Episode 86: Whose Idea Was It Anyway?- A Conversation About Credit & Creativity

Perhaps the most important podcast I've recorded to date, listen into this conversation I had with Profe Morgan Bennett, about the importance of ending Beg, Borrow, Steal culture, and instead shift to one of "Ask, Acknowledge, Appreciate". 

To connect with Morgan, follow her on Instagram at: @Profe_Bennett

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Transcript

Annabelle Williamson 

Welcome back to teaching la vida loca, the podcast you come to for short and sweet and sometimes spicy episodes full of enthusiasm, magic and tips and tricks for your classroom. I'm Annabelle, your maestra loca, and I'm here to bring you inspiration, unapologetic authenticity, and ideas, to spark more joy in your teaching journey. I'm turning up the excitement and elated to have you right here with me. I'm not just your host, I'm your cheerleader, and I'm thrilled you're tuning in. So, let's do this. Let's tackle teaching la vida loca together. Hello. Welcome to Episode 86 of teaching la vida loca. I’m so glad you're here, because I am quite certain that this is the most important podcast I have ever recorded. And you're so lucky because you don't just get to hear from me today. You get to hear from one of my dear friends and colleagues and Familia loca members, profe Bennett, Morgan Bennett. I've spoken about Morgan at various workshops, conferences. You've heard me give credit to Morgan before, and I am really excited for you to hear from her today, because if there's somebody in my life that I'm continually learning about this idea of giving credit where credit is due from. It is profe. Bennett, I pride myself on being good at it. But if there's somebody that I'm still always learning something new from about it, it is Morgan. So, Morgan, I'm so happy to have you. Could you tell us who you are, what you teach, where you teach, all the things?

Morgan Bennett 

Yes. Thank you so much. I am equally just as excited. This has been in the works for a bit of time, so we're finally doing this, hopefully you all will enjoy it. But as Annabelle said, my name is Morgan Bennett. I go by profe Bennett on socials and in my classroom and with colleagues. I am a Spanish teacher. I am in my eighth year of teaching, even though it feels like 20 but my eighth year of teaching, and I love it. I primarily teach Spanish one through three, but I've also had the wonderful pleasure of being an exploratory language teacher as well, which has also been a fun journey. But I teach middle school, high school, and my most recent journey I took as a language teacher was transitioning from being an in-person teacher to being an online teacher, a full time, you know, just I shouldn't say full time. I'm two part time jobs now, but just in person, live Zoom, I'm maintaining, you know that classroom space on Zoom, and I have loved bringing my in-classroom energy into the online space. It's been very rewarding, and I've loved that journey. So yeah, it's a little bit about me.

Annabelle Williamson 

I think that your students are probably so grateful for the fresh energy that you bring into the online space, because we’re very similar, like, I'm going to work my hardest to create a classroom vibe, even though I'm on screen. And so, they're probably grateful.

Morgan Bennett 

The number one comment I get back from admin, is we love your energy. And I'm like, does no one have energy online, but it makes me feel good. I appreciate it when I hear that.

Annabelle Williamson  

Yeah, it's special for the kids or for your students, especially because I know they range in age. But um, okay, so I'm so grateful that we're finally doing this, as Morgan shared, this is something that we have been wanting to do for well over a year, well over a year, and maybe two, yeah, truly, maybe two. It is something that we talk about all the time, and it's this idea of when you are going to a conference and sitting in a presentation, the hope is that if an idea is shared, that somebody learned from someone else, even if they've taken it and added to it and changed it and made it their own, that they're still taking a moment at the beginning to say, I learned this from blank at blank conference, or I learned this from blank, from their social media, and this is what I do with it. They're taking a second to acknowledge the person whose genius, whose brilliance, introduced it to them. We go the extra mile of even saying, you'll hear me every workshop I do, I do a land acknowledgement. And I say I learned this from profe Bennett, who learned it from Francoise, because I know that Morgan told me where she learned it from, so I'm double crediting where she got it from. Even though I learned it from Morgan, she learned it from Francoise, and then I go even for their person. Right? And I've since changed a piece of the language to past, present, and emerging indigenous peoples. And so, it takes seconds, and yet, this is why we're doing this podcast. And yet it is not being done nearly enough, especially in the world language teaching community to horrifying degrees. Yes, thank you for saying that it is horrifying. And so, we are finally recording this. I'm so, so grateful for you coming here, I want to start by sharing a little bit about our personal experience with people literally stealing, because that's what it is, stealing our ideas, our work, our slides, etcetera. And I'll go first, just because that's what spurred me to again, reach out to you and say, Morgan, we've gotta do this podcast. Um, I recently attended SCOLT this past year in Nashville, and I literally texted Morgan from the session because I was it was the mostchallenging, heartbreaking, gut wrenching, angering, infuriating, horrifying, professional experience I've ever had to sit through. I sat through a workshop where the first person did a great job of giving credit. The second person said, through all their ideas, this idea isn't mine, but I can't remember who I got it from, like consistently, which is also problematic, but we'll talk about that. And then the third person shared ideas that I knew who created them, or where they were, they were from, and shared six of my original ideas as her own in the presentation, as her own. And I like even the exact titles of what I've named these games from blogs. Like, I was pulling up the blogs as she was speaking, and I was, I mean, you can't see my face right now, Morgan can, but it was.

Morgan Bennett 

I can't imagine, I can't imagine being there, having that experience, being like, that's mine. That's mine.

Annabelle Williamson

And I could hear Morgan in my head saying, what are you saying? What, are you standing up? Are you? Are you speaking out? Are you, and I was brave for the first time ever, and I'll share that in a second, but that this is the first time I've sat through it, but I have had five different occasions where people have emailed me over the last five years saying, I'm sitting in a presentation; that is your presentation. I've seen these slides even, and people have directly imposed their Bitmoji over my Bitmojis and presented my work as theirs. So, this is not something that is brand new. This is and it's not just from one person. This is happening in big, dramatic ways, but we're talking about the smallest ways too. In this we're talking about all the ways that it is essential that we shift to giving credit where credit is due, acknowledging intellectual property, intellectual work and how easy it can be. What could you share some of your experiences?

Morgan Bennett 

Personally, I have seen it happen at a conference. It was only once it happened to me, but mine, the reason I started this whole journey is because it started happening to me in the building, in my classroom at school, and I just could not believe it. So, in my first year of teaching, I had an incredible mentor. His name was Shane Goodpasture. He's also a la Familia Loca family member, and he really instilled in me this idea that you can do your own work, you can be inspired. You can create things, and he guided me through that process. When I got to my second year of teaching, I had this in me. He had helped instill this in me. I'm also just a hard worker. I'm a perfectionist. I love things to be my own or to be creative, but I realized that people really appreciated the things I was putting out into my classroom, which made me feel really good, and as a new teacher, it puts you on a high like, oh, wow, this, you know, 20 plus your teacher is coming to me and asking me questions and wants to know until you start to realize they're asking you for all your worksheets. They're asking you for your slides you're projecting, and you start to realize, like, huh, this is happening every week. And I started to realize, am I being taken advantage of here? And so, I thought I let me just check out what's happening. And I realized the teacher was literally using my worksheets and my information in her classroom and using them as her own, and so that didn't sit well with me. I also had an experience which I couldn't believe this one either. Maybe some of you out there have had this happen where my printed off documents would disappear off the printer. I would print them before I would go and copy them, and I would go to the other teacher, and I'd say, hey, I printed this. Have you seen it? No, no, it must not have printed so about after a few months of that, I decided I would look for myself, and I went in, and I found a stack under a folder of those printed off worksheets. And while I understand that this is an extreme version, and this doesn't happen to everyone. It is still prevalent. This is still happening. And this kind of thing continued throughout my career, and unfortunately, you know, it did lead me to be a little shy about sharing, because I started to realize teachers were taking my ideas, or I'm big into creating worksheets and documents and slides I make. I like to make things pretty.

Annabelle Williamson

And y'all, y'all, to be clear, they are the most incredible freaking slides you have ever seen, the amount of time. But that's, that's why, another reason why, like the amount of time and care and intentionality, yes, not just you, but we as teachers, whether they are as yours or not as yours, right? The time and care and intentionality behind creating, whatever it is we're creating Is, is why it is so hurtful and so damaging.

Morgan Bennett

Yeah, people always say to me, well, Morgan, I'm not going to spend four hours like you are creating something, and I'm like, that’s okay if you spend five minutes that is still valuable and that is still yours, that is still time that you took out of your, you know, planning or whatever, to create something for your students. But the I will tell you the last thing that kind of cemented things for me. I had really been feeling this throughout my career, and it, like I said, it did close me off a bit. I became a little more guarded. It wasn't until my last in-person building, when I found a colleague that I connected with, I didn't ask her to share a name, so we'll call her C, uh, C was incredible and amazing, and she was very honest with me about her appreciation of my work, and one of the things she said to me one day during planning hit me to my core, and it validated all of the feelings I had been having, because you can only you only up to that point, I would say I hadn't been as brave as directly, like walking up to that person in the building and saying, like, hey, don't do this. I had on occasion, but she turned to me and said, in a planning session, I want you to know, I know that you have a lot of fear about people taking your stuff. And people in this building, like, have tried to take your worksheets and stuff. But I understand it, because on Sunday night, when I'm tired, I'm tempted to just say to myself, well, Morgan will just have everything put together. I can just use her stuff. And she said, I want you to know I'm not. I don't want you to be mad about that, but I'm telling you because I think that's what people have done to you, they have, you know, just assumed, well, Morgan's made all this stuff. It's going to be amazing. It'll be better than what I have, and I'll just use it and it and I, I said, thank you, because I realized in that moment, I was being taken advantage of. And then the other second thing was, people were just taking it as their own. These teachers were just presenting this as their own. Oh, one other thing, and then we'll continue. I had an admin in a meeting. When I shared, I said, this is my original idea. I created. I shared the idea in the meeting, what I was doing in the classroom, and they said, oh, well, so and so said that that was what they were doing, and they had their students I forgot. And I said, no, I am so sorry. I shared that with and they were like, well, here's, you know, because we had to provide samples and stuff for that lesson, they had taken my fonts and everything and changed them, like, recreated it so off the bottom, so that admin had a conversation with that teacher, thank goodness, but and so did I, but that I I'm just telling this all team, because even though you may not be seeing it directly, these things are happening. And it's not just in world language, let's be clear, like it can happen across all our subject areas. So, people are being intentional. Now that is not everyone, right? We I want to be clear about that, not everyone is like super intentional. It can also be a little unintentional. There is a big culture of collaboration, which is beautiful in our schools, right? When you say that in about like collaboration, we're always like, collaborate, collaborate, but at the same time, there's still. So, we still need to pause, and we need to think about how we can give credit to teachers who are contributing to that collaboration or contributing ideas. So, if I decide to take our curriculum and put it into a worksheet, let's put my name on the bottom. If C, decides to put together an incredible slide that outlines something, let's put her name at the bottom. If Annabelle does this super cool game and comes up with it, well, you know what we're going to mention to the students. You won't believe this is super amazing teacher La Maestra loca came up with this game, and we're going to play it, and we're going to get into details of those examples. But I did want to say it isn't just teachers who are like, I'm out to get this other teacher. We can also do it a little unintentionally by just forgetting and not being considerate of that.

Annabelle Williamson

I want to say now, if you are a person, you're listening to this, and you're like, oh my God, I've used my co teacher slides and not even thought about it before. That's okay, please keep listening, because that's why we're doing this. That's literally, if you've opened a co teachers Google Drive because you didn't have time to prep, and you've used their slides, and you're like, oh my God, I am that teacher. It's okay, keep listening because that is, that is literally why we're doing this. On the note of unintentionality, Morgan, when you you're somebody who I am, a people pleaser, right? So, I am I. That's why I knew when I reached out to you, you would be like Annabelle. What are you saying? How are you saying it like? For the first time ever in my career, I did handle it in a very Annabelle way, not in a Morgan way, but I was brave. And got to the point where the presenter at the end of that workshop ended up saying, gaslighting me, but saying a lot of the ideas I presented today were probably Annabelle’s, but I and then she said, but I know Annabelle doesn't care about the credit, because she just cares that we all learn, which was just like, oh, you know, like, holy cow. But when we're talking about unintentionally, what do you suggest people do, if you realize, like somebody might have unintentionally stolen your idea and failed to give credit? Why? Why is it so important that we not just let that go?

Morgan Bennett

So, I think in life in general, it is important to give credit to people for their ideas and the things they produce. Where, if you have an artist, the artist signs that artwork, and we give credit to that artist, right? If a scholar writes a paper, we put their name on that paper. If someone writes a book, we put their name on the book. So why, as academics and, you know, highly educated in our specialty, in our field, why can we not put our name on things? I think it's important to recognize that when time and effort is being put into something, there should be credit there. I think that's an important lesson for not only educators and adults, but also for students. So, my number one priority is, of course, people are owed the credit for their work. That's the most important thing in life. We see it everywhere we go, people's names. You know that giving credit for their work, their art, their whatever they're creating. But second is the students. We must model proper healthy behavior for our students regarding citing and giving credit. When we do this, our students learn in the classroom. This is the appropriate thing to do. This is the kind and good thing to do. Look perfect, I didn't turn a whole speech into let me talk about Annabelle la maestra loca and who she is. I just said, we're going to play a game. This awesome teacher named la Maestra loca came up with it. She's brilliant. You tell me what you think after we're done playing it. And that's all I say, right? Right. It's giving credit. And so not only is it important to the creator, the content creator, the educator, because that's the world we live in, it's important to acknowledge that their contributions, but second is the example that it provides for our students to create future thinkers and movers and producers that then give credit and don't claim things for their own. This is even more important in the age of AI, right? So, it's important that we model to our students the correct favor, and honestly, I'm modeling to my colleagues as well, right? When I do this, I'm inspiring them to hopefully do the same, to take a minute, to acknowledge the creator, to acknowledge where this came from. We're kind of in a culture where everything is fast information, right? Google it. I got it, and I think this has led us to neglecting citing our sources of it. Yeah. And I think a lot of English teachers, if this makes their way to any English teachers out there, they would agree, like, students really need support, and this idea of giving credit where they're getting their ideas from, because they're used to just doing a search, and now the AI generates it at the top of Google, and they've got an answer when, in fact, they click the link and see where that came from and those ideas came from. So that is important to me. It's kind of twofold. Give credit, that's the appropriate thing, that's the good thing to do in our profession. Second, model it for the students. So, then they know this is the standard, this is how we should move forward and…

Annabelle Williamson

And that's the thing too, when it's modeled so, so simply, and so like, like, you said it takes seconds. It takes seconds at the beginning of whatever you're doing. When it's modeled so simply and so consistently, it just becomes the norm, right? Like, oh, this is just what you do. And when I shifted to this, I was like, Oh, yeah. Like, I have no problem. Like, kids know that I got this off a TPT. Why would I not just quick say, oh, I got this idea from my friend profe Delgadillo. Bertha Delgadillo is a high school teacher in Georgia. It takes seconds and then literally, at the end of class, we did hexagonal thinking once with her, like for a community builder, I had several kids in each class say, tell your friend, thank you. That was so fun. Like, how cool is that? That they're then saying, oh my gosh, that was so fun. And they know that it's not mine, but they're thanking the creator and acknowledge, like, really, important to model like you're saying and powerful and again, like it, it doesn't take long. There's there. And there's something else that you just said about googling that I reminded me of something before, when I was sitting in that presentation and the teacher who was acknowledging that they weren't her ideas, but she was saying, like, immediately after, I can't remember who they're from, I was sitting and it took a couple, sometimes I had to dig a little bit deeper in Google, but it took me not that long to figure out what blog post it was from, what teacher it was from. And that's what bothered me too. Is like, yes, we are in an age that it is easy to find where we yeah, to find the source. So, I in that, in that presentation, found the sources and sent them. Because I was like, hey, you know, I appreciate that you're acknowledging this isn't your idea. But look how easy it is for me to say, oh, boom, this idea was Keith Todas. Here is the link. This was Cecilia's idea. Here is the link to the block. You know what I mean. So, it doesn't take long. Yeah, I love that you mentioned Bertha. I have her in my head as an example for how to do it appropriately. So, whenever we get to that, I'll reference something. Yeah, it was Bertha's amazing work from TPT, yes.

Annabelle Williamson

Do you think that there's a difference Morgan, but from being like, inspired by somebody, and copying somebody and still being able to give credit?

Morgan Bennett 

Yes, but it's pretty cut and dry for me because you're going to see the credit given in or you're not like inspiration. We're all inspired by educators, whether they're past educators, current educators. Inspiration is what keeps this wheel of education going. We are inspired by each other, right? We're not in this alone, and so being inspired by another teacher’s work and taking that and switching it up and using it as your own. That's beautiful. That's education. The copying comes in when you don't give that credit, or when you lead your students or colleagues or admin to think, or the people at the conference to think that that work is your own. So, in being inspired is essential to us, to our profession, I want to be inspired by other people daily. What I don't want to do is take what I was inspired by and claim it as my own or put it out into the world as my own. That, to me, is very black and white. So, I think, acknowledge you're inspired, but then acknowledge where that inspiration came from, came from, yes, if you don't, you are copying at that point. You are. You honestly, you're stealing, like you said that. You're stealing someone's work as your own, and putting it out like, hey, I came up with this. So that's what I like. They're just very black and white. Be inspired, you know, take little things here and there. And when I say take, I mean it like in a proper way, take them, but then give credit. Don't take them as your own and not give credit. You can't do that, not your original idea. Um, I'll just go ahead and give the example of Bertha, because it fits in right now with what I'm saying. Bertha came out with a few years back, an incredible Valentine's Day unit. She had like, these jars, and you could fill them up and, oh, I loved it. If you have not checked out some of her materials on TPT, please do so they're incredible. But I decided to alter her original idea and kind of recreate it. I went on Canva and recreated some things, but I knew immediately this wasn't my original idea. I was inspired, you know, buy this to use this in my classroom and alter it. So, what I did is, on the bottom of that page, I put adapted from Bertha Delgadillo and the title of that assignment, and I had a student ask me, like, profe, what is this? And I said, well, one of my friends made an incredible resource, and I just needed to alter a little bit to fit our needs, but I wanted you all to know that I didn't make it, and the student looked at me, was like, But why? And it that was, that was one of the moments. So, then we talked about giving credit, not that I needed to take that time, but that was a teachable moment for that student, because right along in a full sentence on the bottom of that document, that statement was written, so there's power to giving credit. There's power even if you adjust things. I literally took an idea that she it was just beautiful. I was inspired, but I needed to recreate it to adjust. So, I didn't use her exact slide or her exact printouts, her worksheets. I adjusted, but I still give credit at the bottom, because it was not my original idea. My inspiration was completely drawn from her original work. So that is an example of, like, a tangible thing, right? Not just verbal, but, like, I didn't spend a long time, I didn't go into a big thing, but I wanted all the students to know at the bottom, this wasn't my original idea. So that's just another way that it can play out in terms of making sure you're letting people know you were inspired, but you're not copying someone's work, right?

Annabelle Williamson

And we've gone over like the why it matters so much, and I think that like it matters so much for like, teaching kids and modeling it. But I do want to talk more about like, the why we think, I want to take a second to talk about why we think it exists in education spaces. Because you and I have had this conversation before where, like, there's almost this entitlement because of like this, this culture of like, teachers as martyrs, like this, icky, like, what, like I've been emailed before saying, like, can I just see your Google Drive? Like, literally this, I like what, no, no. Could you explain? Because you articulate it so much better.

Morgan Bennett 

First, I want to acknowledge this. Our profession is underfunded, under resourced like so it is hard a lot of times, especially for new teachers, to have the proper materials and content and things they need to be successful, as well as training. Okay, let's just put that up. Let's be real. So, I think there's a culture that already exists where they're set up for a bit of failure. And so, when we go into panic mode, it is a natural survival thing for us to then be like, can I use this? Do you have anything, right? And so, I want to acknowledge that, because there is a component of that in education that is, there's not enough support in place. So, it can lead to teachers just taking things and using it. I need to acknowledge that, because that is that is prevalent in our profession, but I think that teachers are martyrs in the sense that we're just expected to teach the students and go along with whatever's needed for the community, whatever's needed for the school, and you do what's best. It sucks. It's horrible. You know, you're not treated fair, but you're there for the kids. It's all about the kids. You're there for the kids. So, if someone takes your stuff, be flattered. Be flattered. Be you know, it's okay, like, take it as a compliment, and that's where we must draw the line, right? We have to say, no, I am educated in this field. I am a professional, I am an expert in what I'm talking about, and I do deserve this credit, right? There's not a gray area. So, I think our profession, like you said, has created this environment where you're a teacher, you're not a scholar, you're a teacher, you're not, you know, a professional content creator, whatever you do can be shared with anyone, because it's for the sake of the kids. And I disagree. I think we're highly educated, highly capable in our field, and we should be giving credit. So that does exist. I see it with admin all the time. You know, shout out to you teachers out there that have admin that come to you and say, hey, this teacher is struggling. Can you give them your stuff? Because that that keeps that cycle going? Right? I'm not saying please. I'm not saying, don’t share your work. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it should be done in a very intentional way. You should sit down with that teacher, explain to them, this is what I used, you know, please ask me if you're going to use something in your classroom. If you do, please keep my name on it. Make sure you mention me. Just establish some boundaries. But I do think our culture has led to, you know, kind of just like, take it, don't say anything. You're a teacher. You do it for the sake of the community. That's what you're expected to do. So, we need to change that. Yep, because we are, we know what we're talking about. We're specialists in our area. So yeah, I hope that answers it.

Annabelle Williamson

Yeah, it does, it does, and it connects directly to like I think that that is why we have seen it become more and more popular, or common. Not popular. It is popular. That's what's gross, but I think that's why we've seen it become more common at PD and in workshops. This idea of not giving credit because of like this, this, like this, like, I just want to give to teachers, because this work, it's the hardest job on the planet. We know this to be true. I have…

Morgan Bennett 

I must acknowledge something super-fast before I forget. Yeah, conferences. I will say this. I also think that the conference environment encourages copying and reproduction. Here's why we have them every year, nonstop teachers who want to be in the conference circuit must constantly be coming up with new ideas and new material. And if you're not, and there's nothing wrong with that, I haven't really come up with anything new. I've wanted to recently share myself, if you must stay relevant in that conference circuit, you're going to need to take other ideas. And so, I honestly think that the conference environment itself also can lead to this in a way, because it's putting pressure on teachers to constantly be putting out new ideas and new things. And when they feel like, oh well, my admins asking me to do this, or my friend is asking me to go to this conference, they're like, what do I do? They're like, oh well, I got this thing from Annabelle. Like, I basically kind of changed a little bit. Let me just use this, and that is also a problem. So, we see you out there, all those teachers that enjoy being a part of the conferences and doing the professional development, but we see you in the fact that it's not easy, like you are being asked to constantly come up with something new, and we don't need to do that necessarily, should we be open to change and development and growth? Yes, but if that year you don't have anything, I'm going to say it, it's okay to not present at a conference. Okay, yeah, hey, it, you know, it's you can take a back seat for a year and then come up with something another year you're it doesn't make you any less of an educator. So, I just wanted to mention that, because I do think the conference world kind of lends itself to teachers needing to constantly produce and then maybe feeling like they need to take from other areas if they don't have something…

Annabelle Williamson

That's so real. And I think that my podcast has shown that this year, like I have just been okay with not putting as much out, because honestly, Morgan, I've learned, and I know I shared this in my last podcast, in my last blog, that when I'm not in my classroom, I'm not getting the inspiration that I normally do, and my ideas from my kids and all of these things, and it is felt genuinely much harder To share, and I know that it is better for me to just take a take a step back. I know that my audience are still going to be there and ready for me when I am ready to share. But instead of, like, just constantly only being able to share others’ ideas, I just kind of taken a little step back this year, and that's okay, because I've been lacking in inspiration I really have, and that's okay. It's okay. So on, on the note of conferences, before we go into like, details of how you do this, how can, how do you suggest, especially for people like me who struggle with, like, challenging conversations. How do we start taking steps to have bold and brave conversations? Because, my God, when I did it, I felt so I told you I was like, I felt so good, like you would be so proud. It was a very Annabelle way, but I felt so good because I stood up for myself, or I stood up for these my friends who I knew these ideas were from. So how do we start having those bold conversations?

Morgan Bennett 

So, it's different for every person. You and I know this because we're we have different personalities, and so we process this information and then say things in a different way. But boundaries are the first thing you need to recognize is, what is your boundary? When do you feel like you need to say something? When do you not need to say something? So that's going to be individual, right? For Annabelle and me, it's like, the second we see something, we're like, yeah, that's a nod for us. Maybe it's yours. Is like, Oh, that's okay. But like, when it's clearly taken from you, that's your boundary. So, you've got to set a boundary. The next thing is you. Communication is key here. We need to make sure that we never go in directly, hot, and we're not going in like, ba, ba, ba, ba, you stole this one. That is not going to get the desired result. Our desired result is that this person learns and doesn't do this again. So let me be clear about that. You can be stern, but coming in, hot, coming in, argumentative, coming in like that is not going to produce the desired outcome. Communication is so important when dealing with these things, I think it's important that you acknowledge that that person is a teacher. They put a lot of hard work into what they're doing. Yes, I always usually say statement like, I recognize that our profession is not easy, and I appreciate your contributions to education. However, this is what I noticed. And so, you want to open, I always say you want to soften that conversation a bit, especially well, let me say, if this person has done it multiple times, we'll talk about that a second. That's different. But if this is the first or second time you let's soften that entry, and then let's, let's be direct, but in a kind way, I noticed that you were using this, and this is something that I talked about on this date, or this is something that I created this year, and I was really hoping that you were going to give credit, and I noticed that you didn't. Was there a reason that you didn't? And so, communicating like that with a teacher, whether in person, maybe you, maybe you're not feeling bold, like Annabelle and I yet, and you want to do it in person. Maybe you want to send an email, right? Just be careful about your tone. Have someone else read it. So, when you're communicating, you want to say, I almost want to say, like, don't be accusatory on the initial thing, keep it open ended. Ask them and Annabelle, you did this, heavy like, did you? Did you intend to do this? Did you, you know? Were you aware that these ideas came from so and so? And I've been in, I've been in conference sessions where I said that, and that teacher was like, oh, no, you know, I had no idea. I had one on inclusive language. And then guess what? That teacher next year had all the resources cited that I had brought to her attention. So, there is a way to be kind, but also to word your conversation with is that was this your intention? Because this is from this resource and see what they have to say. Now, some people might be like, I don't care. And at that point you can say, well, that's you know. That's unfortunate. Be honest with them. That's unfortunate because this is this person's original work. And please note that I will be sharing with everyone that this is that's another thing, though, that may not be your cup of tea, but I let them know I will be sharing with colleagues that this work was taken in this way and not given credit. Communication is key. You can do it in person. You can do it via email. Make sure you watch your tone. Have someone read that communication when you're reaching out. If this is Annabelle, and I know about this, if this is not the first or second and this is a repeat offender, you do have to be more direct, and you're going to have to get comfortable. You're going to have to sit with it. Don't do any and I always like, I ask my friends, like, don't just like, blah, like, don't sit on it. Write something out. Have someone look at it, but you've got to be clear and hold your ground. If that is your original work, or that's the original work of someone else, we must be comfortable calling that out in this community. Otherwise, we're never going to solve the problem. We're never going to solve it. It will just continue to happen. And so, I believe that it needs to be called out. How you call out is going to be unique to your personality, but please, if you take away anything, it's that you don't deserve to have that done to you. Those friends of yours that you know put things that you know, hard work and time into that don't deserve to have that done to them. So, taking a stance, making a comment, sending an email, is almost like a professional obligation. It's a part of our community. It's a show of respect and solidarity to the educators worth and time and just everything it that's truly what it is. And so, practice what you're going to say, write out what you're going to say, have a friend, look at it. Give them, open it. Be kind at first. That's what I it. We always, it always helps to have people see the light when we're initially like, did you intend to do this? Did you realize that this was from this? If it is a multiple time offense, let me tell y’all? It is time to act. It is time to perhaps do a public call out. Annabelle will be the one to tell you, when we get some of our group chats going with friends and they are sharing their stuff, I will be one of the ones. Be like, you want me to blast them. Go and put it out like, let's, let's put it out there. Because when people are repeat offenders, when it comes to this, like, it's time to hold people accountable, and it's time to, like, give the credit back to the original person. Yeah, especially, especially, and this goes into a whole another area for educators, if there's monetary gain behind it, if you that, if you are, you know, you have a professional learning community, which we could talk that's a Whole other topic is not every educator like that, but that is especially an issue. I have friends personally that have dealt with that, especially because…

Annabelle Williamson

Like, of smaller accounts and like big accounts, we this is, and again, like, she's right, that's a whole other conversation. But like, we want to impress upon you as the listener, that whether you, if you've seen this happening a little bit, you need to know that this is happening everywhere and on giant, large scales. And it's it really is horrifying. There are people profiting off other people's work on a regular basis, and it's everywhere in education.

Morgan Bennett 

Um, and it starts those first few years when those teachers are in the classroom learning that it's okay to take things because no one said to them, no, this is not okay. Yeah, so it's a, it's it grows, it snowballs. Essentially the behavior snowballs when we don't call it out and hold each other accountable. You would not allow a student to cheat on your assessment or to in a speaking assessment, use the student who just went before exact words you we would hold them accountable, and we would have a conversation with them about that. So why are we not holding the adults in our lives accountable. If we're trying to instill that in the students, we also then must keep that in our community spaces with the adults.

Annabelle Williamson

Yeah, it's the same thing. It's wild. So, on that note, let's move to solutions, since this is already a longer episode than I normally do, but it's been no, it's so important. One of my favorite things I ever learned from you was to ask before, when I'm presenting on something, I always ask the person that I'm like, oh, I want to use this quote from your Instagram. Can I use your post? I'll give you credit. But one of my favorite phrases I learned from you was to drop this, like, beg, borrow, steal, which, by the way, there was a session called that at scold, like, oh gosh, it's just borrowed, steal, I just want to say that again. Like, think about what, what those words mean. Yikes. So, to reframe it, and I'm so obsessed with this, because I have it written on my desk. Ask, acknowledge, appreciate. I learned that from you. And I'm so obsessed with this, like re-coining it, and I just want to spread it far and wide. Credit to Morgan Bennett, ask, acknowledge, appreciate. Could you talk about that?

Morgan Bennett 

Yeah, I just want to say not a lot of people love this statement. When I put it out, they did not like so ask, acknowledge, appreciate. Came from a place where I realized, instead of just if it's okay to take things that we ask first, because I realized that people should have the chance to say yes or no., I want you sharing this stuff, right? So, we had to acknowledge, we had to ask, acknowledge whether they were okay with that, and still show appreciation whether they said yes or no. So again, this is controversial. A lot of people say, well, you can, you can take whatever you want, if you give credit. Well, the asking component, I feel like, adds an extra layer to it, where you are seeking out that person to say, hey, I would like to share. This. Is this, are you comfortable with this? It gives, it puts the power back in the original content creators’ hands, okay, and the original, the person who produced this, and if they say no, this is where you must acknowledge that they said no. If they say yes, then this is the part where you acknowledge Okay. I need to then, in my worksheet, in my slides, in my presentation, I need to give that credit, that appreciation and appreciation can still exist even if someone says no. That is why I wanted to create this phrase. If you ask and they acknowledge it as a No, why would you still not appreciate Yes, it might be like, oh, I wanted to use that, but this educator inspired you. They helped you still appreciate their time and their effort. That's like when Annabelle was like being asked about her whole Google Drive. I would hope that you know when you do not give in to that, which is a clear No, that those people still appreciate the fact that you're an amazing education, you're still contributing to the education world. Blah, blah, blah. But we need to get on the train of this ask, acknowledge, and appreciate. If we begin to ask, I think it will be more of an it's like a conscious thing, like it helps us make sure we're doing it. We remember, okay, I need to ask. Let me shoot Annabelle a quick little message. Hey, are you comfortable if I include this in now, if it's a close friend of yours, and you've been using some of those same things over and over, you've already asked? Asked you clearly know you that you know that relationship, but if it's someone new, especially someone you haven't necessarily cited before in something or you know you want to present to your school on this topic, just ask and be like, hey, I learned a lot from you. Are you comfortable if I use your name and I cite your resource in my presentation? I'm telling you, nine times out of 10 teachers are like, yes, thank you. I really appreciate you sharing you know my name and acknowledging me. So, the beg, borrow, steal culture has got to end. But again, I want to acknowledge beg, borrow, steal exists because we are worn down. We, it's the culture, yes, so it is having been ingrained. But please don't think then that that's the normal because that's right. That shouldn't be the normal, right?

Annabelle Williamson

I love that. I also think that when we think about, oh, it's just so good. Sorry, sorry, I we got distracted. My son came in and I had, like, a good note, but that's okay. That's the authenticity piece of this, of this podcast. Okay, so what are some easy ways that people can start being better about crediting others? I know that asking is like, suit like, Okay, we ask.We already said, like, it is super simple to just like, write it at the bottom of a slide and say it. Is there anything else you would add about, like, easy ways that people can start to give credit.

Morgan Bennett 

Yeah. So, in terms of visual I'm a, I'm a big visual a teacher, like, I have slides for everything. I have worksheets for everything. It just, that's what I prefer. It's, it's on my slides, like Annabelle mentioned, I just take a quick little second to insert it on the bottom. If I'm using a worksheet that's from TPT, I'm keeping that teacher's name like it's their original document that's always there. If it's something I've adjusted or I've adopted, I'm doing adopted from, or acknowledging original work from, and I'm just typing it out on the bottom. I don't necessarily have a conversation with my students every time I hand them a worksheet with another teacher's name, but I know it's there, and they're seeing, oh, profe Bennett is an amazing teacher, but profe Bennett credits where she's getting her stuff from, right? Like this is from somewhere else. The other thing is, if you are in the moment and you are playing a game, or you're presenting a lesson, and there's not visual aids attached to it. Literally take five seconds to just say, this amazing teacher or my amazing friend. You know, whatever your relationship is, this amazing teacher created this incredible game, and we're going to play it. This teacher's name is, you know, la maestra loca, Bennett. You let me know what you think about it at the end. Like it, it opens to be like, hey, this person, this is this person's thing. So again, ask. Put it on a slide if you're projecting to your board. Put it on the bottom of your worksheets or documents or handouts that you're putting out. If it's something like is for the moment or in the moment a game, whatever. Just acknowledge, just a quick little acknowledgement. And the other thing is, don't forget to acknowledge your class, your colleague across the hall, so to speak, we oftentimes will be like, Okay, well, I acknowledge la maestra loca, but then we forget about our colleague across the hall. Right? The colleague across the hall is just as important to cite and to give credit that you got an idea from them, because it creates a beautiful community amongst the World Language Department for you all, like, oh, profe Bennett really respects so and so, teacher so and...

Annabelle Williamson

iI's also modeling, again, like collaboration for the future for these for these kids, like, I hope that they grow up to find workspaces where They can acknowledge their colleagues, work closely with their colleagues, collaborate with their colleagues, uplift each other, like etc. like that. Some of my favorite lessons last year were from my colleague, profe He calls himself profe, but like he taught me these Tiktok dances, and I brought those to my classes, and I was like, Y'all, this is not me. You know, this is not me. Profe. Taught me this like here's a picture of us doing it together in preparation for this lesson. I am so nervous about this, but it's just it again. It is modeling something that's so simple but so invaluable. It's so important to just acknowledge each other.

Morgan Bennett 

I will say your administration, whether you think they're acknowledging, they're realizing you're doing it or not, they are, especially when you share in your classroom, if they're there visiting and you share out colleagues’ names, you say, oh, I learned this. Let's see how amazing this work is, or you're acknowledging it. It does go a long way professionally for you. People begin to look on you as someone who is kind, someone who is appreciative, someone who is professional. So, it's, it's also good just for your career overall. I feel like it yes, some personal benefit to being someone who acknowledges and gives credit. So, you know that one's a little more selfish, but there is a benefit to doing that in your you know, just. Terms of your professional life.

Annabelle Williamson

And I want, I remembered the thing that I wanted to connect to, and it was from much earlier you were saying, like, how you do feel, that we are professionals, we are highly educated. We are like, I wanted to bring it back to that, because you alluded to this in your first year of teaching, you were highly educated in your first year of teaching, you were an expert in your first year. You don't have to have years under your belt to know that your work is so important, so valuable, and you, even if you're in your first few years of teaching, also deserve that credit. So, I really wanted to make sure that that was that was directly connected to like, remember, this was happening to Morgan from her very first year when she was a baby, a so-called Baby teacher, but we are all professionals, and wherever you are on the spectrum or in your career, you deserve credit, and we deserve to support each other in getting that credit.

Morgan Bennett 

Absolutely, absolutely. I think a lot of first years are fearful, right? They don't know how to handle that. So, we're here to be your aunties in this moment and tell you, like, hey, you can stand up for yourself. You can you know what you're doing. It's not okay for someone to take your stuff off the printer. Don't think that's normal. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you saying that, because I do think I probably would have approached my first several years of teaching a little bit differently if I had heard this message originally. So be confident. You're amazing. You know what you're doing, you're an expert, and your work deserves to be acknowledged, ask, acknowledge, and appreciate,

Annabelle Williamson

yes, and on that note, thank you so much, Morgan, I'm so freaking glad I knew this would feel natural. I knew it would feel so great to have this conversation. I'm glad it was the length that it was because I think that everything needed to be said, and I'm you're such a gift to me, to the profession. Thank you for your knowledge. Thank you for continuing to be somebody that I know I can lean on and learn from, and that I can continue to ask and acknowledge and appreciate your ideas and all that you have shared with me. Thank you. Thank you for doing this with me today.

Morgan Bennett 

Absolutely. I appreciate you. Thanks for all the kind words and creating a platform for us to share this with our community. That's special for me, that I got to do that today. So, thank you. And thank you to all the listeners. We're hoping that you took a little piece of joy or something that sparked your interest from this podcast. So, thank you.

Annabelle Williamson

Yes, yes. And if people want to connect with you, you mentioned your profe Bennett, can you give us your Instagram handle?

Morgan Bennett 

It's profe underscore Bennett. That's Bennett with 2 es, 2 ns and 2 ts. I think that's pretty much the one I've been maintaining. I had a couple others, but now it's just primarily. IG, so...

Annabelle Williamson

Perfect. Well, thank you so much again, and I'm so grateful for you, and we'll chat soon. Thanks for listening, y'all until next time. Morgan will be teaching la vida loca, and I will be here to support until, guess what? I have a job for next year. That's all I'm saying. You'll have to wait for the next podcast episode. Bye, y'all bye.