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621. Striving For The Faith With Alex Kocman

• Chris Grainger

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What if Philippians isn’t a collection of coffee-mug quotes, but a battle plan for ordinary believers to live on mission? We sit down with author and missions leader Alex Kocman to explore how Paul’s letter calls men to stand firm, speak truth with love, and lock shields as a church that shares real risks and real joy. From Philippians 1:27’s “striving side by side” to the practical charge to “do all things without grumbling,” we break down how weekday habits, public courage, and brotherly solidarity turn faith into action.

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Chris Grainger:

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, Chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, fellas, meet episode time. Let's get right into it, okay? So the scripture of the week this week is in the book of 2 Corinthians, the fifth chapter, and we're looking at verses 14 and 15. It says, For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died, and he died for all, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but him who died and rose on their behalf. Love that verse, guys. If you want to have that unpacked to give you some ideas on how you can simplify and apply it to your life, listen to the spiritual kickoff episode. It should be the one previous, just back in your podcast feed right there. And again, we try to do the spiritual kickoff. We don't try, we do the spiritual kickoff every day in our Lion Within this community. So if you enjoy the SKO episodes each week and you'd like to have a little more encouragement throughout your week, hey, check it out. Go to the LionWithin.us, sign up for the daily spiritual kickoff. It gives you access to our platform completely free. It's the way we just try to encourage guys, and also gives you access to our prayer request board. So you can come in, you can drop prayer requests, and I guarantee you every time someone drops a prayer request, which is daily, it happens all the time. They get prayed over, they get lifted up by a band of warriors who are ready to go to battle for you. So again, the lionwithin.us is where you'll find that at. Okay. All right, fellas. So this is a good one. This is got we brought in the author, Alex Kochman, to us uh for this conversation. He serves as the director of communications and engagement at ABWE. Okay, so he's really working to advance the global work of spreading the gospel through some strategic communication efforts. So uh he went to Liberty University, so GoFlames, a lot of fun talking about that. Uh he's a he's a writer, speeder, uh, speaker, author. Uh he's done stuff on sites such as like Nine Marks, the Ghost, the Gospel Coalition, Founders Ministries. So he's really trying to put a lot of his effort where uh the intersection with theology, with culture, and the mission. So he he's really bringing uh an interesting take on that. And we talked a little bit about today about this his new book, Striving for the Faith, The Journey Through Philippians for Life on Mission. And uh so we really had a lot of fun unpacking that. We we talked about several different areas, by the way, guys. We talked about areas so far as like how can we stand firm with the the sexual revolution that's happening all around us with LGTBTQ agenda, uh Planned Parenthood, all the stuff. How do we as Christians, man, how should we respond? What does that look like? And where do we go to get those reps at, okay? To actually get ready to be effective when we go out to have these conversations on behalf of the gospel for the kingdom, okay? So lots of practical stuff. Alex is a, he's from, he lives in York, Pennsylvania. He's got his wife, he's got four kids, he's got one on the way told me. So bit busy, busy guy. But hopefully you're gonna enjoy this conversation with Alex Kochman. Well, Alex, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing today, sir?

Alex Kocman:

Doing great on this Friday that we're recording. Thanks for having me on, Chris. It's a pleasure to be here.

Chris Grainger:

I'm excited to have you here for sure. And I always like to start the show kind of on a light note. So maybe tell us something fun about you, Alex, that not many people know about. Something fun about me, yikes.

Alex Kocman:

Uh man, you're putting me on the spot. I'm an avid guitarist. Um, I I happen to lead worship in our church. I don't give off the typical worship leader vibe. Um, I think my testosterone is probably higher than the average worship leader at a lot of evangelical churches. Hopefully, if I'm doing things right, it is. Um but uh I actually cut my teeth playing lead electric guitar. Um, and uh not not doing so much of that these days, but you know, that's a passion that I try, try to cultivate. Unfortunately, not a lot of luck at that. But you know, there's there's not a lot of free time lately. We've got four kids, we've got number five on the way. So um any spare moment I can find, though, to either sit down in front of a piano or with a guitar is a good day in my book.

Chris Grainger:

That's awesome. So a lead guitar player, so I got I mean, normally I save this towards the end, but I've got to ask you, so what's what's your favorite bands like when you're shredding? Who you who are you covering there?

Alex Kocman:

Uh that's a great question. I mean, I I I I my musical taste is kind of eclectic, but my musical style of playing um was probably the most influenced by, and this isn't probably who everyone would cite, but um I probably mastered every single guitar lick that I ever heard Keith Urban playing. Um Keith Urban was a big one. Stevie Ravon um was another huge one. Um, but uh that that's kind of what what informed my playing style. It's kind of you know, like a light country blues informed, uh, but I like to underplay instead of overplay, you know. Um that's me. Of course, I'm rusty now, though. But if I'm playing riffs and licks, it's usually one of those guys.

Chris Grainger:

All right. That now that's incredible. All right. So yeah, if you're you're hanging with uh Urban and Steve, Stevie Ray Vaughn, that's uh that that's saying something right there. So maybe you can send us a track or something we can put it in at the end of the episode. Well, share share with us our listeners that that don't know you just a little bit about your faith journey. You know, love, love to know a little bit about you, how you came to know the Lord, and what led you to this point.

Alex Kocman:

Of course. I um had the immense privilege of having a boring testimony, and it's the kind of testimony that I want all of my kids to have. I was blessed with a Christian upbringing and uh believing parents. Um, as happens to so many uh kids, though, when they get to be a certain age, a little bit of rebelliousness sets in, and the Lord brought me through some things and broke me in my teen years. Um, and out of that came a renewed commitment. Um, I finally submitted to receiving baptism. Um and the Lord gave me also out of that a desire for uh full-time ministry. And I didn't know what that would look like. Um, I knew a lot of people in college who uh at Liberty University in our biblical studies program, pastoral leadership program, you know, I my my daddy was a preacher, my granddaddy was a preacher, you know. I was born on the church altar. Like there was a lot of people that were very certain that they wanted to go into a particular type of ministry. I always had other interests. I was doing some marketing, some journalism, and then some ministry on the side, and I had some interest in missions as well, and I didn't know how those things would all sort of coalesce. And then um probably about eight or nine, uh actually nine years ago now, um, the Lord opened a phenomenal door of opportunity through ABWE to combine all of those different things that I had been doing in pastoral ministry, in marketing, communications. And so I have the immense privilege of serving with uh missions agency right now, helping local churches send and also helping to celebrate and serve missionaries by telling their story and doing so through all sorts of different media. So I feel like I'm breathing rare air. Um I wake up excited every single day to sink my teeth into that ministry, um, all by the grace of God. I was not the sort of person that had a natural inclination towards uh missions, evangelism. You know, I don't I don't actually like uh confrontation, generally speaking. I like to kind of, you know, play it nice and play it safe naturally, like a lot of us do. And as far as missions goes, you know, I wasn't a missionary on the field. And I was kind of that Christian kid in church that was like, Lord, don't let me go to Africa and don't let me be single. And so far, as as ill-conceived as that prayer is for many of us, uh, he hasn't sent me to Africa and I'm very much not single, as my wife can attest. So that's that's the road that we've been on, though, and um getting to serve um the Lord and and be a part of what he's doing among the nations, but to to do so from the position of a sender um and as a leader in the local church.

Chris Grainger:

That is awesome. I was laughing on the Africa thing because my wife, my she and I, we did a uh she went to Liberty by the way, Go Flames. So we're gonna go for right here with you. We're right here with you. And uh but we did a spiritual gift test actually last night. And uh it was funny because when it got to uh some of the the parts around you know missionary type work, she pulled up her phone and played that song, uh Please don't send me to Africa. It's a it's a funny, it's a it's a you know, it's like I will do, I'll be a deacon, I'll serve, I'll show, you know, I'll do everything I can, but please don't anyway. Uh that was funny when you said that. I'm like, that's kind of ironic.

Alex Kocman:

Well, the love, especially for someone in my role.

Chris Grainger:

That's right, that's right. Well, I definitely, your book, Striving for the Faith, you know, a journey through Philippians for the lifelong mission. I I really enjoyed working through this. And I maybe just kind of, you know, what does that mean to you? You know, why why Philippians, what led you to this? I mean, obviously, putting a work together like this, as someone who's an author myself, I know there's a lot that's involved in just writing and getting a book published, but what why do you think you know God put this topic on your heart?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, it actually started not with my initiative or idea. It actually started with something that another leader in our organization was doing, um, which was what what he called, and and other organizations have done something similar, um, our 938 prayer initiative. So, Matthew 938, pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into the harvest. That idea being that the nations, the mission field, are white for the harvest, they're ripe for the picking, and so we should pray that God in his sovereignty would raise up qualified gospel workers to be sent out into the world. And so um, every day at 9.38, the encouragement has been to set your alarm to pray for workers at 9.38 to be sent out among the nations. And so it started with that, and then uh out of that came the desire to build devotionals to accompany that. But that quickly for me took on a life of its own. And uh I think we're all drawn, hopefully, at some level as believers, if we know our Bible, we should be drawn to the book of Philippians. Some of the most quotable statements that the Apostle Paul makes are in the book of Philippians. So, on the one hand, it was an easy choice, um, but on the other hand, it was um difficult in that how do you do justice to what Paul is doing and how do you show the connectivity of the book, the continuous flow of thought. Um, he's not just trying to give a bunch of inspirational aphorisms. Um, he's really giving a practical, incarnated theology of mission for his readers. And the the biggest thing that was impressed upon me going through the book of Philippians was this book doesn't make any sense if the people that he was writing to uh weren't already about the work of mission, if they didn't have any skin in the game. So if a missionary sends a prayer letter to his supporting church back home and he's saying things like, Yeah, you guys know how it is, you guys are in the trenches with me, you know, we're partners in the gospel. Like the missionary isn't going to talk that way if those lay people really don't have skin in the game, if they aren't a part of the work of ministry in some sense, even if it's just through praying, through financial generosity. But Paul clearly saw the church in Philippi differently. You know, it's the only epistle where he doesn't really rebuke them for anything, he warns them about other people influencing them, you know, but it's not like Galatians where he comes out swinging against them or 1 Corinthians. Uh it he he really only has positive things to say about the church by and large. He tells a few of the ladies to get along with each other and bury the hatchet in chapter four. Um, so for me, you know, I'm someone who uh I've I've swung the pendulum either side of my life, you know, all the way from, oh, I'm so I feel so guilty about missions about evangelism. I can't even have a normal conversation with somebody without feeling, you know, guilty. Like I need to shoehorn the four spiritual laws into that conversation, all the way to this opposite extreme of apathy, where I'm not thinking about the eternal destiny of the people around me. What's that sweet spot where, like, okay, we're not all the Apostle Paul? Uh, not everyone is called to do the work of a public evangelist to the same degree and in the same sense. Um, but then also we are all supposed to own the mission and we're all supposed to feel when Jesus says in Matthew 28 that you know, go into all the world, make disciples. We're supposed to feel in some way like that's our job, um, that our job is to play into that broader purpose for Christ's people on earth. And so, what what does that look like for a lay person, um, not just a professional full-time Christian? And so that that really all came together in my mind to point me towards, you know, Philippians is the right place to spend. And I spent about a year working through that and and trying to mine out uh not just what's being taught here, because of course it's scripture and there's there's value in that alone, but also uh what does scripture say throughout the whole book, not just the memorable bits, but the whole book that says or implies something having to do with how the individual Christian is supposed to live on mission and to live with purpose. That was the project, and it was uh it was fun, it was stretching, uh, but it was edifying for sure.

Chris Grainger:

And you said you took a year of research to kind of go through it. Where where where do you think it was the it stretched you the hardest? I'm just curious as you as you wrestle through this, what was the hardest areas to unpack?

Alex Kocman:

Oh that that's a great question. I mean, uh writing anything is work. Um for me, I'm a creature of habit. So if I don't program it into my normal daily routine, it's not going to happen. So I I had to form a new routine to hold myself accountable to get that work done. Anyone who's an author will tell you uh more or less something similar. Uh I think for me, the biggest challenge, it it didn't even make it harder. In a sense, it made it easier. The the challenge was as I'm reading these things and writing these things, am I actually living this out? Uh one of the biggest things that impressed itself upon me was from chapter one, where Paul refers to the Church of Philippi um as being partners with him, both in the his imprisonment and the defense and confirmation for the gospel. Um, the word that he uses for fellowship there, obviously Koinonia. Um this is deep partnership. This isn't just um, you know, incidental, like, hey, we're we're workplace proximity associates, in the words of Ron Swanson, right? Like this is actual deep uh connection and synergy between him and them and realizing that the terms, you know, defense and confirmation of the gospel are legal terms. So what he's actually saying is, hey, Philippi, while I was on trial for my faith, while I was being dragged before this magistrate and this magistrate and having to give public testimony for why I was in these circumstances, you were willing to be associated with me then in those moments. And the the challenge of just asking myself, you know, if my pastor or if a missionary that we support as a church uh suddenly, you know, stood up to the drag queen story hour happening down the street and found himself in trouble with the legal authorities in our city and was all over the 11 o'clock news. There is that real decision point of the next morning when I'm at the water cooler at work. Hey, you go to that church, don't you? You know, Pastor So-and-so. There, I have a choice of whether or not I want to be associated with that gospel worker in the in his defense and confirmation of the gospel. So it's it's the challenge to me was not even just to be doing the work of the gospel, to also be willing to be associated with those that are taking the biggest risks. Um, you know, I say it's a challenge constantly, anyone who preaches or teaches knows like you should be measuring your life up against everything and recognizing I fall so far short of the standard uh that scripture sets. Um but in a in a way, uh it also made it somewhat easier um holding yourself accountable to work through scripture in that way, holding yourself accountable to to pray and apply the text, not just to check off your box and say, I read the Bible today. Um and even holding yourself accountable to teach it to others, that really gets you into this framework of application, of putting scripture to use. And so hopefully the volume is something that people can do that same thing with themselves. That's why every section ends with application, with specific prayer points for them to take what they've learned and read and now prayed at back to God and hopefully call down the grace that they need in order to be more effective on mission for the Lord. But you know, it was it was exciting, but it was a challenge in that sense to write.

Chris Grainger:

Amen to that. Well, you did a phenomenal job with it for sure, Alex. So we're gonna take our first break, guys, and come back and keep digging in with Alex. If you're tired of going at it alone, we understand every man needs wise counsel, but finding it can be quite the challenge. That's why we build our leadership masterminds. This isn't just more content, guys. It's real discipleship with a consistent rhythm, small cohorts of no more than seven guys, honest hot seat sessions, and biblical counsel that turns good intentions into action. You'll get accountability, clarity, and a circle of brothers who will challenge you and cheer you on. We open up new options regularly so there's room to find the right fit. It's not always easy, but it is worth it. The first step is simple. Take the leadership mastermind assessment. No pressure, no hype, just thoughtful questions to help you see where you are, where God is leading you, and whether this is a good option for your next step. Hey, if it's a fit, we're gonna follow up with details. And if it's not, we'll point you to resources to help you keep growing. Either way, you move forward. So if you're ready to take the assessment, head over to the lionwithin.us slash mastermind. So that's the lionwithin.us slash mastermind to get moving today. So Alice, I am super curious because you talk a lot about you you even said the question, I wrote it down when you said it when you were writing, am I living it out? You know, and and that right there where the rubber meets the road is kind of the gap that I see when I talk and I talk to a lot of guys where who they are on Sunday versus who they are the rest of the week, there's almost like these two, you know, two people living in, you know, uh, depending on where they're at and what you're saying right here, you're trying to bridge that gap. And I mean, oh at the end of the day, that's discipleship. I think you and I both know that, but I see that as a major gap for many churches. So how do you see that playing out so to so far as discipleship uh in in what you were doing here and trying to encourage guys to to walk that out?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that I do fall short. Um I have gone through seasons of my life where you know I I was more consistent of a personal evangelist than I am now. Um and part of that is the season of life and uh the nature of our ministry. I'm surrounded by Christians every day, and of course, we've got four small kids that we're chasing all over the place. And so um it's very easy to allow those things to stack up and to become excuses. Um, but but in all practicality, um, I wrote it as much to myself as to anyone else. I need that exhortation, I need that rebuke. Um but I was also surprised by some of what I read uh in the book, you know. So I've I've always rejected, for instance, the the falsified, uh taken out of context quote from Saint Francis of Assisi, you know, preach the gospel at all times, if if necessary, use words. Um that's not what he wrote, that's not what he meant, but but at the same time, um you know, Philippians has so many stirring statements about uh you know, to live as Christ, to die is gain. Um Paul makes it very clear that he's living for one purpose and one purpose only. Um but he also does speak to the importance of not just your witness, but your character, you know, the way that you're living outside of Sunday morning. And one of the most challenging and encouraging things to me was reading what he says in chapter two, do all things without grumbling and disputing, that you may be blameless and innocent children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life. So the idea of holding on uh fast, holding tightly to the gospel, shining as a light, um, those are obviously things that make us think about our evangelistic witness. But Paul, in one breath, associates that with uh doing everything without grumbling and being blameless and innocent. And so the the standard, I think, for all of us is higher than we wish it were in our flesh. We should all be doing more for the Lord, but also in in some sense, if you have the Holy Spirit and if you're walking by faith each day, the standard for some of us is lower maybe than we realize it is. I don't mean that that we should be phoning it in, but you know, the Lord's commandments aren't burdensome, right? 1 John 5. And and even this idea here like, do you really want to stand out as a witness for Christ? Um, try this. Like, share the gospel, sure. But you know what? Try just not complaining, which which for me is a challenge. Um, your coworkers will notice that that you refuse to complain, and that will open up natural doors of opportunity asking what's different about you. You know, so so in certain you know, respects, that God has made it very easy for us to be about his mission and his work. Um, there's very simple things where if we're willing to let our daily conduct adorn the gospel the way that it should, we're gonna find it easier to get into those gospel conversations, not harder to get into them. Um, and that's what Paul paints is this picture of a life that adorns the gospel, not just a bold witness in a vacuum, um, but your whole life as witness in addition to your words, not shortchanging the value of words at all. So, you know, there was there's many of those practical lessons that challenged me each day while I was working through this. Um, that's the challenge we all face, is not just to be Sunday morning Christians.

Chris Grainger:

100%. I mean, one thing that came to mind when you were talking was you know, not complaining, obviously. I mean, trying to be spirit-led. And at the same time, you mentioned it earlier, a kind of controversial topic, but like uh righteous anger and and how so talk to the guys out there who are getting pretty frustrated with what's happening. I mean, look what happened to Charlie Kirk, what happens to LGBTQ, or what it all the sexual immorality that's out there that now is being, you know, it's just basically we're supposed to just accept it and move on now. And you know, so you you have this command from Paul around not complaining and you know, and and but at the same time you see righteous anger from Christ when he's clearing out the temple. So I mean, how do you counsel guys around some of these these topics that are hitting us every day? And our I mean, you got four kids, I got four kids, you know, and they're getting inundated with this stuff. And you know, I'm trying to help that guy out there to go, okay, he's telling me not to complain, but I feel like I need to do something, you know. What what's your what's your counseling in those moments?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, for sure. I think there's a huge difference between uh it's not I think there is, that there just is a difference between grumbling and disputing, like Paul condemns in Philippians 2, uh, and standing for righteousness, especially in the public sphere, um, which Paul does. And Philippians isn't a polemical book. He's he's not necessarily writing it to address um issues. It's mostly a letter of encouragement, but he still takes some bold stances. And even in the midst of this epistle of joy, he's still willing to say, look out for the dogs, look out for the uh the circumcision who are really spiritually uncircumcised. And and then he even says, look out for the mutilators of the flesh. So one of the things that we unfortunately do in evangelical culture is uh we retreat to pietism, and the ministries that are built around you know personal evangelism missions tend to be a part of that retreat to pietism as well. We don't want to touch things that are controversial, we don't want to touch things that are political. Let's focus only on your personal relationship with Jesus and in terms of evangelism, getting more people into a personal relationship with Jesus. Paul doesn't retreat to that pietism at all. He confronts something head-on that he's seeing, even in the midst of all this encouragement, he calls out people that are mutilating the flesh. So the parallel for that in our day is pretty clear. We literally have a leadership class that is openly, publicly advocating for the mutilation of the flesh of children, of the sexualization of children leading to the mutilation of their flesh in the fully literal sense of that term. We can call that out. We can hate that. Paul uses strong language. He says they're enemies of the cross. Uh their God is their belly, they glory in their shame. Paul has no hesitation at all to use strong language to condemn that. Now, Paul hates his own sin as much as he hates their sin. You know, he looks at all of the things that he used to derive his sense of worth from, and he says that they're all rubbish or scuba-on or refuse, human waste, excrement. He uses a pretty strong word there. Um he hates his own sin, but he doesn't just stop at hating his own sin. Because of his love for God, he also hates the public sin that's condemning his neighbor, right? So even looking at just this book, never mind the example of Christ and his boldness and turning over the tables and those sorts of things, we can find uh how we're supposed to live. There is such a thing as righteous indignation. Um, but with all of the laments that there were around Charlie Kirk's passing, I was I was on the one hand encouraged to see so many public evangelical figures be willing to memorialize him, speak positively of him. Um but in another way, Chris, like how do we know we're not just decorating the tombs of the prophets and and uh the way that the Pharisees were, while ourselves not being willing to be associated with them in life. So it's very easy to commend someone like Charlie Kirk posthumously because he was an evangelist. But in reality, many people wouldn't have wouldn't have wanted to be associated with him in life because he was too political or too controversial. And we have to rid ourselves of this idea. That's what Paul commends the Philippians for. He says, Hey, you are willing to be associated with me. You are with me in the defense and confirmation of the gospel. And yet, you know, Paul, Paul was, yes, a gospel witness before these Roman magistrates, but it's it's not as though he was just standing before them um debating justification by faith in a in a vacuum. Uh pretty often our public witness touches on other areas of life that are informed by the lordship of Christ. Like John the Baptist, you know, he's not just preaching, repent the kingdom of God is here. He's saying, Repent, you, Herod, of this specific sin of taking this woman who isn't yours. Uh we have to be willing to connect the gospel with its specific implications and stand on that and be associated with other people that get in hot water for also taking those sorts of sorts of bold, courageous stands. And the whole New Testament is replete with examples of that. It's to our own shame that we pretend we don't know how to reconcile this idea of you know being kind with righteous indignation. It's all over scripture. You can see that balance clearly if you're willing to see it, and if you're willing to take that risk and potentially alienate someone as you're standing for truth.

Chris Grainger:

Love that. Uh love that, Alex. I mean, and I I think. Like so many of the guys I'm I'm talking with now, they're really struggling with where is the line of being too bold versus being too timid, you know, and and I'm trying to help, you know, these guys think through the different topics and different like Charlie has a talking points. I mean, he would he would he would go to specific areas if a topic came up, he knew exactly where he wanted to go. As Christians, we have to train ourselves that way when these topics come come up and not cower down in the and the whole, you know, so much just tied back to sexual immorality. So, I mean, how do you if if you're working with guys and maybe they're trying to figure out how do I take a pro-life stance, you know, biblically and not just, let's just say, just be too abrasive out there. I mean, I don't I don't know. I feel like some sometimes you've got to be abrasive and then sometimes you gotta tell it to to to have a little bit of a gentler hand. So on those type of topics, what do you what do you what do you counsel guys there with?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah. That conversation takes a lot of different forms. Right now, there's a clear pipeline from reality respecter to Christianity, right? There's people that are returning to an understanding of traditional um ontology. What, you know, what is it, what does it even mean to be or or to be human, um, and and to to go from that and follow that path of valuing what's good and true and beautiful, and then to find Christianity through it. So right now we are in an age where um there is tact uh not only is it good to do this in general, because it's right, but there's also tactical benefit to being clear, uh to being uncompromising, unyielding, and rather than leading with um, you know, sort of the the common ground, sometimes even leading with the things that traditionally would be considered door closers. Um, there is a certain amount of respect you can garner sometimes just by being very clear in what you believe. Um, if a person is willing to maintain a conversation and a relationship with someone that disagrees. Uh again, scripture models for us how we can love the individual in front of us, recognize that the enemy is ultimately not them, it's the unseen spiritual forces holding them hostage. Um they're a representation, a manifestation of that, but the real enemy is not just the person. The enemy is the sin that is holding them down, the the world, the flesh, and the devil. Um Paul obviously talks about that in Ephesians 6. So Charlie Kirk models that beautifully. Uh, he was willing to debate political issues with people, but he wasn't, especially the older he got, um, passionate just to stop at politics. He wasn't going on campuses debating what the marginal tax rate should be. He debated political issues because he knew underneath every political issue was a cultural issue, underneath every cultural issue was a moral issue, and underneath every moral issue is ultimately a question of truth that scripture speaks to. So just like you said, knowing how to turn a conversation down those roads, bring things into the light of scripture, I think it's ultimately just being very honest with people. Um, I think it's speaking the truth in love, as Paul says in Ephesians 4. And that doesn't mean that like truth and love, this is something else that we talk about in striving for the faith. So when you hear that phrase speaking the truth in love, most people think, okay, so there's like a spectrum. You know, over here is truth, over here is love, and it's the golden mean somewhere in the middle. Um that's not what that says. Speaking the truth in love. So truth is what's being delivered. It's it's within the context of love. So in reality, um, it should, it shouldn't be 50% truth, 50% truth. It should be all truth and all love, or or all unashamed, courageous truth, motivated by love, wrapped in love. Love can be a confrontational at times. Um, but the way that I love someone most is by speaking the truth to them, not by speaking half of the truth and then seeking to sort of butter them up. Um, so I think in general, we need more bold truth telling in our culture and not less. Um, there are some idiots online. There are people that are too abrasive. Um, and certainly not just online. Certainly, you see, you know, violence in in parts of the country as well. But but in general, for Christian men, our sin tends to be that of passivity. And that I think is the dragon to sleigh today. And I think I would love to have a conversation where tomorrow we can talk about how to pull back and rein it in a little bit. But you need to have the raw materials first before you can even do that.

Chris Grainger:

100%, 100%. So look, we're gonna take a break because I don't want to dive into that with you a little bit further, Alex. If you've ever opened the Bible and had the thought, where do I even start? Brother, you're not alone. I've had those moments all too often. And I found that having a guide was helpful. And that's why we created the I'm just a guy series on the Bible app. They're short, they're honest, and they help you read scripture and walk it out. And these plans speak to the real stuff that we're wrestling with as men, like marriage, anxiety, loneliness, shame, pornography, and so much more. Now do this all without pretending or piling on a bunch of self-help nonsense. And lots of guys are using them in their small groups, and they're helping to spark honest conversations and take simple next steps in their discipleship journey. So if that sounds helpful, check them out at thelionwithin.us slash uversions. That's Y-O-U-D-E-R-S-I-O-N. Or just open up your Bible app and search for the Lion Within Us. And it's my hope that these reflections will encourage you in just a few minutes and help you walk with him all day long. So you you mentioned spiritual passivity, and that 100%. I'm I one I'm I've gone on the record so many times talking about that is probably the number one issue with Christian guys right now. But my second, uh kind of digging on what you were talking about, where do the where can we go? Well, like from the speaking just from a church standpoint, I have we have the lion, we got we have places where guys can come have these conversations, iron sharpening iron, complex topics. You know, you can get it wrong, we can we can correct you in truth and have those those conversations. That's not a typical Sunday morning uh you know experience for guys as is you know, not a Sunday school or even a small group. So much of that is fellowship versus discipleship. And I think we're really digging onto the heels of discipleship here. So I mean, where how where do you point guys to have to be able to get like if I want to start hitting more homers, I better get in a bat and cage. You know, I'm just gonna walk up there and just crank one. Like, I gotta have reps to get good at this stuff. So where can we go to have these reps, to have these conversations, to to challenge ourselves and to be to be sharpened?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah. Uh one of the chapters in the book is uh, you know, fellowship is not just potlucking. And that's true. Most Sunday mornings uh tend to stop at the ladder, though. And I'm not against potlucks. We actually had one on Sunday, and you know, there was enough leftovers by God's grace, like we just finished the leftovers the other day. So I'm I'm all for potlucking, but you have to get in positions where iron can sharpen iron. The type of fellowship that Paul's referring to is the fellowship of brothers in arms, of men in the trenches in the foxhole together in a combat scenario. So uh that that may or may not mean that every single person is uh speaking at the school council against whatever transgender nonsense is coming down the line, or uh or is on the mission field seeking to proclaim Christ for the first time to pagans that don't know anything about his message. Uh, you're gonna have different roles in the body of Christ, uh, but there has to be this solidarity underneath all of that, where if I'm not that guy, I'm praying for that guy, I'm in relationship with that guy, uh, maybe I'm financially supporting that guy if there's need. Maybe if he falls under scrutiny, the whole church comes together to support him, to support his family, um, to pay for his security system. I mean, like there's there's a way that uh even right now in our context culturally, um, you know, people have jobs, have livelihoods, those sorts of things. But at the end of the day, do you have any skin in the game? Is kind of where I want to ship the conversation. Uh, if you don't have any skin in the game at all, then you need to take stock and to evaluate. And the reality is I think too many of us use our need to provide for our families as an excuse for inaction. And I think we need more risk taking than that. So, how do you get reps in? Like I it, you know, it it comes down to ultimately faithfulness in the small things, not just the the big, large-scale things. So I'm in favor of, for instance, standing before our city council like that a few years ago and condemning abortion and calling the city council to repent and and to do whatever they can to frustrate the plans of of something like Planned Parenthood in their city, um, or or to frustrate the plans of the LGBT lobby in the city that a few years ago was trying to get um conversion therapy banned in our city here, which unfortunately they did uh a few years ago. But before I do that, honestly, this is where people will say, you know, social media isn't real life. Um don't just, you know, post on social media all day. Um that's true, but I will say if you want to get a rep in, like, figure out what you believe and be bold enough to post it somewhere. That's okay. You can do that. And and you can also DM someone if you're not willing to post that for everybody, but like, hey, man, I need to, you know, I've I've got a I've got a friend from the gym who who is homosexual, um, who's a sodomite. And I I have a great relationship with him. We we uh text back and forth, and and I'll tell him, like, man, you need to repent and trust Jesus Christ. And like the relationship context, he knows I'm gonna tell him that. He expects me to tell him that. And there's enough mutual respect that I can get that message across and we pray for the time for him to repent. Um, build in habits where you make yourself uncomfortable in little ways regularly by speaking the truth that you don't really want to speak, even if it's as simple as asking your waitress, hey, how can I pray for you? The fact that you feel a little bit awkward about doing that is proof that you need to do it. Uh, and the more that you do it, the more you'll get used to, you know, it's like it's like in in physical exercise, progressive overload. Uh, the more that you build upon that, the more strength and resolve that you'll find yourself developing. So whether it's whether it's posting, and actually right now, you know, posting on X can make a great deal of impact. You can actually steer public policy that way. It's actually crazy what jimping out on X can do from time to time. So whether it's online, whether it's in private conversations, individual encounters that you have face to face, uh, get in the time under pressure, uh the time under tension in those settings so that you are ready to take those bigger public stances if and when the time comes for you. And then have that deep underlying sense of camaraderie with those that are doing the work, the missionaries, the pastors in your life, uh recognize that you're a part of their ministry too, through encouraging them, through praying for them, sacrificially supporting them. Because the gospel advances not just through you being a hero online, being a keyboard warrior or whatever. It advances through the whole body of Christ striving side by side together for the faith of the gospel, which is what Paul says in Philippians 1.27. Everybody's striving side by side together.

Chris Grainger:

Amen to that, Alex. For 100%. I mean, and for the guys out there listening, just put you got to get some some guys you mentioned earlier, your foxhole, we call it your lion's den. You got to get some guys where you you can have these types of conversations as well to be sharpened so that when you go out, you're you're you're you're spreading truth, right? Because we have to be careful because if we go out there and we're saying the wrong things, we can do more harm than good, right? Yeah.

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, for sure. There's um there's great risk in going out unprepared. That doesn't mean everybody needs a seminary degree, but but the thing that Paul does confront in Philippians 3 is people that have gotten the gospel wrong. They're putting more stock in their national identity or their religious resumes than they are in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. So um, you know, it's it's not good to have knowledge but no zeal, uh, and to be sort of collecting dust on a shelf rather than in the game. Uh, it's also not good to have zeal without knowledge and to be out there um spreading truth but in a sloppy fashion that's actually alienating people. Uh but you you do have to get out there. And if someone is out there uh engaging in a in a less than fully effective manner, you know, God in his grace might send an Aquila and a Priscilla along to say, like, all right, you know what, let me show you how to teach the way more accurately. Um, and you can be an asset there. Um I don't like the expression um because I don't think it's it's theologically accurate. God can do anything, he's sovereign, but I think what it's meant to convey is true, the expression that God can't steer a parked car. Um, in a certain sense, that's true. The beauty of it is God God can actually direct the parked car wherever he wants, but but sometimes you don't want him to have to exercise that kind of force. Um, what what that expression is meant to convey is like get into it, get on the road, and then expect God to direct you one way or another. So all things being equal, I'd rather somebody be out there and be willing to be engaging others as they're learning than somebody who's just going to learn, learn, learn and never actually engage or take a risk or talk to anyone else.

Chris Grainger:

Absolutely. And which kind of leads me all the way back full circle to your book, striving. That word striving, why'd you use that? I mean, that's I love the word, but I just love to hear why you pulled, you felt like using that was the right one to put for the title of the book. Yeah.

Alex Kocman:

So Philippians 127 um is is kind of Paul's thesis of the book. Uh, and and that's the word that the ESV translates there. And it says, Let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel. Verse 28, not frightened in anything by your adversaries. So there are so many programs out there that'll teach you, here's how to live on mission, you know, find your disciple, make a disciple, you know, find your three, find your six, find your twelve. Um, there are lots of methodologies. Here's how to share the gospel, use these verses instead of these verses, or use the Ten Commandments. And then that's fine. But where this places the emphasis is much more on what you desire, what you're panting after, uh, what you're passionately pursuing. Um, the how will follow. But there has to be that drive and that impetus. And that's what I find is most needed in my own life. You know, when I go to an excellent restaurant, uh, it doesn't take lots of technique for me to start evangelizing other people about it. Anything that I naturally enjoy, find valuable, find worthy, I'm going to overflow uh in informing other people about it, inviting them to experience that with me, because that's how my own joy is made full and complete. And the same happens with Christ. If I am really desiring and savoring the expansion of his kingdom, his domain, his sovereign rule displayed visibly through people coming to faith, through churches being built up, through people living under his lordship boldly in the face of opposition. If that's what juices me up, it's actually going to be very easy for me to express that. And then the how, you know, where there's a will, there's a way. Like I need the will first, and then there can be a way to that. So that's what I was trying to capture in that title. I'm glad it got through. Um, most of us don't need more technique, and most of us don't need more practical helps. Most of us just need the driving initiative to to want Christ's kingdom to expand. Um, and and we're gonna have different approaches to how that gets done, but we need to desire that more than we desire our own personal advancement or uh any other personal achievements.

Chris Grainger:

Well, I I love the title. I thought you you drilled it. Love the book. I tell you what, why don't we do a little lightning round here at the end and have some fun? You want to do that? Let's do it. Awesome, awesome. Well, what's what's the hobby? What's something you enjoy? Um besides chasing those four kids around, what's a hobby you enjoy doing for fun?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, aside from music, which we mentioned earlier, um, I am also a chicken tender. Uh, more accurately, my wife is, but we've acquired eight chickens, and I greatly enjoy having instant egg access, and the kids enjoy caring for them as well. So I am I am a suburban chicken enjoyer.

Chris Grainger:

Oh, okay. I was gonna ask you if you're on a farm or not. So just be careful because we have a farm and a homestead, and we started with a few chickens. I I don't know where we're up to now, 20-something chickens, but then you know, so just be careful. They have a way of multiplying, just got a little heads up there.

Alex Kocman:

They they sure do. We are we have definitely been homestead pilled, so look out.

Chris Grainger:

There you go. Good luck with it. Good luck. So, what's what's your favorite food, Alex? What's your go-to there? Favorite food?

Alex Kocman:

Oh, goodness. Uh, great, great, great, great question. Um, I like everything. Um this, I mean, uh, a good rare steak is is truly uh and and I'm not very discriminating. I'll I'll take it in almost any form. Um, but a a good intentionally undercooked steak is great. Second, though, and this maybe maybe maybe disqualifies me from being a true red-blooded American, but I'm partial to sushi. I'm very partial to sushi.

Chris Grainger:

Hey, you're speaking about love language now, Alex. I'm I'm right there with you, buddy. That's me and my wife. We our go-to is we're going to a sushi restaurant.

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, good. That that's good. My wife and I as well. She doesn't do the raw stuff. I do the raw stuff. She just does the you know, the California, the whatever. Uh, but that's all right. We meet in the middle. Eat that old Georgia pie.

Chris Grainger:

There you go. There you go. All right. What about uh you got four kids, so you probably watch some some some some of these superhero movies from time to time. If you could have a super uh hero trait, you know, a superpower, if you will, which one would you like to have, Alex, and how would you use it?

Alex Kocman:

Hmm. Wow, that's that's great. I'll tell you, you know what feels like would it would be a lot of fun um is that it's not a superhero trait, it's a super villain trait. Uh in the uh the Avengers, uh, what is it? Uh in the one before Endgame, the big two parter. So is it is it infinity war comes before that? You know, there's this one like sorcerer that that answers to Thanos just with the telekinesis moving things around everywhere. Like, there's so many times where I'm stuck in traffic where it's just like, I wish I could just flick my hand, levitate the car, bounce over it. Like that, that would be a great, great uh uh set of powers to have. So, you know, Squidward from whatever that movie is. That's that's my guy.

Chris Grainger:

There you go. There's your guy. So if you look back over to last year, Alex, where did you spend too much time? We always like to diagnose, to reflect. If you look back, did you waste time anywhere? Did you like to get back?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah, for sure. That's that's a great question. I for sure wasted too much time on social media. There's there's no doubt. I've got I've got app limits that are set, and in general, I wouldn't say I'm consumed by it, but I I just know that I I spent too much time on it. My my biggest mistake is is looking at it before I do other important things in the morning. And there's some days where I'm like, nope, I'm not gonna touch it. Straight to the word, you know, and then there's other days where it's like, oh, let me check it first, and then you know, 20 minutes slips by. Um, and and 20 minutes is it makes a big difference in in one's morning routine. So, you know, you can pray for me and resolve, you know, with me, you know, better time management uh would be a prayer. Hey, bro, I think we're all right there with you. So thank you for being here. And unfortunately, with my job, like I have to be on it. So uh I I I I envy my friends who just delete the app. Um, if I delete the app and then I don't see what my organization's posting, then I'm I'm not doing my job. So there's a happy medium in there we've got to find.

Chris Grainger:

That's right, that's right. You'll get there for sure. Well, when do you think about God, Alex? What's what's your favorite thing about him? I I just love asking this question just to see where people go.

Alex Kocman:

That's a great question. Um the very first thing that that that often comes to mind for me is his assayity, um, that he is. He just is, he's the I am. And even from childhood, you think of all of the statements that God makes about himself in scripture, that one's always just stood out to me the most because it's so haunting and difficult to conceive of. I mean, what does that even mean? That he is who he is. Um the the episode of of Moses and and the burning bush, you know, it what like my my favorite animated movie of all time is The Prince of Egypt. And I I just love you know the the way that the the warm voice of of Val Kilmer with the reverb turned all the way up just sort of says, you know, I am that I am. And uh of course we know that the real deal is infinitely more majestic um than that. But um when I when I consider who God is, um, you know, there's there's so much in scripture about what he does, you know, that he exercises love and mercy and compassion. And and those are, of course, everything to us. But I I often in my mind and heart find it most helpful to anchor myself first in who he is um uh before even thinking about how he engages uh and and relates to me. And so thinking about his his self-existence for me is huge.

Chris Grainger:

Love that, Alex. Now let's flip it 180. Which what's your least favorite thing about Satan?

Alex Kocman:

Wow, great question. Uh my least favorite thing. Um Wow, yeah, probably my my least favorite thing about uh our our ancient foe is his vile hatred for the most innocent expressions of the image of God. Um so I I mean I I guess this is a pretty serious answer, but it's it's not a fun question. That's a very serious question. Um I mean w we are up against global evil taking advantage of children, um, abusing, sexualizing them. Um it's it's really difficult to grasp how much is happening behind the scenes. And praise God for those who devote themselves to fighting it and are able to pour themselves out in that cause. But but the the sheer uh vitriol and and completely irrational hatred that the demonic realm has um for the innocence that you know ultimately everyone's born sinful, like I'm a Calvinist, but but but but still the innocence of children and wanting to take that away and stamp it out and corrupt it, um, and and bring it down to this base level. I mean, as a father, you know, I look at my children and I I can't comprehend the evil of anyone that would want to do that harm. And then I think how much more evil are the unseen forces that orchestrate that uh en masse uh across the globe. Um, and truly like Lord come quickly, like stamp that out. That um that that makes my blood boil more than anything else.

Chris Grainger:

Well, I'm right there with you, Alex. I mean, thank you for for for kind of going there a little bit deeper than most guys do. So I really appreciate that. The last question for you what do you hope the listeners remember the most from our conversation today?

Alex Kocman:

Hmm. You know, I thought you were gonna say like pineapples on pizza or something like that, and kind of just hard gear shift at the end. No, I I would say read the book of Philippians and just read it uh with an open mind of how do I put it into practice? And especially chapter one, verse 27. Paul wants every believer in the church to be in the trenches together, striving side by side, like like an army in formation. Like, like think of these ancient um you know, ranks of soldiers forming a shield wall together. You know, think of Braveheart. I mean, whatever image you need to put together with that, but that should be the church. Don't sit on the sidelines, don't just attend. Um, do everything that you can in your life to maximize that missional solidarity with your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether that means serving abroad among the nations, which my organization, ABWE, will help you do, whether that just means evangelizing your own children at the dinner table because they're not walking with the Lord or anything in between. Um, but but dig into that burst. Think about the type of purpose uh that the Lord wants you to have uh and don't waste your life in that respect.

Chris Grainger:

100%, Alex. So, where do you want to send the listeners to connect with you, to get the book, to follow all the stuff you're doing online as well?

Alex Kocman:

Yeah. Um, so I serve with ABWE. Um, so abwe.org. Uh, we can help you take your next steps in the Great Commission. My website is alexcookman.com. From there, there's links to all my writings, podcasts. You can buy the book. Uh, the book is available from Founders Press. Um, there's also missions by the book I've published with them with Chad Vegas, my co-author. And in January, Lord willing, a new book, Ordered to Love, Restoring the Biblical Order of Affections from the Home to the Ends of the Earth. So very excited for that. Kind of timely look at the Order El Morris and how that overlays on the idea of world missions, or do those things fit, or does one override the other? Kind of an interesting exploration. Um, and then we have a podcast as well that I host uh or co-host rather through ABWE. So the missions podcast every Sunday night at 7 p.m. And you can find the missions podcast wherever good podcasts are found.

Chris Grainger:

That's wonderful, Alex. Thank you so much for sharing today. Anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Alex Kocman:

Uh go birds. Um love my Philadelphia Eagles. That's Solideo Gloria. That's all I got. You wrung me dry, Chris. This was a great interview. Thank you so much for the chance to be here and cover a wide range of topics.

Chris Grainger:

Well, Alex, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much, and I hope you have a wonderful day. Yeah, Lord bless. Thank you. All right, guys. I told you that was going to be a fun one. So thank you so much, Alex, for again for coming and sharing. Hopefully, you guys got some good encouragement as well as maybe some ideas on how to lean in. Again, the question of the week this week is where are you clinging to control instead of surrendering? Like some things in life, fellas, we just gonna have to learn how to let go of. And some of it, but we just need to turn it completely, not some of it, all of it, we just need to turn over completely to God. And then at some point, when he gives us that conviction, that stirs us up. That's when we should take action. Okay. So thank you guys, you know, again, so much for listening. Hopefully you enjoyed this one with Alex. Go check out all the work that he's doing. And again, thelionwithin.us is where you can connect with the work that we're doing to serve. Maybe if you want to check us out on the Bible app, if you want to check us out our daily spiritual kickoff, if you want to join our community, if you want to consider our leadership mastermind and see if you'd be a good fit for that. We have lots of ways we engage guys on a regular basis. You can check out our book, you can check out, I'll tell you, Bible studies, all the stuff that we've written, fellas, just to get out there and serve you. Okay. And some of the stuff you may be finding interesting that it could serve you and your local men's group, whatever group you're a part of, lots of those guys are finding that they can take our resources that we've built and utilize them with their group. So we really want you to do that. I mean, we want you to be able to do that, to have these conversations, to force engagement, to kind of push you into the point where you want to really lean in. So find all that stuff, fellas, at thelionwithin.us. All right. Well, give us a rating review. Come back on Friday, we'll have some fun Friday tips for you. And other than that, you know what's coming right. Keep unleashing the lion within. Trying to find genuine resources to help grow spiritually can feel overwhelming. At least it was for me. For the longest time, the support that I was looking for didn't exist. And I knew I wasn't alone. And at the same time, God was leading me to take action. That's why we built the Lion Within Us Community, which is simply a place for Christian men to grow together in an honest, practical way that's always rooted in God's Word. We've made it simple. We have our daily spiritual kickoff for that little boost to get you going. We have Bible studies focusing on discerning truth and applying it. And we have a private forum where you can speak freely amongst other guys who listen. And then we have things like Friday Forge, Couples Night, where we tackle the hard items that guys are craving to talk about, but most face settings just refuse to explore these areas. So our community is about a growth mindset, intentionality, and transparency. Simply put, leave the mask at the door and come as you are. No perfect resume, just a willing heart and a desire to lead. I believe in what we've built simply because I've seen God use it to strengthen so many men. And I'd be honored to walk alongside you. So if you're ready, visit thelionwithin.us to explore the community. Start your free trial. Look around and see how this could help you lead with clarity and courage. So your journey begins here at thelionwithin.us. I look forward to seeing you inside the den.

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Chris Grainger

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