S5 E11: Ghosts

Season 5 covers the supernatural and paranormal from a Spirit-led perspective. In this episode, Glenn discusses how Christians and believers in universal consciousness think differently about ghosts. Glenn looks at how the Bible addresses ghosts and some very strange verses about a medium calling up Samuel from the dead.

The Bible will be the source of truth for this season, even though extra-biblical books and podcasts will be discussed. As discussed in Episode 1, Glenn will be kind to the authors and podcast hosts discussed throughout the season.

This episode has a transcript. If your podcast player does not support transcripts, please go to the Transcripts section of https://spiritledhope.com/  These transcripts have been edited for accuracy and are typically of higher quality than those produced automatically by many podcast apps.

Transcript

S5 E11 TRANSCRIPT 

GHOSTS

INTRODUCTION

Hello everyone and welcome to Spirit-Led Hope. My name is Glenn Erichsen, and in this episode, we are getting spooky and talking about:

     GHOSTS

Over the last 10 episodes we have talked a lot about three views of the supernatural and the paranormal. A lot of our discussions have been a bit abstract or on topics that are new to many Christians. That is not the case for this episode.

Most people know something about ghosts. I do not know about you, but I remember hearing ghost stories since I was a young boy. I grew up with cartoon characters like “Casper the Friendly Ghost.” And, as I got older, there were movies like “Ghostbusters,” “Ghostbusters 2,” “Ghost,” “The Sixth Sense,” and even “Mission Impossible—Ghost Protocol,” although that last one does not really count.

Around the world, there is a fascination with ghosts, and ghosts seem to be part of a universal belief. Some of the data I found indicates that about 40% of Americans believe in ghosts, and about 20% claim to have seen one. That is 1 in 5 people! I do not know how this compares to other countries. I would not be surprised if the numbers were even higher in countries with practices like ancestor worship.

You may wonder why we are looking at ghosts now. In prior episodes, we have seen that materialism denies the possibility of anything supernatural or paranormal. But that is not the case for the views of universal consciousness or Christianity. In some cases, both Christianity and universal consciousness seem to promote similar ideas. And yet, there are significant differences which make them incompatible. 

For example, in the last episode, we said that practices like astral projection are not okay from a Christian perspective. Why is that…why are Christians prohibited from doing things like astral projection? And that is why we are talking about ghosts. Ghosts give us an easy way to see why Christians are told to avoid the practices often associated with a belief in universal consciousness. We looked at this some in the last episode, but now we are going to go a little deeper.

DEFINITION OF A GHOST

Let us begin by defining what a ghost is. If we look at various dictionaries and reference material, we find a common theme. Simply put, a ghost is the disembodied soul or spirit of a dead person, who can appear to the living. 

The word “ghost” has Germanic roots and in its earliest form essentially meant “breath” or “spirit.” So, when the Old English Christian translators were converting Latin to English, they substituted “ghost” for “spirit.” And that is why if you were raised like I was on the King James Bible, you read about the Holy Ghost.

The concept of disembodied spirits of dead people has been around for thousands of years. You can find stories about ghosts in ancient literature like Homer’s “Odyssey.” But the English word “ghost” did not become popular until the Medieval period.

Ironically, the King James Bible helped make “ghost” more popular. But in the King James Bible, the word “ghost” was only meant to convey the idea of a spirit. It was never meant to mean “the spirit of a dead person.” Because the definition of “ghost” changed over time to involve the dead, modern Bible translations almost exclusively use “Holy Spirit” instead of “Holy Ghost.”

DO GHOSTS EXIST?

Now that we know what a ghost is, we can ask ourselves, “Do they exist? Is there such a thing as a ghost?”

According to the materialistic view, there is no such thing as a ghost. Materialists believe that no scientific test has ever verified the presence of a ghost. Even though there are several ghost hunting TV series with lots of data, none of the evidence has yet satisfied a rigid materialistic-based scientific study.

On the other hand, depending on the form of universal consciousness you believe in, ghosts can exist although they may be defined differently than the definition I stated earlier. For example, if someone’s individual consciousness returns to the universal field it may still be recognizable as the person, or information about the person. I mentioned in the last episode that practitioners of astral projection meet dead loved ones or talk to other life forms. New Age mediums claim to connect with these beings. In some cases, these might not technically be ghosts, but they functionally are. I am going to treat them the same, although I realize there are nuances depending on your beliefs.

THE CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE ON GHOSTS

And now we come to Christianity. Does the Bible ever present the existence of ghosts? And the answer is interesting because it is sort of a yes and no. What we find is that ghosts are mentioned in the Bible.  But the Bible also seems to put limits on what a ghost could possibly be. So let us look at that.

A well-known account where ghosts are mentioned can be found in Matthew 14. This is the story of when Jesus was walking on the water. In verses 25-26 we read: 

Jesus came toward them walking on the sea very early in the morning. When the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost!” they said, and they cried out in fear.

Matthew 14:25-26 CSB

We know historically that Jewish tradition did not deny the existence of ghosts and spirits. Based on what the disciples cried out, we know they had a concept of what a ghost is. But the Bible does not say much about them, and in the New Testament Jesus never taught about ghosts or ever confronted one. The closest thing I can think of to a teaching takes place after the resurrection. The disciples were discussing the recent events when Jesus suddenly appeared to them. This is what happened:

As they (the disciples) were saying these things, he himself (Jesus) stood in their midst. He said to them, “Peace to you!” But they were startled and terrified and thought they were seeing a ghost. “Why are you troubled?” he asked them. “And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” Having said this, he showed them his hands and feet.

Luke 24:36-40 CSB

Now in these verses, it sounds like Jesus might be affirming that ghosts are real and do not have bodies. And yet, he might just be saying, “Guys, I have a body. Whatever you think ghosts might be, I am not it.” I think we need to be careful about inferring too much from these verses.

There is also a strange occurrence when Jesus is on the cross and at the point of death. Listen to this from Matthew 27:50-53…

But Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit. Suddenly, the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom, the earth quaked, and the rocks were split. The tombs were also opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And they came out of the tombs after his resurrection, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.

Matthew 27:50-53 CSB

At first glance, this appears that a bunch of ghosts were wandering around Jerusalem. But if you look carefully, these verses say that the “bodies of the saints” were raised. This was not a case of ghosts, but of people being resurrected from the dead. They were dead, but now they are alive. How wild is that? This is one of those accounts in the Bible that I wish went into more detail. Instead, God has chosen to leave us with a bunch of questions. 

There is one account in the Bible where a medium attempts to talk to the dead. As far as I know, this is the closest thing to a possible ghost story we can find in the Bible. We find this account in 1 Samuel chapter 28. Samuel has died and Israel is under attack by the Philistines. King Saul does not know what to do. Normally, Saul would have been advised by the prophet Samuel. But Samuel is no longer alive. In his desperation, Saul decides to enlist a medium to speak to Samuel, even though he himself has followed God’s words and banned them. It is a lengthy story, but I am going to read much of it using the ESV translation. Here we go…

Then Saul said to his servants, “Seek out for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.” And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a medium at En-dor.” So Saul disguised himself and put on other garments and went, he and two men with him. And they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Divine for me by a spirit and bring up for me whomever I shall name to you.” The woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the necromancers from the land. Why then are you laying a trap for my life to bring about my death?” But Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.” Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” He said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul.” The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” He said to her, “What is his appearance?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe.” And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage. Then Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?” Saul answered, “I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do.” And Samuel said, “Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has turned from you and become your enemy? The Lord has done to you as he spoke by me, for the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. Moreover, the Lord will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The Lord will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines.” Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.

1 Samuel 28:7-20 ESV

This story raises so many questions. It seems clear that Saul believed it was possible to talk to the spirit of Samuel which, by definition, would be a ghost. Is that what happened? Did Samuel appear as a ghost?

I do not think so. I believe that God did something different here. I say that because the medium cried out when she saw Samuel, as if she were surprised. I believe she was expecting something very different to happen. I used the ESV translation on purpose because in this translation she claims to have seen a god coming out of the earth. Other translations say “spirit,” but the Hebrew word used here is “elohim,” which seems better translated as “a god.” By her own words, it seems that what she saw was no ethereal spirit, but something highly visible and maybe even physical once Samuel fully appeared. I do not know.

We also see the text using expressions like, “Then Samuel said to Saul…”. In other words, the text itself seems to indicate that Samuel was indeed present. If that is the case, then maybe he was more than just a spirit. Maybe he was given a temporary body, or something like that. The reality is that the text is ambiguous. There are a few possibilities, but there is really no way to know for sure. Scholars and theologians have debated this text for hundreds of years.

Even though this story is fascinating, the most critical part has nothing to do with whether Samuel appeared as a ghost. The most critical part is that Saul was doing something forbidden by God. In fact, Saul was doing something that he himself had declared to be off limits in Israel. These verses are not meant to teach about ghosts, but they clearly show how far Saul had stepped away from God. Because of Saul’s actions, the kingship became available for David, a man after God’s heart.

Now that we have looked at some verses that seem ghost-related, can we make the statement that the Bible supports a belief in ghosts? And the answer to that is…no. In the way the Bible includes the medium of Endor, and the disciples and their concerns that Jesus was a ghost, the Bible does acknowledge a cultural belief in ghosts. In other words, the Bible does acknowledge that many people believe in ghosts, but it does not support the reality of ghosts. In fact, there are specific teachings which demonstrate that ghosts do not fit into a Biblical worldview. Let us look at those now.

BIBLICAL GHOSTS

First, we need to acknowledge that the Bible has no problem with the existence of spirits. God himself is Spirit, and the Bible is loaded with stories of spiritual beings like angels and demons. We also know that humans have a spirit in addition to their physical body. By definition, a ghost would need to be the human spirit separated from the body. Can that happen?

Well, we have already talked about brief temporary separations that seem to occur during near-death experiences and trips to heaven. But here we mean something more. With a ghost, we are talking about the human spirit in a more permanently isolated state where there is no rapid going back into the body because it is dead. In this condition a person can present themselves as a spirit without their body.

Speaking from a Protestant Christian perspective, this is what the Bible rejects because the Bible consistently presents that upon death, our spirit goes to be with God and there is no coming back. We see this in both the Old and the New Testaments.

When the writer of Ecclesiastes was talking about death in Ecclesiastes 12:7 he said,

…the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 CSB

Paul echoed the same concept in his letter to the Philippians when he wrote…

For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Now if I live on in the flesh, this means fruitful work for me; and I don’t know which one I should choose. I am torn between the two. I long to depart and be with Christ—which is far better—but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Philippians 1:21-24 CSB

Paul is saying that when he leaves his body his work is done. His body will be left behind but he will be with Christ. There is no going between where he is with Christ and the world he left behind. He is not going to go back as a spirit to be with the Philippians and do more teaching.

In Luke 16, Jesus told a story about a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. In this story, when Lazarus dies, he goes to be with Abraham. But when the rich man dies, he ends up in torment in Hades. Jesus makes it clear, that the rich man and Lazarus are separated by an uncrossable chasm. Both are where they are and there is no changing it. There is no path in existence that ever allows them to connect with each other or the living. They are where they are.

There are more verses we could look at, but they present the same thing. When we die, we are not coming back as spirits.

Now, if you were listening carefully, you may have heard me say that I am speaking from a Protestant Christian perspective. It turns out, that this is an area of disagreement between Catholics and Protestants.

Because of their belief in Purgatory, the Catholic Church has a theological space for ghosts. This is why the Saints can appear to people, and human souls can appear to ask for prayer. Protestants reject this possibility, but Catholics embrace it. Now, to be fair to Catholics, they do mention safeguards when talking to disembodied spirits. 

You may ask yourself, why does the Catholic Church believe safeguards are necessary when talking to disembodied spirits? And that is the subject of our next episode. Because if Protestant Christians do not believe that ghosts exist, then what are they? If believers of universal consciousness claim to have seen a ghost, and others claim they speak to the dead, what are they seeing or speaking to? 

If you are a materialist, then people are imagining things, or their brains are wired to cause this, or something explainable from a naturalistic perspective. But from a Christian perspective, what is going on?

CLOSING

In our next episode, we are going to look at demons and other possible reasons for seeing ghosts.  And this is very important for living a Spirit-led life.

As always, you can send me comments, suggestions, or questions, by email at glenn@spiritledhope.com, or simply use the Contact Form at spiritledhope.com. You can also send me a one-way text message by going to the episode show notes and clicking on the link with your smart phone. If you find these episodes useful, please spread the word and share them with your friends.

If you are worried about things that go bump in the night…

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope, by the power of the Holy Spirit.  

Until the next episode, take care.

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