on Sunday. But as far as which day was traditionally the day by the ancient Jews, if the Jewish people don't know, nobody does right. So if, whichever day it is, they've been keeping it for 3,000 years and more than 3,000 years. If they don't know Which day it is, nobody does. But the reason why we did on Sunday was what we mentioned Now, and I would agree with you 100% in the sense that what are we held to today? Are we legally required like, okay, this is in again the top 10 list, and we already said this isn't the 10 suggestions, and so we're not going to sit here and say, oh, it's okay to lie and steal and cheat and murder people. So the Sabbath keepers out there that are our friends are going to say how are you going to say you can, then You, it's still wrong to lie, cheat and bear false witness, covet your neighbor's wife and adultery, but now you're. You're fudging on the Sabbath And so not really our opinion. I'll give you scripture Romans chapter 14 goes to great lengths to say that some people treat all days alike.
Speaker 1:Some day, some people treat some day special. I E Sabbath keeping. But he says Whatever day you do, praise the Lord, long as you do it to honor God. Praise the Lord. Don't split a church over it. If you want to keep from sundown Friday till sundown Saturday, praise the Lord. What you can't do is say you're earning your way to God by keeping that. You're earning righteousness by keeping the Sabbath. No, no, christ Paul and the New Testament makes that very clear. And Secondly, don't go around forcing other people to do it, saying that they're sinning by not. If they want to keep Sunday or or some other day, then that's fine. Now I think in our day, steve, we get too casual.
Speaker 1:Yes and then another another Bible passages. All I'll give to our Sabbath keepers out there. Colossians 2, verse 16 says to let no one judge you regarding the Sabbath. It says it flat out. So we're told at least twice in the New Testament Don't split churches, don't judge other people about Sabbath keeping. I think we really should be more firm about Keeping a day of rest and a day of worship and we should really treat it more special than we do. What wouldn't you say, steve?
Speaker 2:and my younger days, the city's pretty much shut down and there weren't things that were open other than Maybe convenient stores or gas stations and things like that, and then that all changed. In earlier my career, i was in the retail business, and so I was in the grocery business specifically, and so we were closed on Sundays, and then the company, as other grocery chains, started staying open on Sundays. Our grocery chain started to to Stay open on Sunday as well, and then they started forcing the managers to work at least one Sunday a month, and so I didn't like it At the time because of it, and I don't really think it helped gain aren't any sales. I think it just spread the sales out To rather than having any extra sales, and I had to schedule people to work on Sundays. I had to work some of the Sundays. Didn't like it, but whenever I did, i always tried to have another day off, right, and so there were other activities during the week that I could go to church and worship God and also focus on him.
Speaker 1:I remember in college going to into a grocery store to buy laundry basket, and where we lived at the time Couldn't sell that because that was a work tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah and weren't allowed. It's what they call blue laws. Right, weren't allowed to do that. So how far we've come? right now, we're in many cases, forcing employees to work on Sundays. Now one last thing before we leave this.
Speaker 1:In this passage It says not only you, but travelers, non-citizens, animals, slaves. Okay, so no one could work on the Sabbath, including the slaves, and we're gonna have a special topic on slaves. But this is just one of these passages where you could not overwork them. You could not do what is done in many slave cultures, which was overwork these people. The slaves, were legally required to keep all the laws of the Jewish nation and so they were not Chattel slaves like is too common in many countries. And the other last thing here is that it says because God Created the world and rested on the seventh day, so Sabbath keeping goes all the way back to creation and Was prior to the law of Moses. That's probably where we ought to stop, for today We're still not through what? the 10 commandments, because there again there's so much here. But that's okay, because it just gives us one more other chance to one additional chance to Talk about it. Yeah, which we will do next time as we continue to reason through the Bible.
Speaker 2:Thank you for watching and listening and may God bless you.
