114- Pastor Joe Duke - Angels, Our Invisible Caretakers

What does the Bible really say about angels—and how are they at work in our lives today?

In this episode, host Ivelisse Page welcomes pastor Joe Duke for a compelling, Scripture-centered conversation that brings clarity to one of the most fascinating topics in the Christian faith. Together, they explore the true nature of angels as God’s ministering spirits, separating biblical truth from common misconceptions—like whether people become angels after death or if angels should be prayed to.

Through powerful personal stories, including Joe’s unforgettable “Angel in the Ceiling” encounter, you’ll hear how God may use angels to bring comfort, protection, and encouragement in life’s hardest moments. This episode also offers wisdom on discerning spiritual experiences and finding peace through God’s presence.

If you’ve ever wondered how angels fit into your faith journey—or long to better understand God’s unseen work around you—this conversation will deepen your perspective and strengthen your trust in Him.

Learn more about Pastor Joe Duke here.

Suggested Resources:

• BOOK:  Reflections: Words to Inspire, Challenge and Encourage You by Joe Duke
• BOOK:  This Present Darkness by Frank E. Peretti
• Believe Big A Night of Prayer - Registration
• Grace Works International

Your donations power our podcast's mission to support cancer patients with hope, insights, and resources. Every contribution fuels our ability to uplift and empower. Join us in making a lasting impact. Donate now! 🌟

Transcript

 Hi, I am Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to the Believe Big podcast, the show where we take deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe.

 Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page and I'm thankful to spend this time with you. 

My guest today is a dear, dear friend and retired pastor Joe Duke. Joe is the co-founder and the pastor emeritus of LifePoint Church. He served as the church pastor, my pastor, for over 35 years. As a pastor he desired to create a local church that champions the liberating message of God's grace in authentic and creative ways. Joe is also the founder and executive director of Grace Works International. As a writer and speaker, he is obsessed with helping people grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus.

Joe and my other dear friend, Tricia, his wife have two sons who are both married. Their six grandchildren are responsible for much of their joy and laughter that is in the Duke household. Finally, Joe has written a book, Reflections: Words to Inspire, Challenge and Encourage You. It's available on Amazon and I highly recommend that each of you get that.

We will definitely put the link in our show notes. But Joe, thank you for joining us today. 

Well, thank you so much, Ivelisse. This is just a real treat. And, uh, before we dive too far into this, I just have to say, you know, we've, Trish and I have had a front row seat to Believe Big for all these years, and God, uh, through you and Jimmy and your team has just done miraculous things. And so, wow! It's fantastic what, what's happening through Believe Big. So keep it up. Really proud of you guys. 

Thank you, Joe. Well, I always say it's amazing what God does. Like he doesn't waste our pain and you know it when we trust him and put our faith in him, it's amazing what he allows us to accomplish.

So thank you for Agreed. Your kind words. 

Yeah. 

Well, it's kind of a tradition here on the Believe Big podcast for our guests to share their favorite health tip. And so do you have one that you can share with us today? 

Wow. The list could be long, right? But I think for me, I would have to say rest.

Rest as a, as a, a way to replenish and to, uh, you know, come at life. I haven't always done that. I, um, learned the hard way I think. But, you know, God has built in Sabbath as a regular rhythm and routine. And then of course, sleep. You know, I heard somebody say years ago, sometimes the most spiritual thing we can do is go take a nap and there's, uh, something to be said for the power, uh, of rest in rejuvenating us.

So. That's what I'd say rest. 

I, I love that. And I think that a lot of people in this busy world to keep go, go, go. And they don't realize how important rest is. And I, I always feel like, well, if Jesus took the time to get away and rest, I think that we need to as well, we need to learn from him. Yeah.

Yeah. I totally agree. And the math is upside down. We, we reason. Well, if I do more, I can get more done, but it actually doesn't work that way. There's a sting in the tail. Right? 

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I am so excited to have you talk today about a topic that I think confuses a lot of people. A lot of people are unsure exactly what the biblical significance are of angels and the role they play in our lives and how they are in this world. And you know, I read your article, an Angel in the Ceiling, and it just truly hit my soul in such an amazing way to know. Yes, that just is such an encouragement that comes from the Lord when we have those experiences.

And I'll have you share about that later. But to begin, um, how does scripture actually define angels and what do you feel is their primary role in God's plan? 

Yeah, so angels are created by God, uh, contrary to what many people think. You know, I've done lots of funerals over the years and I can't tell you how many times I've heard a loved one or friend say, well, God needed another angel, or describing the deceased.

And that's not really what's going on there at all. They are, um, spiritual beings created by God, uh, to minister, and they are ministering spirits the Bible tells us. And, without getting into too much, there are good angels and bad angels. Uh, so Revelation tells us that maybe about a third of the angelic host in heaven was swept down, uh, with the devil or Lucifer, and they became demonic, uh, beings.

So evil angels, so good angels and, and bad angels. 

Yes. Yeah. So we, you know, it's interesting because a lot of us like to believe and think about the good angels, but when it comes to the demonic influence, uh, that spiritual world that's unseen, people don't realize how important prayer is and standing firm, you know, putting on the armor of God to protect yourself from those fallen angels that come and attack.

But for those, um, listening today that are going through suffering. Say losing a loved one or going through an illness like cancer, how might God use angels? You, you mentioned to minister, but how do they minister and comfort his people? 

Yeah. You know, I think, um, God is a God of comfort and angels are one way that he expresses that comfort.

It could be through, um, we might experience it through prayer or through reading God's word or through the encouragement of other people in, in our lives. And, uh, I don't know that we can completely understand or appreciate the angelic encouragement that God gives us. You know, for example, I've often thought, Hey, when I get to heaven, will, will we, uh, will God, you know, show a video of all the encounters, angelic encounters that I've had just to encourage me. And the Bible, even in, in, uh, Hebrews chapter 13 says that we are to be careful to entertain strangers because in so doing, we may have actually interfaced with angels.

We may have entertained angels. And so I think while angels are spirit beings, they, they are able to manifest, uh, in human bodies or other forms. And so we never quite know, right? We never know. And so God could, uh, encourage us in that way. I've had lots of encounters with people who either close to death or recovering from an illness have described a being standing at the foot of the bed, or, uh, there they are again, there. Those, uh, you know, uh, a familiarity stories where a person might have an encounter on a highway, and then later years later not having known anything about who that person was, see that person again, dressed in the same clothes, those kinds of things.

And so the stories are out there and they're, uh, actually quite amazing. We're not to be fearful, we we're to be encouraged by that. Mm-hmm. We're to know that God, this is one way that God comforts us and, and takes care of us. 

Yeah. You know, I, I had an encounter after my, uh, first cancer surgery. I remember it was, it was at night.

Everyone had left. Um, Jimmy was probably going out to get coffee or something. And, um, I remember waking up after, um, in the middle of the night and I actually saw my dad sitting on my bed. I, I felt like I was in a dream at first. I was like, wait, am I dreaming? And all of a sudden I'm just looking. I'm like, that's my dad.

And he grabbed my hand and he said, you're gonna be okay. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then he was gone. And I was like, I started crying and I just felt such comfort in that, whether that was my dad or God used his form to comfort me right when I was going through something so difficult. I don't know. Um, you know what God meant by that if it was or wasn't, but I know that it did comfort me like you're sharing. 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, throughout the Bible we find all kinds of angel encounters. I think of, for example, Peter was imprisoned and an angel met him, his chain fell off, and the angel let him away and he followed the angel or.

Or Paul, I'm thinking about, uh, on a ship and he said, the angel of the Lord stood, stood by me this night, and the 276 people on board the ship would not perish, but listen to what I say, Paul, Paul would say. And then of course, here's the classic story of Daniel, you know, thrown into the lions den. And it was an angel who shut the mouths of the lions to keep Daniel from being eaten alive.

Uh, you know, over and over again, their angelic appearances, uh, throughout the scriptures. 

Yeah. So I read your article, an Angel in the Ceiling, uh, about what you experienced one night. You know, can you briefly share, uh, what that article entailed? 

Yeah. We had moved from, uh, Dallas, Texas to Maryland to start our church many years ago.

It was at a time, uh, for, for your listeners who have had any experience or connection with the church plant. Uh, there's just a lot of work and a lot of, uh, agony and I, I think in the early days I sensed, um, a kind of demonic oppression, like hell had sort of unleashed full force to come against us and to oppose the start of this new church.

And so we were about year three into the church plant, I think. And, um, I had been worrying, I had been tired. I had been wondering, God, what are you doing? What are we doing here? What's happening? And one night, went to bed and was lying in the bed. And as I stared into the darkness of the ceiling, a giant wing. The way that I say it or describe it is cut, cut through the ceiling and rotated through the ceiling. And, um, I wasn't afraid. I wasn't, um, you know, alarmed. I mean, certainly I was maybe short of breath for a little bit, but. I still remember the vivid details of that experience, and I've only told the story a handful of times.

I wrote the article about it with the hopes of encouraging, uh, people. But there are a couple of things that stood out to me about that experience. First the Wing was enormous. It, it literally was the entire width of our bedroom ceiling. And as I, you know, thought about that, it, it. The entire wing was never visible at one time.

Wow. So it cut through the ceiling and just sort of passed from left to right and then moved back up, uh, through the ceiling. And it was, um, awe inspiring. It was a little bit like I describe it, like standing close to the aquarium glass as a big white, you know, great white shark passes by kind of that sense of awe.

And the, the other piece, that I remember about that experience was every detail was vivid. So there were some colors. I remember seeing the fine detail of the wings and the feathers and, you know, the whole experience lasted maybe 10 to 15 seconds and it wasn't like, uh, and then it was over. It was like, okay.

I came away with a sense of great comfort, feeling like God was saying, I see you. I'm with you. Um, I haven't abandoned you. And I, I think it was just something that I couldn't, contrive, I couldn't make up, I didn't pray for it. I, it just happened. I can't deny that it happened. I'm careful not to sensationalize those kinds of things, but we have a sensational God and I think, uh, my hope is that God would get glory.

It was an encouragement to me, uh, and certainly not an experience I've had since and again, many years ago. 

That's incredible. I mean, I, I can't even imagine. And so that brought another question to mind for me is when you see pictures of angels in stores or in prints, you see these little cherubs little flying around and.

What, what does scripture, how does scripture actually describe angels? I've, I've come to see them more as warriors versus these little cherubs, you know, that are flying around. 

Yeah. You know, the little fat cherub on the mantle, it doesn't quite do service to what angels are really like. I mean, we know from Isaiah's vision in the Old Testament in Isaiah six that he had was caught up to heaven, this heavenly vision and angels had wings and they flew and they, uh, so there's a sense in which angels have that sort of characteristic, but they can also take human form. Well, you know, they've done that in the past and, uh, we know that that's a, a possibility as well. Again, angels are created, beings. We don't pray to angels. We don't worship angels. Uh, the only worship of an angel, at least in, in the Bible is known as the angel of the Lord, which it's more than likely the pre-incarnate Christ who allows worship.

Any other angel would not allow worship, would say, stand up, you don't worship me. So again, created by God, uh, to minister and to encourage us. 

Yes. And so you also mentioned something else that when you had that experience, you did not feel fear. 

Right. 

And so I, I think explain that and how the difference is you knowing that it is something from the Lord because he is not a God of fear.

He's one of love. Yeah. So that's, explain that. 

When you look at angelic encounters, uh, throughout the scriptures, you have angels appearing, for example, to Joseph, to Mary, to the shepherds on the hillside, those kinds of things. One of the first things that comes out of their mouths is "fear not." Don't fear.

And I think they're probably saying that because they're, could be an opportunity to fear. I mean, this is, this is something out of the ordinary. You know, as I was part of that experience all those years ago, I recognized pretty quickly into that experience that this, this is not natural, this is supernatural.

This is a supernatural experience. And so we don't have to be afraid. Uh, and I think, you know, God is trying to communicate to us something special. His love, his care for us, uh, the way that he communicates, uh, to us. And angels happen to be one of those, uh, opportunities and, and throughout the scriptures.

You know, over and over again we see this. 

Yes. So how can caregivers who often feel exhausted and unseen, you know, find encouragement in the idea that God may be sending help even in unseen ways? 

Yeah, that's a great question. I, I think we start with the reminder that God is a God of care. That he is a God of comfort, that he sends His Holy Spirit, who, by the way, is greater than angels as a comforter and as a guide. And in those experiences, especially for many of your listeners who are caregivers or who are suffering with a cancer or some other disease, it has to be so, so difficult and to know that God is there even when sometimes it seems like he's not. And we can't completely understand how all of that fits together.

But he does provide care. And he does provide his presence with us. His Holy Spirit is with us. Uh, he may from time to time send an angel. It may be something we know about or don't know about. Again, the passage in the New Testament says that we see angels sometimes and we don't even know they're angels.

So that could be in a caregiving situation or someone who's been part of the chain of events to bring comfort to a person who, who is in need and suffering physically. 

Yeah. You know, I think one of the books that really opened my eyes to, even though it's a fictional book years ago in college, that really gave me a really clear understanding of angels,

is This Present Darkness. I, I don't know if you've read that book, but I just was fascinated with it because it really opened my eyes to see, wow, you know, God uses angels in amazing ways, and it's important that, as you mentioned, that we don't pray to them. We pray to the Lord. Correct. But, but I, uh, how do you balance that and asking for protection?

You know, like, I know when my kids travel, I always ask the Lord, Lord, send your warrior angels to protect them while they travel. 

Mm-hmm. 

Surround them with the blood of Jesus, you know. So how, how do you balance that? 

Well, I think, um, part of the role of angels is protection, right? Mm-hmm. And there, there's a little hint in the New Testament. You know, we, we sort of laugh a little bit about a guardian angel, especially when you think of It's a Wonderful Life and Clarence, you know, yes. Some of us saying, oh please, I hope I'm not stuck with the Clarence. But Jesus, Jesus is talking there and he says, uh, this is in. Matthew 18.

He says, take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I say to you that in heaven, they're angels always see the face of my father who is in heaven. Now, we don't know exactly what Jesus was talking about there, but he is saying that little ones have angels. Now those could be young children, it could be young believers in Jesus in this uh, context, but they appear to be ready to provide support and ready to spring into action on our behalf. And so while the prospect of a quote, guardian angel seems a little quaint, especially when we think about put our own images to it, uh, it's not that farfetched. And so there are, there are angels sent to, um, assist us and to help us through life. 

Yes. I love that. What would you say to someone who feels alone in their suffering and wonders if God has forgotten them?

Well, I would say that number one, he hasn't. And I look back in my own life and there are times that I feel, I've felt forgotten. I felt like, God, where are you? My prayers seem to bounce up, hit the ceiling, and come down in my face again. Uh, and I think all of those kinds of situations where we're desperate really reflect the lament of the psalmist in the Old Testament when they're, they're saying, God, have you forgotten me? Where are you? And I encourage people all the time, don't ever feel embarrassed about praying those kinds of prayers. Number one, God can take it. And number two, he knows how you're feeling anyway. So it doesn't do us any good to try to fake God out, to try to pretend whether we're trying to use flowery language that we think we should be using in prayer.

He's there. And I think the more we move into his presence and embrace his truth in the scriptures, we discover more about his character. He is incredibly loving. His ways are higher than our ways. They're different from the way that we think. And so what seems like a disaster to us, maybe on the back end, we might one day be able to see, wow, this, this is what God did through that experience.

This is how he used that to get glory for himself and to encourage, encourage other people. 

Hmm. That's good. That's really good. You know, there are many stories of angel encounters today that you see on social and everywhere. How can one discern what aligns with scripture and what may not?

Yeah, well, it's not, it's not always easy, number one. So let's start there. But an angel will never contradict the truth of God as found in the scriptures. So you're not going to find, uh, an angel, for example, as in the garden. Has God really said, God's trying to deprive you of this or that. Go ahead, eat that fruit.

Go ahead, do what you want to do. You, you'll not hear messages like that from an angel and I, and I believe as well that not only does God speak through angelic beings, speak through the scriptures, but his Holy Spirit is within those of us who've believed in Jesus. And so that word from him will never contradict the truth of the Bible.

And so he's always speaking, always comforting. He's with us. We don't worship angels. We don't, pray to angels. It's one way that God moves toward us to remind us of his great love for us. No matter what we've ever done, no matter what we're struggling with, no matter what we wanna blame him for, he is there for us.

And this is just one more reminder of his great love and his plan for humanity.

 We appreciate you listening to the Believe Big podcast where we help you discover hope, healing, and the latest breakthroughs in cancer care. Later this year, we will be bringing that mission to life through two powerful upcoming events. You can join us for the Harvesting Hope Dinner in Colorado on September 25th from 5 to 9 pm. This is an inspiring evening of community, stories of impact, and a chance to bring hope directly to patients in need. Then, you won't want to miss the Integrative Cancer Symposium on October 17th at the Sheraton in Towson, Maryland, or attend virtually. This one day event gathers leading experts in integrative oncology to share the latest scientific advancements, innovative therapies and real world strategies you can use today. Whether you're a patient, caregiver, or practitioner, this is where hope meets action. Learn more and reserve your spot at believebig.org/symposium.

 So I know there are people listening that don't have a faith, you know? Mm-hmm. This may be their first time hearing about Angels and the scriptures, and Daniel, you know, some of us grew up with it, others have not. If someone is curious to learn more about who God is, uh, who the Trinity is, um, where would you have them start?

You know, I would first of all try to get to a place where one might acknowledge that we're, we are heirs of the enlightenment. And so as Westerners we tend to be suspicious of anything supernatural. If you can't see it, taste it, touch it, smell it, it must not be real. And I often tell people who are far from God or maybe have no concept of God or agnostic or atheist or whatever, if you could muster the courage to pray a prayer like, God, I don't know anything about you. I don't know who you are, but if you're there, would you reveal yourself to me? Would you help me understand that maybe you are real? I would also invite people to open up a Bible. Most American homes have a Bible, but if you don't, you can find them pretty easily, even in thrift stores these days.

And, start in one of the gospels, in the New Testament. All that might become familiar. And even if you have to go to the table of contents, that's a great place to start. And just begin reading with an open heart and an open mind to be on a journey of discovery to, to be open. Uh, it takes a certain amount of courage to move in the direction of something that you have become suspicious of or doubting of for many years.

But I, I've discovered that God is real and that he will meet us, uh, as we at least are pointed in his direction and, and moving with a, with a kind of holy curiosity open to what he might want to do in our lives. 

Yeah, that, that's amazing that you shared that because that's actually the same question my father asked when he was diagnosed.

He was not a praying man. He would go to church with my mom and my sisters and I Easter and Christmas, he was that Easter and Christmas. Yeah. And Christian. And when he got sick, he asked God, he said, if you're real, for real. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, get me through this operation and I'll find out if you're, if you say who you say you are and find out about you.

And God got him through that operation and he spent that next year going to every church and different religions even. He went to the Mormon church, he went to the Jehovah Witness Church. He went to every denomination and, uh, the Jewish temple, I mean everywhere. And he said he finally found freedom and forgiveness at this non-denominational Christian Church.

And he said all of his life, he had tried to be good enough by everyone's standard. Yeah. And the weight of that. Just was so weighing him down and he said when he had that encounter with Jesus at that church, he said, I found freedom. I found forgiveness, and even though the burden of cancer was heavy, he found relief.

Yeah. 

And I will never forget that moment. 'cause I was 13 at the time and I would remember, it brings tears to my eyes thinking about it going into his room and seeing his countenance just changed. It was, that's amazing. 

His 

eyes were brighter. He was happy, joyful. He was talking to us about faith, and it was actually his walk that led my whole family to a personal relationship with Christ.

It wasn't just going to church and doing the to-dos, it was having that personal friendship uh, with God, with the Lord, with Jesus, and, transformed all of our lives. And so that is a powerful question and um, I'm so glad you shared that because it's as simple of that. Yeah. I think in Christian churches we can make it so complicated and you know, Jesus says, just believe, you know, ask questions.

That's right. 

And he will reveal himself to you. So I'm so grateful.

And, and most people are wired as you know, Ivelisse to contribute something to their salvation. If God is real, I gotta work harder at it if they've gotten past the point of hiding from God, you know, 'cause God doesn't like me. God is out to get me.

And that couldn't be further from the truth. And, uh, I, I think, you know, to have that story as part of your story now, and, and that's making, um, inroads into other people's lives in what God is doing, through Believe Big. Like what a wonderful tribute to your dad, right? 

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. 

Beautiful. 

But the legacy he's left, uh, changed our lives and future generations.

And for anyone listening you did mention that, who does not have a Bible in their home, I just would encourage you to contact Believe Big. Either call our (888) 317-5850 number or support@believebig.org and we will send you one. So please, note that not having one is not an issue, just contact us and we'll make sure we send you one.

And we also have prayer nights available quarterly. So if you just wanna experience God in a different way and just have someone pray over you, you know, it is not a pressure or anything like that, you can just sit and listen and have someone just, um, pray a blessing and healing prayer over you. And those happen quarterly.

And the next one is happening at the end of April for anyone who's interested. And so in closing, Joe, if you could leave one message of hope for patients and caregivers who are overwhelmed right now, what would you want them to remember about God's care and his presence? 

Uh, I would say if you could somehow work it into your mind and your heart, that even though you may not understand so much about God, he's real.

And he cares, and he may not answer your prayers in the way that you want them answered, but we're always told to pray it anyway, to talk to God, to not try to hide from God, to be honest and authentic with God. He knows all of that stuff inside of us, anyway. And, uh, you know, as crazy as it might sound, what have you got to lose?

If God is God, then he is worthy of our devotion and our attention. And, uh, maybe also in that we need to restructure what we've come to believe about God. That he is perhaps way more gracious and loving and kind than some of us have ever imagined. So much so that he sent Jesus to take on the burden or the weight or the sins of the entire world, and offers that salvation free of charge as a gift, not by works of righteousness, which we've done impossible to be connected to God, head to heaven through our own efforts. 

I love that. I love that. And you know, you made me recall this at a conference. I was speaking to someone and they were talking about, um, these bright lights and how there's many ways to heaven. There's many ways. And I, um, politely was saying, you know, that in my faith, in the Christian faith, there is only one way and his name is Jesus.

He is the way, the truth and the life. And I interesting when I was telling my son John about that, um, after the conference, he said, mom, you know that in Corinthians there's a verse that the, um, Satan can come as an angel of light to deceive people. Mm-hmm. And people may think just because they see this white light or this bright light that it can be God and all, you know, all roads lead to him.

What would you say to someone who has that belief and, and to come into an understanding of what we believe in, in the Christian Church about Jesus being the way? 

You know feelings are enormously powerful and I've heard so many stories over lots of years of ministry where, where people will say, well, God said this to me, and it, it might be, you know, the ridiculous analogy of, God wants me to divorce my wife now and, uh, you know, kill this woman's husband so I can marry her or whatever.

Just, you know, the stories are crazy and the stuff that we can talk ourselves into. Um, the subtle piece of deception is those that are deceived, don't know, they're deceived. But I think we enter into the reality that every one of us is capable of any sin. Every one of us is capable of, of being deceived, of having our minds warped.

And if we want something so badly, we might choose to believe it apart from the evidence. And so, you know, I think the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, for example, is strong. It's real. We don't unscrew our heads and take this blind leap of faith. I tell people all the time, a faith in God is based on credible, reliable reasons to place your faith in what Jesus has done for you.

And so we, we start there never quite having everything figured out. Uh, you know, I think even in heaven forever, we continue to learn and grow because God, uh, is, is vast and unt tapable in the sense that we would have comprehension of him completely. 

Yes. Yes. Well, Joe, is there anything else that I didn't ask you that you would like to share before we close up?

Uh, gosh, Ivelisse, I, I, I keep bending back toward what, um, a privilege it is to be able to spend this time with you and just how overwhelmed I am at God's work with you and Jimmy and your team on Believe Big, and to think that you're bringing hope not only for physical healing and cure, but hope for soul healing and soul cure.

And so keep it up, you know, just, just praying that God gives you the strength and energy. And I, I, I know your vision is undaunted and you know, I'm just, Tricia and I are standing on tiptoe to see what God does. Um, and I don't know this side of heaven, if we'll fully understand how big what you're doing really is.

So thank you. Thank you for your friendship and thank you for a chance just to share this time together. 

Well, thank you Joe. You just made me tear up, but thank you so much and uh, it's been honor to have you on the podcast today. 

Thank you. My pleasure.

 If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support our podcast, please subscribe and share it with others. Be sure to visit believebig.org to access the show notes and discover our bonus content. Thanks again and keep Believing Big!