S5 E5: The Unseen Realm--Part 3

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Season 5 will cover the supernatural and paranormal from a Spirit-led perspective. In this episode, Glenn continues looking at the book "The Unseen Realm" by the late Dr. Michael Heiser. This book is used by many Christians to explain paranormal and supernatural events. The book has attracted both criticism and praise, and Glenn will focus on portions of the book he believes are relevant to a Spirit-led life. This episode looks at a Deuteronomy 32 worldview and Glenn gives his final thoughts on the book.

The Bible will be the source of truth for this season, even though extra-biblical books and podcasts will be discussed. As discussed in Episode 1, Glenn will be kind to the authors and podcast hosts discussed throughout the season.

This episode has a transcript. If your podcast player does not support transcripts, please go to the Transcripts section of https://spiritledhope.com/  These transcripts have been edited for accuracy and are typically of higher quality than those produced automatically by many podcast apps.

Transcript

S5 E5 TRANSCRIPT 

THE UNSEEN REALM PART 3

INTRODUCTION

Hello everyone and welcome to Spirit-Led Hope. My name is Glenn Erichsen, and in this episode, we are discussing a book called:

     THE UNSEEN REALM

And this is Part 3. It is very important that you listen to parts 1 and 2 first. Also, as in the last episode, I will briefly discuss some adult themes found in Genesis 6. If any pre-teens are listening with you, you may want to review this episode first, although I will be using very discreet expressions.

I know the last episode may have seemed a little out there, and this episode may feel the same. But please, just bear with me a little longer.

QUICK REVIEW

Later in this episode, I am going to give you my general thoughts on this book by the late Dr. Michael Heiser. But before we get to that, we are going to do a quick recap of parts 1 and 2.

As you will recall, we have been looking at 4 significant Biblical events discussed in “The Unseen Realm.” These events form a framework which many Christians use in their understanding of supernatural and paranormal phenomena. 

We covered the first significant event in Episode 3. There we saw that God created a vast array of spiritual beings before he created humans. And some of these spiritual beings were part of a “divine council” which gave input to God on how to run the universe.

In Episode 4 we discussed the second and third significant events. The second event took place when Satan, a member of the divine council, rebelled against God. In his rebellion, Satan tempted Eve in the garden of Eden, which ultimately led to the fall of Adam and the introduction of sin into all of humanity.

The third significant event was an escalation of sin when more spiritual beings followed Satan in rebellion. The rebellion took an icky turn in Genesis 6 where we see the spiritual beings desiring women, getting intimate with them and producing offspring. This cross-species mating resulted in the Nephilim, hybrids who were powerful giants. These giants appear in Scripture before and after the flood.

I do realize that not all Christians accept this understanding of Genesis 6. In fact, just the other day I was reading the “NLT Life Application Study Bible.” In the commentary for Genesis 6, this study Bible promotes the idea that the “sons of God” were descendants of Seth, like I mentioned in the last episode. But the “Unseen Realm” makes a strong case for the supernatural perspective, and that is what I concluded decades ago. For sure, a supernatural reading of Genesis 6 can be used to help explain present-day supernatural and paranormal activity. But I know this is hard for some Christians to accept, and it is one of those of areas where we can agree to disagree.

As a side note and something we did not discuss, the mating of spiritual beings and humans was considered by God to be a very wicked thing to do. This was one of the reasons for the flood. The flood was a judgment on humans and apparently also a time when God dealt with some of the corrupt spiritual beings. In 2 Peter 2:4, Peter talks about angels who God cast into hell for their sin. Humans and spiritual beings were never meant to intermingle in the way they did.

THE FOURTH SIGNIFICANT EVENT

The fourth significant event that Heiser highlights is covered by two sections of Scripture. The first group of verses contain the well-known story of the tower of Babel. Let us read it:

The whole earth had the same language and vocabulary. As people migrated from the east, they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there. They said to each other, “Come, let’s make oven-fired bricks.” (They used brick for stone and asphalt for mortar.) And they said, “Come, let’s build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky. Let’s make a name for ourselves; otherwise, we will be scattered throughout the earth.” Then the Lord came down to look over the city and the tower that the humans were building. The Lord said, “If they have begun to do this as one people all having the same language, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let’s go down there and confuse their language so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” So from there the Lord scattered them throughout the earth, and they stopped building the city. Therefore it is called Babylon, for there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth, and from there the Lord scattered them throughout the earth.

Genesis 11:1-9 CSB

What Heiser then does, is link this event at Babel to some verses in Deuteronomy. And this gets really interesting because different Bible translators argue over how these verses should be translated. I am going to read Deuteronomy 32:8-9 first using the Christian Standard Bible. There is a chronological error in these verses, see if you can hear it. These two verses describe what happened when God divided the human race at Babel. Listen carefully.

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance and divided the human race, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the people of Israel. But the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob, his own inheritance.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 CSB

Did you catch it? The problem with this translation, is that the people of Israel did not yet exist at Babel when God scattered the human race. Translations like the CSB include a footnote which gives another way to translate the Hebrew. The alternative reading, which avoids any anachronisms, is used by translations like the ESV, which reads this way:

When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 ESV

Heiser argues that this is the correct translation and the only one that makes sense according to various manuscripts, as well as text found with the Dead Sea scrolls. But now you can see why he thinks the translation is a big deal. Because like we saw in Episode 3, these sons of God are the members of the divine council. What Heiser proposes is that when the people at Babel were scattered and nations sprang up throughout the earth, God placed these nations under the authority of members of the divine council. It was a moment when God essentially disinherited the nations to let them run their own affairs the way they wanted. Only Israel did God keep for himself. This is what is called a Deuteronomy 32 worldview.

Not everyone agrees with Heiser’s approach, but as usual he backs up his views with plenty of Scripture which I will not cover here. What I find interesting for our use, is that this view fits well with the Apostle Paul’s statement in Ephesians 6:12 which says:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this darkness, against evil, spiritual forces in the heavens.

Ephesians 6:12 CSB

This verse in Ephesians talks about evil forces having authority and power over regions. From a Spirit-led perspective, we should not be surprised to see that different regions have different spiritual realities. Why? Because different spiritual beings with power and authority and unique characteristics cover different areas. 

THE BIG UNSEEN PICTURE

With these four significant events, we now have a high-level framework of what Heiser presents in “The Unseen Realm.” Now, he takes it way further and uses this framework to help explain many of the difficult or odd passages in the Bible.

For example, we read that the Nephilim appeared after the flood. If this was the result of more interbreeding between spiritual beings and humans, then this was a return of the wicked events which led to the flood. This may provide a possible explanation for why God commanded the Israelites to destroy some communities. 

Heiser goes so deep into many of these areas that three podcast episodes cannot do the book justice. What I have not covered, is how Heiser takes these four events and ultimately relates them to Jesus and the New Testament. He points out God’s heart to reclaim everyone and reestablish humanity under the rule of Jesus. Whether you agree with Heiser or not, it is a sweeping view which highlights a coherent picture of supernatural realities in the Bible.

WHY THESE FOUR EVENTS?

So why did I pick out these four significant events to start this season? It is because these four events are often cited by Christians trying to explain the supernatural or paranormal. And we will undoubtedly cross some of these paths in future episodes. Or you might run across these ideas on a podcast or a blog. You might hear them at a church service.

For example, remember how in Episode 4 we read that there would be hostility between the offspring of humans and Satan? Many Christians see the mating of spiritual beings with women in Genesis 6 as a direct attack against humans. This is because the Nephilim were no longer humans made in God’s image. If you think about it, with enough interbreeding, the entire human race could have been corrupted and no longer image bearers like God intended. That would have been a huge win for Satan.

Jump forward to our day and the large number of people who report being abducted by aliens. Some of the abducted report that aliens used them for genetic experiments. Because of Genesis 6, some Christians view these reports as evidence that the aliens are hostile spiritual beings attempting to once again corrupt humanity by creating hybrids. I did warn you that this season might get a little strange.

As another example of how these four events are relevant, many well-known podcasters are discussing ancient gods and alien technology. Some Christians relate this to the divine council and other spiritual beings crossing prohibited boundaries in their rebellion. The idea here is that these advanced and hostile spiritual beings are continuously teaching humans things that are often harmful to us. An example might be how to use ayahuasca to have spiritual dreams.

One thing I want to make clear is that in some cases, these four events have taken on a life of their own. There is no doubt that Dr. Heiser would not support some of the conclusions drawn from his book. But Dr. Heiser did think about how his worldview could explain some paranormal activity like aliens. He was a popular speaker at UFO conferences where he presented a Christian worldview. You can find some of his presentations on YouTube today.

WHAT DO I THINK OF ALL THIS?

Now, after 3 episodes covering parts of “The Unseen Realm,” you might be wondering what I really think of all of this. From a theological perspective, I believe Michael Heiser was bold and presented some well researched theological and Biblical perspectives. I do not agree with many of the things he said, but I believe he was right to present many thought-provoking ideas worth discussing.

I do not like how confident he is in some of his assertions, and I am uncomfortable at times with some of his reliance on extra-biblical material. What he does, in my opinion, is make a framework that explains a lot and is useful, but at times he almost seems to force some things to make them fit into his theory. And I do not like that.

However, with respect to these four significant events, I agree with the basics. Scripture does mention a divine council, and we have reason to believe Satan was a member. We know Satan rebelled and successfully caused the downfall of humans. I have no problem accepting that there are many spiritual beings with different forms that are hostile to humans. I am not sure that I buy into Heiser’s complete Deuteronomy 32 worldview, but I do believe, based on Ephesians, that there are spiritual powers and authorities who function in designated areas. And I accept the uncomfortable realities of spiritual beings and women procreating, because that is what I believe the Bible teaches, even though I know that is not accepted by all Christians. This is probably accepted more by charismatics like me.

In all of this, it is up to you to determine what you believe. I do worry that my approach might be seen as not fair to Micheal Heiser. That is the risk I have taken in the way I tackled this. I hope you can see I have respect for his work, and I appreciate why many Christians today are influenced by “The Unseen Realm.” If you have a deep criticism of “The Unseen Realm” based on these three episodes, then I encourage you to read the book so you can get all the information instead of my highly filtered approach. 

Now, all that said, I want to tell you what made me a little sad when I read “The Unseen Realm.” And this has nothing to do with Dr. Heiser’s research or writing ability…which are both very good.

As I mentioned in an earlier episode, the full title of the book is “The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible.” I also mentioned that the need for recovering a supernatural worldview is not true for all Christians. Many Christians, especially charismatics, are deeply grounded in a supernatural Biblical worldview.

Dr. Heiser wrote that “God provoked him” to write the book. I believe that. Many Christians have lost a supernatural worldview of the Bible. And that is what made me sad. There should be no need to help any Christian recover a supernatural worldview. Even when I was a non-charismatic, I had a supernatural worldview because the Bible teaches it. God is supernatural. How can you lose or miss that?

If you have read the Bible and it lost its supernatural worldview, most likely you were taught or decided to place priority on a materialistic or scientific perspective. Or you elevated an intellectual approach which suppressed supernatural beliefs. 

If that is you, then there is hope. You can read “The Unseen Realm” and learn about some Biblical supernatural perspectives, or you can do something even better. You can experience the supernatural by living a Spirit-led life. That is my hope for you, and I hope that this podcast can help you on your Spirit-led journey. God wants us to live in his Presence, and there are all sorts of adventures waiting for you as you allow God to guide you through his Word and the Holy Spirit.

CLOSING

That ends our review of “The Unseen Realm” and it took way more time than I thought it would. And I know it probably stirred up a lot of questions.

In the next episode I am not sure yet what we are going to do. We may look at the Book of Enoch, or I may share a story or two. Or maybe both. We will have to wait and see.

As always, you can send me comments, suggestions, or questions, by email at glenn@spiritledhope.com, or simply use the Contact Form at spiritledhope.com. You can also send me a one-way text message by going to the episode show notes and clicking on the link with your smart phone. If you find these episodes useful, please spread the word and share them with your friends.

As you lead a Spirit-led life:

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope, by the power of the Holy Spirit.  

Until the next episode, take care.

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