"Vulnerability is your Superpower" with the authentic Josh Passchier

What does true masculine strength look like in today's world? Josh Passchier, co-founder of Uncaged Potential Coaching and founder of Uncaged Brotherhood, believes it's found through embracing vulnerability rather than hiding from it. After 30 years in high-performance roles from tennis professional to healthcare startups, Josh discovered his calling helping men break free from societal conditioning and step fully into their authentic selves.

Josh shares his transformative journey toward understanding that vulnerability isn't weakness but a superpower requiring courage and strength. He challenges the traditional masculine stereotype of avoiding emotion, explaining how this approach actually reflects fear rather than power. Through his work with Uncaged Brotherhood, he creates safe spaces where men can explore their authentic selves without judgment, building confidence through accountability and shared growth.

The conversation explores how most fears are completely irrational yet hold tremendous power over our lives. Josh advocates taking daily steps toward personal goals while deliberately doing something that scares you regularly. This voluntary adversity builds resilience and authenticity that transcends into every aspect of life - from career success to building meaningful relationships.

Particularly poignant is Josh's discussion of blended families, where he shares wisdom about allowing relationships to develop organically rather than forcing connections. His vulnerable sharing about his own experiences - from his divorce to launching new ventures with his amazing wife Brooke - demonstrates the power of his approach.

Whether you're struggling with limiting beliefs, seeking to understand the evolving nature of masculinity, or simply looking for practical strategies to live more authentically, this episode offers profound insights for anyone wanting to break free from their self-imposed cages and discover their true potential. Vulnerability isn't just about showing emotion - it's about having the courage to be who you truly are.

Transcript

Welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast

Intro 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, peak Performance Coach, brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and soar? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you, all of you strivers, thrivers and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at wwwbamboolab3.com.

Brian 0:42

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today. We have a gentleman on that I had the pleasure of talking to last year. I got to know his wife. Over the past three years she's been on the podcast twice.

Introducing Josh Passchier

Brian 0:55

We have Josh Passchier on and he is the co-founder of Uncaged Potential Coaching. Founder of Uncaged Brotherhood, he's a men's coach and embodiment leader. For over 30 years Josh has lived and breathed high performance, first as a tennis professional and personal trainer, then transitioning into the fast-paced world of healthcare startups. And a few years ago he met Brooke, who has been on episode number 70 and number 115, so please go back and listen to those. And through Brooke he was introduced to the world of personal development and it was like a spark had been lit. In 2023, josh and Brooke founded Uncaged Potential Coaching and just this year, brand new startup that's going to rock. He launched Uncaged Brotherhood. Josh now dedicates his life to helping men break free from the cages of conditioning and step fully into their power at home, at work and within themselves. So, my friend Josh, welcome to the Bamboo Lab podcast.

Josh 1:52

Hey Brian, thank you. I'm excited to be here. Just hearing that little introduction got a little. You know, you hear that and you're like, wow, that's pretty cool what we've done so far.

Brian 2:02

Dude, you guys are doing some really good stuff. I mean I get a chance Everybody I was telling Josh before we started recording I get a chance to you know, we're friends on social media so I get a chance to see Josh and Brooke's videos that go out. There's good stuff, there's really good stuff. There's a lot of shit out there that I pick up on. I'm like why are these people doing this? Josh and Brooke are not those ones. These people put out good quality, well thought through and very impactful content. So I've been doing this for 29 years of coaching and I learn something every time I pick it up. So I would definitely tune into their stuff. Follow them on social media.

Brian 2:39

We'll include some links at the bottom of the show notes today, so please click on and check out their new endeavors that are really doing well. So let's get started. Josh, I've gotten to know you a little bit better over the last year, especially through social media, but can you tell the Bamboo Pack a little bit about yourself? You know whatever you want to share, your family, where you're from, who or what inspired you growing up? Let's give a little background of Josh, or what inspired you growing up.

Josh 3:03

Let's give a little background of Josh Sure sure, I grew up in basically Grand Rapids, michigan. I got two brothers and a sister and a loving mom and dad. They are still married. I think we're almost getting to their 50th wedding anniversary. I had a great family relationship and dynamic growing up. It was awesome.

Josh 3:30

Sports was always a big thing. You don't know by now I am pretty competitive. I don't like to lose no matter what we're doing, even throwing darts or playing bags with some buddies of mine. But sports was a big thing and um got to kind of made uh the tennis team during college as a walk-on and then from there, um I went and taught tennis. So for like 15 years, uh, I was a tennis pro and I went to where all the wealthy people lived so I could charge more money for tennis lessons. I really liked leading a group and helping them get better at tennis. I also got into personal training. I was able to teach tennis in the Hamptons for a summer.

Josh 4:26

I lived in Greenwich, connecticut, rye, new York, new Canaan, connecticut, charlottesville, virginia, for about four years and then lived outside Aspen for almost 10 years and got to meet some awesome people from teaching tennis. But I always thought that there was maybe something else I wanted to do. And then I thought that something else was maybe getting quote unquote a big boy job. You know, sit behind a desk and stop teaching tennis. And so I started working for some healthcare startups and I've worked for about five of them, all on the sales side. But there I just never. It never clicked, it never felt like this was something I really wanted to do, and some of it, I think, was my own limiting beliefs that I wasn't. You know, I didn't go to school for healthcare, but you were still selling, and it was just about building relationships with people.

Josh 5:20

And then, really, when, when Brooke and I got together, got together we've met, we will be married coming up on two years, so we've been together for three she really got introduced me to personal development and at first it honestly was something that I was like you, you want me to do what. You want me to write my feelings down on paper. You're freaking nuts. But um, and it was. But that's how she introduced me. She wasn't pushing, it was. Here's what I'm doing, if you, if you're interested, take a look at it.

Josh 5:55

And so she had was doing, um, thinking into results. I don't know if you're familiar with that proctor thinking any results and brooks like here, here's my login information, take a look and read, and then you know do the worksheets? Well, I would listen to all of the lessons and then she'd ask me well, are you doing the homework? And I'm like I don't need to do the homework, I'm listening, right, I'm listening to the, to the, to the session. I don't need to do the homework first. Like, well, that's where the work is. And I never did.

Josh 6:29

But then one time, uh, brooke got another coach, uh, lady, uh, kathleen cameron. And from listening to brooke's calls with them, I said, okay, I think I'm ready and I want to dive in. So I jumped into another program of hers and that forced me to actually do the shit right. That forced me to put stuff on paper, deal with my stuff. I had going on even things I did not know were issues, and I loved it. It was refreshing.

Josh's Journey from Tennis Pro to Coach

Josh 7:02

But it was also a time where I had to realize it was okay for me to be in a large Zoom meeting with like 50 other women and just me and two other guys, right. And so that part of sharing with that group even let me share it more but I was always used to being in a group of women because of teaching tennis. Right, teaching tennis was always a lot of teaching women, because the guys were mostly working all day long. Then what got me going was I saw a real need for guys to have a place to connect and grow, and there's more and more. There's some really awesome coaches out there and some great groups for guys to join, but unless you're looking for it, you probably don't know that they're even available, and so that's why I'm kind of we just started Uncaged Brotherhood. We just had our second call. Literally, our second call ended about an hour ago.

Brian 8:08

Oh, you did. How'd it go? Good, good.

Josh 8:12

We got about 10 guys that have committed and today, you know, we talked about our limiting beliefs and I want to walk them through a process. I want them to become vulnerable, but I want them to see that vulnerability is not a weakness. Vulnerability is a superpower that men can have that is still masculine. And so last week we discussed their identity, like who do they identify themselves as? And? And really not just hi, I'm josh, I have, okay, potential coaching with my wife and do this, it's, but it's who do you identify behind the scenes and who do you want to be? And if you're not that person, well, what? What steps do you need to take to become that person? And what do you need to do today to start to be that person? Right, because you can't say I want to be this person and then say I'm going to start tomorrow, because tomorrow never comes, it's always today, right?

Brian 9:23

Do you have a? Does you find it difficult? I love the idea because when I read your bio that when you said by vulnerability is a superpower, that was a big part of I underlined that right away and I thought right now I see, in the world of performance coaching, a lot of men are starting to become a lot more vulnerable. A A lot of men in very high paying or executive positions or powerful positions are starting to realize that all these years they've spent time trying to hide their vulnerability has cost them in a lot of ways emotionally and mentally, financially, as well as a lot of times physically and now it's starting to open up a lot more. What are you seeing as a challenge for men to open up on their vulnerability?

Josh 10:15

Societal norms yeah Right, it's crazy a lot more. What are you seeing as a challenge for men to open up on their vulnerability? Societal norms yeah right, like so many times, that society says men must be strong, loud, can show no emotion, right, but the vulnerability really is a source of strength and courage, if you think about it, because if I need to be vulnerable first, I need to have the courage and strength to be vulnerable. Well, so it's more about just opening up, being honest, being authentic in that vulnerability opening up, being honest, being authentic in that vulnerability.

Brian 10:48

You couldn't have stated that better. What I've seen, what I and I, honestly, 10 years ago I would have said you're full of shit. Um, I would have, because I was at maybe 15 years ago, I don't know, man, probably in my mid-40s, through one of my 58, so probably, yeah, 13, 15 years ago I was still on that journey of you know, and I was emotional with my children and things like that, you know, and I would show a lot of emotion with my family and friends. But in the business world I tried to portray myself kind of as an ass, you know, calling clients out in a really direct, abrupt way. And I remember, josh, one time when I was a young manager at American Express, we had to do one-on-ones every Friday. I had 30 people, I think, reporting to me and I remember one Friday I made three people cry in the one-on-ones and one of them was a gentleman, was a guy about my age at the time I was in my mid to late 20s and I remember getting kudos in the management meeting that day for having a hat trick.

Brian 11:41

I made three people cry and I thought, and so I was faking who I was for a long time, as far as just trying to be this badass of just you know, super stern, and it was drawn on me, man. Number one I wasn't making enough the money that I mean, cause I was not being authentic, as you said. Number two, I was draining myself and then it was just like something clicked in my maybe it was my, maybe it was my late thirties, I don't know. It was probably sometime after my divorce, when I was raising my son, when I was raising Dawson on my own. It probably got. I maybe realized that I I can't be that way with Dawson. So, anyway, I started just becoming more authentic and being vulnerable and sharing things with clients and and you know not being trying to be Superman, and it was so it's been so much better ever since, in every way financially, physically, emotionally, mentally. So I I think what you're onto is something that is desperately needed in our society. It really is.

Josh 12:36

It really is.

Josh 12:38

A hundred percent agree. And if you, if you take an average guy and you look at their strongest relationships they have with other guys, it's probably their buddies, who they have known since elementary school or junior high or high school, right, and what they don't realize is that during that time they were probably very vulnerable with their buddies. They know everything about their buddy that they went to school with and they probably shared some things. So, without knowing, they were vulnerable and that's why it's their best friends. And when you try to say, ooh, I've got to be vulnerable now, well, now you just put a different word on it because it's a judging word, sign of weakness, right? Most people will think but they have done it without using that word. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100%, I've become vulnerable in my friendship. But look where that friendship is. It's a great way of. It's almost like a gateway to connection, empathy and growth.

Brian 13:44

Yeah, Well, I think, way of it's almost like a gateway to connection, empathy and growth. Yeah, well, I think when I, when people think of vulnerable, they think of a dog. That when you walk up to a very submissive dog, it goes on its back and exposes its underbelly. That isn't really the type of vulnerability you talk about. Your vulnerability is you a man could metaphorically do that or figuratively do that, because they showed that means they trust you, so they're going to be vulnerable with their emotions. But also, vulnerability is a confidence meaning. I can, can. I can share with you my story, my feelings and my thoughts. And if you don't like it, I'm confident and strong enough to say that's okay.

Brian 14:15

When people hide their vulnerability and they hide their emotions and thoughts and their feelings, they're really doing that to avoid judgment. When you, when you, do things to avoid judgment and opinions of other people, to me that's a sign of weakness. You're caging yourself. And you guys are uncaged, by the way, that's a perfect name. I've always loved the name uncaged when I read Brooke's book two years ago maybe I don't know.

Intro 14:40

I loved it.

Brian 14:41

I remember I texted Brooke because I was at my daughter's house in Marquette and I came downstairs one morning and her book was sitting on my daughter's couch. She was reading it. Maybe it was a year ago, I don't know. It was a while back. Yeah, it's awesome. It's this perfect concept. So when you were growing up, Josh, was there any individual that inspired you, or any moment, or a book or something? An?

Josh 15:03

experience. Well, or a book or something an experience Well, I wish it was a book, but growing up I probably read two books that were probably clip notes. Now it's actually gotten much better. I have a goal to read 10 to 20 pages a day. For some people that may not be a lot, but for some others that's a real challenge, did you?

Brian 15:25

just ask them who inspired, me or something? Yeah, who or what?

Josh 15:27

or yeah, uh, you know may sound cliche, but it was my dad. Um, because you know, we didn't have everything growing up. I don't even think I went on a spring break, uh, when I was school, because we just didn't have it. And then, growing up with tennis, my first tennis lesson was in college and then I went on to to teach tennis and I think that's why I did. I was able to teach people very simply because I I remember what it was like to not have to do that and go through it just didn't come easy.

Josh 16:01

But my dad was. He always did everything with us. Like you know, we had a boat growing up, so there's a lot of family time and he would wake us up. We would be renting a cottage for two weeks every year for 10 years and 7 am on saturday mornings and sunday mornings he'd wake us up and we would always be like, oh, we just want to sleep, it's too cold, we're not going, but that was best time. And he would play tennis with me almost Well, anytime I asked he would go out and play and sometimes that was five days a week and we'd love to go play at nighttime in the summer under the lights. He played basketball with us. I mean, I can remember the time, the first time I beat him in basketball, and I can remember the first time I beat him in basketball and I can remember the first time I beat him in tennis, and there were always different stages, like basketball. One day I'd be like, okay, I'll let the ball bounce a couple times before you get it and I'll let it bounce once before you get it.

Josh 16:57

But my goal now for my boys is I want to be like that. I want to make sure that when they have a sporting event, I'm there. When they want to say, hey, dad, you want to come out and play basketball, yup, I will be there. You know, I'll drop what I'm doing and let's go play some hoops. Or they want to play tennis or volleyball. Now I got a kid playing golf. Hey, awesome, buddy, you want to go play golf, let's go. But building that so you know that was a really big impact, just how he showed up, and maybe I didn't realize it, but when I look back on it, that's the person that I'm trying to be, you know, with my kids too.

Brian 17:39

I love it. I love it Most. Our job in life is to push our kids a little further along than we were. You know 100%, Going back to you stating you're competitive. Still, I have a personal question to ask you how does that deal? How do you and Brooke deal with that? Because I've got to believe she's probably pretty competitive. I bet she's right there telling you what to say.

Josh 18:02

No, I kicked her out. She's probably listening in the living room, but kicked her out of the office. Is she a little competitive? Absolutely, but we complement each other very well. She just knows there are certain things that I don't let her win.

Brian 18:22

I love it. Where'd you go to college?

Josh 18:24

I went to a smaller Division II school called Ferris State University. It's about an hour north of Grand Rapids.

Brian 18:31

Oh, you're a bulldog. You're a bulldog, yes, yeah, for some reason I thought that I don't know where I picked that up on, but I thought that I don't know if I read it on Facebook or something. I thought you went to Ferris State, yeah.

Josh 18:43

Maybe it was on Facebook or something. I thought you went to Ferris State, yeah no, and I absolutely loved it, but I was in a program called Professional Tennis Management, so my degree was marketing with an emphasis in professional tennis management PTM. So basically it was a program to teach you how to run a tennis program.

The Power of Vulnerability for Men

Brian 19:02

I like that. I've never well, I shouldn't say I've never I played tennis as a kid with my friend sean. We'd go to the tennis courts in my little hometown and just play maybe 25 times, you know, over the course of two summers, but that is a hell of a workout it can be good, is it?

Josh 19:22

I do love it, but I would actually, now that I know what I'm doing, now that I have an understanding of the strategy of doubles, I would play doubles over singles all day long. But just because I like playing the net now but that even took a while before it would just be like I just want to play singles and bang the ball on the baseline are you at a stage now where you're playing pickleball yet, or is that completely different thing? Played my first pickleball tournament about a month ago. How?

Josh 19:50

was that I played with a, with a friend of mine who actually worked with me and taught tennis with me for a couple years. We end up both being back in grand rapids. So I was like, hey, let's go play. And I think I might have played a handful of times we took a ball. So with our tennis background, hey, we didn't do too bad. I think we made it to the quarterfinals and I think we lost to the guys that actually won. But the fun story we were down 9-0 to some guys and I was like Evan, we can't lose 11-0. Like this is ridiculous. Well, guess what happened?

Brian 20:28

You won.

Josh 20:29

Not 11-9.

Brian 20:32

You won 11-9?.

Josh 20:33

We won 11-9. Wow, but the whole time I just kept telling Evan dude, one point, we just need one point, we just need one point, just one point, where he was kind of like, oh my God, dude, we have such a hill decline and it's like, hey, one at a time, buddy, and there it was.

Brian 20:53

Don't call it a comeback. We've been there before, exactly.

Josh 20:56

The guys left going. What the heck just happened?

Brian 20:59

They let their guard down a little bit. Yeah, we're like woo-hoo. You opened down a little bit.

Josh 21:02

Yeah, we're like woo-hoo, you opened that door and we kicked it in. I love it.

Brian 21:07

So you've been on this journey of like personal development for now, for you know, three years or so. What would you say in that time frame has been your greatest learning?

Josh 21:16

Well, well, number one we've talked about already vulnerability is key. Um, and and not to be afraid of what I'm going to uncover and journaling through that stuff has really helped, and not that I have a lot of shit to go through, right. But everybody's got something and I think a lot of times men especially don't even want to grow quote-unquote grow because they just don't want to have to deal with that stuff or realize maybe what they're doing isn't the best, or that a they had a bad experience, but why they don't want to address it. So the biggest thing that I'm learning is is everybody goes through it and everybody's got a story. But I just have to. I may not understand their story, but I can't be judging for what I'm seeing, because I'm only seeing what's going on on the outside.

Josh 22:28

There could be a lot of other stuff.

Brian 22:30

And they're usually yeah, there, usually is, and that's that's one of the things that I have seen the last three years of the podcast. Is everybody that people that are friends of mine or or just acquaintances or somebody I don't even really know? Obviously most of them are. Everybody has a story, I don't care who you are. Everybody has an incredible story with a lot of wisdom to share Everyone. And we look at people, don't you think, josh? We look at people you know we're walking through. Let's go Walmart. That's probably the most extreme example. You're walking through Walmart and you see maybe 75 people. When you're walking through the store, maybe a hundred people, and you really see them on a two-dimensional level. You know up, down and sideways, but if you peer into them and I mean figuratively or literally, where you sit and talk with them, 99.9% of those people are can teach you something if not a hundred percent can teach you something if not 100% can teach you something that you don't know that is necessary for your life.

Josh 23:25

Absolutely.

Brian 23:27

I love what you guys are doing with this.

Josh 23:35

Yeah, it's been fun daily is what prevents, what has prevented me or brooke and other people, is a four-letter word fear, and it's like why do I not do something? Could be a dream or whatever I want to do based off of how somebody else is going to react, but but in reality they may not even react. It's just a fear that I have. I don't want to be judged, I don't want to fail Right. But shit, what happens if I actually did it and I succeeded Right? And sometimes that's a real fear, of somebody's too.

Brian 24:17

I heard a quote the other day and I don't know where it was and I'm trying to think it was. I think it was in a movie I was watching and I wrote it down. It was somebody said well, what if I fail? And the other person said, well, what if you don't? And it was that simple little statement.

Brian 24:35

I was talking to a guy yesterday. His name was Chuck Wackendorfer. He's been on the show twice and he's a he just he's been in the in the executive world for 20 some years with american express and he was was with think to perform as a consultant for a number of years and he just started his own uh success consulting firm and early he's in his early 60s. This guy's a wizard, uh, he's just amazing. But he said we were talking yesterday, I think, um, and he we. He said we were talking yesterday, I think, and he said the two questions you have to ask yourself at any given time is, as he calls the acid test, is am I able to do what it takes to get me what I want in life? So able? And the second question is am I willing to do what it takes to get me what I want in life? So the two questions am I able and am I willing? And it's the able part. People can say yeah, I think I'm able, but am I able and am I willing? And it's the able part. People can say yeah, I think I'm able, but am I willing is sometimes where that fear comes into play that you talked about.

Brian 25:26

Absolutely, and to think about it, josh, most of our fears are completely irrational. They're self-imposed. Yeah, they are. They're so self-imposed. I don't know if you've ever heard this and I don't even know if it's true. I've read it in a number of different studies, but they've been, it's been refuted at times where we are born as human beings with two fears the fear of falling and the fear of loud noises. So we have those innately when we come up, when we come out of the womb. Um, and just about every other fear we put that we have are socialized into us, or they're or we or we. Uh, they're based on our own experiences, our own thoughts and feelings. Or the social society has said spiders and snakes, and obviously some of those you know they're primal because people were killed by spiders and snakes in the past. But the majority of our fears are just completely bullshit.

Brian 26:14

I mean raising your hand and asking somebody on a date speaking in public. I mean going into a store. Some people I coach are afraid to go into certain stores. They just don't like to go into stores. They have a fear about going into Costco or something. I'm like well, guess what you're doing this week? You're going into Costco. It's just funny, though, and we all have those little petty, little irrational fears. We all have tons of them. Oh, absolutely. Do you think vulnerable? So let's say I have a fear of public speaking. Let's just say that's obviously a very common one. If I had that, if I have that fear, do you feel like me becoming a part of uncaged brotherhood and starting to work through my emotions, my exposing myself, being more authentic, being more vulnerable with my thoughts and my feelings and my experiences? Do you think that has a direct tie into me overcoming my fears, whatever they might be?

Josh 27:04

100%. Yeah, absolutely, because if you can share your fears with a group of guys, you can do anything right. I mean, we don't think about it very often, but sharing your feelings with guys that you may not know, that's on a Zoom, because we do everything over zoom. That can be pretty intimidating, but it's going to help us, like so today. Actually, what we discussed today was I had him go through I don't know if you ever done that exercise wheel of life it sounds familiar where you have uh like four or eight different categories and you're supposed to rate it and it's in a circle and then the lowest rated uh area of your life is probably the one that you need to focus on more, and what we talked about today is also the one that has your lowest standard. And when I found that, I was like wait a minute, I don't have a low standard in my life, and brooke and I were talking about that. She's like well, you do, because if that wasn't a low standard, you would have it rated higher. And so I was like, oh shit, that was the. That wasn't. I mean I I probably fought her for an hour on that and like Nope, nope, but you thought about it.

Josh 28:14

So we went through that with the guys today and then I asked them all. I said give me, give me a goal that we can use this group as to be accountable. And some of them were, you know, hey, I want to, I need to be better fitness, I am, I'm on uh, heart medication or high blood pressure medication. Others were like I want to go into a business and start my own business, and that's scary to say. But now what we did today was, hey, we put our fears out in front of the group and now we have accountability.

Josh 28:53

But if we don't meet those goals that we just established with the group, it's okay. I just have to reevaluate, because one of the guys actually put a goal in and I thought it was a safe goal, and I asked them well, why did you have this goal? Why is it not larger? Well, I want to make sure I meet that goal. Okay, but, like you said, what if we set a larger goal? If you don't meet that, it doesn't mean you failed, you just got to keep working at it. I think sometimes, when we establish a goal, we establish attainable goals, which, yes, people say you want to have attainable goals, but I also want to make sure I'm pushing myself to maybe go after something I thought wasn't possible. Again, a limiting belief. That's interesting.

Brian 29:45

I just pulled this up Wheel of Life, so I'm going to take this. When we're done today, I'll probably take it tonight or tomorrow. Actually, I pulled it up. I think it's the right one. It's got 10 areas. Yep, okay, yep, okay. This is powered by Numi. Anybody get on there?

Josh 30:07

Just click wheel of life assessment or we'll, you'll come right up and it's a free assessment. It looks like on here. So, um, yeah, yeah, 100, and you just go through it, highlight or you, you mark where you think you are, where you feel you are in each of those categories, and then the. The category that is the lowest rating that you gave yourself is. It's going to be the category you probably need to work on the most, but it's also going to be the category you don't want to work on the most that's interesting.

Brian 30:27

I'm looking at it right now. You could take it like a minute yeah, it's super simple I might cheat on it, though. Just give myself tens and everything you're perfect, brian, perfect how's that for vulnerability?

Josh 30:40

we need to work on that I better, better join Uncaged Brotherhood. Exactly.

Brian 30:46

Personal question for you. So this is a question a lot of the guests like to hear, or, I'm sorry, a lot of the audience likes to hear, and you go with. This is where you want to, josh. This is, you know, go as deep as you want. What is one of the more difficult things you've ever gone through in your life? And then, what did you use or what did you do to to kind of overcome and go break through that, that that brick wall, so to speak?

Josh 31:08

oh, I'll give you. I'm going to give two examples. One of the hardest things I went through was my divorce. I've been divorced now for going almost six years. That was tough and, uh, I wasn't. It wasn't tough that I was having a failed marriage. What was tough was knowing that the kids weren't going to have a me around 100 of the time and also that I wasn't going to be able to see my kids 100 of the time.

Josh 31:40

I think the biggest thing that helped me through it was knowing that it was. Everything was going to be okay. There's a bunch of other kids that have divorced parents. They're going to be fine and I just had to trust and show up as the dad I wanted to, so that they were really excited to come to dad's house and make it a safe spot. I mean, dude, I remember the first few times that we went out for dinner just the four of us and I felt like everyone was just looking at us going oh, that guy must be divorced, that's why he's with his kids by himself. Now I don't even think about it, right, I mean we just he went. Oh, that guy must be divorced, that's why he's with his kids by himself. Now I don't even think about it, right. I mean we just got used to the idea and it's okay.

Josh 32:32

But that was one of the hardest things. The other one is just really taking a leap of faith and starting the Uncaged Potential. Coaching and that was Brooke was ready. She's been in coaching. It was something new to me. And finally we just, you know, we were trying to grow a business while still working our other jobs and you know, you put in what you, you're going to get out what you put in right, and we just said we need to jump in and we both quit corporate jobs to start our own. And that was probably. You know, we're still learning, but now we have a good group. We have coaches that are helping us do other things and help grow our business and let's hey, let's get some processes in place and all this stuff. So, so that was the hardest thing. But we're also, brooke and I, doing so much growth because now we're in this space but we're also growing together at the same time. I mean we literally sit side by side in office every single day. It's a good thing that we like each other.

Brian 33:39

Well, Brooke's pretty quiet. Though you don't, you must be thinking of the wrong bro oh yeah, wrong past guest I had, I'm sorry, you know.

Brian 33:51

Yeah, oh my god, yeah, you guys both have a pretty matched energy. It seems like, you know, I, we, when you and I and brooke were on the phone sometime last year, we spent some time on the phone together discussing some things and I'm thinking this is a good match. You can tell it's a good match and the cool thing is you guys have a blended family and that's so much more common today. I've done it, obviously, in my marriage 20 years ago and it's kind of a thing of beauty in a lot of ways, especially as we're older. You know, if I was doing it in my 30s, I probably and I don't even know how old you and brooke are. So I, I know I'm 58, so, um, as I've gotten older to be able to, you know, I'm dating an amazing woman, jackie.

Brian 34:34

Right now I've met her daughter and son-in-law and her grandson I've met I've not met her son and his girlfriend yet because they live in Denver, but it's really interesting to meet these when you're, when you love somebody, to meet their children, because it really a lot of times it's kind of an indication of the person they are, how their children turn out or how they're turning out, um, but it's. It's interesting to be able to have some type of impact and influence on someone that maybe a year ago or two years ago or three years ago, you didn't even know they existed and even even though they're adult children a lot of them are you still have. You get to have an impact on them, you know, and be a role model for them. Even from a distance or directly or indirectly, you get to be a role model for someone. I think it's pretty cool, absolutely.

Josh 35:11

Absolutely yeah. So yeah, we have a blended family of seven. So Brooke has two kids. I got three and I got three and when we started dating I was you know her kids are kind of out of the house. She's got a 22 and 20 year old One lives in one's graduated lives in Detroit and then her daughter is a sophomore at Michigan state. And then I was like, are you sure you want to be with someone that's younger kids, like you could be an empty nester and my youngest at the time is, you know, nine. Right, are you sure? But you know, the biggest, such an awesome thing is the relationships there are growing, and the relationships with her kids for me are growing, and the relationships she has with my kids are growing.

Josh 35:55

But the thing that we had, one of the hardest things we had to do, was realize that that relationship may not grow as fast as maybe what we want, but you don't want to force it and that's okay. It's okay that they might not say I love you right away, but now we know we're, we're into it almost two years, yeah, and now the kids are saying love you, love you Brooke, love you Brooke. It just took time. You know how we all are. We want immediate results and we want all one big happy family. Dude, it takes time and I think probably one of the best things that has occurred during our marriage now is that her daughter asked me to go to father's weekend for her sorority that's good stuff that's, that'll put goosebumps down your spine oh, yeah, it was the best.

Brian 36:55

Well, when you're, when you're an adult, and you're well, in this case, a a mixed family. The relationship only develops as quickly as the child wants it to, that's all it does.

Brian 37:09

And that's the best rule is just let the child. You give them the best you can give them and let them lead the relationship development from there At least the timing of it, and I think that's the best advice I ever got. And I've got three amazing bonus sons, and now, with between those three, I've got two grandchildren and another one coming, and those little kids call me grandpa those little, and you know they're it. Just, I never pushed it like hey, I'm not your dad, I'm going to be the best role model. I'll love you and I'll treat you just like a biological child, though, and you'll get the best and you'll get the best of me, but you'll also get the repercussions of the things that and and it worked out. It doesn't always work out, though, but I think a lot of times it's when the parent tries to push it. I think that's a lot of it.

Josh 37:55

Oh, absolutely, cause the parent wants it right away, right when the adult, we want it right away. But you have to be willing to take your time and let the kid come around because I mean, look, you try to force something on somebody, they're just going to push it away. Yeah, so we have to, you know, just let it be and let it grow, and that's probably one of the best things that so far it's been going well. And it's really great when we have all all five kids together, like even the oldest who who's 22, and the youngest, the conversations they have around sports. It's amazing Like the 10-year-old is keeping right up with the 22-year-old and sometimes proving the 22-year-old wrong. It's so funny. Just, the relationship they all have is really good too.

Brian 38:39

Well, you know, when somebody said this and I was listening to Joe Rogan, I think it was Dave Chappelle said this when you have children, when you introduce new children into your life, it doesn't divide your love, it increases your capacity to love 100%. I love that because when you have a step-sibling or a bonus sibling, or whatever the term might it just it gives you one more person that you can love and one more person who can love you in the world, and that's a gift. That's a beautiful gift that's what we said.

Josh 39:11

It's like a brick is a bonus mom. It's one more person and I even, a couple months ago, my, my ex-wife is dating somebody and and him and I met and sat down and he was asking, you know, even asking questions like, do you mind if I do this? And I said, man, I view I'm not intimidated by you, meaning it's not not saying I'm intimidated physically, right, I was saying I'm not intimidated by you in terms of you taking my relationship away from my kids. I see you as an extra person who's there that can love on my kids, help instill good values in my boys and maybe show them something that I'm not familiar with. And you are. And I even told him look, he's a really big hunter and Brooke's family's big hunters Got property up north.

Josh 40:05

I've been hunting the last couple years with him. I love it. But I told that guy, look, if we could all go hunting together, the four of us or five of us, that would be awesome. I would welcome that, right. And he was like, oh my God, are you serious? You would like that? Well, why not?

Brian 40:28

If was like oh my god, are you serious? You would like that, well why not, if we can do something together?

Josh 40:30

show the kids that we can all get along. How powerful is that?

Brian 40:31

there's nothing better for those children's development as well. 100. You know where I was this thanksgiving josh, this past thanksgiving I. So I went down to dawson, my son from. He goes to northern michigan, he's 22. He and I went down to grand rapids to spend the weekend with my bonus sons. Two of them live in Grand Rapids.

Brian 40:46

This is my ex-wife's boys. They're all in their 30s now, and then the middle child, my middle bonus son, and his wife were coming home from Lake Tahoe for a week with their new baby, six months old Ollie their new baby, six months old Ollie. And so Dawson and I spent Thanksgiving week with my oldest bonus son, his wife and they're my granddaughter, mila, in Grand Rapids. And so for Thanksgiving I we all went over to my ex-wife's ex-husband. So my, my bonus boys biological dad. We were there for Thanksgiving and it was we and he and I have been close for 20 years, you know. But we were seeing. So I got there, there was probably 30 people in the house and mostly his family, his new wife's family and kids, and I introduced myself to people I didn't know yet and his sister and brother-in-law were there and his niece. So it's like this is my bonus children's family, and so he goes.

Brian 41:42

Brian grab a drink. Scott did the father, my bonus son's father. We go on the basement. He looks at me. We toasted he goes. This shouldn't work, should it? I said no, he goes. Why has it always worked? I said I don't know. It just has he goes. Nobody can believe this, that you're here for Thanksgiving and you and I have a relationship and it's always been that way. And the next day I was over at my my ex sister-in-law's house in Grand Rapids for the day after a second Thanksgiving with my bonus son. So that's the way it should be. It really should be that way. So kudos to you guys.

Josh 42:14

Yeah.

Brian 42:15

I got a question, so I'm a, I'm a very. I'm this guy and I'm a man in the audience right now and I'm a very I'm this guy. I'm a man in the audience right now and I'm a very masculine man. I feel that masculinity is kind of my go-to thing and I look at this vulnerability as no way in hell I'm going to do that. Maybe I even know what you're saying is true, but I don't feel comfortable being vulnerable. What's a piece of advice you would give that person?

Building Better Blended Families

Josh 42:44

The first thing I would talk about is let's step out of the fear. You want to become, you want to be very manly, then let's, let's identify what's preventing you from thinking that vulnerability is weakness and it's going to be fair. So let's dive into what that is and I would talk about hey, if we can create a group, a community and brotherhood that has high value conversations that will help with accountability and growth, even some leadership and confidence building, would you want to do that? I would hope somebody says yes. Then say but you have to be vulnerable, meaning you have to share. That's where you would get some guys that say I don't know about that, right, but it's the outcome. If we can show you how to be a better husband, a better father, a better friend, a better uh, colleague, wouldn't you want that?

Josh 43:57

And and it's just really understanding what that means, you you know, too many times I think vulnerability says I have to be weak. No, I'm being vulnerable with you right now. I'm just talking about you. It doesn't seem weak. I'm confident in the vulnerability. I'm confident in who I am. Somebody is saying, oh, you're full of shit. Well, is that going to affect me?

Brian 44:21

No, I don't let it affect me.

Josh 44:25

So they have to just be able to want to improve. And then you gotta ask questions to that guy, like you know, where have you seen growth? Where have you seen growth? What are you afraid of? And just that question alone can open up the conversation I love that.

Brian 44:41

I really think that what you just said kind of spawned something in my thoughts. If you can't be vulnerable, you can't be authentic, because the authentic self has vulnerabilities to it. And if you can't be authentic in your relationships or even with yourself, then how are you authentic in your craft, whatever you do for a living, for work, how do you truly give the best that you have when you aren't really being authentic? There's a really good. Have you ever read the book the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand? I have not. Oh man, for years it was my number one favorite book. It's in the top five now.

Brian 45:19

It was written in the early 1950s, I believe, or 40s maybe. It's about an architect who refuses to give up his um, his uh, his style, his values, his, his, uh, his purpose in life for money or for fame, and so it's kind of it's kind of an indictment on society. Really the book is. It's it's like an 800-page book. It takes a while, it takes a lot to read it. But there's a scene in there with the architect.

Brian 45:46

His name is Howard Rourke and he's probably my top five most impactful fictional character of anything I've ever read or seen on the silver screen no-transcript, and he's watching it go up and this critic, who actually tore him down and tried to destroy him, walked up to him on the site and said that building should have been yours, mr Rourke. He said and it's not because of me, I destroyed you. He. He said and it's not because of me, I destroyed you. He goes, we're alone. Tell me now, mr rourke, what you think of me. And the character, howard rourke, looks at him and says but that's the problem, I don't think of you. And it just shuts.

Brian 46:30

It's just one of those scenes in a movie where you just get goosebumps and that, to me, is an authentic man. That's an authentic vulnerable man. He, you know, and I think vulnerability isn't just showing emotions, it's expressing yourself in your work. It's expressing yourself showing emotions. It's expressing yourself in your work. It's expressing yourself in your family. It's expressing yourself in your personal life. It's doing kind of the things that you do that maybe you think other people won't like the way you do it, but you're okay being vulnerable and exposing yourself out there, because that takes courage and that takes balls.

Josh 46:59

A hundred percent, and it's also, um, sometimes the word I or words I will use instead of vulnerability, uh, with some guys is the term grounded masculinity. Grounded masculinity and that really means what is just being rooted, stable and authentic, because they need to be grounded in who they are. Right, it allows men really to navigate their life with confidence, strength, compassion. But they have to be willing to understand and kind of embody this grounded masculinity because it really helps them improve their relationships just what you said make more conscious decisions and foster a really a deeper sense of stealth self, and it's, it's all about that. Grounded masculinity is just being fully present in the moment, attentive and engaged. Like god gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason, we got to use them proportionately, right.

Brian 48:17

Do you feel like sometimes and I'm not judging on this and it's not me, but I see this now that I've noticed, when I'm with somebody who is really hiding that vulnerability, they're really, they're, they're, they're, they're coking it with this masculinity type thing and I, when I look at them, I almost feel I don't want to use the word pity, because that comes with some some that that, to me, is your. I feel more of a what's in there, like what are you trying to hide and why? Why? Because all this wasted energy is we use to try to hide, you know, the things that we truly feel, the way we truly want to exhibit ourselves to the world. We hide that. That takes a lot of energy that, quite frankly, I don't have anymore, right right of the world.

Brian 49:03

We hide that. That takes a lot of energy that, quite frankly, I don't have anymore Right, right and it's just. It's a sad thing and it's really good that people like you are out there kind of uncovering this for men because it's so crucial, but I have to tell you there's a big market for it Because, like I said, so many people over the last, I'm going to say 18 months, maybe longer, maybe a little bit shorter. I've had so many more conversations on with leaders on the power of vulnerability and they always fight it a little bit, but 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it wouldn't even be a conversation. Now it's like they fight it a little bit, but they said, well, tell me a little bit more about what that looks like, cause they think of vulnerability coming into the office and crying about something that happened on the weekends. No, that's not vulnerability.

Josh 49:43

They do. They see vulnerability as somebody who is over there crying and in a fetal position in the corner of the room.

Brian 49:51

Exactly and what do you see it as? So here's the deal. You just painted a very good visual picture of how a lot of men see vulnerability, of a person in the corner crying in the fetal position. If you had to paint the opposite picture of that, what does that look like physically? How would you describe physically a person who is truly vulnerable and authentic?

Josh 50:17

If I see, well, I'm going to go back. If I see somebody who is not willing to do that, I told you I was competitive. I see that as a challenge and I'm like, all right, I'm going to talk to this guy and find out why. Hey, he may come around, he may not. It's totally on him. There's no right, there's no wrong. But I see that, okay, I want to start challenging him to see this, and let's ask him certain questions.

Brian 50:44

What was your second part of the question like how would so I, when you said that how most men paint vulnerability, it's kind of the visual is the person in the corner in the fetal position crying what? Yeah? What is the actual physical depiction of a person who truly is vulnerable and authentic in themselves?

Josh 51:03

Do you have one guy that you know you can call and talk to? Yes, that's my guy. That's the guy who has always been vulnerable. He's there. Everybody has that person right. Everybody has a guy that knows. If I get in trouble, I can call this guy. If I need help, I can call this guy. If I need to just talk to somebody and have them listen, I can talk to this guy.

Josh 51:31

And why? It's probably because that guy is someone that you feel safe to be vulnerable with, without even knowing, and that guy is a good listener. So what is that guy? He's vulnerable. He's there to listen. He's not judging, so you feel safe. So a guy that is vulnerable is the guy that you see and you totally trust. You're like. That guy most of the time is probably in a pretty good mood. I like being around him. He's relatable, he doesn't judge me because that guy is just sitting there and he's vulnerable because to me, being vulnerable is just being open and being really who you are has nothing to do with like crying, being we all Cause. It's a lot better to be kind of open than than being so closed off.

Brian 52:28

And what you just said was I liked, I liked how you painted that, because I thought of like three men right away, actually. Then a fourth one came to mind as you, as you were talking, and when I think of those men, I think of strong, very strong, yeah, and because I wouldn't go to them if they weren't. You know, you were talking and when I think of those men, I think of strong, very strong, yeah, and because I wouldn't go to them if they weren't, you know, if somebody wasn't open to. I'm going to them because I need them at that moment. I don't want to go to somebody who's weak, but I'm also going there because they are, in fact, vulnerable and they're authentic and they care and they can get emotional.

Brian 52:58

Um, I have a really good friend who's six foot, 300-pound, ex-college football lineman, defensive lineman, and we have had over the. We've known each other for 29 years In fact. I think when Michigan won the national championship was last year and that was our 28th year anniversary of being friends. So now it's been 29 years and we're both big, diehard michigan fans. So, um, I know it doesn't suit a lot of people, especially when one of the kids is going to michigan state but um, but we were talking about that and we couldn't count. We could not count on both of our hands how many times he and I have held each other and cried in 29 years. You know we both went through a divorce together, both fought for custody. You know we both were friends as he went through a divorce. I went through a divorce, fought for custody of our kids together. You know he was in my wedding when I got married. We've just, you know, went in for years. You know he'd call, I'd call, and we might not talk for six months.

Brian 54:08

But then when you need somebody and that phone rings, one of us is answering so yeah, and that could be that really could be another definition of vulnerability is being strong. Yeah, I, I don't, you know, and you, you can't be strong without being vulnerable. I don't think you can I just think like, like.

Josh 54:17

But the thing too which is so crazy is you can't. I just think like, but the thing, too, which is so crazy is you can have. Each person can have a different definition of a word. Yeah, right, if I look at somebody who is strong, somebody could just say, oh, that guy, you know he could bench whatever 225, 20 times that he's squatting 600 pounds. That's a strong guy, yeah. Or a definition, what you just described with your buddies he's strong, but he's there for somebody to listen. He was there being supportive. That's a strong dude too.

Embracing Grounded Masculinity

Brian 54:51

Well, physical strength dies when you get older. Emotional strength gets stronger when you get older. You know, if you build that A hundred percent.

Josh 54:59

I'm in denial of that. I go to the gym every morning and I just, I keep thinking. I'm in denial of that. I try to. I go to the gym every morning and I just I keep thinking my 48 in a couple couple of weeks. Here I still think I'm, I'm 20, but my back reminds me that I'm not.

Brian 55:12

Hey, josh, your, your fifties is your best decade. I promise you I'll take it Is. I can't wait. And when I hit 60, I'm going to say 60 is in my best decade. I've loved every decade I've lived in man Because you know, if you take care of your body and your mind, you only get stronger.

Brian 55:29

I mean, your body is of course going to, the capacity of your body will decrease. You know, I'll never bench, but I've never run as fast as I used to. I'll never do that. But if you just maintain and have a strong, healthy body, that's okay. Cause we're not, I'm not playing professional sports, I'm not making money off my body. As long as I'm in a very healthy, best shape, I can be at my age. But then if you work your mind, your mind just keeps getting stronger and I don't think you know. Somebody asked me how long I'm going to keep doing what I do and I said I don't know 80. Cause I don't think in this field and I believe this you don't hit your peak in the consulting world until you're in your seventies. I think early seventies is when you really hit your peak.

Brian 56:06

And because you're just got so much, because you, after a while, you just stop caring about what people think of how you do it. You just give the best damn service you can to your clients and you it. Just we're in a very unique position. You and I and Brooke are, and so many people I've had on the podcast and so many of my friends who are in consulting and coaching is that the stuff we teach our clients we can also use ourselves. So you're getting better at your job as you're teaching clients and you're using the same and you're learning from them at the same time, where a lot of fields aren't that way Like you do a job like if I'm a CPA. God loves CPAs and we need them. They're very beneficial, but you're not necessarily getting better. You're not improving yourself by doing somebody else's taxes. You know you're getting better at your craft, but when you do our job, you're also learning and implementing it yourself. So you're kind of growing with your clients, which is so rare and so cool.

Josh 57:16

A hundred percent, and that's part of another reason why I wanted to start Uncaged Brotherhood, the men's group, because it also allows me to continue my growth, and I told the guys from day one, day, one last week, which was day'm doing is I'm the one putting my foot forward, taking the fricking chance, being out there, being vulnerable, because I still want to grow and I'm going to be growing with them, side by side. Yeah, and let's do this together, because the group is only as strong as the men that are in it.

Brian 57:37

Yeah, Hmm, well, we're going to include I'm going to make sure we include a link to the Uncaged Brotherhood on the podcast here, the show notes. So as well as Uncaged potential coaching too. So I have a question for you. So I have a time machine. Metaphorically, I'm going to come down to GR and we're going to jump in at this afternoon and we're going to fly off to some stage in your early development of your life I don't care if it could be from five to 35, but some earlier stage of your life and you're going to sit down on the park bench and talk to the young version of Josh. What would you say to your young self? What words of wisdom, recipes for success or advice would you give yourself?

Josh 58:17

I would go talk to the seventh grader and tell him stop being afraid of everyone else, stop being afraid of judgment and go do what you want, because really those people probably aren't even thinking about what you're thinking of, how you think they're judging you. And go do what you want to do and don't let that stop you.

Brian 58:45

So I just want to repeat what Josh just said, because I think that's the best advice you can give anybody, regardless of age, is stop being afraid of everyone else, stop being afraid of judgment, and go out there and do what you want to do and that is what he's talking about with authenticity and vulnerability and true strength. Because, right there, if you're not afraid of other people and you're not afraid of other people's judgments and you're living the life you want to live on your own terms, that is the epitome of strength, and anything other than that is you're kind of going down that spectrum toward weakness. So, right there, he just proved that vulnerability and authenticity is strength. Because I think that when I look at not being afraid of other people's judgments or other people's or their thoughts, and living life under my own terms, I think that's truly being vulnerable. You're putting yourself out there. You're putting yourself out there for ridicule and judgment and people trying to tear you down.

Josh 59:46

If you do it anyway, holy shit's. That's vulnerability and that's strength. And and if, if you are being judged, or somebody's judging you or makes you, makes a nasty comment or whatever, or puts you down or says you can't do that, it comes down to really they're not judging you, they're judging themselves. Amen, you know, amen, you know they don't have the will or the guts or the passion to go after something, so they're judging you because they know they wouldn't want to do it.

Brian 1:00:11

I couldn't agree more. Have you seen the book Let them by Mel Robbins?

Josh 1:00:15

I just read it.

Brian 1:00:16

Did you read it? Did you like it?

Josh 1:00:18

Yeah.

Brian 1:00:18

It's a good book.

Josh 1:00:19

I read the whole thing. Yeah, brooke, and I will say that all the time, we just got to let them.

Brian 1:00:24

That's what Jackie and I say.

Josh 1:00:25

Let them and then let me.

Brian 1:00:27

Yeah, let them and let me. I mean so everybody out there. That's a book I'd recommend. It's a green book. It's every bookstore you go into. It's right there when you walk together. That's something we say when somebody cuts me off in traffic. I'm like God damn it. She'll say let them. I'm like all right, Jeff. Now you're really throwing it back in my face now, aren't you?

Josh 1:00:50

Exactly. You're like oh okay, let them, and then I'll let me, okay.

Brian 1:00:55

It is a great book, though I like her stuff because I think she could write her books in about a third of the time that takes her to write the books. But she does do a good because they're very simple and the five second rule, the high five, you know high five mirror thing, and there's so many good things that let them. They're so simple but yet I do like how she gives a lot of examples and stories. So she does draw her books up, but I think they're well worth it. I mean, they're good stuff. So what's next for you, my friend?

Josh 1:01:22

Oh man, you got a lot of stuff going, yeah, so much. I mean, we are growing the Uncaged Potential Coaching. That's where Brooke focuses on. We really focus on real estate agents who have kind of hit a plateau and a lot of times that could be. They're just they hit a plateau in their own beliefs and so brooke is working with them. We're growing that and it's growing uncaged brotherhood.

Josh 1:01:50

I really see this as a group of guys. They're going to come together and we can even do excursions or weekend trips. There's a, you know there's. I see myself someday being on stage with a bunch of other male coaches and we're just trying to get there. And then you and I talked about it earlier there's we got to get this podcast started and of course that's going to be called uncaged as well, and I think we just got this whole thing going and it's just really really just coming together with Brooke and I and just letting people know, let people see who we really are. Yeah, because we don't know everything, but we're the ones that are just trying to do the best we can with what we have and just share it with everybody else.

Brian 1:02:37

Well, you're doing really necessary work. You both are. They're doing really necessary work, you both are. And to pinpoint this Uncaged Brotherhood journey, I think that's just. I'm so glad because I, like I said, I've seen it. It's necessary, it's becoming more prevalent in today's society with executives or anyone out there. I see it in the executive world a lot, where they're noticing the necessity of that, probably because of these young generations coming in, are kind of expecting that a little bit more. They're a little more in touch with their emotions than our generation, um, or previous generations um, and I. So I think it's it's, it's a very powerful untapped niche that you guys are going to rock.

Josh 1:03:16

Thank you, yeah, but that podcast hey, I do remember you guys.

Brian 1:03:19

When I talked to you guys on the phone last year you did say I would be one of your guests on your podcast. So absolutely oh you better I've had. I've had you guys on three times I've had the past years on. Three times I've had the past years on before it was. She was even a past year she was still a crable, I think yeah, she was all right, josh.

Brian 1:03:39

One final question is is there any question I did not ask that you wish I would have. Or is there any final direct message you want to leave with that one Bamboo Pack member out there who's struggling?

Josh 1:03:54

Just take the step. Take the step to start doing what you really want to do, and it doesn't have to be like an immediate all in, but every day do something that take gets you one step closer. And it could be so simple as just reading a damn book, reading 10 pages right, or looking something up. But do something every day that gets you one step closer. But also you should almost do something every day that gets you one step closer. But also you should almost do something every day that scares the shit out of you.

Brian 1:04:26

Ah, I love that one Do something every day that scares the shit out of you, and you know what, honestly, when and I don't want to wrap up on that because there's so much around this. Let's keep going for just a second here, if we could. I we're doing this thing right now. I'm working with my clients, josh on, called voluntary adversity, and I did a podcast on it uh, I don't know a few weeks ago, but I aired it this week um, just a single me talking. And I did a talk to a group in michigan state, or, I'm sorry, in lansing, michigan last thursday on voluntary adversity.

Brian 1:04:59

And the concept is voluntary adversity is something, in my opinion, something that scares the shit out of you, so it takes you out of your comfort zone. That's the first part of the definition. Number two it has to be something that's positive for you or someone else. It can't be hey, I'm going to go try heroin, because that is something that would take you out of your comfort zone, but it's not a real positive thing. It's got to be something that betters you or someone else and it's got to be voluntary. It can't be mandated and it can be as simple as don't hit your snooze button in the morning. It can be as simple as get up and do five push-ups. If you haven't done a push-up in three years, it can be. Yeah, you said it can be. Sit down and read rather than watching, uh, netflix or scrolling through youtube. It's just something that takes you out of your comfort zone, and that's how people become happy.

Josh 1:05:41

That's it could be walking into the gym it could be walking into the gym it could be walking into a therapist, if we need to do that.

Brian 1:05:49

It could be walking into a restaurant that you've always wanted to go to, but you're by yourself, yep it could be asking someone on a date, raising your hand in a meeting or a class, challenging a little bit of authority anything, just if it makes you uncomfortable, it's positive do it class challenging a little bit of authority anything. Just if it makes you uncomfortable, it's positive, do it. I mean, it scares the shit out of people, doesn't it?

Do Something That Scares You Daily

Josh 1:06:05

well, I remember. That brings it up, it's good to show me. When I, uh, brooke and I met on a dating app and um, and so I remember we were chatting and we were chatting so well, I think after like the second day I was like forget it, I'm gonna ask her out because I don't want to. You know a lot of the stuff we're finding out on the dating app I want to save for the first date, right, right. So it was like 10 o'clock, I asked her out. It was only the second day that we were chatting, so I asked her out. No response, I got nothing, scared the shit out of me. And then, of course, the next day, at like 10 o'clock in the morning, she responded and was like oh sure, you know, I'd be happy to. I just went to bed. I'm like, oh, it killed me, I had to go to bed. Oh, I guess she wasn't ready for that one.

Brian 1:06:53

But you know, those dating apps are crazy, man. I had never had success on them and I've tried them. I went on two dates 20, 20 years ago after my divorce, when I mean I shouldn't say when I met two women and we dated for a couple of months each. I just didn't feel the connection. They were both great women, so I I just never found it like I was on them, I.

Brian 1:07:11

But then that's how Jackie and I met and I you know it was always the you match. Then you say, hey, great to match with you. You're hoping having a great day. That was my standard thing.

Brian 1:07:20

And so finally, what she put on there on her profile said if you ride a motorcycle, if you smoke cigarettes and if you have a long beard, like I'm not interested, or something like that. So I just said so, I just I reached out to her and I said you know we matched. And I said, hey, I'd love to pick you up on my motorcycle, I'd love to something like I can't we? I saved the words because I said I'd love, love to take you for a ride on my motorcycle with my cigarette dangling from my mouth and my long beard blowing in the wind behind you or in your face, and I just left it at that and she said she read that she's like is this guy serious? And then finally she figured that was a joke and then she responded I'm like, okay, I cracked the code, I should have started with that all along.

Brian 1:08:03

but I'm glad I didn't, because I found a great one, so I'm glad I didn't crack the code.

Josh 1:08:07

I would have gone and picked Brooke up on my motorcycle, because I do have one. We've gone on some dates, but even I remember our first date. She was 30 minutes late and I was like, oh, oh, my, it was so funny because the the waitress we were meeting in a restaurant in grand rapids. I got there, you know, on time. What's funny about this real quick story? No, no, stop.

Josh 1:08:31

But as I was walking to the restaurant, I passed a kind of homeless shelter and there was there's. Well, oddly enough, there was probably about eight guys standing there Right and so they started talking to me and I had no problem. So I'm just chatting with them. And one of the guys is like man, you know, you're all dressed to the nines, brother, where are you going? What's going on? I told the story, you know, meet and got a first date. And the guy was like hey, you know, that's awesome, man, tell us how it goes when you're done. And I go oh, are you guys still going to be here? The guy looked at me. He's like where do you think you're going, buddy? I was like oh, touche, okay, all right, sure enough.

Josh 1:09:10

Well, I go into the restaurant, sit down Neskin restaurant. So I order a margarita and luckily Brooke does text. She's like hey, hey, I'm running a little bit late, I'll be right there, but I am coming. I was like, cool, finished number one margarita. The waitress comes around, what do you want? I'm like, well, I guess she's still coming, so I'll take another margarita. That margarita goes down pretty easy. Brooke's still texting, the lady calls and she's like uh, you want your check? And I'm like, oh, no, she's coming. Can I have another margarita though, please? And so three margaritas in.

Josh 1:09:48

She finally does show up and I remember brooke sat down, you know. I'm like, hey, you know, nice to meet you. We chat and the waitress comes over. She's like oh, we really didn't think you were coming. And brooke, just really quick, whip, whip. Oh, I'm not his date, I'm just his friend. He, oh, we really didn't think you were coming. And brooke, just really quick, with with oh, I'm not his date, I'm just his friend. He called up, he didn't want to look like he was, and I was like oh. And then the last story we chat excuse me, we chatted for hours at that place, shut it down, so we're walking back, and sure, I'm walking her to her car, and we pass the group of guys and I still remember to this day. They're like, hey, how'd the date go? Oh, is this your date? Oh man, she's beautiful, this is awesome. And one of the guys is like we've known this guy forever, he's a great guy, you found a good one. And I'm like I just like that.

Brian 1:10:40

That guy gave him a look and I was like, oh, that's awesome well, when you, when you show up, when she shows up and you have three drinks in and you get endorsed by the homeless man, she's got to love you at that point. You're not beating that story. There's something there, dude. That's a baller move having three margaritas on a first date before she arrived. That's a baller move having three margaritas on a first date before she arrived.

Josh 1:11:03

That's a baller move.

Brian 1:11:03

I had to call my nerves and everything I'd have been sitting on the floor by the time she got there bumbling. I would have been in the guy in the fetal position in the corner crying right, oh, it was there, it was good, I was just.

Josh 1:11:16

I had a good meal, some tacos, that kind of helped take the uh the edge off.

Brian 1:11:24

What restaurant did you guys go to?

Josh 1:11:26

We went to Luna. Where is that? It's downtown Grand Avenue. Oh, okay, right downtown.

Brian 1:11:33

All right, josh, before we hang up, I have one more question. This is one that I've only asked once, but we've talked about fear, so I'm going to ask you a question. Let's say that I have a magic wand wand and right now I can wave it through the microphone and I can sprinkle a little magic dust through the microphone into you, and you could. For that, that magic would eliminate all of your irrational fears. For the next seven days, you'd have no irrational fears, nothing. If that were the case, what would you do differently this week?

Josh 1:12:05

No irrational fears, they're all gone. Okay, no irrational fears. I would reach out to the guys that I've known and haven't because of fear, I would reach out to them. I would. That's such a good question. If I had no fear, I would just put it out there. I would go on social media scream at the top of my lungs what broken.

Brian 1:12:41

Did I lose you? I might have lost you. Oh, there you're back. I hear you you'd, you'd. So the second one would you get on social media and scream out to the top, at the top of your lungs, what you and brooke are working on?

Josh 1:12:54

yep, I would say, we would start that podcast all right.

Brian 1:12:58

Well, now you've got some marching orders yeah, yeah, exactly, here we go. So when I have you on the podcast next, you'll say, yeah, I did all those things that week. I think the podcast is a great idea, I think what you guys are doing is amazing and I just thank you because it's necessary for the people, it's necessary for men, it's necessary. You're Uncaged Brotherhood, and what you and Brooke are doing, together with Uncaged Potential Coaching, is powerful stuff. Keep it going, brother. The world needs you.

Josh 1:13:25

Love it, man. Thank you so much.

Brian 1:13:26

Thank you, josh. We'll have you on again soon. Stay on for just a minute after. I'd love to talk to you after we're done. Recording, please Sounds good, all right, everyone, please look on the bottom of the show notes and check out potential coaching as well as Uncaged Brotherhood. Check out what they're doing. I'll include any links I can to social media just so you can get more information from Josh and from Brooke and their endeavors. It's good stuff. It's actually great stuff, and I can honestly attest to that, or I wouldn't have had them both on the show three times now between the two of them.

Brian 1:13:56

I want to take this time to thank all of you for reaching out, or for reaching out for tuning in again this week. Please hit that like button. Please rate and review us, good or bad, and please share this episode with three people you love and care for. This would be a great one for some men out there that you just share with some of your brothers. I'll talk to you all in a week. In the meantime, get out there and strive to give and be your best. Please show love and respect to others, but go back and share it to you with yourself as well, and please.