119-Jen Nolan - Blood Sugar and Metabolic Balance

Think blood sugar only matters if you have diabetes? Think again.  

Ivelisse welcomes oncology nutrition consultant Jen Nolan of Remission Nutrition to unpack how blood sugar balance quietly shapes your energy, mood, sleep, cravings, and long-term metabolic health.

If you've ever hit an afternoon slump, battled brain fog, or found yourself reaching for snacks you didn't really want, Jen explains what your body may be trying to tell you, along with a few surprising signs that are easy to miss. She and Ivelisse explore the "orchestra" of hormones that work alongside blood sugar, why this conversation matters especially after menopause or hysterectomy, and how cancer treatment, steroids, and stress can throw things off balance.

Best of all, Jen shares simple, doable strategies you can start today, from a breakfast swap and the order you eat your food to an easy movement trick you can do without leaving your chair. Her message is full of grace: small, sustainable changes add up.

Tune in for practical wisdom that can help you feel more energized, sleep better, and take back control of your cravings. Plus, hear details about the upcoming Believe Big Integrative Health Symposium in Towson, Maryland!

Learn more about Jen Nolan here.

Suggested Resources

• Remission Nutrition
• Remission Nutrition - Blog
• Nutrition Genome
• Believe Big Podcast, Episode #36, Jen Nolan - Tips to Handle Treatments & Make Them More Effective

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Transcript

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Fixing the 3 pm Crash

Ivelisse Page 0:07

Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening to the Believe Big Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into your healing with health experts, integrative practitioners, biblical faith leaders, and cancer thrivers from around the globe. Welcome to today's episode on the Believe Big Podcast. My name is Ivelisse Page, and I am so thankful and happy to spend this time with you. Today, you are in for a treat. My dear friend Jen Nolan of Remission Nutrition is returning to the podcast. If you don't know Jen, she is the owner and lead oncology nutrition consultant for Remission Nutrition. Jen received her undergraduate degree in food science, human nutrition, and dietetics, dietetics from Colorado State University, and she holds a master's degree in holistic nutrition. She is a certified Nutrition Genome practitioner and has her 250-hour oncology nutrition consultant certification in the field of oncology nutrition. Her knowledge of metabolic nutrition is unsurpassed in the field, and as she is also a certified metabolic balance coach, which is a sophisticated nutrition system based on a client's blood values and unique health profile that originated in Munich, Germany. Jen will also be a returning speaker at our Believe Big Integrative Symposium this coming October in Towson, Maryland. So, make sure to click the link in the show notes so that you can see Jen and so many other of our amazing practitioners on this one-day symposium. So Jen, welcome back to the show.

Jen Nolan 1:59

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Favorite Health Tip

Ivelisse Page 2:02

Well, before we start and get into our topic today, I would love to hear what your newest favorite health tip is.

Jen Nolan 2:11

Hmm. Well, I thought about this a lot and I wonder what I said last time, honestly. But right now, I'm having so much fun with a sport that I haven't done... I've done it a little bit, but that I did as a kid. And so my health tip is to find something in your life that you, that really brings you joy and brings you to that kid-like feeling. And so I've been roller skating. I happen to live like two blocks from a roller skating rink, and I am having a blast. And so it's something that I can go do in the evenings and just tr- sort of like, it's not intense exercise, it's just fun. And I'm moving my body and my smile is huge. And so that's my health tip. Find something fun that brings you joy.

Ivelisse Page 3:02

I love that. I love that. I was just, um, at a conference in San Diego and went to see my son up in Newport Beach, and they have these pathways that follow along the beach there. It's beautiful. And we were seeing a lot of roller skaters. I'm like, wow, they're back. It's back. Roller skating's back. I know. And, uh, so that's so great that you said that, and I 100% agree, do things that bring you joy- Mm-hmm because it's really gonna improve your health in more ways than, than you can think. True. So that's great.

Why Blood Sugar Matters

Ivelisse Page 3:34

So today we are gonna be talking about, uh, blood sugar regulation and why it's important for metabolic health. And Jen, for listeners who've never thought much about blood sugar, unless they have diabetes, can you explain why blood sugar balance matters for everyone, especially for energy, mood, and long-term health?

Jen Nolan 3:56

Yeah. I mean, I, I think of it oftentimes as sort of this backbone to health and wellness. Um, when we have blood sugar balance or regulation, it's sort of the opposite of being on this blood sugar, what I call a blood sugar rollercoaster, where we're kind of having these big spikes and then we're diving down in our energy, maybe in our mood, maybe our sleep isn't going so hot. So we're really having these highs and lows and these swings, and we don't feel very good when that's happening. Our energy isn't balanced. It's very high and low. We're reaching for maybe a nap, snacks, sugar, caffeine, things to sort of bring us back up. And we're seeing this, we see this with all ages, and I think that's really interesting. So whether it's k- children that are, you know, having these big swings in their blood sugar, their mood, you know, the tears, the blood sugar crash, and adults.

Hidden Dysregulation Signs

Jen Nolan 4:57

Yeah. So- Yeah

Ivelisse Page 4:57

so what are the early, easy-to-miss signs that someone's blood sugar might be swinging up or down throughout the day?

Jen Nolan 5:05

I love that question. I think that it's the, like, s- I ask this question of a lot of people, right, that I work with, and it's like, "Do you need a nap in the afternoon at 3:00, or ready for a nap?" Or you're losing motivation. Your brain might not be working all that well. That's a big sign. Or that, like, mid-afternoon, like, munchies, like, I need to go to the vending machine or the refrigerator to go have a snack. That's a big sign. Um, also, uh, sometimes when people are in the middle of the night, they might be waking up, and I've heard many people say either, "I need to eat some food before I go to bed so I can sleep," or, "I'm, I need a snack in the middle of the night," or, "I need to eat right away when I wake up in the morning because I'm famished," or, "I'm starving." So those are signs of metabolic sort of imbalance or blood sugar dysregulation.

Ivelisse Page 6:02

Hmm. Very interesting.

Jen Nolan 6:03

Mm-hmm.

Menopause Hormones and Insulin

Ivelisse Page 6:04

So, you know, I was chatting with you about this before we got on, but I wanted to get a little personal for a moment, because I think so many women can relate to this. After my surgical menopause three years ago, I noticed my body holding on to weight in a way that it never had before. It has been so frustrating to me as I exercise, I eat well. The one aspect was that my blood work showed that my A1C and my cortisol levels were a little higher level of normal. Uh, my integrative doctor explained that my body was actually storing fat to protect estrogen stores, since the fat cells can produce a form of estrogen. And then I recently started a program where my integrative doctor's working to help my body produce estrogen through my adrenal system while simultaneously, you know, stabilizing my insulin levels. So can you explain the connection between blood sugar spikes, adrenal health, and the hormonal balance for women after menopause or a hysterectomy, and why stabilizing insulin is so much more important for women in this season of life than most people realize?

Jen Nolan 7:15

Yeah. And I mean, what I think about with hormones in general is oftentimes we go right to the sex hormones, right? And we're like, what's the estrogen doing, the progesterone, the testosterone, all of those things. I think it's really important to remember, and I'm gonna kind of answer it, I, I promise. But what-- It's an orchestra, and insulin, you mentioned insulin is one of the hormones, right? Just like melatonin is, cortisol. So we have to think of all of the hormones as this delicate orchestra, right? So we mess with one, and the others start to kind of tip in other directions. And so it's a constant sort of balancing act, and I think what can happen is it can be... But when it's more of a jarring thing that happens, that tip, the scale tips really hard. So we-- I feel like being gentle in general, especially when we are sort of having these, whether it's from surgery or regular, you know, sort of non-surgical menopause, being really gentle. And that's, that's something that I don't think we do enough of. We're just push, push, pushing. So a little off-topic, but not. We-- Sometimes I'll talk to clients, and they're all of a sudden they're doing like these really, really short eating windows And they're pushing, right? All of a sudden they're eating one meal a day every single day, and it can be a little bit much, right? So being gentle, I think, is really important. So if our cortisol is off, we're overly stressing maybe, and then we're maybe not able to sleep. Maybe our melatonin's off. We're eating at the wrong times of the day. So it's all an orchestra, and I'm always working to be like, "Okay, how do we put it back together in a nice, gentle way?" Yeah. I don't know if that answered your question at

Ivelisse Page 9:12

all. No, that, that did. That did. I really think that I didn't realize even the, how big of a connection that was in, you know, the storage of fat and also in being able to, you know, have good quality sleep and everything else. Mm-hmm. So like you said, I think we always focus on that estrogen, progesterone, and not the whole orchestra, as you mentioned. I love that visual.

Hydration and Glucose Control

Ivelisse Page 9:38

You know, another aspect that I didn't realize, especially, you know, living in Colorado, is I know that dehydration affects so many things like aging, constipation, but I didn't know it also increases your blood sugar. Can you share why, and how can a person know if they're drinking enough water for their health and blood sugar regulation?

Jen Nolan 9:58

Yeah. I mean, I think that it's one of those foundational principles, and I'm always a little bit embarrassed when someone has hired me to help them with their nutrition and all of the things, the lifestyle, and I'm like, "And you're not drinking enough water." Do you know how common it is? I'll have people that are eating, like, these really elaborate diets and all these things, taking gobs of supplements, and they're drinking hardly any water. So I think that the hydration is huge, and you're right. In Colorado, it's even more important when we're exercising and sweating, even more important. It's another, um, part of the orchestra and the balance. So I usually say my rule of thumb is half of your body weight in ounces of water per day. More when you live in a really dry climate. More when you're exercising. So when somebody's also exercising, I'm like, "You don't get to count that water you're drinking while you're exercising." So it's foundational. It's foundational to keep our electrolytes in balance, um, our, our gut health. You know, when I think about hormones and if somebody's really hydrated, dehydrated and they're not having proper bowel movements, they're not ridding themselves of these really important, the, the, I think about the exogenous estrogens and those naughty hormones that we need to excrete, and we're not gonna do that necessarily if we're dehydrated and not detoxing.

Ivelisse Page 11:27

Yeah. Well said.

Cancer Treatments and Blood Sugar

Ivelisse Page 11:29

A- another aspect I feel like many in our community are in post-treatment. Mm. So how can chemotherapy, steroids, or hormone therapy affect blood sugar regulation, and what should overcomers watch for?

Jen Nolan 11:44

Hmm. Yeah. I would say, again... Well, stress, I know that wasn't exactly it, but going through a cancer journey is obviously a very stressful thing, and if we are stressed, that alone can mess with our blood sugar. So I often say If you could eat zero sugar, you could be, you know, have this quote unquote perfect diet and still have imbalanced blood sugar. So when the body is being stressed, it ca- we can have this blood sugar rollercoaster happening. So what do we do for our stress? How do we support our nervous system? That's huge. So, you know, when people are undergoing chemotherapy, they're oftentimes, you know, the body is being stressed. Same thing with the, um, the steroids. You know, that is kind of a known driver of blood sugar dysregulation, right? And so, um, that's a tricky one, right? Because it's kind of can be used as a pre-med for chemotherapy. After, sometimes if somebody is really, like, bouncing a- against the walls during treatment, they might be able to lower that dose, you know, in case the nurses will allow them to drop the dose a little bit so they're not as stimulated. Stimulation, cortisol equals blood sugar rising. The body has a built-in system to give us energy. Where are we gonna get that? From glucose.

Ivelisse Page 13:22

Yeah. Yes. Goodness.

Easy Wins Post Meal Movement

Ivelisse Page 13:25

So if someone wanted to start simple- Yeah you know, you're like, you know, people say, "Don't stress, don't stress." Yeah. It's, it's easy to, you know, to hear those things, but practically-

Jen Nolan 13:35

Mm-hmm

Ivelisse Page 13:35

what is one small habit you'd recommend to someone trying to help stabilize their blood sugar?

Jen Nolan 13:42

Yeah. And I wouldn't ever say don't stress, because of course we'll have stress.

Ivelisse Page 13:47

Yes, yes.

Jen Nolan 13:47

And how do we re- what tools do we have in the toolbox to sort of regulate a little bit so we can calm, calm our nervous system? I think that's important. So breath. Movement, I think, is one of my favorites. So post-meal movement, even 10 minutes, that's been shown to help lower our blood glucose levels so beautifully. It doesn't need to be long. It can be a 10-minute walk. It could be a walk around the block. It could be walking around the house. It's just to move after you eat, um, i- it, whatever you need to do to move. There i- there are folks that might not be very mobile, and for them, I would say... Or if they're, you know, they've eaten lunch and then they've got to get back to their computer, their work. I don't know if you've ever heard this, but you can pump your calves while sitting, and that motion, so like you're in high heels, flat, high heels, flat, and that can help you balance your blood sugar. So it helps drop it. Our muscles are a glucose sponge. So when we engage our muscles, they soak up that glucose. It's a beautiful thing Right? If we're not moving, if we don't use that glucose, it will be stored as fat in the body.

Ivelisse Page 15:05

Mm.

Jen Nolan 15:06

And then we have that store for later when we need it. But sometimes we have more than we're able to use.

Ivelisse Page 15:13

Yes. Yes. And so I'm actually doing those little pumps now as we're sitting. Uh, I ate before we got on the podcast. I'm like, oh, I need to move. I'm gonna move here as we're sitting.

Blood Sugar Friendly Breakfast

Ivelisse Page 15:29

Can you, uh, walk us through what a blood sugar friendly breakfast looks like and why breakfast tends to set the tone for the rest of the day?

Jen Nolan 15:37

Yes. I can. And I think that, you know, again, here we are, we hear a lot about people that might skip breakfast. I don't think that everyone needs to eat at 6:00 AM or right when they wake up. Um, some people do better than others, it just depends on them, their body, their genetics. However, I do think that starting with a more protein rich breakfast in the morning, that oftentimes is more savory than sweet, and people don't love hearing that so much. However, that is a really helpful thing. So if your body's getting something sweet, sometimes it turns on that craving cycle, so you're like, "Ooh, what's next? What's next?" If you can have something savory, so I would... You know, I'm a big fan of as many greens as possible and veggies. So it could be an egg scramble, some really great farm fresh eggs, um, cooked in, depending on the person, maybe you're cooking it in, um, avocado oil, maybe you're cooking in grass-fed butter or ghee, um, depending again on the person. And then really great eggs, scrambled, plenty of salt, other herbs, and I chop up a ton of greens, throw those in, maybe mushrooms, um, some avocado on the top to get that fat. Because remember, fat, fiber, and protein, they all help balance blood sugar. They help with satiety. That protein is going to help bring us to the next meal so we're not grazing through the rest of our day. If somebody sits down and they eat all carbohydrate, right? So maybe they have some sweet yogurt and they have a bunch of berries. We've talked about this too. A shake that's full of fruit. There's no protein in it, there's no fat in it, and all of a sudden you get this almost like sugar bomb. It's very sweet, it's yummy, and then 20 minutes later, an hour later, people are hungry again. So protein in the morning I think is probably numero uno. first thing Friday That's amazing Yeah, of course

Ivelisse Page 17:46

Yeah. I think a lot of people think, oh, but a, a smoothie is healthy and, or chia seed pudding is healthy- Yeah but it's actually causing your insulin to spike. Yeah. And so I love that tip about adding protein. And I've noticed too that by increasing my protein, um, that has also helped, with reducing the fat that's stored and also not being hungry. Like, I really am not hungry in between meals. I rarely snack because of that. Mm-hmm. So I love that tip.

Jen Nolan 18:14

That's good. Yeah, it's good.

Believe Big 18:16

We hope you are enjoying this episode with Jen Nolan from Remission Nutrition. And here's something exciting. You can catch Jen live at the Integrative Health Symposium on October 17th at the Sheraton in Towson, Maryland, in person or virtual. She's just one of the incredible speakers joining us for a full day packed with real-world strategies in integrative oncology, functional medicine, and wellness. If today's conversation resonates with you, this is your chance to learn even more from Jen and other leading experts. Reserve your spot at believebig.org under the Events tab. We can't wait to see you there!

Food Order and Sweet Treats

Ivelisse Page 18:59

So what, um, you know, walk us through, like, how important is the order we eat food? I've heard that too. Like- Mm-hmm and does that really make a measurable difference?

Jen Nolan 19:09

I mean, yes, from my understanding and the research that, some of the research that's out there, it can really help to sort of, um, start with fibrous veggies, maybe with some apple cider vinegar. That's kind of a bonus. That can really help with blood sugar regulation, digestion. And then you eat your meal, and if you're going to have something starchy, say it's some sweet potato or a grain or something like that, that can be... it's oftentimes best to have that sort of after m- after the meal. So what I would personally do is, um, I might have my salad sitting here, and then I, uh... that's how I eat anyway. I've got a big salad, and then I've got some protein. If I have some sweet potato, I would have that on my plate, and that might be saved for last. It's almost like dessert. So that can be a great way. If you're going to have something like a sweeter treat, I would always have that after a meal as true dessert, as opposed to an hour or two later. So sometimes you'll have s- you'll see folks, they'll have a dinner, and then they'll have their dessert. Like, they'll have a little dish of ice cream or something with TV an hour later, and that can be rough on the blood sugar. So if you're going to have a sweet thing, right after a meal because the food in that meal, the fat, the protein, the fiber, is going to help blunt that sugar load to the body.

Ivelisse Page 20:37

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Intermittent Fasting Done Right

Ivelisse Page 20:39

And I know that, like, meal timing, you know, also plays a role, but-

Jen Nolan 20:43

Mm-hmm

Ivelisse Page 20:43

you know, we hear so much about intermittent fasting. Mm-hmm. You know, is intermittent fasting helpful or harmful for blood sugar balance, particularly someone who's overcome cancer?

Jen Nolan 20:53

Yeah. I think it can be quite useful. Every single person is an individual. We watch labs. We see how they feel. And I think that there's a big sort of, there's a lot of people out there thinking that intermittent fasting has to be extreme, sort of like what I said earlier. So if you are doing a 13-hour fast- You're still intermittent fasting. That's amazing. So if you start, you know, with your breakfast, you eat a, you know, three square meals a day, right? Like go back to the way things were. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, all balanced, and then you don't eat for about, if possible, it would be great three to four hours before, you know, between dinner and bedtime. That's a lovely rule of thumb. And then you would fast all the way till the next day, and that is beautiful. That's a really great piece of advice for anyone. And then we can sort of lean into some, a little bit more fasting for some people. Um, and we can-- even if it's once a week, maybe we stretch it a little longer. That can be really helpful for blood sugar regulation. I see that a lot. It works. But when somebody's doing, like I said before, these extreme fasts every single day, I see it not working so well, and the hormones can get kind of messy

Ivelisse Page 22:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah

Jen Nolan 22:16

Be stressful, right?

Ivelisse Page 22:18

Yes.

Fixing the 3PM Crash

Ivelisse Page 22:19

Yes. I also see or hear from individuals that they get this, like, 3:00 PM energy crash every day. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So what's usually going on, and how can they course correct that?

Jen Nolan 22:31

Yeah, I think a lot of people have that. And kids, like I've said, I've asked a lot of people, and it's just this really common time of day. So couple of things what I would have them start to do is have that protein-rich breakfast. I would have them work on that 13-hour fast, brilliant, and try to minimize snacking. So if we graze throughout the day, that was nutrition advice for a while, to eat frequently, smaller meals. While appropriate for some people, um, for most people, no. So try to not graze throughout the day. Eat your three balanced meals where you have protein, fat, carbohydrate in each meal, and then, um, start to pull out the snacks. Okay? So we start to do that. And what I usually ask folks is, like, when are you feeling the most hungry? Is it between breakfast and lunch, or is it between lunch and dinner? And try to maybe we keep that snack in between wherever they're more hungry, and we just kind of work toward that. It's a really beautiful thing that happens. People feel so much more energy. They don't end up having that crash. Their brain is clearer. They're cruising through the day. And then at night they also can... If they cannot eat in the evenings after dinner, that can have a massive impact on their sleep, their sleep quality, and then the next day they feel better. So we start going in this good sort of direction rather than this like, uh-oh, you know, kind of direction that, that's spiraling the other way. So yeah, it's great. Mm-hmm. It makes a huge difference.

Ivelisse Page 24:10

Yes.

Sustainable Habits and Sugar

Ivelisse Page 24:11

Yeah. You know, for someone listening to all of this, it can, it can feel maybe overwhelming, right? Mm-hmm. Um, or restrictive.

Jen Nolan 24:19

Yeah.

Ivelisse Page 24:19

You know, how, how do you help clients build habits that are sustainable rather than one more thing- Yeah you know, to be concerned about?

Jen Nolan 24:27

Yeah. Well, I often, again, start with those foundational things, and I meet every single person wherever they are. So if somebody's feeling overwhelmed, slow it down. Make small changes. So oftentimes, and you know this about me, I give these long reports and I'm like, "Okay, pick three things. What are three things we c- you can work on between now and the next time?" We meet. Because if you try to do everything, it just doesn't work, and I don't think that's helpful, right? It's just the overwhelm. What does that do? It stresses our, us out. Cortisol goes up and so does our blood sugar, so it doesn't work. So I think small changes are really important. If I had a magic wand, I would... And I know it sounds strict, but I would start really, like, magic wanding sugar out of a lot of diets because sugar increases cravings. We want more of it. We have a little bit, we want more. It's, that's what's happening. Blood sugar rises. We have a c- a really sugary thing, our blood sugar goes up, and then it comes crashing down, and what are we gonna reach for? Sugar again to bring us back up. It's just what happens. So I think that the sugar piece is big for me. Um, yeah. And just start small. Start picking things that work for you

Ivelisse Page 25:50

Yeah, and I love that you do that. I, I know you've done that for me, and I really appreciated that you also worked alongside foods that I liked. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes people feel that when they have to alter their diet, oh my goodness, I'm gonna be eating things I don't like. But no, you, you found ways to incorporate favorite foods and favorite things to- Yeah make it something that could be sustainable. So, so I really appreciated that.

Craving Crushers

Ivelisse Page 26:14

Yeah. And I know it can also be difficult for someone coming off of sugar, and h- what are some things or some tips that can help curb those cravings when you're in that moment of craving? Like, okay-

Jen Nolan 26:29

Yeah

Ivelisse Page 26:29

I'm cutting out sugar, and as soon as you say you cut out sugar, you want sugar. I

Jen Nolan 26:33

know.

Ivelisse Page 26:33

So how, how do you practically... You, you're getting a craving. What are, like, three things you can do to- Mm-hmm to curb those cravings so that you don't dive into that sweet treat?

Jen Nolan 26:46

Yeah. I think that I would use something else, like even fruit, right? Berries, something like that with maybe some, if people like coconut, like coconut cream. You've got some fat with the berries. The berries are nice and sweet. That's one thing, and then cinnamon. Cinnamon is one of my favorites. It has a little bit of a sweet taste, and it also is known to help drop blood sugar. Yeah. So that's really cool. So that's one thing. It's like ch- giving yourself something else that might take care of that craving. Protein, too, can drop a craving. Hydration is huge. So maybe you make yourself an iced tea, right? Like a nice hibiscus ice- iced tea. It's pretty. It's gonna, you're gonna be doing something, and it, it feels good. Um, the other thing would be to do something different. Do something else. Go for a walk. Call someone. Pick up a book, you know. Like, that's the behavioral part. Otherwise we just, we're in this craving, and we're just thinking about it, thinking about it, wanting it more and more and more because we were told we can't have it.

Ivelisse Page 27:56

Yeah. Those are great tips, really great tips.

One Change and Self Compassion

Ivelisse Page 27:59

Mm-hmm. So if someone is listening today and wanted to start this week, you know, what's the one sustainable change you'd tell them to focus on first, and then how would you encourage them to give themselves grace as they build that habit?

Jen Nolan 28:13

Yeah. I think that self-talk is, um, really detrimental unless it's positive self-talk. So I think that's huge. Like, don't beat yourself up. We're human, we're just doing the best we can. And I would say if there's, you know, it kind of depends on who I'm talking to, but one of the big things that I see is a common sort of habit that I'm oftentimes, "Okay, let's try this one first," that would be eating at night. Because again, it gets out, you know, it closes that eating window a little bit. It helps with sleep. When we sleep, we do better. When we sleep well, our blood sugar is already gonna be regulating. So that one habit can be really helpful, and again, it's finding those things to have in the evenings or those things to do in the evenings. If you go out for a nice evening walk, you will likely not be wanting that sweet thing later on or that snack in general. It's magical.

Ivelisse Page 29:16

It really is. I, you know, Jimmy and I started that habit, uh, I think after you had shared that with me, uh, a while back. And it's just, not only is it a great time of connection, we leave our phones behind, and then after dinner- Mm-hmm we just go for a walk around the neighborhood and yeah, we feel better, we connect, and we don't get the cravings that we used to because of that. Yeah. I agree. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Well, Jen, I am just been so grateful for your time today. Y- you know, what you've shared, uh, uh, I know will be impactful for many people who are struggling to regulate their blood sugar level. And I am very excited too to hear about your topic on an- anti-cancer foods- Yeah and also the new food pyramid at the symposium. So thank you so much for joining us today, and also at our symposium. We're just so grateful for all that you do for the patients that we serve. So thank you.

Jen Nolan 30:12

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Joy.

Ivelisse Page 30:23

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