FAQs with Ronald Blue Trust Financial Experts

In this episode, we listen in on an insightful conversation featuring two representatives of the Ronald Blue Trust Houston office, private wealth advisor, Ryan Anderson, and financial planner, Blake Mankin. Together, they discuss frequently asked financial questions and concerns, such as how to teach your kids about money, what it means to be a good steward, how to have peace in your marriage with finances, and much more. Get your pen and paper ready as Ryan and Blake give some helpful tips on financial planning.

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The information in these podcasts is provided for general educational purposes only.  It is not intended as specific individual advice. The clients’ experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients and they are also not indicative of future performance or success. Opinions expressed may not be those of Ronald Blue Trust.

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Transcript

Welcome to the Wisdom for Wealth for Life podcast. Let's bridge the gap between your faith and your finances. At Ronald Blue Trust, we apply biblical wisdom and technical expertise to help you make wise financial decisions. Our goal is to help you leave a lasting legacy. In this podcast, you will hear inspiring stories, practical tips and encouragement from the Ronald Blue Trust family and special guests along the way. Welcome to the Wisdom for Wealth for Life podcast. 

The information in this podcast is provided for general educational purposes only. It is not intended as specific individual advice. The clients' experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients, and they are also not indicative of future performance or success. Opinions expressed
 may not be those of Ronald Blue Trust. 

In this episode, we have a very insightful conversation featuring two representatives of the Ronald Blue Trust Houston office. Private wealth advisor, Ryan Anderson, and financial planner, Blake Mankin. Together they discuss frequently asked financial questions and concerns such as how to teach your kids about money, what it means to be a good steward, how to have peace in your marriage and finances, and much more. Get your pen and paper ready as Ryan and Blake give some helpful tips on financial planning. Let's listen in now. 
 
 Well, welcome to the Wisdom for a Wealth for Life podcast. Today's topic is top
 client questions that we get. And this is coming from the Houston office. I'm Blake Mankin. I'm a financial planner and the Houston office working with Ryan Anderson, advisor. So Ryan, maybe give a little bit of your background.
 
 Yeah. So I've been helping families the last ten years. I've been helping them to live generously and make wise decisions around money and leave a lasting legacy. And a lot of the questions that we're going to talk about today really fit in neatly with what we do. 

Perfect. Yeah.
 
 And I'm relatively new to the organization. I came to Ronald Blue Trust about six months ago and previously had worked with donors to Christian ministries as a fundraiser.
 
 So I'm new to Ronald Blue Trust, but we've known each other a long time and I've seen the work that you've done with clients and really been a fan from afar. So it's great to be able to work together now. But in today's topic, we're talking about client questions that we get. Some of those top questions that we get. And the first one - we'll just dive right in - is a lot of times clients are just trying to figure out, how do I teach my kids about money in a way that will help them and not hurt them? And this isn't even about necessarily estate planning or the technicalities about that, but just practically, how do I teach my kids about money? Both of us have young kids so we can speak to it from that perspective.
 
 So, I mean, practically, how do you talk to your young kids about money and then even how we answer that for our clients? Yeah, practically it changes depending on how old your children are, but the themes of what we're going to talk about are the same. The themes of communicating, the importance and the value of money, they don't change.
 
 If you're if you have a six-year-old or a 45 year old that you're trying to help out with money. And so starting at the smaller, smaller age of six, which is where my oldest is right now, Asher, there's a couple of things that we try and do regularly. So the first is just communicate about money. A lot of families are hesitant to talk about money because they don't want to make it feel weird. They don't want their kids to feel like they're rich or entitled. And so I think just having the conversation and being intentional to do that is the first step that you can take.
 
 What it looks like in our family, we before anything else, the first thing we started teaching our kids was God owns it all. He's given us all this money. So anytime they're talking about toys or anything that they want that they think
 is theirs, we always bring it back to you. Okay, well, whose is this, really? And it's God's. And that's the main thing that we try to communicate to them. So everything is God's. He is gracious enough to give us everything, and he expects us to use it in a way that honors him. And so a lot of the times that means sharing with a six year old, three year old. 

That's great. And in our family, we do something similar. We have a six-year-old as well. So we're right in that same stage of life. But with our six-year-old weekly, we are paying him for a few small jobs that he's doing during the week. But in that time where we're paying him, we ask a series of questions that are just helping instill some of those values. And the first question is, where does money come from? And we talk about it together. It comes from God. And then we ask, how do we get it? And through working. And just instilling that sense of not entitlement, but also this is coming from God, but there is the need to to work and that that's work is a gift. And the first thing we do is with money, we ask what is the first thing we do with money? We give it and then that becomes
 a conversation around generosity. And then we save it and what it means to save for the future. And then we spend it on the things that we need and the things that we want. And even from a young age, I mean, like you said, those are not principles that people grow out of their principles that even with our clients,
 you are talking about adult children and they are talking about their estate planning and how to bless their children and not hurt them in that process. That those principles are at the core of God's plan for stewardship. And we talk about it a lot in our family.
 
 So those concepts of God owning it all and him wanting us to be good stewards and sharing it, we talk about a lot and our kids are probably they probably are tired of hearing about it, but we're not trying to put this in our kids memories for a couple of years. This is something that we want them to remember 60 years from now. We want this to be a foundational piece of who they are. And so that's why we hit it so often.
 
 It's great.
 
 I'm curious on the saving piece that you do with your kids, what does that look like?

Yeah.
 
 So basically helping show that delayed gratification is an important skill to cultivate, even from a young age. And so when we give our six year old the dollar or that he used to put in his savings, we are also showing him that the bank or compound interest will reward you for delayed gratification. And so we contribute a little bit in there so that he knows there's an incentive to wait to pull that out of the savings.
  

And so. Right, I mean, again, that transcends age. There's the value of saving that delayed gratification and is an important skill and that by saving we actually are growing the resources that are placed into that category. 

Yeah, we do something similar every night of the week we have a jar for each of our kids and we put one M&M in at the beginning of the week on Monday and then we double it every day. So it's to teach that delayed gratification. So if they leave it there on Monday, they get to on Tuesday in four and eight and then 16. So at the end of the week, we have 16 M&Ms that could use it. So it's been a good learning process for them to understand and get a lot more M&Ms. If I wait on it, that's great.
 
 Yeah. Yeah.
  

And just continuing to the next question about marriage, so in family conversations about money, we have, let's say a potential client comes into our office. And one of the first things that I know we're thinking about is where does this couple stand in relation to how they relate to one another in money? Because we know that money can be a significant place of conflict in marriages. And so couples ask us, how do we get to a place of peace in our marriage when it comes to money? So how would you answer that and how do you apply that in your own marriage?
 
 I would say it is almost always a source of conflict unless you intentionally put time and effort into making it not a source of conflict. When we join into one family, we're bringing all of our baggage. We're bringing the way that we were raised and the way that our spouse was raised. And we're bringing that together.
 And most of the time that's different. We have different cultural norms, different family norms. And money is one of the real times that people butt heads and where that is so evident to see. 

And so the first step is almost similar to with your children. You have to intentionally communicate. So taking the time to do that regularly to first get on the same page with money, how are we as our new nuclear family how are we going to value money? Where are we going to focus on with money and how are we going to interact with each other? And once you do that, you can start to establish some regular routines and rhythms of.

So for example, my wife and I, once a year, we just did this last weekend, we get away for the weekends and we plan out what we want to focus on this year and money is a component of that. Here's how much money we think we're going to have. Here's what's really important for us to accomplish this year, whether it's saving, giving, paying off debt, putting our kids in school. So we if we have a plan
 at the beginning of the year, then so it's less haphazard as things come up
 throughout the rest of the year.
 
 And we see even with our clients who are older, you mentioned at the beginning of your marriage, it's important to start by communicating. Sometimes we see there's conflict in a relationship for people who are maybe at retirement age or older, who have ingrained behaviors that over the course of time they have not talked about money in a long time.
 
 So some of the first ways to answer that question for them is to start talking
 about the learned behaviors that you've developed in the course of your relationship. A great point. And often in a marriage, couples play a specific role in terms of one person maybe is managing the budget, paying a lot of attention and one person isn't, and that can create some conflict. And so even in that, that counseling that we have and helping walk people through that and provide an answer to how do we get on the same page, some of that is just step back a little bit from the day-to-day management of your household.
 
 And let's talk about your goals together, because when you both have an opportunity to dream and get on the same page about where are we headed in this financial conversation, then that can be a unifier more than trying to figure out how are we going to delegate the responsibilities of actually implementing this, which will come in time. But you have to step back every once in a while, and talk about the why.
 
 Yeah, and that's a great point. I think another recommendation would be to bring somebody else into the relationship that you and your spouse have with money. So whether that's a financial advisor or a trusted friends or a mentor, help them have them come in and just understand where both of you are coming from and just having that third party is so helpful a lot of the time.
  

Absolutely.
 All right. Let's move on.
 
 And this is a little bit of a shift, but many times we have people who come into our office who have never signed a will. They haven't even really thought strategically about their estate plan. I mean, many some people have, but there are times people come in and then their first question is, do I even need a will? So how would you answer? Answer that?
 
 It depends on if you care about what happens to your stuff when you die. So a lot of people don't care. 

So I think of Prince. So he's the one that always comes to my mind here, this huge estate. And he didn't have a will and he didn't really care what happened. And so when he died, nothing happened to his estate. Nobody knew what to do with it. And it took years to figure out, to settle out completely. And so if you don't care, you don't need a will. If you do care about your stuff and what happens to it after you pass away, whether it's your money or if you have kids and you want to make sure that they're going to the right guardian that you would that you would pick if you were alive and you definitely need it.
 
 Well. Yes, it sounds like put simply, yes,
 the answer is yes.
  

Yeah. You need a will. That's right.
 
 All right. The next question is about life insurance. So life insurance, it sounds a little bit self-explanatory.
 
 It is.
 
 But in a lot of our conversations, clients have different perspectives on who they've talked to, about what life insurance is, what they need. So let's just start very simple. What is life insurance? Do I need it? And what are some of the things I should be thinking about when I consider life insurance?
 
 Life insurance is a contract that you enter into with a company and you pay them
 a little bit of money every month. And if you die, they pay your estate money. So they pay your family members, your beneficiaries money. And so it's what it sounds like, insurance, in case you pass away. And for people who have other people who are depending on them, so whether they have a family or they have friends who depend on them or somebody they're taking care of, and if your income is lost and those people would be negatively affected, then you would want to have insurance.
 
 Yeah, and we don't sell insurance. 

I think it's important to say that. So we don't have a vested interest in making sure you have insurance. But it is an important topic.
 
 It is important. Because it's such an important part of planning. So yeah, you just want to think of if my income went away and I went away, who would be negatively affected by that and how negatively affected would they be?
 
 Yeah, absolutely.
 
 All right. Next question is at Ron Blue we talk about the importance of not presuming upon the future. And oftentimes a client comes and says, okay, I've heard this phrase, what does that mean?
 
 Yeah, is it basically the concept of nobody knows what's going to happen in the future. A lot of times we act like we do or we think that we do. But underneath,
 nobody knows what's going to happen and only God knows what's going to happen in the future. And so it would be foolish to consider, to think that everything is going to just keep on going as normal and if you're in a good spot
 now that you'll be in a good spot later, because who knows what happened in the world and our country and our city with our business. And so not presuming on the future is taking into mind that there are other things that could happen
 and try and prepare for those things.
 
 It makes sense.
  

Yeah.
  

And even as it relates to something like debt, which is another direction to take that phrase, what would you say to someone as it relates to debt when it comes to not presuming on the future. 

Yeah. So I think a really interesting piece of debt and the conversation around debt that most people have is that if you can take out debt for a very small interest rate, then it's better to instead of paying that debt off, it's better to take that money. You would have paid off the debt with and invest it in the market
 because you're going to get a higher return in the market. But that's not always what happens. So over the long term, mathematically, that's probably what happens. But there's a lot that can go wrong in the interim.
 
 And so I'm just thinking of a story that we heard today from another advisor of one of his clients who works in the lumber industry. And lumber is going crazy right now in and things are looking really good. But he was also in the lumber
 industry back in 2008, 2009 and the advisor gave him the advice of, you know,
 you should probably pay off this debt so that you are, you have more flexibility, you're better, you're in a better position if something happens in the market.
 
 And so he took that advice and he paid off his debt and he was able to withstand a huge downturn in the market 2008 2009 when no one was building homes. And so I think he said 119 Lumber Company in Atlanta went down to 17 and all the other ones went out of business and he was able to grow his business over the next 12 to 13 years, where today it's worth much, much more than what would have been.
 
 The next question is why, when we talk about providing for our family, many people come to us and are thinking about their, naturally they're thinking about their children and they're thinking about leaving a legacy. And a lot of times that's a financial legacy. And we want to shift the conversation around providing for our family to mean more than financial provision.
 
 So maybe talk a little bit about how that question usually goes, how you would talk through that with a client. 

Yeah. So I think when most people in America hear the phrase providing for my family, they're thinking of it from a financial perspective. So I need to work to earn money, to pay for things for my family, to set them up with a better life
 so that they can have a better life than I started with and put them in a better spot. And there's a couple other really important pieces of providing for your family that don't get talked a lot about and those are spiritual capital and relational capital. And both of those can be sacrificed when you only focus on the first one, the financial capital.
 
 And so just to give you an example, let's say in my family, I have three children and I really wanted to provide for them. I wanted to set them ahead in life and put them far above where I started off so I could spend all my time working, pick up a second job and just really, really rake in the cash and really build that financial capital. But if I do that at the expense of time that I spend with my children, or I do that at the expense of discipling that I can do with my children and not take an active role in their discipleship, then their spiritual capital in the relational capital isn't going to grow as much and in the long term they probably be in a worse off situation than if I had just balanced things provided for them financially but also intentionally provided for them spiritually and relationally.
 
 That's great.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Just being able to define legacy beyond financial terms, it's certainly a piece of it, but it's not the only component. And you can build an amazing legacy without leaving any money to your children.
 
 You really can.
 
 And a lot of our clients do, because we're trying to help our clients get to a point
 where they reach a finish line. And for a lot of them, that means taking all of the money they have and putting it into ministries rather than their families.
 
 And so and that's a completely fine option that we encourage for a lot of our clients. And in that situation, you're not going to leave any financial capital, and so you wouldn't be leaving anything if you didn't also build that spiritual and relational capital.
 
 It's a great point.
 
 All right. Moving on to the topic of quarterback. So we say in a lot of our marketing materials that we are a quarterback on behalf of our clients. But we do have clients who come to us and want to know what that means. 

So it's the coordinator. We want to be somebody who coordinates all the different financial people in your life. So your insurance agent, if you have one, your state attorney, your insurance, your investments person, if you have one, really any piece that touches your financial life, we want to be there for you to manage that because if you don't have one person that's talking to everyone else, you get different pieces of information, different pieces of advice, and you end up having to be the person to coordinate and make sense of things. And so for our clients, we do that.
 
 Yeah, it's really just helping our clients keep their financial life on the same page because there's often so many people speaking into that. And how do you consolidate that conversation so that everybody's speaking the same language?
 
 Yeah, it creates more peace for.
 
 Yeah, exactly. That's great.
 
 So diversifying investments right now, there are a lot of conversations in the media and in different places about single stocks that are going up or risky investments that people are making. And we get questions from our clients
 about whether or not they should participate in going all in on some of these opportunities.
 
 Yeah. Or perceived opportunities. Yeah.
 
 So why do we caution our clients some of these opportunities and encourage them to diversify their investments?
  

Yeah. Ecclesiastes 11 says you don't know what misfortune will fall upon the earth and so a lot of this this actually relates to presuming upon the future, which you talked about already. So a lot of a lot of people out there will look at what the market has done or what a specific stock has done over the last 12 months and say, well, it did really well last year I think it's going really well this year. I'm going to put all my money in there to try and take advantage of that
 because it's going to keep on going. And most of the time that doesn't happen. And even if it does happen, that's pretty risky because there's an equal chance of it doing well or doing poorly. And so you want to diversify and buy a whole variety of different things that will do well in different economic seasons so that you aren't - you're not in a position where all your eggs in one basket. And if that one situation doesn't work out the way you thought it would, it's a disaster for you. 

Yeah, it's often can be a result of hindsight bias. 

Yeah exactly. 
 
 Maybe a, you know, a client has come to us and said, I missed out on this last time, but now when I look back, it did really well. But when you look back, it always seems like the answer was more obvious than it was when you were faced with that decision originally. And so there can be this fear of missing out on that again. But that comes back to then presuming upon the future it does. Then making it risky bets that really won't support long term stewardship of your financial plan.
 
 Yeah, very good.
 
 Okay, so you mentioned financial finish lines earlier, and this is a term that we do throw around a lot at Ronald Blue Trust. What is that? What does that mean?
 
 It's building a financial plan that tells you once you get to a certain asset level that you're done. That's all you need to fulfill your goals that you have for yourself to become financially independent and be able to make changes in your life where you don't need income. So whether that is taking a different job,
 working in ministry, taking all additional money that that comes in and giving it away, it just is trying to quantify for somebody exactly how much do you need based on what you want your lifestyle to be.
 
 And it's important to note that that answer is not the same.
 
 Yeah, it's different for everyone. For everybody. 

Yeah.
 
 That ultimately, you know, we have Russ Crosson says that we'll stand before God and we'll all be responsible for how we ourselves stewarded the resources that He gave us. And that won't look the same for everyone, but it is so important to be able to start to answer that question.
 
 It really is.
 
 Which is what it means to come to a financial finish line. So with that financial finish line, there's often a conversation about retirement. We think about retirement a little bit differently than a lot of financial advisors do. So how do we think about the concept of retirement? How do we encourage our clients to think about that?
 
 Yeah, we try and help our clients get to that financial finish line and then that retirement question is, okay, what's next? And we try encouraging all of our clients. They've been gifted with so many good gifts from the Lord and they've been given wisdom that they've accumulated over that time it's taken them to good to get to the point where they have reached a financial finish line. And so we don't want them to reach that finish line and then just stop, stop investing in the world. We want we almost want them to think of it more as re-hirement. 
 
 So if you get to a point where.
 
 You say re-hirement? 

Re-hirement. Yes, yes. If you get to a point where you are done working at the job that you've done or the career that you've worked in for so long, we really encourage our clients to rehire into something else that would be life giving,
 that they can pass on that wisdom and those abilities and use those skills and abilities the Lord has given them.
 
 And it doesn't have to be something that earns a paycheck. I think that's important to know that work is a gift from God and work means doing something productive in an effort to produce human flourishing
 for the glory of God.
 
 That's right.
 
 And that can be investing intentionally in your family. It can be volunteering. It can be a whole number of things.
 
 The goal is just don't make leisure the end goal of your life. We're not just working for a life of leisure at some point. And that's an important thing
 to to realize with our clients. And I would say most of our clients who retire and kind of do what you're saying, they start to live a life of leisure. It sounds really nice to them for about two weeks and then they rehire themselves into something else. So they're back working.

Yeah, that's good.
 
 And there has been a lot more conversations, at least in closer to our generation, about moving that retirement date up as early as possible. And it's called the F.I.R.E. movement, which you can define, but early as we have younger clients who come and talk to us, they want help to retire early. And so we have some thoughts about that. So share some of that.
 
 He has a F.I.R.E.: Financially Independent Retire Early is the movement. And essentially that is getting to that finish line as quickly as possible. And many times that's because people don't want to live that traditional lifestyle. They don't want to do the traditional work path and that's really what we want all of our clients to do is to think through how do I get to where I am now, to where I reach my financial finish line? And so there's nothing wrong with the concept of F.I.R.E. And I think this just goes back to thinking through the different types of capital. And there's tradeoffs that you have to make. So if you want to retire by the time you're 35, those years or those years from 22 to 35 are going to look different for you than they would for somebody else who has a more traditional path. And so you really need to think through the costs and the benefits and think through if it's right for you or not.
 
 Yeah, that makes sense.
 
 Understanding the tradeoffs is at the core of that conversation because if it's only about defining my finish line in terms of material thresholds and I'm considering my legacy or even success in material terms, then it's easier to think that the F.I.R.E. idea is more obvious than it seems.
 
 Absolutely.
 
 Okay. So stewardship.
 
 Yes. 

This is a word that we say a lot, especially just in different Christian circles and in churches and at Ronald Blue Trust. What does that even mean? What does it mean to be a good steward?
 
 So back to the earlier point that we make with our kids. God owns everything
 and everything that we have in our life he's given to us. And I think what's also important to note is that in Deuteronomy it says that he is the one who gives us the ability to create wealth. So not only has he has he given you what you have, but he's also given you the desire to work and to earn money and the ability to do that. And so everything in our lives, there's nothing that we can look at and say, this is because of me. It's all from the Lord. And so that's money. That's also our relationships, our time, our talents, our families and stewardship is balancing all of that really well and making sure that we in all those areas, we are acting
 like we think the Lord wants us to act. And so a lot of times people will think
 stewardship is just not spending money. So not spending money so I can save more, invest more and get a good return because that because God has given me this talent and I need to grow this talent by as much as I can.

But that's taking a narrow view and not the whole life stewardship view. Because you could easily focus all of your time on the financial part and not spending
 any money at the same time. That wouldn't be being a good steward of your relationship with your wife, your relationship with your kids. If they are not able to experience some of the good things that God has in store for them financially,
 because you're so worried about investing that money and not spending it. 

Yes.
 
 So stewardship is being obedient to God with all of the gifts that he has given you. 

Yeah.
 
 I know that the first thing that comes to my mind when I think stewardship, my, my thought is to go to giving. Some people think stewardship and they think saving. Like you said. Some people think, oh, I shouldn't spend, but they don't that's the first thing that comes to your mind. But the definition is much more broad.
 
 It is. It's obedience in of all of the resources that God has given to us. You know, there's in Matthew talks about not worrying about tomorrow for tomorrow, we'll worry about itself. So we in financial planning or helping people plan for the future. But there is what seems to be a balance there of not fearing the future and not worrying about tomorrow, but also planning for the future.
 
 So what is the difference between not worrying about tomorrow and also planning for the future?
  

I think the key difference is thinking of it in the present tense. So today I'm doing
 everything that I can to steward well the assets that God has given me and at the same time, not presuming on the future of this is how it's going to be. And so I need to I need to follow the commands that we see in the Bible, but also not worrying about the future, because there's so many there's an infinite number of futures out there. And if we start worrying about all of them, then we'll go crazy.

I think C.S. Lewis writes about that in The Screwtape Letters. But so we need to be faithful with what we feel God's calling us to do today and have faith in him, and that he has us in his hands and he loves us. He has a plan for us.
 
 That's great.
 
 Yeah.
 
 And I do think that when it comes to planning, when we talk about financial planning, often those relationships are long term relationships that it's not that we're just planning and we'll talk to you one time and that can be helpful to give people information that they need to make a decision today for the future. But when it comes to long term planning clients, those plans are updated as information changes. Then we can then make a new decision, and that is part of the value of that long term planning relationship is being able to walk in partnership with our clients so that we're not just constantly thinking about, should I be scared about later?
 
 But yeah, we're going to walk with you into the future and plan prudently, prayerfully, and full surrender to God with those plans. But to adjust those plans to make new decisions as that information changes.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Life isn't static, and neither should your financial plan be.
 
 That's well-put. Well-put.
 
 All right. Going to generosity.
 
 You know, both of us are involved with a lot of ministries and a lot of our clients are involved with a number of ministries. And many of them are surprised to know that they can give more than just cash to those ministries.
 
 Yeah, and we honestly are on a bit of a just passion project right now
 in trying to educate as many people as possible about the fact that they don't
 have to just give cash to them. So let's use this as our platform right now to just talk to people who are listening, anybody who will be listening. Yes. About some of the opportunities that go beyond cash to bless ministries. 

Yes.
 
 This is one of my favorite things to talk about, because cash, it's really simple to do. It's the one thing that most people know about, but it's one of the more inefficient things that you can give. And so we try and help our clients understand there's so many different types of things you can give. You can give
 your you can give a piece of property. You can give a part of your company, you can give art, you can give oil interest, you can give crypto. There's so much that you can give in, in almost all, everything that I just mentioned can be done in a more tax efficient way than giving cash. Because you don't have to have, even if you've held it for a long time and it's worth a lot more than you than when you bought it, then you can just give that away and you don't have a capital gains tax.
 
 And the reality is the majority of our clients financial lives is often, most often
 not in cash. Yeah, but charities, the majority of the gifts they receive for cash. So if we can help people see that there's opportunity to give non-cash assets to charity, you're not only helping free up generosity from the client or the donor perspective, but you're potentially creating infinite more resources for the ministries to be able to go out and do the things that God is doing through them
 to advance the kingdom around the world.
 
 Yeah.
 
 So don't give cash, get depreciated assets. Give both.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Give more to the ministry, less the government. Everyone likes that.
 
 That's awesome. Well, this has been great and there we've talked a lot about common questions. There are plenty more. We've just sort of selected
 a number of the questions we get from clients and talk through those today. But thanks for talking through that with me, Ryan, and it's great talking to you.
 
 It's been a pleasure.
 
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