"Your Best Life Starts When You Align Your Values" with Doug Lennick

https://www.think2perform.com/

Your values are already driving your decisions, even when you never stop to name them. Brian Bosley sits down with returning guest Doug Lennick to make values, purpose, and behavior change feel concrete and usable, not abstract. Doug shares what Think2Perform has learned by converting their classic values cards exercise into a free online tool, now completed by people across 146 nations. The data is striking: family ranks as the top value worldwide by a landslide, with health and happiness close behind, and that pattern reveals what people chase when life is working and what they miss when it is not. 

From there, we move into purpose, meaningful work, and the science of happiness, drawing connections to calling-based coaching and research that points to contribution over consumption. Doug challenges the idea that the goal is to work so we can stop working, arguing instead that we are healthier and happier when our days include meaning, service, and alignment. For leaders and anyone in financial services, we dig into a tough truth: acting in someone’s best interest is expected, but helping them act in their own best interest requires real behavioral change. 

Doug then explains emotional intelligence, emotional competence, and the biology behind amygdala hijack in plain language, including a sticky metaphor: your brain can’t tell the difference between a bear market and a bear in the woods. The practical tool we keep coming back to is the freeze game, a quick pause to ask what you’re thinking, feeling, and doing in your body, so you can respond instead of react. We wrap by connecting habits and systems to long-term success and showing how to turn values into verbs you can live daily. If this hits home, subscribe, share it with a few friends, and leave a rating or review so more people can find the Bamboo Lab Podcast.

Transcript

Welcome Back To Bamboo Lab

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the Bamboo Lab Podcast with your host, Teach Performance Coach, Brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life? Spinning and spinning, but not really moving forward. Are you ready to jump off and store? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you. All of you strivers, thrivers, and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at www.bamboolab3.com.

Brian 0:41

Welcome back, everyone, to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab Podcast. Folks, this is episode number 168. It's hard to believe that we've had this many amazing guests on over the past four years, four and a half years. And I want to reflect back to way back in the early days of 2022, in my first year of doing this, in episode number 38. The title is There There Is No End to Better. We had um a gentleman on that has is a legacy in the financial and human development world, a person who I got to see speak for the first time in, I believe, 1991 in Chaska, Minnesota. And uh I've read four or five of his books, and uh his podcast I just checked this morning was episode number 38, as I mentioned, from August 15th, 2022. And as of today, it has been listened to on uh five continents, all over the world. So today we have back a friend of mine, Mr. Doug Linnock. Welcome back to the Bamboo Lab Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Well, uh, thank you, Brian. Wow, that's that's impressive. Uh not surprising, but impressive nonetheless. Very, very good in impacting so many people around the world uh in a positive way. World needs it. And and the need isn't diminishing uh as the population grows. The need is growing with the population.

Brian 2:04

It really is. You know, it's it's funny, Doug, because I think back in uh I believe it was no maybe it was whenever the Iran whenever we the bombing started in Iran, whatever week that was, we were sitting at 95, we had uh subscribers in 95 countries around the world for probably eight months. And it just never moved. We didn't gain any more countries. And for some reason that week, don't I just remember because that was what the world that was the world news of the week. We went from 95 countries that we have subscribers in to 120. So we gained 25 countries in a matter of, I think it was 12 days. And I was talking about people and I said, well, it's fine, you finally hit that tipping point, you know, where it starts to spread. But you're free, you're you were back at night in uh episode number 38. So 130 episodes ago was when I interviewed you. And I remember um because I remember interviewing you, then I did the editing, then I I listened to it on my iPad or on my earbuds while I was going along that afternoon. I listened to it again. Um I remember it was But you know, back then we probably had, I don't know, five or six countries, maybe. I don't even remember. But so you were at the forefront of the podcast, and it was and people still talk about that because you know, I obviously I do a lot of coaching in the financial industry, and just about everybody knows your name. Um inside Americze, outside of Merit Prize, your your name is pretty infamous. So um, when I told a lot of my clients that I'm having you back on, everybody was like, I'm looking, they were all looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

So um and I think Well, you know, it's interesting as you were talking about the numbers of countries. One

What The World Values Most

SPEAKER_01 3:37

of the things that we've done at Think to Perform is we've taken the values exercise that's been a card exercise, a literal physical card exercise, and we turned that physical card exercise into an online card-like exercise. And that's been running now for since about the time uh we did our podcast, you and I did our podcast last time. And the result of that is we have data now from 146 nations from around the world regarding what do people actually care about? And I'll be interested in your answer to this question. When you think of the what people value all in wherever they happen to be in the world, what do you think some of the top ones might be?

Brian 4:36

Well, I have mine with my I would think family is a has got to be a big one.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Family is number one in the world by a landslide. And incidentally, if any of your listeners uh would like to do so, and we'd love for them to do so. Go online, it costs you nothing. I say knowing what you value most deeply is costless, but it's also priceless. And you can go online for free, do the exercise, and wonderfully, uh we have roughly 12,000 people a month from all over the world complete the exercise. So we have a ton of data uh uh that that basically say number one value in the world is family. What else do you think is on the list? This is kind of fun.

Brian 5:30

I would say health.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Health, yes. You that's uh that actually happens to be number two. So you're into you're in the zone here, brother. We didn't script this anybody.

Brian 5:42

Um I would think uh I I'm gonna say happiness. I don't know if or it might be there.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Well, actually, you know, the everybody's gonna think that we planned this out. We did not. Happiness is number three in the world, interestingly. So I'm gonna quit asking you because you'll get them all right. I will say that that's it. And and I would use this uh narrative to kind of describe how I personally summarize the data. What the data tell me is that people all over the world value people, they value their life making a difference, they value living it the right way, and they value being rewarded for it, but the reward is different than monetary, could include monetary, but the big payoff is health and happiness. It turns out the big reward that people get for aligning their real behavior uh with those things, those other values, is health and happiness, or healthier and happier. So, and and everybody is uh, you know, it makes sense, you know, it's kind of the great duh. Either people in the world are happy or they'd like to be. Why not? Uh, but people all over the world care about family. Uh, but how we go about that sometimes, and I I personally believe that because the values of the world are very similar, and the resources available around the world are so dissimilar, we have at the same opportunity incredible opportunity for conflict and unification. So values can be the great unifier, and but it can also create conflict because we value the same things and in order to be and the behaviors that go with that uh can uh can sometimes be destructive if we don't understand it quite right.

Brian 8:08

I agree. You know, I I do have a little bit of a cheat code here though, Doug, because every I wouldn't say everyone, but I think 95% of my clients, when they first start working with me, within the first two sessions, I make them, I ask them, I recommend, I lead them to go to think to perform and do the values exercise. So I get to see a lot of things. Yeah, you're bet welcome. Uh because you know, I I try to get people to create it on their own. I used to back in the day because I always had your deck of cards. I had two of them on my desk for years, two stacks of those. But when you're talking to someone remotely, I I couldn't do it anymore as effectively. So um now with that exercise, it's so much easier.

Purpose Work And Real Happiness

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Well, and you know, I combine that exercise, and the inspiration actually behind that exercise was Richard Leiter's calling card exercise. Because when I first met Leiter and he took me through the calling card exercise, uh and uh that the power of doing that, and then we had this alignment model, and and we thought, well, golly, we should convert uh the values part of the exercise into a card exercise. And it's been one of the most successful things we've ever done. And what I encourage people to do is do both exercises. If you if you have an opportunity, you get the calling card exercise, which is from the Inventure Group. That's uh Richard Leiter, and Richard Leiter is the author of The Power of Purpose. And Richard, he's like, I'll be 74, he'll be 82. So we're we're eight years apart. But he studied under Victor Frankel, Man's Search for Meaning, and his work is so much on the concept of purpose. And as you think about purpose and values and all of those things, and really putting meaning into life, people want to have meaningful lives. And and you look at what Arthur Brooks is doing at Harvard University, uh, he's teaching an MBA class on the science of happiness, and some of his research, not shockingly, will come out and say similar things, that people's happiness depends a lot on their contribution to the world around them, not on what they get, but what they give. I mean, and that of course sounds counterintuitive. And and and in the world, uh in the Western civilization, we're we're encouraged to believe that we're working so that we don't have to work. That's a mistake. We're working because we get to work. That's how we get to express that we want to do something meaningful. And when we have nothing meaningful to do, our misery factor goes up. And in order to reduce that factor, we do stupid things to make ourselves feel better. So and so stupid is as stupid does. I think somebody said that in the movie.

Brian 11:18

So I'm gonna just recommend everybody go on to think I'll include a link to Think2Performs website on the in the show notes today. So look below the show notes of the notes, it'll be at the top. Click on it and go to their values cards exercise um and do this exercise because it's it I've used it probably I've had it mine for 20 years or whatever. Um, and I still have mine at the top of my when I read my True Peak Identity every morning, that's the first thing I start with, is my my five values.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

So um well, and since this is episode 168, and we're in the real year 2026, and you go back to to the previous episode we did in 2022, we've now time dated this. I will tell you this as it relates to my thinking in the real

Values-Based Decisions And Best Interest

SPEAKER_01 12:04

year 2026. I have in front of me uh I I have my folder, and I I fill up legal pads with notes throughout the course of the year. Uh and I and and writing uh is the mirror of the mind, and and my dad taught me that, and my memory gets so much better when I write things down. So I still write things down, and on this folder, and it's the same, I open my folder up every day wherever I'm at, and the same thing I look at it, the same thing every day, and it says 2026 themes and concepts. Now there's some scribbles on here, and the way I've been thinking about it, uh, I actually started, I wrote something uh that didn't become one of my themes, but I borrowed it from uh Warren Buffett's remarks late last year when he was announcing his stepping down at age 95 uh from his role at uh Berkshire Hathaway, staying there but no longer going to be CEO. And he said in those remarks, kindness is costless but also priceless. Kindness is wow and and so what I wrote down uh right after that is knowing what one values most deeply is costless but also priceless, and that became my second theme for the year, my first theme for the year, because I came to realize that everybody at all times is making values-based decisions, but many of those, probably most of those, in fact, quite certainly most of those, are not made after first reflecting on our most deeply held values, but values and so concept theme number one values one way or another make all the difference. So when I cheat on an exam, I am valuing I I might upon further deeper reflection at a very deep level value integrity, but in that moment I value passing that exam and I even rationalize my cheating. I say I really I know I know this uh answer and I just can't think of it right now, and Brian knows that I know, so if I just look at his exam or however one cheats in today's world, but there's people still find ways to cheat, right? Cheating cheating didn't go out of style, they didn't come up with a computer that prevents cheating, they came up with new ways to cheat, and and so values one way or another make all the difference. Theme one knowing what one values most deeply is costless but also priceless, theme two, and theme three, and this is where we're at today, what you and I are doing right now, Brian. The moral imperative, and this is me talking to me, the moral imperative is to manage self, that's me, and to influence others to act in our respective enlightened self-interest. So, and here's what I tell people in financial services they talk about fiduciary and this and that, that's always fun. But that's of course, of course, I should act in your best interest. Of course, you should expect that of me. Harder than acting in your best interest, however, is getting you to act in your best interest. That's harder. And I tell that to my clients all the time. I'm gonna act in your best interest. The question I got is will you be able to do it too? Because if you don't act in your best interest, and getting you to do it is the hard part because it requires behavioral change. This is the hard part for me, it's the hard part for everybody. Changing my behavior isn't easy, and that's where values, deeply held values, allow for me to know which ones to repeat and which ones to change. And that's kind of powerful. Anyway, that was kind of a fun little deep tour. I didn't know we would go down that route.

The Hard Part Of Choosing Five

Brian 17:02

No, I like that what I found, and I what I try to do is the values exercise every few years. I probably have done it five times. Um, because I I struggle with going from 15 or that big pile, you know, you discard the the what, then you go to 15, then you go to 10, then you go to five. And that's it's hard because so, folks, what you do in this exercise, for those who haven't seen it, is you have these different cards, so to speak, on the computer, and there's they're all values. So you put them in a discard pile or a keep pile. Like one might be happiness or faith or wealth or integrity or honesty. And you and you put them in this large pile, then the next thing you do is you you say, okay, now take your top 15 and keep those in the pile and move them, you know, then you go to your top 10, and you're then you go to your top five. The hardest part is to discard a a value that you know is a value to you. It just isn't in your top five. But because my mind says, well, if I take away integrity and don't put it in my top five, that means I don't value integrity. That's what my mind says. So, Doug, how do you remedy that? Because if I'm if I don't like I and I I've done that before.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

And um well, at the end of the day, what happens is most decisions allow for you to make the decision that you want to make. It's only when you have a really critical decision, when you really have to have trade-offs. It's kind of like your eye test. You know, when you go in for your glasses, I'm about to have cataract surgery. And so when you go in, they they they do the this or that. Does this look better or that? Well, that one. How about this or that? That one. That's what this is about. Because at the end of the day, there will be some times I will have to make a very crucial decision. And it is at that moment I want to use my most deeply held values to guide me. Values are simply guidelines for behavior. They're nothing unless put into action. You look up all the disasters in business, they they came from companies that had praiseworthy values on the wall, and they had the lack of praiseworthy behaviors in the workforce, including the executive suite. So you go back to the some of the stuff that was happening that was around when Fred Keel and I wrote uh Moral Intelligence. You had Enron and Global Crossing and Tycho. Those companies have all been replaced by different uh companies. Uh, there's even, I won't name it, but there's even a name of a company that's in business to cheat other companies. That's their company. I mean, and it's a it's a real company, which is incredible to me. But that's what's going on, and we need to have a moral compass, and we need to have some emotional competence as real human beings to navigate ourselves through this world that we've created. We have created, humans have created the world we live in. We're a creator. That's what we do. And the human condition is such that we will always see problem and opportunity in our circumstance. So we can't avoid it. So if I were the genie in the bottle and you came to me, Brian, and said, Genie Doug, I I would like uh to you to grant me these three wishes. And then I grant you your three wishes. By the end of the day, and you living in the world you wished for, you would see what could be better. That's your condition. You're not the only one who has it. There's 8,300,000 million, of us. You know, and it's our condition. Like, think everybody, you know, people that are in the more and and we always say, well, I'd love that person's problems. No, you wouldn't. Because suffering is the great equalizer. We're human beings.

Four Human Gifts Beyond AI

SPEAKER_01 21:26

And we've been given four gifts that artificial intelligence does not have. And we should utilize these gifts. The first of those gifts, I call them Mount Rushmore. And all of our audience, not all of our audience, I'm guessing there's some AI listening in, but the majority of your audience are humans, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

But they we we think about our own our own intelligence. We we we have gifts that artificial intelligence. Intelligence doesn't have. Here's the Mount Rushmore, according to Doug Lannock. Somebody else can have their own Mount Rushmore. Gift one, life itself. Artificial intelligence is not alive, it's artificial. So we're alive. Gift number two, a conscience. Those people in those nations all over the world that you now have data from. You've got people signed up and taking subscriptions for 120 countries from around the world. Those people all have consciences all over the world, regardless of religious beliefs, even if they don't believe in a religion at all. They have a conscience. All humans do, it turns out. Third gift, free will. You don't have to follow your conscience. You know right, you know wrong. You know when you cheated, you cheated. You know when you stole, you stole. And your moral compass might have suggested you should not have done that. And then you did it anyway. And probably you did that because of the fourth gift. And that fourth gift is this gift of emotions. And you you will get to see, you will get to feel all the range of emotions. If people haven't seen it yet, they should see those movies that were out a few years ago called the first one came out called Inside Out, and then another one came out a few years later called Inside Out 2. And it was really this little kid who went from age six to age 13, and the emotions that a six-year-old experiences, emotions a 13-year-old experiences, and an emotion now I'm 74, I'll be 74 at the end of the month. And and one of the things I found out when my dad was 74, because I interviewed him, I don't know if it was exactly that age, but I was asking him, I said, Dad, out of curiosity, during the course of the day, how do you feel? And he said, What do you mean? I said, you know, how do you feel emotionally during the course of a day? He said, I don't know what you mean. I said, you know, do you feel like sad or happy, excited, upset? What? And he goes, Doug, are you okay? I said, Yeah, I am, but I'm just kind of wondering what about emotions? I have a hypothesis. And he said, Well, I feel all of those things. And I said, That's what I saw. I said, What I did what I've been learning is that all the emotions that I had experienced by the time I was a late teenager, I just experience over and over and over again. I don't get new ones. I still get to feel happy, I still get to feel sad, I still get angry, I still get excited. I had all those already. And that's why the premium is learning how to deal with the emotions, not the stuff that stimulates the emotions. Learn how to deal with emotions. That's what we call emotional competence. So we have emotional intelligence and we have emotional competence. Intelligence is the emotions themselves. They're a form of intelligence. They're telling you something. I'm afraid. What's it telling you? I'm there's something to be afraid of, that's what it's telling me. And I have cognitive intelligence. Those are two different intelligences, and then moral intelligence is a third. The differentiators are moral and emotional. And so what we want to be able to develop in human beings so that we can harness those four gifts that we've been given. Because we need to harness our moral intelligence and become morally competent. And I will be the first to admit I have been morally intelligent and morally incompetent in the same moment, meaning I did something I knew was wrong when I did it. I'm a human being. And in the in that moment, I didn't handle it well. So somewhere in there, my emotional competence didn't support me well enough to do the right thing at that moment. And when I married the two, my moral intelligence and my emotional intelligence, and developed some behavioral competencies, then I become a great leader of self and a great leader of others. But I am fallible. I will not achieve perfection. I sure as heck can uh uh and anybody who's heard me before or knows me, anybody who knows me, my family especially, they know this man is far from perfect.

Brian 27:03

Well, that's a that's that's a that's an interesting concept because one of the things I I'm reading a book right now called The Mountain Is You. It's a great book. I've listened to it twice um on Audible, and then I I've been reading it for like two months, six weeks now. I don't know why I'm going so slow, and it's a very easy read. And she really talks in there about the ultimate goal is to not avoid our emotions. The ultimate goal is not to feel those emotions but react better to them or because of them. You know, a lot like the philosophy of stoicism to some degree is like we're gonna feel these emotions, and bad shit's gonna happen to us at times, and good stuff's gonna happen to us, and just our reaction is what counts. It's what we do next with it. And I I love that because I find myself over the years, I've been I've run from emotions and I've hit from emotions, and I've I've I've drank myself away from emotions and I've exercised my way through emotions. I remember you saying that four years ago, and I just realized that sometimes sit with those emotions and just learn how to how to I don't like the word react, but that's it, that's the word I'm gonna use, react better to them and let them feel them and and like it so is that emotional competency or is that emotional intelligence? Yes, that's emotional competence.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Well, what you have it two things, a couple of things I'll say just about emotional intelligence. It's a couple of headlines for everybody that are hopefully easy to remember or listen back. But number one, emotional intelligence is real, it's a real form in of intelligence. Number two, it is not cognitive, which is confusing because we're talking about it. Number three, it in other words, the emotion we feel is in and of itself a form of intelligence. We've just learned to label them. We can call them something. But emotional intelligence emerges in human beings before cognitive intelligence. So babies will exhibit it, uh, where we won't be exhibiting a heck of a lot of cognition yet. We will be exhibiting emotional intelligence. So emotional intelligence, it's real, it's not cognitive, it sacrifices accuracy for speed. It's kind of designed to be your first responder. You know, so when the bomb goes off, it's the one that's going to try to save you. That's that guy. That's your emotional intelligence. And your emotion is signaling to your being what might be going on outside of you. That's the intelligence.

Amygdala Hijack And Two Bears

SPEAKER_01 29:50

So if I feel afraid, there's something going on that I'm afraid of. And by the way, it's really important for those of the people that are in this, uh, that are financial people that pay attention to you. It doesn't matter if they are or not, but emotional intelligence cannot tell the difference between a bear market and a bear in the woods. I mean, the both both bears, the bear market for investors, people who don't invest aren't bothered by bear markets. But people who do invest are. You know, the bear market scares them. And the bear in the woods will scare you, whether you believe in bear markets or not, or whether you're afraid of bears or not. If you encounter a real bear in the live, your body will biologically help you achieve fear. Don't worry about it. I wonder if I'd be afraid. You will be afraid, guaranteed. Especially if that bear comes menacingly at you. Fear factor heightens up even greater. Now, an irrational response from both bears is to run. When I run from the bear in the bear market, I simply lose my money. When I run from the bear in the woods, I lose my life. Unless I'm fortunate enough to be running with Doug Lennock, and I'm uh Brian, I'm Brian Bosley, and I I'm faster than Doug, and he's a hell of a guy, but he just was a little slow. And the bear caught him. I'm sorry. And I'm here to talk about him now. He was a good man.

Brian 31:37

He res confused. You know, a funny a funny side note to that, Doug, 15, 16 years ago, I was actually uh I always say mauled by a bear, but it's a big exaggeration. I was beat up by a bear at a bear zoo in the upper peninsula of Michigan um by about a 75-pound black bear. I mean, it didn't do anything, it scratch it scratched me and bit me, but it it was just it was uh surface wound. So but I can say Tycoon. Was I lying or did you actually achieve fear? Oh my gosh, yeah. It because anywhere it threw me down within a split second, and thankfully they grabbed it and and they had it chained. They chained it. So they had it by a chain in the collar, but we were taking our picture with it. It just it just wanted to get more fruit loops out of my hand, and I was out of fruit loops in my hand while they were taking a picture, and it just it grabbed my it bit my my f my elbow and pulled me, and then it sc it clawed the back of my neck and threw me down. But oh yeah, the adrenaline was trust me, I jumped up and I scattered away real quick.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, I had the occasion on a canoe uh in outage um to see a bear come out of the woods as we had just uh finished the portage and we were in an aluminum canoe, and I was in the uh uh stern because I was the most experienced canoeist of the two of us. And uh when the bear came out, um it was going to enter the water. We were probably maybe 10 yards from the shore, and any and then I just uh suggested that we remain seated. I didn't want to slump the canoe, and then I took my paddle out and just did the the thing, you know, I made a lot of noise, you know. So uh, which is what do if if um that gives you a chance. And the bear just turned around and left, never threatened us or anything. There was no, but I was still my heart was pumping like you can't believe it. And and in your case, your your heart was pumping more than mine. So this is real stuff, and so that's why each of us as individuals, it's incumbent upon us to become aware of this so that we can do something about it. Since we know that emotions will recur, we can learn to e think emote. We don't have to emote. We don't have to feel it do it. We have time most of the time to think, but in the case of life or death, like you were in, you don't. And and your body will react really quickly, and it's supposed to. It's very fast. So our emotional intelligence is activated by outside stimuli in twelve milliseconds. Think of how fast twelve milliseconds must be. It's faster than I can say the T in 12. I can't say I can't say the whole twelve. That's how fast twelve milliseconds is. Joel Ledoux, New York University, by the way, is the researcher behind us, not Doug Lenning. And so it was his research, 12 milliseconds. Now, what happens is if, and and Dan Goldman popularized the term amygdala hijack, if what happens, and the amygdala is part of the limbic system, which is part of the emotional center, if you will, if what that outside message stimulates that sphere like you were experiencing, it does it so fast, 12 milliseconds, it's sending involuntarily messages to the rest of the brain, the habit center of the brain, and it's got it's an alarm bell. It's like trouble, trouble. And what the what the habit center then does is it secretes chemicals biologically designed to restrict cognitive thought. The body does not want you to think so much anymore. It wants you to get out of danger emote. So if you could think of your emotion circle as the moon and your thought circle as the sun, what happens is in that high intensity, the moon moves in front of the sun, you experience a partial eclipse. You cannot think quite clearly, and your biology is getting you down to three choices. You've heard of fight, flight, or freeze. That's it. And that's it. You know, now you were luckily in the presence of other people who could do other things.

Brian 36:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But that's all you had.

The Freeze Game Reality Check

Brian 36:38

Well, can I ask you a question? When you look at that instinct that we that kind of that's almost an instinctive response. And I notice a lot of times when I'm driving in traffic and someone cuts me off, or my you get that right away, that it made you a hijack, and you're I get the I I feel this chemical rush in my head and my body, almost a tingling feeling. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Where I fall Yeah, let me give everybody this is the life-changing game, Brian. You may have practiced this, you may still practice it. We may have talked about it in over our time together over the years. It's the freeze game.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

There's literally two things. If if we if it boils down to two things that people actually want to try to do something after listening to us today, one thing is do the values exercise. We've already talked about that. And then I would add something to that later. If you remind me, I'll tell you what that is. The other thing is to practice the freeze game. This is just a check into my reality. Reality is a combination of three things. Thought, your cognitive thoughts are real. Whatever you're thinking, all of you who are listening to us right now are thinking your thoughts. They are real. They're not the same as mine. I might be stimulating you to think the thought you're thinking, but the thought you're thinking is totally yours. It's real. And you are experiencing emotions. The emotions you experience are real, and you are physical. You are a physical being with a cognitive brain or a cognitive mind, excuse me, in a physical brain. The mind operates within the brain, it's not the brain. And then you have these emotions. That's our reality. When that reality gets stimulated from the outside, it stimulates all of us, all 8,300,000,000,000,000 people, stimulates all of us emotionally first. And what you get to do if you practice the freeze game, the freeze game is just a practice you practice throughout the day. Hit the pause button. What am I thinking? How am I feeling? What am I doing? Physically, what's happening? What's my heart? You know, you start paying attention. Is my heart racing? Am I calm? Am I what's going on? Are my hands cold? Are they hot? Uh are my feet on the floor? Are my eyes closed? Am I what's my face saying? I people don't pay attention to themselves. Practice paying attention to yourself. It'll change your life. If you do two things, the freeze game is a reality check. The values reflection is an ideality check. Family, happiness, wisdom, integrity, service, and health. That's six, by the way. Those are my values. Love your family, Doug. Be happy, seek wisdom, behave with integrity, do something of service for somebody else today, please, and make healthy choices. I am the verb in my life, not just the proper noun. The mistake I've made most of my life is treating myself as a proper noun, giving myself too much respect as a proper noun, and not giving myself enough respect as the verb. I am what I do, and so are you. I am not what I hope to be. I am what I do. And when I drank too much, I drank too much. That was me. And it's me now, not drinking too much. Same guy. Same guy except I'm not drinking too much. It was really me then, it's really me now. I'm more ideal now. But there's no end to better. I think that was the our our podcast, and I think that's what you called it. That's still true.

Brian 40:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

I'm not done getting better, nor are you. You're young. You have youth on your side. You're not even 60 years old. You're not even eligible for some of the benefits that age gets you. I'm sorry, but you'll get there. Just take your time.

Brian 41:09

Well, I I have no hair, my beard is white, so I'm on the way.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

You know, that's what I'm looking when you said we should do this show and that you just wanted to get me talking. I hope uh you accomplish that you could get me talking about it.

Brian 41:22

I do have another

Habits Build Long-Term Success

Brian 41:23

question though, because I've got a uh this quote that Ray Kelly shared with me back in March when I was speaking with him. The it was the quote of yours, he said something you say a lot that it really resonated with me. And I don't know the exact I think it was um I think it was 10 per um long-term success is only 10% self-discipline and motivation and 90% systems. Is that one of yours?

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Well, it's happening, it's kind of he uses systems, I use habits, but we work off each other and we learn from one another. His five levels of leadership, by the way, I think are better than the ones that are more popular in the market, so that's for Ray Kelly. But what I say, and I got this from Jim Lair and Tony Schwartz when they were working together in the Human Uh Performance Institute uh in uh Florida, and uh and they wrote the book, uh they wrote the article, The Making of a Corporate Athlete, and then the book, The Power of Full Engagement. And one of the things they shared with me, and this is was kind of funny, we'll get a kick out of this, Brian. I'm down at their campus, and you know, and I was doing some Leninisms, and and I was they and you know, and and Jim was asking me about stuff, and and I was saying, I've always kind of thought about being successful is a lot like writing a unicycle. You've got two pedals, one of them is uh is self-discipline, uh, and the other is motivation, and that when you're motivated, everything is fine, but when motivation comes down to the bottom, uh self-discipline is up there, and then you have to use that and so forth. And Jim looked at me and he said, Doug, that that's really cute, but it's wrong. I said, What? And he said, That's cute, but it's wrong. I said, Well, what's the deal? He said, What's the deal is when it comes to self-discipline, the most exceptionally self-disciplined people can get up about uh 15% of their total energy under the umbrella of self-discipline, meaning making themselves do something they don't normally do or stopping themselves from doing something they normally do. The average person's got about 5%. It's not self-discipline, and you already know on a good day motivation goes away. That's what I told him. And he said, and I said, So what's the deal? And they said, the deal is habits. Most of what we do, we do because you did, and so the real game is played in habits or as Ray would say in systems. Your systems become your habits become a system. That's my habit. I that's my system. You know when this happens I do that. And so most of and and what what you do is ultimately you convert. You take your self-discipline the little bit that you have and you apply it to build a habit. You build a system around that and then you do it again until you build your game plan for doing your own key activities so that you can achieve in your life what you want for yourself aligned with who you ideally want to be your values. You hold yourself accountable. That's why I say love your family Doug. Be happy I'm a happy guy most of the time I'm not happy all the time but I'm happy most of the time and one of the reasons I'm happy most of the time is most of the time I'm aligning my behavior with my values. When I was drinking too much I was out of alignment period not end of story but period there you go.

Brian 45:23

Well where I yeah the reason that hit me so hard back in March when Ray said that because um I have some friends and I'm my most of my clients think I'm a very disciplined person and I'm not but I do disciplined things I'm a very structured person I get up at the same time I have a lot of habits you have exactly you have habits Brian well once he said that you know like I don't mind going out you know I do a lot of I take only cold showers I do certain exercises every day and I read a certain amount I journal I do all these same things every day which takes about two hours two and a half hours total out of my day maybe two and a half but it and I when he said that to me it hit me. Yeah Brian you're not so here's where I why it can't hit me. I thought I'm a fraud because people are saying you're really disciplined and I'm going no I'm not but then when Ray said your quote I realized I'm not a fraud I'm still not a suit I'm not relying on my discipline to do these things.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

I'm relying on my habits and because all of exactly right well you people look to me and they say you wrote the book Moral Intelligence you must be morally intelligent. I am but I'm also morally incompetent I mean I am the fallible human being as the great late Larry Wilson taught me in his lifetime FHBs and that goes back to the gifts that we talked about. I always love doing your now I can say I always love doing your show because I've done it twice.

Brian 46:50

You've

Turn Values Into Daily Verbs

Brian 46:51

done it twice okay you said before we hang up you wanted to bring up you want me to bring up the second part something about the values exercising.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yeah what I do in order to trigger values reflection I'll do it right now except I'm I I won't do it.

Brian 47:06

I've got it in my hand I'm holding a bottle of water and what I would do if we were on television in front of everybody is I would start drinking this water and while I'm drinking this water this would be what would be running through my mind love your family be happy seek wisdom behave with integrity do something of service for somebody else today please and then I would set that water bottle down I would smile at the screen and I would be saying to myself you made one just now put verbs be the verb in your life not just the proper noun remember if you put verbs in front of your values you become that my friend Marshall Otto says believe that you can belong with a bunch of people who believe with you and then become that you can become that you can be your values your values in action is you I am what I do I love my family that's me I am happy that's me does that make sense it makes a lot of sense it really does and so the last uh question I'll ask you is um when you're looking at your values when a person does this exercise do they want to play do they want to think of the values they currently have or can they say I don't know if I have that value if I practice that value but I want to practice that value can be can they should be looking at ideally what do you care most about okay and you can say you know I I care I really do care about but I don't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

That doesn't mean you don't care.

unknown 48:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

I mean a lot of people say they they care about their family they just don't do anything.

Brian 49:04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

And then some people do the wrong things because they say they care about their family. Yeah and and that's why all of these things become important as we put them together because we we must let our conscience work. Our conscience will tell us there there is a right and there is wrong and we need to let that work and we need to know that our emotions are going to confuse us from time to time our emotions they're not they're not they're there to be a form of intelligence but they're telling us something that might might not be accurate. Remember they sacrifice accuracy accuracy for speed they're very fast.

Brian 49:49

The cognitive part of our intelligence doesn't get messaged for 40 milliseconds which is fast but it's three and a half times slower than 12 you know um I w I I just want to say this Doug I first came I first saw you speak in 1991 or I think it was 92 actually no it was 90 I don't know it was day daybreak with Doug if you remember the Daybreak with Doug's in Chaska.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Do you remember doing those I do and I just did my values reflection while you were saying that I do remember daybreak with Doug.

Brian 50:23

And you you afterward you handed everybody everybody got a cassette tape and of of not that particular talk but one of your other day break with Doug you know by primarily the same talk and I remember listening to that thing dozens of times in my in my car driving to work driving up north to see my daughter and um I thought about that journey of like since that 24 25 years ago when I first came in contact with you until today and then four years or two years after I saw you speak I was given a copy of the simple genius you um and I have the original copy here that I was given back in what was nine when I became a uh when I went into leadership under John Hant so I think that was 93 actually or 94 maybe. And I I read this book every year. I read it probably in January of this year. And I look at it right now and it's got dog tail dog ears. It's got so much writing in the book you know that um and I I because I just took a lot of the things that you wrote and I put my own notes in there to remind me of how to use this or how it connects with some of my content that I'm coaching my clients with and um the the two bridge theory I've used that with myself a couple of times as he's you know he's talking about you know his relationship with friends and things like that and and and the obviously the dishrig theory that was so prominent when I was at American Express um in um in IDS we always talked about by the way that book was created first in my mind 50 years ago 1976 that was the year my son was born I wrote most of the book as you saw in the foreword of the or I wrote a little bit at the beginning of the book in 77 and 78 but I didn't publish it until 1984.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

I was 32 at the time but most of those concepts were developed when I was in uh when I was a child and uh and I'm in the process I'm I'm working on now you can I'll I'll share it here to your listeners I actually have in the works uh the simple genius you by the way you is the reader the simple genius you is back and I have a subtitle and the subtitle is loving life even the unlikable parts when will that be ready that's where you win is when you start to realize even the bad times are good you're alright. I when is that coming out oh it'll come out I hope uh um I'm I'm hopeful either late this year or next year.

Brian 53:00

Well we'll have to get you back on and when we do next time we will be it'll be a video um we're we are going to video um podcasting so next time it'll be by video like where we'll see each other's faces and you can do your you can do the values exercise trigger so you can smile at the camera.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Yeah thank you I will look forward to it thanks for letting me do this I know you have to go I do too and thanks to all your listeners for listening.

Brian 53:27

Doug it's always a pleasure I'll be reaching out to you the next 24 hours to kind of give you a I'll I'll get you a copy of this episode as soon as I get it done editing. Okay thanks my friend thank you my friend have a great rest of your Tuesday you you too bye bye Doug

Final Takeaways And How To Share

Brian 53:43

Wow everybody um just to let you know Doug is off the air we both we had a wrap up supposed to be right at two o'clock central time um so we went a little over and I really appreciate the time and for those who know have who know of Doug you know of Doug. He's been around the industry and he's been around the behavioral sciences and the leadership realm around the world for so many decades. Really well respected and one of the most amazing men I've ever met I've I hear nothing but amazing things from everybody who's met him. I've had the pleasure of knowing him for 30 some years now. His latest book Don't wait for someone else to fix it co-authored with Chuck Wackendorfer who's also a great friend of mine fantastic book. This was I think this was published just um 2025 I believe it came out I've got it here in my hand but um that's the book The Simple Genius You and Don't Wait for Someone Else to Fix It Moral Intelligence I think Financial Intelligence Doug has written he's got a ton of books out there on Amazon um uh yeah Moral Intelligence I believe Financial Intelligence and how to how to get what you want and remain true to yourself is another one of his books The Responsible organization being a caring leader the guy's got I think seven books published right now and co-authored or co-authored so anyone anyway just um click on uh think to perform I'll include the link here go do the values exercise it's so wonderful you know practice uh the freeze the freeze game where you throughout the day what am I currently thinking what am I currently currently feeling and what am I currently doing and look at you know what's my face doing what is how's my body language look how's my posture you know really connect with reality for what that is for you at that moment I've done that type of exercise several times throughout my life and it does ground you because one of the things I realize is when I'm in a fear-based moment or an emotion or I'm feeling scared or insecure um especially I when I do that exercise I realize right there because I'm I'm putting my I'm doing a true audit on myself at that moment I realize right now I'm perfectly safe I'm I'm in a good place 99.9% of the time at that moment I'm very secure and stable and safe. So exercise do the freeze game I'll I'll include a link to the extra the values exercise on the in the show notes today. Everyone it's been a pleasure talking to you again. I think I'm gonna take a couple of weeks off um from podcasting um so you might not have another episode for a couple of weeks um unless I can sneak a couple in there but I think I might take a couple of weeks off um but we'll get some more out there and we'll be back to you know we've been doing some consistent exercise uh episodes we'll be back to that in a couple of weeks um please hit that like button please rate and review us um and um subscribe and please share this episode with two to three four or five friends of yours family members colleagues coworkers boss students teachers whoever you might find in your life that you think listen to could use um some of Doug's amazing wisdom I'll talk to you all very very soon in the meantime please get out there and strive to give and be your best please show love and respect to others and back to yourself and go out there and live with your why your true purpose until next time I appreciate each and every single one of you.