The Lion Within Us - Leadership for Christian Men
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The Lion Within Us - Leadership for Christian Men
555. Crafting Words That Lead With Will Anderson
Words have power—perhaps more than we realize. Speaking with Will Parker Anderson, Senior Editor at Penguin Random House's Christian division, we dive into the transformative potential of putting pen to paper as believers. Will shares how his journey from pastoral ministry to publishing has revealed a profound truth: writing isn't just for "professional authors." The most impactful written words in his life weren't bestsellers but personal notes—his mother's scrawled hospital bedside message and an encouraging letter from an elderly church member that still resonates decades later.
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Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, meet episode time. Let's get right into it, okay. So for this week we're in the book of Philippians, chapter two. Just one verse though, verse seven. It says but emptied himself, rather by taking the form of a bond servant and being born in the likeness of men. So, guys, we spent a lot of time unpacking that verse at length in our spiritual kickoff episode.
Chris Grainger:Ok, so go back into your podcast feed. Just one back. You'll get that one and again if you enjoy the spiritual kickoffs the SKOs, what we like to call them. We do those Monday through Friday within our line, within this community, and this is all part of behind the scenes exclusive content and the great part is for the SKOs, we give those away for free. So just head over to the lionwithinus and get started with your daily spiritual kickoff account. Get all that stuff. Set up subscription so that you can get in and get that content. When we create it and again, monday through Friday, we go live, we share it and if you can't make the live stream, the recordings are there for you, so you may be encouraged by that.
Chris Grainger:All right, so again today, will Parker Anderson. I'm super pumped to have him with us. So he's the senior editor of Penguin Random House's Christian division. Okay, so it's the division of Penguin Random House. That's hard to say three times real fast, right, but seriously, that's one of the biggest publishers in the world, fellas, and he works specifically in the Christian Division. He has a podcast. He's also the founder of the Writer's Circle, but he's really helping us with this conversation today, sharpening our minds around the skills that we can use all of us as guys to to put words to paper that are going to make an impact. Okay, so he's got a background. He was 15 year years in pastoral ministry, nonprofit work. Uh, he's done a lot of stuff. He's working with folks from the chosen and the gospel coalition dwell Bible app. He's done all. He's done all those types of things. Uh, he's got a. He's a young family man. He's got two young kids no three young kids.
Chris Grainger:rather married, lives out in California, so we just had a really good conversation around taking the skills that God has given each and every one of us uniquely and how do we utilize that to glorify him. So, hopefully, enjoy this conversation with Will Parker Anderson.
Will Anderson:Well Will. Welcome to the Lion Within Us, man, how are you doing today, hey Chris? Thank you for having me. I'm doing well.
Chris Grainger:Yeah, it's a beautiful morning and excited to be here, absolutely so looking forward to the conversation with you. Before we go dive into what we're going to talk about, maybe share with our listeners something fun about you that maybe not many people know about.
Will Anderson:Oh, wow, okay Well, I'm assuming most of your listeners don't know me at all. I'm a father of three and they're all five and under Our house is a little chaotic, in the best sense of the word. I'm a drummer. I've been playing drums since middle school and I'm now 38. So it's a lot of years of playing in different bands, and probably my favorite band, or one of the favorite bands I've ever been a part of, we were called the Appalachian Sons and we were like a bluegrass country rock hybrid. That's the best I could do to describe it. It was fun, it was really fun, and it was totally did not fit our age demographic, because I was in college at the time. So we'd play at these metal shows and different venues and, just, you know, bring out our mandolin, our fiddle player, and it was just, it was a ton of fun.
Chris Grainger:Are there anywhere we could go get some samples of that man?
Will Anderson:I got to hear this yeah, that's a sore subject because we never recorded most of our songs. I think there's one track that maybe I could send you, and then we have a really bad recording of a live show, but it was cool. Yeah, we had three part harmonies so I would sing from behind the drums and then we had two front men who sang and it was just incredible. Yeah.
Chris Grainger:That's awesome man, that is awesome Well if you find that one, let me know. I'd love to hear that for sure, and I feel you on the three kids, man. So I have four, but two of them are under three. Oh, I see A three-year-old and a two-year-old. So, man, when they're that little bro, there's a lot going on in the house.
Will Anderson:Yeah, you know what it is, then that's it.
Chris Grainger:Constant chaos, man. Well, share more about your professional journey too. Get our listeners, let them get to know who you are and how we got connected.
Will Anderson:Absolutely so. I'm a senior editor at Waterbrook in Multnomah, which is a Christian publisher. We do mainly adult nonfiction and kids books as well, and we're part of Penguin Random House. So that's kind of an interesting thing about us. Penguin, if you're not familiar, is the largest publisher in the world, based in New York, actually around the world. So we're a Christian publisher but we're attached to this huge company and so we kind of get to play in both worlds. We get to work closely with pastors and leaders and influencers on the Christian side, but then we have the resources of this massive publisher in New York. So it's just, it's really fun.
Will Anderson:I love my job and before I was an editor I was a pastor for 12 years helping to plant churches here in Southern California and so went to seminary, did all of that. But I've always been a writer. I've always loved words, majored in journalism in college. So even as a pastor, I would be the person on staff who, anytime we needed a devotional something for the Lent season or Advent, I'd be the guy writing that content. Yeah, anyways, that's a snapshot of what I do.
Chris Grainger:That's awesome. So were you the writer for your band as well? Did you write the songs? Is that just something you've always leaned into?
Will Anderson:Yeah, I appreciate you asking that, chris, because as a drummer, drums is the most fun instrument but you often get forgotten. It's not like being the front man. So actually, yes, I would say in every band I've ever been a part of, I wrote maybe 90% of the songs and the lyrics, the melodies, and what was so fun about that was it's kind of similar to what I do as an editor. Honestly, I'd be writing songs that were way out of my vocal range, but because I got to play with some really talented folks, it's like they took what I created and they could execute it with excellence, you know, and that was very rewarding. So it's just like editing I'm taking the talent that these writers have and I'm helping to elevate it.
Will Anderson:People may not pay attention to the drummer or the editor. It's background work. It's supportive work to the drummer or the editor. It's background work. It's supportive work. But because of the work I do, the end product, whether it's a song or a book, ends up being that much better and I get a ton of gratification from that. It's super rewarding Once you get over the fact that no one I remember in the bands I was in, people would often say to the singer like, oh, you wrote that song, it was so good and you know sometimes that stings to do that more background work. But I think God's taught me a lot through that and helped me to appreciate like the impact it's having, whether or not you know my name is credited or not.
Will Anderson:So, that's a battle we all struggle with, I think.
Chris Grainger:Well, I'm super curious to the work you're doing. You're working with all these different Christian content creators, so it sounds like it's a division of Penguin Random House. Is that how the structure set up?
Will Anderson:Yeah, that's the exact term we use. So we used to be what is called, in publishing, an imprint, which is like a brand If a company has different brands. You know, Ping Random House has hundreds of what we call imprints has recognized that Christian content is selling and a lot of people are interested in faith-based content. So they recently created a new division called PRH Christian, and that gives us even more resources and flexibility to meet our unique market. Resources and flexibility to meet our unique market Because Christian publishing is different from a lot of other genres. For instance, a lot of what we're trying to do is reach churches. A lot of the books we publish. The way we're pitching it is hey, if your church reads this book, you have a 10-week series now that you can go through and pastors find that helpful. So we just think differently about how to get books into the world and there's a massive, massive market and God uses that to get words that edify and encourage out into the world. So, yeah, that's sort of how we think about books.
Chris Grainger:That's super cool and I'm just curious because I've seen it. I've seen a big shift too, because you should to be. When you thought about Christian content and books and things, some, some of it was like this Christian content is terrible, but then now you have like the chosen. I feel like has really shifted so much. So many people. They're like wait a minute, that's Christian. I'm like, yeah, that's Christian content. Right, so it can be really this incredible thing and that's translating into the new books and a lot of these books are becoming more adopted into the secular workforce and stuff like that. So I'm just curious, what have you're seeing? I mean, what some of the bigger projects you've worked?
Will Anderson:on that, have you seen? Take that to the next level. Yeah, you know, that's a good point and I agree not to be overly critical, but sometimes Christian media, you know, especially films, are comparable to like the Hallmark channel in quality. And I was just at a conference where Dallas Jenkins was a speaker, the creator of the Chosen, and I was really impressed with his humility, how raw and honest he was about even his past failures as a filmmaker. And of course, then to celebrate what the Chosen has been able to accomplish as a series is just unbelievable. So but yeah, I'd say what I'm seeing in Christian publishing, one trend that's noteworthy authors like John Mark Comer and John Tyson, and an author I work with well, I work with John, but then Rich Viotis as well, tish Harrison Warren you know some of these writers.
Will Anderson:They're returning to these ancient practices, concepts like Sabbath, things that maybe 10 years ago would have felt really dusty and antiquated. The younger generations are flocking to these disciplines, these practices, whatever you want to call them, and I just find that fascinating. You know we typically associate youth with throwing off the system, wanting to break out of the mold, but we're actually returning to some of these historical church practices and I think part of why it's resonating. Well, there's so many factors, but one is really gifted authors who know how to transmit on the frequency of Gen Z or how to speak to millennials and I love in publishing how God raises up writers and communicators in every age that are uniquely positioned to speak to this moment. So they're saying old truths in new ways and we laugh sometimes because the life cycle of books is very short. If you look back 20 years, even at what book covers look like you just laugh and you're like this is so obsolete now and, um, it's humbling as a writer to realize that you know your words.
Will Anderson:Um, they can still have an impact for decades, of course, but, um, a book that looks cool now is not going to look cool in 10 years, 20 years. But God continually raises up writers to speak to the moment, and I find that beautiful. So, for anyone who feels like God's given them a message but it's already been said before by so many people, so many times that's actually okay, because maybe what God is desiring to do through you is to speak to a specific group of people at a specific point in time that you are uniquely gifted and positioned to reach, and I just see that happening over and over.
Chris Grainger:For the Gen Z. Let's just kind of pick at that a little bit. Are there any themes that you've seen with that demographic?
Will Anderson:that really seems to resonate the best yeah, I have a huge heart for gen z because I hang out with them often. So at my church there's a couple you know now, they're in their mid-20s actually but I started hanging out with them when they were 18 19, just mentoring them, mentoring them. And what I love about Gen Z that's very different than millennials, which is what I am is that they're actually hungry for direction. They're humble, they're receptive, they want to be told how to live, they want to be given handholds. Whereas I feel like millennials we're a little bit more arrogant, like don't tell me what to do, we can figure it out ourselves. Gen Z are much more unsure of themselves and that translates into often humility. You know, negatively it looks like timidity and apathy, but a beautiful.
Will Anderson:I think it's a book called iGen that I read, which no one calls it iGen, but it's a great book, and this was a point the author was making is that if you come alongside Gen Z and they know they're supported and they know that it's safe to fail man, they will become some of your best employees, just people to be around because of how receptive they are. And so I think, when it comes to publishing, yeah, gen Z are looking for those books that are like hey, here's how. If you're single and you want a date, here's what you should do. If you really long to be married in your singleness, here's what to think about. Here's some things to pray. So real, practical, tangible next steps.
Will Anderson:I see that generation flocking to those topics. And then what we already talked about with spiritual formation yeah, they're looking for. Show me what it looks like to follow Jesus. Like get specific. You know, I remember I was at a coffee shop with one of the 20 something guys I mentor and he just asked such a simple question, but such a good question. He's like how do you pray? Will Like what do you do? And he's a mature believer. He serves like crazy in the church. He has integrity in his dating life. He's a financial advisor already, so career's going off. But that's a great example of how hungry the generation is and just how willing they are to receive advice from trusted voices.
Chris Grainger:Man. That's incredible. Will Well, guys, we're going to take our first break. We'll be right back. I've got something big to share.
Chris Grainger:We're making a major shift because we know the battle is real and it's time more men had access to the support they need. For too long, guys have been trying to carry the weight alone pressure at work, tension at home, wounds from the past in a world that demands strength but offers no place to rest. We see it, we've lived it, and that's exactly why we built our community. It's a stronghold, a place where warriors can find rest, truth and a band of brothers standing beside them. And starting now, we're making it easier than ever to step in. We've lowered the barrier to just $15.99 a month. That means, for less than the cost of a drive-thru lunch, you can join a brotherhood that's centered on Christ and built for growth. Inside you'll find access to our daily spiritual kickoffs every Monday through Friday, our Lion Lunches, our Bible studies, our Friday Forge gatherings all that and so much more. Every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone. If you've been waiting for the right time to jump in, this is it. Go to thelionwithinus and join the community and see for yourself what happens when iron truly sharpens iron.
Chris Grainger:We'll just kind of point at that theme of hungry and we were talking before we hit recording that you know we got I got the lion, we're able to get connected with the U version and I see this year they're anticipating and it changes, but they're saying maybe October, september, october they're going to hit a billion downloads of that app and when you start thinking about those numbers, it's crazy. So I feel like there's just there's this which is cool for them Great, it's growing, but the hunger it seems to be for people to consume God's word, it's just, it's almost like it's greater than ever. I don't know about this. There's definitely something out there around people wanting to be connected to the truth and to something solid, and I don't know if that's what you're seeing or not, but I know you've worked with YouVersion too. I'd love just to get your insights on some of what you're seeing, seeing or not, but I know you've worked with YouVersion too.
Will Anderson:I'd love just to get your insights on some of what you're seeing. Absolutely so part of a privilege of being at Penguin Random House is we have folks that mine data like you wouldn't believe and put together these just power-packed presentations on publishing trends, topics people are looking for across all Christian publishing, not just us and one thing that's emerged in the last few years is that Bible sales, to your point, are way up. Like people are buying Bibles like crazy.
Chris Grainger:So if you look I didn't realize that. Okay, wow, yeah.
Will Anderson:From like 2020 until now. It may have fluctuated a little in the last five years, but the overall trend is up and to the right. So, yeah, Bible sales are up. You mentioned YouVersion and that's a great way for authors, speakers, thought leaders to connect with a massive audience. But that app is just blowing up. People are consuming devotionals. They love the reading plans. People were so tethered to our phones that I think YouVersion has stepped into that gap and really provided something amazing. I would also add Dwell Bible app, if folks aren't familiar, is an incredible one. That's unlike YouVersion. It's completely tailored around like auditory listening to the Bible, so they just do a really good job with the listening experience. But, yeah, we're just seeing surges across the board in interest in scripture and I celebrate that.
Chris Grainger:That's awesome man. That is incredible. Well, I mean, walk us through. You know some of the the more the projects that you get the most excited about lately. What's what's been, what's what's? What are the ones that you've been diving into? That's kind of got your juices flowing.
Will Anderson:Yeah, so many, so many. I love creating things and I think that's why I love music and that's why I love writing. I would even add, with ministry, I love new initiatives and crafting messages. So the projects that get me excited are, I think, when I'm working with a fellow creative, someone who has really developed a skill or a niche that it's just theirs to own, like you can see God's favor on their life.
Will Anderson:So a couple of examples there's a book releasing in September called Godly Ambition, and it's written by my friend Ruslan, who is a hip hop artist, a YouTuber, an entrepreneur, and he's explaining how, especially the younger generation, can cultivate their gifts in today's landscape and turn them into marketable skills for the glory of God, into marketable skills for the glory of God. So you got all these, like the hustle culture you know, saying you can make all this money with minimal effort. Here are the hacks and the tricks. Ruslan is more saying no, take your gifts, evaluate them, bring them before God and then see what good you can do, and he has tons of practical advice for people. But I just love the spirit of that book, and so it's. It's teaching people to use their time, talent and treasure for the kingdom. So that's one example.
Will Anderson:Another one I'm excited about is an author named John Tyson, who, who some of your listeners will be familiar with yeah, pastor in New York church of the city, and and he's writing a book. I can't speak to the topic yet because it hasn't been announced, but just on a topic that's really going to be a gift in our fast-paced world, and just so thoughtful, so theologically astute and also pastoral in his tone and so excited about that. Um, I could go on and on, but I just I love, like I said, people who have recognized where God's called them and they're running in that lane and I just get to come alongside and, uh, pour gas on the fire, really, so that's awesome, man.
Chris Grainger:I'm curious, though. I'm sure there's lots of listeners out there that they're not writers and maybe that thought of writing can be very intimidating, I know, for me to think that I'm a writer, it doesn't even sound right as a sentence, but anyway, I've gotten over that. But there are guys that are listening. I'm sure that are like man, there's no way I can write anything. You know, how would you encourage them? Why do you think there's such a benefit from, from a spiritual growth standpoint, for that, that writing process? I just I'd love to get your insight, because I mean someone who does this for a living. I'm sure you probably have go back to the days when you were first getting started, or or, or you have friends who were just give them some, uh, some, some words of wisdom here.
Will Anderson:Yeah, that's great, chris. I mean, the first thing I would say is it's okay if you don't like writing and no judgment from this editor and if writing feels like a chore or something that you loathe, then you can just own that and there's other ways that you can communicate. Today, a lot of people are oral communicators and doing what we're doing now, chris, would be more up their alley or turning on a camera, recording a reel or something, and that's OK and that's okay. However, I think there's a false distinction we make between quote unquote professional writers and everyday writers. In other words, if someone will think, if I'm not publishing a book, if I don't have a deal with a publisher, then I'm not a writer and I shouldn't write.
Will Anderson:And I would say writing is one of God's greatest gifts to us for a number of reasons. There are parts of scripture where God says hey, write this down. In fact, when God wanted to preserve his words and express his love for his people and his faithfulness and his plans for us, he wrote it down. He inspired people to write it down and we just talked about surging Bible sales. Well, that all speaks to God's heart. Writing is the way that he chose to preserve his words for us and as those made in his image. We can do so much good with our written words and we're so preoccupied with platform today and influence and building a brand that we get overwhelmed and I think we give up or we discredit ourselves. I can't tell you, truly, how many writers I meet and work with that I say, hey, did you think you'd write a book? And they're like oh no, my English teacher told me I sucked, you know, or so-and-so, said my grammar was terrible and that I should stop this. A lot of people have that story and yet God leads them to write, and I think it's a reminder that God delights in using the weak things of the world to shame the strong and the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and the same is true in writing. So, yeah, I work with some killer writers, for sure, who have really honed their craft, but I work with far more people who have really good ideas but are okay writers and hopefully that's encouraging for people to hear.
Will Anderson:But, publishing aside, the two pieces of writing that have probably impacted me more than any other did not come in the form of a published book. Me more than any other did not come in the form of a published book. The first was a little note scrawled on a notepad in an ICU in 2007. So I'll get personal for a second.
Will Anderson:My mom struggled with a three-year battle through cancer. Eventually she passed and I was a sophomore in college at the time got the call from my dad. He said hey, you need to fly home. I think this is the moment Mom's going home to be with Jesus. So I get on the plane, I go back home and when I get to the ICU I'm sitting by my mom's bed you know she's kind of asleep at the time and there's this little notebook sitting on the table beside her bed, and so I pick it up and, flipping through it, it's my mom's handwriting inside and I'm realizing oh, this is how she's been communicating for the last few days. Because of the oxygen mask is hard to hear her. She was very weak, and so I'm flipping through this and I come across a note from the day before and she had simply written I got to hang on until Will gets home, and I'll never forget that sentence. You know it is a expression of a mother's love and her desire to hang on until she could see me and essentially say goodbye, and that is one sentence written in this tiny notebook in the hospital. But yet those words were powerful. So that's one example. I tell that story because I think we got to remind ourselves you can use the written word to bless the people in your life, your friends, your family. I think note writing is a powerful, powerful way to bless people. That is so countercultural to how we communicate today, and an example of that.
Will Anderson:My second example is I grew up in this Presbyterian church where we had a ton of elderly folks and I'd written something for our church newsletter.
Will Anderson:How old fashioned does that sound, right?
Will Anderson:I think I was in like sixth grade and I wrote this little devotional and they published it.
Will Anderson:And this old guy named Jerry he was the bass in our little church choir I didn't even know him that well, but he writes me this letter and he's like well, I just read your piece and I just want to say I think God has given you the gift of teaching his word and I think he's going to use you in the kingdom in that way.
Will Anderson:And at the time I didn't think much of the letter, but I found it like a decade or more later and that note has just stuck with me for my entire life and he just. It probably took him two, three minutes to write it, but those words have resonated and just echoed through my heart for years and years and so long. Answer, chris, to your question. But I encourage every believer to take seriously how writing can, how God can use it in your life to bless people in simple ways. It doesn't have to look like landing a book deal or publishing your work. It can be simple, everyday stuff that makes a difference and your written words will outlive you and people will save those notes and they will change lives.
Chris Grainger:Yeah, I'm not sure. I guess the technology cell phones, I mean email, handwritten notes just they're just not really something that people do very often anymore. But I'd tell you one thing for the Mary got it at, that's out there listening to it they can save your marriage, marriage, they can definitely strengthen your marriage. Just taking a few minutes to you know a handwritten love note just think about the last time we were in a love note or something like that to your, to your spouse. Usually it goes away once they say I do, you know, uh so, but I mean there is power in that.
Chris Grainger:I mean in that note from your mom, bro, bro, I'm sorry that you went through that, but what a powerful testimony that right there by her bed, that you'll have forever.
Will Anderson:Yeah, absolutely, and I don't have that note. I wish I did, but I have it in my mind.
Chris Grainger:That's right. You know that's right. Well, guys, we're going to take a quick break. We'll come back and keep digging with Will. We're making a big change that I think you're really going to enjoy.
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Chris Grainger:So I'm going to shift a little bit on this Will, because I'm super curious about this and I did a Devo recently or study on the uh? U version and it's getting some attention but it didn't get the attention that I thought. But in the work, the, the, the work that you do, you know ai is out there now and you have all these ai, different types of uh uh in the education system has got its own battles and I'm super, super curious for you and the world that you're living in Do you see this as a, as a positive tool? Do you see this as a hurdle and a headwind? Are we going to be getting less and less authentic type of of of thought leadership from these?
Chris Grainger:You know, from writers, because it's a lot easier just to put a prompt and to kick out. You know, 30, 40,000 words potentially, words potentially, you know, with with something like with with an ai tool. And I, just for me, my writing coach that I've been working with for a couple years, he's like, look man, he's like, at the end of the day, less command, more reflect and and ai it doesn't write in reflective. So that's been where I try to go, but I'm super curious from you and seeing that, but that's been where I try to go. But I'm super curious from you and seeing that you see so much I'm sure coming in, has it started to impact the content and how do you see?
Will Anderson:this moving forward. Yeah, what a massive can of worms. Right the AI conversation.
Will Anderson:I'm probably what I would describe as AI agnostic or AI cautious at this point. I was in a coffee shop yesterday just working and I heard this side conversation over to the right and it's two people chatting it up and I just heard one of them say, yeah, writing AI prompts is an art form, and they just were going back and forth about how they create works of art using AI and I was good, I didn't say anything. Right, I wasn't that crazy guy in the coffee shop Like what are you talking about? No, but AI is so new on the scene I think we'd be naive to say that you can completely avoid it altogether, because it's literally being written into the code of every app. Every software Even I heard Logos Bible software the other day now has an AI search tool, and so a lot of that is useful.
Will Anderson:I think you know it's blurry. To me it's gray, but where I have stronger convictions, I think is around to critical thinking and, as you said, reflection and talking about what you've experienced and what God has done in your life. Here's the hard truth. Ai can probably write faster and with more clarity than most of us, and so that temptation to lean on it and to depend on it is going to be massive and most are going to take that route because it's the easier route. It feels like magic when you're sitting with chat GPT and you put in a prompt and it spits something out and then at the end of its response it gives you another prompt. It's like would you like this in a more forceful tone, a more apologetic tone or a more curious tone? And you're just like, oh my gosh, I wouldn't have even thought of that. Yes, give me those options. It's intoxicating and it really does feel like magic. And so I'll just be transparent.
Will Anderson:I have started using some AI never to write, but certainly to summarize, and part of my job as an editor is to write marketing copy and these pithy little summaries of books and we've started implementing some of that as a team. But there is a check in my spirit about it, because every time you use it, it is forming you. It is, I worry, atrophying my ability to think critically and creatively, and it's like anything Once you start leaning into what is effortless, then effort starts to feel like an inconvenience, and it's often in the creative wrestle and frustration and toil that our best thoughts come. It's in iterating and pausing, going for walks, sleeping on an idea, just giving it time to marinate, and that might be a good metaphor. Ai doesn't let you marinate on ideas, it just spits them out like fast food. And so, yeah, how it's impacting the industry is hard to say, because how do you identify something that was written by AI? I would actually say, because I'm an editor.
Will Anderson:I can tell, and usually the way that I can tell is when something is a little bit too. First of all, there's no grammatical errors, there's no spelling errors, but beyond that, it just lacks the personal story of the person writing. It feels really contrived or predictable or almost too polite in the way that it's written, and I'm like, yeah, this is not a real person, but I haven't encountered it a ton, because part of our contracts with authors is that they cannot use AI. They can use AI to ideate, but everything has to be at least rewritten in their own words, and it's kind of sad that we even have to qualify that Like the book you're writing has to be in your own words. Well, what else would it be in? Right? But that's the age that we're in, and so you know. I've listened to people who are believers and writing coaches who are so pro AI and they're literally saying stuff like you're crazy if you're not writing with AI. And then I have other friends, also believers, who are like no, this is actually a threat to the image of God in us and the fact that we are created to create this is sabotaging that. And yeah, it's just, it's a wild time. So I'm proceeding with caution and I think I've put personally boundaries around my own creative writing to say I'm not going to use ai for that. Um, I'm not even going to use it to ideate. Uh, like I heard this statement, that's just been a pebble in my shoe ever since, for the last few weeks.
Will Anderson:This guy said my conversations with AI are better than any conversation I've had with another person in terms of brainstorming, ideating. Like hey, point out the gaps in my thinking. Like hey, point out the gaps in my thinking, argue with me AI LLM. He's like second to none. I'm going to do my thinking with AI and my you know, I don't know reflecting with people or something like that. I just think that's wrong. I think that's. I don't think he's wrong that AI comes back with creative or helpful stuff, but I think that does something to your soul the moment you say I prefer this LLM over a real person, another image bearer, I think, I can't quite name it, but there's something there that I think is actually quite dangerous and atrophying to our spiritual life. I'm tempted to say I would rather have a mediocre conversation with a person than a sharp, instant conversation with an LLM, and maybe there's a balance between the two, you know, but that's where I'm at.
Chris Grainger:And that's really, that's really good. And I think you know, the more I think about the AI too. I mean I think it could be used to your point marketing content, emails and trying to not sound stupid for your boss, that's probably you know. That's use some AI there.
Will Anderson:We all need to not sound stupid. That's a good goal to have. Yeah, there you go.
Chris Grainger:But I just think it's just like everything else out there. I mean, a cell phone could be used for good, it can be used for evil. I think the evil one's going to have his hands in it and we just have to be aware as Christians, in particular for your point, if you feel like that conviction, that stumbling block, that little pebble in your shoe, like you mentioned, that's the Holy. To me, that's the Holy nudge.
Will Anderson:Yeah, well, one thing that's real concerning about AI is that it's so competitive Companies are like we either implement this or we get left behind. We either adapt or die and because of that, we don't actually know behind the scenes how much of this is being coded into everything, and we see certain signs of it. But I'm a big fan of Neil Postman and amusing ourselves to death, and I'm not what is called a luddite. You know, like anti-technology, kind of conspiratorial about it all, and people are talking that way like apocalyptic AI is going to turn on us and wipe us out. I mean, those conversations are happening at the New York Times.
Chris Grainger:Mm-hmm.
Will Anderson:But I think Postman's point is every new type of technology comes with a trade-off, and the problem arises when we don't even consider the trade-off and when we mindlessly adopt something. And, my goodness, have we seen that with smartphones and social media? Jonathan Haidt's book the Anxious Generation is a pivotal book of our time, where it's like there's something magical and addicting about our phones. But have we considered the trade-off? And so now there are counter movements, like the light phones or the dumb phones or whatever you want to call them. These are not 60-year-old curmudgeons using these light phones and throwing away their smartphones. These are 20 somethings, and that tells you something, right?
Will Anderson:So I think with AI, the tension is we want to be thoughtful, but how can you? It's moving at warp speed, it's being not offered to us, it's being mixed into the glass we're already drinking and so it's in the air we breathe already, and at a rapidly accelerating pace. So that's the tension of it. You can choose if you want a smartphone. We're not going to be able to choose if we're using AI, because we're going to unknowingly use it. It's going to be incorporated into the apps we're using, and so I think the territory that we can defend and make a decision on, and apply some caution or some discernment, is our creative work, the work that you know. We choose the tools of our trade, that we choose the tools of our trade and I think we would all do well, especially as writers, even as communicators, to proceed cautiously.
Chris Grainger:There you go. Well, Will. Thank you for taking that rabbit trail there. I wanted to get your insights because I know this is the world you're living in, so that definitely was very encouraging and insightful. Yeah Well let's, let's, let's, transition to the lightning round. If you, if you're good with it, we like to have some fun at the end of the show and just some fun stuff to kind of wrap it up. So we'll start off something easy. So what's a hobby, what's something that you enjoy doing for fun?
Will Anderson:Yeah, well geez, I love anything outdoors, so I already mentioned music. Of course, I consider writing a hobby as well, even though it's my profession. But yeah, I love being outside. So hiking, camping, backpacking, just getting out into creation, camping, backpacking, just getting out into creation. I live in Orange County, california which is a bit of a concrete jungle. So yeah, just every weekend actually I have a couple hours that I'll go to this nature preserve. There's a creek that runs through it and these beautiful coastal oak trees, and that's my place.
Chris Grainger:That's awesome man, that's awesome Camp. That camping's gonna get interesting with them three little ones.
Will Anderson:so good luck, you know we have not embarked on a tent camping trip with them just yet. Our rule is diaper. People might find us a week for saying this, but we have to be out of the diaper phase before we embark on that dusty, hot, inattentive experience.
Chris Grainger:There you go, there you go. That's right, Take your time. Take your time. What's your favorite food? Go-to meal here? Ooh.
Will Anderson:Mexican food for sure.
Chris Grainger:Okay.
Will Anderson:I would break it into my favorite restaurants. So at Gabby's, which is a Mexican place out here, they have these shrimp enchiladas, and then my other favorite spot called El Ferrito, on this side of the country, we got good Mexican food, so sorry if you're there in North Carolina but, yeah, tons of things at El Ferrito, but they have carnitas which is like pork, it's amazing.
Chris Grainger:So those are some of mine Nice, awesome, awesome. So what about a superpower Will? So, if you could have a superpower, which one would you pick and how would you use it? Man?
Will Anderson:Oh geez, that's a hard one. I think, maybe because I have three kids. I think if I could just have endless energy, I would be grateful for that. Truly Like if I could get through a day without fatigue or a headache and I'm not saying my kids cause headaches, but just to feel like 100% every single day would be an absolute gift. I've I've had some health issues this year too, some setbacks, and so, yeah, I just I miss waking up and just going through a whole day without any kind of pain or tiredness.
Chris Grainger:Man, once you, once you get that age, bro, I mean you got to have that Tylenol smoothie just to get going. You know what I'm?
Will Anderson:saying yeah, that's right.
Chris Grainger:What about if you look over the last year? What did you spend too much time doing? We always try to be reflective here on the line, so anything that stands out over the last 12 months. But man, I wasted a lot of time here.
Will Anderson:Yeah, that's a deep one.
Chris Grainger:Hmm.
Will Anderson:I would say I spent probably too much time analyzing and worrying about possible options for our family, decisions we had to make and there are decisions we needed to make and wrestle with but I think I'm coming to terms with the beauty of constraints and limitations, in other words, saying I'm going to live in this place, I'm going to do this job, I'm going to invest in these people and see that as a gift, not a limit, and really put myself fully into all those people, places and activities, and so, yeah, that's probably what I'd say. You know, discontentment is such a slippery slope and I think I just probably spent too much time thinking about all the stuff I wanted to change rather than the opportunities I actually have here and now.
Chris Grainger:Fair enough, man, Fair enough. How about this one? When you think about God, what's your favorite thing about him? Just just first thing that comes to mind.
Will Anderson:His faithfulness. Yeah, you know, I have memories of praying as a middle schooler in my room and like the first time that I'd say I really heard from God. I was going through a tough time in seventh grade and just switched schools and God spoke to me in that moment. I only have maybe three or four of those moments in my life where I would say God just hit me with a phrase or an impression and I just can't believe that he's been there not just for my whole life but for all of eternity and he's been the same and he has spoken to his people in so many different ways. But just his constancy. When I look at my life, I'm like man. I've been all over the map up my life. I'm like man. I've been all over the map. Uh, I've been a fool so many times, I've been distracted. And he's just here for it, um, gently, lovingly, constantly. And so God's faithfulness is probably uh, I would add to that his patience.
Chris Grainger:They go hand in hand, yeah that's right, that's right, and let's flip it 180. What's what's your least favorite thing about the evil one.
Will Anderson:Wow, that's an interesting question. My least favorite thing about the evil one, I think probably that he plays a long game. In other words, he doesn't just want to wound us today, he wants to cripple us for the next 20 years. He wants to work into our psyche and even our physical bodies Shame and fear and hatred I mean, you name the vice Lust and he just wants to piggyback. He wants to hide away so that we don't see that this is actually flowing through our veins, and he wants to play those games where we're like, oh okay, I've grown, I'm past that struggle, and then he'll just throw us in a pit and, um, rub our face in it. So he, he plays ruthlessly and, uh, I think, yeah, god's teaching me, um, to take seriously how he sees me and to to trust those promises, uh, that scripture offers us, offers us and to surround myself with people who can remind me of those things as well.
Chris Grainger:Yeah, a hundred percent, brother, A hundred percent. Last question for you Will, when the lightning is, what do you hope the listeners out there remember the most from our conversation today?
Will Anderson:Hmm, I would hope that they take seriously the potential of God to use their words, whether they're written or spoken. Words are an incredible gift that God has given to us. It's one of the ways that we reflect his heart. He is a speaking God and all creation started through the words of God. They're dynamic and powerful and life-giving, and he shares some of that with us and says whoever you see today, whatever you do, whether you're writing an email or having a conversation over lunch or writing a letter or responding to criticism the words that we use either create life or death, and we think, as Christians, about being salt and light. Our words are one of the primary ways that we do that. Yeah, the world lacks words of life. They long for words of encouragement and kindness and truth, and so I'd say, maybe walk away and think about how you can wield your words this day for the glory of God and the good of others.
Chris Grainger:Amen, brother, amen. Well, where do you want to send the listener's will to connect with you, the wonderful work that you're doing and all the resources out there?
Will Anderson:Yeah, thanks for asking, chris. It's real simple. I send out a newsletter about how to use our words. Well, it comes out every Saturday, as well as a podcast where we really chop it up about writing and communication really chop it up about writing and communication Both of those things. If you just go to writer circleco, so writer circleco, you can sign up and, um, I'll, I send those resources out weekly, and so that would be an encouragement. Uh, just a way to sharpen your words. Um, if you want to grow as a communicator, that's where to go. Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that.
Chris Grainger:We'll make sure that's in the show notes where to go. Awesome, awesome, well, thank you so much for sharing that. We'll make sure that's in the show notes for you guys out there Will. Anything else you'd like to share today?
Will Anderson:No, chris, I appreciate this time with you and I love what you're doing with the line within. And, yeah, thank you for having me.
Chris Grainger:Yes, sir, buddy, it was an honor. Thank you so much, connor. Thank you so much. Most men are fighting battles. No one sees Strained marriages, silent wounds, pressure to lead without a place to rest. That's why we created our community To help build strength, sharpen and support brothers just like you. And now it's even easier to join than ever. We've lowered access to just $15.99 a month. Immediately, you'll get our daily spiritual kickoffs, our Bible studies, lion Lunches, friday Forge and so much more. Every man needs a stronghold and you don't have to fight alone.
Chris Grainger:Join today at thelionwithinus that's thelionwithinus and get started today. All right, fellas, I told you that was going to be a good one. So thankful for Will for showing up. So, look, question of the week I want you to think about is are you more focused on being seen than being faithful? We have to be thinking, be very thinking about this year, and Will talked about earlier in this conversation about how Gen Z's the one word which I thought was super interesting was around humility, and we have to think about what is that humility? How is that manifesting in our life, fellas? So hopefully you enjoyed that one. Yeah, if you enjoyed the conversation with Will, go check out his resources, and I highly encourage you to head over to the lionwithinus, that's the lionwithinus. Connect with us, fellas.
Chris Grainger:We have lots of ways, from our daily spiritual kickoff to our community and now our leadership masterminds, which I am so doggone, pumped up and excited about. This is what we're leaning in hard. We have some great ways that we're serving, that we're helping guys grow to be the leader that God intends them to be, but it only happens you only have access to it when you head over to the lion within dot us, and I'm gonna, you only have access to it when you head over to the line within that US. I'll be straight up the leadership mastermind is not for everyone. In fact, you can't just go get it. We have created a process where you have to submit an application or complete an assessment, rather, and after that assessment is complete, we will have a conversation just to make sure.
Chris Grainger:Because, look, this is for guys who are ready to lean in and to take their discipleship to the next level, who recognize. You know what. I need a personal board of advisors and I don't have that in my life. I don't have those guys. I have plenty of yes, men, but I don't have the guys who will actually hear me out, hear my heart and then help point me biblically to what God's called me to do. So this is what we've built the lion withinus is how you get it All right. So come back on Friday. We'll have our fun Friday episode. Look forward to hanging out with you guys, sharing some of those resources. There's the tips, the dad jokes, all the book of the week, all the fun stuff that we do and I hope you'll find some encouragement there. So have a great day, get after it, give us a rating and review and remember, keep unleashing the lion within.
