The Bamboo Lab Podcast
"Ordinary people doing extraordinary things!"
The Bamboo Lab Podcast
"Refuse to Be a Prisoner of Your Past" with John Evangelista
What truly sets exceptional financial advisors apart? Is it technical knowledge, investment returns, or something deeper? In this deeply personal conversation, John Evangelista shares the journey that transformed him from a young advisor at American Express to the founder of a specialized wealth management firm serving university faculty and staff across the country.
John's story isn't just about building a successful practice—it's about making the courageous decisions that defined his career. After selling the majority of his client book in 2003 and starting over with just 14 families, he discovered that clarity of purpose would become his North Star. Despite being told his idea to specialize in serving university employees was "the dumbest idea ever," John persisted, building a thriving firm now registered in 19 states with clients from Yale to USC.
The most powerful revelation comes when John reflects on what he's learned after three decades in the business: "Great clients can help you create a great revenue stream, but great relationships create a great life." This philosophy has transformed how he mentors the next generation of advisors, teaching them to count relationships rather than just client numbers. The depth of these connections became painfully clear when John flew to Hawaii to say goodbye to a dying client who told him, "All I feel is love."
For those facing their own challenges, John offers two transformative principles that guided his journey: "Surround yourself with the best team possible" and "Don't be a prisoner of your past." These insights helped him overcome early setbacks, including his parents' divorce and other career disappointments, to build both a successful business and a fulfilling life that includes raising bees and producing honey now sold in stores.
Whether you're in financial services or any profession where relationships matter, this conversation will remind you that technical skills alone aren't enough—it's the human connection that truly changes lives.
"Good financial advisors change their clients' lives, but great financial advisors change the world."
https://bamboolab3.com/
Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, peak Performance Coach, brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and soar? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you, all of you strivers, thrivers and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at wwwbamboolab3.com.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab Podcast. As always, I'm your host, brian Bosley. Folks, I've been excited to have our guest on for quite a while. We tried to do it a few months ago and then I had a glitch and we couldn't do it. What was 30, I don't know, maybe 31 years ago or so, I was working in the Ameriprise financial office in Ann Arbor, michigan, and there was this kind of bullpen and I got a chance to work with I don't know, maybe 15 people, 12. It's been a long time.
Speaker 2:There was one particular gentleman that made an impact on me and I was with the company for five years and I worked with a lot of different advisors and there were four or five that I just never forgot about. Like they left an imprint on me. It was their work ethic, their character, their kind of the personality, and so over the past two months I've already, or the past three months, I've already had one of those gentlemen on the podcast. So now I'm bringing number two on, and this gentleman here was one of the. He was the first one who had an imprint on me at Ameriprise Financial 31 years ago or so. So today, folks, we have John Evangelista. John, my friend, welcome to the Bamboo Lab podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Brian. I'm glad that we finally made this happen.
Speaker 2:It's been 30 some years.
Speaker 3:Yes, it has, and I tell you you are somewhat infamous here in my firm. All of my advisors know who you are by name, just because you made an imprint on me back then and I've known a lot of people in my career over the last 30 years and, yeah, you made an impact, an imprint on me and that's why it's kind of a full circle moment now talking years later.
Speaker 2:That's crazy and I was a blumbering fool back then because that was kind of my first experience at all in Well, I guess that was my second experience in any type of management position. I don't even know what the title was training manager or something. It was kind of a part time gig really because we still had to run our practices. But I remember those days fondly and I can still remember exactly where you sat in that bullpen At least my memory when you'd walk in. It was the left far corner in that area, or was it the far?
Speaker 3:right. Well, I still remember when you walked into the coffee room I'm sight unseen, didn't know you from Adam. When you walked into the coffee room, when we there I'm sight unseen, didn't know you from adam. And you walked in and I was getting coffee for a prospect that was sitting in the lobby and you just introduced yourself and you said I don't know if you remember this you're like hey, I'm brian bosley, I'm your new training manager, and I was all excited deer in the headlights a little bit, because it's relatively early on and you said so who's running this thing? And I looked at you, probably like a young puppy, and like what do you expect my answer to be? And you just looked at me and said well, let me give you a clue, it's not me. And I was like and that set it off? Uh, and it was both scary but exciting. And and um, we had a lot of fun, a lot of success that first year.
Speaker 2:So you got me started the right way. Oh, thanks, brother, it was an honor. It was an honor, all right. Well, I've obviously got to know a lot about you from the beginning and now. We've been friends on Facebook, we've talked on the phone, we've kept in contact via text over the years. But can you please tell the Bamboo Pack audience out there a little bit about who you are, where you're from, childhood family, who or what inspired you?
Speaker 3:whatever you have. Yeah, so, yeah, so, um, so I, I really lived in ann arbor mission for a long period of time. Um, however, I was originally born in upstate new york. Uh, I'm a first generation filipino-american. My dad uh immigrated from the Philippines in 1961. Met my mom, my mom's family's, all from North Dakota. So if you look at my image, you won't see the German, french, canadian side of the family from my mom's side of the family.
Speaker 3:So, sadly, uh come from a divorced family. Uh, and so mid part of fifth grade, my mom and my stepfather uh moved us from upstate New York, just outside of Albany, to Ann Arbor, michigan, and for the most part I really haven't gone very far. Uh, so the the building in which you and I met uh here in Ann Arbor, my current office, is maybe a par five away. It's less than probably 500 yards. So been in various offices, but so so that's uh, yeah, so that's how I ended up here, and, and generally that's who I am I, and generally that's who I am I, married to my lovely wife Chris. I always say that we've been together since 1992, albeit we haven't been married that long, but I do want to give her credit for time served and we were blessed with one son. We both came from larger families, however, I think we were both building our careers and got started a little bit later on that, but we are quite blessed with one son who just recently graduated from college and is now working for the firm, so that's exciting.
Speaker 2:I did hear that and I saw that. I think it was. Maybe it was on your website or something, or maybe you post it. I saw that somewhere at one point.
Speaker 3:Now, where did you go to school? So I went to Eastern Michigan. So everybody always assumes, just because I'm an Ann Arbor kid been around here, that I think the presumption for most people is oh, you graduated from the University of Michigan and I did not. I actually graduated from Eastern Michigan. It's a good school, it isation management major, because that had a lot to do with financial planning.
Speaker 2:And where did John graduate from?
Speaker 3:So the University of Alabama. So they have the specialized degree program we mainly hire from the personal financial planning degree programs that are the precursor to hopefully sitting for the CFP exam. So John decided to go to Alabama and and absolutely loved it and graduated in May and I always like to say he's off the personal payroll and now he's on a professional payroll.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations, john, well done. Alabama is an amazing school, other than when they played Michigan and I thought. I think he texted you when they played Michigan in the playoffs a couple of years ago and they played them again. I remember texting you. Was that a tough choice for you?
Speaker 3:A little. So, growing up in Ann Arbor, playing football in Ann Arbor, when you have Bo Schembechler who comes into your ninth grade football group and it's like you know larger than life, and our high school was in the shadow of Michigan Stadium, so it's kind of hard to not love Michigan. So, however, I have learned to love Alabama and we're all dyed in the wool roll type people as well.
Speaker 2:That's good. They're both great schools. I'm a Michigan fan, not a man. I obviously went to Central Michigan University, but I met Bo Schembechler in 1983 at the Fieldhouse in Ann Arbor when we were going to the state championship as a high school and I was a junior high schooler and that was one of my big claims to fame. And I only met him the one time, but I was a diehard fan of his. I was young during the 10-year war between him and Woody Hayes, but I read all about it and I've watched so many of those old games or those old clips over and over. So well, that's awesome. Can you share a little bit about your firm with the audience and when you started that and kind of what you're about, as much as you can, and obviously with compliance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so.
Speaker 3:So, as you know and as we've already discussed, starting at American Express many years ago, so originally had intended, realized I was an early adopter to that fiduciary-based, that fee-based planning as soon as American Express opened up that platform in 1998, I was an early adopter to that and realized that most of the people that I was advising and bringing on were coming at some point. They were coming for me and not necessarily for the blue box as we used to say back then. And I also wanted to be quite clear that I didn't want my clients to confuse who I worked for and who I represented. I'd left earlier, started contemplating going independent, as we say in 2001,. Had started a due diligence process to consider where we would go, with whom we would affiliate, and then 9-11 happened and I just realized it's like okay, during this time I'm not going to ask my clients to make a leap of faith and leave with me. So stuck around a little longer, 18 months. A business partner of mine at the time felt like he needed to leave, so he jumped across uh, before I did. And then when I left, uh, american express, believe it or not, I I made a pretty significant decision to sell.
Speaker 3:So when I left American express in 2003, when I finally did move over, uh, now my wife happened to be pregnant at the time. Uh, so I don't know what I was thinking at the time to do this, but just chose to go independent. I sold a majority of my book of business. I had been advising 387 families at that point and I started completely over, for all practical purposes, with 14 families. Wow, for all practical purposes, with 14 families. Wow. So, even though you and I met in 95, I, for all intents and purposes, restarted my career in 2003. Now, challenges of that I share with my wife. I've got you, you can stay home. Let's have this baby, our first child at the time, thinking that we would have more. Uh, she left a well-established career and because I shared with her, I've got us, we're covered. And that was naive, that was ignorant, that was not necessarily the best thing to do and just try to start over with 14 clients, but I did it anyway. Um, so, that's so. That's kind of how independence happened. Um, I would say how, the current iteration, how we've arrived where we are now, and I'll maybe describe that a little bit more here in a minute.
Speaker 3:So some people that you know, tony Mazzelli, uh, ken Evangelista, people that I had known from American Express. We were affiliated loosely. They approached me in 2000, really 2005 and said hey, you know what you know, we've got another advisor. Hey, you know what you know, we've got another advisor, well-established, you know, million dollar producer. And they said to me a very simple sentiment, which is you know, he's got all the resources and not a lot of time, and, to be direct, you have more time and fewer resources. So what are your thoughts about you joining him?
Speaker 3:And so left Ann Arbor even though I kept an office, hedged my bets maybe a little bit, and that was fortuitous that I did Went up, worked with his principal, brought all of our systems and processes that we had already been utilizing individually in Ann Arbor systems and processes that we had already been utilizing individually in Ann Arbor and legitimately took this from 1.1 million of revenue to 1.75 million of revenue inside of 12 months alone. And then you're saying, well, what's bad about that? Well, realized, at the end of that 12 months, when we were talking about the next, the business plan for the next year, it's like well, john, go, go get the business on your own. And I'm like, well, that's not why I'm here, right, and not gaining any recognition or acknowledgement that I had any part of helping this go from a 1.1 million to 1.7. So I realized at that point it's like you know what this isn't for me, um, if I'm not going to be valued, if I'm not going to be acknowledged for you know the time and effort, etc. Um, so I decided at that point to come back to ann arbor and then you may be familiar with peter montoya's book, the Brand Called you. I'm not. I don't know if you know that, because a lot of times people ask okay, evangelist and associate wealth management for university faculty and staff, how did that come to be?
Speaker 3:And so, while I was still in Brighton, michigan, I'm still working with this principal I decided on my own dime, on my own time, I flew down to Miami, florida, and I met, as you have, you get these groups, they invite advisors from all around the country and you explore. This quote-unquote brand called you. And so the simple premise who do you work with? Who do you work with that? Who do you really like working with and who really likes working with you, right? So simple, simple premise. So what do you do and who do you do it for.
Speaker 3:So here I am, sitting in Miami, I'm sitting in this group of probably no less than 70 advisors that's probably one of the younger ones there and as I went through this discovery process there, I'm like, well, who do I like working with and who really likes working with me? And really it kind of started with my mom. My mom was a University of Michigan nurse and what I realized, the people that really loved working with me and I loved working with them. There was a lot of consistency and they were university, faculty and staff. So we have, as you know, here in Ann Arbor, we have the University of Michigan.
Speaker 3:So, and I'll never forget, you know, as we're going through this discovery process of exploring, can you have a niche Right, and you think about, back then most people were generalists. Definitely in American Express we're all generalists. It's like you have, as we used to joke, if you have a dollar and a pulse, we'll work with you, kind of thing. So at that point, to realize that you know what, I'm going to take this leap, I'm going to narrow, I'm going to take this leap, I'm going to narrow, I'm going to create this niche I'm going to work with and I'm going to provide wealth management for university faculty and staff and and really the basis of that is it's going to attract the people you're looking for and it's going to deflect the people you don't. That you're not looking for, and that's really how that started. So here I uh to bring this back full circle. So I fly back. I am just pumped up, I am excited, I'm invigorated.
Speaker 3:I had this like crap of not being acknowledged for the success that we had over the last year and I presented this business opportunity. I said I don't even need to rebrand, I just want to put a separate tab on our website, and part of the reason I was able to help move the firm from 1.1 to 1.7 is there was unmined gold. There were unmined opportunities within that base and a lot of them were faculty and staff right. So I present this business opportunity. Let's do this and I'll never forget. This individual looked across the table for me and said that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. That will never work. And here we are. Yes, that's a true story.
Speaker 3:So I realized at that point I gotta get out of here. So I reached out to one of my former compatriots who had also gone independent at that point and I said, chris, I gotta get out of this town. You know, can I come back to the ann arbor office that he had? And he's like, come, you know, come back home. Basically yeah, so, anyway. So that's how it all started. Um, I know that was a long-winded explanation and here we are. Um 21 employees registered in 19 states. We advise faculty and staff from Yale to USC, from Michigan State down to Florida and Texas Vanderbilt, I mean, you name it and that's one of the reasons too, I wanted to have you on.
Speaker 2:Of course. I've run in the same circles as you have more professionally in the past six years and your name has popped up so many times and I remember when I first heard your name I'm like hey, I know him. You know, I didn't make the connection right away and this is probably five years ago, I'm not even sure, you know, maybe it was through you know Tony or someone, and then I just started, you know, asking how you're doing, of course. And then, you know, I'm blessed now that my daughter gets to associate with you quite often and I mean, I've heard nothing but amazingly positive things about you and your firm and when I heard that, it didn't surprise me but it did make me smile, thinking OK, he turned out exactly the way I thought he would when he was 20 some years old. And you've done it. You have done it.
Speaker 2:Your firm has an amazing reputation and I think that's somewhat hard to do to maintain a firm that's 20 some years and it's running. You know you don't, when you don't hear anything negative about them. It's easy to do that after a firm that's one or two years old. You know you're, you're in the glory, kind of like. You're in those glory years, honeymoon phase, everything's good. But when you hear so many good things over the years, and especially when a firm is 21 years old so hey, by the way, I've got pulled up right now your wedding picture on Facebook. So you and Chris, that's the face I remember, even though you've aged very well. I mean, I would spot you in a crowd, like if somebody said which one of these 150 people is John.
Speaker 3:I'd say that's him right there, Even if I hadn't seen your picture over the past 30 years.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit more gray. There's a little bit more gray there. There's a little more gray. Yeah, that's okay. Well, I don't have any gray because I don't have any hair. So maybe that's your secret Just cut your hair off. But no, you got good hair. I love it. So, um, the question I like to ask everybody John, you can talk about this over the course of your career, let's just even say, I don't over your life, you just call it, I don't care what time frame. What is one of the greatest challenges you've overcome? And and then, how did you overcome it?
Speaker 3:uh, I, I would say I would go back to that 2003 because I thought about that idea of challenge and, I think, being a new dad, feeling that weight of the responsibility to know, um, that my wife really let me, left what her career was at that point. You know, we left that safety and that stability that I counted on as a new advisor. Right, I, you know I would not be where I am in so many different ways without Chris, and so she supported me when we were all young, broke advisors, trying to make our way, and so then to really feel like I, I let her down, that I failed, that it presented more challenges, which should hopefully, for new parents, be to be this wonderful moment. This time, and you know, without going into too much, that person that had jumped across ahead of me in 2001, you know, I thought I was kind of getting the band back together and feeling like we were going to grow a firm and grow a business together. Band back together and feeling like we were going to grow a firm and grow a business together.
Speaker 3:And he was quite distracted and made some really bad decisions that impacted Chris and me significantly financially, um, and that's part of why I took the opportunity to go affiliate with that, that other principal. So it was a very tough time, that that couple of year time period, which was why it made it even more challenging to not feel wanted, not to be acknowledged or recognized, when I felt like I was making a difference and I felt like there was a real opportunity, um, with that principle, that that older advisor, um, and so that was a very, very tough time.
Speaker 2:Well, it was a lot of things happening at once too. I mean, you were probably only married. It was. You were married. What? Four years? Four or five years at the time, yes, or four years, yes. And you got married in 99.
Speaker 3:Yep Gosh.
Speaker 2:Well it's, it's amazing. How do you think, though, when you look at that challenging time, do you think if that somehow would have been stripped from your experience, do you think you'd be where you are today? Or were you able to use that as a learning and a motivation to get to where you are today?
Speaker 3:I absolutely did use it as motivation. So, you know, coming from a divorced family, my dad, especially once we moved out to Ann Arbor, I was the classic kid of a divorce, right. So you saw, I saw my dad twice, you know, two weeks in the summer and then over the holidays, over Christmas break, right. So I always wanted his recognition, I wanted him to feel proud of me, Right, and I wanted uh to feel that in his, his recognition uh and awareness of what I was doing, and I wanted to be him to be proud of his son kind of thing. So, um, I guess the point of that is, you know, feeling like I was letting it down, like letting people down.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And and so, even though I felt like I'd made choices that I thought were going to work out, we're going to make my life and my family's life better, and it didn't work out that way through. You know both individuals that were in my life professionally at the time and so absolutely so then that. And then having that sense of purpose though that's why I say that that brand call you having that clarity of purpose, having that clear mission of now I know what I'm going to do. Now I know exactly who I want to be. These are people who care about me and I care about them. I want these people because back then, brian, most of the university and it's really hasn't changed that much over the last 30 years. This is a group of people who have been generally ignored by most financial firms, and I understand why, because they generally can't understand how to monetize that client. However, I believe so many more people should have retired from the University of Michigan as multi-multi-millionaires, and it's not that they didn't want to, it's because they didn't know how to. So that clarity and that challenge, um, that that principal kind of put down and he probably doesn't know, that he kind of helped me in that, um, in a twisted way which is and chris will tell you this story and it really hasn't changed much with our firm today which is kind of embodies our core philosophies and our core values that, whether you have 5,000 or 5 million, we treat everybody the same. We take everybody through the same exact process.
Speaker 3:And so that motivation of I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm going to prove to you that this is not the dumbest idea and I'm a very competitive person. I don't know if you remember that, um, I don't like to be bad at anything and don't get me wrong, my, my handicap's higher than it should be on the golf course, but it doesn't mean I don't want to always get better and be the best at everything that I'm doing. Um, I generally don't know how to do anything halfway. Um, nine years ago, I started raising bees as a hobby. I started with two colonies and now I've got honey on store shelves and you know we're producing thousands of pounds of honey. So, as Chris will tell you if you were here, I generally don't know how to do anything halfway.
Speaker 2:So I love that. Hey, I had some of your honey. I think I sent you a picture, didn't?
Speaker 1:I send you a picture.
Speaker 2:I think you did A few weeks ago. It's amazing. Yeah, my daughter told me she goes. Hey, you got to try some of this. I'm like why she goes. It's John's honey. I'm like what. I had no idea that you raised bees.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting when you talk about using that time frame as a motivation. I'm so, you know. I think when you get older and you get more experience, you know failures behind you in life. You realize the beauty of failures. You realize the beauty of mistakes or dark moments in your life. You don't realize them when you're going through them. I don't think, even at my age I still I recognize them as learning, but it's still hard to get through those. But every one of those failures, if you handle it right, are always the big impetus to your successes.
Speaker 2:I had a dear friend of mine call me or texted me last night as I literally was crawling into bed and the person said are you busy? I said I'm actually literally calling the bed but I can talk. So they called me, had a really challenging day yesterday, really a momentous day, and we talked about using and this is a little bit thicker probably, or maybe a little deeper, but it is sometimes you have to go to a dark side. You have to go and really experience that pain you're going through or that fear or whatever it might be, and you got to almost. There's always a in that dark side there's always a power and a strength. And I think if you can harness the power and strength from that dark side and I don't mean going to a dark, deep, heavy depression, but when you can really experience that pain and feel it without trying to run away from it and be aware of it you're intentional about the feelings, kind of extrapolating your feelings you can pull a lot of power out of that. You really can. And a lot of people do that intuitively, they just do it, they use it as a motivation. But sometimes you can dig deep down there.
Speaker 2:I've done that a couple of times in my life and it's I always find big moments of not just professional but personal advancements that come after a failure or come after a challenge or a dark period of my life. There's always the next level always seems to be maybe a level of some type of happiness or success that I didn't really realize I could have achieved prior to that moment happening. And so I try to tell people man, if you're going through something dark right now, you know, ask yourself what is this trying to tell me? So what am I learning from it? And then how can I deliberately and intentionally use this moment to tell me? So what am I learning from it? And then, how can I deliberately and intentionally use this moment to do something that I never would have done positive thing that I never would have done had this moment never occurred, because there's a silver lining in all those clouds. So it sounds like you did exactly that.
Speaker 2:So well done, my friend. Yeah, I like looking through your pictures here and I just kind of click every once in a while so with my finger, when I'm done talking, I look over to see what the next picture is you at an Alabama game. You at a Michigan game. You and Chris getting married. You hanging out with John so good stuff, brother. What do you think John, in the past 12 to 24 months has been one of your greatest learnings?
Speaker 3:I would say that you know, as I've continued to grow the company, as I've continued to develop as an advisor and really understanding that I've been building a business I'm not building a practice that what I've learned because I give a lot of thought to this. I reflect a lot about what makes us different. It's usually I'm in the process of interviewing interns and potential new hires next year and it's a common question of, like, what makes you different and what I've realized over the last 12 months I would say mainly in the last 12 months I've come to a realization and it's really impacted how I mentor and develop the next generation of advisor now, which is great clients can help you create a great like revenue stream, but great relationships create a great life, and that's to me. I used to talk to all my advisors as we put our business plans together, how many new clients they are going to take on next year as an example, because we're in the midst of getting ready for our 2026 business planning and I thought about it most of my whole career. We've always talked about clients, clients, clients, households and I thought about it most of my whole career. We've always talked about clients, clients, clients, households and I realized that's what's helped us become a by-referral only, like this gold standard of what everybody wants but few people ever have body. That is me. I can't separate me as a person, as me as an advisor is the relationships that I have with my quote unquote clients is I have more relationships than I have clients and I do stuff with my clients outside of I was. You know, whether we go on vacations with each other, whether we play pickball with each other, whether we play, uh, golf with each other, whether we drink bourbon or you know all of these things that we do together that extend outside of the office, and you know I sadly, um, I'm going to try and keep this together here for a couple minutes. So, um, I lost two of my longest clients last week and when we were in Italy, um, one was expected, kind of, I was blessed, blessed, which is another life lesson. Just don't wait.
Speaker 3:Luckily, client's wife reached out to me in August and said hey, I know you're planning on coming out here to Hawaii to come see us around Christmas time, but he's lost 25 pounds. I don't think he's going to make it. But he's lost 25 pounds, I don't think he's going to make it. And so I got to the office the next day and I looked at my staff and I said I'm going to Hawaii. And they're like what are you talking about? You're going to Hawaii. I said I'm going to Hawaii, I'm going to say goodbye.
Speaker 3:So when I was sitting there with him in his bed in his living room and sitting there with his wife, and I'm sitting there with his stepdaughter and his step granddaughter and he's just smiling at me, he said something you said. He said, john, you look exactly the same because we don't get to see each other Right. And he says you look, you don't. We don't get to see each other right. And he says you look, you haven't aged. And he's just got this huge smile. And I looked at him and I said Al, how do you feel? And he said I don't know. I can't tell you how I feel, but all I feel is love. And it's hard for me to even tell that story right now.
Speaker 3:But what I realized as I've reflected on this year is the relationships I have that have enriched my life and I've been blessed right If by having them in my life.
Speaker 3:And I have a saying here.
Speaker 3:You know, I expect our clients to have a better life with us in their life.
Speaker 3:And so both of these gentlemen, who were some of my longest clients, and to lose them and to realize that sense of loss of I will miss those conversations, I'm going to miss that relationship, and that's the part where I had already started prior to this.
Speaker 3:Last month changed my conversation with my next generation advisors and really changed that dialogue and really change that dialogue of I want you to think about how many relationships you have with the people you see every day versus the number of clients that you can count on your you know, book of business. And so that I would say to kind of that, that encapsulating moment, that encapsulating value statement of just recognizing what's made a difference is the relationships, the advice. Hopefully, as we all should hope, being a financial advisor is providing good financial advice. However, a key difference is I've seen these people beyond the zeros on their statements and it doesn't matter how many zeros are on there. So I have these deep relationships with people that love coming in. I love seeing them, they love seeing me and, you know, business gets in the way of our conversation about life.
Speaker 2:If that makes sense, it does, man. That might be one of the best answers I've ever heard to that question. So, first of all, rest in peace, al. I did see that on your post and, uh, you know, it's very, very touching.
Speaker 2:Um, it's interesting that you you talked a while ago when we first started talking about when you kind of branched off and you had this. You know, you use the term of clarity of purpose and I think so many advisors could learn a lot about that because obviously, when you had that clarity of purpose of what you want to do, that was the seed to then how you eventually built this business on relationships and really loving. I mean, you almost never hear of an advisor using the word love when they refer to their clients. But that all started probably back in that time when you decided you know, I, you had you, you kind of knew you read the book. You know the uh, what is it? The brand is? I just put it my, I put that my mailbox, actually on amazon, uh, while we were talking, um, that was written quite a few years ago but I'm sure it's quite a year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, I'm what we call a dinosaur. I always say I'm a dinosaur.
Speaker 2:I still read seven habits of highly effective people. I still read some of those old classics a lot just to kind of keep myself grounded on some of the stuff that taught me, um. But I think that's a really rare and I think it's an incredibly important aspect for, especially when you're working with somebody for 20 years, 30 years, if you don't cross a little bit of that boundary of of having some really strong emotions towards someone. I think it's almost kind of indicative, it's an almost an indictment on someone's inability to feel emotion. Because you work with your clients, you know, obviously in one of the most intimate parts of their life, which is their money. I mean, I got to a point, probably four or five years ago, where I have I've gotten very close to some of my clients I mean, so they become my best friends, um, and every day text good morning, brother, I love you. Sometimes after a coaching session, I love you, man, bless you. I love you. Uh, tell your family. I said I think that.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing, john, you know how I? You caught me in my early stages of my career where I was really inexperienced. I was very insecure as a leader I had no, I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. So what I did was act tough and probably, you know I'm obviously I had my, my, my personality was still still I was an adult. So it was kind of it was different than it is now but I was still, I think, a kind person. But I would do things just because I thought it was the right, because to be a leader you had to be tough, you know, to mentor, to coach, to consult, whatever. You had to be tough, had to be a badass, and I did that.
Speaker 2:After I left the company, back in 1996, american Express started. You know my current practice and my current business. I kept that going with my clients for probably a decade and maybe 12, 13, 14 years, and I realized how draining that was for me. Like I was, I was swimming against the current because I was trying to make myself this kind of callous business consultant who you know focuses on results only, and you know which results, obviously the most important thing, or at least they're there, with relationships right at the top. But I was all about that and I realized how draining it was for me until I decided, wait a minute, just be me, be nice. And it took me probably several months or a year to kind of make that transition or migration. All of a sudden I've got better clients. I where the results are better.
Speaker 2:I love working with my clients. Now I get up on Monday mornings Like most people get up on Christmas morning. I I'm excited to work. I have a passion for it and it's because I decided just be a human being and if you're working with somebody for years, or sometimes even months, you build a relationship with them and there's no problem. I think it's beautiful to kind of expand that or to at least not try to hide behind it, to let it be what it is, so I love it, by the way. So this might be kind of the same kind of question, but it may be. It may be it's on the same lines as what do you consider, john? You know 30 some years in the business? Uh, I've been with evangelists and associates for now for 21 years. Yeah, 21 years. Okay, you got a number of. You got an amazing practice. What's a win for you right now in life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so. So win in life right now is really what I see as my role moving forward in not totality, but it's a significant part is seeing the advisors that I have educated and mentored, the development of those advisors helping to get better faster. I would say that when I'm interviewing no-transcript and I would say it's almost like parents, right, we all want our kids to maybe be a little bit better than us, like have a little bit better life than we had. Right, if we experienced trials and tribulations, hopefully maybe to minimize those. I don't want to necessarily eliminate those, but the wins that I see is seeing my younger advisors succeed, seeing them when those light bulb moments go on. Or seeing that when we have a holiday party for our clients at a local restaurant here in Ann Arbor and clients are walking up to me who I don't I've never met them, I mean that's a weird experience for me at this point right, where clients are coming up at that holiday party and they're like, hey, you know what at that holiday party? And they're like, hey, you know what, emily's awesome, or Nicole's doing a great job, or Wyatt, or you know so.
Speaker 3:So my wins are seeing them win right and seeing the impact that they're making in people's lives, um, and that they bought in. You know, because, as you know, this is not an easy business. Um, I've really tried to stay true to what all of you put into us back then. Obviously, you know, modified it in some ways, but not drastically. So I you might be surprised to hear that. So, so really, the the wins are seeing the wins, seeing them accomplishing their goals, seeing them attain their annual goals before December 31st, right, seeing the excitement when they set their business plans for the next year. And there's this fear and there's terror, like I know you're never going to be happy, john, in a friendly way. You're going to want my goals to be bigger and badder next year, and I have no idea how it's going to happen, but you have faith that it's going to happen. So I think it's just going to happen.
Speaker 3:So that's a win for me, it's to see the growth of the company through their efforts, through their eyes, to see and develop that next generation, and that's why I'm excited that, um, my son has decided to come into the business. Is, you know, hopefully help him be a better advisor than I am, right, honestly Sure, um, cause that's what our, that's what our, that's what our community needs. Um, that's what our clients need. Um, that's what their kids need. So we're all about intergenerational planning as well, so, um. So, as I think about what are the wins, it's more of an internal, uh, assessment. It's not. How does our broker dealer view us? Where do we fall in a hierarchy of of them? You know what I mean. So well, yeah, so that's that's how we would define that.
Speaker 2:You know, a lot of people ask me, when I first start coaching them, somebody who might be in an executive position or wants to be in a leadership position. They ask me, they, I asked them to define leadership and they give me all these bullshit answers really, um, and they're partially. I ask them to define leadership and they give me all these bullshit answers, really, and they're partially correct. And I always tell them yeah, you know, you're on the right track. But I think leadership is one thing. It's increasing the sense of self-worth of the people around you and you know, sometimes you know that can be a form of inspiring them. Sometimes it can be holding them accountable, it can. You know, sometimes they need to see a side of you they don't want to see again. You know, so to speak, it has to be a lot of things and that's, it sounds to me, exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 2:You know, when you, when you talk about this idea of you know, with you know, john going to be a better let's get him to be a better advisor than I am, and all the other advisors you're working with, make them better than me. That's this old idea that my friend always tells me. As parents, our job is to push our children further up the stream than we were pushed and their job is to push their. And that's what you know. Obviously, evolution is, I guess, microevolution, so I think that's that's great. Well, I mean, it's obviously why the reputation of the firm is so good. So this is my favorite question and I love, I love, this one. So if I were to drive down from Marquette, michigan, all the way to Ann Arbor, michigan, today and pull my time machine, john and we were going in, you can go back to any stage of your life, from childhood till yesterday. And if you could sit down and talk to your younger former self, what words of wisdom, recipes for success or advice would you give your younger John?
Speaker 3:Well, this will okay. So, from my perspective, because you, you and I, through when we correspond, and you, you post certain things and and it doesn't surprise me, a lot of the things that you, you post that I'm like, well, of course he feels that way, because I feel the same way. So let me tell you one that I would definitely, I would not be where I am without the team that I have, and that team is my company, my work group, but my family, my group of friends. That is not huge, it's small, but important, right? So, surrounding yourself with the best people and and I, I, you know the, the adage much better than than I am, but I think you saw, you posted it, uh, maybe a month ago or a couple weeks ago which is, you know, if you're in a room of being a group of six intelligent or five intelligent people, who are you? You're the sixth, right. So I would say, surrounding yourself with the best teammates possible, the people that are there for you, that are going to support you. They're going to be not necessarily, yes, people, but they're going to be people that will buy into what you want your life to be and they're going to enrich that, and I've been. That has helped me.
Speaker 3:And again I'm going to relate this back to being a child divorce. My mom was a single mom here in Ann Arbor. She's at the hospital Most of the time I have. You know there were four kids here and you know my sister helped. She was older, she, she was kind of a little bit surrogate mom for me in some ways, but she was trying to live her own life. And so my teammates, um, playing football, uh, that's why I love everything. Team. I love teams because it's made a difference in my life.
Speaker 3:So, number one, surround yourself with the best team possible and recognize, when you don't have a good teammate is, you know, cutting that, cutting that relationship. And and I don't know if it was Maya Angelou or whatever, somebody said the same once somebody shows you who they truly are, believe them the first time. Right, I love that and so. So I learned that late. So and that's the part where we generally always want to I've never, I don't, I haven't lived a perfect life. I've made mistakes, I've made my than my fair share and people have still kept me in their lives, right. However, you know, and I know that we all will come across people who, at some level, do not have our best interest in mind. Right, it doesn't make them good or bad people, it's just they're not the right people for us.
Speaker 3:So recognizing that earlier and eliminating those people creating boundaries, creating where you, even if you have to have them in your life, that you're going to create some boundaries there. So, surrounding yourself with the best team possible and recognizing when you don't have somebody that should be there with you, because for me, it's all about the journey now. So everybody asks me now it's like, okay, what's the next goal? Where's the next? And I am a planner. This should not surprise you. I had a goal by the time I was 60. Today is my 57th birthday.
Speaker 2:So I know, today is literally my birthday. Happy birthday, brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I appreciate that. So, but you know, and you taught me back then and it's in all the books A is A right. So I have a goal. When I was 50, I said to myself I want to work with clients and staff that I look forward to seeing every single day. So that's where I started seven years ago. So I just turned 57. So then I set the business plan of where we expect to be by September 16th of 2028.
Speaker 3:Now my partner, my business partner, emily, she's always like John December 31st Can we just say December 31st of 2028? And I said no, Emily, december 31st, can we just say December 31st of 2028? And I said no, emily. Like I said, I wanted to do this and hit this by the time I'm 60, because that's just the way I'm wired Right. So I guess the point of that is getting the right people on your bus right, as they say.
Speaker 3:You know, even recognizing um, I had a client many years ago, brian. I was at American Express. Still get to see him around Ann Arbor. He's a sailor, so he had a 38-foot Catalina. So I know people that are sailors and I know people that have powerboats, and I asked this gentleman also. His name was Al, interestingly, and I asked him, al, I said what's the difference between powerboats and sailboats?
Speaker 3:He says let me tell you. So, powerboaters, it's all about the destination. Sailors, it's all about the journey. I know and I was like okay, so now it's about this journey that I'm on and there are waypoints. That's what I'm saying. There are clear business goals and objectives. There are clear family goals and objectives. So there are clear timelines, deadlines, goals, objectives. However, it's more about the journey than necessarily a destination. Right, believe for me, personally and professionally, when I think about my outcome versus the outcome, in a lot of different ways, of my direct family, right that at some point. And so this is where I would say to my younger self, to answer your question in a very long winded way I love it. I love it Is is don't be a prisoner of your past. We all make mistakes, all of us. We've all, most of us, have been dealt a blow Like I didn't.
Speaker 3:My parents never thought they were going to get divorced. Like I was nine months old when my parents divorced, I never knew my family as a nucleus family, right, I was nine months old, right? So where I think about what held me back in times of life when I think about what's held some of my siblings back. I love my brother Joe. My brother Joe was higher intelligence than me, he was always better at math than me. He just I love my brother Joe. My brother Joe unfortunately could not move past some bad decisions that he made and things that happened and it's not easy to let those things go.
Speaker 3:But I would definitely say, with Chris coming into my life, I think it helped that she was a psych major at Michigan. We all need one of those, yeah, we all need one of those and I've got one in-house. So she helped me understand that it didn't matter that my parents were divorced, it didn't matter that I wasn't on the right track when we met. It didn't matter. It just like how can? And it really drives me today it's I've made the decisions that I can with the best information available.
Speaker 3:And you know we think about whether it's hiring. You know, not everybody that gets hired here has succeeded here. It doesn't make them good, it doesn't make them bad, it's just maybe not the right place for them, right and so so don't be a prisoner of your past. You know, recognize that we all make mistakes. Make you know, understand and acknowledge that we're all flawed in a lot of your past. You know, recognize that we all make mistakes. Make you know, understand and acknowledge that we're all flawed in a lot of different ways. Um, but how do we learn from that? How do we move forward from that? How do we get better from that? Because tomorrow is another day. Today I do get to wake up and say to myself I can make this day anything that I want it to be.
Speaker 3:And if all I'm thinking about is the mistake that I made yesterday or last week or last month or six months ago or God forbid I mean my mom, god rest her soul. Remember, I was nine months old when they got divorced and at one point I finally said to my mom and I want to say it was probably when I was in my forties, brian and I looked at her and I said mom, dad got remarried, dad has two new kids, dad has moved on. You haven't. The only life you're not living is yours.
Speaker 3:Everybody else is moving on and it saddens me to know that you, really you still have not let go. You are a prisoner of your past and I want you to enjoy the rest of your life, whatever left of life you have. Enjoy the rest of your life, whatever left of life you have. And so my mom's example, albeit a sad one honestly, it was sad to the day that she died a couple of years ago. We're coming up on the two year anniversary for her passing away. That's probably one of my most sad moments. That she never let go, she, she was just continuing to be a prisoner of her past, and it motivates me to be mindful of even when things don't go right. What can we learn from that and how can we move on from that? I would say my younger self is don't be a prisoner of your past. Understand that tomorrow is a new day.
Speaker 2:I think those are two of the better examples I've heard of that. That's the second question I can honestly say is probably in the top five or ten best responses I've heard today. And I think when people ask me so often, john, I get texts or phone calls from clients or mostly clients that I've either worked with in the past or currently do, and they'll ask me what is your definition of success? And I always I'm sorry, not definition of success, what is the key to success? If you had to give one, I always say look around and see who you associate with. It's who you marry, who you date, who you, and it's just the people you associate with most, whether it's teammates, whether it's colleagues, whether it's friends, whether it's family, whether it's spouses, whatever you know, partners, whatever it might be. Because I do think that, as you had mentioned, I really like the idea of you know being okay that sometimes you have to cut relationships, because some people are nourishing to us and some people are poisonous to us, and it doesn't mean they're bad necessarily. Sometimes they might be, but a lot of times it's simply because there's something that they can't give you and you can't give them, or maybe it's something you're both draining from each other and people say, well, how do you know if someone is a person you're associating? And I always say three things. It's real simple Do they celebrate with you when you do something well? Do they celebrate with you when you do something well? Do they support you when things are going tough and do they challenge you when you're doing something stupid? If people are doing those three things and you're doing them back to them, probably a good relationship, probably a solid, nourishing relationship. If they're not, maybe you have to consider getting them out so you can fill them with somebody better for you. And that tends to be pretty accurate across the board. It really does.
Speaker 2:I can tell I do this thing, john, called a CLR. It's called, it's a simple stands for conscious living reminder, and I have 33 things on a sheet of paper. It's a spreadsheet and I have to do each one of those in certain number of times every week. So, to give you an example, one is how often do I contact my mom? That's seven times a week. She has to hear from me, my kids, how much protein I put in my body, how much I exercise, you know, run, lift, whatever, right down to really silly. How much I read every week and I don't ever get all. So everyone has a different number because I don't. I don't do certain things seven times a week. I might like I take a cold shower six days a week, but I call my mom or I contact my mom seven days a week, but they all have to be met, or at least 29 have to be met. Every week I have to complete at least 29 of them, get to fruition. I never I've only gotten 33 once in all these years that I've got all of them.
Speaker 2:Where was I even going with this? Oh, I know what it is. And then I track it. So when I'm done, every week, I put it on a line chart and I can see when my numbers are down, like 16, 17 that I completed over a course, you know, that week I asked myself who was I with that week, what was I doing differently? And it almost always associates with I was hanging out with somebody not a bad person, but I was associating maybe that week or that, that timeframe, with somebody who isn't really somebody I should be hanging out with a lot. And when, when I'm peaking at like 31, 32 a week for a period of time, who are the people I'm mostly associated with during that time, and it correlates just like it's a perfect correlation every single time, and so I have some kind of quantifiable measures to be able to work to just validate what you said.
Speaker 2:So, folks, I think you want to go back and listen to what John said over the last few minutes. I think those are two of the greatest piece of advice you can get. You know, make sure that you know, surround yourself with good people and don't be a prisoner of your past. If you do those two things right now, your life will start dramatically changing over the next few months. So, all right. Final question, john is there any question? I didn't ask that you wish I would have, or is there anything? You a final message you want to leave with those Bamboo Pack members out there?
Speaker 3:A question that you should have asked me. No, I think the Continuing to be as I do right I I think where we're going next and what we're doing and what I think more. I wish more people and again, I don't know all of your audience. However, I'll speak to maybe more of the financial advisors on this podcast there there's a lot of them out there. Yeah Is really, we have so many more people coming into our world. We have so many programs Kansas State, texas, tech, all of these specialized. We have all of these people who are coming into our industry and people need.
Speaker 3:What I would coin is like that old family doctor that knew you from cradle to grave, and I think it's our responsibility I view it as mine is to really stop thinking about necessarily and I understand why we have to. It really irritates me and I understand from a business perspective. You know creating account minimums and we won't talk to anybody unless we. They have 250,000 or more, and I understand from a business perspective why that is. It's just there's a population that needs us and so making sure that we are building good people as advisors and not just good clinicians is the way I would say that Right People who have just as good of a bedside manner, as opposed to just the technical knowledge. You know, with the University of Michigan and other health care systems, that I advise clients. There's some good advisor. You know good doctors, there's some you know better doctors, but the best ones, the greatest ones, usually have a combination of the technical and the people part, people part Um.
Speaker 3:And so as I think about moving forward, as I think about helping the population, in a day and age, I hate to say it where you know everybody's more polarized and more people are seeing negative in people instead of positive and, and I think you know, making it a positive impact on somebody and understanding, you know, kind of going back to that immigrant story of my dad coming here is my dad wanted us to have a better life and that's why he came to the United States. It's like we don't have to be immigrants to understand that we can just. Are we making the next generation? Are we making our, the clients and and understand that the generational change that we can make, that we should all be excited about, regardless of whether or not they have a seven-figure or six-figure account? So defining your value system to me has been important. To me has been important to me and, coming from a Filipino family which I don't know, if you know many Filipinos, it's kind of a joke because Ken Evangelista is an Italian evangelist.
Speaker 3:I always tell people they're Italian evangelists and Filipino evangelists, because everybody because everybody always says oh, I, I know an evangelist and I'm like, okay, well, are they in architecture, construction or something like that, or are they like in medicine doctors, nurses? If they're in construction and architecture, they're probably Italian and if they're in medicine, they're probably Filipino. I'm probably related. So the importance of that, the relevance of this question, is I thought I was going to follow in my dad's footsteps because half of my aunts and uncles are doctors. My dad's a retired vascular surgeon, so I was able to, even though he told me he didn't want me to go into medicine, and that's a whole other story.
Speaker 3:It was about bringing what I felt I would have been as a clinician, as that family doctor that knew you from cradle to grave, that knew you your whole life, and I wanted to embody that as a financial advisor and express myself in that way. And that's probably will probably not surprise you that I work with a ridiculous number of clinical staff, both doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, you name it and um, so when values are clear, decisions are easy, as I say. So, um, I would say that's. Another key thing is I realized who values what I do and who did I value my relationships with, and it makes it a lot easier to say no to opportunities, so I guess that's probably an answer when you were saying that.
Speaker 2:What came to my mind was something I've never really thought of before. But when you think about let's stick with the financial advisors, I think good financial advisors change their clients' lives and they do. But a great financial advisor changes the world, and I think that's true with a lot of professions. When you focus on the relationship, you focus on the value system, you focus on building good people, not just good advisors, but good people that become great advisors. That's that critical mass that you can. You can provide in any, in any industry.
Speaker 2:If you're leading training, mentoring, role modeling, you know coaching, whatever it might be, is work on the person, getting them to be a better human. Because one of the things I see, john, in leadership is when somebody you know hires me to coach my leadership, the first thing I do is I spend the first few months with them, on them. You know we start with leadership of self and they always say, well, wait, I want to get leadership techniques and styles and strategies and tactics. No, no, don't do it. You've got to lead yourself first. You can't, you can't lead yourself. You're not leading anybody effectively, and I think that's, I think that seems like what you're doing with your advisors that you're training and bringing in, and do you ever look back? I mean, I know not every advisor you've ever trained or coached still has stayed with you but do you ever look back and see those other advisors that are no longer with you but they're doing well out there and just kind of get a sense of pride?
Speaker 3:Yes, I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the greatest feeling. Yes, I do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is a great feeling and to know that you had a part in that, uh, and also to feel the pride of when they want to reach out and just check in and and you know, hey, what are you up to? This is what I'm up to, and you know, seeing their lives, uh, and staying connected to some of those people you know is rewarding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and definitely keeps us connected to our past as well, which I think we need to. You know, it can't just always be looking forward. It's also being appreciative of where, from where we've come and who has been in our life. So yeah, so that has been quite rewarding, and probably not going to surprise you when I say this. It's kind of one of those things. It's kind of like that high school reunion which I'm about to have my 40th next year and you realize, when you go to these reunions and you see these people that are like, why don't I have these people in my life anymore? Right, and then there's some other people that you're like, okay, I understand why these people aren't in my life anymore, but so it's probably the same way that you might express, and what I might express, as people that we've touched professionally over the years, kind of like what you said at the beginning. It's just they're the people that you still smile about and say, yep, they did succeed, they did make it, so that was a good thing.
Speaker 2:Well, bless you. You, man, that's awesome. Uh, let's wrap it up. Yeah, I know you, I know you're busy and I I squeeze an hour and six minutes out of you, so I know you know you got to go. I'd like can you stand for just a couple of minutes after we sign off here? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, brother, john, I appreciate this. I, I took I I haven't been taking as many notes. When I first started, I was just taking so many notes that I was not like two, three years ago, four years ago I wasn't really. I felt I was not as engaged in the conversation, but this one I still had to take a lot of notes. This was one of the more. Here's the way I'll put it. Some of my guests make my podcast makes my time on the air a little more difficult because you really have to pull information out of them and then you get those few I'll give. One is Frank Mossett.
Speaker 2:He is one I've had on twice, man, and I just let him go. You know I'm like dude and he talks and you just go on. There's been several Doug Linick, you know, bill Williams was like that. This is a few of those guys I did that interview a few weeks ago with with Marshall Goldsmith. He was like that and it was just like. This is so easy. I'm just sitting here as a student learning and I'll throw another question out when there's a pause, when he's done, boom, I'll, or she's done, or whoever it is. That's what today was. This is one of the easiest podcast interviews I've done in almost four years of doing this, just because the information just flew and, like I always share, what people are looking for is some signs of hope. They're looking for inspiration, some words of wisdom. You delivered a 10 out of 10 on this one, brother, so thank you so much for being such an amazing guest on the Bamboo Lab podcast.
Speaker 3:I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2:All right, thank you, all right, everyone. Thank you for tuning in this week. I'll talk to you all here in the near future. As you can probably notice, I have not been putting a podcast episode once a week, like I was for a while, but we do have a number of amazing guests lined up, just like the one we had today with John. So please stay tuned, tuned, stay patient, please smash that like button, rate and review us, and please share this particular episode with at least three people. You know all you got to do is take it it's easy to hit it and share it to somebody through text or email and just want to let you know. I appreciate each and every one of you for tuning in every week or so. Talk to you soon. In the meantime, please get out there and strive to give and be your best to the world. Please show love and respect to others and back on yourself and by
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