Ray Kelly: "Stop Relying On Willpower And Start Installing Better Systems"

What if your biggest growth edge isn’t more information, but a better system for turning insights into action? That’s the challenge leadership coach Ray Kelly brings to the table as we dig into practical ways to remember what we learn, teach it fast, and make it stick for good.

We start by dismantling a common myth: long-term success is not powered by superhuman motivation. Ray explains why only a small slice of outcomes come from willpower and why systems do the heavy lifting. He walks us through his simple but powerful framework—capture two or three nuggets from any book or talk, write them in a dedicated leadership journal, and then teach them to someone the same day. Twice a year, he schedules a focused "Ray Day" to review notes, extract the best ideas, and design concrete next steps. It’s less about consuming more and more about integrating better.

From there, we map the four attributes of great leaders: self-awareness, self-assessment, the ability to learn and integrate, and the will to win. Ray breaks down the difference between reliable level four leadership and true level five impact. The key? Tie goals and actions to a clear why—personal values, vision, mission—and develop other level fours. He shows how teaching accelerates mastery (you learn it twice), how the 70-20-10 model keeps growth grounded in action, and how cutting distractions protects the deep focus that makes strategy real.

You’ll also hear practical tactics you can try today: reserve the first and last pages of your notebook for quotes and factoids, voice-note insights on walks, compress your year’s best ideas into four pages you can teach, and schedule your next review before you leave the room. If you lead or coach, choose who you invest in with intention—work with people you like, who want to grow, and who have upside—so the learning loop stays strong and energizing.

If you’re ready to step off the hamster wheel and build momentum that lasts, hit play. Then share one takeaway with a colleague and schedule your own "Ray Day" on the calendar. Enjoyed this conversation? Subscribe, leave a quick review, and share it with someone who’s serious about leading with purpose.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Birthday Check-In

Intro 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, Peak Performance Coach, Brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning, but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and store? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you. All of you strivers, thrivers, and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at www.bamboolab3.com.

Brian 0:41

Well, hello, my friend Ray Kelly. Welcome back.

Ray 0:45

Good to be back.

Brian 0:46

Great day. Before we get started, I have to say, happy birthday, my friend.

Ray 0:53

Well, it's the big six hero. I'm feeling good. My doctor gave me a clean bill of health, so that's that's a strong thing. And she said something to me, Bri, you'll appreciate this. She said, You you you look great. And I said to her, uh, you say that to everyone.

Brian 1:10

She says, No, I don't.

Ray 1:13

So I've I feel good about it. Um, mind, body, and spirit are all in a good spot.

Brian 1:18

Well, I know you're looking good, brother, so that's that's that counts for something. Hey, I wanted to let you know. I talked to uh a mutual friend of ours this morning, Dave Dick.

Ray 1:25

Oh, I was just thinking of Dave. Whatever.

Revisiting Episode 32 And Global Reach

Brian 1:28

That's weird. He said hello, and uh, he texted me and he said, Oh, I uh what the direct quote was he played a major role in my development. So I I think there's a lot of people I go up, you know. I obviously I talked to a lot of people in our circle, and and and I said this almost four years ago. Can you imagine that was almost four years ago when we talked first? Yeah, wow. That's crazy. You were episode number 32, I think. So everybody listening, go back to episode number 32. Um it was uh July 26th of 2022, titled Do the Right Thing and Do It Right from the True Master of Leadership, Ray Kelly. That episode, for the being the 32nd episode, I checked the statistics this morning. That thing went on three continents. Uh we had listeners on three continents, which in today's numbers, we usually get all five. Well, you'll get like six continents for every episode. Back then, Ray, I mean, we had a pretty small listenership back then. You were a number, we have this is episode 162, and that was episode 30. That's 130 episodes ago.

Ray 2:32

Wow, wow. I had no idea of any of those statistics, but yeah, the continent things when your your uh your uh word and your influence can go across continents is pretty pretty cool.

The Problem With Forgetting What We Read

Brian 2:44

It is really fun. So let's just get started. I uh had this week I went through and listened to our first episode that we did in July of 22, and I was amazed by the but the amount quality and quantity of content that you shared that it made me realize I listen to people like you or Bill or you know uh Marshall Goldsmith or or whoever I have on, and I take a lot of notes. And so often I I just kind of I take the notes and then I review them over the course of a couple of days, and they go by the wayside. So when I went through this week and went through your five levels of leadership, I wrote that down again, and I said that's gonna stay right above my desk for a while. So that there was so much gold in that episode that I I I realized I've got to go back and select, you know, on occasion, just go back and listen to the podcast that I've done in the past and just go and see, am I using the material that I learned? So I appreciate it.

Nuggets Over Novels: Teach What You Learn

Ray 3:47

Um there's a thing about the the the mind is for thinking, the pen is for remembering. That's a Ben Franklin quote. Okay, the the the mind is for thinking, the pen is for remembering. And for all of us, it's amazing when we write it down, but also when we review it again. And uh I got frustrated. Uh if you were sitting in my office right now, Brian, you looked around, there are very hundreds of books, and I've read most of them. Um and I look at some of these books and I don't remember a thing from them. That frustrated me a great deal. Think about spending hours and hours over the course of a week or two reading a book, and then a few years later not remembering anything from the book. So I I've approached reading differently over the last probably decade or two, and that's now I read until I get a nugget or two. And then I take that nugget or two from these books because people write books because they got great stuff to share. And when they got some great stuff to share, when I get one of those nuggets, I stop and I go and I write it all down and then I teach it to others. I'm lucky that I'm an uh executive coach and I have a bunch of clients, and I have an opportunity every week that they have 14, 15, or more appointments each week, and uh I'll learn something from you today, and whoever's next on my calendar today will be the recipient of my nugget. Because if you go use it, teach it, you increase the likelihood you're going to remember it. And another part of my system is twice a year now, and it just happens to work for me twice a year, I do what I call a ray day. So I just take a day off, nothing on my calendar, and I get away. Um, last ray day was um December 30th, was at the end of the year. I usually have a ray day in the middle of the year and one at the end of the year. And I just went to a local library, found a quiet spot in the library, and I spent six to eight hours there just reviewing my notes. And again, all the things I've written down, highlighted, circled, and at the end of the year I do this fun routine is I I list my learnings of the year, quotes of the year, books of the year, even joke of the year, factoids of the year. Because it's amazing how many great things, if you're really truly intentional about learning, you're you're coming across all of the time. And I got frustrated with the fact I forget most of them. So now I have this twice a year routine of going back, and from those factoids, learning of the year, quote of the year, I often build classes that I teach to my clients. Okay, and they're they're firms and stuff like that. So this it's a system or move discretion at the operating level that I've come to um use over the course of the last, oh gosh, 20 plus years. Okay.

Introducing The Ray Day System

Brian 6:44

Now it's interesting. I've heard since we've spoken last, I've heard people, I believe it was maybe Scott Rethke. Uh-huh. You know Scott? Oh, yeah. Because Scott has a memory of quotes and one-liners that like like no man I've ever met before. And I think it was him that was telling me that was he that was telling me that you have done that. I might have heard that from a few people. So I want to dissect this ray day a little bit. Um because one of the things I noticed, I just this year one of my big I'm an average reader like you are, and the same thing. I look at books and I've got I most I have books in two different storage units in the state of Michigan. Um most of my books I might have a hundred and maybe two hundred here, uh, but the rest are packed away. And even the ones I look at here are the ones that either had the greatest impact on me or the ones I bought most or read most recently. And other than the ones that had the greatest impact on me, I look at those, and somebody will say, Oh, did you read um the winner of the the boys of winter? This is a conversation I had with a client last week. It's about the 1980 hockey team. I said, Yeah, I read it. I remember reading it. And I even looked on Amazon when I bought it, and he he said, Well, how how wasn't I say I have no idea? It was just about the 1980 Olympic hockey hockey team. I said, I don't remember anything out of that. And one of the goals I had this year was to I want to get back. I last couple years my reading has slipped. Uh just haven't I've been doing more, you know, doing what most people in our country around the world have been doing. I've been scrolling on YouTube. That's my free time. I just scroll aimlessly, and I it was just it was frying my brain. And so this year I said, you know, when I have free time, I'm going to read. So I've read 13 books already this year. But but but caveat to that. One of them was the Simple Genius Shoe, which takes me a couple hours to read, if that one was the one minute manager. Uh you know, so uh a few and five of those have been auto audio books too. When I'm hiking, I listen to them.

Ray 8:34

Yeah, yeah, that counts.

Systems Beat Willpower

Brian 8:35

But the same thing though, Ray, I do the exact same thing with books. So this idea of the radio really has me intrigued, and I really wanted to talk about this today because I have a I take a I have a journal. I journal five to six mornings a week. I write down five things I'm most grateful for at that moment. Then I just journal. And that journal's open all day on my desk, and when I take off, I throw it my backpack. So when I come up with an idea, a quote, I hear something interesting, or I come up with a some content that might help a client, I write it down. And but a lot of times those get lost in the shuffle. You know, like you have a whole journal for a whole six months or twelve months. That's a lot of pages. Um, so can you explain what you a little a little more detail of what you do on this ray day?

Journals, Quotes, And Wallpapering The Brain

Ray 9:14

Yeah, and let's go back to what you're I think journaling and writing down gratitudes in terms of five things every day, all things that I've done in the past, and and somewhat to, I've I've kind of I think kind of, I've systematized it. I'm gonna go back to uh a learning that I had uh 15 years ago. I talk about my factoids of the year, but this may be my factoid of the century. Because I learned it probably about 15, 18 years ago. And it was a factoid shared to me by Doug Lennock, and Doug shared with us uh on average, in terms of long-term success, in terms of your long-term success, on average, only 5% of it is attributable to self-discipline and self-motivation. That surprised me because I thought the most successful people in business, sports, music, whatever field it may be, were these super disciplines, super self-motivated people. And actually the research shows that's the case. But those people uh typically have about 15% of their long-term successes dedicated to self-discipline and motivation. The other 90 plus percent, the average is five, the best are 15. The other 90 plus percent that leads to long-term success is systems. Okay, the human habit is a system. Okay, a system Michael Gerber wrote a book a number of years ago called e-myth. And in e-myth, he defined a system as removing discretion at the operating level. So remove discretion at the operating level, these super successful people in any field, what they do is they use almost all their self-discipline, self-motivation to stick to their systems. You know, getting up early, having a workout power, having a trainer, eating a certain type of food, having a main all these things, they have systems in place, and you start to look at it. I started to do the same thing around learning, becoming a better leader. Okay. And so I have a journal, okay, and it's only leadership stuff, completely separate from all my to-do list, um taking notes at a um uh anything else. It's just just leadership stuff. Okay, so when I in in my book, I realize over the years it that was too scattered. So now I have the first few pages, and the last few pages of the books are only for quotes and factoids.

Brian 11:35

Okay.

Four Attributes Of Great Leaders

Ray 11:35

So when I hear a great quote, I go, Brian, I love that. I write it down. I open up my book. If the front few pages are already filled, I go to start in the back. Okay, because I find that I like going to quotes and back to uh Scott Retsky. I like to wallpaper my brain with other people's great words. Okay. And one of the ways to do it is write it down, repetition, and then actually practice memorizing those words. So I'm on a spiritual journey, and I was telling a good friend of mine, uh, an ex-client of mine, about my spiritual journey, and she's very spiritual, and she was uh she ended up writing me a long letter last year. And in the letter, she said, Thank you for sharing your spiritual journey with me. Can I make a recommendation to you? And she used the words, wallpaper your wallpaper your brain with God's words. And I go, Wow, I've been wallpapering my my brain with all these other people's words. Why aren't they almighty? So every week, actually, it's been more like every two weeks, I memorize a birth a verse from the Bible, or I'm reading some of my spiritual journeying. I read something, and I go, God, that's really something else. And I memorize it. So on my walks, and if you see me walking down the street, you often see me talking to myself. I'm memorizing a verse and what it means to me. Okay, and I found the ones that picked are very, and I let God help me pick these things, and it's just like it's amazing how it fits into my life at that moment, whether it's about forgiveness, whether it's about uh trusting God, whether it's trust, um just so many different things. My point then what I've been teaching clients for years is this Ray Day concept. The Ray Day concept is another part of the system. Okay, it's a system for integrating learnings. I think it's one of the most uh important attributes for leaders. I'm gonna give you the four most important attributes for great leaders. The first one is self-awareness. Okay, as Doug Lenick likes to say about self-awareness, the grade, of course, people who lack self-awareness are unaware that they lack self-awareness. Think about self-awareness, it's the foundation of great leadership. It's people judge you based on your actions and behaviors. Are you aware of what you're telling other people? The second attribute is self-assessment. Another grade, of course, if you're assessing yourself on self-assessment, okay, no matter whether you're good at self-assessment or bad at self-assessment, when you're giving yourself a score of one to 10, one being low, 10 being high. If you stink at self-assessment, you give yourself a high score. If you're really good at self-assessment, you give yourself a high score. That's part of the problem of self-assessment. The third one is what I want to talk about today. The third one uh successful attribute for being a great leader is the ability to learn and more importantly, integrate learnings. Okay, that's what was my frustrating about reading these books. I'm always learning. But am I doing a great job of integrating the learning so I can actually live it every day in and day out? So that's where I had to build a system. The fourth one, oh, by the way, is the will to win. The will to win. Okay. The four most important attributes.

Brian 14:55

Can you say that again? Then can you those are the four attributes of leadership? And then can you go through those real quickly again?

Ray 15:01

Those yeah, four four most important attributes for great leaders. One is the ability to self- uh be self-aware. Second one is self-assessment. Third one is the ability to learn and integrate learnings. The final one is this will to win.

Brian 15:25

Perfect. Perfect. Okay. And we're gonna talk about number three today.

Learning Integration And 70-20-10

How Teaching Accelerates Mastery

Ray 15:30

We're gonna talk about number three today. Okay, the ability to learn and integrate learnings. So one of those things is I wanted to build systems. Remember, I don't want to rely on that 5% of self-discipline and motivation because as Doug Zonic likes to say, on a good day, self-discipline, self-motivation leaves you, on a bad day, it never arrives. Okay, so put a system in place. So I put systems in place for learning, just like you do. You get up in the morning and maybe you read. You journal certain times during the day, you have a notebook, I have a notebook. Okay, I have certain times of the day that I'm always reading. When I go on my walks now, I actually um I listen to books. Okay. Whether it's the Bible or other books, I'm listening to books every morning on my walk. It's a system, remove discretion at the operating level. All I do is put on my headset on my cell phone and hit play button. Now, one of the things I've learned is on my walks, I wasn't as good as a note taker. So now I have a note-taking system on my walks. So if literally, again, you can see me stop, and there you see me typing or talking into my phone, I'm taking notes of something that was said during what I was listening to. Because, and then I have a system to go back and review those notes at different points of time during the year. And if I get a really good one, I literally will go teach it to my next client. That is my system. Hey, I just heard something that I thought you'd be interested in, Ryan. Boom. But twice a year I do the Ray Day. And the Ray Day is a day I look forward to. And I started doing this 25 years ago by a recommendation from one of my bosses, and probably the person I had the most influence in my career. He recommended that I do a ray day to get out in front of my team. He said, to be a great leader, one of the things is you have to get further and further in front of them, anticipating what's coming. Start by trying to be a few weeks in front of them, then a quarter, then six months, then a year, then multiple years. But in order to do that, you have to have time to yourself and really, really noodle. So the first time I did a ray day, he said, go someplace where you can't be found. Don't tell anyone about it. The only person who knew about it was my assistant. I told my assistant, Jackie, I said, I'm getting doing having a ray day. She goes, What's that? I'm gonna go work on me in the business. Okay, I'm gonna be gone for an entire day. I'm spending the night at an XYZ compound, basically a resort where it's quiet. My wife thinks I'm on a business trip. I am, but it's with myself. Um, only call me if it's an emergency. And you just go and gross yourself. And he gave me a bunch of questions to think about. So you don't have to deal with these, but here's a good starting point. Give me some questions, and I started working on this stuff, and I remember being so fulfilled, so much energy, so much direction, so much vision of where I wanted to go, where we wanted to go. And again, in my note-taking device, I have a just a little comp book, uh, composition book where I take notes, and I have dozens of these over the years. And in there I will write tenure visions, um, or write where we're going, obstacles, da-da-da-da. But the funnest part of it now is I've now made it part of my time to go back and say, what are my learnings of what have I learned over the last six months? What is my learning of the year? It's almost like I have a contest. And so with so many of my clients, I get them and their organizations to do the same thing. And we'll literally have a class in January where people are just sharing their learning of the year. So just think Brian, you're another group of really smart people, dozen people, and everyone shares their learning of the year. There's some dandies.

Brian 19:31

Oh, yeah.

Designing Your Own Ray Day

Ray 19:31

Quotes of the year. The books that they're recommending to people that they read. And that's where I just I go, this is great. You surround yourself with really good people, and you get their best of best, their story of the year, okay, their factory of the year, even their joke of the year. Um some really good ones there. And that's what I do twice a year now. And um, because when I came back from my first ray day, I was so excited I wanted to share it with my boss, and he we had a one-on-one scheduled, and I'm about ready to unload on your eyes. This was great. He goes, Before you even say tell me anything about your ray day, I want you to schedule your next one. Think about that. Systematize the process of feeling this way and being so enlightened and learning. So that's what I do. Last thing I do in my ray day in December is set my ray day in July. Okay, before I go back, I set my ray day for December again. Make sure that I have regular reviewing of all of my top stuff, and then with my top stuff, I'm often building classes and presentations. Um, if I haven't already, because it's part of my system now, is when I get that nugget, go use it, teach it. Because I'd write this down for the audience here. How adults learn and grow. There's a formula, it's the 70, 20, 10 of adult learning and growing. 70% of adult learning and growing comes, you gotta go do it, you gotta go practice it. You don't become a great leader, you don't become a great tennis player, pickleball player, or golfer, or pianist by watching a video. That's the 10% books, classes, podcasts. That's 10%. It helps you, but it does not make you great at this stuff. Okay, the 20% of adult learning and growing is a mentor, a coach. I call it the multiplier. Okay, the coach and a mentor helps you while you're practicing doing it the right way. Okay, practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. So you're practicing incorrectly. Have a coach give me feedback. Try this, don't make the same mistake I made. Keep your head down. Also, what books to read, which videos to watch. I call it the accelerant. A good coach and mentor, and I know O'Brien in your life, I'm sure is the same thing. Dave gave me that compliment. I've I've coached Dave for over a decade. Okay. And have worked with him to become a better fill-in-the-blank. Um, his goal, and I I just happened to be privileged to be part of that um that 20% in terms of helping him grow successfully in what he's he's trying to do. Okay. Um so that's my rating.

Brian 22:28

Okay and my I've got a couple of questions. Number one, um, my clients are gonna listen to this and they're gonna they're gonna say, Can you please thank Ray? Because I've been doing this for this is my 30th years of co of coaching on my own. And I I would say I'm I'm organized physically, Ray. Like my home and office, my car, or always everything's in order. It's probably O C D, I would imagine. Because I'm a I don't function around chaos at all. Um and physical chaos. I but I can I can I I wing things a lot because it's thirty almost 30 years of doing it. I can wing things. Where I've been trying to focus the last probably three or four years is being more systematized. Everything I do. Um, and uh it has helped, but this right here is exactly what I was missing is the books I read, the lectures I attend, the podcasts I listen to, the the training I watch on on videos. Now, how do I take that and how do I implement that and internalize that? Now what you said earlier hit me hard is when you get to those first couple of nuggets, go out and share it, teach it, coach it to someone else. That and I have a client right now over North Carolina, and he's reading the uh book, the uh I had my let's The Power of One More that I had him read. And he was asking me last Friday, what do you do, Brian? You read so many books, but I don't know how to gather anything. There's so much in here. I don't know if I have enough lifetime left to do this. He's only 31. I'm like, well, number one, you do. Um number two, I said, just find one thing that you can start doing right now. That's what I said. Just start one thing. I like your approach from my perspective as the coach and mentor is how do I pull content out of a book or or um information and learning and apply it with my clients right away. So I I love that for one. So thank you. And I like this idea. I'm I'm even thinking of names of what I can't call mine a ray day, but maybe it's a B Day or a Brian, a Bri Day. I mean something funny. I get a client.

Ray 24:28

You know, I'm a Michigan guy. I know the University of Michigan, and I got a couple clients named Ryan. So I explained to them do a Ryan Day, and for folks out there, the Ohio State Ryan Day.

Brian 24:39

That's not happening. Nowhere in the state of Michigan is that gonna happen. Hey, by the way, that basket our basketball team looks pretty damn good this year.

Fighting Distraction To Find Flow

Ray 24:49

I hope so. Yeah, I agree. Number three things for for you, Ryan, and your clients is this works for me, and that's what I tell everyone. It's a way, it's not the way. It happens to work for me. Okay, and I've I've passed this on to all of my clients, all of uh the people who ever worked in my organizations, a system for keeping track of this stuff. Some of them have more sophisticated, and I use the word better systems, and I use the word better systems because it works for them. Some are so much more electronically efficient. I still take notes on a pen and paper.

Brian 25:26

Yeah, I mean, okay.

Purging For Clarity: Best Of The Year

Ray 25:27

That works for me. At the same time, I'm just like you. I mean, I need organization. So over years I've started to formalize back to I wanted a place, I I mentioned I get these quotes all the time instead of looking for a quote, going through this hundred-page book, looking for the quote, it's always now on the first three pages, the last three pages. Okay. I now am listening to podcasts and books, and I thought, why don't I just start writing down every book I write on a book page? What were the key learnings from the XYZ book so that when I go back and review my book of the year, I go, yeah, this is 16 books that I read. I really like these two. And did I already teach a class on it? Because that's part of my system. Here's the thing about teaching something. Um, teaching is the first step to mastery. You don't have to be a master to teach something, but it's the first step to mastery. There's three levels of learning, Brian, that we all go through. The first one is just recognizing, recognizing the right answer. It's like a multiple choice exam. Is it A? Four levels of leadership, B, five levels of leadership, or C, six levels of leadership. I recognize this, B. Okay. The second level of learning is understanding. You could explain it to someone. It's like a blue book exam. You could write out an answer, an explanation to someone. But the final level of learning is really the only level that really matters. That's integration. Can you go out and use it? So back to my four attributes of successful leaders: the ability to learn, that's about recognition and understanding. Integrating the learning is where the really the great ones do is they how do I integrate this learning? Now, here's the thing: the fastest way to get from recognition to understanding to integration, you know the 70, 20, 10 of adult learning. You have to go do it, you have to go practice it. But the fastest way is to go teach it. Because here's the thing about teaching you learn it twice, you learn it the first time when you're listening to it or hearing it for the first time, and you learn it a second time when you go teach it. And here's the thing about teaching a lot, it's the fastest way. Number one, human fear, fear of looking foolish. Because we don't like to look foolish, before we teach it, we'll study it. We'll dig into it. I'm afraid people will ask me some questions about that book. Okay, I mean you can really understand this. I'm gonna re-re-read that section, re-listen to that, or ask the teacher the question or the clarification so I can go use it. You won't be as good at it the first time you teach it, but it's amazing by the fifth, the tenth, the fiftieth time, you'll start to master this the subject and perhaps even start using it. Because actually, one of the things when you say it out loud, it's just like a declaration. You're more apt to start living it. It doesn't guarantee you will. But there's another one of those fact weights of the century. People who write down their goals, that write down what they're going to do, are twice as likely to do it than the people who just say it in their head. Hey, I'm gonna get back to you by noon tomorrow, versus you write it down on your to-do list, get back to Brian by noon tomorrow. Twice as likely to do it when you write it down. When you say it out loud, when you declare, hey Brian, I'm gonna get back to you by noon tomorrow, ten times more likely to get it done than keeping it in your head. We tapped into accountability, but most importantly, I believe we tapped into integrity. I told him I'd get it to him by noon tomorrow. And that's one of the systems and processes I have put in place to increase the likelihood that I integrate stuff. I'm successful at it. I write it down, I hear it out loud, I have a system for going over this stuff because I had that frustration of looking at all those books and going, I don't remember anything from that one. Oh, there's one, extreme ownership. I taught a class on that. I could go through that with you right now. There's another book, um, EOS. I can go through EOS with you because I've taught that. I go through look at these books in my bookshelf, go, yep, I can tell you which ones I've taught out of because I remember the concept to this day.

Morning Routines And Intentional Practice

Brian 30:01

Both very solid books, by the way. Yeah. I mean, really, those are for well, I I think what what for your Ray Day, and I think for myself and the audience listening right now, I think it might be difficult for someone to take a full day every six months. And I but that I think what I'm hearing here, I I can see myself doing that. I mean, obviously I control my calendar pretty well, so or I'm in control of my calendar anyway. I can do that, but I think the idea is what you're doing is you're offering a framework for what you do. The idea is to capture these learnings and integrate them as often as you can, but then at the very minimum, every six months, go back and really give yourself a good I I like to say an internal audit. What did I learn? What have I applied? What did I miss in here that I want to now uh take out? What's my greatest learning of the six months? What's my greatest fact toy, my best joke that I heard? Um, and then that's exactly the framework I needed. Mine will probably my Brian Day or Bri Day. I'm gonna go Bri Day because Brian Day does sound too much like Ryan Day. So I'll go with a Bri Day. And uh I I see myself doing that probably over like a four-hour period. Question I have for you. You say you go off to the library, you go off to you you or you travel somewhere and do it. And I agree with that. Can you tell us why that's more beneficial than doing it in your home or your office?

Ray 31:22

It's just pure uh reducing the distractions. Okay. Um and whatever works best for you. That's what works best for me. If you're I know some extroverted extroverts who need to be have noise around. Uh uh, my wife will hate me saying this, but she she likes to have the TV on the background. It drives me crazy with the TV's on the background. She doesn't even know it's on. She needs that. Um, what works for you? And you great point. For some of you, uh, a full day away ain't gonna happen. But can I start with can I block out two hours on my calendar, close the door, turn off my computer computer, reduce the alarms on my phone and stuff like that to just attack this? Okay, again, another one of these um factoids a couple decades ago. Um my old boss, Doug Lennock, her boss, probably call him to say happy birthday.

Brian 32:23

Tell him I said hi.

Ray 32:24

I just said a voicemail. Um when you have these where was it, distractions.

Brian 32:34

Well, that's what we were talking about. We know when you do it, where your distractions may be.

Choosing Clients By Values And Upside

Ray 32:38

Yeah, my my factory of another one of those factory of a decade. Microsoft has these uh uh capacity clinics, they literally set up cameras and offices and watch people work, okay, to see uh how close they are working to their capacity, and what can make them more efficient and more effective in their work. And they watch people and they can see people, and all of you aren't you to imagine this when you get into that zone. You're in that zone and you're getting stuff done, you're just cranking, okay? No distractions, you're just cranking, cranking, cranking, and then all of a sudden, whether it's your phone or your computer things, that distraction, and your habit is to go back to checking whatever the in my case, Doug's uh leaving me uh my phone ringing. Okay, on average, how much how much time, because when you start dealing with it, how on average, how many minutes does it take you to get back to that same level of focus and flow that you had before the distraction? Take a guess.

Brian 33:49

I've I've heard 11 to 20 minutes depending upon the complexity of the task.

Ray 33:54

Okay. This was this is a couple decades old, but this is actually because I remember it as Michael Jordan, 23 minutes on average. And it's because some people never get back to that same level of focus. So one of the things that I've created for myself when it is time to get stuff done, is try to black out everything. Back in the day when I had working in an in an office with an assistant and hundreds of uh advisors and operation team members around, often the door would be closed. I would tell my assistant, I got a bunch of important stuff I need to work on. Please no interruptions unless it's an emergency. Okay, that allowed me to get stuff done at a very rapid rate. Okay. And I've seen that. I used to have a boss early in my career, he used to yell down my alcoholic. And I'd come running down. Okay. And I realized I often would walk into his office and say, hey Jim, you got a minute? Hey, Jim, you got a minute? It was always yes, but it was back to those distractions add up. Because if if it truly takes you 23 minutes to get back to that same level of focus on average, you can ask yourself how many interruptions before you've wasted a day.

Brian 35:05

Yeah.

Ray 35:05

Okay, just divide you know, 60 minutes times eight for do the math, divide by 23 minutes, you're like, God, there's like 21 interruptions, and I've wasted an entire day where I could have been focused. So that's why my ray day is whatever works for you, the library seems to work for me. There's little corners and quietness that you can go and just sit, and it's neat. Okay. I often would go away to um bed breakfasts or resorts with big rooms with big fireplaces and comfy couches where you could just work. Okay. Maybe a couple people would walk through the lobby or whatever it may be. Um I've gone to restaurants and our quiet restaurants during the day, said, Hey, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm I'd like to get a table in the back, corner booth, have my back to everyone. If you would just keep on coming by and filling up my water, uh, I'll make it worth your time, type of thing. Whatever works for you, if you have a lake home or something like that, you get away before the family comes. Um start with a few hours. I just most of us can block a two-hour period of time, but we really need to eliminate those distractions. I'm gonna just tell you, once you start doing it, it gets addictive. Because you go, holy crap, I got a lot done. And I am really clear about what needs to get done moving forward. Um it's it's fun.

Brian 36:41

I I kind of see it as a purification process to some degree because we have all this stuff in our heads, we have all this stuff in our journals or in our notes, and when you can come by and when you every six months and really kind of pull out what are the most important, impactful learnings of the six-month period, I just see that it's kind of purifying for me. Like it kind of not, I don't know if it's purging, not really purging, but it's purging some of the good ideas and taking out just the best because we don't have enough time to or energy or resources to use every good idea we hear. We have time and energy and resources to use the quality of the best ideas we hear.

Ray 37:17

And really, you know, Larry, to your point. I'm looking at my 2025 year end, one, two, three, I got it down to four pages. Four pages of stuff that comes from hundreds and a year worth of stuff. This is my purge, the best stuff. And I think for all of you, if you could go back 2024, 2023, 2022, 2027, 2026, and only in four or five pages your best learnings.

Brian 37:45

So that's over all the years you've been doing it.

Ray 37:48

No, this is just for this last year. I've oh this was 2025. Okay. I've got my quotes of the year, I got my Mount Rushmore, I got all the really good stuff. Yep, four pages 2025. If I go back to 2024, I bet it's no more than probably the same thing.

Brian 38:05

Okay, then Ray, do you put those four pages in a binder over how does that how do you cap keep those um over the years?

Reassessing Leadership Levels Honestly

Ray 38:13

Thanks for asking. There's still, I haven't systematized it. This is kind of on my I've been thinking about this for a while. God, I could write a book on these. Um I could do a I could have a keynote speech that you guys would hire me and pays me tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars because it's just my best stuff. Yeah. Um, if I but it's all in these books, these comp books. I haven't systematized my system. Oh just take all these great, great year after year stuff, um, and go, hey, here's 2022, 2021, 2020, 2019. Uh in my head, I could go, gosh, that was about 2014. I remember my learning of the year, how you talk to yourself. Hey, my learning of the year 20, probably about 2018 was when I learned about this magical chemical called oxytocin. Okay.

Brian 39:11

That's this is so this is so much what I needed today. Um, one of the things I've been working with my clients on, Ray, not every client, but probably half right now, is a structure and I'm I'm a very structured, disciplined morning guy. Like I'm good from 4 30, 5 o'clock in the morning till about 7. I have a very structured routine. I go through five to six, five days a week minimum, typically six days. Um and in that time is my journal, my reading. Um, and so I've gotten so many of my clients on that really were never journalers and readers to now do that every morning, even if it's for 10 minutes of reading, you know, something light, and then do something physical, drink your certain waters, take a cold shower. There's a there's about seven things. But journaling and reading are two of them that I really really propagate. And I see this as an opportunity to for them to listen to this and say, okay, now how can I not just read, and how can I not just journal, but how can I do this more intentionally?

Level Four Vs Level Five: Tie To Why

Ray 40:06

Yeah, so that I love the word and the the word intentional is so important, uh, Ryan. Um what you intentionally think about you could create. Okay. Um a few years ago we started working on this tool at Think to Perform around uh the five levels of leadership. It's kind of uh assessment tool. You take one of these online tests and stuff like that to find out what level leader are you. Um let's just say you come back to be a level three leader, and then that says this is what you need to do to become a four, level five. And they asked me some questions while they're building this tool. What would you recommend? What are the things they need to do to go from a one to a two, a two to a three, three to four, four to five? Um and every single time I said the word intentionality is the most important word. If you want to intend to become intentional about becoming a level four leader, that's the first thing. Write that down. Tell other people you'd like to become a four. Right, what just happened? You wrote it down, you're twice as likely to do it. You tell someone else you're 10 times more likely to do it. Okay, so become intentional. My whole thing about the the raid day and the taking notes and all these different things. I intentionally wanted to become a better leader. So it all started with my intentionality when I was 25 years old. It's like I want to become a great leader someday. And building plans and activities and journaling and some of the things you just talked about, I've slowly but surely headed northeast towards that. I don't say I have it perfected at all, because I'm learning from you, I'm learning from all the people I'm talking to. This is what happens when you hang around really good people. Um, you'll learn just as much from them as they learn from you.

Brian 42:00

I 100% agree with that. The l over the last four years, probably shortly after you and I spoke last on the podcast, I decided to kind of do a change of uh I wouldn't say a change. I want I I wanted to include people in my circle who were smarter than I am, more successful than I am, um, more grounded, you know, just ahead of me. Maybe not ten levels, but at least ahead of me. And I've done that, and it's uh what uh what I found is that my ability to think more uh uh critically, my ability to empathize better, my ability to internalize information better and to use it has grown up, gone has uh gone up dramatically in that time frame. Um just being very intentional about who I allow into my circle. You know, outside of my immediate family, um, of course. And what I've also found, Ray, is that and I never to disparage a client, I've always had amazing clients, but my level of clients has changed. Um better fit for my systems, my style, and my in my uh you know, what I specialize in. And we've had much, much deeper conversations. I've never had in 20, no, this is 30th, this is my 30th year of coaching, in the first 28 year, 27 years, I never had a client say at the end of a coaching session, hey, I love you, or hey, God bless you, you and your family. Now, I bet a third of my client base when uh right now, when we get up into a call, there's an I love you at the end, or there's a guy, or hey, God bless you. Which it's what I'm saying is I think having those types of people in your circle, whether they're family, friends, clients, whatever it might be, uh you get into deeper, more meaningful, impactful conversations. And when you do that, you explore the other person's soul while they're exploring yours, and you really understand their their motives in life, you know, their habits, their their desires, you know, what their fears even. And that just builds a bond that I had never really had as deeply until these last. probably two to three years and it's been very beneficial.

Make Systems Your Default

Ray 44:04

Yeah I I've I've I've been on the same journey as you and um maybe in different uh uh avenues or levels at different times I remember listening to uh last uh March listened to an Ed Milette John Gordon podcast where they talk they talk about oneness and what you just described is it was kind of epiphany for me. In my coaching business I tell people before we even start okay if someone's referred to me um I have three criteria before I'll work with you Brian number one is I have to like you okay I won't work with people that um if your name shows up on my calendar and I get a pit in my stomach going oh my god this guy's a pain in the ass um this won't work with you gotta I gotta like you number two is you have to want to grow I also often get referred by um um leaders saying hey would you mind coaching this uh young woman tell me about her well she's you know she's got a lot of potential but she's been a multiple pain in the butt and she's having a real hard time she's on her last leg. Nope I can do it I only want more people who really are raising their hand saying I want to grow I want to get better and the third thing sorry I have to like you you have to want to grow on the third one criteria which has really helped my coaching uh business and how I feel about it is they have to have a high upside I love learning from people um I get as much out of their interaction as they get it from me okay just like the quality of people my wife says this to me all the time she goes Ray you I don't have a lot of close friends but the close friends I have are all wildly successful okay and and she she'll jab me and go they're actually more successful than you are I said well yeah monetarily yes but I I I knew them all when they didn't have anything and I was able to say at age 27 they will be one of my best friends why how do you know that I said I just do because their values are very similar and I could see that at a very young age and I've stuck to that and it's the same thing in my coaching business I become very clear about who I really can make a meaningful difference with. And obviously they have to be open and I could try to force my way in back when I was leading an organization where it was my job to work with everyone within the organization there were a bunch of people who didn't necessarily like me or I didn't necessarily like them. They didn't necessarily want to grow definitely at the growth necessary for the organization to be successful. And finally the high upside not all of them had it um or I didn't see it in them.

Brian 46:59

Okay.

Ray 47:00

I'm sure that's one of my things is I I think it's in all of us when I'm at that point in my life it's just like I want to work with the people who want to work and continue to grow and succeed. And I'm very intentional about that. And say it out loud and thus I create it more often than not.

Brian 47:20

Now that's one of the things I have a criteria like that too there's a couple more things on there that but I I like your simplification of the process because really as you were going through this I started thinking hmm really the five things the five criteria I ask I tell my prospects this is this is a pool I'll work with they pretty much are covered in the three things you just said but those yours are a little bit I don't know they're easier to they're more palatable. Like so if I agree to work with somebody or a coach doesn't like and if those are the criteria you I like you you're you you want to grow and and do the work and you have high upside and then if that if I decide to bring on a client they automatically assume I see that in them. I like them I see that they're coachable and they they want to do the work and grow and they have high upside. So it's really a compliment to clients the client you bring on that person you work with or mentor um because it means you're not taking anybody who fogs a mirror.

Dedication To Trent Massey

Ray 48:13

You got and I actually say that to people who refer them to me. That's right I say you know my criteria I got to like them they have to want to grow and have a high upside do they meet that and when I uh say yes or no to them because often I don't know them and I said hey this is my criteria I'm gonna make a few phone calls the people that you say you know and we know see if you match this and I have told people no yeah because if I remember this one person was referred to me and um I called up one of her old bosses and I didn't talk to her but she left me a message she said every time that person's name showed up on my calendar I had a terrible pit in my stomach almost led to an ulcer um I don't know if you're gonna like her okay and I just went if it did it to this person I am no way I'm going to have this person in my group.

Brian 49:04

So I called the person back up and said for a number of reasons we can't work together but appreciate you calling me you don't have to go into depth that so and so told me I'm you're gonna hate her she is a pain in the butt all that stuff I just like um there will be challenges I do take on because if someone says quite frankly Ray they're lost um and you're the type of person who can help and this is the why I I think some of those people bring on you know I tell people I you either get financial income from a client or you get psychic income or both. But sometimes I'll bring on a client because I just enjoy working with them and they do they need it. They might not have a lot of money to pay me for coaching at this moment. And what I find is those people like the same thing I do like them. They all the ones I'm thinking of over the past five years at least all but one that I remember that I terminated the relationship with they they I like them they wanted to grow and they had high upside. You know really when I put up the elitmous test I want to share this though I know you have to wrap up right at the out before the hour. I when you and I talked uh almost four three and a half years ago as I remember because I looked through my notes I th I put myself down as a five a level five leader in our conversation I circled that one implying that I believed I was a level five leader. When I went through the previous podcast again uh this week I realized I'm not and I don't know if it's just three and a half more years of experience and wisdom and maybe a little more self-confidence or less less insecurity anyway that I really I believe I'm probably a high three or a low four to a low four. And here's why you know on my leadership is really what I say leadership I'm not leading a group of employees or anything I'm leading my clients and my family um uh but I I don't really I have not gotten really good at bringing that all that over to their why or the or the mission that they have in life and that was a good wake up call for me. Like it was it was it was again I like to use the word purifying it was purifying because I thought oh there's a really air that's an area I can start intentionally working on is becoming going I and I would say probably a more of four level probably I'd say level four if I had to give it one of the three or one of the five but I have a lot of work to do to get to a level five and that gave me some it gave me hope. And my clients will benefit from that now that I can bring that back to their mission, their why, their values uh to the recommendations solutions and things like that that I bring to them. So I gotta tell you that was a good another wake up call for me this week.

Ray 51:40

Well um you know when we use that assessment tool the vast majority of the people who take the assessment score at a level lower than they they think they are um they just do. And part of the reason was it was I called an absolutely it's if you've use words like always most of the time never seldom whatever it is but do we always do this because when they first did the tool I just said them make it absolute like you always mobilize group people run common cause drive result consistently always if they say no I do it most of the time but not always well then you're maybe just a three okay um but the biggest difference here's the thing about level four level five I'll just remind the folks who go back and watch this the secret because I know a lot of level fours that people that can mobilize a group of people on a common cause to drive a result consistently the secret of being a consistent four is do level five behavior what level five behavior remember what a level five does they tie everything back to the why either their personal why the individual's personal why or the organizational's why vision mission and values but most importantly what a five does is they develop other level four pluses so if the secret of being a consistent for mobilizing a group of people starting with one person yourself connect it back to their why that's the secret I can tell people are working on this problem this problem this problem and I go have you connected it back to the why what do you mean you're you're thinking about everything except for what is that person's values what is that person's witty wiffy for themselves what's that person's vision for themselves what's the organization if you can lasso onto one of those things you have a really good shot of consistently mobilizing that person or peoples thus if you understand the secret of being a consistent four is do level five behavior the difference between a five and a four is fives develop level four pluses it's just what they do. And I find the biggest difference of why they don't they can mobilize a group of people on common cause is they're unconsciously competent. They're doing it connecting back to the why tracking their goals all of those different things but becoming consciously competent on this stuff. This is one of the reasons I think I'm a much more effective leader today than I was 25 years ago when I was leading hundreds if not thousands of people because I've spent so much time about intentionally thinking about how to develop a level four plus leader. And I think Brian you do this every single day you start to become conscious of systems don't rely on self-discipline and motivation on a good day of leisure on a bad day it doesn't arrive. I want to consistently get a result stop relying on self-discipline to get up in the morning and work out and read. Have a system in place for remembering for learning for integrating learning that's what's helped me is the last 15 years of 16 years of coaching is the fact that I now have all of my time is not focused on driving a result worrying about budgets and performance reviews it's about the skill set necessary to be a great leader to drive results to the importance of having a budget the why behind it. So I think for for most of us um it's a conscious competence and being intentional without being really consciously confident of how to mobilize group people are on common cause result.

Brian 55:28

Well my friend I know you have a a hard stop here in one minute so I'll I'm gonna let you hang up while I'll sell the salute the goodbye to the audience but I just want to take the time to thank you. This was a is is good if not better than I had hoped that my in my wildest imagination that today's uh session or interview would be it for me it built up on something specific that I can take home with me right now and start utilizing today. And I hope I'm guarantee we're gonna hear from the audience because this was a very practical uh amount of content and material. So thank you so much for coming on again and get out there and celebrate your 60th birthday.

Ray 56:03

I celebrate you today my friend I will next time you have me on let's just uh I'll just I prepare hey I could just share a bunch of my learnings of the year I didn't even get to any of those because there's some gems in there so hey I'll have you on anytime you want to come on Ray.

Brian 56:19

I'll reach out again probably definitely more uh before the next three and a half years for sure. Yeah all right bless you man bless you brother take care happy birthday thanks by now wow gentlemen that and ladies and gentlemen that was Ray Kelly uh I didn't do an introduction at the beginning because we only had a short period of time uh you can go back and listen to the podcast I mentioned earlier Ray is one of the greatest leadership coaches in the world everywhere I go he and I started an industry he was a few a couple years before me but as I left the industry and went on to coaching the industry his name pops up consistently all the time and every single time I've it's everything has been positive and I've heard it hundreds of times I've heard his name mentioned it's always positive so this is well worth listening to this is well worth getting your journal out starting a journal getting a notepad of paper and just start taking some of the notes that you learned today and practice what Ray shared about intent intentionality and consciously comp conscious competence. Before we wrap up I do want to say this I I want to dedicate this this particular uh podcast to Trent Massey young gentleman student at northern Michigan University a fellow wildcat and a a buddy of my son's who uh was tragically lost February 22nd um and uh after a large search and rescue uh we could not find him um his body uh but we believe that Lake Superior is um is the cause of this so any prayers you can send out any positive vibes to his family and friends that his body will be recovered someday so they can have some final closure. So rest in peace Trenton and Godspeed on your journey.