The Bamboo Lab Podcast
"Ordinary people doing extraordinary things!"
The Bamboo Lab Podcast
Frank Mossett's Leadership Lessons: Potential vs Talent, Energy Hours, and Seeing The Good in Others
What makes the difference between good leadership and transformational leadership that changes lives? Frank Mossett returns to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with powerful insights from his decades of developing people and creating success stories across the financial industry.
Frank shares his revolutionary approach to hiring and developing talent, challenging conventional wisdom with the question: "Do you hire potential or talent?" His answer might surprise you—and could transform your approach to building teams. Drawing from his experience turning around troubled organizations, Frank reveals what truly motivates people to perform at their best.
The conversation introduces Frank's game-changing concept of "Energy Hours"—the limited windows when we're truly engaged and focused each week. "I think you only have so many hours that you're engaged, you're focused and you're driven a week. I don't think it's 40. I think it's 20 or less," Frank explains. This perspective upends traditional ideas about productivity and work schedules, offering a fresh approach to maximizing impact while maintaining balance.
Perhaps most powerful is Frank's reflection on his wrestling coach Rudy Thompson, whose funeral revealed a legacy of hundreds of transformed lives. "At Rudy's funeral... 400 or 500 people there in a small town, people talking about 'he changed my life,'" Frank recalls, admitting, "I thought to myself, I can do better." This poignant moment frames a deeper discussion about what success truly means—not titles or bank accounts, but the lasting impact we have on others.
Whether you're a seasoned executive, an emerging leader, or someone striving to make a meaningful impact in your corner of the world, this conversation offers practical wisdom about empowerment, consistency, vulnerability, and creating a legacy that outlasts your name. Listen now and discover how to stop merely working long hours and start transforming lives.
https://bamboolab3.com/
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, peak Performance Coach, brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and soar? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you, all of you strivers, thrivers and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at wwwbamboolab3.com.
Brian:Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab Podcast. All right, so, folks, some of you might remember, back in October of 2022, I had Season 1, episode 51, and I brought on one of my amazing friends, somebody I've known for now 32 years, 33 years. We had Frank Mossad on. He did an episode called have Fun and Create Wealth and this episode just took off. It was one of the biggest podcasts we had for quite a while.
Brian:It lasted on the top shelf for a couple of months, but then Season 2, episode 96, I think July 17th of 2023, I brought on Frank's daughter, sarah, and our sole purpose, our sole goal in that episode was to beat her dad in downloads and subscribers. Listen what she did and to this day, his daughter Sarah is the number one most downloaded podcast and subscribed podcast on the Bamboo Lab podcast. I think I checked this morning she's in 20, some different countries, which is really good for a single podcast, so she's number one. So I had to have her dad back on because he's one of my dear friends.
Brian:We keep in contact quite often and one of the things I love about Frank is he's one of the most down to earth yet successful men I've ever met in my life. He has changed more people's lives than probably anyone else, or he's in the top five anyway of all the people I know who have legitimately changed people's lives than probably anyone else, or he's in the top five anyway of all the people I know who have legitimately changed people's lives from the day they get out of college to where they are today. So I can tease him a lot, but he's one of the most influential people in my life and so, without further ado, my friend Frank, welcome back to the Bamboo Lab podcast.
Frank:Right, I wish you could see the smile on my face as you talk about my daughter. She'd still be like I kicked your ass. So bad dad. Yes, you did. Baby thing is you're gonna get beat by your kid. Are you kidding me?
Brian:that's what you designed your kids for to beat you you gotta push them further up the screen than you got. I don't see her being dethroned anytime soon on the show because it's like I get these other episodes that start climbing fast and they all like number two through 15 kind of rotate. You get new, new episodes in and some drop off. Hers has just been at the top from. Maybe it's like third, fourth week after we aired it. It's going to be a while for her to be dethroned, so we can try this time, but good luck. Well, this try this time, but good luck.
Frank:Well, this will put a smile on your face. We went and watched her. She's finished in law school. We watched her present in front of the chief circuit court judge I believe it was in a mock trial and he's been doing it seven years, I think. Three classes a year. So she's one of whatever 21 groups have presented. She presented and she killed it. Brian killed it and I could see the judge smiling and nodding and at the end of the day he gave feedback. He's like Sarah, like I gotta believe you spent hours and hours and hours prepping because you legitimately presented better than anybody I've ever had in this courtroom on this case. Wow. And so, sarah, I'm like looked at her and she's like your honor. I have to be honest with you. I just looked at this case last night.
Frank:I've been so busy with my other classes so would you say that's potential or talent or a combination thereof? Oh, I think.
Brian:Potential, yeah, yeah, potential, oh my gosh but I mean she's got raw talent too. I mean she came on the podcast. I know. When we talked about having her on a couple of years ago, I thought, well, I don't know I mean I don't really know her we got to, we talked a couple of weeks prior to shooting the episode. I thought, oh, she's very impressive. But when she was on it was like a switch, a light switched in her and she just became next-level presenter and next-level communicator and I think there's a lot of talent in there too. There's a lot of raw talent, but obviously a lot of drive too.
Frank:Yeah, well, another year she's off my payroll, so I'm excited about that. You know you had Byron Gag on Brian Mora and Brian, he just took a major job at the firm in business development and a huge upgrade of who the guy was. I mean both those guys. As I think about it, you know because I knew them both early. Byron, I was his leader.
Frank:But it brings up the question do you hire potential or talent? You know what I mean. Byron Gagin, when he talked I just smiled. He said this guy had so much raw potential. Yet you came in and worked with him and you, I mean you changed that guy's life right Because you took that potential and developed it. But I you know I've been talking to a lot of I've had a few conversations with a lot of people on it is just do you hire potential? Do you hire talent when you, when you add somebody to your firm or your business or you're, you're hiring a leader? Which one is more important? And you got an opinion on that one. I just went through this with another client.
Brian:Yeah, my thoughts are, and I think it's a great question. I think it's a question that a lot of leaders out there and decision makers in business really have to ponder. I don't think a lot of people do ponder it though, Frank. I think they look who interviewed well, Do they meet the qualifications? Do they fit a role? Let's go.
Brian:My thoughts are if you can develop people, higher potential, If you're just good at managing people but not really good at developing to the next level, higher talent. But then what's the next question that I think you brought up to me at an earlier time is are there different levels in the industry where a more advanced stage executive level position can you hire for potential, or do you have to hire for talent at that point? Because do you have a lot of time to develop a person who has massive influence over an organization? So me, I would almost always go for potential, unless the level of the responsibilities that have in the organization are really, really massive and macro. Then I'd probably go more for talent at that time, because you know, are you going to develop anybody who's already at an executive level? You're not going to develop them as much as you are at somebody at a middle level or a very junior level in an organization. I don't think that's my thoughts. What do you think?
Frank:You know, I agree with you and I think it's do you have the talent to develop these people? That's a huge question. Are you committed to it? Right? Are you committed to it, all right? If I'm going to hire this person, I have to spend more time developing, coaching, working with them, and if you don't have the time to do it, you're sort of forced to hire talent. But then you have to ask good questions, right? You know I go through a lot of times. I'll do a last interview to help somebody out and at the end I'll be like I get you, you love them, they've got a lot of talent, but they've been at five different jobs in the last three years, or five different jobs in the last eight years. Why are they job hopping In this world? If you have talent and potential, nobody's letting you go, and potential, nobody's letting you go. Your employer is doing everything they can to keep you, because that's pretty obvious. So I think you have to steal, in a weird way, talent and potential from somebody else by paying them more money.
Brian:Yeah, I think you do. The only way that your case may fall apart and I don't think it's that common is if it's just not a good cultural fit where they were before. But if they've won four or five jobs prior to you, then it's not really a problem with the cultural fit, it's a problem with you not fitting into a culture. So I think it mostly is I think you have to headhunt people who have both. I think you have to headhunt people who have both, because I think it seems like you and I were taught back in the day and I still use this kind of the three circles that intertwine almost like the Olympic circles knowledge, skill and desire. You have to have knowledge and you have to know what to do, skill and how to do it, which I think is talent. But then you have to have that desire and the why to do it, and I think that's talking. I think that's kind of what I see when we talk about potential and talent. It's kind of a combination of knowledge, skill and desire. And what I find and honestly I don't think it's a sign of the times, because you know, in the last quarter century of doing this, I don't see a lot of people who have both. I don't see a lot. I do see them, but when you find that person, man, grab on and do not let go. Give them what they want, remove obstacles out of their way. I mean, that's what you've done, frank. And you look at the people and I've been blessed to have worked with you.
Brian:You were my first really breakthrough in my practice. And what was it? 28 years ago, after I was picking coins out of my couch cushions and digging through my daughter's piggy bank to pay bills and get food in my mouth, after I left American express and you called me and said, hey, come on with the Portland and uh, work and coach some of our people. And I look at the track record and the braille, the breadcrumbs of the talent you have created and developed over the years. Dude, you've created a small country. I mean, do you have any idea? Would you be able to guess? I don't want you to self-break because that's not really your style, but do you ever think of how many people, how many multi-millionaires or multi-millionaires you've created in your career? So you're the better person to answer those questions.
Frank:Yeah, that's a great question because I do. I just got a text last week from a manager that used to work for me and and he's living a beautiful life doing stuff with his kids, doing everything, and he shared with me some numbers and I mean he's making over a million bucks, right, but he's it's not about the money, it's about the lifestyle. It's, yeah, you make the money, but if you can do what you want to do in life and who you want to be, and you know, be a good christian, be a good parent, be a good brother, friend, and that and that's what he described to me I, how many people at that level? I, 20, 30, 40, 50, and you know it matched down. I, you know, I can't, I think, wait a few hundred, five hundred people that make a few hundred grand in a year. They're living really cool lives and that's what drove me when I was doing the leadership, and I think one of the reasons I decided to retire is we went from hiring new advisors and developing people to hiring experienced advisors.
Frank:Yeah, and that wasn't my thing, I didn't. I can do it. Yeah, and that wasn't my thing. I didn't, I can do it, but I didn't. I didn't have the same gratification or the same fulfillment from taking an experienced advisor over and helping them move their book. I'd rather develop somebody and help them grow and build, but I love the potential and I'm not and I was never a great manager. I mean, I think if you're going to hire experience, you have to be a great manager. I mean I think if you're going to hire experience, you have to be a good manager. You just dig into the details. You're a micro-manager. My old boss was an amazing manager, one of the best managers I've ever worked for Maybe not a leader and he was a leader, but he was a better manager.
Brian:And that was never my thing. No, I always tell people you either are a good builder or you're a good manager of anything in life, and I've never been a good manager of anything. I like to build stuff, build people, build ideas, but when it's built, don't give it to me, because I'm going to get bored with it real quickly. I was the kind of kid. As a kid I built tree forts and the next day I'd tear them down and build a better one. I was the kind of kid as a kid I built three forts and the next day I'd tear them down and build a better one. The next day I'd sleep in it a night or two and then I'd build another one. I didn't like to look at it once I was done. I got bored with it.
Brian:You know, I do think that you and I have been in the industry roughly the same or connected to the industry. You've been in the actual industry longer than I have. Obviously, I was only in it for five years, but you and I have been connected to the financial industry for well over 30-some years now, and one of the things that I hear a lot about you, frank, when I talk to people I share with you prior to the airing today or the recording that I talked to, I think, three or four people in the last two weeks who you and I have both had impact on. And I do hear that I do talk to other people who have had impact, like I've shared an impact with another person. Maybe I'll say a John Smith or some other and that's a fictional name, but and they'll a lot of times when you have a person like you, who's been in the industry, who's impacted so many lives, you hear negative things about them too.
Brian:You do, you know, like he really helped me, but he me, but he was a, he was an asshole with you. I never hear that. It's always oh God, he that, that guy did it right. That guy, you know he, he saved my life, he changed my life, he saved my career and just a good, solid dude and I'd. I would definitely agree with him on that about you, cause I think one of the things you've done really well, frank, that a lot of successful people don't I think the world needs to hear this is you've really maintained a really good work-life balance Like you never really got.
Brian:You got totally involved with your career but you never let the career control you and I always respected that about you. You had me out in Portland, then I followed you to Kansas City, then I followed you to Boston. I kind of followed you around doing coaching with your people, got to meet the people you were leading and developing and obviously got to watch you in action. But you never really too badly like a lot of corporate executives and leaders do. They get so sucked up that their family goes by the wayside, and I'm sure that happened at times. It happens to all of us at times. How do you juggle those two almost dichotomous avenues in your head of work and personal life? What did you do differently? Or what did you do differently than most people?
Frank:You know, I think that's a huge issue that most businesses are fighting with right and I agree with you that I feel like I did a pretty good job of that. I certainly erred on that, you know, when I was running Kansas and Boston at the same time I was living in an airplane to the top organizations in the company at Time for New Advisors. I mean I didn't do a good job then but most of my career I have. You know, I think part of it is like the one-minute manager meets the monkey. You know, one of my favorite books is delegating. Right is finding good people. I mean, when I was in Oregon and Boston and Kansas, man, I knew that if I had young advisors with a lot of potential and I couldn't spend the time with them, if I brought you in as an example, you would take that raw potential and build a Picasso. If you really look at it, you did. I mean, I'm guessing in my organization people I've hired and recruited, trained 50 to a hundred could look at and say Bozley had a huge impact on my career, right and I and I I found good people to help.
Frank:Um, but it's also about prioritizing, I mean what's most important to you and I, my career has never been the most important. I mean, I, I love waking up next to my wife every day, you know so, for traveling was hard on me. I didn't want to do it, and I and I remember when I was in Kansas city, I was offered Chicago, then I was offered Ohio as a next level up right, and I turned him down, and I might have told you this, I was very careful about presenting it at the time. One, I wasn't overly fond of where I was going to have to live, but I was coaching my son's baseball team, and we had a chance at legitimately being number one I think he was second grade, or something like that. Legitimately, we had the chance of the championship.
Frank:When else am I going to have an opportunity to do that? I don't need this job. I've always made enough money. I mean, money's never really been. I'm frugal. I spend a third, I save a third, and then the government takes their 30%, or well, probably 40%. I do think, though, you have to have that as a priority, and I talk to a lot of people about what's your model work week look like, you know, and where are you spending time, and we haven't talked about this, but I have a concept I developed a few years ago called Energy Hours.
Brian:Yeah, you mentioned that to me a couple of weeks ago, maybe last week. I want to. I'm curious about that.
Frank:Well, the energy hours. This is my belief. I think you only have so many hours that you're engaged, you're focused and you're driven. A week, I don't think it's 40. I think it's 20 or less, some people it's five, some people it's 10. And what happens is they don't recognize it and they're not putting a model work week together to capitalize on it.
Frank:But you know, I think you can buy energy hours and you sell energy hours in my mindset. So, buying energy hours, if I want to buy energy hours eat healthy, work out, have a good family life, right, I mean? You get into a fight with your spouse. What's your productivity the next day? You eat three cheeseburgers for breakfast. How do you feel the rest of the day? You know what I mean and I think by being aware of your energy hours and honing in on being healthy and doing the stuff that you like, doing the stuff that you're good at you buy them you increase your energy hours. You want to get rid of energy hours. Meet with a client that you hate meeting with, right, I mean, don't work out, don't get a good night's sleep. Your next day is a hell of a lot less productive and I see people working for the sake of working. Like Chris, you got a good leadership team where you hire somebody, let them do their job, get the hell out of their way.
Frank:You know, and I had a lesson early in life. It was down in Rosenberg Oregon. I still laugh as some bitch he wanted to meet with down in Rosenberg Oregon. I still laugh as some bitch he wanted to meet with. I wanted to meet with him. So we finally. He's like all right, I'll meet with you. He's like I'll meet with you at 7.30. All right, I live two and a half hours away from you. This is a problem, but whatever, I got up at like 4.30, drove to his office, sat there. I get there at 7.15. He shows up at about 10 to 8. True story Brian Comes in, lets me in, doesn't really acknowledge me, so just points to a chair, goes in, opens his mail for 15 minutes.
Frank:Huge lesson for everybody on this one. I didn't plan on bringing this up, but whatever, I'm going to talk about it. So finally he puts his finger. He's like come on in, you know. He grabs a clean piece of paper, a pen, looks at me and this guy's making a million dollars a year. This was 30 some years ago. I mean, he's a big producer. He's like all right, you're in management, you're probably going to be able to tell me how to double my business and work less hours and provide better service. He's like so in the next 15 minutes, the floor is yours. I just want to learn from you, frank and he's obviously being facetious, right. I mean he's, he's been a saint. Yeah, I looked at him and I said Roger, let me ask you a question before I do that. He's like that's fine.
Frank:I says if I thought my dumb ass could make $2 million working 20, 30 hours a week, you think I would have got up at 4.30 and drove to your office to watch you open. Have you show up late, open mail. I'm like I can't do it. So he sort of relaxed. He's like all right, now that we got that straight, what's going on? What's going on? I'm like this is the deal. If you have an obstacle, I'll help you remove it. If you have an it you have staff turnover. I'll help you interview new staff. I movement. If you haven't yet, you have staff turnover. I hope you interview new staff. I hope you find new staff. I'll clear the path for you to let you do what you do best and that's meet with clients.
Frank:You know, and he challenged me, a week later his computer went down. This was, I mean, it's 30 years ago, it's a little more complicated. But I looked at my assistant. I said, hey, any chance you can drive to Rosenberg and drop a computer off. She's like, yeah for sure, like whatever. It was two, three-hour drive. The computer was sitting on his desk, fully set up. From there we had a really good relationship. But I think as a leader you've got to realize you know, part of your job is to remove roadblocks and clear the path and let your people run, let them do what they do best. You've got to have gutter rails in place, but don't stifle creativity.
Brian:Why do you think leaders do that? Frank Far too often Insecurity.
Frank:A new manager always wants to do it their way. They think their way is the best. And I mean we have a project Greenfield or something. A lot of years ago I killed the program. I killed new advisor development for a while because they every is the same process for everybody, every leader, every new advisor and it's not.
Frank:I mean, I think you got to take the strengths of your leaders and work around them and I used to tell managers at work for me, especially new ones. I'd be like let's be clear on something, your job is to get shit done, not do it. And I'd repeat it and I'd talk to them about it. I'm like I don't want you doing everything. I want you to be somewhat bored so you can go work on people development and hire good people and take the energy hours that you have and exploit them. And I think a lot of managers don't do that. They think they have to work 50, 60 hours a week. And I would argue, if you're working 50, 60 hours a week, you're burning energy hours and you're just checking boxes.
Brian:That's my opinion. I think it's based on science too. I really do, frank, because everything I've read in the last five years on neuroscience and productivity shows that the average brain only can work for about 60 to 90 minutes on anything that it needs a mental break, Just like when you work out a lot you play hockey, you lift and things like that. You get to a point where you can't lift weights eight hours a day. You can't play hockey, you're going to hurt yourself, you're going to tear ligaments and cartilage and our brains are the same way. And I think when we get down to, you know they say the best cycle for the average human is 90 minutes of focused work, 30 minutes off. 90 minutes of focused work, 30 minutes off. I find through my clients it's about 75 minutes and at that everything you do is a point of diminishing return. And when you're trying to, you know the whole energy hours things makes. I think it makes a shit ton of sense Because I know me if I have three hours to get something done. I think it makes a shit ton of sense because I know me if I, if I have three hours to get something done, I'll get it done. If I have eight hours to get it done. It's going to take me six hours to do it and I'm going to be tired as hell when I get it done. You know, and I think that you're I think you're exactly right we have to. We have to kind of stop putting so much on our plates and work on the things that produce what we are designed or hired to produce and leave the other stuff for the next person to produce. And I think you're right.
Brian:I think it's insecurity and I always tell people there are six reasons why we do stupid things, and they all happen to start with the letter I. It's either intent, it's indifference, it's ignorance, incompetency, insecurity or immaturity. And I think what we're talking about here when leaders don't let their people and they want to be involved in everything they don't want to just give them the resources they need and remove obstacles it's insecurity, but it's also incompetency. They don't know another way to do it. That's how they were taught and I think that's a generational thing that happens in a lot of companies. To me, you can look at a company run that way and say you're successful today, but if things don't change in 20 years, you're going to go the way of the buggy whip. You're going to be obsolete.
Brian:Because one of the things I think you and I learned Frank at a young age is, even though we worked a lot of hours when we were in early entry levels of leadership, leadership seemed sexy back then. Even though we work in a lot of hours, it seemed sexy, it seemed fun. We had good mentors, it was fun. The environment was kind of fun. I don't see that anymore.
Brian:When I see a leader working those hours like you said, 60 hours a week or so I always ask my clients are you making the next generation look at you and say that's what I want to do? Because nobody wants to sign up for a 60-hour work week. At least the pool of people to want to do that is very small, and especially in today's world where they want success quickly and they can jump from company to company and take their 401k with them, you got to make leadership look cool. And when you're working 60 hours a week and you're micromanaging and you're stressed all the time, dude, good luck finding a replacement, because there's not a lot of people who want to do that.
Frank:Yeah, I 100% agree with that. You know, when you tell somebody how to do it and you micromanage them and when they do it, all right, they did it. When you give somebody the flexibility and freedom to do something cool and they do it, my God, how much fun is that. You're high-fiving. Are you kidding me? Look at this. That, to me, is exciting, and when I was in leadership full-time, that was my thing. I loved high-fiving people, I loved celebrating it and I share this with people. I would acknowledge it.
Frank:But oftentimes I'd send something to the house and I'd put a letter in there. Like you know, scott or Bill, or whatever, you're doing such an awesome job and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your focus, your commitment and your results, whatever it is, and I'd go. Why did you send it to the house? Because I wanted their kids to see it and I wanted their wife to see it. You feel good when you get something, but when you get it at your house and your wife sees your kids and you know, when we do conferences, I always compliment people in front of their wives and whoever they're with. How fun is that? Wife's and whoever they're with how fun is that. And especially when they get the job done. I don't know, man. That's what always drove me in leadership is watching these people grow.
Brian:It's so much fun. Well, I think that's why you've had such an impact and you've been very financially and professionally successful. But your biggest success I've known this for years was knowing that you've made an impact on people. It never was through micromanagement, it was through empowerment, and I think that's the key word here that I don't see a lot of in leadership today. It's always been a buzzword in leadership journals and books and literature and even leadership conferences is the word empowerment, but as soon as somebody gets back to the office, that word is forgotten. Is empowering a person to do it, to create, to produce and to be the best version of themselves not to be you or do it exactly how you would do it, but do it with their style. And when you can do that, when you have that confidence as a leader and you give that confidence to your people, I mean they'll run through brick walls for you, and I think that's what you've done a really good job of over the years.
Brian:You know you look at, one of the things that I've seen a lot, frank, and I don't think you and I talked about this on the first episode we did was this research that's been going around for the past 10 years around our country that and I've seen different studies on this and they're all very empirical but they're all independent studies that shows roughly 26% of all American workers I think it's actually in developed countries, but at least in the U S for sure are fully engaged in their jobs. You know producers they're creative, they're, they're fun, they're positive, they want to get better, they're thinking out of the box. Then you have 55% are disengengaged and those are your really good quality people but they're kind of stuck in a rut. They want to be engaged, they want to be creative and be empowered and they want all this stuff but they don't know how to get there. But they're good people. Then you have 19% who are called actively disengaged, meaning they are kind of more of your toxic people Like you don't really. You know you really can't spend a lot of time with them because there's a very, very, very, very minute chance that you're going to convert. Turn those people around.
Brian:But what I see a lot of times, frank, in coaching is that leaders want to spend a lot of time either with their 26 person who are engaged, because they're fun and you want to be around them because they're on your resume, man, it makes you look good. Or you want to go down to the 19% and try to save them, but where I think the focus has to be is on that 55%. I think the top 26% hey, what resources do you need and what obstacles can I remove? But then you've got the 55% who are just like they're stuck, they're at a deer in headlights, they don't know how to take that next step. What would you say to a leader who's working with those people who they want to maintain, they want to keep them away from the bottom 19% who are kind of like sharks in muddy water. They're parasitic, and that they want to take a group of those and they want to, you know, get them to be that engaged person. How would you lead those people?
Frank:You know, and I think you know this, a lot of my career was going to troubled organizations and turning it around right I mean and I was good at it Partly is I would give them the chance but I would cut the cancer out. Yeah, I mean, if they're cancer I'm not keeping them, they're fire, and that's a cold thing to say. But when I let somebody go, I mean I've had a lot of people go through my career but I usually try to find them a better home Working with another advisor working in a team
Frank:or working in another company, because when I let somebody go, I want them to say thank you, frank, I'm going to miss you, I appreciate you. And you let somebody go and they become an enemy. You're just going to get a knife in your back at a time Plus. What the hell, man? It's about helping people and if it's not the right role that they're in, help them find the right role right. You know, take the time and energy, and I mean my wrestling coach taught me a huge lesson. Maybe we can visit, but regarding that.
Frank:But back to that point, I think everything in life and merrily adams, who, um, is a friend of mine, she wrote choose your questions, choose your thoughts, um, and in fantastic book, but she talks about effective questioning, and I think everything in life is like a jigsaw puzzle. So a three piece jigsaw puzzle is I'm buying you widget a for 10 bucks a piece. I can buy the same thing, the same service, the same everything for $8. Well, that's, it's an easy thing to see, right? You just look at it and be like that's easy, but I think when you're dealing with people, it's a jigsaw puzzle. So you can see 20 pieces of a 500-piece puzzle. You don't know what the picture really looks like. The only way to get a view of what that picture or what that person is and get them up in the morning and get them focused is to ask really good questions and start collecting pieces of that puzzle.
Frank:What's going on at the house, tell me, you know, what do you do for hobbies? What's going on at the office, what's here? And just continually asking good questions. Because if I get a really clear picture of what that person is and what motivates and what they like, what they don't like person is and what motivates and what they like, what they don't like, I now can help either design a training program or a mentorship program or redefine their job slightly to take advantage of what they're really good at. You know, strategic coaches does a great job of.
Frank:That is what's your unique ability, right, and I think that's too many managers just want to talk and I, you know too many managers just want to talk and I used to visit my managers in the states. They ran and I'd fly in and spend a couple days with them and I'd give them feedback at the end. I'd give them feedback at every meeting and a lot of times the feedback would be. You want the real feedback, give it to me, frank. And people knew. You never had to wonder what I was thinking, can I tell you? And I didn't hold grudges, I didn't stay mad, it was let's just talk about it.
Frank:I'm like if you just shut the hell up and ask more questions, your job would be a lot easier. Your people want to give you the answer. They want to tell you how to lead them better. You just don't give them the opportunity to do it or you critique how they do it. Who gives a shit how they talk to you If you're asking for feedback and it doesn't seem respectful, or you know there's lines, obviously, but it didn't come out right who cares? Listen to them, and if you can solve that problem and help pave that way, I don't think you're going to get the whole chunk of people, but you're certainly getting a lot of them moving in the right direction.
Brian:Well, I think it's. I had a guy, a gentleman, on the podcast last week, ray Phillips, and he wrote he's written a couple of books, one of them on leadership, called Finding Joy in Leadership, and he talked he talked on the on the show about mutual accountability between leaders and employees and I really liked that concept. You know where you there's a mutual accountability. It's not just you are not just accountable to me, but I'm accountable to you as well, and part of that is listening and getting to know that person from a third dimension is getting to ask questions and listening to them, as you said. And but you think about it, frank, we all the time we spent in grade school, you know learning how to talk, learning how to. You know all these you know. You know we never learned how to listen, nobody ever. There was never a class on listening, which is the most effective, most important of all the communication skills, but there's never a class on listening. I never took.
Frank:No, no. And you think about how important that is. I mean, I mean in the financial world, now that you know, and now I have a small client base. I work with very high net worth clients managing their money and I love it. But you know, when I talk to him like what's important? Why is it important? What else do you want to do? What you know. You've got all this money. What are we trying to accomplish? What are we doing with charities? What are we doing upon death? I mean, and the and the better. I know the client now I can invest it accordingly and I can put a game plan in place and help them be better, help them impact their community. So a lot of these people, they have more money than they'll ever spend, but what are they going to do with it? And nobody ever listens. They're like, all right, I'll invest it and move on. Take the time. I could go on and on on that one. I just think people need to ask better questions.
Brian:Well, when I work with my clients on this concept, I have called the cameras on exercise. How would you behave if the cameras were on you full time? It's 24-7, like a reality TV show. And I go on to discuss the seven ways that we, as humans, form an opinion on others, and one of them is the questions we ask them. And I always say there are three levels of questions. The first one is how was your weekend, you know? Second one might be you know, how was your mom, how'd your son do in the lacrosse game? You know, I heard your mom fell and broke her hip. How's she doing? That's a second level question, it's a more personal. But then if you can get someone to, if you can get down and really ask them a question that really makes them walk away, going shit, nobody's ever asked me that question before. That's a third tier level question and that's where you really get into getting a person to walk away. And I don't know if it was you that asked me this question, but whenever I tell people I was asked a question one time and I always think of you. So I don't know if it was you or not, but it's because you've asked so many good questions. It was the question of if we could eliminate all of your fear for the next seven days, what would you do differently this week? I use that as an example of a question. You can ask a person to get to know them a little bit and cold more into their soul. I don't know if that was a question you asked me, but I always picture you as asking that question when I share this advice with my clients, and that is because of the questions you have asked. And sometimes the questions you've asked me have been annoying as shit. But they make me think and that's why today, when I needed advice on something, I called you before we aired today. So I think that is definitely a missed opportunity and I do think a lot of it in today's work society or work environment is.
Brian:I think a lot of leaders are afraid of getting to know their people because of the attrition rate in organizations. They're afraid people. Hey, we only keep our employees for three years, five years, so I don't really need to spend time getting to know them. Well, in reality, hey, do you ever think of why you're only keeping people for three to five years? And I don't think they make that connection of. So that might be a major reason why? Because I think it's a study show that. The study show that if you have a best friend at work or somebody who truly cares about you, you are seven times likely to be in that engaged group of people that we mentioned earlier. And if you don't have a really good person at work that you can confide in, who knows you well, you only have a 1 in 12 chance of ever becoming engaged in your job.
Brian:So it's not just the leaders who have to do this, it's we have to do this. Employees have to do this with each other ask questions, get to know them, you know, become friends, so to speak. But I think leaders have to set that example of you know, getting to know the people that work for them. You know, prying into them a little bit. What makes them tick, not just at work but at home. Not just at work, but at home what do people want to talk about? Is it family, occupation, recreation and motivation? If you can talk about those four things with people, they'll talk all night long and just formulate questions.
Brian:One of the things that I've found in the last couple of years of talking about questioning and I'm not really good at coaching. Questioning I'm not, that's not my specialty but when I do coach it I always pull up and tell my clients you can click on Google right now and ask what are the 20 most powerful questions? I can ask a friend or co-teammate or an employee or a boss or whatever, and you're going to come up with an infinite number of questions that you can ask people, because sometimes we don't know what to ask. We grew up with how was your weekend? How was your mom? How did your son do on the lacrosse game? That's what we kind of grew up with. So it does take some training, or at least it takes time and it takes developing a habit, to really become a good questioner. But I read Mary Lee Adams' book. You recommended that book a few years ago to me and I read it. Actually I have it in my storage with all my books right now, so I remember that book really well.
Frank:I think there's the two pieces attached. That would be. You know, I always did one-on-ones with my direct reports and that started with what's going well. Second was what challenges you're having. They'd fill it out beforehand so it wasn't just a conversation. They'd fill out a form, one page or email, and we'd go through stuff. But I want to spend time with it and I would give them as much time as they needed.
Frank:I think too often times you know they have a 15-minute phone call Like what are you accomplishing with 15 minutes with somebody? It's like a permission call, shut up, spend some time. But then I'd flip it to the other two, sort of folks listening. I remember in Kansas City city my dad had a. You know you, I hate to say we're waiting, potentially I'm passing away, right. So it's really tearing me up. And normally I would always have my door open and I had a bucket of candy on my desk because I wanted people to come in and grab it and talk to me. So I, I, so it was when I I wanted people to come in, but during that time I'd shut my door and I remember realizing people are probably wondering what's going on.
Frank:So in the next class I shared with the group. I'm like this is the deal. If you see me in my office with my door shut, I've got some personal shit going on with my dad right now. I mean it's causing me grief and I don't want you to think it's you, it's just I'm fighting through some stuff right now with this hell. So I'm going to come in, I'm going to do my work, I'm going to leave a little early and I'm going to be less friendly and I apologize to you for that, but I'm coping with it. And you know what, if you work for me, worked for me Now you don't have to. Why is Frank quiet? Why he seems like he's pissed at me? No, he's just had some personal shit going on in his life that he has to get through and they want to help you because of that. But how many times does the boss not share that with somebody? And now they have to wonder like what's wrong with this guy?
Brian:Well, it makes sense now. Well, and I think it's, you know, I do think it's harder for men to to share that too, I find, you know I'm. One of the things that I focus on, frank, in the last couple of years with my clients is vulnerability as a leader, and I don't mean vulnerability where you're coming in and you know you're whining about the weekend. That's not vulnerability, that's weakness, but it's yeah. So what you did when your father was going through that is just sharing with them, being a little personal, being a little vulnerable and, when you can as a leader, especially in today's society, when you can do that, they see you as a person who sits on the same side of the table as them, not someone who sits across a bigger desk from them, and you are you're human too just a little more advanced in your career than they are, with a little more responsibility, and I think that's one of the most powerful things that we can do. I had a gentleman on a couple of months ago named Josh Pasheer who runs Uncaged Brotherhood, an organization that brings men together, very successful men who can just be very vulnerable and talk about what they're going through in life and talk about the challenges they face and the opportunity they face, and it's a fairly new operation, but I think he's going to do fantastic things.
Brian:That's just a key word and when I'm coaching people, when I put that word out vulnerability, you know, to an executive or to somebody in a leadership role with influence, oh my gosh, it's like somebody turned the lights off on them. They just get scared and they panic. And because the word vulnerability has been bastardized and misused so long that they just they don't want to, they don't want to do that, they think it's it's going to show weakness and, in my opinion, vulnerability is one of the core elements of a super strong person, especially a strong leader is being able to open up a little bit. You know, not put your problems on their plate, but, you know, share the problems you're facing and that that, especially if it affects them. So, um, yeah, sure, vulnerability, I, I, I believe you've lost your wrestling coach, um, not so long ago. Um, am I right on that?
Frank:You're right, as um, rudy Thompson, um, a couple of of huge lessons that I had from him. He was, you know we can all make excuses in life. You know of what happened when we were a kid, but when I was a kid man, I was taking the wrong path and I can tell you I had a brother who died when he was 11. I can tell you we lived paycheck to paycheck. I can tell you my dad fought alcoholism. But the reality is everybody has stuff like that. They go through right.
Frank:And Rudy was a guy, that man. He saw the good in people and uh, in fact, when I got promoted in Kansas city I'm going to share with the lesson or two I've received from Rudy I took this promotion and, uh, I spent a lot of time on this letter. I wrote him a letter to make sure I don't get choked up and it was thanking him for who he was, thanking him for the impact that he had on my life, and I used the theme of thanks for being in my corner. I wouldn't be where I was where I am if it wasn't for you. And I say in the note I said last year I made I don't know what, it was close to a million bucks, whatever it was, I was like. But forget about the money, rudy, and this was in the letter. I coach my kids sports full time. I'm the president of the children's diabetes association and his kid had diabetes as a child. So there was a connection there and a reason I said I feel good about being a dad, I feel good about being a husband. I've got this going on and I shared with that. Then I sent him a letter and signed I think it was Muhammad Ali Boxing Glove. He gets it.
Frank:And this guy's a wrestling coach. He's a big guy. He's a stupid crazy smart guy, a Cornell graduate, right. He called me in tears, crying. He's like that's so nice of you. I'm like it's true, rudy, I apologize, it took me so long to tell you that and I think too often times in life when you hit a level of success, we don't say thank you. So, for everybody who's listening to this, get a paper and pencil out and write two or three thank you notes and send them to somebody. You just you make their week, their life or their day, whatever.
Frank:But he was a school teacher and to me, a school teacher, if you care, is one of the most underpaid, underappreciated jobs there is. If you care, right, if classes are too big, you're not paying enough money. If you don't care, I think maybe it's an easy job, right? You don't give a shit, you just show up and do your thing and go home. But he was a guy that cared, and when I was a freshman, sophomore, whatever it was, I'm going to give their names because I'm going to pay a lot of respect to them.
Frank:Coach Roberts was my gym teacher. Him and I went fist fight. Basically, we didn't fist fight, we almost got there, right, he's going to fail me, which makes me ineligible to wrestle. Rudy came to me. He's like you fool, that's what he used to say. You fool, what are you fighting with Mr Roberts for? He's going to fail you and I can be able to wrestle. And he went through it. And I look inward. I was mad at him at the time, mr Roberts.
Frank:But Mr Roberts is an amazing coach. He coached cross country, he was a gym coach, just a really good human. And here I'm picking a fight with him and Rudy taught me a lesson and I've expanded on it over and over through the years is why don't you fight with somebody? What's your upside? Be friends with them. What are you doing? And how many times in life do we pick a fight that we don't need to pick?
Frank:You know and Rudy was the guy that if he looked at you, he saw the good. He was a minister on the side as well. He saw the good and he exploited the good and he helped you identify the good and he's changed my life, man. He changed my life to sort of take a different path, but he also changed my life to see the good in people and to be a good Christian, to care about people, to make a difference. And you know what's that worth, brian? I mean that lesson by itself. If all you did was see the good in people and I think Stephen Covey has a picture of that old lady, young lady type thing right which one do you see? Well, you see what you want to see.
Brian:Yeah, and I think when you look at your role and you've done this really well and what I define leadership, when I coach leaders and the first thing I say is what's your definition of leadership? And they give me some textbook answer and I say, no, it's real simple. It's to increase the sense of self-worth of the people who report to you. That's leadership. And how do you do that? Now that's the million-dollar question. But I think, like Rudy would say, probably the first step in that is seeing the good in them first, because you really can't help somebody if you're not vested in them. And how do you be invested in somebody that you don't see the good in? I mean, I think that's one of the most valuable lessons I'll take out of today is and I wonder how often I do that I wonder if I'm seeing the good people around me. I try to stay positive, but is that enough?
Frank:I mean, that's a new lesson. It is, and he changed my life. He ended up working for my real estate company for a while. When he retired, he wanted to make a few more bucks and negotiated a new truck in Michigan and I never.
Frank:And whatever. And his wife is amazing man. I mean she just his kids. I mean he's just got a beautiful family inside and out, but I never checked the checkbook, I never questioned him on the money. He just did what he wanted to do and ran the real estate company and it was really a win-win relationship. But the other learning.
Frank:Brian came after he passed away. I used to teach classes. What are people going to say about you when you're gone? Who's going to show up? What impact did you make in this life?
Frank:Sometimes I'd say to people that were working so many hours and not paying attention to their family or doing whatever, I think I say, boy, this guy really was successful. He worked 60 hours a week until he was 72 years old. Sure, he missed some baseball games for his kids. Sure, he didn't see the grandkids that often. He never traveled with his wife, but, boy, he was really successful at work. How stupid is that? Oh, it's about everything else. He was really successful at work. How stupid is that? Oh, it's about everything else you know.
Frank:At his funeral it's crazy. I mean two funerals I've been to that have been impactful my uncle's, who was a priest, and to watch the Catholic Church come in and celebrate that and the parishioners. It was mind-boggling. I bet Mind-boggling. But at Rudy's funeral, oh my God, there's 400 or 500 people there in a small town, people talking about.
Frank:He changed my life, he was inspirational. He did this, he did that. His kids got up and spoke and talked about how are they going to fill his big shoes and they were happy for him because they're Christians and he's going to a better place and he's no pain. He's just doing what he does best and be Rudy. But you could see the pain in watching him leave and Sarah flew in, my whole family's there crazy. But I thought to myself as I'm sitting there Brian, I can do better. I mean, if I passed away, I haven't had this impact and I think it's going to change and it has who I am and what I'm willing to do to help people and maybe see the good and exploit the good and make a difference. And you know how lucky am I to have that guy in my life.
Brian:You can't put a value on that. You really can't. The question is now for all of us out there. As you're talking, I'm starting to get emotional and I'm thinking of the same thing. I focus a lot on my work and I love what I do and obviously I'm close to my. Actually, my daughter sells right now because she's flying. She's in Virginia right now on business. So I'm up here getting my grandson off to school every morning, up to his four-year-old school that he goes to. So I think I do a lot of those things that you would say are really worthy.
Brian:But the question that I thought of when you were talking about Rudy's impact is how engaged am I when I'm doing those things? It's not just checking off a box to do things for your kids or grandkids or community or church. It's also are you engaged in doing it? Are you there? Are you present when you're doing it? And I would think a man like Rudy if you I'm sure you can attest to this, frank, when he was with you he was engaged in you, like he was present with the conversation, with your life with you, know the questions he asked you and the lessons he taught you fully present, and I think that's the difference for a lot of true impactful people is their level of engagement and their presence.
Frank:Yeah, I agree. I mean, when I was with Rudy and I need to do a better job of this I felt like I was his one friend, his best friend, right, and I think about how many people thought the same thing because he was fully engaged in you, his wife Diana too. I mean, they both were so engaged and caring and I'll tell you this will blow your mind a little bit we always prayed when we went out to eat, right? But if the waitress was there, we'd be holding hands and you'd look at her and say what's your name, is there anything going on in your life that you'd like us to pray for you about? And we would say a prayer for that person. And it's small, but does that not define somebody who cares in life and wants to make a difference?
Brian:Yeah, I mean you look at him and that guy's, his legacy will live on for generations. The name may be forgotten at some point down the road, but his legacy lives on. And a lot of people whose names are very well known it may be well known for decades to come or generations to come, but they're really the lessons they've given us are gone. They just know the name you know, and I think that's such a big difference. I don't care if my name is remembered, but the lessons we've lived and I think that's what Rudy did, let's call it. In 100 years, probably Rudy won't be a name anybody's going to be talking about, but yet the lessons will live on through you, through your children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren and the people you've impacted in your life.
Brian:To me, that's what success is. It really is. It's hard to tell somebody who's young that that is the definition of success and I think maybe that comes later, in your 40s and 50s and 60s. But that is really the true definition of success. When you break it all down, that's what it is. Like you said earlier, it's not. He worked 70 hours a week until he was 72 and made all this money and built this empire. It's that. That's not it. It's just truly not. That's not it, it's just truly not. And you know, I thank God for people like Rudy in your life, because you've definitely taken Rudy's lessons, frank, and have lived them, and that's why the feedback I get from you constantly is all positive, not just the professional, but the personal aspect as well. I appreciate that You're Rudy too, rudy 2.0.
Frank:I aspire, rudy, in progress, but you know. Back to the energy hours. I asked one of the people I coach and I only coach five people right Every other Monday I spend coaching good friends. They've become good friends and I'm making a difference, so I love doing it. But we were talking about energy hours Like how many energy hours have you given your family?
Frank:I get you have them at work, but do you have any left when you come home at night for the weekend? And how many leaders give everything they have at the office and come home and don't do the same thing at the house? Like, why do you work? I mean, I'm going to ask for saying this, but the last three or four years I did my job. I wasn't loving it, it was a different job and I was doing it for the money.
Frank:Yeah, I was doing it because I knew if I held on for a few years I'd have enough dough to never work again and that was inspiring to me. But I always worked to take care of my family, to go do the things in life that I want to do and to give my family the options. My kid will come out of law school no debt. My other kid will be a veterinarian. No debt Not that that is huge, but that's gratifying. That's what I want to do with my money. I don't need to go buy a 10,000 square foot house on the water. That's not my style, you know that.
Brian:It goes back to the old adage, and I think this is Ayn Rand's statement you don't live to work, you work to live. You work to improve your life and the life of others, but you don't live to work and those people who do that typically don't have a really good life to work for anyway. Down the road and I do think, frank, when you do that lifestyle and I don't know if this is anecdotal, but I've seen people who put everything they have into the work for decades, their personal life suffers. Their health, their family relationships across the board, those crumble. And in the last couple of decades of their work, now it starts to crumble as well.
Brian:Because I think you need that foundation. I think you need that foundation. You may still be as successful at work, but you will never be as successful as you could be if you took care of your family, you took care of your physical health, your spiritual health, your mental health, and you had good, solid friends and relationships around you. To me, that's the foundation for me. Anyway. If it wasn't for my mom, my kids, my grandkids, my friends, jackie, people like you in my life, I know I would not have the motivation to do what I do you know, there's no foundation left anymore.
Brian:I think when I was younger it was different. You know, really I had my mom and I had my daughter, who I, you know, aspired to impact and make their lives better. But now you have more people who love you and trust you and respect you and appreciate you, and you feel the same way back to them. To me, that's a motivation for me to get better at my work, to take care of myself better physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally. But some people just don't have that anymore because they've spent so much time focusing only on their professional life and I think that's a sad. I think it's a sad event and I just see it far too often.
Frank:It is, and you know I'm a huge believer in a model work week is staying consistent, but it's. You know, I've had people in the past that have them write down, especially when I was with Ameriprise as a leader. I would say you know, write down what's most important to you. You know you've got work, family, you know religion, your kids, health, you know whatever it is four, five, six things. And I said, all right, next thing, give yourself a letter grade in each. How do you think you're doing versus how you want to do?
Frank:And then we talk about it and you know the simple thing is what are the two or three things that you need to do in the stuff that you're not getting the grade that you want? What are the two or three things you can do, add to your model work week to make a difference. You know Doug Lennox used to say have a date night. You know, put a date night in there, guarantee it. Simple things. But I think people get so worked up, they're working so many hours, they're so focused on one thing that they don't lift up their head and look around what's really going on, right?
Brian:now? Well, I think Stephen Covey said it best. You climb the ladder of success and at some point you realize it was leaning against the wrong wall the entire time. That's a common element. Frank, before we wrap up, can you please explain to the audience what you mean by model week? Some people might wonder what you mean by that.
Frank:So, as I think about a model work week, I like consistency, right, it is Monday through Friday and I used to use the example of I would have green, yellow, red and I would use. You know, my dad, before we bought the restaurant, worked for AMC and he would get overtime. So green is normal hours. These are the 35 hours that I'm going to work a week. Yellow is overtime, which is double pay, right, that might be five or 10 hours and then there is triple time in there. You know he always worked Christmas when he was at AMC. Why? Because he's made a fortune doing it. You know, if he missed Christmas, half of Christmas he'd be able to spend more time with us or buy more gifts or whatever it was. I don't know. Pay the bills, probably. But inside of my model work week I'm like I'm going to work eight to five, let's say, example, monday through Friday, and I never did that, but let's say we did.
Frank:I did it early on, but not later in my career I didn't like working that much. But eight to five, where am I going to work out four or five times a week? Where does that fit into my model work week? I put that in there. You know, if I have a date night, what do I put there? If I'm going to have one-on-ones with my people, where do I put those in? And I fill the model work week up.
Frank:And, generally speaking, on Fridays, to keep it simple, I'd put busy work at the end of the day book work or stuff that I could do, that I didn't need to be in the office for Face-to-face meetings. I would never put on a Friday afternoon because I wanted to cook out early and I'd pull stuff forward. I always pulled stuff off Friday if I had free time during the week so I could cook out early. That consistency, I think, creates out early. But that consistency I think creates a discipline.
Frank:You know and I just talked to my son about this the other day he does one-on-one with a couple people who work for him. I'm like I'm going to go from the car. I'm like we've talked about this Never do a one-on-one when somebody works for you from the car, as disrespectful as you can be, sit your ass behind a desk and listen to them. It could be a phone call, but listen to them and give them 100% of your attention In the car. That's an insult. Never do that. But that would be in my model work week. That has to happen right. If they work for me, I owe it to them to give them the time and energy to help develop them or answer their questions or coach them or whatever. It is time and energy to help develop them or answer their questions or coach them or whatever. It is A huge believer in a model work week, huge believer.
Brian:Well, I know I used to do the model work week back in the day. I remember I didn't have colors but I had. From this time I'm doing this and focus and it works so well. You know, it's like one of those things where nothing fails, like success. It works so well for me. I forgot I stopped doing it, but I do a point system. It's very similar now that I spend so much time on these certain activities every week and I give myself points for it and that makes me focus on the things that you know are good for my clients and my practice and creating more wealth for others and myself.
Brian:But I find what you said earlier about the consistency and I think that's the thing that most people don't realize is the importance of consistency. And my sister told me a few years ago and she was making fun of me about you're so rigid with certain things that you do, and she said well, I kind of like to. I like to. She was wanting to be more spontaneous. Because I get up at 4.30 every morning. My morning looks the same.
Brian:My daughter came down this morning at 4.35 because she had to fly out at like 6.30. So I'm at her house and obviously I'm in the living room. She walks in at 5.35. I'm doing planks in her living room floor and she just started laughing at me. It's a good morning and I'm sitting in a plank position and I know people think it's funny and it's kind of odd and quirky but that first two hours of my day is so rigidly consistent.
Brian:I do the exact same thing and that sets up the consistency for the rest of the day. And the caveat to that, according back to my sister's comment, is because I do that, I have a lot more flexibility on the other times of the week that because the foundation has been met, I've poured the foundation and so the rest of the day, like on Saturdays and Sundays, I have a lot of I'm done at noon Shit. I'm done by 1030 on Fridays if I want to be with coaching, and Mondays I don't see clients. So that consistency of pouring the foundation during the work week or during the week or whatever time of day, whatever it is, that gives so much more flexibility down the road. The rest of the day, the evening, the afternoons, vacations, whatever it is, but you got to pour that foundation first.
Frank:You got to remain really disciplined with that consistency.
Frank:That's my thing yeah 100% and I would color code it because if I'm going to work late, it needs to be important, right? If I'm going to work on a Sunday for something, and I'll take it, because I mean, if a client calls me on a Sunday, most likely somebody died, right? They're calling me for a reason. I'm going to take that call, but I want to be respectful of my time. It's not about working 50, 60 hours a week, it's about getting the job done, and I'll have people tell me I don't have time to work out. You don't have 20 minutes a day to work out, 30 minutes a day. You can't find 30 minutes. We've got a whole different set of issues and that's really the issue, right. 30 minutes, no, because you're not focused at the office and getting stuff done.
Brian:And then you get done and you're not focused at the office. You get done, you're more tired, you're more stressed. Therefore your body doesn't have the energy. Therefore your willpower wanes because you don't have your. You're exhausted. But when you get good stuff, good quality work done at the office, you typically have more physical and emotional energy. When you're done with the day, it's you know. It's just how it works.
Brian:You go to a busy restaurant. Those people are energized. They get off work. They could go work out. You go to a dead restaurant where there's one or two people in the restaurant and the wait the servers are walking around, standing around waiting for you to finish your dessert so you can clear your plate or clear your table. Those people don't have any energy by the end of the day. They're tired and I that's.
Brian:That's my thoughts on that, and one of the things that I think that people need to grasp more is their morning routines. That's one thing. I'm a dead set. I swear by the mornings. I think the way you set your mornings up is the most important thing you can do during the day, because you're not going to do stupid shit in the morning, you're probably not going to drink, you're not going to get up and watch TV, probably, and lay around eating Cheetos. Your mornings are a time when you have energy and take advantage of that first hour, that first two hours, whatever it is, and do what develops yourself for the rest of the day. Then you go to work and you come home and you've got shit done. You've got your workout done, your reading done, you've got your prayer done, you've got your meditation, whatever you want to do to set yourself up.
Brian:I wish more people would do those things and I've got a lot of my clients doing them. But the one thing they won't do is take a nice cold shower every day. That's the one thing I can't get anybody to do. I got a couple people to do it for like 30 seconds, cause that's the I don't do. I don't show her first thing in the morning, but it's one of my things I do and I I never turn the water on on a warm. It's cold, other than Sundays or Saturdays. I take a warm, a normal shower, but Sunday through Friday it's cold, ice cold shower, and but that to me I hate it, but it's something that I do. That says it's a tone, it's a kind of a trigger for me to say, okay, now I can go start my professional day. You brought up something earlier. I just want to jump on real quick before we wrap up. Frank, you said one of the things that people say is I don't have the half an hour to work out.
Brian:Another thing that bothers me is I tell people they ask me what's one of the keys to success, and I always tell them read books. I don't care what you read, read books. Don't read stuff on the internet all the time. That's okay too, but pick up a book and read it. A biography of self-help develop. You know psychology. Read a good fictional novel, hell. Read romance, I don't care. Read something, get your mind involved somehow. And they always say I don't have time to read. What do you think? The people who read are like the least successful people in the world, so they have all this time of the day. No, the most successful people I know read a lot. You're a good example of that. You've always been a reader.
Frank:Yeah, 100. I mean, I'm very well read because I needed to right. Early in your career you read to learn. You just read stuff to explore. I think later in your life you read stuff to solve problems, right yeah Right, and you're trying to identify. But you know, you and Byron talked about personal growth plus cash equals compensation. It was my favorite. I talk about that so often with people If you're not growing, you're dying. I mean Ray Kroc, I think Ray Kroc wrote a book on that early in my career and I I pasted that someplace. Um, you know, if you're not growing, you're dying and it's are you bringing new ideas and I? But I also think reading the same book like stephen covey's book, I don't know, that's a hard book to read, I think the lessons are invaluable.
Frank:Yeah, I think it's a boring book. Personally speaking, I like the stories. How many times have you read it. I bet a dozen. Yeah, I'm about probably seven weeks.
Frank:I used to teach classes on that book. We'd have a seven-week class. We had seven weeks on each habit, right, yeah, but you and I hired in underneath the leader. We did. He forced us to read books, remember? He'd be at a management meeting and be like all right, take out a pencil and paper. Yeah, name the characters, name this, name this. You better get a writer. You're going to get sent home. I mean, when you think about that, he forced us to grow personally and to engage and that made a huge difference in, I think, a lot of people's careers. There's no new idea. You're not going to make anything up. Somebody's already solved that problem that we're dealing with.
Frank:I used to say take their stick and beat them with it. I'd go to a conference and I'd listen to the leaders talk and I'd always look at the numbers. And if the numbers were horrible and they're speaking, I and I always look at the numbers, and if the numbers were horrible and they're speaking, I would put my earmuffs on. I'd look at my manager like, yeah, don't take notes, bad idea. But if they were good, I'd take your idea, execute it exactly the way they said. And I'd say I'm going to take that stick and I'm going to beat you with it, which means I'm going to take your idea, I'm just going to execute it better. What do I need to come up with a new idea for?
Brian:right, it's out there already. Well, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago and it was funny when you sent sam my way whatever that was two weeks ago to talk to him a little bit and he had said yeah, frank walked in and put a book on the you guys were having lunch, I think it was. He put a book on the table and said read this, the e-myth revisited by michael gerber. I said it's so ironic that that happened, because I remember and I know we talked about this before Frank, but I'll tell the audience when we were in Monterey, california, at that leadership conference and you and I what I remember, you had rented a Chrysler LeBaron convertible.
Frank:I don't know if that's what it was, I think you're right, I think you're right, I think, you're right, I think you're right. It was definitely a convertible. The LeBaron at the time would have fit.
Brian:Yeah, and I think it was. And you and I, willie, went up in the Big Sur Mountains and there was an old bookstore like a used bookstore. We walked in, I bought a couple books. One of them was the E this was what 30 years ago, 31 years ago, and I bought the E-Myth Revisited when I got home, didn't read it for, probably touch it for three or four years.
Brian:And then I started coaching and I was coaching some people in an architect in Ann Arbor who was struggling, struggling and going through divorce. He ran his practice out of his, out of his house and I'm. He was my very first client and when I left the American express and started doing this, he was the first guy I called, got him as a client and I coached him for 12 years maybe. Came to my wedding, gave me his convertible BMW Z3 for my wedding gift to take it for a month and drive it around the state of Michigan. That was my wedding gift. He became a good friend of mine and while I was coaching him I realized some problems he had and I thought, yeah, I'm going to pull this book out, the E-Myth and I pulled it out. I read it. I'm like holy shit, this is good material and I coached him on that material for two years, went through the book and it transformed his life to the point when he finally retired. He know a lot of it had to do with you getting my head on straight, brian, but he also landed some really big houses in the Ann Arbor area. I mean massive homes that he built and designed.
Brian:But the point was, is that one book that we stopped and found at a really weird used bookstore in the big Sur Mountains of California? That book, once I read it transformed the way I thought about business and it transformed my clients. Book once I read it transformed the way I thought about business and it transformed my clients. Had I never read that? You know it was a big impetus to me growing more, working with smaller businesses. You know, and I think that if you take, if you miss the opportunity to read a good book I mean you don't even know the it's a you don't know what opportunity you've lost by not reading that book. And there's something in every single book there's something you can gain. I don't care what book. I'm reading the fifth book of Harry Potter right now and I'm learning stuff in that book. I bring my pen to my highlighter when I read that book and I get stuff out of that that I think I can use in life or that I relate to.
Frank:It is because when you read a book, you've got a specific situation. You're living in that day, right, and you're applying what your current situation is to the book. And I think a lot of these books you could read today and get one thing. Read a year later and get something completely different, because you're dealing with a different issue, a different concern or a different opportunity and you're using that to help you think through a problem.
Brian:I think Hans said one time every fifth book, reread a book you've already read. I haven't done that that way, but I do reread a lot of books. I mean Habits. Seven Habits I think I've read. I always say I read it every other year or every year. I really haven't, I guess, when I think about it, I have probably read it eight times. I would say Maybe ten, I don't know. Simple Genius I've read a bunch of times. Atlas Shrugged, I think I've read six times. Fountainhead, five or six times. Leadership, secrets of Attila the Hun I've read, I don't know, 15, 20 times. There's books that I just All great books, All great books.
Frank:They're all good books. Ali Shrug is a bear to get through the speech. Don John Galt's speech at the end. Oh my, it's like a book in itself.
Brian:It is. Well, I have to be honest, I've only read the book once. I've listened to the audible version, which I think is 36 hours long. I've listened to that four, five, six times, you know, just driving. I just started the Fountainhead the other day. Again, I'm reading but I don't do a lot of audible books, but I do always have one going that when I'm showering or working out I'll have it, or driving I'll have it on, but that's not my sole source. But I thought I love the Fountainhead more than I like Atlas Shrugged. To be honest with you, I think it's a better book. I relate to the character Howard work more than You're right. Build it your way or tear it down. Tear it down, man. That's exactly what it is. I love that concept man. He gave me the blueprints. If you don't build the building my way, I'm going to tear it down. Kind of an asshole way to live life. But there's a lot of truth to it as well.
Frank:That was a great book. I think the movie was okay, but the book was much better.
Brian:Which is true most of the time. Gregory Peck who is it Not Gregory Peck? Gary Cooper, that old yeah, I think it was. Have you seen the new Atlas Shrugged, that little miniseries that came out a few years ago?
Frank:I saw the first. Was there two of them right? I saw the first one and it wasn't that good. No, but the miniseries is better.
Brian:I didn't see that. I thought it was a two-part series, but I think they had the rights to the movie and if they didn't make it they were going to lose the rights.
Brian:So they threw a bunch of shitty actors and actresses in there and they just made it. It was okay, but it was kind of cliche. I thought it was kind of I don't know, it was kind of corny, but it was still okay. Well, brother, another hour and 15 minutes of throwing wisdom out there. You probably have another 10 hours we could go, I'm sure. But I know you're a busy man. You got being fully retired now, or at least 99% retired. What do you do today? Do you go to early dinner at like 4 o'clock?
Frank:You know I've been up I work out. I told you I have a couple cups of coffee. I read the newspaper. I've been up, I worked out. I told you I have a couple cups of coffee. I read the newspaper. I go work out. I cleaned the pool, I cleaned off the decks my wife's at our house in Florida, so I'm home by myself. The baby's here. The vet she's doing an intern right now. She's gone all day and I'm going to go to my in-laws and check on them this afternoon they're an hour and a half away and just make sure everything's going good with them. I love it. I'll call a couple people on my way there. Life is good.
Brian:It is, brother. Well, you definitely have earned it and you deserve it. Man, You're worthy of the life you're living because you've changed a lot of lives, including mine. I appreciate you, brother. Likewise I appreciate it. I don't say that I wouldn't say this to you often, but I hope you always know that I'm always in your corner and I love you, man. I appreciate that Damn A little sexy talk at the end. I'm going to make you cry. Yet I tried my hardest, man, I'm going to see you cry on the show.
Brian:When you said I'm going to get teared up, I'm just kidding. All right, can you stay on the phone for a few minutes after we're done here? Absolutely All right. Well, brother, I appreciate you again, one of the greatest men of my life, one of the most impactful people of my career and my professional and personal life. So I appreciate you coming back on the show. Hey, thanks, you're welcome. Thanks, brother, all right, everyone. Hey, I know right now I'm going to get a lot of heart letters on this episode. We did last time Frank was on.
Brian:This one was even better in my opinion. It was much more free-flowing and just a natural, authentic conversation Wisdom that Frank shared. I mean, I've got a page of notes here that I'm going to dissect and I've learned a lot of things that I know I need to work on. So I know you're going to get a lot of value of it. I'm going to ask you to do a couple of things for me.
Brian:Audience Number one, first and foremost, please share this with three to five people you care about. You've got that young person coming out of college, or out of school going into their career, military, trade school, whatever it is. Share this with them. This is stuff I wish I would have known at 20, 25 years old. Also, anybody you know right now who just needs a little boost in life, who you may think hey, this person could get some value from what Frank said. This is after 30 some years of Frank's life experience in the professional world and 50 some years of living a good life there's a lot of value that somebody could benefit from. So please do that, first and foremost, and please rate the episode, rate the show, subscribe and, most importantly, please get out there and live your life, strive to be your best, show love and respect to others and yourself, and live with intention and live with purpose. Until next time, I hope you all know how much I appreciate each and every one of you. Take care.
