Charlie Beljan Explains How Better Decisions Lower Your Scores Fast

We sit down with PGA Tour winner Charlie Beljan to trace his climb from junior golf to the big tour and the mentor-driven grind that shaped his game. Along the way, we unpack the mindset that wins under pressure and the simple, repeatable habits that help regular golfers score better fast. 
• Charlie’s early years in Arizona and the breakthrough U.S. Junior Amateur win 
• Steve Dallas’s role as mentor plus the work ethic that follows 
• What Q-School pressure feels like and why it beats major-championship nerves 
• The goal of playing the Masters and the PGA of America path toward the PGA Championship 
• The Disney tournament panic attack story and how “survival mode” can quiet swing thoughts 
• Handling criticism and why thick skin matters for anyone competing 
• Teaching philosophy: make the game simpler and teach playing golf over building a perfect swing 
• Course management basics: eliminate doubles, avoid hero shots, miss in the right places 
• Why wedge play, chipping, and putting create the fastest scoring gains 
• Practice that translates: simulate holes on the range and protect tempo from range to first tee 
• Reality check: even top pros mishit shots, they just recover and keep momentum 
If you're in the area, please hit him up.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Fly Hunters Golf Podcast. Uh, along with my fellow co-host Justin Tang. This is Jesse Perryman, and we welcome you to another edition. This week we've got uh former tour winner, PGA tour winner, Charlie Belgian. Charlie is originally from Arizona, great player, fantastic story. Uh, he is now transitioning from playing into teaching, and his philosophy is one of simplicity and application. I'm not going to divulge too much here in the intro because I can't say it better than he. So without further ado, Charlie Belgium. Thanks, Charlie, for coming on, pal. I'll make sure to put all of Charlie's pertinent info in the show notes, how you can get a hold of him, how you can see him in Arizona if you want to take a lesson from him. I highly recommend it. Uh, I am of the ideology that I believe that teachers should be better than you. And he certainly is better than most of us. So his wisdom and experience will certainly flow downstream and help you be the best player that you can be. Cheers, everyone. I hope everyone is having a fantastic week and playing well. And uh the season is upon us, so now's the time to really get down and dirty and get intentional with your game so that the rest of the year can be smooth sailing. Cheers, everyone. And for you longtime listeners, you know who he is. If you're a first-time listener, his name is Justin Tang. He is a lead instructor at the Hidden Castle Golf Club there in Singapore. And if you're in the area, please hit him up. He would love to see you. And our guest today is former tour winner Charlie Belgian from Phoenix, Arizona. Charlie, it's a it's uh it's a treat to have you on, pal. Thank you and welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

I it's it's uh I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to chat about whatever it is we're gonna chat about and hopefully educate the listeners and give them something uh to take home, laugh about, and a couple stories that might pique their interest.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

100%. I don't think our listeners actually laugh at the quality of information that's gonna come out of this man's mouth. I love it. Thanks, Charlie, for coming on, man. Yes, sir. You know, for for the current breed of uh golf enthusiasts, for their benefit, can you just let us know how you got into golf and your path to the PGA tour?

Mentorship And The Reality Of Q-School

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Uh I absolutely can. And so I started from a young age. My parents used to ship me to Houston, Texas, where my grandfather taught me to play the game. Um, I fell in love with it. I worked at it. I kind of dominated junior golf here in Arizona. Me and a couple other guys were the only ones that won tournaments. Um it wasn't always easy. It was nothing in life is easy. It was always a battle. I um I came from a family that was a member at a country club that shouldn't have been. We didn't have the money. My parents kind of tried to um to live a life that they shouldn't have, ended up in a lot of debt. Um, so I was a country club kid, but I wasn't a country club kid. And um ended up running across a gentleman in eighth grade that owned a couple golf courses. He gave me some money and the opportunity because my parents couldn't afford it to go play on the national level, took me under his wing, taught me the game, taught me his version of the golf swing. And uh I lo and behold, I dominated Arizona, but I was never able to afford to travel. He gave me the money. I showed up to my very first USGA event, the U.S. Junior Amateur at an Atlanta Athletic Club in 2002, the home of Bobby Jones, and I happened to win the golf tournament. And I went from a uh maybe going to a community college to having my pick of any um Division I school that I wanted to. There was a bunch I wanted to go to. I ended up at the University of New Mexico. Their coach was super supportive. Their program was incredible, their practice facility is what captured me. They had an incredible 150 yards in, different greens, different short games, stuff like that. Lo and behold, everybody asked why I didn't go to ASU or U of A. I tell parents nowadays that uh call me and say, Hey, should my kids go there? And I say, Not if they want to play pro golf. Um, Arizona is a wonderful place to play golf, but you play on perfectly overseeded grass, no wind, no elements. It's very easy, in my opinion. It does teach you to make a lot of birdies, but when you start traveling the country and the world, everywhere you go is harder than where you practice and where you play. So I went to the University of New Mexico, became an all-American uh conference player of the year, freshman player of the year, kind of did that route, got done with school, turned pro, played. I call them the barbecue tour. It's the mini tour. It's called, it's it's basically just organized gambling. Um, I dominated there. I won, I won 12 or 13 times on the gateway tour. The gateway tour was fantastic. It was three days of golf, riding with your buddies, um, drinking some beers and having some barbecues afterwards while trying to hone your game. And then each year you went to Q School. Five years in a row, I walked through the first stage of Q school. For those that don't know Q School, that's qualifying school. Anyone that's on the PGA tour will tell you that Q-School is the most dreaded, most intense, most pressure-packed. I think Xander Shoffley, a couple of years ago when he won the um British Open, uh, they asked him how much pressure it was, and he said it was nothing compared to Q-School. So there's there's a first stage, second stage, third stage. I got through first stage every year. Second stage, I never even completed the final round because I was so far behind that a 59 would have not even gotten the job done. I decided to give it one more shot, got through on my fifth try, uh, went from the barbecue tour to the big tour, didn't know anybody, didn't know the cities, didn't know the golf courses, had to figure it all out, and then happened to win my rookie season. Um, super lucky last tournament. Also shot a bunch of 80s uh in between and there trying to figure out how to chip on really tight lies and and grain and stuff like that. And then uh I had what I would consider a successful, you know, six full years on the PGA tour, and then ran into a couple um big life hiccups and had to change things around and uh decided I wanted to give back to the game. So now I teach two or three, four hours a day and try to help simplify a super complicated game and and open people's eyes to an easier way or a more efficient way to play the game, in my opinion. And that's how I ended up here.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

A lot to unpack. Can we have the name of your mentor?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Uh a guy by the name of Steve Dallas, who is about 77 years old, still goes to work every day, owns a couple golf courses here in the valley. And uh he was just he was a very strong father figure, didn't let me get away with anything, and made me practice. And and luckily I had the talent and was able to put it all together and and achieve a lot of things that I didn't know were possible.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

You know, good things happen when luck meets opportunity. So, what is Steve teach you, man? And preparation. Yes, sir. So what is Steve teach you? Was he a PGA pro?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

He he was not. He actually uh he grew up in Washington, was the head pro at Sahali. He actually gave Fred Couples during Fred Couples Hall of Fame uh speech. He thanked Steve Dallas for giving him his very first set of golf clubs. So Steve had done it all from being a head pro to being a camera salesman and then started, fell back in love with the golf business and uh and just started buying golf courses and running them. And I started working for him, scrubbing carts and clubs in seventh grade all the way through high school until I left for college. And now Steve and I still get together for 18 holes a week and uh laugh at about a lot of the old stories that we can laugh about now, why he used to bust my butt back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

You know, you say you teach a couple hours a day. Do you still play competitively or getting ready for champions tour or something along those lines? Oh man, everybody thinks I'm older than I am.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I still have another 10 years until I turn 50. Um sorry, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

No, that's okay. That's okay. You know what? Because you you you give off this vibe, like, look, look, guys, I'm retired. I just want to give back to the game. And and when was when the last time Charlie uh Belgian won was 2012? So it's it's easy to kind of associate you with, like, you know, I'm retired, I'm just getting ready for the the senior tour.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yes, sir. Um, so back to your question about competitive golf. Um, I have one golf tournament that I've never played in. I've played in every other tournament there is except the Masters. When I won on the PGA tour, I didn't get into the Masters. I lost a playoff at Riviera, where the tournament was this week. Um, I three-putted the 10th hole in a playoff, and that would have got me into the Masters. And then I got to 60, 60th in the world, about two weeks. 64th. 64th in the world, a couple weeks late and didn't get in. Um, so I had one goal to play in the masters, and about a year ago I said, Man, do I turn amateur and try to go win the mid-amateur to get me to Augusta? And somebody said, Hey, why don't you, you've already got a class A because you won on the tour. Why don't you make that go and do uh the accelerated path through the PGA of America, become active, and then you could through you could qualify for the PGA championship through the section and then through the big PPC that we have coming, that's the Club Pro Championship at Bandon Dunes at the end of April. And there's about 300 club pros there, and the top 20 go to the PGA championship. And then through the PGA championship, if you can somehow manage to finish 13th, my whole career has been lightning in a bottle. Uh, you know, play well four or five weeks a year. And I said, wow, what a great idea. And then along with becoming a member of the PGA of America, I could probably play about 10 or 12 competitive events here locally, you know, some pro pros and stuff like that, just to kind of keep my my game sharp. Um, in 10 years, I don't know where I'll be, if I'll want to do the champions or anything like that. I really enjoy raising my son, but by that time he'll be out of the house. But yes, so I'm still playing competitive. I I probably play three days a week in some money games and stuff like that. So I keep the game sharp. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Down the path of Omar Uresti. You're gonna cop a lot of flag.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Okay, well, here's the difference because yes, you're right. Omar Ureste became a life member without having to do anything. I went through and the PGA of America offered me. So if if a if a normal guy walks into a pro shop and wants to become a club pro, it's gonna take him three years. Because I had won on the PGA tour, I was gifted a class A. I had to go back and bring that up to eligible. Well, the last guy to do that did it in record pace in six months, and that was Charlie Reimer, who we've all seen on the golf channel and played. I wanted to play in this section championship. I sat in front in front of the computer for a lot of hours each day, and I did it in 23 days and passed it. And then I did it in 23 days and passed it, passed all the goods, man. I think it was about 63 quizzes I had to take and get 100% on, and then a comprehensive test over levels one, two, and three. I did that and completed it, and then was able to tee it up. And the top six guys in our section qualified for Bandon Dunes. Um, and I I finished uh, I think I finished second back in September, and that qualified me. So now we're just slowly in another about week or two. Um, I'm actually headed to the big Callaway fitting center in Carlsbad, maybe gonna look at their equipment. But in about the next two weeks, I'll start to prepare for Bandon Dunes to get me to the PGA championship at Eronymak this this uh May. Nice one.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

So, you know, you talked a little bit about uh Q school, the the pressure cooker. Just can you just walk us through about the mental game that's required to stay out there and perhaps give our listeners a glimpse into what happened in 2012 at the Disney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and how you bounce back, man.

Chasing A Major Through Club Pro Golf

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah, so I um let's see here. Um the first question about Q-School and the pressure. Um anybody that's played golf, and why I love golf is because whether you're a 15 handicap or you're a tour player, you can experience the same type of pressure. Now, obviously, the rewards are different between winning a major, winning a tour event, or winning your flight in a club championship, but the feeling of you not being able to feel your hands and your heart beating and a normal eight-iron that you could hit close to the green or on the green, and now you're wondering if you can make contact. You know, those are the kind of things that um that pressure does to you. And it's just for me, it comes down to the putter. You know, I feel it in my hands. T to green for me has always been very easy. Um, knock on wood. When I played the tour for six years, I never broke 175th in putting, I don't believe. And had I just gotten to a hundredth, that was worth 25 shots a year. So I just came off of putting one-handed for the last two years. That tells you how much of a mental midget I am. Uh, but boy, I put it beautifully like that. But I just said it's this isn't the way to do it for the rest of my life. So I'm I'm back to two hands, cross-handed, um referencing your Disney tournament. So it was my rookie season. I had a kid in September. It's November, it's the last tournament of the year. And unless I finished solo third or fourth place, I was gonna lose my job. So I had it all on the line. I uh I went out Thursday at Disney, the Magnolia and the Palm Course there in Orlando, Florida, and I posted a good round on the harder course. I think I shot two or three under, and so everything was good. I went to Friday knowing, hey, just put up a solid round and we're gonna make it cut. At this time, at this point, I gotta be honest, I pretty much counted myself as losing my card. I had no reason to believe that I could finish third or fourth. I had one good showing at the Greenbrier earlier in the year, which was a third place, and I was just like, hey, let's go make some extra money and then we'll be able to figure out where we're gonna do. Well, I'm uh I'm walking to the driving range on that Friday with my caddy, and I looked at him and I said, I said, handlebar, Rick Adcox was his name. I said, I don't feel very good. And so we called the the uh first aid or paramedics, and they came over and they said, Wow, your blood pressure is out of control, your heart's beating fast. Have you ever felt like this? And I said, No. And they said, We recommend you you probably sit this one out. And I said, Well, I can't sit this one out. This I've got 54 holes to go to make a move and see what I can do. And so, against their wishes, I lit up another cigarette, I went and hit about 15 or 20 golf balls and went to the first T. And at this point, I was I was starting to get scared. I was feeling things in my chest and in my hands that I had never felt before. And I go out and I eagle the first hole and I birdie the second hole and I birdie the third hole. And I think I shoot about five under on the front nine. And again, these numbers aren't exact. Um, but we make the turn, and I said, I said, Rick, I said, you got to call the paramedics over. I said, something isn't right. So the paramedics came over in the 10th fairway. And at that time, I'm making a move on a Friday afternoon. And so now I've got the television cameras showing up, and uh I'm laying down in the fairways between my shots. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking I'm having a heart attack. I've never felt these things before. Lo and behold, it was a panic attack, an anxiety attack on national television. I didn't know what those words meant. I I shoot a couple under on the back nine. I think I shoot eight under for the day. So that goes back to the beware of the sick golfer or the hungover golfer because all you're trying to do is, you know, get through the round. You're not thinking about how good things are going or bad things are going or swing thoughts. You're just trying to get through the round. And I remember walking off the 18th hole. I just shot 64. I walked into the scoring tent, and my buddies Jason Kokrak and a few other guys were there to congratulate me. I just started crying. And it was a it was a relief that I survived. And at that time, the cameras came busting in. The ambulance backed up to the scoring tent and they put me on a uh on a stretcher and took me to Arnold Palmos Hospital there in Orlando, where I slept in my golf shoes. They ran every possible test that they could and told me I was as healthy as could be. Like I was in great shape. So that gave me a little bit of relief. But that's when they started to explain what anxiety and panic attacks were. They gave me a little something to help me through it. And then the next day I went out and I think I shot a couple under and held on to the lead. Yeah, and I think I started Sunday with a one-shot lead. And again, I was more focused on getting through the day than thinking about, oh my gosh, what could happen if I win, won my first PGA tour event. And I will say that had I not been so focused on just completing 18 holes and and really knew what was at stake, I probably would have crumbled, but I didn't. And I was able to hold the trophy at the end and and be victorious on the PGA tour and become a PGA tour winner. And it was just something that I don't really think about until somebody brings it up. Um, but it was a remarkable experience and kind of just set the tone for the next five or six years. And you know, five weeks later, I lose in a playoff at Riv, and I'm now I'm a top, you know, six, seventy, eighty, hundred player in the world. And my whole career was just based off of uh a quick quick story of my rookie season. I'm at Pebble Beach, as a matter of fact, and a guy by the name, I'm sitting by myself, I know nobody. And a guy says, Hey kid, you mind if I sit with you? And it was Steve Jones who won the US Open at uh maybe Oakland Hills.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, after his uh unfortunate motorcycle accident.

Pressure And The Disney Panic Attack

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yes, sir. And um, he says, We start chatting back and forth, and he says, Can I give you a piece of advice? And I'm like sitting here, you know, I know everything. I'm 28 years old, I've got the world, I know everything. And he says, I just want to tell you, kid. He goes, I just want to tell you that if you think you're gonna come out here and make a bunch of cuts, you're probably wrong. He goes, You're gonna play well about five times a year, and that's how you're gonna keep your card. And this is I'm I'm on tour start number three, and I'm thinking to myself, you have no idea what you're talking about. Well, six years later, I played well about five weeks a year and missed the cut all the other times. I was I was either a guy that made the cut and moved up on the weekend, or I was headed out of there on Friday evening onto the next location. And it's funny because he lives here in Mesa, Arizona now, and he's really going through some tough health stuff. But I run into him occasionally and I always tell him that story, and when we get a nice little laugh out of it, because I told him that he was dead wrong and circle back, he couldn't have been more correct.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Back then, did you know who he was?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

I did know who he was because um I played the U.S. amateur at Oakland Hills, and uh actually, uh funny enough, how when we're talking about this, um, I drew Anthony Kim in the first round of Oakland, and I just came off winning the U.S. junior amateur, and that's how I got in the U.S. amateur. I remember him telling turning around, and I knew who he was. He had no clue who I was. So I knew who Anthony Kim was, so did the rest of the world. And he turned around on the first T and told everybody he was gonna beat me. Well, he didn't realize I was gonna make about 150 feet of putts that day, and I ended up beating him one up on the last hole. And so uh I actually sent him about an email about two or three weeks ago just telling him how proud I was because we both are going kind of down the same journey of getting sober and being sober and and giving back. And uh he reached back out and responded, and then it was so cool to see him win last week and just what he's overcome because that guy's got more talent than 99.9% of the guys that have ever touched a golf club. And unfortunately, he went down the wrong path, disappeared for a decade, but he's ready. Emerging as a star, and I can't wait to see where uh he takes himself.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah. Yeah, it's nothing short of incredible, right? What he's done with his game, beating guys like Bryson and John Rahm. Yeah. Yeah. Quite amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

And I did am I correct to say that he started like four or five back?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah, I think so. I think he was five back going into the final.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Five back going into the last day paired with Rahm and D. Chambeau. You couldn't ask for a bigger stage, and he rose to the top, and it was just really, really neat to see.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, you know the haters who say stuff about Bryson and Ram, but you know what? Quality is quality, man. These guys are multi-major winners. Exactly. Yeah. It's no flute. I don't care like what tour it is. To come back after being out for so long, to win on any tour, I think that's a major accomplishment.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

And how about when he did when he did come back? It was miscut, miscut, last place cut. I mean, the faith that he kept and the belief that he kept in himself when everybody was telling him no and his game was showing poor scores. It was just rust. He had to get it off, and I'm excited to see where he's gonna take this momentum.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah, you know, I would love to speak to Anthony, and I've reached out to him a couple of times. He's like, hey, you know, it's not the right time. But I'd be really, really interested in speaking to guys like yourself and uh Anthony about the mindset that's needed to stay out there and just to ignore all this crap that people are putting out in front of you, especially the guys in uh on social media and traditional media. It's it's almost a skill to be able to look at all those things, but yeah, you know what, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

It it is a skill, you're right. And you've got to have some thick skin because as as many people that pat you on the back, it seems like there's three times as many people that want to knock you down. And um I I'm on no level of Anthony Kim or any of those guys, but it just makes me laugh when I read some of the comments and some of the stories that have come out from people that, and I'm not knocking anybody, that have not even stepped foot or walked a step in these guys' shoes. I mean, I remember playing the tour and I would hit one offline, and you know, everybody would congregate around you, see how close they could get. And then I would hit a bad shot right there when everybody's on top of me. And I remember hearing whispers of people saying I could do better than that. And my favorite thing to do was I would look at my caddy, and he knew, and he would pitch me a ball in a club, and I would walk over to that person and I'd say, show me right in front of everybody, and the whole crowd would go, ooh, and not one person ever took me up on my offer to hit that golf ball in front of that. Show me, but everybody's got an opinion and a mouth on them until you put them on the spot, and then things change.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, because the game of golf looks looks so easy by virtue of the ball not moving. It's not like we've got a pig skin and running around, and and people from outside think like it's easy. It's not easy because the ball's there looking at you and saying, saying to the golfer, show me. Show me. That's the difficulty.

Thick Skin And Teaching Simplicity

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yep, yeah. It's not they're not throwing it at you at 100 miles an hour, the ball's not curving, it's sitting right there. And you know, I've only been in this teaching thing for two and a half years, and I'll be the first to tell you that there's a million people that know way more about the golf swing than me. But I thought from junior golf to competing at the highest level, I had seen it all. And now every day when I get to go teach somebody the questions I'm asked, the things that I see, it it really puts into perspective what I was able to achieve because I am really realizing, seeing the average weekend amateur, how hard this game is and what it really takes to be successful. Um, and like I said, there's so many people that know so much more about the golf swing, but I don't want to teach you the golf swing. I want to teach you to play golf. And that's my approach to it. Um, and my my my lesson book says that I'm successful because people keep coming back and I'm full every day. But what I pride myself off of is like the gentleman I taught today, he goes, I've taken lessons from A to Z and you made it so simple and so easy. And I could remember I would get on a plane and and fly to Butch Harmon or Matt Kilgareth or a bunch of other guys, and not those two specifically, but other lessons I would take. I'm like, I'm really talented at what I do, and I put in a lot of time, and you're gonna make my head explode because I can't comprehend what you're saying, or you're not saying it a way in which my brain is saying, ah, that's what he means. And there were so many lessons where I would write an individual their check, their fee, and hand it to him halfway through, and I'd head back to the airport because I just couldn't do it. Not to say that those people are wrong, but if I couldn't comprehend it and put the time in and figure it out, what makes you think the average Joe, the weekend golfer, the person that doesn't want to embarrass him themselves in a in a in a in a uh a charity scramble or a work scramble, how can I make it easier for them? And that that's what I'm trying to do is just make a super hard, complicated game a little bit easier for people.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

And that's the Charlie Belgian philosophy right there. Yes, sir. You know, I I want to go back to Disney. I think there's a lesson right there. You said that all you wanted to do was to get it over and done with. And in doing that, you kind of ignored what was not important, how your swing looked. What you were trying to do. You were almost on autopilot. So that's the mental game lesson right there for us. I was on autopilot. Which basically is take take the next shot in your stride. The most important shot is the next shot, not the leaderboard. Yes, it's important, but no, it's not important, not compared to the shot at hand. And you're just going through autopilot and your uh pre-shot routine, if you will. You were surviving. Literally, you were surviving out there.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Exactly. I I didn't have any swing thoughts. I didn't care if I mishit a ball, if I mishit it. My flop, my my uh little saying that I've always had in the competitive is I just want to make my next shot better than my last. Doesn't have to be perfect, but if I can improve my next shot, if I if I got into the trees, how the heck do I get out of them where the worst score I make is five? I I uh I never tried to hit the hero shot. And it's so funny. Through the I do a bunch of playing lessons and I get out on the course with whether it's a uh a five handicap or a or a 15 handicap, and I say, hey, what are you thinking here? And and they're telling me the shot they're gonna hit. And I'm thinking to myself, I wouldn't even try to hit the shot that you're describing. And I have a hundred times the talent that you do and the capabilities. And that's where I just keep seeing my little niche is is I want to I want to get people to think differently, play the percentages, play the shots that they can hit instead of the shots that they think they can hit. There's a big difference between the shots people can hit and the shots they can actually hit. And I want to make people realize, hey, here's here's where your your strength is. It's not hitting an eight-iron at 180 yards. It just doesn't happen, you know. Instead, let's let's just take an extra club and swing a little bit easier and and make our misses in front of the green instead of gosh knows where. That's that's all I'm trying.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

I I gotta make a comment on that. And uh on on this basis, uh, the vibe that we're on, gents. You know who plays this way? The best flipping player in the world.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Scotty Scheffler.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

He doesn't try anything that's egregious or dumb or stupid. Nope at all. At all. At all.

Play The Percentages Not Hero Shots

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah, you gotta give credit to Randy Smith, right? Randy could have gone down the path of uh let's let's ground force this, let's 4D this, let's 6D this and that. I'm pretty sure Randy uses technology to to confirm what he sees or believes as a backup just to fact check. But I don't think he's caught up with all these uh Greeks, uh geeks bearing Greeks. I have not seen in my limited experience a guy starting to win because, oh look, coach, I've got all my trackman numbers down, I've got all my 3D numbers perfect. Never seen anything like that. But what I frequently see is oh, you know, I'm just going back to how I used to play the game, like Colin Morikau. Yes. His breakthrough win. He he never cited, like, you know, now now I'm perfectly zeroed out. So full credit to guys like Randy Smith, Pete Cowan, as well as uh Boot Charman and Claude Harmon. Coaches that uh I highly respect, who again use data in their teaching but are not uh close to other forms of instruction.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I I couldn't agree more with you. And and going to the track man numbers and that, people always ask me what I think. I I I I don't use technology. The only technology I use is my cell phone, and that's me videoing you while I talk into the phone. We're not when you come to me, we're not gonna draw lines and look at video. I'm gonna wear you out because we're gonna hit golf balls and you're gonna get a feel. And in my opinion, I did use a track man or a flight scope or whatever it was, but I used it for my carry numbers. I was never looking at my path into out or my steepness or anything like that. And I truly believe that technology and in the in the track man world and in the simulator world has made golfers worse. I really believe that. The the average golfer, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

The average golfer, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

The the elite are different, those guys can do things differently. Um, but the average weekend golfer should not be worried about their path and and and whatever other information they're absorbing from those. It's just too much, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Yeah. And and I go with my students, like, sure, we could we could rock out uh all the radar, but what are you gonna do with all the numbers that I'm gonna give you?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

You're gonna be thinking about them when you're trying to perform, and that's not what you should be thinking about.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Exactly. Yeah. You know, I was really uh taken by one of your your videos where he's laughing.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I know exactly which one you're gonna talk to about.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

No, no, not the one you're talking about, the one where you're using just your right hand and talking about applying the club face to the ball. And in my opinion, I think that's that's the golf thing. Because if you don't know how to put the side of the club face to the side of the ball, you have nothing to stand on.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I I couldn't agree more. And I I have a right-hand motion that I teach a lot of people, not everybody, because there's other things you got to go, but if you can put the club face square on the back of the ball, it doesn't matter if you're a little over, if you're a little under. If you can make contact with a square club face and we can get the golf ball going relatively straight versus way right into the woods or way left into the water, it's gonna take your scores from high to low. And it's only one thing to think about. It's not 15. And I was guilty. I used to have 12 swing thoughts, you know, and it just never worked out for me. And I don't think it works for the vast majority of the population that play.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, and and I like how you progress through the drill. And I left the way with look, if everyone can just do that, put aside what they actually look like while they're making that motion of putting the sweet spot to the side of the ball. That's that's just the look, that's just the paint work on the car. But let's get the engine working.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Let's get the engine work, let's get, let's get something that we can repeat. Who cares what it looks like? Why I have horrible posture, a weak left-hand grip, but I can continually put that square club face on the back of the ball. And as I've gotten older, I've just had to realize well, hey, when I played the tour, Bubba Watson and I always went back and forth between longest drives. But I also was close to leading the tour in double bogeys. So who cared that I hit it far? Now I go play with these kids that hit it 50 yards by me and humbly, humble me. But I've understood that, hey, I'm gonna hit 13 fairways where I'm gonna beat you is by you making one or two bad swings and getting penalties. But more importantly, where I've learned is if I strengthen my wedge game and just continually give myself wedge opportunities, and I'm hitting it closer than you from maybe 20 or 30 yards back, I'm gonna have more looks, more opportunities, and shoot a lower score. And I'm not gonna make that big number, that double or triple that just really ruins not only the scorecard, but your momentum and your confidence.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

And can you talk to our listeners about uh golf swing fashion teachers? So, what what I mean by that is I'll have six foot four Charlie Daljan coming in, and oh look, Young Wussenum won this week, five foot two. Let's get you swinging like Young Wusnum. Yeah, right, because Yan Wusnum's rotational and all the uh has all the buzzwords in his swing. Yeah. Can you can you talk a little bit about that and how our listeners should think about golf swing aesthetics versus golf swing function?

Why Tech And Swing Thoughts Backfire

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Well, I think that we shouldn't even talk about golf swing aesthetics because who cares? You can have I have buddies that have the most beautiful swing I've ever seen, but they can't put a score on the scorecard. I think that the average, like when I teach, people say, Well, I'll tell you, if you want to reinvent your wheel, go somewhere else. I'm not your guy. One, I really don't have the necessarily the self-confidence to rein-invent somebody's wheel. But what I want to do is take your couple broken spokes and repair those and send you on your way. And and what I've learned, and my favorite saying with, and I use it with almost every single student, is most people set up to suck hoping to succeed. Let me set you up to succeed to where your body can work naturally. And then if you hit a bad shot, it's called golf. We're all gonna hit them. But when the majority of people that I see aim at 30 yards right and then wonder why they come over the top or they have a terrible left-handed grip. And so the club face is wide open, and the only way to, you know, square it, I don't believe in aesthetics. I I actually never have. I never was really, just like I wasn't into the track man, and I'm not into like when I travel, I would rather lose my clothes than I would rather lose my clubs than my clothes because I'm just not that infatuated with it. I mean, I have a guy on speed dial, and I'm sure you've seen it. I I tag him Old Town Golf. And if if there's an equipment question or a shaft question, I just call him and put him on speakerphone because I'm not gonna pretend to know what I don't know. And so we ask them, but I just feel that everybody is so caught up in the right shaft and the right swing path and everything like that. How about let's get the fundamentals correct, like Nicholas and Hogan always talk about, and then the rest, your body will naturally find its way. That's that's how I approach it. But you can't have, and and then the other thing that drives me crazy, and I would never speak ill of any type of coach, but you can't teach the person that plays eight times a year to swing it like a guy that's swinging it on tour, you know? You've got you've got to teach each end to player, each player individually, and you can notice what their strengths are and what their weaknesses are. And hey, at least if I can eliminate one side of the golf course, your confidence is gonna go up and your score is gonna go down. And then you can start to kind of manage your way around the game or the golf course. But so many people, it baffles me that in today's game, the majority of people I would see would rather have one golf ball down the fairway over 300 while the other 12 are in backyards or in the desert, because that's cool. But what happened to getting the ball in the least in the hole in the least amount of shots possible, you know? And uh, it was funny. I I made a quick video today and I took a video of the short game area, the chipping and the putting green. I was there for two and a half hours, and not one person outside of my students came there. Meanwhile, I panned around to the driving range and it was loaded with people. And everybody, it's not glamorous to practice the chipping and the putting. I understand, but if you want to lower your score, that's the easiest way to do it, you know, because I used to spend a lot of time with Dr. Bob Rotella, who was recently for your listeners that don't know, he was the guy that helped Rory just win this uh this master's this last year. And um Bob Rotella was just instrumental in getting me to see different things. And what he told me, and what really resonated with me is it's it's a lot easier to repeat solid fundamental chipping and putting because there's really no swing speed. You can't go out there and be on every single day at 100 miles an hour or 110 plus, but what you can be on every day with or less off would be your short game, your chipping and your putting. And how many people do I see that hit two beautiful shots and they're pin high and just off the green, and then they walk away with a double bogey because they can't chip or putt, you know?

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Well, I gotta make reference to again to the best player in the world, Scotty Scheffler. You know, everybody talks about his footwork, how his turn, you know, whatever they call it idiosyncratic. But one thing that they miss about Scotty is a what we pointed out before, he doesn't do anything dumb out there. No, and and B, he's one of the top 10, top five wedge players. I mean, his wedge game is a joke. It's a joke.

Fundamentals Over Aesthetics Plus Short Game

SPEAKER_01 41:23

That's what changed Dustin Johnson, right? Yeah, 100%. Dustin Johnson got a track man, only looked at his carry numbers and became he took him, he was a great player and he went to a a hall of famer, in my opinion, when he started working on his wedges. When I go to the range now, the longest club I take is a nine-iron that goes 150 yards, depending on the time of year. And I hit balls from 80 to 150 because on pretty much every hole minus a par three, I'm gonna be able to get myself within 150 or 160. But what I'm not gonna do, and when I work with a lot of these college players and I'm watching them hit five irons, a hundred of them, I'm like, what are you doing? And if you can get good from the 80 to 150, there's your scoring clubs. But more importantly, you start to develop rhythm and tempo and you can feel things in your golf swing because you're not going full bore, hopefully. And if you are going full boar at 80 to 150, you need to tone it down. But what I've noticed with not only my game, but a lot of the people that I help is that as I get them to practice their wedges more, all of a sudden their seven irons better, their hybrids better, their five wooden driver are better because they're starting to understand that, hey, we're just swinging the golf club and taking instead of taking some vicious lash at it and hoping, let's control the golf ball and watch what happens.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

I think a lot of people misunderstand that the swing is the game. The swing just gets you into the game, but it's not the game. It's not other things to to look at. You know, with that in mind, can you talk to us about what good players misunderstand about getting better? So I'm talking about guys on the barbecue tour trying to get onto the main tour. And you know, these guys are like seeing XYZ coaches, fixing their diet, not saying that it's not important. Getting fit, I'm not saying that it's not important. And then doing all these other stuff to try to get to the next level. Like, can you talk to us about what what the potential misunderstandings they are in your own journey as you made the switch to the big leagues?

Thinking That Separates Tour Levels

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Um, I was blessed with distance back in the day when everybody didn't hit it far. Um, and so I believe that's why I was able, because like I mentioned to you, the most important part of the game, my um the great equalizer, putting, I always fail that. But I also mentioned to you that Tita Green has always been very easy for me. But when I work with these kids, whether they're mini tour players. Players right now. We've got the Asther Tour here in Phoenix, which is probably the biggest mini tour. If you're trying to get to the next level, you come play the Asther Tour. And I watch the guys that continually finish in the top 10 or top 15 while the rest of the guys donate to the field. Yes, those guys, everybody hits it long now. But what those guys don't do is they don't make double bogeys. They don't string together two or three bogeys in a row, and they just play to their strengths. I believe that each player has a strength, whether it's distance, whether it's putting, whether it's chipping, whether it's wedge game, whether it's the way you think. And I feel that you've got to take, in the rare cases that you get a Tiger Woods and a Scotty Scheffler, they kind of have the entire package is their strength, you know. Scotty, he struggled for a while in putting and be made that his strength. And now what, 18 top tens in a row? Um, you don't just do that if you're not solid all the way around. But these kids, what I try to, what I try to communicate to them is that it doesn't matter how far you hit it. What matters is can you think when when you miss a golf shot, you need to miss it in the proper place. And that's what Scotty Scheffler does. You need to, you need to understand, and a lot of these guys, when they play the barbecue tour and then they happen to get to the next stage, they're used to firing at flagsticks. What you have to understand in my eyes, for the guys that make it to the next stage is that it's okay to aim 20 feet right or left. And it's okay to string together a few pars in a row, you know? But you can't take on every flagstick because as you progress, the penalty gets worse and worse for a missed shot. I could go out and play my local course here and fire at every flagstick. And if I miss the green, I can still chip it in. That's not the case on the PGA tour. There is a short side, and occasionally you can draw a perfect lie or clip the ball perfectly. But a lot of times when you miss it on the wrong side of the hole, the best you can do is 10 or 15 feet, you know? And on top of the best you can do is 10 or 15 feet. The most important thing you do is give yourself the 10 or 15 footer. Don't try to be the hero and then turn what could be a putt at par, worst case a bogey, into a double. And what I see these young guys do is they just compound their mistakes. And I referenced back to earlier when I said I try to make my next shot better than my last. A lot of these kids struggle with that is because they then they got themselves in trouble and now they want to hit the hero shot to make up for it. And that's how they make the big numbers. And that's what I see so many amateurs golfers do. They they hit one into the woods, or, or maybe they, you know, they come up short and the pen's tucked over a bunker and they say, Oh, I'm just gonna hit the perfect shot, and then they leave it in the bunker, and then they do whatever else they do. And I I really truly believe that I have two or three gentlemen that come in from out of town, and I've never once worked with them on their swings. We do playing lessons and we talk course management, and I'm able to work with them on their short games there. But these guys have knocked five, 10, 12 shots off their games because they're not trying to be heroes and they're not trying to hit shots that they're not capable of, or maybe they're capable of one out of 20. Well, guess what? I don't want to hit that shot that I'm one out of 20 on. I want to hit the shot that, you know, I know that 70% of the time I'm gonna pull off. And I'm a big believer that um I can go out and I play a couple rounds and I don't care if I shoot 68 or 62. I pride myself off of not making a bogey because that means I thought well and I executed well. And I know that not making a bogey is not very realistic for most, but not making a triple or not making a double becomes realistic for the average golfer because execution, everybody can execute to a certain level. But if you're trying to hit that five-iron over the water and and and when realistically you could have hit that nine iron short of the water and then hit it on, and and maybe you make the putt, maybe you don't. But now you try to hit the shot that you're gonna pull off once and never, and that's where you start to make your big numbers. And I I think, I think nowadays everybody is super physically talented. They hit it long, they have the shots. What separates the guys is the way they're able to think around the golf course. I mean, look at Tiger. Tiger back in his day, he hit it in the trees, he hit it everywhere, but he was just able to then get himself to where he had eight feet. And back in the day, when Tiger had eight feet, you went to the bathroom because you knew he was gonna make it, you know. But um, and that's the same thing you're seeing with Scotty and guys like that. I mean, but Bryson's fun to watch. It's great to watch somebody hit at 400, how he hits it as straight as he does, but that's an anomaly. He hits more balls in two days than people hit in a year, and so he can do those things.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

So, in sum, the quality of your thinking will help you improve your golf scores. Regardless of your handicap from 24 to plus four. Yes, yes. Answers my my my opinion is that that's that's the takeaway from your experience, at least. And from what you experience yourself and what you've seen people do.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Correct. Yep. I because I play with these kids now that can vomit by me. And I just I I I know what the strengths of my game are, and so I play to those. And even if I get a couple behind, I never try to push because if I just keep plotting my way around the golf course and not making mistakes, I'm gonna let them make the mistakes. But yes, I believe picking up a Dr. Bob Rotella book, golf is not a game. The book Golf is not a game of perfect by Dr. Bob Rotella is what took me from five years of missing Q school to then getting my PGA tour card. Not because I hit it further, not because I hit it higher. That book, I probably read it, I've probably read it 50 times now. I could quote it up and down. That book is what took me from five years of misery, being successful on the mini tour, winning 10, 12, 13 times, but failing every time when it came to the qualifying school. That book is what took me to the next level. And I could tell you a hundred people that I've given the book to that could tell you the exact same thing. And it might not be to the level of the tour, but it might be competing in their club championship or winning the third flight, and now they get to play in the second flight. So, yes, I would say thinking better will help everybody from a plus four to a 24.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

It's a great book. And you know what? We're gonna put a link to Dr. Rothella's book on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

I should start to get royalties because I've given this book to so many people for this guy, and he's he's a wonderful man too.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

You know, back to what uh Dr. Bob's saying, right? It's it's not how in golf, but how many. The box on the scorecard is only big enough to write a number. It doesn't have your instructor's uh website, doesn't have his philosophy, doesn't have the swing thought that you're using. So it's a fun of uh discussing this with Jesse. There are days where I just go from sitting down to showing up on the golf course, you thin your drive, then you blade a five-iron on, and then you make birdie, and then you go like there you go.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

You hit two miserable shots. You know, all you need to make a par is one good shot. That's it. Yes, and that's I I truly believe that. You can clank it around for three and make the putt. You could hit a 400-yard or 300-yard T-shot, sap the wedge, blade the chip, and make the putt, or chip it in. You just need one good shot to make a par.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

And you know the thing about putting the putter is an eraser. It can erase your your mystics off the tea into the green and your chip. But as you as you alluded to earlier, putting green is always empty. Yes, always empty.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

And you know, my first real humbling experience with that is I was playing in uh, I don't remember where I was, but I was paired with Justin Leonard and Tim Clark. And I was I was 70 yards by these two gentlemen. But you know who putted first every single time? Me. Because they were better with their seven irons and their hybrids than I was with my wedges. And so my length did not do me any good. And that's when I started to kind of figure it out. But putting is the great equalizer. I've got a I play a money game with the same three, four other guys for the last five years every Thursday morning. And we have a 65-year-old gentleman who since we've moved up a couple T boxes. So instead of 50 yards behind us, he's only 20 yards behind us. But the guy makes more putts than any of us. He gets no strokes, and he's always competitive. He's always competitive because he makes uh he may, you know, he runs in one third, one 30-footer, but from six, seven feet and in, that guy is automatic, and that's what keeps him. He can miss a green, get it up and down. Meanwhile, I hit it to 12 feet, missed the putt, he hit it the left rough, he hit it in the right bunker, he hit it to six feet, he made the putt, we tied the hole. Got putting is the great equalizer.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

And and also you you talked a little bit about what I call the translation tax. If your practice does not resemble what the field of play requires of you, you're gonna have to pay a tax when you should eventually show up. I see a bunch of guys taking 10 golf balls, talk it on the green from I don't know, 12 feet, and they're trying to do the same thing, trying to haul every putt. That's just setting themselves up for disappointment when on the first green, the first putt 30 feet away, a three-jacket. And then they wonder, like, what's going on? Yes, sir. I couldn't agree more. Yep. And I go ahead. How should elite juniors and elite amateurs practice so that the field of play becomes a whole lot easier?

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Well, I I think that you need to practice how you play. Yes, if you've got to work something, set up your station and go. But a lot of the the the guys that I work with, and to be honest, I'll the way I'll prepare for Band and Dunes is I'm really gonna dial in my chipping and putting, or my chipping really, because I know it's gonna be really windy. So I'm gonna miss some greens. So I need to make sure I can get it up and down. But boy, when I quit doing four and five hour range sessions, which I know the majority of listeners don't have time, but let's say they have an hour to kill and they go spend an hour on the range. When I gave up the range sessions and started playing golf and going and playing three or four or five holes or the front nine versus sitting on the range, that really took my game to another level. Um, because I can, and it's it's the same thing. The the number one question I get teaching is Charlie, how come I can hit it great on the range? And then I go to the first T and everything goes haywire. I said, Well, here's the beautiful thing. You didn't lose your golf swing from your 50-yard walk to from the range to the T. What you lost is your tempo. And so many people, it's easy to hit balls good when you just rake them. There's no consequences, you're swinging free. Well, that's how I need to get you to swing it on the golf course. I know that's a big leap to get people to do, and it's a lot easier said than done. But you need to practice how you play. And so if that means you got a small bucket, well, let's think about four holes in your brain that normally give you a hard time. And let's make a little fairway on the driving range and let's see if you can pull out your driver and hit the fairway. And then if you can, let's find a pin out there that's you know what would normally be your next shot in 130. And then let's hit that, you know. Let's practice how we play because raking one ball after another, it I mean it passes time. And I guess if you're working on something, it'll help, but you better be working on something diligently, the majority of people, you know. But practice how you play. Picture that shot in your head and and make a you know, make a little uh a make-believe fairway or a green on the course, and then and then go hit it. That way, when you get on the course, you you'd say, Hey, I've done this on the range and you've got that vision, and now you feel a little more comfortable and confident. I mean, golf is a game of confidence, let's be real.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

That's Dr. Bob Rotella.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

100%. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

100% golf is yeah, you know, I t I tell I tell some of my juniors the only time you ever hit two drivers consecutively is when the first one goes out of bounds.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Great point. Yes, of that. I love that.

Practice Like You Play And Pros Miss

SPEAKER_02 57:32

And uh, you know, I gotta I always like to ask tour players this question because um, you know, the the normal, I think the the normal golfer has this strange ideology that tour plays just never miss hit shots, just don't they just go out, it's a stripe show every time they play. So just in in a good week out there, Charlie, out of four rounds, how many rounds in a good week would you say you hit it the way you wanted to?

SPEAKER_01 58:09

One or two?

SPEAKER_02 58:10

And that's in a good week. And that's in a good week.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah. I would you know, funny that you just brought that up. I remember 2008, I qualified for my very first U.S. Open. I'd never played the Corn Ferry Tour, never played the PGA tour. I went through locals and sectionals. I got there, I was so nervous. And I get and I get paired with uh in a practice round, I get paired with Luke Donald, who at the time was really on top of his game. And I get paired with Boo Weekly. And we're going around the front nine of Tory Pines, and I remember watching Luke Donald top a ball from the middle of the fairway with like a three-wood. And the relief I felt because I thought that every shot was hit so perfectly. I remember watching Boo Weekly blade a greenside bunker shot 60 yards over the green, and he laughed about it. And I was like, oh my gosh, these guys aren't perfect. And they aren't. And but every here's the problem you turn on TV on the weekend, you've got the best players on the world on top of their games. And yes, it looks like they only. But what about the other 75 guys that are gone and went home because they hit the duck hook, they hit the slice. I remember playing with Aaron Badley, and I was like, how does this guy on the tour? Because he would be in the next fair way over on every hole, but boy, from 50 feet to two inches, every ball hit the hole on the putting green, you know. Since then he's got it under down. But nobody goes throughout a round, throughout a nine, hitting every shot the way they wanted. I I just I remember that feeling of when Luke Donald topped a ball from the middle of the fairway on a par five, and I was like, oh my gosh, this they're not perfect. And and the amount of relief that I felt, because they're not. It's a hard game. You're swinging the club at a stable ball at 110 miles an hour, and it's not gonna go perfect every time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

What are some wild things that you've seen on the golf course? Like guys that you you know, you look at a single uh he's got a swing only his mother with love. And then when when he comes back, you see his name on the leaderboard. It's like, how did that happen? Some wild things that I've seen on the golf course.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

I think you know, this will be a good story for your listeners. This isn't wild, but one of my favorite stories that I tell so many times, it was my rookie season, and I'm playing with G BJ Sing. And at that time, he was he was much younger and he was on top of his game. And we stood on the 18th hole, and and I think I had him by one shot. And I said, Mr. Singh I said, what do you think of my game? And he says, Well, kid, as long as straight as you hit it, you were built for out here. He goes, but your wedges suck. And he goes, If I were you, I would either putt with my eyes closed, putt left-handed, or I'd quit. And I remember just standing there, like, I've idolized you and watched you forever. I said, Okay, Mr. Singh. I said, Well, thank you. I said, Well, what do you recommend? And this is how I got into the 150 yards and in. He goes, if I were you, we have a week off. I'd go home and I'd practice 150 yards and in. Do not hit a single club that goes further than 150 yards. I did it for a week and I went to the McGladry, McGladry, McGladgery Classic in Sea Island, Georgia, and I finished eighth. And I was like, whoa, there's something to this. Then I had another week off, came home 150 yards and in. Then I show up and I win Disney. Um, and he, I owe it to him, and I still I I went out to the Charles Schwab Cup here at Phoenix and I saw him, and we talked about it or whatever. But um, I'm trying to think of some wild, some uh a good wild story that I'm anything. Um tell me a little bit more. What kind of wild do you want?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

I mean, I could go down John Daly and tell you why like like things things like like you know, people assume that golf pros need a perfect golf thing to pull as a lowest score, but I've seen like pretty wild things like like, for example, Eamon Darcy. I wouldn't put Colin Montgomery in that bucket, but the guy actually won seven consecutive order of merit titles in Europe at a time when Sevi and Nick Fowler was winning. Like, look, I I don't really care like what tour you do that on. Like any tour, that's pretty darn impressive. But no one talks about let's teach the Colin Montgomery model. That's kind of wild thing. That's what I'm referring to.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Yep, I got I understand. Now I'm gonna have to think for a second because I've been so caught up in telling people not to swing so hard in that. Um you know, a guy like Rory Sabatini, Rory Sabatini, South African, took me under his wing. That guy could top it, he could hit the most wicked snap hook that you'd ever seen. But when he pulled that sand wedge out of his bag around the green, I was glued because he could do things with that sand wedge and hit shots and spin them and was so creative. But um let's see. Ernie Ells picked, I spent a lot of time with Ernie Ells. Ernie Ells, one of the most, the big easy, one of the most beautiful things that we'd ever seen. I've seen Ernie Ells hit more shanks than anybody, you know. Um, but he just didn't let it affect him. Colin Montgomery was a great example. I mean, Justin Leonard was a guy that couldn't hit it out of his shadow, and kind of why he had to to to really take a leave from the tour when he was 44 or 45 because he couldn't hit it far enough to compete, and now he's on the champions and he's doing great. But there's just so many ways to play this game and get it done. There's no um, I feel like we're just in this bomb and gouge era where everybody wants to swing as hard and go find it and try to score from there. Well, the difference is the the everyday amateur that doesn't work because then they bomb and gouge it when they do find it. They're either 70 yards from the rough and they have no idea how to hit a high soft one and you know get it to stay on the green. And I don't know. I I'm waiting for the the right story to hit me to tell your tell your viewers about uh a one, but it's just not coming to me yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Like like Todd Hamilton, for example.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Oh, there you go. Yeah, Todd Hamilton, Sean McKeel. Yeah, bunch of guys like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Uh you had Sean on before.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Sean was a great guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Yeah, Sean's a great guy. Yeah, hit that seven iron to a foot to win the PGA championship, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Um Ben Curtis. There's another guy, Ben Curtis. I haven't heard that name in a decade, you know, but he's figured out how to win a British Open.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Uh his first attempt.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

And his first attempt, yes, absolutely.

Bandon Prep Modern Scoring And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 1:05:17

Oh, but I guess you could argue that growing up where he was, I think was Texas. Conditions are kind, kind of similar.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Very similar, Texas. And that's I went to school in Albuquerque, New Mexico. People said, why'd you pick there? It was it taught me so much about my game because I I grew up in Arizona. I call it we play in a dome. If we get a five mile an hour breeze in Arizona, everybody freaks out. I went to Albuquerque and I learned how to play in 40 miles an hour wind every day and during the spring. And um for me, I've only been to Bandon Dunes one time. And I walked off the golf course all five days in a row because it was raining, it was windy, it was cold, it was miserable. I'm at a point in my life where I want to ride in a golf cart, I want manicured, and I want good weather. However, now because I have the tournament at Band and coming up in about six or seven weeks, I want the grossest, ugliest, coldest, windiest weather you can because I feel one, I can control my golf ball better than the majority of those guys. And two, if I just have a good attitude and I'm mentally tough, I've already beat 90%. It's why Jack Nicholas said that the easiest tournaments to win were majors. Because all you had to do by the time you took out the guys that, you know, had a bad attitude, couldn't hit it in the fair way, he only had to beat about 10 or 12 guys, you know? And the PGA, I would love to see that come back to the PGA tour where Parr is a great scorer. Now, you know, everybody, I mean, how about teeing off on a Thursday and you look at the leaderboard and you hadn't hit a shot and you're nine back, you know? Like we've we've we've lost the art of getting the ball in the fairway and and getting the ball on the green and said now let's just send it. But that's that's how the game is. So you better you better adapt or you better be really good at something else.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

That's a lot of stuff that we've covered in the last hour. Jesse, you've got any last questions? No, this is been within your body for Charlie.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Fantastic. This is great. Charlie, really appreciate you coming on and sharing your wisdom. And uh, and uh you know, there there's a great saying that my my friend and I have. Very simple. Simple isn't always easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

That is true. That's so, you know, I mean uh there is there is a difference between simple and simpler. I think guys like Charlie take a complex motion like the golf swing and make it simpler.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Yeah, uh very well put, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

Yeah, yeah, we like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Beautiful, we love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Will you just send me this whenever you guys release it or where I can watch it or listen to it?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

You'll be the first one to get it, pal.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Wonderful. And uh, if you guys ever want me on down the road or any questions, I'd I'd love to come back and I yeah, we'd like to catch up with you in your run-up or maybe post-bandon.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Yeah, it would be really nice to talk about your experience because we've got a lot of listeners who are kind of at that level in their games. So if you want to take it to the next level, it'd be nice to get it from a guy like you who's been around the track like twice.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

Well, hopefully after Bandon, and hopefully I finish top 25 there, and before I go to the PGA championship, we'll get together.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

There we go. Then you get to the mass uh that's where Jesse hangs out every year.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:48

You never know. You never know. I'm just gonna keep giving it my all. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:53

The routine for you, Charlie. That's right, Charlie. We're we're huge fans. Thanks for coming on. Yes, sir. You guys, Charlie.