A Playbook For Bold Growth with the Unapologetic Carolyn Nolan

What happens when “unapologetic” meets “kind”? We sit down with CEO and wealth advisor Carolyn Nolan to unpack how bold honesty can coexist with empathy, and why that pairing—candor with care—changes your career, your money, and your relationships. Carolyn shares how she built a self-managing company, stepped back from direct advising to lead a mostly women team, and reframed dreaded financial meetings into energizing conversations about purpose, tradeoffs, and freedom. Along the way, she shows why saying no creates room for the right yes, and how to edit a calendar until it reflects what you actually value.

We explore the difference between being unfiltered and being reckless, and we get tactical. Carolyn’s go-to tools include the “helpful or harmful” filter for quick decisions, a practice of crafting bespoke core values instead of borrowing them, and a simple test for healthy relationships: do we celebrate, support, and challenge one another? She talks about redefining adult friendships by seeking out “my people,” setting fair expectations, and building trust so tough feedback lands with care. The result is a working model for presence over performance.

We also go there on habits. Carolyn explains why she quit alcohol, what she gained in clarity and safety, and how anyone can audit habits that once helped but now hold them back—overwork, endless scrolling, or rules that let you avoid the real choice. If you’ve felt stuck on the hamster wheel, this conversation offers a path out: fewer obligations, more intention, and the courage to articulate what you truly want.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with three friends, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. What’s one habit you’ll retire to make space for what matters next?

Transcript

Meet Carolyn Nolan, Beyond The Box

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, Peak Performance Coach, Brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning, but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and store? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you. All of you drivers, thrivers, and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at www.bamboollab3.com.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Brian. And this is an interesting story today of the guest that we have on. Because uh this guest, we just became friends on Facebook like two or three months ago. I I probably requested a friendship, and um we have a lot of mutual connections, and then we were kind of reading each other's posts and memes and stuff we were putting up, and and uh we reached out to each other and said, Hey, how about a virtual coffee? Now, folks, I've never done virtual coffee in my life, so um I'm like, yeah, that sounds great to me. So we did maybe three weeks ago, we did a virtual coffee, talked on the phone for probably an hour, and during the course of that conversation, I'm like, this lady is iconoclastic and unique. And I have to get her on because this is exactly what all of you like to hear is people who are doing amazing things, but doing it on their terms. And that's exactly what we have today. So, Carolyn Nolan, my new friend, welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

You've never been called unique before, have you?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Oh my god, never. I'm like, wow. I'm just like everybody else, but not trying to be unique, but it just keeps getting that unsolicited for different people. They're like, you're kind of outside the box, huh? I'm like, I guess I've I've been away from the box a long time.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I would almost call you unfiltered. Unfiltered a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I'm definitely unfiltered. I'm very much unapologetic, so much so I tattooed it on my arm, just so in case I forgot. Um, and I think that would actually be kind of fun for us to touch upon today, even in part, um, because I think it's a very misunderstood thing, too. Of like, does unfiltered and unapologetic mean you can like say whatever you want and do whatever you want with no consequence? So, like, oh no, that's not what that means, actually. So that would be kind of fun for us to touch on.

Unfiltered vs. Unkind: Defining Terms

SPEAKER_01 2:37

I'm all about that. I like I share with you before we start recording, probably not gonna go through all the questions. I think you and I have enough kind of uh chemistry in our conversation that we could just go talk about any subject and just roll with it. We might rely on some questions. I don't know. I'm gonna rely on the first one because I really want the audience to get to know you. So can you share what you'd like to share about us, where you're from, a little bit about yourself? You take it from there.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah. Um, so you called me a lady, which makes me feel like 110 years old. I called you a lady. You call you think you sound like I talked to this lady. I'm like, who's the lady? I mean, it's like I'm like, is someone else on the line? Um so I am a young mother. No, I'm not. I'm always gonna say I'm young. I tell all of our clients too, like anytime we're talking about young people, like, of course, us. Um, so I'm a mom of three. I have an eight, eleven, and thirteen-year-old. I'm a hockey mom, which means I live in really cozy clothes that can be weared with blankets and jackets. And I now wear my new puppy as another blanket and thing of warmth in the rink that they tell you is not allowed in the rink. And I said, Well, rules are just suggestions, unless it has to do with safety. So puppy joins us in the rink. That's where we live. Um, I'm the CEO, visionary, private wealth advisor. I personally don't work with clients anymore directly and now lead our team of nearly 20, mostly women. Um, not because we're against men, but there's something really special when you get the right women in the right room together working on the same stuff. Um I am located in the burbs of Winchester, just north of Boston. I grew up south of the city, which, if you're from Boston, you know, like going over the Dakum Bridge, you might as well be going to like Maine. I'm like, you want me to go north of the city? Um, my husband's going to be ex. I'm in the middle of getting divorced, which is not so fun, but I guess half the people listening can probably relate. Um, and let me think. I studied psychology and Italian in college at Georgetown, so obviously I became a financial advisor. That's that's just what you do, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Um you have a pretty interesting pedigree. What was interesting, folks, is I was we winded our virtual call three weeks ago. What is your dog's name? Cooper.

unknown 4:59

Cooper.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Cooper, that's right. And I remember that because my ex-girlfriend's pup or dog is named Cooper. You know what's funny? I was rocking on a trail in Marquette, Michigan, well, over the last couple of months, and I do this trail like five or six times a week, and I kept running this this guy, then a lady, then the then they're together, and they have a big old lab named Cooper. So I've I've got to know th I've known three Coopers in the last like four months.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah, there's a lot of Coopers. It was like the one name that stuck with my kick my kids. I tried to make him tater taut, didn't stick. So I'm gonna have to get another dog.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Is he still tearing up papers in the back?

Origin Story: Mom, CEO, And Builder

SPEAKER_02 5:35

No, he's he's actually he's at he loves cardboard. Nope, he's currently sneezing, but he'll likely join us if we start, if he starts hearing papers. But nope, currently sleeping. It's too bad it's not a video. He's pretty stinking cute.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Well, we're gonna do one on video, you and I, when in 26 when I go up to YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So in fact, you're the first person. I think I told somebody, whoever I was commit connecting with with your firm, that we will do this one audio, but you'll be one of the first ones we do video in 26.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

So I love that. Well, like half of how I speak is I'm half Italian, so like there's a lot of hands moving, so getting me on video is a whole other dynamic. But you can probably hear my facial expressions, I'm very expressive, except when I like just get Botox. It's a little tighter. No, I'm just kidding. Not kidding, but kind of kidding.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Okay, so I have a question for you before we go further. So I've called women ladies before, and some people have actually been offended by that. And I so I know you weren't, but what is a good term? Woman?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Um just yeah, not broad. Not broad, not dame not broad. So this broad, dame, no, I don't know. I think it's probably more I think you can almost say it more like with a tone, like this lady.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Oh, a little salty.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah, a little more play, a little more playful. Yeah, maybe. Because then you can kind of take it how you want. No, there isn't there isn't well, even with my friends, like I I'm 44, um, almost 44. This this month is my birthday. Um, but I don't yeah, I I even when I talk about my girlfriends, it's girlfriends, and like I can't be like we women, like women are like 40 years older than us. This we can't be women. We're just girlfriends. Girlfriends, I know. Girl code. I don't know. I went to an all-girls Catholic school. That's also my background. So there's um there's something just really special that happens with women, I think, especially when you do, there you go, women, when you do, as girls connect at that age when you're otherwise like you're still super awkward, but you're way more unfiltered when it's just the girls. But it'd be funny, like someone would come into school, all girls gav at school, kilts, you name it, and someone would come in with makeup, and you're like, Who are you seeing after school? You always knew when someone was up to something. But it was cool to be an athlete, it was cool to be smart, it was cool to be whatever you wanted to be. And that was like a really neat thing to be exposed to at such a young age.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

So I know you've done some interesting things in your life, and you are obviously doing more and more. And you're it seems to me when our based on our conversation and getting to know you, you're kind of always looking for that next step in the in the evolution of your life and your practice and your business. And what was it, or who was it when you were younger, who that inspired you to be this person today, of this kind of always looking to grow?

Entrepreneur First, Advisor Second

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Um, I don't think there was like I don't think there was like one person. I think it's like constant exposure to just different people's stories. So even uh you brought up this question, and the first thing, honest to God, that came to mind that I wrote myself a note, and I just started laughing when I wrote it down. As a kid, I used to get in trouble by reading in my closet at night when I was supposed to be in bed, and I was reading, because this is like when you're 12. I was reading the Babysitters Club series. And I just thought it was really cool that these group of girls would get together and start this business and they're running it out of their bedroom, and but they're also like talking about like their teenager things, and they were just being girls, but they were also running a business. And I think that was something that kind of early on just resonated with me, and it's not something I've thought about in maybe 30 years, but I was like, Oh, that was something that like first peaked. Like, I've always been an entrepreneurial person, but I never um I never thought of myself that way. And it was actually a wholesaler in our business on some wholesaler meeting, they came to my office and they're like, Oh, wait a second, I think I get you. You're an entrepreneur that just so happens to be in financial services. And I was like jaw-dropped, like, holy shit, this person, that's the first time someone just like saw it, like in our industry. Because I think in our industry too, people like people really try to put people in boxes.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Um, and I just fell into it. Like I wasn't seeking it out, and um, and I'm still here, and I love our business, but I also there's so many things in our business that bother me. And I can't help it but to try to fix it. Like, not just for me, like in our team, that's a lot of what we do. We just make things better. Like there's something screwed up, and we're like, there's gonna be a better way, but there's a reason there isn't a better way. It's really freaking hard. Solve the thing, and that's what we've been doing a lot of, which no one sees, but that's been like really fun. So that's part of what we have next is starting to share a lot of these, like it's not rocket science, but like practical tools and ways of engaging people beyond their finances in ways that like really stick. So, like, you know, our our industry has the reputation, like, people want to go to their advisor as much as they want to go get like a root canal, like it's not like an exciting meeting for a lot of people. But frankly, I'm like with the right advisor in conversation, this can be some of the most exhilarating conversations you can have because it's not just talking about what I might do someday and how do I do it. It's all those things. I'm like, how can that not be one of the best meetings? But I think a lot of advisors were never taught. I know we were taught to be salespeople.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

You were taught to be salespeople or weren't?

Better Conversations About Money And Life

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, we were taught to be salespeople. I didn't know how anything worked, but that's that was our background. That's how the industry worked at the time. And so no wonder a lot of advisors with the best of intentions are just kind of subpar. Um, and that's the elephant in the room, and no one will say it. And I unapologetically will say that I see that. Is that what I don't even think it's their fault? I know, and I I don't even think it's their fault. So I think it's pretty neat to think about um the opportunity of like again being able to engage people in really exciting conversations of what they want to do, um, and without filter. And that's again that unapologetic. I think that most people, and we see a lot with women because we see it a lot with just our teammates. And like, even just my a lot of my role within the team is now mentoring like my clients are more my teammates, and I'm kind of I don't know if I'd say like the coach or the I don't know, whatever. Call me Ted Lasso. Ha, I love that freaking show. Um, but my my role is inspiring confidence and in action and positive action. And it was for clients, and now it's for our teammates, so they can then 10x do that with all the clients that we engage. But um, but I found that a lot of women especially have a really hard time saying what they want. And what often happens is they'll say, like, even if I'm talking to a teammate about what they want to do, like in their role or what they imagine what their role could evolve to, and they'll start saying something, and it's almost like when they start getting excited, they they fold back and they're like, But I'd be willing to do this. Like, it's fine. I don't need too much. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, no one gets harmed. There's nothing wrong with saying what you want. You're not saying you're entitled to it, you're not demanding it, you're just like dreaming and like playing and like trying on. Like, even like think of like a really expensive store that maybe you feel like way out of your league and you're just like trying stuff on, and like you see if it feels right. And sometimes you go in, think of like even like a like you're going into like a car dealership. Personally, I could give a shit about cars, like it doesn't excite me. Like, I was talking to a friend the other day, and we're saying, like, if you had unlimited resources, what car would you buy? And I'm like, I'd probably have the same car, like, I don't care. Right. It's just not my thing. Yeah, like I just don't care. And that's some people's thing, but my point is like, what is something that is like your thing? And it doesn't have to be money, it could be also like freedoms associated with time or purpose or who you get to hang out with, and or all of the above. And just to like marinate in that, and I think that um never mind clients or teammates, but advisors, professionals, I don't think like almost anyone really gives it a consistent um focus. And instead, what oftentimes happens is we get shitted to death of what you should do. And it started like, like again, for me, I was I was at Georgetown, I was reluctantly for my parents, a psychology, an Italian undergrad, they're like, What what happened? I started as a biopremed, and they're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's happening here? And I'm like, I'll figure it out, it'll be fine. And I fell into this, and um, and frankly, like for anyone that doesn't know, like you don't need to study. And I tell every college student, I'm like, just study what sounds exciting for you. It doesn't freaking matter.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Like you're there to just like grow up and explore. It's just as it's just as impactful to know what you don't want to do as much as it is what you do want to do. And frankly, I don't even think you know what you want until you experience it's kind of like like when someone talks about when they go on like a bad date. I'm like, a bad date is just good data. It's not, it's not a bad experience. It's not, oh, I shouldn't have gone on that. That was a waste of my time. It just gave you good information and hopefully you can just have a good time, even if it's not the right thing for you. The same applies to like when you have a job you don't love or a class that you take that isn't your favorite. What's what's the good you can get out of it? So a lot of my perspective in life is just how do you make whatever you're doing as good as it can be? Because there's a lot of crap that's gonna happen that's totally out of your control. Um, a lot misunderstand that with me is like being um just kind of toxic positivity. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, that's that's not what I'm saying. But instead, when you're in a situation, you know, right now I'm in the middle of a divorce. I've witnessed it with my parents. Um, you see it in others, and it's you're not happy that it's happening. That wasn't the plan. But how can you like really trust that there's gonna be something, not that's even gonna happen in the future, but right now that's happening that's serving me, despite this bad thing that's resonant that I'm witnessing right now. And I've I found it just gives me incredible peace. That's like the biggest thing I feel like I've learned is life has gone on.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Do you think like because I know you know you talked about the divorce and this do you have a and I recognized this a few weeks ago, you have a very realistic yet positive mindset of the direction you're going. Do you find that when you're going through you know, we all know the the things. Um I study stoicism, I'm a big fan of stoicism. Of you know, d we don't control what happens on the outside, we only control what's in our mind and heart. Do you find that there's a period after a turning event in your life, whether it's a disaster, a catastrophe, or just something negative that happens, a divorce or you know, financial scare or whatever, um breakup in a relationship. Do you find there's a period where you can't quite grasp that philosophy? Like you still can't go, I know, I know I have to be, I should be feeling this way, that it's all a lesson, and there's gonna come I'm gonna come out better than this. I you know, I can only focus on how I react to this. Like I find there's like a month time frame after something happens to me, three to four weeks where I just can't I can't convince myself that I've gotta wallow in it. I gotta feel sorry for myself, I've gotta cry, I've gotta run from it by doing you know, extracurricular, like running it harder or working out harder, or reading. I have to do things to get my mind off it. Then it clicks, like, okay, now I understand that that was a lesson. Now I can work on me handling the change in my life and how I react to it. Do you find that or right away? Are you like, nope, I get it, I'm sad, but I know I know I can I can control my inner self on this. Does that make sense? Did I phrase that?

Saying What You Want Without Apology

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Uh yeah, totally. And I think that's the part that like sometimes people misunderstand with me because they only see the when I'm good. Like when it's not good, it's I'm just and I'm not hiding, but like like for me earlier this year it was dark. Yeah, it was really dark and spinning, and like social media in those times, politics and all that shit, like doesn't help. I'm just like, whoa. Um, and I know for me though, too, that it sometimes has to be an internal experience that like I'm not looking to get the perspective of others or their feedback or reassurance. And sometimes you just need to kind of beat something up and do your own purging. I know for me, I just kind of get sick of it at some point, and it's uh I'm like, I'm sick of feeling sad. Okay, let's go and start with one thing. And I actually I almost four years ago now engaged a coach. I sought out an accountability coach because I've never had like a real boss, and I'm like, gosh, I really could use a boss, or like someone that's asking me the question, what did you say you're gonna do today? Did you do it? And it calls me out of my stuff. And um, my coach Lindsay, um, I found her through a friend of her friend of her friend, and it's not even what she does, but she's like, This is interesting, that would be cool, and she's become a friend over the years. And even more recently, because the you know, over the summer, I moved out of my house in June um into a new place. And like, I if anyone that knows me, I do a lot of real estate stuff and I need another another house, like I need a hole in the head, but um that's just like here we go, and two days later, got a puppy. That sounds like a really smart thing to do. Um, but this dog has saved me emotionally. But the cool thing um in the process, what I found is that often um it re I I almost need to be full stop to actually witness what I'm feeling, thinking inside. And one of the questions you gave me that I love um is the the kind of what would the what the what's what advice would you give your younger former self? And it's I don't even know if it's like advice per se, but someone said to me, this isn't my original idea, um, all the answers that you're looking for you already have inside. You like you already know. And I think that we often just get ourselves busy or numbing, whether it's busy with work or the gym or our family, or for me, I do a lot of stuff with crazy real estate and interior design because it's more like a really expensive art project. That's what I do for fun. Um, expensive hobbies. Um, but I find that I would just busy, I would just busy myself to not feel, and it just required just like slowing down, but in order to speed up through like the sadness, the grief, the confusion. It it was required of me to slow down and just stop. Um and it's the hardest and like best muscle, I feel like, in the really shitty experiences of life that I now can think back to and see like, you know what, Carolyn, like the best thing you do do is say no, can't right now. Trust that it's temporary. I've been calling this period of my life the Twilight Zone.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

I'm like, I'm like, it's not good, it's not bad, it's very Twilight Zone. I'm purging every part of my life, um, but with intention. And I think what's really empowering is again doing it with intention instead of when we were younger. Like fortunately, I had some amazing mentors in our industry and otherwise, and I was just dumb enough or smart enough to do what they said, and it worked. Um and but then like at different chapters of your life, it I like that's almost there as a guidance, but you need to start looking within of what is my internal monologue telling me. Um and then kind of testing that. Because what I found is that a lot of stuff like I had thought many years ago, but I just dismissed it. So trusting yourself, like learning to trust yourself, I think is a really amazing muscle to work on.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And that's hard to do when you're going through a difficult emotional situation. Because you're because you're quite, I mean, you know, one of the things that I you ever watched were you a Seinfeld fan at all?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

No, not really. Like parts. All right.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Well, there's a famous uh episode where George does the George Costanza does the opposite of what he would ever do. And he finds a girlfriend, he gets a job, you know, everything works out for him. And I wasn't thinking of this, but when I went through a breakup a few months ago, I went I was in a dark space. And typically when I'm going through something challenging, I I had to look back on my life and say, what did I normally do? And which was normally I'm gonna spend a ton of time with friends. With that, probably more alcohol consumption. I'm gonna kind of let go of my core, what I call my my conscious living um activities that I do on a daily basis, and and I track those things so I can look back on a chart that I've carried for years, and I know look at how bad I was back then. And so I kind of did the George Costanza this time. I did the opposite. I spent a lot of time alone. I put alcohol completely out of my life. I worked, I really started working out of the eating better. I've always been a good eater, but I mean I just kind of took everything that was good to the next level reading, you know, journaling, exercise, you know, nutrition, and spending more time alone, which was the scariest damn thing I've ever done. It was scary to be alone, like not not physically alone necessarily, but emotionally alone, mentally alone, where I had to I had to stop and and really let the stench of my life catch up to me. And that was that was terrifying. But my god was it has it been rewarding? I I've never felt stronger in my life. Literally, I'm 58 years old, I've never felt stronger in multiple capacities. And it was just it was like that, it was right there. I had to try used to kind of trust myself a little bit. And so maybe whoever's going through a challenge, maybe look back at what you did before and just do the opposite. I'm not saying that's my advice, but it worked for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yeah, and I mean every situation's different, and I think it's good to just I I know I found it really helpful to look back, like and on some journals that I would only maintain when there was really crappy things happening in life, and just being like, okay, you went through that, like here, we're fresh on how that felt, and you got through that. So, like, I think the biggest um thing that just chills me out when I'm totally losing it is just saying to myself, it sucks now, but this is temporary. Like, this is temporary. And guess what? Like, so is when it's good. So when you're in something good, instead of being freaked out, it's gonna end, it's like just revel in it. Don't be be it it ultimately comes down to how do we get to being present?

unknown 24:45

Yeah.

Bad Dates, Good Data: Reframing Setbacks

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Because when we're present, we're at peace. And otherwise, we're just regretting things of the past or we're worried about the future. And that's like all the, you know, I've been recently studying universal laws, and I wasn't seeking it out, but it's just really cool as I've gotten into different circles. Um, as life has gone on, I've just I just follow what sounds interesting for me. And you know, I've engaged in different groups. There's this one group called Wayfinders. We go on these wack-adoo trips around to weird places around the world. I was in Laos last year. Like, when the hell else am I gonna go to Laos? And you go on these trips and they give you a packing list, and you don't know where you're staying, what you're doing, how many different places you're gonna stay, who's in the room with you. You know nothing. So it is like the ultimate um giving up control for like type A entrepreneurs. So it's all entrepreneurs, you don't talk about business, which is also super cool because it's the first time I've really gotten to know the people and not their business, like even months and months after the trip. But some were like, What do you do for a living, by the way? Like, I don't even know what the hell you do. Um, but it was so awesome because typically we go to these group meetups and it's the first question, and it doesn't come up at all. It was more like, so are you like, do you want to go to the pool or do you want to just like go meditate, or do you want like we're more talking about what are your interests and your hobbies and stuff like that, which is really neat. And um, I found as life has gone on, like it's just been really important and necessary also to maintain like healthy relationships with people that I've had forever and ever, but as I've evolved in different ways and they have to make new friends, and it's not to say like you replace your friends, but like to have different people that serve different parts of your life and your interests, I think it's just like a really healthy engagement, but it requires, and it was actually in Mel Robin's newest book, um, The Let Them Theory, and she there's a part that she talks about adult friendships, and I was just laughing listening to this because it's like suggesting, and I I do this all the time with certain mom friends, like I had met in my town when we had little babies, and you end up being default friends because your babies are the same age, and then as time goes on, you oftentimes find, okay, our kids aren't friends, so then we don't end up being friends, and we probably wouldn't be friends anyway. It's not bad, but there's other people that your kids aren't friends, they're not even the same age, but you recognize I think we have a lot in common, and it's it's almost like asking women out on dates. Um, and like, do you want to be friends? Do you want to go to a concert? But it requires someone doing that because until like I don't I don't know, your whole life up to a certain point, your friends are all just like put next to you, like you don't really go out of your way to make them, and it's college, high school, work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Like, think how many people their best friend was their roommate that they were randomly assigned to, or the person on their sports team. Um, that you're just put in a room with people that you're interested in. But there's like so many cool people in the world, and now with the way technology is, and even you and I, like, I like we we're totally just like, oh, I like your thing, I like your thing, I like your thing on social media. And I'm like, you want to get virtual coffee? You want to be friends? We like the same stuff. And it's like, and it's totally innocent and not creepy, but some people don't get it, and um, I think it's so fun when other people you find are like also open, but it requires just someone to initiate that, and then it's easy, you know. You just you just have to open your mouth though. And I've made like some of the best friends in the last, you know, I'm going through this really crappy stage in life, it's very unpleasant. Um, but I've also made some of like the best friendships in the last year that have like happened like pretty seamlessly, because I'm just in circles and in communities with people that we like the same stuff. So it's like I had to seek out those things and be engaging in the things I like to do, and then you meet more of those people. But it's uh yeah, it's it's just really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

I think one of the things we don't realize, especially with the way media portrays people, all media, um, that there are so many amazing people in this world. Like you we see the bad stuff on TV. And obviously, you know, if it's bleed what is it, if it's bleeding or whatever, it leads to it. It leads.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Friendships, Community, And Real Connection

SPEAKER_01 29:16

But I think, you know, I think I've done 163 shows on this podcast. We've only aired 158, um, but this is number 159. But uh that's the thing I've learned in four years of doing this is the people are amazing. And like you and I connecting, you're only like one step away from meeting an amazing person. And you have no idea, like up until that moment, you didn't even know they existed. And then either through social media or a group that you go to, whatever. And if you just put yourself out there a little bit and and talk to them, you're gonna find even people who you disagree with on things, you're gonna find ninety nine percent of the time maybe nine maybe ninety two percent of the time, you're gonna find an amazing human being on the other end of that. And that gives hope, I think. Like when you meet Meet new people and connect and build friendships and relationships. You know, I I just think there's something that it to me it has been the most optimistic um part of my exploration these last four years is that, oh my God, I we have nothing to worry about. Our world is filled with really cool people. Um we just have to get their stories. I like what you said earlier about and I and I wanted to bring this up. Um you when I asked you what or who inspired you, and you said the stories about it was a lot of people and their stories. And I think that's the key. When we learn other people's stories, I mean we there's always a connection. There's always something that they're going through that you did, or that you're going through something they went through, or there's some type of connection, tight or loose. And when you hear that, you realize how similar we all are in so many ways. We all cry, we all fart, we all laugh, we all stay in the shower. Everyone poops, everyone poops. You know, and we and when you get to know that person, you realize that they're not a facade, they're not a danger, they're not a threat, they're just people going through shit like we go through. And I I I think that is just I think there's something magical about just connecting with people. And that's you know, I was listening to a podcast while I was running this afternoon or this morning, and they talked about social media is overall a net positive. And you know, there's a lot of negative shit on social media, but the the net positive is we can connect with people from all over the globe and and get to know them, hear their stories, lit learn about their culture without traveling. Now, traveling is better, yes, and talking to them on the phone or face to face, much better, but at least it's a glimpse into lives across the planet. And I think that is really what we need more of. We need some of that, whether it's a loose or a tight connection, we just need more connection.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Yeah, well, and that's where I think like even when we talk to clients about um financial products and people ask, what do you think about this? I'm like, I don't think anything is bad. It's all about there's sometimes bad recommendations for people or there's bad uses of different things. And the same thing with social media, it's it's literally as recent as yesterday, talking to a friend about this who is like, I think Carolyn, you might want to take a pause. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And I found when I was in a really bad place, that was actually a very productive thing to do. And that's what I've been actually trying to do is make myself my own bespoke checklist of kind of how Carolyn works and in different situations, what's a good kind of go-to, so I don't have to think. That's like one of my favorite things is to create and edit and update different little checklists. So I'm like, oh, like written by me for me, so I don't have to remember. Like if my brain is not a computer and I remember nothing. And the more I remember, the less creative I actually can be. Because our brain is meant to be creative. Not we we have computers that can do the thinking, the remembering, the math for us. We just have to know when the computer's broken or recognized. That doesn't look right. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I I I think that the net positive is for sure. And so even like if you look at my social media in COVID, I started just randomly one day sharing the and through stories. I used to post a lot with my kids because my my siblings live in California, so they would get upset with me if I didn't post about their babies, about their nieces and nephews, um, their niece and nephews. But then it turned into I just started following anytime someone would post something positive or inspirational or just really goopy funny, like my social media is a combination of um puppies, babies, hot guys with great abs, um ingrown toenails. What else do I have on there? And a lot of inspirational stuff. But anytime someone posts something that I am drawn to and I'm not already following it, I just start following it. So I love in the same way I love how Pinterest does that with my interior design stuff. I just start creating my own algorithm. And you know, Facebook or Instagram will send me these ads, and I'm not gonna get into a freaking debate with people because I don't do the just so we're clear, Brian, I will never debate you on anything. I will have an open, honest conversation. I'm not looking to be right, I'm just curious about stuff. Like that's at the end of the day. You know what too I find, and it confuses the hell out of my team for sure. And I have to almost preface and remind them four times in the midst of conversation. I'm just brainstorming. Like sometimes I need to just hear the words said out loud, like out of my brain, to go, do I even believe that? Do I actually feel that way? And um, and often I'm like, I don't, I don't know, but that's something that I'm trying to like better understand, just so people know it's something I'm curious about. Um, but social media I think is something that um it's great to just figure out what are your boundaries with it, whether it's time, whether it's what you're choosing to watch. Um and in okay, so in COVID, I started sharing a lot of stories that were just the inspirational things, and I started getting from random people that I never knew were even looking at it. Because I was just trying to be helpful in some way of this is helping me, let me share it, and it might help someone else. I don't know. And then I stopped at some point and I was getting these messages from random people that are like, I so look forward to that. Like, is there a reason you stop? I'm like, oh, and I didn't feel obligated, but it's just nice to know, like, I'm just helping someone. And for me, like, what's next? I I don't know exactly how it comes to be, but that's like my unique gift. I go in rooms and people tell me there's something just about your energy. I keep getting it from all these different groups of people, unsolicited, random, like unexpected. And I'm like, so there's something there, and it's not about me, my ego, how can I be famous or known? I'm like, no, but if I can help to inspire, encourage as many people to positive action, like I I've I've done what I've I've been created to do. I think that's why I'm here.

Candor With Care: Team Culture

SPEAKER_01 36:19

So I would like to reiterate what you just said because I I want the audience to hear what you just said, because er so many people that I've met who I would say are successful in life, you being one of them, have said that repeatedly to me or on the sh on the podcast or in conversation. If you're out there to seek success or fame or to be noticed, it's gonna backfire most of the time. I and I know because I tried that and it's it backfires. When you really just say, I'm doing this, I'm I want to do this because I'm gonna help one person. Maybe I can make an impact on a small group of people's lives. When you focus on that, you stop chasing the go the golden eggs and you're focusing on the goose. And that makes all the difference. And I've heard that for 15 years after starting this business, maybe 20, and I didn't believe it. I I was chasing the golden eggs all the time, the success, the the recognition, you know, whatever it is, love, whatever. And it always eluded me. It always did. And then it's and when I said, okay, I want to do this for the right reasons, and I still fuck up. I mean, but I mean I messed up a year and a year ago when I started focusing so much on the podcast and how big it was getting that I lost passion for it. Then I shut it down for three months. Because I just said I l I I'm not doing it for the right reasons. Um and then when you but when you do it for the right reasons and you really want to try just try to help people, make connections, bit better someone's life, and it could be even better in your own life. Like, you know, do something good for yourself, take care of yourself more. All of a sudden, those golden eggs start popping up where you least expect them. And uh so I what you I think that was profound what you said. I want to make sure the audience hears that right there.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Um Yeah, what you said, that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Okay, we I do want to talk about this idea of being unapologetic and kind of unfiltered. Because what the way you explained it at the beginning of the of the of the interview here, the conversation, was how I always thought of myself as being unfiltered or whatever, you know. I I think we called it um radical honesty back in the day. And I would just say about anything to anybody. And there was a badge of honor back then for in the when I was in the corporate world or when I was, you know, when I was with uh certain group of American Express back in there, American American Express back in the day. And I realized 10 years later that it was completely wrong. Like I was just saying what I want. I get kudos for it. So I can you talk about that a little bit? How do you use that for how do you carry the title unapologetic and unfiltered?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

So it's something I've been told my whole life, not like literally with those words, um, but I've always just kind of done my own thing. Um, and people say you're supposed to do this, or like even at school, it's my friends are going to apply for these jobs in New York. And I I was like, that just doesn't sound exciting to me. So I think I think for me it was always resonant, resonant to follow what was exciting me.

unknown 39:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Um, whether I understood how it would work or what the path was. I was like, I'm just gonna try it, and until it's not exciting or doesn't feel authentic to me, like I I I'm gonna just keep doing it. And that's how I got into the career. I mean, I was interviewing, it was America Express Financial at the time. I was like, I don't know anything about this, but like my parents told me I have to get a job, so I'm just gonna go start interviewing at places. And I bumped into a friend's sister's husband, and he's like, Carolyn, what are you doing here? I'm like, I don't know. You tell me about this job. And um, it just it really excited me that they're like, you can have unlimited income and run your own business and work like a dog for like five to eight years and then live the rest of your life like a king and queen. And I was like, Well, that sounds cool. And then my friend Pete, he was like, Listen, and if you don't like it, he like walked me in his office for an hour and he got some commission for getting me to say yes. But but he was, I believe, because he's still in the business too. And I believe what he was saying he meant that he's like, if you don't like it, you'll be 23 and you'll do something else. And if you do like it and you succeed in it, it will change your whole life. And I was like, that sounds reasonable. Let's go. And my parents were like, This is crazy. You're not gonna, you you know, what what are you doing? You don't even know how this works. And I was like, but I'll figure it out. And what I see now is, and it's like pretty fucking wild when you witness in all businesses when you start to see there's some people that are crazy successful that aren't remotely in the traditional sense smart, they're not necessarily nice, honorable. There's like all different shapes and sizes. So, what I think is like really important and necessary is to gauge for yourself how do you yourself define success in a way that literally lights you up inside, and that changes as your life changes. Like, I have very different visions of my future before I was married, before I had kids. Now that I've had a taste of all this stuff, it's like, you know, again, we're talking about the cars. I'm like, I could buy anything I want. I don't care about that. Yeah, but like, but but I do I do like to have the means that I can do whatever the hell I want when I want. I was very motivated to create a self-managing company, which I did successfully create. Um uh that has helped a lot when I needed to step back the summer and still and take some space to just honor what my family needs as I'm figuring out this next chapter of life. But it's not um, it's like it's kind of like even when we talk with clients about the the reasons you have different products, in particular, like your insurance. And we talk about with clients that they're life insurance, like you may be getting this now for this purpose, and then once you get married, it serves that purpose, then once you have kids and have a house, it's serving that purpose. And then even when the kids are out of the house, it serves a different purpose, but it's the same product. So I think it's I'd rather have more tools in the toolbox than less, but I don't want to have a tool that's just taking up space and is heavy, and so I'm finding I'm doing like a huge purge of just where I spend time, what I say yes to, because there's so much I do want to say yes to. And when you start to actually look at your calendar and encoded, that became really clear. You see, like your calendar represents what you're prioritizing, and we often create our own prisons for ourselves. Um, I was I remember when the kids were little, I felt like I was supposed to like run the PTO, and I hated it. Me and this other mom, this other advisor did it, and we would just crush line and like plan things and then promise ourselves like you will we will never volunteer for this again. You'll just write the check, like never again. And um, it's like, but there's someone that loves to do that, so I think, and it's a Dan Sullivanism about talking about your unique ability. He was my first coach and strategic coach, which was like really cool to have him as a direct coach. And um flipping phenomenal and introduced me, and I like got I dove in deeper to understand more of just my unique gifts, and none of them really had to do with being a financial advisor, it was more just about being a person that inspires confidence, encourages positive action. Um, and yeah, you do that as an advisor, but that wasn't like what like I'm very good at that, but my unique ability that I could do in my sleep without even paying me is doing it more broadly. So that's when I became inspired to really create my self-managing company when I understand, when I understood I had a bigger purpose that I believe is like my God-given like gifts, um, God, the universe, whatever the hell you want to call it. I don't care. And frankly, I don't even know what I believe anymore. I don't know. But um, but what I knew was that I don't want to do this anymore, which I've been doing for 18 years. But by the way, Carolyn, why are you apologizing about that? Like, who the hell stays in the same job for 40 odd years? Um, and that resonated with clients. And I was like, but I but I I take the the promises I've made to you very seriously, and I'm continuing to build out a team of people that are excited to have these conversations and are flipping awesome at them. And frankly, I believe with me in these other positions within our company, I'll be able to make it even better.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Yeah.

Boundaries, Calendars, And Saying No

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Because there's so much stuff that isn't happening because I'm the person that would do it or make it happen and make it real. And what I found was that it just becomes a total win-win-win for everyone. There's no downside because you never want someone doing something that they're not excited to do. You're just not gonna get as good of a result, or you'll end up feeling bad if you're like, oh, they did that, but they hated doing that. So when it comes to unapologetic, I it's more about like what is it that you personally want for yourself? Not I'm gonna be unapologetic of where I want my kid to go to school or what team they make. No, no, no, no, no. Like when I talk about it, I'm talking about what is it that inside your gut, your heart, your soul, your spirit feels real and alive. And I think often you can figure that out by also seeing the opposite. When when when you witness the opposite, and then you take it from that negative to the positive, and often that ends up being your answer. And that also ties back to for me, I talk a lot about, and I'm actually starting to write about like your own discovery to your your own bespoke core values, not what your teachers, your parents, your church, your friends, your community says is supposed to be important and the most important things to you, but just what is for you, like your compass to help you make good decisions to lead your authentic life. And that said, that doesn't mean fuck everybody else. That's not what that means. Um, and in our team, we talk about having open and honest conversations, but it's candor with care. So pair that with, you know, golden rule, which is another one of my team's values. So open, honest conversations paired with golden rule is candor with care. And that's where I look, I'm I'm trying to continue to be better because I'm not looking to hurt someone in the midst of being honest with myself. Um, but you have one life, and I just think it's a real waste if you live it on someone else's terms. I also think the biggest mistake people make, and Dan Sullivan shared this, is not that your goal is too big, but your time frame's too small.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Is typically the problem.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Well, I you know, I I like what you said with the the candor with care comment. Um because I think w w one of the things I tell people is when you associate with other people, whether it's in a team, whether it's a friend group, you know, family sometimes you can't really pick your family, but when you're picking and choosing who you associate with, you know, because I talk a lot about toxic people and nourishing people and toxic and nourishing behaviors in ourselves as well. And people say, Well, how do you determine whether someone's toxic or nourishing? Because it they can a toxic person or behavior can be very uh it can be camouflaged very well. And I said, Well, think about this. If you can if you have three qualities in a relationship, professional or personal, and if you have these three, number one, do you the both of you celebrate each other's successes together? You're l authentically happy when something good happens to the other. That's number one, so celebrate. Number two, support. Do you support each other when the shit hits the fan, when things aren't going well for one or the other? How supportive are you to each other? And the third one is challenge. How well do you challenge each other when the other person's doing something stupid? You know, and that's kind of that candor that support and celebr or I'm sorry, it's that um uh care that we support and celebrate, but that candor when there's challenges challenges to be made. Um and I think so. I think that's a good way to kind of um summarize a pretty damn good solid personality. Candor with care. Because a lot of people have one or the other. Most people have one or the other.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

Yes. Yes. I think um yeah, it really is the extreme. And and you see a lot with women, especially, the the care part, but they don't say what they actually mean. Right. And sometimes they themselves don't even know it. So again, I like I literally when I'm very challenged with something, will have a conversation with myself in the mirror. I'll sometimes just talk openly the free form to chat GPT. And I'm like, can you give me a short version of what the hell I'm actually trying to say here? And that's been an incredible filter for me. Um, but I think, and then there's the other side that I think we're we're all pretty aware of, or we witness the like, oh my god, will they shut up? Like they'll just say anything. And I I I'd like to think I probably have evolved to more candor with hair as opposed to just saying anything. I think that's part of just growing up or not even growing up. Like, I I'm seeking to continually be more self-aware. When I think of growth, I think self-awareness is one of the most like you can't uh not you, but anyone. I think there's I can't think of something someone would say to me that would surprise me, even if it's like not a nice thing. Someone could say, like, you're really blah blah blah. And I'd be like, Well, screw you, but I know. Um, but it's just about uh, and then our team will actually say instead of being just boom awkward, we'll literally say, Hey, permission to be open and honest here for a second, like I'm gonna fumble around here. I don't even know what I'm saying. And it's like, yep, carry on. But it takes a lot of practice with people, yeah, um, to build trust, to understand. Um, like if you witness me and my business partner Jen having a meeting, because we're both very passionate. We carry, we we um hold very simple, we hold the same values within our company. We have different values as people, but we honor and respect each other's. But if you witnessed us in a meeting, you'd think we're fighting.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

I remember you saying that.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Yeah, and I think that's where, but we've had we've had so much practice. It didn't start like that. Like we've grown to trust each other that we understand the other isn't gonna take it personally or think it's a low blow. And that just take that takes experiences. Um for me, I think one of the things that's been helpful when it comes to like your expectation, like you know, people are disappointed when their expectations or their experience falls below their expectations of something. And I think um my girlfriend and I were talking about this recently that there's this nuance between the word uh for me, I say the difference between like my people, like are you my people? Like you're one of my people. Like we speak the same language, we understand each other, we're new friends, but it's like nah. Like I don't have to, I I know I could say anything, and we're gonna try to understand one another, and we kind of see the world in a similar way.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Exactly.

Core Values As Your Compass

SPEAKER_02 51:37

But then and there's but there's I think the word friend is really confusing. Um, and I'm not saying don't use it, but I think there's hundreds of people that we would probably call our friends are like we're friendly, blah blah blah. But then you go through like shit hitting the fan, and 99% of them you couldn't actually count on, but if you expected to, and that was your expectation, you're gonna be greatly disappointed. So one of my uh verbiage changes with my own core values that I came to, and ChatGPT helped me to kind of come up with some words that resonated, was one of my core values is that my people are my power. So identifying like who are like just like when I'm kind of doing my own filter, like, are they my people? So if someone kind of like lets me down, I'm like, but are they my people? And if they're not, it's like, well, you know, you kind of can't you just can't hold the same expectation of certain people in my divorce, in my, you know, miscarrying a baby, and um just like crappy life experiences. Um, it's also important to just identify like what you what you do and should or shouldn't necessarily expect of people, or what's your your own personal um measure of that?

SPEAKER_01 52:58

I like the one of the things I did I don't know how many years ago, five, six years ago, maybe, is I I'm a big fan of the food versus poison, nourishing versus toxic. I do a lot of coaching on the subject I have for 29, 28 years now. And I never thought well, here's how it worked. I was I I I have a group of friends, uh I did, and one of my friends who's kind of in that group, but really was more of a uh on the fringe of the group more, but he and I are super close, we think alike, we you know, we have a lot of really in-depth conversations, and he said, I don't understand. You talk about this food it must have been in the last four years, because I did a podcast on it, so it must have been since I've started the podcast. You talk about food and poison, Brian, and how it's important to make sure you're surrounding yourself with nourishing people and you yourself are nourishing. Yet you accept this behavior in your life. So what I did is, so I guess it must have been three and a half, four years ago, I put together, and I carry it with me in my in my binder that I carry everywhere I go, a list of three columns nourishing slash food, question mark in the middle, and toxic slash poison. And I literally have a the list of the nourishing people in my life. I have a list of people I don't know yet, like I'm just I don't know, I don't know people well enough, or sometimes they kind of vacillate, and then I have a list of toxic people. And it's based on experience and the years of experience. Really, it's based on when I walk away from them in a conversation or text or face-to-face or whatever phone call, how do I feel? Do I feel like a better person or a lesser person? And um and what I do now is I have a I can only connect proactively with the nourishing people. And what I have found in doing that is number one, the relationships have just in just solidified. And I've met more people like that because now I only accept that type in my life. And I don't mean that I'm gonna shun people if they don't meet a certain criteria. It's it's it's more just where I'm gonna allocate my resources, which is my time and energy.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Oh, it's your time. That's exactly it. Well, and that's where I think there's just so many things people do out of obligation. Even um, you know, in financial services, there's these different conferences, and sometimes I'm just like, why am I going to this? And I finally just started saying no. Or there's certain groups that people would ask to be a part, ask me to be in, and I'm like, I I hate to sound like so selfish, but I'm like, I don't really know what I'm gonna get out of this. Like I I know what I can bring to it, but um no, I don't think that sounds exciting. And again, I I just use the simple brometer of like, does this sound exciting?

SPEAKER_03 55:38

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

And if it doesn't, I'm just like, no, thanks. I don't think it's a good fit. Someone asked me recently to be on like the it was some finance committee in our town, and they're like, it's a good, it's a good service, and you would be so great at it. I'm like, I'm sure, but it doesn't sound that fun to me. And the guy said, Well, don't you sometimes have to do things you don't like? And I'm like, no. I'm like, I uh uh no, I've actually created an experience so I don't because there's someone in Sullivanism that loves doing the thing that you hate. So why the hell would you continue doing the thing you hate? Like, frankly, it's kind of selfish because there's someone that really actually wants to do that thing. So let them do it. Go find them. That's your job. Go find them.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

Do not how. Do you think that holds true when you're younger in a career? Because I can I would you were talking, I remember thinking, I remember I was thinking, I remember I remember doing cold calling out of the yellow pages and the and the white pages back in the day. I hated every second of that. I'm glad I did it because it gave me some thick skin. But I I but I think there's a point where you start to pay every every year you pay more dues, so to speak, into the universe. And it's like at a certain point, yeah, it's like I don't know if that it's not interesting, what you said exciting or interesting. No way, man. It's not worth it. One thing I'm known for is and I it pisses people off and it's not a good quality, but I don't commit to anything. I really don't. I'm very non- Oh my god, I'm the same.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

It's it's like tentative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Don't invite me to a wedding six months in advance because I'll decide the week of. And if I said yes, I still might not show up. I might not go to a graduation, even though I said yes six months. So I just stopped saying yes. I don't RSVP for anything, unless it's immediate family, of course. I don't say yes. And you want to would you want to do something Friday? Check with me Friday. Because I don't know how I'm gonna feel.

Social Media, Algorithms, And Agency

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Again, but that's also where it like depends on like the level of your people. Right, exactly. Yeah, one of my best friggin' friends and who I haven't seen, I'm like, yes, I don't care what the hell we're doing. Like, we have that date in common, yes, we're just gonna do something. I don't care. But I just got back from Jackson Hole with two girlfriends, and two of them had never met before, and I like connected them as girlfriends. It was so funny because we've been on this like chat for six months and whatever. It was hilarious. Because I was like, oh, right, you guys have never met. But we the first night just made a list of like this sounds fun, and then just throughout the weekend, and you know, between the three of us, there's five kids that we didn't have. So every anything when you don't have your kids with you is just easier. So we were like, let's just wing it, we can never do this. But also, like for me, it's such a gift to be able to practice spontaneity because I feel like that got lost as life went on, or like the more I said yes to things, there was less free time to even have the ability to say yes without canceling on someone last minute. So it's also nice, I find, to not overcommit because you leave no room for spontaneity and adventure. And like I miss, I started missing that, and it was my own fault. Again, we create our own prisons, it's like generally our own fault. But but getting back to that earlier in your career, I think it's a huge disservice to yourself to think that you just know yourself. I'm like, listen, 22-year-old, you friggin' don't. Because what you what you studied in school and what you actually do in your job and and or in your entrepreneurial endeavor and you're creating something for yourself, and every person that you work for or team that you work in, an office that you're in, is gonna be apples and oranges. So, like, until you've had enough experiences, like it doesn't even make sense. And frankly, I think like some of the best times I've learned what I liked was again from trial and error and learning what I didn't like. Like, I remember in college I did an um internship for this event um company because I love to go into parties. Oh, it's right. Maybe I'll love planning parties. Well, come to find out, I love to attend. I hate to plan. Good to know. Good data.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

I've lost a couple of girlfriends because I'm a bad planner in a non committer of the event. So it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Well, and I yeah, and it's just figuring out like what is the it doesn't have to be all or none. I'm a very all or none person. Um, I'm not judging. It. I'm very much that, but it's just figuring out what matters and what doesn't. I think that's the biggest thing. It's not about getting it perfect. Like you may have your ideal work week and your ideal work plan, but it's what are the things that have to happen no matter what? And just make sure that happens and you can't screw it up. Like that's it. That's like the only thing that actually matters. And then when you have a great week, you can refer to your ideal. So especially when I've been feeling kind of junky in the last year, I'm just clear what has to happen no matter what. Let me make sure to do that. Give myself some grace. The dog has been flipping great because it's like you need to take some walks, Carolyn. The dog needs to walk, or you know, it's your fault when he pees on the floor because you didn't take the thing out for four hours and he's a puppy. Um, but that has just calms my nervous system. Oh my god. And I'm not saying it's for everybody, but it's like figure out what works for you, like your own little formula. Um, and when something's really exciting, like don't ignore it, like create space for it. It's just like when you, you know, I move to a much smaller place. It's a silly analogy, but it's it's it's or if you have a smaller handbag, like you have to make some decisions. If you have a huge bag or you are traveling in your car versus an airplane, you can throw more shit in the car than you know what to do with. But when you have just a carry-on, you're only gonna bring the essentials and or the things that you really love. And what you quickly find out is like you have way more crap than you need, and you say yes to way more things than you actually want to. And there's there's actually a lot fewer people that really light you up inside and just focus on the good. Like, don't let the bad things, the bad experiences, the bad people, the bad 10 seconds of your day, like consume all of the otherwise good things. And that doesn't mean you have to be like toxic positivity, convincing yourself otherwise, but it's like don't focus on what is good, and that's actually how we kick off every team meeting. That's how I try to start conversation with my kids of what happened to me that was good, or like fun, or what's just good in life. Sometimes it's as simple as, and it gives you so much information about people when they either have something to celebrate that they're really psyched to celebrate and share. And sometimes they'll you'll find that they have a really hard time finding something, and that in itself gives you a lot of information of like just how you can support them or that you may want to keep an eye on them. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

I heard a thing that you'd you'll con you would relate to. Um, I've heard this a few times in the last few months. I haven't used it yet, though. Is never say how are you when you are when you come up when you're talking with somebody. Ask them what exciting thing are you working on in your life? Totally different. And I'm like, that's gotta work. Because how are you? You know, good. How are you? Good. Family's growing, yep. My family's getting they get the bullshit stuff that nobody cares about.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Weather, weather, baseball, basketball, football, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

That right there ignites a spirit, it ignites the soul when you somebody is thinking, what exciting thing am I working on? Then it maybe they talk about their family, maybe like myself, who just had his fifth grandchild uh last Friday. I shout out to Little Otto 1222 last Friday. Um but so maybe that is what's exciting right now. So that that would be my answer right now. But it doesn't it it it gives that person an opportunity to really think what's po exciting usually means positive. You know, you're not gonna say exciting in my life, well I'm going through a divorce. No, you're probably gonna bypass that statement. You're gonna say, Oh, I'm working the business, you know, we're working on these new cool things in the business, or whatever. You know, I just took a trip to where'd you go, Jackson Hole? Yeah. Did you run into an avalanche by the way?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

No, but I was wearing fluorescent or I was safe. I had my fluorescent orange puppy outfit and boots, and I worked to the dog park today, and my ladies of the fields were like, Okay, you have arrived. You have nothing arrived.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

That that that stands out, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Yeah, but I will not be lost in an episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

No, you won't. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

I saw you loved or hated. Loved or hated, never ignored, Brian.

Make It Useful: Helpful Or Harmful Filter

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

Oh, that's a great that might be the title for our podcast. I I want to comment on a I I pulled up on my iPad, I have it here, your meme that you posted today on. I don't know if it was Facebook or Instagram, I don't know. Maybe it's your story. And it said, My five-year plan live so fully that my future self never has to wonder what if.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Dude, that's good. That kind of sums you up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Yeah. Yeah. And it's something, you know, I have to keep reminding myself too. And I think it's um uh as much as there's all this stuff I'm exciting, excited about, there's then this balance of you'll speed up if you slow down a little bit. And it's so counterintuitive, but the more I've leaned into that, you can just be more intentional and present to that voice that's inside of you that's saying like yes, or like no. Like I know you think it might be a good idea, but um, and you have the answer. Like, you have the answer. So there's a trip like with my crazy wayfinders people that I went to Wow's last year for two weeks, and uh coming up, I was signed up for a trip to Patagonia, and you know, it's my kids, it's their first holidays with all this cluster of divorce stuff, and I'm the house that's not as familiar for them, and just trying to come up with structure with my student to be ex, and it was just clunky. And and in my gut, I was like, I don't know if I should go. And no one was saying this to me, but it kept coming at me. And once I made a decision, I was just at peace. I was like, Oh, like it was already there, I just wasn't giving it any space. I actually I stopped drinking, I think I told you this. I stopped drinking four years ago. Yeah, and thankfully it was my idea, but my business partner was like, Carolyn, I was about to say something to you. I would have been so pissed if it was someone else's idea, it had to be my idea. Um, but it was something that had been bothering me for years, and I had been curious about what would life be like because that was part of my identity was drinking. It's part of my it was a big thing, it was just the habit.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

Um, and but once I made a decision, and when you 100% 100% commit to anything, it's easy because your decision is the mate, there's nothing else to think about. So whether it's, you know, some people they're runners and you look at them and you're like, look at these crazy people. They get up at five o'clock every morning and they run like 10 miles, but they don't think about it. They don't it's not like I don't know if today I'm gonna do it. It's just what they do. Um, other people, again, just some things that you're not gonna do. Or um, like for me, it was drinking. And once I stopped and people like, do you miss it? Honestly, no. I still do the same crazy stuff. I'm still as insane as I was when I was drunk. But now I'm not gonna get in trouble when I'm driving, and I can drive you too. You're welcome. Um I just saved you your Uber fare.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:01

I went out with my son and his friends two weeks ago on a Saturday. Well, I went to his house to watch the Michigan football game. We couldn't get it on his projection in his garage, so we're like, let's just go to the bar, we'll watch it. And I drank, we literally we were I was here at noon. I ended up we ended up coming home around 10. And then his friends kind of followed us home, and then I ended up going to bed. So for 10 hours, I drank, I think it was at least 14, probably 15 non-alcoholic beers. Those um, I forget what the thing is.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

I thought you were saying you were drinking, and I was like, Brian, you sure you want to say this in your podcast?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Oh, I would talk about it if it was beer. I'm like, oh my god, where am I going with this? But what I learned though was I had a lot of fun. Like it was fun. Like I felt good. Obviously, the next day I got up early. I went for a uh went for a walk, and then I came back and I went for a hike later on. I mean, I felt great. And but it was like no, I don't I don't miss it. But it's only I've only been in a couple of meals. But I mean, I I'm not like totally done drinking. I don't think I'll have a few beers here and there, I'm sure. Um, I did after my son grandson was born because the middle aim is named after me. So um I had a little celebration, but I'm like, that doesn't feel good. That doesn't feel natural anymore.

Quitting Alcohol, Gaining Clarity

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

And teach his own. It's like whatever works for you. Like it's it if I could, and I did, I tried for me because I really enjoyed it. I love being buzzed, being drunk, I love it. But I can't just have two drinks, and I don't even really feel much after two drinks, so it just quickly goes from all to none and or none to all. And I'm like, this is so I found another filter that I really love when I'm stuck. I try to come up with simple things to fall back on. And um, it was originally my brother that introduced it to me by way it was he was talking about it more in the context of from marketing and your messaging like, might it be helpful or may it be harmful? And so I started to just think about different decisions I made, and by no means does this mean, or am I trying to suggest I make the perfect decisions? It's more of like how can I be more intentional? And and that's where I was I started just thinking, might this be helpful or may it be harmful? And with booze, I'm like for me, never is this helpful. Like, never have I ever done something better when I'm drunk, and I just take it to another level, so it just doesn't serve me, it doesn't work for me. But the cool thing was it it doesn't uh oftentimes people associate giving something up with giving something up, and I'm like, no, no, no, like I gained so much, including not risking relationships, like possible dangerous situations. I should be dead, like the dumb stuff we do in college, never mind beyond. And like as our professional career really took off, my business partner when she was almost gonna branch me, she's like, You could blow up the whole thing by doing something really stupid. And I'm like, Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

Well, that's what makes successful people successful is that kind of that edgy mentality, and it can be used for a lot of good, but it can also it can it can you can get you it can create a dark side that can really be damaging.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Yeah, well, and again, it's just like one bad thing, and never was never am I am I giving up some great opportunity. Like, in fact, like it's more it's more acceptable if I want to do something really late and I was out at some crazy, like I'm what am I like 22 going out at this industrial party in the middle of Toronto till four in the morning. I'm like, who am I? But I'm dead sober, so I'm like, ugh. Whereas if I'm should face, like that's a really dangerous situation to put myself in.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

It really is, it really is. It's I think it's a little more dangerous for women.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Um for sure, but in our business, and to be fair, in our business, like it stinks, but part of my message to younger women sometimes, I'm like, it sends a message if you're out at certain hours, and you can say it's unfair or whatever, but it is what it is, it is what it is. But I'm like, honestly, I if you're sober, you're just gonna be tired and you'll want to go to bed. So you won't want to be out anyways. But uh, I can't believe the stuff I used to do, and I was able to do it, but everything is clear for me. Um, and I feel things more. I found that I was probably using drinking at a certain point for numbing of a lot of things I didn't want to feel. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Well, that's the thing is when you stop and you like the I used the phrase earlier, which was a phrase of my good friend Kevin in college, and he he and I were on the same team together, we were also roommates. Um, and we would draw, we would pedal our bikes to this thing called the I think it was called the dams or something. It was a kind of a some rapids. And I remember one time him sitting out there, and he and I were both pretty crazy on the team, and and um I was kind of a violent guy, he wasn't, but we both got crazy at parties and stuff. And he said, You and I are running so fast in our younger life here in college because his quote was, We're afraid if we stop, the stench of our lives will catch up with us. And I always carried that quote. I used it earlier before we at the beginning of our conversation. I think that, you know, and I think that's where alcohol comes in for a lot of people. It's you don't have to let the stench of life catch up to you. Even if it does, you don't notice it, you don't sense it. But when you sit there and sit in it and relish and kind of wallow in it a little bit, then maybe even relish in it later on, you realize, okay, this isn't so bad. And then all of a sudden there's a turning point. I told a friend of mine who drinks pretty quite often, I said, if you just go three days without alcohol, the third day things look prettier. The colors are more vibrant. And it literally happened. And because I'd go long periods without drinking, and then I'd go a week and I'd have a f several drinks, and I'd go another three weeks. You know, I did that, and um, and I'd say a third day by like Tuesday, I feel great. Like I might I'm colors are prettier, I can smell better, I feel great in the morning, I'm more productive.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

I'm like, why I mean you literally sleep in ways that you physiologically like aren't capable of sleeping and alcohols in your system. Like, there's so many, there's so many reasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

Because it processes the bot the sugar later on in the in the night, and that's when you wake up.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

All the things, but but honestly, how I ended up finally getting to it was in the midst of it was 2021. It's like you know, year two of COVID, and that year, because my husband and I are just freaking crazy, and we had done eight real estate transactions, including two reverse 1031 exchanges, bought a financial advice practice, we had got renovated our house, we had moved by I was like, oh boy. And I was looking at it and I'm going, there's no room for error. Like, we can't mess any of this up. And it was like 24-7. And so even we were talking before from a positive sense of like how do we create room for good? It was like, I don't have time to be hungover, sleep deprived, drinking like an asshole, when I should be hanging out with my kids or sleeping, or I don't know, or doing one of these real estate transactions that I can't delegate to someone else. And it was like, no, I just just by you know process of elimination was like this doesn't fit. But also recognizing you've been kind of annoyed about this for a while, Carolyn. Maybe, and it was funny. I I initially was like, That's it, I'm done with drinking. And I read this book that was excellent for women, especially um This naked mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

I read that, yeah. I I l I actually I listened to that on audio, like me too.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too. And she kept talking, and I'm like, Oh, damn it, that's what I do too. Oh, I know. Of like, you're gonna try for a month or you're gonna make rules. And one of my rules was like, oh yeah, Tim, one of my rules, I saw my husband, I'm like, so one of my rules is I can't drink alone, and the kids don't count. So, and then I'd be like, So could we have a glass of wine? He's like, I don't really want to drink today. I'm like, But don't you want a glass of wine? He's like, Okay. Because I had I couldn't be drinking by myself, and um, but you make all these rules and they're stupid. And finally, it's like, this is exhausting. Like, this is stupid. What am I doing? So then I just I realized after a week, like, oh, I haven't drank for a week. I think I'm done. And I told one of my friends, I think I said I'm done forever. And um she's like, Well, Carolyn, that's dream. Um, what if you just decide to quit for the quarter and see how it goes? I'm like, Oh, I think that's a good idea. And then after the quarter, I was like, why would I go back? Like, I don't miss it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

This is stupid. You don't hear of anybody who quit drink. My brother quit cold turkey, I'm gonna say 13 years ago, and he was a heavy drinker. Um, and he quit, and I have just been able, he's my older brother by 10 years, and I've done I've just watched him become the man he always was when he was younger, and then when he was always destined to be as a as a as a fiance, as a father, as a as a grandfather, as a son, as a brother to me, as an uncle, just as in a business person. I just he's just a completely different human being. It's a big inspiration um for a lot of people just to watch. He just stopped one day, and I really didn't think he'd be able to. He just said, No, I'm done.

Unique Ability And Self-Managing Companies

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

And well, and we're talking about alcohol right now, but I think this is like a great like inventory for people to take for themselves of like what is something I'm doing that's just like it's just an honest question that you can just ask yourself. You don't have to talk about it out loud of just what is something I'm maybe doing um that I don't realize has become a habit that's kind of captured me, that's something that probably isn't actually serving me. So that helpful, harmful, it's like actually not helpful. It might be harmful, even if it isn't every day harmful. And sometimes that's overworking, sometimes it's overworking out, like just you're obsessed with is there something you're obsessed with? Is it it could be social media? And again, I'm not saying it from a place of judgment. I I find that I just constantly use this filter and it helps me call me out on my own shit when I'm finally ready to do something about it. Because sometimes you're just not ready, and that's that's like okay. But I find like if I keep coming back to these between knowing my core values, knowing my people, because my people are who I listen to. Because I know to your point, they give a shit about my success and my happiness and my they're cheering me on, and they want to help me, and they know I'll do the same for them. So I know when I hear it from them, there's no filter.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

So um yeah, so I just these little, these little rules of thumb uh that like it's not like oh I read it and it just made sense. It's like as life went on, I just found these little tools in my toolbox that I keep coming back to. But the biggest thing for me for sure has been my own discovery to my core values because then I know it's authentic to me. Um, it's not someone else told me it's what you're supposed to do. I'm like, no, I know and I am living in this way, I feel alive and human and like one, like I feel present and feel like this is why I was created to be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Your highest level, your highest potential. I call it the true peak identity. You know, and I do want to, before I wrap up, I do want to, again, I'm gonna talk to the audience directly of what Carolyn just said is so crucial. Your uh whatever you might be holding on to that's m didn't isn't serving you right now. Maybe it's alcohol, maybe it's drugs, maybe it's addiction to exercise, maybe it's a food addiction. I don't know what it is. Um whatever it is, take a good look at that. Give yourself a good self-audit and ask yourself, is this currently serving my highest potential? Because it it can sometimes the thing that destroys us most is the thing we did yesterday that actually worked for us yesterday. It could be things that really were good for you at one point in time and no longer are. So don't take the word alcohol out of that, our conversation, if that's not your your vice or your your challenge, and put anything in there. It could be love, it could be, you know, the obsession, I mean, it could be self-de or uh what do you call it, dependency, you know. So all right, my friend. Give us one last nugget. Could you just throw I I mean I stopped taking notes because I'm gonna go back and listen to it. I'll get the I'm gonna print out the transcripts, is what I'm gonna do after I listen to it again. What's a good nugget you want to leave the bamboo pack with?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:19

Oh man. Something new.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

I said I could ask you anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:23

I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:24

Shoot. Shoot, shoot, let's think. I mean, I just I I again I keep coming back to so much, I'll say it again, I tattooed it on my arm so I can't escape it. Know what it is that you want to be, that you are, not you wanna be, that you just are unapologetic about, like that you want for yourself, that you desire, that you don't deny yourself your dream and your like your real human desire, whether it's in relationships, in your work, and your where you live and how you spend your time, it doesn't mean you are or aren't um entitled to it or deserving or undeserving, but like know what the heck it is that's really important to you because it's gonna be your guiding light of how you start to make other decisions, goals, et cetera, that you know are authentic to you. And as you get more clarity, start sharing it with your people. They're gonna give you different ideas, resources, introductions. Um, don't try to do it all yourself. But the first step start is with just asking yourself the questions. Sometimes it's in the mirror, chat GPT, your journal, whatever it is. It's a lot of the stuff that since you've been a little kid that you've just been like, that maybe you forgot in the shooting of adulthood that everyone else has been telling you to do. Um, and I think that's a huge part that comes like as people like start to approach the second mountain of their life that they've had this incredible financial success and accolades, etc. It's like in the second mountain, it's like you start to realize like, oh, I haven't even really started my real life yet. Like I feel a lot like a teenager right now. Um which is really refreshing, also kind of scary, but it's like, well, I'm a teenager, but I actually have money and like I know I kind of know some of the wisdom, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

You got some experience behind you and some wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:24

And so do my people. And uh yeah, so I I think that's like that's my best takeaway I can give to anyone in any context because it applies to your life, your business, you name it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

I think it's the perfect last hunt little nugget. And I gotta tell you anyway, I like you.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

I'm perfect, Brian. I know you're awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

You are. I'm so glad we're we're we're depending on the book. I know this is so fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:46

I'm so happy I reached out to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Yeah, that's the thing I I like when I can tell if a podcast is doing well is am I having fun? Am I enjoying it? Yeah, you know, and that's true 99% of the time. The podcast does well if it just it's an authentic conversation between two people who are just trying to who have some experience behind them, some wisdom, some some road behind them, but are still always looking for what's next. What can we do better? How can we serve others? How can we make connections? I mean, whatever it is. So hey, can you stand a little bit after that?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:16

It's for another day. I have to say, it's for another day, but I can't stress enough. There's so many of our friends, our colleagues, people we know, and they're just like podcast junkies, but they listen, listen, listen. Like, if you don't execute something, it doesn't matter how much you listen to it. Exactly. You gotta do something. And just start with just start with one thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

It's like every book you read, every podcast, or every speech you hear, watch, every talk, TED talk. Just take one thing out of it and write it down. Like put a little journal and like, okay, I got this out of that. I mean, there are I read a lot of books, and there's some books I get one lesson or one learning out of, but you know, it's worth it. It's one thing that may I may or may not use, but I'm I'll I'll try to implement and see if it works, you know. So my friend, can you stand for a few minutes after we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Oh awesome. All right, I can't say this enough. I mean, I really enjoyed this, Carolyn. I know you're busy, and I'm so glad grateful when I asked you in our our coffee virtual coffee, virtual coffee, yeah, if you'd come on and you said yes right away. So it's been an honor, and I'm so looking forward to continuing to get to know you and developing this friendship because you are one of my people.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

We're each other's people. We stick together.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:26

All right. Thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:27

Thanks, Brian.

Redefining “My People” And Expectations

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

You're welcome. Everyone, thank you for tuning in. I mean, I'm gonna ask you, I know this one's gonna this podcast is gonna strike a lot of people in a very positive way. Um, so I'd like you to do this. I'd like you to listen to it. And then I'd like you to share it with three people, please. And smash that like button. Please rate and review us. Tell me how I'm doing, let me know if I'm sucking or if I'm doing well on this and what I can improve on. I might not listen, but I mean I'm actually I probably might not even read it, but I shouldn't say that. I will read it. Um and again, thank you for tuning in. I know everybody out there is busy. We appreciate the time you get you've given to us. I'll see you next week. Same time, same place. In the meantime, please get out there and strive to give it and be your best. Show love and respect to others, but bring it on to yourself as well. And please, by all means, live intentionally and with purpose. Until next time.