"Holistic Human Performance" with Troy Black and John Neyer

Most people chase performance by pushing harder, grinding longer, and hoping willpower holds up. That works until life gets loud, stress stacks up, and your “discipline” disappears at the exact moment you need it most.

I’m joined by John Neyer, an executive leadership coach and consultant, and Troy Black, a retired U.S. Marine whose career reached the most senior enlisted leadership levels in the Marine Corps and at the joint force. Together we unpack what elite leadership looks like when the stakes are real, and why the best lessons translate cleanly into business leadership, team culture, and everyday family life. We talk about holistic human performance, the mind body spirit connection, and why purpose is not your job title, it’s your anchor when conditions are imperfect.

You’ll hear practical tools you can use immediately, including the “Freeze” exercise to check what you’re thinking, feeling, and doing, plus a clear framework for building habits that last. We get honest about willpower vs systems, discipline vs atomic habits, and why doing hard things on purpose can train you for chaos without burning you out. If you care about peak performance, leadership development, resilience, perseverance, and becoming your best self without sacrificing your relationships or health, this conversation is for you.

Subscribe, share this with three people who need it, and leave a review so more of the Bamboo Pack can find the message. What’s one habit you’re ready to build next?

Transcript

Welcome And Big Promise

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, Peak Performance Coach Brian Posley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life? Spinning and spinning, but not really moving forward. Are you ready to jump off and store? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you. All of you strivers, thrivers, and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at www.bamboolab3.com.

Brian 0:41

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Bamboo Lab Podcast. As you know, it's been several weeks since we've actually done a show. We actually have three interviews this week and a coup one or two next week. So we're getting back to, I believe, um one a week for the rest of the year on average. So all of you know who have been listening for a while, uh my whole theory on success, it's very much more holistic approach. I don't believe in just focusing on one aspect of your life. I believe that when you can when you write all you know, a high tide raises all ships type thing if you do it properly. So I was really excited a few uh weeks ago. John Nyer reached out to me and said, Hey, I've got uh this interesting uh idea for the podcast. So this is the first time I'm actually interviewing two people at one time. And he talked about his friend of 30 years or so, Troy Black. And um we had a Zoom call two weeks ago, and the the three of us hit it off right away. These guys are top, I mean top-notch men, top-notch professionals, and their idea of leadership coincides so well with the things I've learned that work well over the years. So instead of me talking about it, the best thing is to talk to bring on two men who are have done this throughout their careers, both in the military and then in the civilian world, and let them share their wisdom and experience with all of you. So, everybody, it's an honor to welcome my new friends, John Nyer and Todd Black. Troy Black, I'm sorry, Todd or Troy. I called you Todd with uh before we started an interview, and Troy Black. John Nyer, Troy Black. Welcome, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Morning, Brian. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. Hey Troy, I mean, Brian, I appreciate that. That's uh name Joe for the day. Yeah, all good. So thanks, Brian, for the opportunity.

Troy Black’s Marine Corps Path

Brian 2:24

Troy, I gotta tell you, I had a really close friend in high school. And it was his he was Troy, and his brother was Todd. And I don't know if that's what mixed up, but when John and I were talking before you called in, I called you Todd, and I'm like, I know it's not Todd. So I might say it again, so I'll I'll correct myself right away. Just a little slip. So, Troy, because I'm I I started off by pronouncing your name wrong. Can you start with you? Can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and your background?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Uh yeah, it's uh thanks, Brian, again, just for the opportunity. And uh my my background is a pretty simple story. Um I I hail from Louisville, Kentucky. I am a University of Louisville, not University of Kentucky fan, and anybody that knows knows the difference. Um yeah, I went to the University of Louisville for a year uh studying Russian as my major before joining the Marine Corps in 1988. Uh linked in with John there in boot camp, though I'm not sure how much we spoke to each other in boot camp, because if you're not screaming at the top of your yards, yes, sir, and no, sir, you're probably not saying the way things, but I know we did communicate a great deal while we were recruits together. Um I joined the Marine Corps as an infantryman, had the opportunity to serve a good portion, almost the majority of my career, I guess, in infantry units, which is what I love to do. Uh enjoyed that portion of my career and then moved on to some other things you know throughout my career. We'll probably talk about here. Um very happily married to a very wonderful woman who's also a retired Marine. Um we're we're parents, uh, we're believers of our Lord and Savior, and we just love having the opportunity to be able to reach out now and help families and veterans in our new capacity since I've retired uh in this new role. So I think it's a little bit about me. Maybe we'll we'll cover some more later.

John Nyer’s Coaching Framework

Brian 4:05

That's awesome. Thank you so much, Troy. John, how about you?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, sure. So I've actually spent my entire career, professional career outside the Marine Corps in financial services or financial services connected industry. So today I'm a leadership coach and executive leadership consultant and executive coach with uh decision reflex. And as Troy mentioned, uh our path first cross as young marine recruits at Paris Island in 1988, actually right now, May through July. It says in on the photo that I sent to you this morning, Brian, with our with our Marine Recruit uh Paris Island photos on it. But um we're in recruit leadership role roles in the same platoon, and then our path separated for nearly four decades, 38 years to be exact, uh, only to reconnect later with the same leadership conclusions from completely different worlds. So while look while Troy stayed in after in the Marine Corps after 88, um I went to the reserve side mostly. Um my reserve unit was activated in 91 for desert storm. We did not, however, end up making it to the desert just because of the nature of the geopolitics and the the nature of that particular conflict. And so uh the Marine Corps and their infinite wisdom, Troy was not the sergeant major of the Marine Corps at this time, uh, but they sent uh my unit to the Arctic. We spent um some time in Norway. Um so while everyone else was in the desert, my unit was in the in the Arctic. Um then after that back to the reserve side, and I was recruited by John Hancock, actually Brian, in I believe it was 1989, and I started pursuing that path and have stayed on it. I love uh financial planning, I love behavioral advice, helping clients reach their dreams, goals, aspirations for themselves and their family, becoming more of who they ideally would like to be on their best days, um, helping clients with their mind, body, spirit connection that we'll talk about a lot today. And then that evolves through some phenomenal legendary leaders that you and I have mentors that you and I have in common, Brian, into this specific field of uh uh leadership consulting and executive coaching with a lot of financial advisors as clients, not exclusively. Um, and Troy will bring um whole other sectors and industries um um to our firm from his background experience, skill sets, and connections. Um but um there's nothing more fulfilling to me than helping people get what they really, really want for themselves at a deep level in alignment with their values and without sacrificing their relationships, their health, their values, or their soul. And so we'll talk about that, but that's really um why I do what I do. And then outside of just professionally, uh, I have nine grandchildren, three kids, three kids in law, five dogs, and one wife. And and not not in not in that order. So uh Wow.

Brian 7:49

You got more grandchildren than I do. I have my I just found out I have my sixth one coming like any day now. And uh I was I was told uh last Friday or 10, 11 days ago, at my son's graduation, one of my bonus sons they came up to see us their brother graduate, and he informed me that uh they're having their first child. So that'll be number seven come November.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Awesome. Congrats, it's the best thing ever, isn't it?

Brian 8:15

The one thing the audience can't see right now is we did a Zoom call or a Teams call on I think on the 21st of April, and all of us are in our late for late 50s and we're all completely bald. So Troy, Troy, Troy, John made a good comment before you came on. He said, Good thing this one isn't on video because there'd be a lot of glare. And uh so we'll do one on video when I the three of us will get we'll do another one when we go on YouTube here in the next few months, but we'll have to put some powder on, I think, because I know when I go on camera sometimes, man, I'm like my glasses are glaring, my forehead's glaring, but we'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yep, absolutely. Hey Brian, one thing, so Troy, Troy, not Todd, but Troy did not say about himself. One thing I've learned in the last few months is Troy is uh with all his accomplishments, uh, he is he is a humble gentleman, and I appreciate about that about him. So Patrick Glencioni, the the author, speaker, leader. Uh Patrick Glencioni um talks about people associating people that are hungry, humble, and smart. And smart means smart with people, but um Troy is is all three of those things, but he is humble. What he didn't say about himself is that he went on to in 37 years stellar youth uh career in the Marine Corps. He became the 19th sergeant major of the Marine Corps, and then he got actually promoted. I m most people don't know it's possible to get promoted from the most senior enlisted role in a branch of the U.S. Armed Forces, but he did that, he got promoted to the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. And one of the things that so so by the way, he that he is the only person in human history or all of history to be both of those roles. Um the most senior enlisted person in any branch of the armed forces, including in the Space Force now, and the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman of the joint chief, which is the most senior enlisted role in all of the Department of Now War, uh formerly called Department of Defense. He says that's a good change. Um, but he's he's the only. I heard a speaker say recently, Brian, that don't be the best, be the only in in that area in that respect. So I think about you know 37 years of experience becoming the only person to hold those two senior most enlisted roles. And Troy comes out of those 37 years, a lot of people would just retire and sit back and seek comfort. You our mutual friend Ray Kelly talks, you've heard him say many times, as have I, talking about choosing growth over comfort, and that growth happens only outside the the comfort zone. Troy is continuing to work on himself like a sergeant major of the Marine Corps, only like only a sergeant major of the Marine Corps can. And um, so I really appreciate his desire uh to not only you know learn and grow and become more of who he ideally would like to be on his best days in all areas of his life that we'll talk about, but also um you know stretch and um and one of the things that he said to me in one of our earliest conversations this this year is that uh he's more interested in helping other people achieve their legacy than he is even his own. In so many words, he did in so many words he said that effectively, and that stuck with me. And it's not that he just says those things, he has lived those because in those two roles that I described, the a big responsibility of the sergeant major of the Marine Corps is to make the commandant of the Marine Corps, the senior uh general in all of the Marine Corps, to make the commandant look good, right? And um then as the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman of the joint chief of staff, that role is largely to make the chairman of the joint chiefs and the joint joint chiefs, also you know, all four star generals or admirals. Um, so I I just appreciate that about about him, and those are the things that he didn't say about himself.

Brian 13:02

Because he's humble and hungry. Because he's humble. That's the thing I noticed when we talked on the 21st, is you know, of course, when you can see the other person's face, you get a better read. I think Troy, you were in your truck, I think, um, when we were doing our call, or you were somewhere else. I don't think you were in an office or anything, but like you I you're a former um Marine Corps, um sergeant major, but or retired. Is it retired? You call it retired?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Uh yes, retired. And that's the thing I'm always a Marine, always a Marine. Always a Marine, yeah. I'm not a retired Marine. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

The Myth About Military Leadership

Brian 13:33

I love that. Well, that's the thing. When I talk to retired people, there's not always that same look in your eyes. You look like a person just coming into the world, not the person who's leaving a certain part of their and it was I think it's the intensity in your eyes. And I'm looking at that picture of you when you were that John sent me this morning when you were younger. You have Mike Singletary eyes. I think it pierced right, pierce right through you. So uh and that just so that hunger too, and then humility. Well, okay, I'm gonna start with Troy. Now, you just obviously were in the the Marine Corps world for so long and had to experience and lead others, and and you're coming out of that, going more into the civilian world. What are you seeing as the gap that we are that we as leaders or coaches of leaders or somebody in a in a in a team culture in the civilian world, what do you see that we're missing that you've learned over the years doing it? I mean, where life and death is really on the line at times.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, John and I have talked about this a lot, the difference between it being complex and complicated. They're not the same, they're obviously different. I think the answer is a complicated one, but it's not it's not complex. And what do I mean about that? Um first I'm gonna say, you know, thanks to John and his his interest in me because it's given me also the opportunity to now be a you know part of the decision reflex team. Um why that's that important is it's perspective and it corrects your question, Brian. So here's here's what I think is probably the answer. Uh not the answer, but maybe a thought. Um we always look at our military as successful. You either win or you lose. Forget the political debate, forget about what we see on television. I used to have these debates all the time when I was either in Congress or or visiting someone about, you know, hey, you guys lost. I haven't lost a firefight or a battle in in 37 plus years. No, I I disagree with that. Right? And so from that level of success, um, I think we assume that there's a difference between military leadership and business or quote unquote civilian leadership. I disagree. I think to answer your question, I think that's the gap. I think I think there's a thought that in the military side, you've got a bunch of people who are in charge that run around yelling at people all day long, telling them what to do, and the people that tell them what to do have no choice but to let robots obey their orders, and everything works out great. Well, if that were the case, if it was that simple, I'm absolutely certain the civilian sector would have lashed on that by now, and uh we'd have bosses running around telling people what to do, and their companies would be highly successful as a result of that. That's not how humans work. The you know, the military, quote unquote, or even my my service, John's service, the Marine Corps is probably known for being the strictest of all uh the services, maybe even globally in some cases, um, that's not how leaders work. And the corporate world may be different, the military world may be different, but humans are not, they are the same. And so I think the biggest that gap is is understanding that there are ways to treat people uh that transcend, you know, people who walk around in uniform, who who have what we believe to be very clear, dedicated missions with no flexibility, it's just a do-as-you say sort of organization, and and the civilian sector, which we think is completely open and full of chat full of challenges and well no. They're both they're both the same in more ways than they're different. Maybe not answer the question so much, but I think that's the gap is a misunderstanding.

Mind Body Spirit And The Freeze Game

Brian 17:18

I think that, yeah, that answers the question. You had sent something to me uh three weeks ago that I thought about a lot, and you said something to the effect of leadership at as a being the CEO of Ford, the leadership is the same as being a manager of McDonald's. Um, and so there are some leadership principles that I think apply whether you're in the military or civilian world or whether you're running a uh three-person shop or a you know 10,000 person or a corporation. Um the thing that really I was really uh uh uh attracted to in our call last week when I was uh last month when the three of us were talking was this idea of holistic human performance. And you know I I gotta tell you, there was a there was a time 20 years ago, and I've been doing this now for it'll be 30 years this no fall of my anniversary of coaching. And the first 10 years, I was young, stupid, naive, insecure. I thought I knew everything. I pro I've I never spoke to another coach or consultant. I wouldn't read books on consulting or coaching. I was a very I wanted to do it my way. I was, you know, the Rock the Island mentality. And something happened probably when my son, when I got custody of Dawson, so probably 20 years ago, 21 years ago, um, I started kind of reevaluating my thoughts about like my thought was there's a there's one way to do it, and you know, I'm specializing in this one thing. I don't want to deal with your spiritual, your physical, your emotional, mental. My job is one thing. And it it worked. I mean, it was quasi-successful, but it drained me. And then when I started kind of bringing more working with a per the person as a person, as a human being rather than just a client, it became my job became so much more enjoyable, and the impact was um astronomically greater with with them. Um, so I was really uh really appealed to me when we uh talked a couple a few weeks back. So John, I'll start with, I'll go, I'll go to you now. Um tell me what your thoughts are on when you're working with somebody, what is your belief system when it comes to getting them to perform at the highest level, that human performance, getting them to to get to that peak level. What do you think your philosophy is? And what are your what are your beliefs on that?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, absolutely. I think some of this will sound familiar uh to you, Brian, because of um the people I mentioned that we have in common from our background that I think we would both um consider people on our personal Mount Rushmore of mentors. And um you you've talked to some of those people on recent podcast episodes of the of this podcast. So um it it all starts with uh both as a financial advisor, but just as a developer of leaders uh at any level, like you were talking about, no, regardless of what their role or responsibility, their age, um everyone is a leader because everybody has it has influence. And so um I was I've been thinking more recently, Brian, about uh how helping people get what they really want for themselves at a not on a surface level, not on a material level, um, but how with my my clients it really plays out. And so Woody Woof Woofy, what do you really want for yourself? Um you'll remember that we've we've look at as you're just you just made this point, it's not just the business side only that where people have woody woofy items. We strongly, strongly encourage every client to have personal and self-development woody-woofy goals as well, if you remember that. And often, though, Woody Woofy items will tie into, should should tie into their values, should be aligned with their values. Often, though, especially when we get into personal and self-development goals, those are not just business goals, but they tie to the values like health and fitness or knowledge and wisdom. And so uh on the health and fitness side, it might be losing weight, it might be to run a marathon, it might be to go to the gym more often. Um so that's that's the body connection. But we all we know we know that lifting weights, for instance, as an example, has a positive effect on the mind, the brain, not just the body, right? And and so when you release positive positive chemicals in your brain, that also gives you certain feeling, and you feel that in your spirit. Right? And then and that encourages you, that gives you the energy to do more of the things that nurture your mind, body, and your spirit. And so hopefully those key tasks, those things that you put down, I must in order to achieve this goal, I must do such and such. Then you can, you know, habitually, even subconsciously nurture your mind, body, and spirit. So one one example, kind of let's say um, let's say someone has a goal of a fitness goal of just walking for 20 20 minutes a day. Well, that that can obviously have that that can obviously have a um positive effect on on their body. But I in some of this research that I've done, I took a look at Ray Ray Kelly, who we've alluded to a couple times, has talked about intentionally releasing oxytocin into audiences, whoever you're leading, whoever you're you're speaking to, whoever you're trying to influence, um, how do you release oxytocin in their brain? Um, building on that, I took a look at what are some activities that we can do to best naturally increase the positive chemicals in our own brain because of this mind-body-spirit connection. And so, one example of bundling some activities together that has a positive effect on our mind, body, and spirit at the same time would be here's here's my example. If one takes a walk, ideally in the sunshine with a pet or a friend, listening, talk talking to a friend or listening to positive music or a podcast like Bamboo Labs, for instance. Um, but if if you do that activity, take a walk or do some exercise in the sunlight, listening to something positive with a friend or a dog, you actually release four positive chemicals in your own brain at the same time oxytocin, dopamine, endorphins, and serotonin. And so um, if you also go through your gratitude list on that walk, um if you did that every tw for 20 minutes every day for a month, um how do you think you would feel at the end of that uh end of that month? But so at the same time, um recon that leads me to also thinking about how you feel. You've heard us us and my colleagues and the people that I mentioned previously talk about the freeze exercise, the freeze game we call it, right, Brian? And so what is the freeze game? Freeze game is we do this with every client and every audience. Um freeze game is just freeze. When I said freeze, what were you thinking, feeling, and doing? So it's a good exercise for in the moment, and it can as you freeze to breathe, you know, you calm, you calm yourself down a little bit, you slow your breathing, slow your heart rate, and now you're affecting your mind and your body and your spirit by just slowing down to reflect, to breathe, and to get into your mind and your spirit a little bit. And then what am I doing with my body physiologically? So am I in the ideal state? People talk about getting into flow, getting into the zone. Well, that's what am I thinking, feeling, doing? And then that evolves into the experiential triangle. So not only coming into this podcast this morning, this talk between the three of us, as you mentioned, as friends, had conversation between friends. What do you what am I thinking, feeling, and doing come into this? What do I want Brian and Troy to be left thinking, feeling, and doing because of our time together? And then your audience, your audience that's interested in peak performance, what do the three of us want them to be thinking, feeling, and doing because of our conversation? And so that was a a long answer to a short question, but that's how um the thing, that's how Woody Woofy, the values exercise, the freeze exercise, being intentional in our activities and building building habits can um help us go deeper in our mind, body, spirit, soul, soul connection.

Brian 27:20

Is that helpful? Very helpful. You know, I love that freeze exercise. Um I've used that uh I don't know how many 15, 16, 17 years ago. I was I offered to um do some voluntary work for guiding light mission in downtown on Division Street in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And that's really the homeless district. And and I said, I went in there and I said, Hey, I don't know what I can do, but I I I have a gift for coaching and speaking. And so I said, I is there anything I can offer? So they put me on a program where every Tuesday from 12 to 1, it was like August, July, August, it was like a seven-week program. Anybody who wanted to come in from the street could come in and get a free meal, get out of the heat and go into air conditioning and listen to me speak. And I think we had like a hundred people attend every Tuesday. And the one thing I taught them every week is I said, remember this one exercise three or four times away, stop and ask yourself, what am I thinking right now? What am I feeling right now? What am I doing? Who am I physically with, and where am I physically at? And if you don't like the answers to those questions, make an adjustment and just do that three or four times a day. And out of the hundred people, I connected with about eight of them. That just and they told they my office was downtown Grand Rapids, and uh they they knew my I don't know why they found out where my office was, because my office was right on the on the on one of the main streets in the city and it was right on the long ground floor, and that was a big glass window, and I my desk was right there. I think some one of them spotted me one day. Well, they told them not, hey, don't bother Mr. Bowls at his office. And but I let them. They'd knock on my window, I'd say, come on in and have coffee. There were about eight of them I connected with. And three of them eventually, over the next six months, got off the street and got back to the life they wanted to. And they said it was because I didn't call it the freeze game, I just said this is what I recommend doing. That made them consciously aware that one of those feelings, thinkings, doing you know, who they're with and and things like that and where they're physically active, that that made them feel that made them kind of connect with reality. Like I this is not what who I want to be with or where I want to be or what I'm thinking. I don't want to think these things or feel these things or do these things. So I love that doing that on a personal level too. I've never done that, what you just said though.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it actually uh people that actually do, we've seen with clients that people that actually do it several times a day for over you know, course of weeks, months, years, it we don't I don't like to use hyperbole, but we have it literally will change your life. So we I I try to stay away from every single thing that I do will change change your life. That one the combination of Woody Woofy, the values exercise, and the freeze game more often will absolutely change your life. We actually have now our are I you know people on my Mount Rushmore of mentors um have 50 years of of tangible experience seeing these things change people's lives. So, but I'm learning you one of the questions you ask um um early or before when we talked was about your greatest learning you've had in the past 12 months. And it's mine is actually in this area of how going deeper and being more consistent with the freeze exercise, and I think we're understanding more of the psychology and the neuroscience really behind that. And so it speaks exactly to what we're talking about that this the mind, body, spirit, soul connection is very real and very very, very powerful. Um even if I if I dare to use this word, hopefully this is not too much of a woo-woo word, but it can be it it really can become transcendent, you know. So our you know, being being not just aware, more you know, know thyself, but conquering conquering one's body, um, and be you know, having the spirit and the soul lead um you know with higher higher purpose.

Building Human Performance For The Long Run

Brian 31:25

So I love the idea of the bundling um activities. Um a lot of my clients, I one of my one of the things I do with my clients now is I have them establish a solid morning routine, which is you know, yeah, what I recommend is prayer uh meditator meditation, there's journaling, gratitude journal, reading, cold water, drinking, you know, 30 ounces of water with lemon and baltic sea salt in it, um, and taking a cold shower doing and doing something physical for at least 10 minutes, just do something, crunches. Um, but what I tell them when they're gonna do their cardio, try not to jump on a machine in a gym. Go outside and do it. If you live in a like obviously I live in the upper Peninsula, we're on Lake Superior here in Marquette. We have cold winters. But I'm I'm pleasantly surprised by when I go to the trail, how many other people are snowshoeing, rocking, uh, you know, uh skiing, hiking, walking, still running, uh, despite the cold weather. And you I just tell people if you do that on a consistent basis three to six times a week, it just changes your brain. It really does. When you're combundling those, I've never done the gratitude thought. I do a gratitude journal every morning at like 5 15. I write five things every day that I'm grateful for at that moment. And that has changed my life. But to think about those things while I'm rocking, well, I'm because I rock every day, that would be another mind shift. Outside, you know, yeah, I don't have a dog to walk, but um, I'm I will tell my son I'd take his dog for hikes while his girlfriend's his girlfriend's in uh in um Austria for six weeks uh studying abroad, so he's working now and and uh I said, well, I'll take the dog for a hike. So maybe that gives me more motivation to have a little pooch with me. Troy gratitude's a superpower. Oh my gosh, it is. I even saw um I'm a big UFC uh fan. So Sean Strickland, uh, who won the middleweight Belgian on Saturday night, he was talking about his his superpower, the superpower in life really is gratitude. I was surprised to hear him say that. He had a post-fight interview, he talked about that. Uh Troy, how about you? You had a different path in life than John has. You started off in the same uh journey, but went branched off in different directions, certainly a different path than I've taken. I want to find out what you view human performance as. What is your thought, your belief system around ultimate human performance?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah, good question. Um maybe a little story format, a little bit of histories. I think it probably brings us to the answer you're looking for. Um, I don't think, and this is an opinion, but I'll prove that in a moment. Uh I don't think anyone's got it figured out. So anytime I look on YouTube and someone says, hey, here's the five top, no, there's every all 500 short videos have a different method to get to the same place. Right? And so I would just spill the myth of today we have the most important thing in human health, uh, the the paleo diet. I'm not how many human beings were on the planet during the Paleolithic era, I don't know. But um the point being is fad, right? On on physical performance, whether that's sleep, nutrition, or or exercise, there's no super science that'll get you to write. It's it's common sense. Uh I know it's hard to make that statement because so many don't apply it, but you know when you're not applying it.

Brian 34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Common sense is also being has been said is not common, but it actually is. We just make decisions and prioritize things differently. I haven't said that. Um from from you know, I grew up an athlete. I had the opportunity to play high school sports, in particular, you know, varsity sports, football primarily. And in the 1980s, we're still telling people, hey, don't drink water, make cramp up, right? And do it two a day. So the main maybe there is a little bit of science to it, but we but what we do is is we get smarter, right? And so sucking up and run an extra mile is a lot different than progressive training so that you can run a mile faster, right? Um sports science is probably a thing we can talk about from the physical aspect of it. But here's here's my learning over time. Someone who has grit and determination will generally work their way through life's problems, whether they're mental, physical, spiritual, behavioral, or physical, if they've got toughness. Right? And so if you rely on that, at some point in time you start to break physically, mentally, socially, behaviorally, or physically. And here's a couple things for you to think about. Uh this might be a military of you, but it it's not. Um the object is always to win, period. Whether it's in business, a business fails if it doesn't win. Uh if it's a military mission, you lose if you don't win. And so focusing on the win then becomes a question of how do you achieve the win? What does the win look like today, tomorrow, five years from now? And then how do you develop your people to think about what success, success looks like? Because see, winning isn't always about the word win, it's about success. What does success look like? Now we get a little bit more out of a sports and military in state and get into more something that looks more a little more general, which is success. And then we focus on the individual. So back in the early 2010s, 2012, actually, 2011, uh Special Operations Command, SOCOM, decided it it had a problem. And what it had what it figured out was this is you know, right after the bin Laden uh um event, this is 10 years now, really solidly into Iraq and advancing operations, every 12 years. They figured out that they have begun to put the equipment and the mission over the people. So I get kicked out today. Well, special operations has this has this weapon or has this vehicle. It's not about the vehicle. It's about the person that's driving it. It's not about the weapon, it's about the person that employs it, it's not about the mission, it's about the person that has to execute it. So what they did was is they built a program called Preservation of the Force and Family. Family. Preservation of the force and family, OTIF, we would call it in the soft community. And I happened to be going to a school at the time in Special Operations Command. I'm not, I'm not in SOF, I'm not a special operator, but I had the opportunity to go to their one of their very first senior enlisted academies that they had started up about a year before this, 2010, 2011 time frame. And I got to thinking about this, um, looking at my, you know, the Marines that I had the opportunity to work with and the units that I had the opportunity to be be in, and watching my mom, watching my grandparents, watching our kids outside of the military environment have some of the same challenges, focusing on the mission, the mission, the mission, not yourself and family. And so when I had the opportunity to become the sergeant major of the Marine Corps, uh, one of the first things I asked the Commandant to do as we were going through a thing called force design, which is really bringing the Marine Corps and the entire total joint force into modern warfare, is asking the Commandant if I could sponsor a study with the Center for Naval Analysis on developing a strategy for the Marine Corps, much like SOCOM had done, in order to increase human performance. He said yes. So, along with the Center for Naval Analysis, we did about an 18-month uh study and came up with what I mentioned at the beginning here. Um behavioral, actually starting with spiritual fitness, behavioral fitness, social fitness, human or physical fitness, these things are the core of who we are as people. Interesting, and I'll close here so we can hold up maybe for more questions or comment here, but interestingly, the Center for Naval Analysis could only find, could only find reference to occupational health and occupational safety as a basis for how our nation even thinks about holistic human performance. That's in the civilian side where where you all spent most of your your careers, we only think about occupational health and occupational safety when it comes to holistic performance. Those are the rudimentary documents in business, whether you know it or not. And then we kind of expanded upon that. And so I think when we focus on the person, then we can execute the mission. Brian, you and John both mentioned this, but I'll close here actually. Uh taking a taking a what'd you say, uh John? You take a take a pause, take a rest. Breathe. Yeah, breathe. And we've all heard the phrase smooth is fast. And fast, and fast is slow. What does that mean? You can only move as fast as you can react, right? And you can only, and sometimes going slow actually helps you speed up. We can dive into that, but if you're not mentally, morally, physically, spiritually, socially sound, uh, you probably aren't going to achieve those missions very long once that grit runs wears away.

Brian 41:04

Wow. I so you it it's interesting that you start off when you're talking about the you know the study on human performance. Um you start on the spiritual realm. Well, so you so you said the spiritual I'm sure I got these spiritual, behavior, social, and physical. Is that what you said, Troy?

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Spiritual, physical, physical, social, behavioral.

unknown 41:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Sorry, I'm popping and drinking water at the same time. And and the physical. Okay. Four or five domains there.

Brian 41:33

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Yeah, I never depend upon your reference, they'll combine mental and behavioral. You know, I separate them because they're not the same thing. How you think and how you act aren't the same thing. One's mental, one's your your action, behavioral. And then how you interact with others, social fitness.

Brian 41:48

Okay.

unknown 41:49

Yeah.

Why Purpose Comes Before Everything

SPEAKER_02 41:50

See that I would just but before you move on, I would just pause it. And the most important one of all of those, the most important one, it is the spiritual one.

Brian 41:59

Tell me why, tell me why you say that, Troy. What makes that free from from your perspective that you've noticed and learned that that's the most important one?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Um well, we we tend to talk about a mental health crisis that we have, right?

Brian 42:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Uh or a behavioral issue, or or whatever, whatever crisis we're in right now. What I've learned is if you don't have purpose, and purpose isn't the job. The job is what you do to to make yourself one, either happy or two, produce money to help your quality of life, right? And if you're lucky, you get both of those things. But you still have to have a sense of purpose. Why am I here? What as an individual human on this planet? What's my purpose? It's not go to work, it's not make money, right? It's something beyond that, right? So when you find yourselves, when you find yourself in a situation where you wake up and it's raining outside, instead of being nice and pretty and 75 degrees with no wind and no clouds, right? Everybody's happy day, how do you deal with the majority of the days you're gonna have? It's how it's understanding of a higher purpose. And then once you figure out that, okay, this is a day that's a gift, whatever I'm doing is a gift, and it's given to me to order in order to achieve or to do something. And it isn't always about me. And I think sometimes we get into this loop about, well, if I'm having a bad day, then I'm then it's about me. No, don't have a bad day, make a choice, and you can only do that when you focus on a higher purpose in yourself and what your purpose of being here is. Now, I'm hesitant to mention religion, but for me, and I think you two gentlemen, it it is all about that.

Brian 43:53

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Unfortunately, we like to find faith in rocks and trees and you know. Whatever people I always said this when I was talking about, you know, bringing this into to the Marine Corps, maybe the the total you know, Department of Defense now, is first believe in something and and then start focusing on believing in the right thing. That makes any sense. Yeah.

Willpower Vs Discipline Vs Atomic Habits

Brian 44:17

No, I agree. One of the things I've noticed, and I share with you gentlemen three weeks ago, is I've noticed in my conversations, I've noticed over the past three or four or five years, maybe, but I've noticed it really since last September that my clients are opening much more, opening up to me much more about their spiritual journey. And even asking me, you know, I mean, and I'm telling them I can't really that's not my forte, but I can I can share with you my journey and I can have open discussion every week when we talk about your journey, so you can have a good dialogue with someone um on their you know their faith. Primarily it's their Christian faith, but not always. And I just tell people if you're not there, I mean I wasn't I I was a I was born and raised Catholic, and I went atheist, then I went agnostic, then I became I came back to the Christian faith maybe 20 years ago, 15, 20 years ago. Um and if somebody's journey is different, then you can still have at least from your perspective, pray to the universe, connect with the universe. I think God is created the creator of the universe, so connect with the universe, and maybe that will get you to your to your journey toward God. And if not, you at least have something to look at you that you can look you can look to that's bigger than yourself. Um, but yeah, mine happens to be what your you two gentlemen are as well. Um I do have a question. Um I want to ask you what you guys have learned over the past 38, 39, 30, well call it the last 40 years. When it comes to this idea of willpower and determination, because I've always, you know, I've always believed that if you develop your willpower, your willpower gets stronger. And I've seen that in parts of my life. I'm a very rigid person when it comes to 5 a.m. to 7 a.m. in the morning every day, but Saturday looks exactly the same. I mean, you there's you could put a camera, a video camera on my my Tuesday, it's gonna look just like my Thursday for an hour and a half. And I build up these, you know, cold showers, doing planks and doing all these things in the morning that has built up this habit and routine. However, I've also read over the past five or several years these studies that are coming out saying that we only have so much willpower. And I'm gonna come back to your point, Troy, in a minute, um how we don't always we always we never really have a good grasp on things. We're just we're getting smarter. But I have been reading a lot and a lot of research and a lot of coaches and consultants and specialists have been saying you only have so much willpower, and if you use it too much in the day, you'll be depleted at night and you'll be more likely to fall into temptations. However, now this goes to your point, Troy, that we think we know something, then we learn something new, then we then it contradicts itself sometimes. And we're we're always trying to find the answer. I was listening to um Dr. Andrew Huberman's podcast recently with he had a guy, Dr. Kentaro Fujita, I think. He's a specialist in willpower and deter and and and things of that nature. And he's saying the studies are equal. Some studies show that the more willpower you develop in yourself, the more you'll just get stronger in other areas. But some of the studies show that if you you can deplete your willpower, you know, after a certain point of the day, where at night you'll be more likely to fall into temptations of alcohol or drugs or watching too much TV or whatever you do, you know, eating bad foods. What do you think? And I'll start with you, John, on this. What do you think? What have you learned on development of willpower, what that's done for you and the people you've coached?

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yeah, absolutely. I this is an important topic. And um something you said earlier, I would I was already I I jotted down a note about this, Brian. Uh, because the the word the common word in in common that we mostly hear from podcasters and just you know mil military leaders and people from athletics backgrounds, um, what we most commonly hear is discipline, right? Like you've got discipline, discipline, discipline. Yeah, there's uh Navy SEALs like David Goggins, you know, who can go out and run 120 miles and uh and and other other podcasters, discipline. And what what I've learned is actually the science has been done. And I learned this from Jim Lair and Tony Schwartz, the authors of the HBR article, The Making of a Corporate Athlete, but also the powerful, powerful book, The Power of Full Engagement. And uh by the way, Jim Jim Lair, as well as authoring those books, he at one time ran the Human Performance Institute in Florida that was actually uh Johnson ⁇ Johnson's human performance institute. And so Jim Lair says that the research, the science says that even for world-class people, we think of, I mentioned David Goggins, but think a lot of people go to um Kobe Bryant, and we think, man, Kobe was so disciplined. He would get up at at least by 5 a.m. every morning, and he was in the gym and he was working on his craft 20 years in, and Kobe was just so so disciplined. And um, but what Jim Lair says is that even for world-class people like David Goggins or Kobe Bryant or fill in your example here, um, only 15% of long-term success comes from discipline, self-discipline and self-motivation alone. And the reason for that is even for the Kobe Bryants of the world, the David Goggins, on a good day, self-discipline and motivation wane. They they diminish over time, over the day, or on a bad day, they don't show up at all. So if you're relying on self-divid discipline and motivation alone, you only have a 15% chance if you're if you're world class. Most of most of us um it uh most of us are not world class on most days. And so you you touched on it actually. You answered your own question. I believe um that turn it they say that it takes at least 21 days to start to form a solid habit. Um, I've I my research and my observations of my clients over the decades um says, and myself, it says that it's more like 90 days plus to really turn it into an atomic habit. So because what what do we say when when you observe someone that has great habits, what do we say? Oh, that's that Troy, that sergeant major of the Marine Corps, that senior enlisted advisor, the chairman of the joint chiefs, he is so disciplined. Yep. Well, well, is he, or does he just have atomic habits?

Brian 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

I like that a lot.

Brian 51:07

One of the things, well, I'll I'll go ahead. Oh go ahead, John.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

That's what I encourage myself and my clients to do is take those key tasks that we talk about, put them on the calendar. So you so developing yourself. You I I love your morning ritual. I also you decades ago, I I my favorite um a guy in our industry named Jim Rohrbach, I read on Horse's Mouth. If you've ever read Horse's Mouth, I remember that. Um Horse's Mouth. Jim Rohrbach had his um his morning success ritual, and it's very similar to yours, uh, but I've I've um I've given that one to clients. But um the point being is um is whether it's mind, body, spirit, put those things on your calendar and then do them and until it becomes a habit and you become unconsciously conscious. So it's turn you know, tur when it when it becomes so habitual, like getting up in the morning and brushing your teeth and taking a shower and shaving, whatever. For us, it's a quicker job now to shave, right? So for the three of us. But but we do it, we do those, you know, drive when when when we would drive to an office, I I don't do that. Um, but if for most people, drive into the offices subconscious are the atomic habits that will get us to where we want to be, mind, body, spirit, soul, turn those into atomic habits. That's my that's my challenge to the audience.

Brian 52:38

Turn it build a system around the habits that you want to create. Mind, body, spirit. Mind, body, what'd you say? Mind, body. Spirit, soul. Spirit, soul. Mind, body, spirit, soul. Wonderful. Thank you, John. I appreciate that. I took a lot of notes. Troy, what is your thought on willpower? Does I mean in determinate willpower and does it wane during the day for you, or do you find that the more things that you push, the more challenges you take on, the more you stick to your routine, that you build more sustainability in that?

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Yeah, I think it's a combination of both. Let me explain. Um, you know, we spend a lot of time uh reading, and we spent a lot of time going to training, and we spend a lot of time in our daily routines. And what what do we do all that for? Is it for our own satisfaction? Mostly. Um, my experience has been, and again, we I don't want to confuse a you know mostly uh corporate perspective and a mostly military perspective. I used to make a comment in my human performance discussions, and it was simply this no service, no military service, and I'm absolutely certain it's mostly like this in the corporate world, always a requirement for physical fitness to be fit. You may in the military have a physical fitness test, but there's no requirement for you to be fit. Let me explain. If you want to lower your cholesterol, you shouldn't eat bacon. No one makes sure that you don't eat bacon. It's a requirement. Right? If you want to be sharp in the morning, you probably should sleep. No one makes you go to bed, no one makes you get up once you graduate with your training, except in certain circumstances, and they're very minimal. So you have to test whether or not you can accomplish a task, not whether or not you're fit. Now, if you want to be fit, you develop habits. We're talking about your morning routines, right? But in in either in either thing, do you do that because you want to, or does it make you better at your job? Arguably, you can make yourself better at your job by doing that, but all of us know people who are slobs that are better at their job than we ever will be.

Brian 55:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

So do we form habits because we want to, based upon our own will to do something, the routine that makes us feel successful, therefore, it enhances our willpower. In fact, it doesn't really enhance it, it gives us we give ourselves a reward by being in that routine because our will caused us to stay in the routine.

unknown 55:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

That's self-satisfaction, that's self-gratification that's absolutely paramount for successful people. You can't go around being a failure, you have to find out what your win is. It was not by accident. I mean, I meant mentioned a minute ago, it doesn't matter what side of the coin you you you you live on, the win is what's important always. Otherwise, there's no reason to have the habit. There's no reason to achieve, there's no reason to get better. Here's the last point I would make, and this might be a purely military one, John wanted to ask you to reflect as you've been in both worlds one long ago, more so than now. But here's the here's the point I was trying to make. Um, in a purely military sense, we get up, not nobody makes you get up, but you have to be someplace at a certain time. You have to you have to pass the physical fitness test, you must go to the range, you must do your patrolling, you must make sure that you're reports and put it on time. It instills discipline and habits, right? So all this routine and education and training, this this this everyday sort of basic daily routine, we would call it, is for one purpose to make you effective when there's chaos. Right? You get stronger and run faster so that you can lift heavier things and run faster. For what reason? When you have to lift heavy things and run faster. So there's an instinct, and all of this routine is supposed to help someone who's in the leadership position be able to pause, think. Sorry for the background noise, pause, think, and react because they've trained themselves and they're physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually fit enough. Sorry. I'm not hearing to make sound to make sound, tiny decisions in a time of chaos when everyone around them has does not have a routine, has not developed themselves mentally, has not developed themselves physically, spiritually, emotionally. They are not prepared. It's only for that period of chaos where a decision maker has to make a decision. That's why we do it.

Voluntary Adversity And Doing Hard Things

Brian 57:23

And those habits establish that ability. So I'm gonna ask you a question, then both of you. Um one of the things I'm a big fan of is um um is um uh what I call it, uh voluntary adversity is every day trying to do one thing that makes that's hard for me or scares me to do. Uh and I don't do it, it's probably six days a week is when I probably average. And I work with that of my clients. I have found for me that you know, outside of my morning routine, and and obviously cold showers scare me. I've been doing them for years. I'm scared every time I go into a cold shower. When I go down and do planks in the morning, I've been doing planks for years every morning. It scares me. There are certain things I do that just scare me to do them. And I notice that by even though they're part of my habit now, I don't think about them, I just do them naturally. There's still a lot of fear, and I don't want to do them. I have to kind of push myself to get down on the floor, even though it's a habit every morning at 5.05, do my planks and jump in my cold shower. My question to that, what I call that voluntary adversity, trying something that, doing something almost every day that scares you or is new that you're a little nervous about, or maybe something that hurts you physically without wounding you physically, about you know, that a hard run or something. What do you think the benefit of that is outside of just your routine and the habit? Something trying something new on a consistent basis, or at least every day doing something hard. What does that do for you? John, I'll start with you because sure.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

Okay, yeah, I'll jump in. Um yeah, it's interesting that you pose that question that way in the context of what we're talking about in the big picture, because so but Brian Tracy, by the way, calls it eat the frog, right? Yeah. So whatever the eat the frog first first thing in the morning, eat the frog. So and Ray Kelly calls it intentionally getting outside your comfort zone, right? And so um the interesting thing though is when you do the you know, the thing about hard things, and you get a certain accompl sense of accomplishment, you get a certain feeling when you do that, right? And so you Troy talked about win, like what's important now, acronym what's important now. So you get a a a little win, or maybe it's a big win by doing that hard thing for as as the first thing, uh, or one of the first things you do. But it interestingly, back to what I was talking about, intentionally, naturally increasing positive chemicals in your brain. I I I'm not a I'm not a neuroscient, but I play one on TV sometimes. But I'm learning, I'm learning more. But I believe you by doing hard tasks and checking that off your lift, eating that frog, I think you get a shot of endorphins or dopamine or maybe both, right? And so, but I think if you do that, make it a habit of doing a hard thing first, it it strengthens your muscle. It's back to to you know, do you have willpower or do you develop willpower, or do you, or is it do you use self-discipline, or do you just work until it becomes a atomic habit? Like like uh like Troy's saying, um do you know, do we have all the answers? But that what I'm discovering, what I believe is if you make a habit of you know bundling these tools that that I'm alluding to, I've seen um my my clients you know grow and develop in um in mind, body, spirit, soul, as we're talking about. And especially I've I have one client right now um who happens to be a financial advisor. He's in Rocky River, Ohio, and he's been doing these things, um, Brian. He's and he including doing doing hard things. He's doing cold plunge and red light therapy first first thing in the morning. He reads um, he reads um uh from the stoics first thing in the morning. Um he but he's a big systems and processes guy. So he has a a system and a process for everything. And now that he has employees, he is like John. Everybody in our firm knows what to do, when to do it, why to do it, how to do it, and they're um and they're cross-training each other on on those things where applicable. Point is you know, have a system and a process for everything for the right reasons, and you know, in alignment with vision, mission, values, goals, and uh in alignment with um the why, and turn those things into atomic habits. And so I see I've seen my clients grow like to Troy's points, um mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually through the same process.

Brian 1:02:36

Does that make sense? It does, yeah. And that that begs a question for Troy, because you had mentioned the the sole purpose is to win, whatever we're doing, you know, the it is to win whatever a win is in life at that point. Do you feel, Troy, that like things like a morning routine or doing something about something that voluntary adversity, eating the frog, do you feel that it could it attributes to the ultimate win in life? Or are people just doing it for the sole purpose of doing it?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

I I well again, I'm not gonna sound like I'm the you know scientist here, the or the artist. I'm not the artist, right? But it's it's neither. It's also both.

Brian 1:03:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

I mean, let's be honest. Routine is good. Routine for what purpose? We always let me I'm gonna read you something I sent to my son this morning. It was just completely random that I did this. So my son is getting ready to go to college next year, he's gonna play football for a pretty successful D3 school, and he's doing some training on his own, right? And so I'm trying to find ways to motive. This is completely um random that this would happen, but I also think the Lord speaks to us sometimes and we don't we don't because I don't want to listen. Here's what I wrote them this morning. People are always trying to improve. They set a goal, look forward to day one to get going, and wonder why they don't improve or excel. The reason is they focus so much on day one. What they should focus on is on day two, three, or one hundred, meaning they want a day 100 result on day one and don't want to work on what it takes to get there. Or they only focus more on what they are good at and don't improve when they are weakest. So here's what I'm here's here to answer your question, Brian. Uh in my mind, it's this I'm not gonna recite books, but or or or scientists or authors or people who spend their days trying to convince us of how to work harder to achieve things, but here's here's how I digest this. Routine is good only if the routine changes. Right? So if you're gonna you didn't start by drinking water with lemon juice and salt in it in a cold plunge. You you you probably started by going, man, my mornings, I feel like crap. So I gotta change something. So you you develop a new routine. And you've added to that routine, you've taken away from that routine. The point is focusing on improvement is a routine, and you can't improve unless you change that routine to continue to move the goalpost. Right?

Brian 1:05:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

And so helpful habits, yes, atomic habits, absolutely, but not sleeping all day is an atomic habit. So what? What what's the what's how do you improve that? Right? Is it time management? Hey, that that's improvement. Get better at time management by having a routine. Last thing I would offer is uh there are many great corporations that that do not continue to be successful. We call it complacency. Complacency is also better known as routine. Uh Kodak. Just couldn't get in the digital age. Just just couldn't accept the fact that something changed and they had to change their routine. Guess where Kodak's at. Gone. Right? M T V no longer. So these things are routine. Yeah, they're they're Gone. Netflix figured it out.

Brian 1:06:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Ah. DVDs. You know what? Streaming. Ah, no more DVDs. They they they change. But they're the same thing. They have a routine of success. And so I think we shouldn't focus on the routine so much as at this time I will do this thing for it for what purpose? For improve health. Absolutely. To to have more stamina? Absolutely. I will read my Bible verse or eight pages. Doesn't matter who you talk to, read it, but do it for purpose and continue to improve upon that. Now you get to willpower. And willpower is simply this to me is when does your heart supersede your mind? Because your mind will quit before your heart ever will. Right? And so now I think we're talking about achievement. And I don't use the word willpower, but I use the word achievement, and I also wouldn't use a word in John and I had a little bit of a conversation about this the other day. What's the difference between resilience and perseverance? Resilience is survive. Perseverance is win. Thrive. Okay. I can't just say run faster, dog's coming. I have a I have a I have a you know uh a skill. I have developed resilience. No, they can go to the track, run faster. Um it's a very loose example, but my point is you can't have one without the other, but you can certainly have none of one and not be very good at the other.

Final Wisdom And Leadership Challenge

Brian 1:07:41

Perfect. Wow. You know, it's interesting as as we've talked now for a little over an hour. I have I literally have two full pages of notes. I just finished the second page of notes. I already know that we're gonna have to do a third a second podcast because I think we just touched the tip of the iceberg. I really have, you know, because one of the things I uh I I you our perspectives are all the same, or our overall are all the same with coming from different three different perspectives. I've learned from both of you today on some things that I have to I'm I want to reevaluate in what I'm doing. Like focusing more on the why is important to me. Like I do, like I I increase every every day I or not every yeah, every day, I guess. I increase like my planks by a second. So I'm always doing a little more, but I'm doing the same things every day. I'm just trying to I'll I'll hang, you know, I hang from my my my thing to stretch my back out, my shoulders, one more second every day. I add a little bit, but yet I have to I want to get back to when I'm doing the routines that I do in the morning, especially. Why am I doing those and remind myself actually why I'm doing this? Um, because you know, why I go out and you know, while you know, I'll run hills for an hour with weights on my back. Why? That's just to do it because I don't like to do it, I'll be honest with you. I don't like driving there. I love driving home, but I I'm scared when I'm driving there, and I'm in pain when I'm there, and I'm relaxed when I drive home. So I kind of do it for like I always think of do it so that the drive home from the hill will be or the park or wherever you're at will feel really good. But that's I want but I have to look at more long-term benefit. Um, because one of the things it does for me, like having that kind of structure and that routine, is my mind works like a helium balloon. And what I had a specialist on a few years ago who does uh personality testing, and I'm I test them as orange, which is just kind of um that is my anchor, like my routine that I do in the morning, and now I'm establishing an evening routine. Those are kind of the weight that keeps my helium balloon from floating away. And um and so that's kind of the why I've always thought of why I do it, but there's a bigger why, and I've got to explore that. So um can I ask each of you to share one kind of final statement before we wrap up? And again, we're gonna reschedule another one, but we I want to do the next one video um for sure. Um start with you, John. I think we started with uh you at the Troy at the beginning, um, or maybe we start with John, but we'll start with you. And what what would be one final word of wisdom, or maybe a question I didn't ask that you wish I would have asked that you want to share with the audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

Well, I would leave you with this as you've heard um this conversation today. Um, I think you see you just kind of alluded to the intersection of our three perspectives. And so um an observation is that so now in May of 2026, decision reflex may be the only organization, the only only one that I'm aware of that is now combining the neuroscience and human performance psychology, emotional and moral intelligence, practical executive business leadership, and now with Troy, elite senior level U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Armed Forces leadership doctrine into one integrated leadership development system. What Troy called the win, the really important win, is really where we're where I'm going, where decision reflex is going with our clients, with Woody Woofy. Not it's Woody Woofy isn't getting a nicer car or a bigger house necessarily. You know, to what end, for what purpose. But Woody Woofy for my clients has become more about who do I really want to become as a person, as a as a whole person. And so um you know the the Marine Corps now, or the U.S. Armed Forces SOCOM at least has more of a focus, more of an emphasis on, as you brought out from what Troy said, Brian, spiritual, behavioral, social, and physical. Well, that's the same for my clients, our clients as as well. Like they're trying to be their ideal self more often, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, behaviorally as well. And so Troy and I can help you do that more effectively and become who you ideally would like to be on your best days, mind, body, spirit, relationally.

Brian 1:12:33

So I gotta I'll reiterate decision reflex is covered. That's comprised of a lot of top-notch people. It really is, man. That's a that's a good organization you guys have going there. Um led by Chuck Walkendorfer, by the by the way, he's legend legendary. He's been on the show twice. So go back, folks, listen to Chuck was on last year and then maybe two years prior, a couple different uh phases of his life. So both great episodes. Audience loved them. How about you, Troy?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

Today, today your audience, Brian, got to we'll we'll get to hear um and understand why Chuck uh concurred with me that we had to bring Troy on on board with uh to join us.

Brian 1:13:18

So I think it was a great decision. Troy, what about you? Any final comment, words of wisdom that you want to share with the with what we call the bamboo pack?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:29

The bamboo pack. I like that. Did you patent that yet? Are we telling you?

Brian 1:13:33

I've been calling literally the first podcast I did, I did that just blurted out four and a half years ago. And I referred to them as a bamboo pack. And they when I get emails from them, they'll say so-and-so name honor memory member of the bamboo pack. So haven't we haven't patented it yet, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Yeah, that's that's yeah, you should patent that stream because uh I wrote it down. So run run fast. Don't walk in there, take it run. Um so, first of all, just thanks to for John uh really advocating on on my behalf and and showing me a path to take some of the tools that I've that I've learned and bring them to the decision reflex team. And I I'll say the same about Chuck, and that's not a shameless plug for decision reflex, so much as it is uh the following. We all know what good leadership looks like. We know people who are good leaders. What we don't always know is how they got there. And I would ask in the follow-up that we have maybe next time is it's hard for a good leader to tell you how they got there. Um you can explain a lot of habits, you can read all the books, you can recite the the historically successful path to success. But I think Brian, you mentioned something that I don't want any of the listeners to to blow past. And it's not your comments about routine, it's your comments about willpower. Right? And I think as I listened to John, and I listened to your comments, and I thought about some of my own experiences, and obviously, in a in a business or corporate sense, my examples may not always relate, but I'll offer this. There are many books written on combat. One of them is uh a book called On Killing, and it's a pretty good analysis of who does the shooting in a firefight or a battle and who does not. And it comes to find out, very few people get out of the hole or take their head out of the sand, literally, stand up, take a kneel down or what have you, and pull the trigger. Very few. Most of the ones that do that do it out of reaction, they do it out of repetition, they do it because they have to do something, or they do it out of fear. Even fewer of those are the ones that can tell the ones who aren't doing anything to do something. And I think sometimes as we try to think about developing leaders, everyone wants to be the great leader. What will that what are they willing to do to get there? It's not complicated, nor is it complex. But it takes energy, dedication, study, training, rehearsal, time, it it provides clarity. You you have all of these things you have to invest. That in that Kobe Bryant example was maybe a good one. How many times you're willing to shoot a free throw to get your pre-throw percentage to go up 0.1%? How many times will you do that? And then at what point will you decide, okay, I'm good enough, I don't need to try it one more time. That that is it's a very small population of people that will say, okay, 84.3% free throw shooting. I'll want to get 84.5. And we'll put another thousand free throws in the basket to get that 0.1%. Just a thought.

Brian 1:17:12

I love it. I can't imagine a two hundred final statements to wrap this this conversation up with today. Um, can you guys both stay on the on the line for a little bit after we close off? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Uh I'm good for about maybe 10 minutes.

Brian 1:17:26

Okay, that's fine. Gentlemen, this is not this is the first of many, as you know. I I after talking to you guys three weeks ago, I I knew there was so much content here, and I figured we'd have a hard time containing it into roughly an hour. Um, and I I can see as we're going, I'm like, we're just we're really just kind of we're we're digging down a little bit, but we got so much more to go to get to the core. So I just want to thank you both for the the first time coming on the podcast. It's been an honor to talk to both of you gentlemen.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:53

Thank you, Brian, and Bamboo Loves Podcast. We really appreciate you and everything you do. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

Yeah, thanks a lot, Brian. I appreciate it. And uh no, I speak for John here. Thanks for the what do you call it, the bamboo pack?

Listener Requests And Closing Charge

Brian 1:18:04

Yeah, that's what we call the the audience, the bamboo pack. There you go. Anyone who listens out there, yeah. Um, thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate it. So hey, everybody out there listening. I I I know we're probably gonna get a lot of letters from this one. Please, I'd love to hear what you have to say. Please email me, Brian, at Bamboo Lab3, that's the number three.com. Let me know what you thought of this. There's so much content, so much depth in here that we just have so much to explore, though. Um, please smash that like button, rate, and review us. And please, I'm gonna ask you, please, everybody, once you get this, whether you're listening to it on your through your your your phone, TV, your uh computer, share this with three people. Send it to three people you know. It could be your son, your daughter, your mom, your dad, your co coworker, your partner in life, your whatever it is. Please share this with a minimum of three people. Let's get the message of Troy and John out there. There's too much in here not to share. So all right, everyone. I'll talk to you next week. Um, appreciate you all tuning in today. In the meantime, between between now and the next time you hear my voice, please get out there and strive to give and be your best. Show love and respect to others and remember to show that back to yourself. And please live with purpose. I appreciate each and every single one of you.